Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the Deal.
I'm your host, Jason Kelly, longside my partner Alex Rodriguez. It's a by coastal edition. I'm in New York. You are in Los Angeles. On business, the business of the playoffs. All right, take me courtside, bro, Like, what is it like the Tea Wolves playing the mighty Los Angeles Lakers. We're talking on Tuesday afternoon, hours away from Game two. You took Game one in spectacular fashion. I'm dying to know what it's like.
First of all, Crypto was lit for Game one. I mean everyone and their mother was there, everybody, and it was so much fun. But when you play the Lakers, like everything has to go through lay. Look, they've earned this place in Mount Rushmore. They have eighteen world titles. You think about the history of magic, Johnson, Kareem Abdujabbar, Doctor Boss Now, Genie Buss. I mean, they're as good as it gets. So it was fun to be there.
It sets up a great Game two for us. But I can't say enough about what an electric atmosphere it was for Game one.
I mean, is it fair to say that playing a playoff NBA game is similar to say, playing a playoff baseball game in Yankee Stadium.
Yeah, I mean that's actually a great comp I would say Old Yankee Stadium even more, Yeah, because it was such a crazy atmosphere. But the difference is, Jason, on that side, I'm used to wearing pinstripes, so it was very comforting. This said as an opponent is much different. But the fans are awesome. I mean, they really are smart basketball fans. And look, they have an edge, right, and they've earned that edge, and in order to beat them, you have to really beat them, all right.
So I do have one more question sort of on that point for you, And I'd like to ask this question to lots of different owners, especially owners who have been successful in business or like you have in athletics. What's it like going and sitting on the sideline instead of being on the court or on the field, Like, it's got to be even more heightened now because you must be jumping out of your skin.
Definitely, it's definitely more heightened now. I would say this two things, Jason. I think I don't think people the generic fan or non fan realize how incredibly big athletic talented.
These guys are supreme.
And it doesn't matter who the ten players are on the court at any given time, they're all phenomenal.
So that's one thought as a fan. It's helpless.
I mean, it's like watching, you know, five of my kids out there, and you just want them to do so well because.
I love love our players.
And look, I will say this, I've been a player for two and a half decades and I'm always going to think player first versus governor. And it's really neat to see players play in this type of stage and there's so much at risk, but it really puts their talents on the biggest stage, which is awesome.
I will say this as an NBA fan. The thing that I love about the playoffs is it's all on the line, and also to your point, like the intimacy of an NBA game, especially when it's all on the line like that. I mean, it's just like you literally see the sweat. I mean, it's just it's just phenomenal.
All right.
So I'm doing some exciting stuff back here in New York. I'm headed down to see some of our old friends. In fact, some champions. Sue Bird among them at the Business of Women's Sports Conference. This is something put on by Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. This is an annual event. I'm doing a panel all about the return on investment in women's sports. So I'm excited excited to do that. You know, Sue and Meghan Rapino are going to do a live taping of their podcast A Touch More with
Chelsea Clinton. So looking forward to to hearing that Azy Fudd, who is the most outstanding player in the NCAA Women's Tournament. I was on stage earlier, so excited to catch up with all those folks. The other big thing on the sports agenda this week is the NFL Draft. I know we're focused on the NBA playoffs, but what is happening in football? This has become a massive, massive, annual event and it's inescapable, right.
I hear people at Crypto talking about the draft and who are the Rams going to draft? And you know, who are the Raiders going to draft, and it's pretty phenomenal. I mean, I remember back in the day it was just almost a non event. But again give credit to Roger Goodell and his executive team. The way they think about entertainment. It is clear that for the NFL, football is just the mote. There are an entertainment business just
like UFC, just like WWE and everything in between. Entertainment first, football second, and no one does it better than the NFL.
Yeah, and we're going to dig into that in a big way coming up in just a few minutes with Christine Dorflir, the CFO of the NFL. You know, the one thing that I would, you know, sort of offer to you is while they're excited in LA about the draft and across the country, they're especially excited back home for you in Miami because cam Ward, the quarterback for the University of Miami, is, at least as we sit here now, the likely number one pick according to a
lot of the draftologists, including at the Athletics. So kim Ward could go number one to the Tennessee Titans. A great story University of Miami. I know obviously that school is very close to your heart. So it'd be interesting to see sort of what the atmospherics are around kim Ward potentially going number one.
A very exciting quarterback, very much so.
You know, when he came to Miami, some of the chatter with the Hurricane fan base was is Cam too small?
Is he too short?
And he quickly proved three four weeks in that he wasn't. I mean, I think he's going to be a phenomenal NFL quarterback from the little I saw with him as a Hurricane fan.
It's exciting.
And if he goes number one, he's definitely someone.
To watch, Yeah, for sure, And so he would potentially go to the Tennessee Titans have a quarterback issue that they need to work out if they do have him come on board. I mean probably the other two players that will be most broadly watched, especially from a business of sports perspective, or Travis Hunter and Shador Sanders teammates obviously at University of Colorado. Shador of course the son of coach Prime Travis Hunter, a generational talent, Heisman winner.
Wherever he ends up, he's going to do a lot of business for that team. You know, I was reading something earlier today which you'll appreciate, you know, having been a number one draft pick yourself, but you know, rated number one as a wide receiver and rated number one as a cornerback. Travis Hunter, I mean, he is an unbelievable athlete. So I can't wait to watch him play wherever he ends up playing.
But it's going to be a fun draft to watch.
And the last thing that I would say about the draft, and we get into this with Christine Dorfler in the conversation upcoming, is the whole notion of it's in green Bay.
What a great NFL city.
I mean, one cool thing about the Green Bay Packers is you well know, Alex, is that they're actually publicly owned. Now you can't go and buy the stock on the open market, but members of the public, they're fans, and there are thousands of them actually hold certificates of ownership in this team. It's a nonprofit, but they're actually owned not by a handful of individuals, but by their fans.
I love that.
And that's just a formality, Jason, Let's be real. I mean, if you like the Braves growing up because you grew up in Atlanta, you basically owned that team. And when you know Meta does well in their earnings or Google, you don't go.
Around saying we did great.
But when the Braves won a title, you say we won a title. So I love that. And Green Bay is one of the real iconic sports franchises, not only domestically, but I believe around the world totally.
And now coming up on the deal. Christine Dorfler, the CFO of the NFL. Welcome back to the Deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly, alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. So excited to have Christine Dorfler. She is the CFO and executive vice president of the National Football League.
Christine, Welcome to the show.
Oh, thank you for having me. I am such a fan, so excited to be here.
I think the place we want to start is basically with our obsession. I don't think there is an episode that goes by that we don't talk about the NFL in some form or fashion, because it looms so large in the business of sports, in this intersection of business, sports and culture that we talk about all the time. Christine, so take us inside the business. You know you've been in this seat for a couple of years now, how do you describe the business of the NFL.
It's so fascinating. I've been here for two years. I'm just coming up on my two year mark at the NFL. But before that, I spent almost twenty years at NBC, so I was in the media and entertainment space. And as you think about the NFL and just the impact it has on fans, on people, on local markets, and
on media and entertainment companies. I mean, this is a media and entertainment property, the world's largest arguably, and just the impact that that has our media partners, the way the content just resonates with fans, the way that fans are so incredibly passionate about it. I mean, that is
the business. And it's an honor for me to be in this chair and just to be part of this fantastic league and this fantastic you know, delivery of content that excites and unites people across the country and hopefully at some point across the globe.
So is it fair to say that because of your work at NBC, like you sort of knew what you were in for, but like, what was the thing that surprised you when you actually you know, when Roger you know, taps you for this job, Roger Goodell, the commissioner, you know, what's the thing that strikes you most when you.
Sort of first get there, like the first few days, Well, it's.
You know, it's so fascinating because I was on the other side my last job at NBC was the CFO of NBC Sports, So I was on the other side of those negotiation for media rights with our various partners,
certainly the NFL being the biggest of that. But when I got to the NFL, I mean, I think the thing that surprised me is just, you know, just how incredibly you know, you know, the NFL is on the top of its game, but when you look at the work that is happening in the thirty two local clubs and everything they're doing day in and day out, as well as at the league office to grow, to innovate, to think about the future. You know, from the outside looking in, you could say, well, you know, jeez, the
NFL is on the top of the game. You look at the revenue relative to any other sports league and it's certainly superior. You look at the viewership relative to other sports leagues, and you could say, geez, it would be so easy to sort of grow complacent and to sort of say, hey, we have great business model. We have a lot of stability with our media rights locked up for a little while, with the collective bargaining agreement locked up for a little while. But it couldn't be
further from what's happening. You know, people here are constantly thinking about what's next and how do we continue to grow, how do we continue to innovate, whether that's with flag football, whether that's with becoming a global sport property, all of the things I love that I love adrenaline, sort of base places and businesses. That was surprising, but not surprising, I guess.
I would say one of the things that's been surprising for me, Christine is like, you are the biggest and the best known around the world.
The shield is very, very powerful.
But I'm wondering, First of all, I'm fascinated with your background, which we'll get going to get into going back to Villanova and the army and all of that. But twenty years at NBC Sports as CFO, how did that help you shape and position you for this job that you have currently.
You know, Alex, I started at NBC, I was a manager. I was a pretty junior level finance person coming out of the military, and I made my way through all sorts of different jobs. I think the one propelled me to the next propelled me to the next, and it was all the sort of twists and turns and the different experiences I had that then landed me at NBC Sports, which you know, growing up I was love sports. I
played a bunch of sports. I ended up playing lacrosse in college, and so to be in that chair and to be in the sports media business was so exciting for me. But I feel like it was all the different steps along the way and the twists and turns and the jobs that were great and candidly some jobs that were not so great that helped to get me to NBC Sports. And then obviously that was a big part of why I think I'm here. I mean, the media partners are such a substantial part of our revenue.
They're such a substantial part of our business. And focusing on strengthening all of our media partners and bringing new ones in like Netflix this year with the Christmas Day Games was you know, it's part of what we think about all the time. And so I would say it was all those kind of building blocks along the way that got me ready for that role and ultimately led me here.
It's interesting, Christine, when you think about sort of the portfolio of things that you have in front of you across the business of the NFL. You know, media is one thing we've talked a bit about that I can tell you we could do it an entire episode just on private equity in the NFL. I know that that's something you were intimately involved in, and just to be clear to refresh the audience, this is the ability for a select group of private equity firms to own up
to ten percent of individual NFL franchises. Tell us about that from the league's perspective, because I have to say I've never really had that conversation with you or with Roger Goodell. I'm interested to see how you think it's working and sort of what the intention was and sort of what you're taking away from.
It so far.
Yeah, I mean, it was one of the first things I was a part of working on which was incredibly exciting and interesting and just sort of fascinating to see how the league and the owners thought about it. I mean, I would say the league was very thoughtful and intentional in coming up with the instruct and a construct that works for the NFL. It's not the same construct as you know that other sports leagues have adopted and had
adopted and implemented prior to the NFL. You know, we put together a committee of five owners and the owners worked a long time with staff from the league office to try to figure out what is the right construct, who are the right partners, how many partners should we have? And I think it was really you know, the ten percent works for the NFL. I think there's an element of this that is, you know, crawl, walk, run, and we're in the crawl stage and we're going to see
how it goes. These are passive limited partner investments. You're not going to see any you know, fund managers making coaching decisions right. Sure they would love to, but that's
not going to happen. I mean, it sort of maintains the foundation of the ownership construct where the controlling owner has to own thirty percent, but also offers owners of liquidity opportunity so that they can reinvest, reinvest in their businesses, reinvest in stadiums, reinvest in their club and their fan experiences and everything.
Else like that.
So it was important to get it right, I think, and I think there'll be you know, points in time we had to As you know, we had two fun transactions at the end of the calendar year last year with Miami and with Buffalo, with two of our fun partners with arctosin Ais and you know, we'll see what
happens next. I think it'll continue to evolve, But out of the gate, I think it was a really thoughtful, intentional construct that works for the NFL and then protects all the foundational parts of our policy that have made the lead great.
What makes it such a good business for private equity to come into space right now?
Yeah, I mean, look, first of all, I think number one,
it's finding the right partners. I think a lot of the time that the committee that we put together with the five owners spent a lot of time thinking about who are the right partners because this isn't something you know, we have a six year old period that's part of the policy, as you know, but this isn't something that I think we're going to see a lot of exit, right I think what we will see is, you know, you look at and not just the NFL, but you
look at the growth of franchise values. I mean, we saw it with the Bust and Celtic sale candidly, we see it with our limited partner valuations like the Philadelphia Eagles at the end of last year as well. This is something where I think Aiy's scarcity, right, there are only so many sports franchises. There are only thirty two NFL teams, and people want to be the owners of
those teams. So the scarcity values certainly helps. And then I think you look at the long term growth and the impact that we have on society, on fandom, on engagement. I mean, there really is nothing like the NFL that unifies people in that way and people want to be a part of it. And so I think that as you think about funds who are investing, I think they
see that growth. You know, certainly we spend a lot of time thinking about the media landscape and the disruption and what are the things we need to do to continue to innovate and how is that going to affect our top line When you think about scarcity and you think about the impact, you know, just sort of the power of the content in reaching so many people across
the country and again hopefully across the globe. At some point, I think that these funds come in and they see that long term growth potential.
Correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe you can't correct me if I am wrong, But NFL one of the reasons they're the envy of sports.
Around the world.
Is probably the only league at this scale that is not only growing top line revenue but also net earnings. And to be thirty two for thirty two or even close to that is it is such an anomaly because teams usually break even, they lose a little money, they make a little money, and they're fine and they're ready to go to the next hole. NFL is truly the anomaly that grows both sides top end net earnings.
Yeah, no, absolutely last year alsoty two of our clubs are profitable. And I don't think other sports leagues can say that. But you know, as you think about top line growth, and certainly you can make an argument that you know, franchise valuations are based on that top line growth,
but there's profit growth as well. And we look at clubs, financials and sort of core tiles, you know, the four core tiles split into eight clubs each, and you know, you see the gap between the top eight clubs and you know the bottom eight clubs from a financial perspective closing. And that's what you want to see. You want to see sort of the tide lifting all boats, and that is what we've seen and that's a really really strong, you know, financial metric.
Well, that's it's a really interesting point too. And Alex, I know something you and I have talked about on this show is how that is certainly not the case in all the leagues. And I'm thinking specifically at baseball, which is something that you've talked a lot about in terms of that that haves and the have not. The gap is widening, not drinking, and that's a real issue for the growth of a league.
So when you think about those growth.
Attributes, Christine International, you mentioned this in passing, but let's dig in on it a little bit. Is clearly an area where the NFL is keenly interested in individual franchise owners and club owners are very interested in that as well.
It's a pretty complicated.
System of you know, who has rights where and who's playing where, and I think people pay a lot of attention to who's doing what in which markets help us understand the strategy there, Like, how do you think about creating a system? Because we know that the NFL has been successful by being methodical, it does feel like you've been pretty aggressive internationally, is that fair? Like, how would you characterize the international expansion?
Yeah, I will say there's an enormous strategic focus on it. What do we need to be doing, how do we need to be thinking about growing fandom globally, what are the key priority markets and really identifying where and how and how much money it's going to take to invest to grow that fandom. I mean, this coming season, we're going to play seven international games. We'll play three in London.
We're entering three new markets right We'll be in Dublin for the first time, we'll be in Madrid for the first time, and we'll be in Berlin for the first time, and then we'll return to Brazil we played last year Eagles Packers kick off weekend in Brazil and South Paalo and we'll return to South Paalo and then we have our sites set on expansion beyond that. So we announced a multi year deal to play in Australia starting in
the twenty twenty sixth season in Melbourne. So it is something we spend a ton of time thinking about how to get it right, how to be a global sports property, whether that's player academies and player development, whether that's a global markets program. In twenty nine of our thirty two clubs participate in our Global markets program, all of the things that you need to do to build that fantom, to get the rest of the world to know and to learn and to love the game as much as we do here.
And so Christy, you know, one of the things, you know, when we talk about the globe, we can't help but think about the global economy and it is really something right now, to say the least. And one of the things that has always been attractive about sports franchise for people is the sort of uncorrelated nature to get very bloombergiy about it of these assets over time, and yet you know, you're still talking about not just people tuning in,
but people showing up, people buying merchandise. How much as the CFO do you have to keep an eye on sort of what's happening forget geopolitically, but really just geoeconomically as it relates to your business.
Yeah, it's interesting because that question has come up a lot over the past couple of days, just as things evolve, and obviously read the headlines and from our employees even and we certainly have to keep an eye on it.
I mean, there are aspects, certainly of our business model that are contracted and that's great, but we also want to recognize that most of our you know, about half of total league wide revenue comes from our media deals, right, And we want our media partners feel the impact of a recession if there were to be a recession, right, because they're you know, advertising based. In some cases, during a recession, those are the first budgets to get cut. And so if our media partners feel it, we feel it.
We want them to be successful, we want them to grow revenue, and so we think about it from a media partner aspect, and we also think about it through discretionary spend. Right, Fans going to games, that's a discretionary spend, and in a world where an economy is challenged or where there is a recession, that discretionary spend could could be affected. And then I think, finally we just think about it as it relates to the tariffs and what
impact that could have. As we think about international expansion and what we're doing internationally, and also stadium built stadium renovation and development in the stadium builds and how that impacts the clubs who are spending money investing in their stadiums, whether it's a renovation or a new build as well, so we keep a very close eye on it and try to account for different scenarios in the financial planning we're doing as well.
All Right, So now we're going to play a fun little game, which is let's talk about the draft from three different perspectives. First, my perspective, which is the least interesting, which is a fan of football. I root for the Atlanta Falcons. That's my hometown. So it's always interesting to see who they're going to draft, to say the least.
You know, Arthur Blank were with you, like, do it right, let's go.
There's one person on this call right now who was drafted, and we're going to ask him about that perspective. And then Christine, I want to ask you about the business of the draft. But you know, Alex Partner, come on in here. We are literally, you know.
Amid the NFL draft.
You weren't drafted to play football, though you know, I don't know, maybe you could have been. You were drafted to play baseball. What's it like to be drafted?
Well, the NFL did have an impact because Dan Marino was my favorite football player of course growing up here in Miami, and he was like the greatest, coolest thing in the world. As a matter of fact, I met Dan as a fifteen year old. He's put his arm around me and he said, you know you're gonna make it big one day. And now we're great friends. And it was just a really nice story that makes me feel good. And we bonded over thirteen. But as far as the draft, I'll never forget. It was June of
nineteen ninety three. My mom comes from very, you know, humble background, so I had an opportunity to have my dream come true.
I was drafted by the Mariners.
I was going to play with the Michael Jordan of baseball, which was Ken Griffy Junior And it was a life change and experience and it was when my journey began. And as a day I'll never forget.
And so, Christine, you were a fantastic lacrosse player at Villanova, but there was no professional lacrosse league at that point.
I'm sure you would have been you wouldn't made it.
Our friend Paul r who's been against on this program you know now, is making that right. And there is a women's professional league, but there wasn't at the time. And yet now you oversee and help oversee with Roger Goodell and others. You know, this unbelievable like is then, I mean the ratings for which are through the roof. It's this unbelievable sort of moment nowhere near the NFL
season where everybody's talked about the NFL. So what is it like for the business of the NFL to have the draft be this big of a deal.
Oh, it's huge, And you know it's interesting to me. I had never been to an NFL draft before I started in this role, and I went out to Detroit last year. It was just absolutely blown away by the you know, you think about the NFL being in the off season, right the off season, and I mean hundreds of thousands of fans hyped up, excited, wearing their jerseys,
just ready to go. There's no game, right and it really does speak to long before my time at the NFL, the NFL's ability to really event tiz event ties and you know, really keep that engagement with fans throughout the calendar year all twelve months, right, you think about the draft, the combine, the schedule release in May, the start of
training camp. I mean, it's just year round, continuing to grow and develop that excitement, and then from a business perspective, you know, as I've looked back and sort of studied the economics of it, the draft used to be up until twenty fourteen. I believe it was a local event done out of Radio City Music Hall, and now it is a full city takeover with hundreds. I mean every
year it's breaking records in terms of attendance. You know, I think Green Bay this year will be the ninth city, ninth new market that the draft has gone into since it left Radio City in twenty fifteen, which is pretty incredible. And we have over half the teams have expressed interest
in hosting a draft. I mean, there's just tremendous interest, you know, and there's all sorts of right correlations, I think as you think about you know, I've I've heard since I've started that the Draft in Nashville in twenty nineteen was a real turning point. You saw, you know, the all kinds of NFL fans up and down Broadway, and that was something that helped lead to public funding
in the stadium development in Nashville. So there's all sorts of correlations that are positive from a business perspective, and you know, it's just you spoke about the ratings. I mean, the viewership is off the charge. It beats the finals of some other sports leagues. So it's it really is incredible in terms of the power of engaging with an audience, engaging with fans when you're not in season, and really continuing that sort of thread throughout the off season.
By the way, the owner of an NBA and WNBA team is shaking his head at that very statistic, Christine.
But go on, yeah, we all envy the NFL, that's for sure, you know, Christine. All of the business metrics we've been talking about over the last twenty or twenty five minutes have been under the leadership of Commissioner Roger Goodell.
And he's been great with me personally. But I'm wondering, from your point of view, you've been there about two years, what do you see as his superpower and in such a short time, what are some of the lessons you've learned from him that make him tick Because the NFL has been up into the right for a very long time under his leadership.
Yeah, no, tremendous And look, I mean my understanding is Roger started as an intern at the NFL, and so he knows the place inside and out for sure. But I think his superpower is he's restless, right, He never grows complacent. It is always let's celebrate the wins, but let's look at what's next, Let's look at how we can do better, Let's look at how we can innovate.
Let's look at tremendous partners. I mean, one of the things that was just so incredible to me when I started as CFO was the companies that want to work with the NFL, and it just is it's phenomenal, and so what can we learn from them? He is always learning, thinking, innovating and looking ahead to what's next. And you know, look, if you're a fan, if you're a player, if you're a coach, if you're a general manager, if you're an owner, if you're a media partner, that's that's what.
You want, all right, Christine.
We're going to get to our rapid fire segment in a second, but before we do that, you know, we've sort of nodded to some of your background, and you know, Villanova and you talked a lot about your experience at NBC one. I think very notable thing is your time you know, in the army, in army intelligence. How does
that sort of experience play into a job like that. Certainly, I would imagine it gives you some perspective and gives you a sense of like what ultimately is important in defending our country, you know, versus a football game, which we all love to watch. But what's the perspective you bring or are there certain skills or attributes that you find yourself sort of going back to from those early days.
Yeah, no question was. It was incredibly foundational for me. I wouldn't trade my experience in the army for anything. I feel very fortunate to have served and to have served alongside some really phenomenal human beings where services is front and center for them, and I learned a ton from them. I mean, the things I learned that were foundational for me that I still apply at this day.
It's the grit and resilience. You can learn that from sports, you can learn that from a lot of different places, but when you see it in action, particularly when you're overseas and you see people away from soldiers, away from their families, and the way they dig deep and find that grit and resilience within them, it was just phenomenal. And I learned that. I learned it by watching people I served with, and I learned it myself. And then I think the ability to learn and adapt, to really listen.
You know, when I was I was a twenty two year old platoon leader in charge of people who had far more years of experience than I did. And you're not successful unless you listen and you learn, and you're patient and you're thoughtful, and you learn an appreciation for what other people do and figure out how you can help support them as a leader. So all of those skills. I mean, it was a short you know, in the scheme of a career, it was a very short time.
But at the same time, I draw on those lessons every day.
All right, well, we're going to move to the rapid fire portion of the conversation, the lightning round five questions, Keep it tight. We're gonna bounce it back and forth all starting then Alex, we'll pick up what's the best piece of advice you've ever received on deal making or business?
I think, always do something you're a little not ready to do, those nervous butterflies, and prepare but also be willing to take a risk.
Who's your dream deal making partner?
You know what I got to say. My father, he's retired now, spent a long career in finance, but has now become a historian. He wrote a book on sort of the lessons you can learn from history and how to apply him to the business world. He's patient, he's thoughtful, and he's just a super smart person, and he would be my dream deal maker. What's the name of the book, Battlefield Lessons to Business Bullets. It's a great, great book. It's short, but a lot of application there.
And what's your dad's name.
His name's Jerry mcnaff.
Okay, all right on the reading list. Now, what's the most nervous you've ever.
Been jumping out of an airplane? When I was in the military, you.
Know that's number one for us.
Haven't been more nervous than that. Less even day one working for Roger Goodell, I was still more nervous jumping out of a plane.
I've never fail so un accomplished.
All right, here we go.
Number four. What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting or negotiation.
Well, I'm a Philly girl, so it's got to be going to fly now. The rocky song.
Ah yeah, love it, love it all right.
What's your advice for someone listening who wants a career like yours?
I think, figure out a way to show that grid, show that resilient, show that determination, and just figure out a way to lose without being defeated. You're not going to get your dream job day one. You're going to take twists and turns, but figure out a way to learn from the losses and not get defeated and keep plugging away.
All right, Christine, It's been really fun to get to know you off camera, and you know, on this show, we really appreciate your time. We know it's a super busy time of year because the NFL never sleeps.
Man, we know that Alex.
Will never sleep.
No, it's great. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much, now, thank you so much.
Fun the Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly. This episode was made by Anamazarakus, Stacy Wong, and Lizzie Phillip. Amy Keen is our editor and Will Connelly is our video editor. Our theme music is made by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig and Brendan neonham Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks so much for listening to the deal. If you
have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.