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Hi everyone, welcome to the deal.
I'm your host, Jason Kelly, Longsun, my partner Alex Rodriguez. Alex, We're going to talk to my friend Javier Gutierrez, who I guarantee is going to be your friend after this. You guys have a lot of overlap, like a lot of business interest, a lot of ambition. We're going to talk about a new study that he has about Latinos and sports, a new firm that he's created. He's super accomplished. I'm excited for you to get to know him a little bit. And along those lines, I mean, it is
Hispanic Heritage Month. And so I do wonder like as you reflect on your experience as a I mean, consider yourself what a Dominican American like. I mean, what has that experience been like for you? In the sports world.
It's been great.
I Mean I was always taught from early on that if you can help us win, if you show up on time, if you stay late, if you work hard, if you're a good attitude, all is included. And I just remember a two thousand and nine World championship team with the New York Yankees I mean, we looked like the United Nation. Our MVP was heade Ki Matsui from Japan, our closer Marina Rever from Panama, one of our best players, Jeter and Sabbathia, African Americans, Me and Cano and Melki Dominicans.
It was a complete melting pot and we all checked the ego at the door and we won together.
It was really cool.
This is something we're going to talk about with Hoavier. But like, I wonder, how much did you benefit from, like growing up in Miami and you know, sort of having that experience of this was normal course of business in a lot of ways.
Yeah, it's a great point.
Look in Miami, it's a heavy Cuban community and Hispanic community, and in many ways a lot of my white friends they felt like the minority. So it was like us against the world. And it was open doors everywhere you went. You know, it's probably fifty to fifty English and Spanish, so that I think was an advantage. I didn't get to see any of the ugliness that sometimes is out there in the world. Fortunate because I was protected by sports.
I was protected by the Boys and Girls Club, and just fortunate to just have the opportunities, and I would say mentors that I had to help me pull me along.
All right, speaking Boys and Girls Club, Serious.
Fomo, I've got going on, because by the time everyone hears this, you will have been to the most baller event, not just a baller of it, baller of it in my hometown of Atlanta. You're killing me on this. Tell us about what you will have done by the time, folks who are.
Listening to this.
So one after this, you're mister Atlanta atl You and Dominique Wilkins and Chipper Drones.
People talk about the three of us in the same sentence all the time.
But this is one of my favorite meetings that I have, and it happens every couple of years where the Boys and Girls Club is this wonderful organization that millions of kids have benefited from me being like right there front and center. I'm proud to be basically the co chair with Denzel Washes in this one. So I have to give a little speech and talk a little bit about my experiences. But simply said Jason, without the Boys and
Girls Club, I would not be here today. I specifically remember when I was about twelve or thirteen years old, that they came out with the three to five campaign, and what that basically meant is that data told us that most kids would get in trouble at that time because I was the gap between school.
And when the parents got home.
A lot of them, like me, single parents, so that window kept me away from trouble. I will go there every day after school in Miami and I would do my homework first and then we would play till like midnight to whenever my mom can pick me up after work. So I love the Boys and Girls Club. I love to give back and for me, it's been a lifesaver, and I speak for millions of kids out there that are doing great things as adults now well.
And also, I mean you were telling me before we got on the mics, like the people who are going to be there, it's insane. I mean a lot of people are like you in the sense that they owe a lot to the Boys and Girls Club, and they definitely show up for this.
It's one of the most impressive alums rosters you ever want to see of any organization. I mean, from Denzel Washington to Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Kerrie Washington, and many many others from Hollywood to private equity, to the titans of Wall Street and Main Street, and then of course some of the greatest athletes you know, from Shack to everyone in between.
Well, and also you know, convening in the atl which I think is not an accident, you know, given the high profile nature. I mean again flexing my hometown a little bit, but like the high profile nature of that city. How people you know, they want to be there, you know, you and I talk about it all the time, and with friends in sports and entertainment, just gravitating toward there constantly in terms of the business opportunities.
So that's a cool room to be in.
All right.
Coming up is Xavier Gutierra, CEO of Impact ex Sports Group.
All right, welcome back to the deal.
Always a pleasure to have a good friend not just on the show, but actually physically next to me. So what we do is we have the guests introduce themselves, so please tell us who you are, what you do.
Fantastic Jason, Alex, thanks for having me. Javier gutierres I am the chairman and CEO of Impact X Sports, which is a new private investment and advisory firm in the global sports industry. I was previously the president, CEO and alternate governor of the Arizona Coyotes, as the first Latino CEO in the history of the NHL. I have a thirty year career and private equity and I'm sure we'll
get into that. So one of the few former private equity in real estate executives to ever have run a major professional sports team.
Yeah, I mean, Alex, this was one where I texted you and I was like, I think we can get this guy for the show, and you are like, say less done. I mean, and you know so many reasons talk to you. Javier. You and I are good friends. We've known each other for a while. You know that the timing is interesting because it is Hispanic Heritage Month. You just oversaw this really cool report about Latinos and sports.
We're going to talk a little bit about that because you have, you know, such a deep experience, Javier, and a lot of you know, just a lot of insights on the sort of Latinos and sports of it all.
I would love to ask both of you what was that experience.
Like for you?
I mean, your family moved, you know, from Mexico to northern California when you were very little. In short, what's the path for you into this world of private equity in sports.
Well, you know, I feel very blessed, and you've heard me say that on a number of occasions. I am an immigrant to this country. I came from Walder La Jara, Mexico when I was five, and really through the vision of my mom, who was really the one who wanted to have her children have a better education. And it really is a number of those of inflection points that gets you to a place like this. I'm sure Alex
can also relate to that. There are door openers in your life, and it started with my mother opening this door into this country, saying this is where you're going to have a better life. This is where you're going to have a better path to whatever success you want to achieve. As you know, I've had great fortune to go to great schools and that's where the door openers continue.
And I think i've shared this story that you know I interned when I was at Harvard undergrad with the youngest mayor in the US because I thought I wanted to be an elected official.
I thought that's going to be the path.
After I did this internship where I brought in and out Burgers as headquarters back to Baldwin Park, California.
By the way, who was the mayor.
It was Fidel Vargas, who now runs the Hispanic Scholarship Fund.
Okay, actually he was the one who.
Said, no, you need to go to Wall Street. You need to learn about capital. You need to bring investment back into the communities in which we all grew up because of the importance of capital and investment in business to our communities. I knew nothing about socks. I knew nothing about bombs. That wasn't a conversation we had at our kitchen table. It was exactly where I should be. I love deal making. I've had a long career in
real estate, private equity, and corporate private equity banking. As you know, I owned the largest Latino bank in California for a long time.
So this was a world that I truly embraced.
But through it all was this, you know, through line of how do I use my platform and my voice to do for others, to really embrace that opportunity to make a difference, to make an impact.
And one of those impacts that.
I wanted to do was obviously using this powerful voice of sports, right right, And we've talked about that, so I know Alex has an incredible personal history as well. I've followed it for many years and it's very similar, you know, using our voices to really make a difference in so many settings.
And also, Alex, you know a mom opening the door, right, I mean that clearly was the same case for you.
Yeah, yeah, Jason.
As I hear Havier, I'm getting goosebumps because it's such a beautiful story and such a role model for millions and millions of Latinos, both men and women. But for me, this is what makes this country the greatest country in the world is we're very similar, but yet we had different paths to how we got here. I did not go to Harvard or Stanford law. I kind of went
through the school of hard knocks. But I've had incredible mentors from George Steinbernner to Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones, Jerry Reinsdorf, and I've.
Been really blessed that they've mentored me.
And now I think Javier and I sit in a position where's our job and responsibility not just to go into boardroom, but to leave that boardroom open for others to come in behind.
Us, and so Javier like, talk to us.
I mean, let's get into those some of those boardrooms, because you know, you have a career in private equity and banking, but you know, let's talk about your sports career.
Because you work at the NFL as a as a younger man. You're still a young man.
I say that very conscious to word of the exact same age and just slightly older than Alex. But you know, you work in the NFL, but then you go into private equity world, you come back into sports world in a very meaningful way as the CEO of the Coyotes. There's a whole story that's that's a separate story, is a separate story. But like, what's the takeaway? I mean, what's the thing that you take from that? Candidly, I mean turbulent experience of you know, being with the team.
The franchise now.
Resides in Utah, but clearly that puts you on a very distinct path to where you are. Now, what are the one or two things that you're like, Okay, this is what I take from this?
Sure, well, definitely a lot of lessons from the Coyotes experience, and I'll share a couple of things. I think those players are going to do incredibly well. I think Utah is going to be an incredible market. The takeaway I have is first and foremost that sports is a very serious business. It's a very institutional business. And I saw it actually come in the course of me sitting in
this chair. You saw the private equity funds being allowed for the first time to actually be in the sports formally, right.
So clearly this is an.
Institutional asset class and it has incredible growth, incredible opportunity to continue to professionalize, to continue to be an institutional not just with the teams, but something that I'm very interested with the enterprises, all the affiliated businesses that have incredible opportunity for not only outsized financial returns, but capital deployment.
So the first lesson was it is an incredible serious business and it honestly is just getting started as big as these valuations of what have you.
I steal see it as.
Because of the second thing, which is it is truly an impact enterprise when you think about the impact of it on commerce, on culture, on community. I took over in the middle of COVID. I saw what happens when you don't have sports in terms of the driver of economic activity that no longer occurred. You also saw the impact it had on culture, Alex, you would know this. When did most people actually realize that COVID was this thing?
Is when sports stopped. Even the casual person was like, wait, there's no sports, there's no sports center, there's no NBA, NHL, Like what is going on? And I think it just again showed you the cultural influence, but then also the impact it had in bringing the community together. One of the takers I had is I really felt that we accomplished that in terms of embracing the Coyotes as a community asset. Our arena. It was a testing site, it
was a vaccination site, it was a voting booth. We did a blood drive, a food drive, a clothing drive. We did everything to say we are here for you as a community. And we were the first to bring people back into an indoor arena using clear we had you know, social distancing. So it's a serious business. It is an impact enterprise and that's why you know, people have asked me, am I going to go back into
private equity? I said, yeah, through sports, I want to continue the opportunities that you're seeing, not just with teams, but also with these enterprises.
I'm really really interested in what's next for Javier, what's this private equity around sports?
And I do agree that there's so many businesses.
I call it an octopus of opportunities around the moat of sport, where twenty thirty years ago that's all people looked at. But today it is a holding company and there's all types of different silos. Where as an investor, you can deploy capital if you have some patience and you have ten fifteen years, you could be surprised of the type of returns and is not correlated to the markets, which is another part that you know, great investors like.
Sure, well, you know, I sort of tried to take the summer off. It's a little warm in Arizona during the summer, so you try to kind of get out of the of the desert and spend time with my wife, Jerika, my son Hobby, who's a junior in high school and did summer schools, and your alma mater there at Georgetown, and amongst other things. And really what it started happening was these institutional investors started giving me a call and
saying what would you like to do? We want to deploy capital, what's your interest?
And that's new, yeah, not tender, that's new. Yes, right, I mean you've seen and Alex you've seen it as well. Like that is not the story of even five years ago. I don't think was it.
No, it's not.
That's why I'm saying. I sat in this chair. All of a sudden, you know, these conversations started to come to me. And you know this as I'm one of the few private equity real estate guys who also ran a team. Right, there's plenty that have owned a team, but who's rant team? So I understand sort of the ebb and flow and the operational and by the way, the opportunities, Yeah, that exists. And so they started, you know, kind of reaching out. And what I thought about was, listen,
I'd like to partner with you. I'd like to take your capital, but I want to do it in a very different way. I don't want to just be an investor. I want to be a partner and a solutions provider to these leagues and to these teams and to say, where are the opportunities, where are the growth ventures that you honestly probably don't want to deploy capital or also
don't have the operational execution. I had someone from actually the NHL League office come to me says, you know, part of the challenge with you private equity guys, as you come in, you have great ideas, some of them we can do. We don't have the rights, but great ideas. You drop a check and then you leave and we'll say, great, who's going to do any of that? Because we're trying to just keep the train on the tracks. And it's true in my role, ninety percent of my time was
keep the train on the tracks. And yet there's all these strategic opportunities and so sort of the value creation strategy that I'm trying to execute potentially in these partnerships with both the capital guys as well as with the teams in the leagues is to say, let's optimize real estate. I think every sports facility should be an anchor to a health and wellness center, a performance center, entertainment district, all of them. Your main facility, your practice, your training,
even your international facility. So that's number one. Number two market expansion. You should have a footprint internationally. But differently, I often criticize that it's the circus strategy. Go pitch a tent, bring the circus into town. Circus does great, Then the circus leaves and you take the tent. There needs to be an ongoing presence that you can do fan development, business development. You're talking overseas, but also, you know,
I think there needs to be vertical ownership. I think teams shouldn't be thinking about their minor leagues, their youth leagues, their female counterparts, really rolling it up because I also believe in this as the most valuable intellectual property that needs to be monetized. And then finally, Alex Jason has heard this almost ted talk that I have of super serving the fan but equally focused on the fan in waiting.
You know, I have this chart where I showed the three point six million people in Arizona in the DMA, and you know, right at the core was the forty thousand or so people who came to a game historically. Then there's another half a million that followed us and bought a T shirt or what have you. But it's three point six million people. So what am I going to do with three point one million people?
How do I touch them? Yes?
You need to compete, you need to be compelling, you need to be accessible, but you also need to go to the fin and waiting through merchandise and fashion, through content, through experiences and entertainment. That's the conversation I'm having when we're thinking about these enterprises is how do you create this value off of this core asset of the team. Now there's the enterprises, and quite frankly, that's the pe model, right. You buy the core asset and you look at everything around it.
I love where you're going with this.
The question then becomes how big from a scale point of view does your first fund have to be?
Because it's a you have to write meaningful checks.
You know, probably nine figures at some point, yes, maybe smaller, maybe bigger. And then you have to have the duration to be a strategic partners to folks like us. That one of the things that private equity do. One of the big knocks is well, you guys are end but you're out in seven years, right, the duration of a fund.
Talk to me a little bit about scale and duration.
Sure, both very good questions, And I'll twist it a little bit in that my vision isn't really a fun it's an operating company. It's to actually bring the capital from these institutional investors and say I want to invest and run these things. I want to create a portfolio of control positions in the non teams. And that's what's the key. Because people say, well, you want to own five percent of a team. I go, no, I think that's listen that to fine business. I know plenty of
people who are doing that. I'm interested in the enterprises which can be longer term holds. And when you have that conversation, Alex, then the duration starts being more interesting because you can do a lot more with an operating company in terms of your exits, your buy and build, your M and A. The opportunity set increases rather than just here's my investment. How quickly can I get it back at my you know multiples that I'm looking for.
And so that conversation has resonated with the capital folks, right, and it's also quite frankly resonated with the teams and the leagues who are wondering, are you going to be gone too quickly? Or how are you going to exit? I mean, I think there's a lot of questions about that. Even though I do believe in the continuation fund model and other things that I think will mitigate that risk.
What I like about what you're saying is when you go outside of the team co there's less restrictions. Therefore, you have a lot more flexibility with your capital on when to exit, what to do, be more strategic without the leagues, who you know, have a big hand and big voice and everything that the thirty or thirty two teams you know, do. Outside of that, you have a lot more flexibility, which I think plays into your thesis.
Sure you know one of the things.
And Jason left the first time I told him, I said, someone, now you know quite well, ask me what do you think about sports? I say, well, I think one of the problems with sports is people focus too much on the sports. Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I love sports right and we love it and creates the passion and creates the brand. But as a business, that's just the core asset. Then there's everything else, and that's where the opportunities, in my opinion, lie.
That are right there.
They're in waiting, and I do believe institutional capital is the way to go, but also capital and execution, investor and operator because quite frankly, you have the teams focused on the teams. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. But now I think there's plenty of opportunity. And that's as I've had these conversations. There's almost this like, yes, you're right, then I go, great, let's pursue it.
All right, let's talk about Latinos and sports again. You and I have been talking about this for a number of years. Javier, tell us about the genesis of this project.
This is the Latinos in Sports study that you did in partnership with Nielsen, and I'd love to talk through some of the findings because you go through this report and there are just some eye popping and candidly, I think shocking statistics in terms of not just how distinct this market is as consumers, but where you know, where the eyeballs are, where the money's going.
So how did this all come about?
Sure?
Well, you know, when I took over, I was very proud of the fact that I was the first Latino CEO in the history of the NHL.
Took over the.
Job of the Coyotes. You know, there are one.
Hundred and fifty three teams men's teams in the top five leagues. I was the only Latino CEO of one hundred and fifty three teams. Now the Moss family owned the team and run the team, so I was the first non owner, and I just didn't think that was right, just given the importance of this cohort to the teams, to the leagues, to the sports. I just felt like, I need to do something while I'm in this role, because I knew that at some point I would not
be in this role. And so I started, you know, talking to other enterprises of same I think we need a platform to do a couple of things.
I think we need to.
Elevate the importance of Latinos to the global sports industry. I had the great fortune of partnering with Pedro Guerrero, who is the editor of Hispanic Executive magazine, and say, why don't we create an enterprise lis Latinos and sports, and let's start by actually creating some data out there and putting it out there. And so we had an event here in New York City as part of the
US Open. So we wanted to tie it to these large ten pole events, in which we released this report Game Changer, which I invite everybody to download and major major takeaways.
You know.
The first obviously unmatched enthusiasm for Latino fans and a couple of non traditional sports you would think, right, So thirty one percent more likely to be avid WNBA fan. Okay, right, very interesting.
Take note Minnesota links, yeah, absolutely noted.
Notably younger. Obviously this is a very young covert. And I'll say two statistics on that, right, seventy two percent of Latino fans are gen Z or millennial compared to fifty percent of the general market. But also the most common age of this community, right, the largest segment is fourteen, the general population fifty nine. Yes, so that census data. So if you look at the Latino community, the largest sort of segment is aged fourteen. Wow, and the largest
segment of the general population fifteen. So if you're a consumer company like sports, these are right now your targets to not only get them in the fold today, but to actually have them in the fold for many years to come. Digital first one hundred percent. This is an issue that I think really resonates in sports. When you think about Latino fans, they're thirty eight percent more likely
to use TikTok for sports news and consumption. So when we're talking about the methods of reaching this incredibly young cohort that's very digitally savvy, you have to start thinking about these other you know, means.
Alex knows that from the fan who live.
In the household TikTokers who have the last name Rodriguez.
Absolutely, I have seen that.
Actually we all have, I mean, but most importantly we've seen Alex on tip doing the dances.
Yeah, that's is quite embarrassing.
Really what we're here for, aren't we?
Alex absolutely need you need to put a link to that. You got to put a link to that one right there, you know. And then and then sitting in the chair that I did in terms of CEO, you want to know. Okay, so but how do we monetize this? What does this mean for revenue? And this was the statistic that got
me right. Latino fans eleven percent more likely to purchase a brand after experiencing a sponsor message and twenty percent more likely to engage in life betting thirty nine percent more likely than the general population to recommend a sponsor.
So this is actionable.
This isn't just Hey, they're young, they're on social media, they're digital It's like, no, they are fans, they are young, they're are digitally savvy, and they buy.
And so Alex, when you hear this stuff, like is it as surprising to you? What are the things that you react to again? I mean not to hit the nail on the head too many times, Like as a Latino in sports, when you hear these statistics, like what do you think?
Well, I agree, I just didn't think there were this big.
Yeah, these numbers are really big and you have to pay attention to them, whether it's politics or sports. I mean, Latinos are going to have a big influence and a big impact in who's in the White House and how to really grow these enterprises.
If you don't mind me say something like Alex sitting in the ownership's chair. We need more of that, Yeah, we really do. And it's not just for diversity's sake. It's because of perspective. It's because of the cultural impact that you can bring to any organization, but specifically one
that's as culturally influential as a sports franchise. And that's part of this entire conversation is listen, there are incredible individuals out there that certainly should be in sports that have the financial means but also have these different backgrounds and perspectives. And again, for me, it's about decision making.
What is the right decision making tree? And when you have different perspectives, whether they're professional, different, diversity, ethnic, gender, international, I think all that makes for better business decision making. One of the things I wanted to make sure though, and you've heard me say this is this isn't just about Latinos talking to Latinos. We need non Latino decision
makers to be in the room. I was blessed to be the person that could decide certain things in the role that I was with the Coyotes, and I said, I want to start the first diverse coach's internship program. And the way I did it, I was like, I just invited two African American coach well one was Canadian and the other one was from DC. And I asked my French Canadian coach and my Canadian GM, can they just be part of our rookie camp. And ten days
later what happened. We hired one of them full time and the other one we recommended to USA Hockey and now he's the head coach of the first HBCU hockey team, and I remember my coach coming up to me and saying, we would have never known them, we would have never realized how talented coaches they were. And any what you appreciated is like I didn't force him to do it. I just invited them. And that's the thing putting people
in the room and having voices in the room. And so Alice, I want here for me to publicly applaud you for embracing the role being an owner. I'm very, very proud of the fact that you're there, and I know that you using your voice to just say, hey, there's other opportunities that we not only as a team, but as a league and as a sport, should be embracing. So you make us all incredibly proud.
Yeah, thank you, hevery that means a lot coming from you.
We have a very very smart audience that listens to the show, and I want to kind of as you talk, I said, boy, I wish I was fifteen years old listening to you. So I'm going to move forward a
little bit. For some of our listeners who are young or younger than us, and your Latin or you're minority of some sort, what are some of the things that they have to do to kind of follow your path, and even more importantly, what are the things they should avoid from doing to try to stay in play for this possible dream opportunity that you're in and I'm in.
Listen.
I think it's a number of things. I think first and foremost, it really comes by embracing those opportunities that the door openers. You know, sometimes we say, well I don't know that, and I don't want to fail, or I'm embarrassed about it, and it's hard.
Listen.
My son makes fun of me that I go up to people all the time and introduce myself. I said, well, it's not like how that's how I started. I was like everybody else, you're kind of embarrassed, You're like, what do you do? But creating those opportunities, embracing those opportunities, I think is incredibly important. I think also, you know, building relationships, building network I was just in one of your guys's for Bloomberg, your Hispanic Heritage Month events, and
one of the conversation was the importance of networking. It's difficult because you think it's inauthentic to have relationships that maybe aren't your friends and family, they're your acquaintances. I learned that very early on, that it's okay to have acquaintances that you're connecting with and that you touch base with every now and then, and that's what creates opportunity.
And I think, you know, the other thing is embrace your voice, embrace the power that you have and to say I actually do bring something important to the table. I do have a different perspective, whether it's your personal journey, whether it's having come from a very different socioeconomic environment that you can add to the discussion. But also listen, hard work nothing happens overnight.
You know.
I love the saying, you know an overnight sensation that it takes twenty years to establish. I mean, Alex, you didn't just show up in the owner's chair. I saw you at the Milk and Global conference probably about eight years ago, nine years ago, and I saw you working a room of people saying I'd like to learn from you, I'd like to sit with you. That's work, That is, you know every day knowing you're going to build something fantastic.
But it's one brick at a time, as they would say, and so it doesn't happen you don't snap your fingers and show up and you know you're a partner at clear Lake tomorrow.
Right.
But it's all those steps in a journey, and if you recognize all those I think important factors. Yeah, I think that's how you get there.
All right.
So we're gonna wrap this with our lightning round, rapid fire round.
So we're gonna bounce back and forth.
Alex and I, all right, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received on deal making or business trust in people?
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Ol sefeliciana partner at Clearly.
What's the most nervous you've ever been.
Getting up in front of the NHL draft knowing that twenty thousand people were going to boom me? What's your hype song before a big meeting or negotiation started from the bottom?
Now we're here, what's.
Your advice for someone listening who wants a career like yours?
Embrace the door openers?
Awesome, Javier, what a trait this is. I feel like this has been sitting there for a long time, just waiting to happen. I'm so glad you guys know each other at least virtually now.
The only shame about this interview, Jason, is that I could listen to Javier for hours, I know, and we already have to end, but we'll have to continue over dinner sometime maybe in the wintertime in scott totally.
I think Scottsdale round of golf, dinner at the Goudiera's household. I'm just I'm saying I'm willing that into.
Being, putting it out into the unit, out of the universe. All right, thank you, my friend, Thank you guys.
It's a really pleasure.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly. This episode was made by Stacey Wong, Annamasaracus, Lizzie Phillip, and Victor Eveez. Our theme music was made by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Laferrier, Ashley Honig, and Brendan Newnham. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support from Rachel Scaramzzino and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks for listening to the Deal. If you have a minute, please subscribe, rate,
and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us, and remember, if you're a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free on Apple Podcasts. All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel and connect your Bloomberg account.
I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.