Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
I understood the business side because when the athletes come up to me and talk to me, especially tennis players, I go, well, what should I learn? What should I do? I said, learn the business. Learn the business, don't learn just about a player.
Hi, everyone, welcome to the deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly.
Hello, I'm Alex Rodriguez.
All right, So we like to start this show by having the guests introduce themselves.
So please introduce yourself and tell us what you do.
My name is Elana Klaus and I'm the CEO of Billy Jean King Enterprises. I manage all of our initiatives from marketing of Billy Jean Legacy investments and also consulting.
I'm Billy Jean King, and I don't know what to say.
I will say it's one of the most fun things when people who never have to introduce themselves.
No, I have to sometimes. But everything in my life right now is particularly as women's sports, just trying to help all sports, for women to grow and for them to prosper, and all the things I've experienced through tennis as a tennis former tennis player.
So Jason Alex is all no, I'm so fired up.
I'm like coming out.
I can tell cologies for this. You know, crazy suit you go to business stuff.
But I'm fascinated by great partnerships and compliments your set of skills. As an example, Jason and I are great partners between us.
We have six to ninety six home runs.
We graduated from Georgetown.
He's a great writer and reader. I'm not. But in all seriousness, how are you guys complimentary?
I can tell already from meeting you how your set of skills compliment each other.
But maybe talk about it a little bit.
Can I just say something here? Go for I dream it, Elana builds it. I'm a dreamer. I'm always thinking about how it could be, even the future. I'm always telling you, Alana, we got to do this. We go do that, and she quietly and succinctly and does it properly, goes out and makes it happen usually and then I help her if I can. But Elana's a driving force of when you see us achieve something, usually in our company is because of Ilana's leadership and also the other people that
work at the office. So it's fantastic.
Thank you. It's very nice to know. I think Billy obviously has incredible respect for everything that she's fought for, and I think the passion and purpose that Billy has in her life to make things better for others, it's so much easier to help get stuff done, especially if
it's not for you, right. I think everything we try to do is to help make it better for future generations, and so I feel really privileged to be in a position to be able to use the platform and sweat equity that has put in And I was very lucky. I did play professional tennis for eleven years. I met Billy Jean in South Africa in nineteen sixty six. I was ten years old and I remember she had a few balls with me and I decided I was going
to be a professional tennis player. Because of that, I was that younger generation that was in the room when the Women's Tennis Association was formed in nineteen seventy three at Wimbledon. It was my first Wimbledon as a pro. And like I said, I think it's a great privilege to be able to use all of that to really now try to help other women's sports. Because tennis was the leader and still is, but it's just been great to be able to use all this knowledge and experience.
I was able to be on the court and now off the court, and I think that's huge. I'm sure for you Alex in business, you know, you have that experience of you've been on the field, so you know, I think people respect that.
And to that end, I feel really good today because when we created this show, this was one of the conversations we had been looking forward to. And I will tell you not to fanboy, but more to think about the moment that we're all sitting in.
I was telling.
Everyone everyone that I know knows where I am right now talking to the two of you, and I want to talk about this moment, celebrating fifty years of equal prize money and how.
It feels to you.
How it felt to you last year at the fiftieth, Now you know the second half of the century, what's it feeling.
I'm a big believer in history because I think the more you know about history, the more you know about yourself. But most importantly, it helps you shape the future. And that's what I want young people to understand. History is living. It's not dead, it's living. We're making history as we talk today right now. So it's really really important for young people because there are future there are future leaders. So I'm always trying to encourage them to know history.
Because the reason I think I was able to have my dreams is because when I was a child, I did not grow up in tennis. I didn't know what it was. I grew up in pro football, pro baseball. I've come from California, we didn't have a pro baseball team, so I watched Triple A and then Susan Williams in fifth grade asked me to play tennis, and I said, what's tennis? Tis your kidding? Thank God for Susan Williams
asking me to play. She is on my blessing list every morning because if Susan Williams had not asked me to play tennis, I would have never had the life I've had. So every time I see her, I still am such with there I go, thank you, You're on my blessing lit So I went out and I said, well, we're at a country club, so I know I'm not going to play, but Valhalloe and the coach of a softball team we're also playing on said they have free
instruction here every Tuesday. Free instruction means I have free tennis court. I have a coach, Clyde Walker. First time I meet him. At the end of that day, I knew I want to be number one in the world. But I also wanted to change the sport once I read the history. I read the history immediately, and women weren't in it very much. But I already dreamed about changing tennis from it was amateur. The best players were
called amateurs, and I go, that's things. I go, if you're an amateur, it's a hobby, but if you're pro, it means you're really good. Remember I go up around pro sports. I don't think amateur, right, And so I thought, I got to change the sport. I got to change the sport for men and women. Just we've got to be pro. And so finally, in nineteen sixty eight, we got our first prize Bunny at Wimbledon. Finally we're pro. Rod Labor won two thousand pounds and I won seven
hundred and fifty pounds. I go, oh, no, now I'm gonna have to fight for that too, Like you know, we're gonna have to do that. So those are the things that got me crazy. And then I wanted the men and women to be together in the sixties late sixties, and they didn't. They kept rejecting us. Unfortunately, I still
think we should be always together as an association. But anyway, the men when they had and did their own association in seventy two, we did ours in seventy three is what you're talking about, as well as the equal prize money that year. But in nineteen seventy two at the US Open, I made ten thousand to win it and Eli Nestazi made twenty five thousand. And this is really the second year we'd had a tour, the Virginia Slim's Tour, and I had had it. I was exhausted, first of all,
because all I do is play and promote. And I said, you know what, I don't think the women are going to come back next year unless we get equal prize money. This isn't seventy two. And then I realized I haven't talked to the women yet. I'm like, ah, yeah, yay, I should have talked, but I couldn't help. But it was just a feeling I had in the finals with the media. Remember we didn't have social media. This is this is the people who tell our story and mostly men.
I don't think there were any women yet, and I just remember saying we're not coming back, and of course they love that. They're writing line crazy. But then I went and talked to different sponsors that we had relationships because I was part owner of tournaments, so I understood the business. I said, would any of you together make up the difference in equal prize money for next year or one of you? And I went to different people, and Bristol Myers came back to me. He said, we
want to do the whole thing. Holy come only, I said the whole thing. It's only fifty five thousand dollars I think at the time if we stayed the same. So I went to Billy Talbert, the director tournament director, who was also a great player and a great businessman, and I said, we have equal money and he said you have the money? He turned white. I said, yes, where all's that? I said, Bristol Myers wants to do it. Really well. I thought the board of the USTA had
passed it the next year, and they did not. I found out the truth is that Billy Talbert just announced it in nineteen seventy three, after Wimbledon, he announced that the US Open was going to have equal prize money. So I'm very indebted to Billy Talbert. I wish he were still alive, yeah, because I didn't really know the whole story at the.
Time, but that moment and I feel like that is a key learning was show up with the money, found the money.
Well, I know it's about money, but you see, because I was part owner of tournaments with my former husband Larry, that I understood the business side. Because when the athletes come up to me and talk to me, especially tennis players, they go, well, what should I learn? What should I do? I said, learn the business. Learn the business, don't learn just about a Players just want more, more money, better rooms,
better food. They just want more. Okay, I said, how about the person who spent the whole year risking a one week tournament. Do you ever ask him or her or them how they did? How did they do? I always go over to a promoter or whoever owns a business, how are you doing? Because they took the risk for me to play that week. Every single week someone's taking a risk. It's business and it's money. So I think
it's really important the players understand business. And I also want players to go into the business after they're finished playing with their careers, so I'm always trying to encourage them to learn the business and relationships are everything. They are everything.
I'm imagining a young Alex Rodriguez, you know, going in your cleats to go see owners. Yeah, yeah, and you learned that lesson.
I sure did.
And Magic Johnson, your partner, he told me, Alex, why you're playing, learn the business, build relationships because once you're done, they're not going to answer your emails or your calls as much.
So build it now.
And it was just the.
Most incredible advice he's crating. I started my business probably in my fifth year. I played for almost twenty five years, so once I retired, I can hit the ground running. I can really turn on the turbo charge. And again that's part of putting the work in and thinking really long term. I think too many athletes today think what's the transaction?
What do I get?
What room do I get? How's my food? Instead of thinking how do I build a partnership that can last?
You know exactly right.
I think the greatest teacher of business is playing sports, and it's professional sports, even better, but like getting your butt knocked out, like did the agony of defeat, it brings you to tears. I know baseball does, I don't know if tennis does.
It does it's all the same, Beliemits I played all the.
Sports literally in tears, thinking, Jason, am I ever going to hit this fricking ball again? And you're getting Buddha Yankee Stadium and you're just like I am a bum and to be able to come back every single day you have to do it in business. But I'm interested what lessons or attributes most helped you and transferred from athlete to business for both of you.
Alana, Well, I mean I think thing about sports, or competitive sports or all sports. Really you win or you lose, you get immediate feedback. I wasn't as good as Billy Jan. Yes I was a pro, and yes I was highly ranked and one on US Open and a couple of titles, but losing was tough, and you lose a lot more than you went in tennis. And it's also a little different when you're most individual sport right. We do have doubles and we have other team events, but a lot
of times you're alone. You won or you lost. And that's actually one of the reasons I got out of playing pro tennis, because I had a hard time separating how I did on the court versus the rest of my life. But I also because of Billy, and she
was a mentor of mine. I did learn the business and I knew that I loved the sport, and so for me, actually transitioning to the business was so much better because I could have a goal and I could work towards it, and of course you want to win, and I love to get to the end result, but it was a process and it wasn't also as public as being a professional athlete was. And that's why I actually liked doubles more than singles, because I felt like I was out there with a teammate.
But also, you're a born salesperson. Her dad was great in sales ord I never got a salary, only got commissioned. He was always the number one salesperson in South Africa. And Elana it's in her blood. I'm telling you, she knows how to sell. She knows how to finish, like she gets the yes and then you get the first jack. That's what Alana does so well.
I love that.
I'm reading Jason's book who he wrote about a decade ago about the Titans of private equat right KKR, Carlile Blackstone and so on and so forth. What I find fascinating business Wah Street Titans versus sports is the Titans speak every day, four times a day sometimes, and they can be competitors. Right, Blackstone does a deal with Carlile K. Carter is a deal with you know, TPG. Athletes, we don't talk to each other, and there's not enough collaboration
going on. And I hope and maybe he's gotten a little bit better, Billy, but I hope that that's something in the future that athletes can come together for the greater good, both socially and in business. I think together they're better obviously right here, obviously right now.
Thoughts you had to build consensus.
I'm exhausted thinking about it. What do you remember about the seventies, I go, I was exhausted. I averaged four hours of sleep at night and I'm playing, by the way, oh yeah, oh playing tennis.
Yes, yeah, well, I think it's again. In our day, we also didn't earn as much money, so you did not have these incredible support teams that they have now right, So I mean we would warm each other up, even if they might be your opponent. And I remember Billy would help chriserve it, learn how to serve or volley and we you know, that's what we did, right. We went out and competed, but we shared a car to drive to the next tournament, or sometimes you shared a
room with your opponent. I think it's become such big business now that the athletes are very isolated, they have a team around them. You know, that team is driving their business. And I think also the whole media landscapes changed. I mean, for Billy, we were encourage the media where our friends they told our story with at them, nobody would know who we were. Nowadays, you know, everyone can
tell their own story. But I always listen to Billy saying, you know what, you need other people telling your stories, not only yourself. But it was just different. There's so much more money in the game, and in some ways that's fantastic. I mean, Billy's like they living what she dreamed right for them. So but it's very different.
And I want to talk about that specifically because if you look around today, you know we had someone just say to us yesterday it's not a moment, it's a movement. What's happening right now. It's been a movement for you for they're saying it now.
Which makes me happy. I usedn't say it's a movie.
Yes, of course, what are you observing today that is different or feels different? You have been here, You both have been here all along the way for these catalytic moments. Is there something different happening now?
Billy?
Definitely. I mean we're starting to get the ratings. We used to have about four percent of the media content and people watching us. Then we went up to five percent. This is only like four years ago. We're up to fifteen percent now.
Wow.
And media content's where the money is. This is always it always goes back to money. Okay, it's business and one thing I know a lot when you were talking, I was thinking also, the agents have changed the landscape a lot, and they've made it better in some ways, and in a lot of ways they've made it a lot worse. I think because they don't want their players talking to anyone. It's all about let me take care of it. The players don't talk to each other enough.
They need to talk to each other about going into business later or even while they're playing, if they can, I want them to be part of this because they understand it. And we as players, we didn't have coaches. That's why we helped each other. We didn't have any money. The money they spent is fantastic. No wonder they can play longer, No wonder they play better longer. I mean, look at the difference from when we were playing and then what the players get now, and how much money
the travel, how much better it is. That's just in our little tiny world of tennis. But if you look at baseball, look at all the money they make now. My brother played in the seventies, Randy Moffatt with the San Francisco Giants, which is so odd. We were the Dodgers fans, and he got drafted first round by the by the Giant and he played seven years there. He's a relief pitcher. He said he's pretty average, and I thought, well, average is fine for the MLB. I played twelve years,
so you have to be decent good slider. But yeah, I think the mostly maybe was one hundred and twenty five thousand, probably, So people have to unders stand that. In seventy one, when we had our first tour, first year of the tour, I told Larry, I said, I'm going to try to make one hundred thousand, so people will watch the tour, they'll start getting interested. And it's our job to promote the other players. So when I talk,
I'm not talking about Billy Gene. I'm talking about the other players and the tour and the money and what we're trying to do as promoting all the time. So I think it helped for me to win money. And I won over one hundred thousand in October of seventy one, so I was the first woman athlete to make over one hundred and then Chris Everett was the first one to make over a million, So it's like quickly.
But I think one of the things that you asked is, you know what's really changed, and I think for women's sports if you go beyond tennis, because I think tennis and golf, these individual sports have always had decent money and prize money and sponsorship the individual sports. But the big thing that I think has changed is that the billionaires are investing in women's sports, and that is huge.
I think if you look at you know, who's buying NWSL teams WNBA teams, who's investing in the Billy Jenkin Cup. Mark Walter, who's the Dodgers owner. He helped us start a Women's Professional Hockey League TWG. His company invested. So it's people men and women. I mean you have Michelle Kang, who is an investor in the Washington NWSL team. Chila Johnson's been doing women's sports forever in DC. You have
Clara Wusai, who owns the New York Liberty. So I think people with real wealth and experience and business knowledge are investing, and that makes a huge difference. I think prior to that, you would get people who loved women's sports, maybe they had a daughter who was trying to be a pro, or maybe they just cared they didn't get to live the dreams, but they didn't have the big money. Now the big money is looking at women's sports as an investment, not as a charity. And that's huge because
you have a runway to be able to build. I mean the PWHL, which is the hockey league that started this January. I mean, we have an eight year business plan, so you can invest and you're not under that pressure to make decisions that aren't smart. Decisions because it does take time to build, and women's sports is so far
behind men's sports, and so we need time. And if you have investment to help you build, I think it's it's unbelievably exciting and you know, for Billy to be alive to see this, I mean it's great and people coming to us and asking us to share our knowledge because I mean, she really did help build it, and she is the goat and so but it's really this investment that you know, people are now believe that women's sports is a good investment and that's what's changed a lot.
Yeah, so let's talk about the hockey for a minute, because you touched on a couple different things, both the people and the money, and I think specifically the sustained investment, right, because I believe.
You've got to be sustained. If it's not sustained, it's not going to make it.
And that's what's happened in women's soccer over the twenty years.
It was not sustained.
Correct, it is happening in hockey. How did that happen?
Tell it?
Like, take us inside that deal, because there were some phone calls and some it's.
Funny we meet a lot of the athletes actually through the Women's Sports Foundation. At our call, they'll come to the dinner and they'll start talking to us. So we met Kennell Coin and others, and Kendall called us. We happened to be in a Lakers game, and Ilana took the call and went into the hallway and Kendall Coyn, who was the captain of the women's USA team, you know, for the Olympics and World Championships, she said, can I talk to you? So she came to our apartment year
in New York. He said, would you guys help us? What do you want? She says, well, we want a proper league, not like the leagues that are being played now. We won't play in those anymore because they're not pro and we need help. So Illana and I met with them in Chicago and Ilana goes, all right, you have to talk to him. See I do the talking. She doesn't work, so anyway, she says, talk to him. So the first question I asked the women, I said, do
you have an association or a union? And they were blank and they said no. Well, I said, that's the first thing you have to do. And because Canada and US are always at it at each other because in Canada, ice hockey is a religion, but they're always against each other a lot, the Canadians and the Americans. I said, you guys have to be together. So if you're willing to do that and put it out there, we'll do
everything we can to help you. And Illana spent an enormous amount of time with helping them get an association. And then we said, well who should run this? You have to have an executive director of somebody. Oh, every single one was a Jena Heffer bull like that. She's Canadian, she's a Hall of Famer, very good in business, which is the difference. And so she's done a great job
with them. But Ilana helped that day in and day out process of becoming an association, and now they've become a union because a collecting bargaining agreement.
It was a five year journey from the time you know, Kendall called us, and I mean, to be honest, we used a little bit of the playbook of forming the Women's Tennis Association right, a little bit different, but history does tend to repeat itself. So first thing, one voice, which was great because all the top players were willing to come together. And we learned that from tennis, right when there were two separateurs and we got them all together.
Because you want all the best players playing in one place. We spend an inordinate amount of time High Deloitte to do some just some modeling and research what it would cost and what I think is really interesting about this. In the beginning, it was very much player driven. You know, the players were involved and they came up with what they thought would be a league that they wanted to play in that was professional, right, not earning seven thousand dollars for a season or sleeping on a couch or
flying into a city. Minnesota. Kendall actually played for Minnesota, and you know they'd fly in on a Friday, play a couple of games, and then fly home to Chicago because they had a job. So we really tried first an association. Then they organized. They were amazing. They played for no money for like three years, just organized play. Played for Dream Gap Yeah, Dream Beap Tour. We were building a model that we could take to investors. We
went to NHL teams. We went to Gary Batman a couple times because we thought, you know, the NHL has the infrastructure, and wouldn't it be great just to put a w W NHL And some of the teams were interested, and I have to say Gary always met with us, He always provided us with these people to talk to, but it really wasn't something that they were willing to undertake. And you know, I think you don't just get in this and get out right. You want the sustained investment.
So while they were helpful, they weren't willing to make a commitment to run the league. Billy and I had gotten to know Mark and kimber Walter through our investment in the Dodgers, and so we kept talking to him about you know, we think this is a great opportunity. There's a pretty clear landscape. You know, there isn't a truly professional league. There were other leagues, and you know, he kept challenging us. You know, doesn't work with two leagues.
You know, somehow you've got to get one league.
Is there a.
Collective bargaining agreement where like no, because they're own have a union. So you know, it really was We hired a lot of the players to go out and do promotional work to help promote and they formed a union and then we were able to negotiate a CBA, so it really was a process. But the league, it's single entity ownership, really all funded by Mark and kimber Walter.
But I think that's a great model to get started because you want parody across the league, and you don't want one team who has huge investment and then the other team doesn't. And we had run World Team Tennis, a professional tennis league for almost forty years, and that was the old model. Right, you sell franchises, but the difference in ownership investment is not good in the beginning.
So we have this single entity ownership model. We were incredibly fortunate Mark Walter our Stan Kasten, who's the president of the Dodgers, to job Royce Cohen who works with the Dodgers and actually came from MLB. He was amazing on the modeling, and you know, we've had an opportunity to build this. But you can do everything right and you're never sure people are going to come. People came it it's crazy. We sell twenty people in Montreal. Tickets sold out I think in a few hours, So there's
this need. But because we have this long term investment, we can build it in a way that's sustainable. We put every game on YouTube TV, so anyone in the world who wanted to follow women's hockey could see it. But that costs money. So you know, I think it's just so exciting to be part of something that has the investment that's needed.
You give us an idea of how much money. I mean, because look, just stays in it for years, you're going to be a lost leader. Probably for the first three or four years in the marble will show that you've been to positive.
Is it tens of millions?
Yes, yes, yeah, ten millions, keep going it is And look, I think you know, people say, well, how long are you in it? For as long as it takes, that's the answer, you know. I mean, I just think the plan is to build it and make it an incredibly valuable asset, and already people are interested in by they're interested by our really. Yeah, you know, it's been so great because you know, girls have never been able to
have the dream right. Usually in hockey, the girls and boys play together and they go to the ice rink together, and then when the girl turns eleven or twelve, she's told, Okay, now you have to go play, you know, be an ice skater. You can't play professional hockey or there's no programs here. So now they can have the dream. And I mean everyone should have the dream, right.
They never have had the dream before. Now they can have it. Now they can have it. If you can see it, you can be it. So we know we've done something good and right thanks to Mark and Camber. Because you're going to have all these dreams. But if you don't have the money, it doesn't matter exactly.
Billy always says, follow the money and have to have right. I mean, we were very lucky to meet Mark and Kimber in Chicago actually at a charity fundraise and a fundraiser, and we ended up going to dinner a couple of days later and Mark said to Billy, Jess and I own the Sparks, the La Sparks, and would love to get you and Elana involved. And Billy without missing a beat, I mean, I almost fell off the chair. It's like, why not the Dodges?
Why not?
Exactly?
And she was right, and Mark was like, and Mark was like why not?
He said why not?
But it was so interesting that you know, the first thing that the discussion started was with the Sparks and so actually getting involved with the Dodgers and being at the big boy table as we call it, and you know, not just having a seat at the table, but Billy talks about how important it is to have a voice and to be able to learn. And yes, we got to spend more time with Magic and with the other Dodgers' owners. And I think, you know, you just learn and you grow from that.
And so I want to dig a little deeper in something you said, which is being at that table, you know, essentially saying why not the Dodgers.
That's the first time I had the guts to do that, because the girls are taught not to ask for what we want and need. And that thing flashed through my head. I go, okay, I'm a woman. Here we go. I'm a girl and I'm old. Now it doesn't matter. It's the same brain, you know, You're like, don't ask her
what you want? And why not the Dodgers. I grew up with the Dodgers, right, you know, and my brother played professional baseball and so anyway, and Mark, I could not believe when Mark said why not, Oh my gosh, I'm glad I asked her what I wanted and need it. I wanted it, I know, but I'm so chicken. Usually just do that.
I don't think anyone has ever referred.
To a chicken. Sometimes I am Actually I don't like confrontation.
Billy is quite shy, and you know, she's okay fighting for others, but for herself, so it is interesting. So usually I ask on her behalf.
Milana's got much more guts to ass than I do.
I'm a whimp.
So I want to.
Take you guys back a little bit because you talked about the Dodgers, and when you look at the Dodgers, if you zoom out, you can arguably say you have the best ownership group and management team. I mean you go from Mark Walters to Todd Bowley, Stancaster, a Lone
rose in Andrew Friedman running baseball. Is there one or two nuggets that you can share with us that you've learned that you can take to your other sports teams, because and by the way, I'm going to make a bold prediction, as you think this will be the first team in professional sports around the world that will cross the one billion revenue mark for a year.
That's just my guess. I have no information what about the Yankees.
I think they'll get there before the Yankees. But I may be wrong. Be the social hills in the expansion.
Of Japan and Asia, Yes, because I really do think.
I think we just went over like the three million mark in ticket sales, you know, first season. I think three or four teams will we'll do that. I mean it's a good question.
I think why are they so successful?
Yeah, I think that brilliant talk is brilliant. How he thinks things through, he just keeps pounding on. He's brilliant.
And they're also willing to invest, yes, for a long term. They are not short term thinkers. And also I think just the higher management team has so much experience from other things. You know, Stan Casting, I think he did NHL team, he did the Braves, I think he did basketball. So I mean they just the wisdom that they have in the knowledge base. And again I think they're not afraid to invest.
I think they're older. It helps they've been through more. You know, most everyone that you just mentioned are not twenty years old or thirty years old or even forty years old. They're probably in their fifties and sixties. So I think they've had a lot of experience, and all of them have had experience, not just one of them, right, you know, unless Alana talked about Stan who did a great job with the p WHL. I mean they went out and hired two hundred people in a week and a half.
I mean, I'm like, what was something done?
Once they make up their mind, boom, it's done, they take a lot of time thinking about it. They're not.
Well, that's that's that's what I love.
You really learnally got to go through every little thing long term, short term, what's gonna happen? What if nobody shows up? Then you gotta get Arenas That was a nightmare.
I mean yeah, but I think it's a little bit like Billy always thinks about everything that could go wrong right ahead of time. So by the time she went on the court, she was totally calm because she had gone through every all the good and all the bad. And I think that's how you win. And I think it's the same thing with anything we've done with the Dodgers, or with Mark investing in hockey or investing in tennis. Is he really challenges us to think about everything so
that nothing is a surprise. So in your mind, you kind of have gone through the steps, but he's brilliant. I've never actually met someone who has challenged me as much and been right.
And maybe that does inform an Angel City type decision.
Being at the.
Table with the Dodge owners, like what have you taken away that you've then applied and sort of honed your playbook in?
I think just asked, really, if you really want to do something, ask us. We had to ask Angel City. They did not ask us.
Really.
Yeah, we called Julie exactly.
We called Julia and I mean.
Who's one of the co founders.
Yeah, So, I mean obviously the reason that I think it came to my attention was Serena's husband, Alexa so Henny and had invested and he talked about making an investment for Serena's little daughter at the Olympia, and so we were like, wow, that's weird. You know, we know Julie Faddy and so I asked, hey, Julie, what's up? You know, why didn't you call us? I mean we you know, it's we're kind.
Of into women's for it.
And she's like, oh my god, I really didn't think about it. She was called Julie. I called Julium, and she said, you know, we're almost done. But you know, of course we love.
Wasn't that we don't invest that much? But they were full.
Yeah, we've invested.
We would have invested a lot more. Well, and we know Bob and Willow, Bob Ager and will Obey. Right, So will Obey is the dean also at Annenberg School. Exiss, see, we should just end yes. Of course if you don't know Bob Agery, he's ahead of Disney.
Hello.
Yeah, And so what's fascinating about that we talk? I mean, this is the deal. We talk about money. They come in at two hundred and fifty million dollar valuation. The expansion fee was somewhere between two and three million dollars.
That was the Financial City.
You guys roll You just keep going with Angel City presumably, But what does that say to you each This is the largest price, largest valuation for any women's team ever in the world. How significant is that or is it just one data?
No?
Significant, because every time it goes up, everybody knows this and everything else starts to go up. People start to believe. Because when people believe, things happen.
Well in women's sports. I think it started with the I think the San Diego Waves sold for like one hundred and twenty million, and then you know, you get a couple of years later Angel City, and now you look at what the expansion teams are going for in WNBA, you know, over one hundred million. So it's definitely this wave of people believing. But I think the Angel City deal is just a proof point. But you know, they took three years to get started. That wasn't done of the plan for three.
Years before they started Angel City.
Right, and that was tough for them because they did not have it was a huge group of investors. It wasn't just one, and I think we've been very fortunate with the hockey to find, you know, one person who's willing, who has the wealth and willing to commit to building it.
Because one of the things that Angel City did, I believe and keep me honest here is they were ambitious about going and finding new sponsors, new money to back the team, and they were able to create revenue that wasn't just reliant on ticket sales, but they were going into the community and getting.
But they also give the community a percentage exactly. I don't know.
I think that ten percent of a re sponsorship deal, gets reinvested in.
Them, and then they're going to give the players a certain percentage.
You know.
Just recently, the NWSL have changed the structure where you know, there's no draft, there's not going to be a draft.
They're just going to get it's more.
Like your free agency. So it's really interesting and I think they realized that there's so much competition in Europe and the UK with women's football, women's soccer, and so, you know, I think that was a brilliant.
Move because we might lose some of our players, right we need the best players in the world here.
Because historically the best players have played here, but now they go to England and the other.
World correct because all of the Premier League have men's and women's teams on the Premier soccer So that was a significant move from the NWSL.
So what happens with the business of tennis. There are all these rumors that the ATP, the WTA, you're going to come together.
Please please when I hear that room where I go, please please.
I don't know you want it to happen.
I've always want us to be together. I've always thought we're more powerful. It's not just what we do on the court, it's what we can do off the court to make the world a better place.
Right, and also.
Where men and women and all a lot of genders now are in this world together and we have to be together and help each other. We should be four each other. I don't care what gender you are.
It's one sport. You play on the same size court. You know, it's sold as a joint asset at the big events, right, the media rights, so, but it is it's a real challenge. I mean, people have tried for years. The thing with tennis, sometimes we get in our own way. There's seven organizations, right, you have the four brands, you have the ATP, the WTA, you have the International Tennis Federation, and everyone kind of has their own agenda. There's no commissioner per se.
They all want a commission And I said, really, we have seven organizations.
And also the calendar goes from January through November. So it is a challenge, but it's a great product. When the men and women play together, those tournaments are have a much higher evaluation. So I think there'll be more and more collaboration.
And it feels like the investment case for CVC, which obviously is a big shareholder in the WAA. Now is pushing for that? I mean that is there?
No?
Yes, right, no, no, of course, no question because I think the properties together are well.
Yeah, and you have an investment company. I always tell all the players, you guys, they have to get their investment that right, They're not going to do this just for fun. They go, huh. I'm like, that's why why I'm to understand the business so they can help.
But it's great that we have these type of companies investing that you have billionaires investing in buying some of the tournaments, and we want them to be successful so that they don't, you know, kind of fold up their tent and leave. So it is important that Tennis gets its act together and that we start working together. But I really believe that there's a big push towards working together because the assets are much more valuable together.
All right, So we're going to do a rapid fire round and we're going to bounce back and forth. But we want you each to answer the questions.
If we I can a lot of probably can.
Don't count on last question.
You each answer it, and then you'll ask me, yes, okay, I'm more explaining it for myself so that I remember, what's one word to describe your deal making style?
One word?
What's the word for when we worry about what they get as well as what we get? I think partnership, Yeah, partnership.
Would be good.
What about you?
I think? I mean I just kind of walked through that, didn't I know. I'm big on on teamwork, working together. Yeah, everyone's got to win or else it's not good.
Okay.
So what's more important in stincts that gut or actual data to make a decision?
I do use both both, I have to.
I'm mostly gut.
What's the hardest part of making a deal? The beginning, the middle or getting it closed?
That's easy?
Close that is hard. Closing is difficult. But for me, if I can get in the door, usually I'm going to find a way to close. So it's really getting in the door and being able to tell your story and build that relationship, you know, build a connection.
Yeah.
All right, So who's your dream deal making partner? One person you can make a deal with as your partner? Who would that be?
I think we already have it with Mark Mark Walter.
I think so look what he's done for us already, all.
Right, we'll make it fun. Give me another name.
Besides Mark, I think beyond Mark Walter, I would think of the Clara, who's the Sheila Johnson or the Michelle Kansa.
What's the best deal you've ever made?
Billy, best deal marrying alone?
That one's fade off, Yeah, no, it's just it's fright.
All right.
So what's the best piece of advice you've received on deal making?
I think Warren Buffet's always been a great guy. I think he always talked about friendship, relationships and all that, and then he just reinforced the relationships for everything. He really did enforce that. I think you've talked him a lot.
I would say that both people feel like they've won.
What's the worst advice you've ever been given?
Ending a deal on a very negative way? And you know, walking out or banging the door? Burning a bridge, yes, burning a bridge exactly.
Yeah, we're not big on burning bridges. What's the point?
All right?
So what's your hype song before a big meeting or big negotiation?
For me, it would probably be simply the best Tina tan Okay and I have it too, actually sorry, and Frank Sinatra my way.
Okay, that's good.
I love Rutha Franklin respect, I love all. I love it.
If you can watch one sport for the rest of your life, but just one. What sport is it?
Oh my god, you're killing me after you have this discussion? Are you kidding?
I think for me it has to be tennis, because tennis gave me everything. Okay, with that tennis, I wouldn't be here today. Yeah, I probably agree, But I love basketball too. I grow in basketball.
All right.
This is an interesting one because of all the teams that you guys are involved in, which team do you want to see win a championship more than anything?
I think has to be Dodges.
Oh god, I'd like to see the Sparks doing better. We'ren't the second largest market in the country, right, we should have great teams.
One fun fact about yourself that your colleagues will be surprised to hear about.
We know a lot about you, Billy.
I think Ilana probably probably. I don't I play. I like to play by the rules. Drives are crazy, you know. I grew up in a family. My dad was a police officer and a firefighter. Really loved his basketball. He's good. But we played by the boy rules were really important, and everyone thinks I don't play by the rules, but I do. I'm like misrule, like don't turn there, we shouldn't turn there. It's not not terrible and a lot of goes. Nobody would believe what's wrong on here.
I do all my best thinking when I'm at running jogging. I think that changed my life because I could go to the distance didn't matter how long. It was all for me, and so I still look at running as something that I can do that's totally for me.
Well, I agree with that in part because I went for a run this morning, mostly because I was so nervous about this interview and I just needed to like get in the headspace, take the edge off, just to take the edge off.
And do it outside.
Oh yeah, I went running along the Hudson River by the house and it was gorgeous and US is beautiful. Maybe I did better owing to that, but this was a tree. So thank you both. Thanks.
It's great to be on your show and to see both of you and both of you so successful. And of course Solana loves to see Alex on Shark Tank.
She loves it's wonderful. I mean, we get Billy especially gets us to do a lot of things, and we really wanted to do this.
We're really pleased for neighbors. It's great. We will you know what. A lot of people don't realize we're in business though. It's amazing. So we love being on the show because we love business. I've been in business since nineteen sixty eight. No one knows it that they got played Dennis.
It's amazing how many athletes and people in sports. We love talking about business. I mean, we don't ask about baseball technique, but we talk about the business. Right meteorized there, how's it going? And how is all connected?
Now?
Well, thank you so much?
Thanks, I went over here.
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals. The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. Our producers are Anna Maazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. Our managing editor is David E. Ravella. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly, Brendan Francis, Noonham, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Kyle Kramer, Andrew Barden,
Kelly Laferrier, and Ashley Hoenigg. Sage Bauman is our head of podcasts, additional support from Rachel Scaramzino and Elena So Los Angeles. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography. Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from Jacqueline Kessler. Casting by Julia Manns. Our associate producer is Natasha Abelard, Camera operation by Jesse Ridner, Tsine Rabbi and Summa Hussain. Our gaffer is Julia Geweski, and our grip is Megan Miller.
Our production assistant is Gabriella Demataes. Katia Vanoy is our video editor. Listen to the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune into The Video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.