Shouzi Chew

for younger people. Is that wrong? There is really something for everyone on TikTok. I would I would have you installed TikTok yet do it? Well? I'm not an expert on TikTok. I have looked at it, but I haven't seen anything that you know looks like me. I think you may be surprised, uh. For for example, for example, there was something called book talk on on TikTok. It is a hashtag and it really is a trend where people share short videos on their favorite books. And you'd

be probce how many views they have. We have forty billion views on book talk alone. There are many other categories. There is clean talk, which is about people cleaning thirty billion views. You know, I personally am a very amateur golfer. Hashtag golf has more than ten billion views on TikTok as well, So I believe there is something for everyone.

The way we want to present this is we have a machine learning recommendation engine which personalizes your experience when you use TikTok, and we believe there's something for you as well. Okay, so can anybody put a video on TikTok, Yes, very easily. All right, How do you control of somebody puts something on that's dangerous or pornographic or or not appropriate. This is a great question. One of the most important things that I have been focusing on since I took

on the role nearly a year ago. It's on the safety of our platform is something we take absolutely seriously, and we have elevated this as a top priority for myself and for the company. We put a significant amount of investment into it h and we believe that we need to continue to invest in trust and safety to stay ahead of our growth because of the growth of

the platform. So, for example, making sure that making sure that our community guidelines which are published transparently online, are well understood by our users, making sure that we have the tools and the capabilities to ensure a safe environment, a safe and inclusive environment on our platform, so that our users feelings I feel like feel that is a trusted environment to to publish and to inspire the creativity they want to. So let's suppose I want to be

a TikTok person. I want to be on TikTok, but I have to make a living. Um can I make a living by just being on TikTok or the people that make a living just by being on TikTok. Most of our users come on TikTok to to share how they feel into to inspire, you know, to inspire the world. But there are people who come on TikTok, and this is something we're extremely proud of. Um. We have an able them. We have given them the platform and the tools to actually make a proper living. And most of

these are small businesses or individuals. I can give you an example. I have been looking at my own TikTok recently and I saw this video on t case Surf and Turf. It is a restaurant in Denver. I think it's the first black owned, family operated seafood restaurant in Denver. Uh. What I've heard is during the pandemic, business was poor for a lot of restaurants, including them. But what what one creator did was to create videos on what, you know,

how great the restaurant was. It became an overnight sensation. It went viral, and our business is booming for for that company. So and there are thousands upon thousands of examples like that across the US and across the world. And well, you know, this is something that we are immensely proud of that we have a platform the small businesses can make use of to get to grow their business. Spose I want to be a TikTok performer and I

want to get paid for it. Do I do something that says this restaurant is great and hopefully restaurant won't pay me. Is that how people get paid by being on TikTok. There are several mechanisms to do it. The first is if you become if you have enough followers, certain brands will get in touch with you, either through us or otherwise two for you to represent their brand, So you become the brand ambassador. So that's one way.

Some of our creators get paid. Beyond that, we have provided them with tools to monetize, you know, to get in touch with the followers and the monetize that that that as well. For example, we have a live streaming service, so as a creator, you can you can launch, you can have a live streaming session and that is an exclusive, exclusive session where you can interact with the followers and your followers can give you virtual gifts, and that's one

way you can monetize. The other example is e commerce. We provide our creators with the tools to be able to sell merchandise on the atform as well. This is do a new part of our business, but it's something that people are very very excited about. How do you make money? Then other words, somebody goes on TikTok and they're making money for this restaurant in in Denver, How

do you make any money? We make money primarily through advertising and also providing services like live streaming and decommon style uses. And we we do have a service fee that that we charge to provide those services. But if somebody just uploads their video on TikTok, do they pay you a fee for that or not? No, it's absolutely free. Are there companies now that specialized in making people TikTok stars. Somebody says, I want to be on TikTok. I want people to watch me. Maybe I can sell my my

services to an advertising company or some way. Um, there are the people that polish up people's TikTok presentations the way our platform works, and my advice to anyone who wants to be famous on our platform is to just beat themselves. What we have found is that this community is is This community wants real tent, They want the real roar content. They want to see people being themselves. So um, the many people tell me it's a breath of fresh air, is the sunny corner of the internet.

So my advice to anyone who wants to be famous is really to beat themselves. So recently, Mark Zuckerberg announced at his quarterly earnings after explaining why the stock went down by as a result of the declining use of Facebook, he attributed to TikTok and TikTok was becoming a big rival. He said, how did it feel to be blamed by Mark Zuckerberg for the decline and value of Facebook? We are a very young company at this point, and they

are still very big competitors in the market. Some of them have been around for a long time with a lot of resources. So the way we look at it, there's still a long way for us to go in terms of achieving the mission that we want to achieve. We think that there are a number of things that makes us unique in the market. The first is that

we are pineers in what we do. We have innovated this form of short video combined with a four you feed, and we are confident that in the coming years we will continue to innovate on that front and bring the best and the most interesting value proposition to our use this. So if Mark Zuckerberg we're here, would just say, don't worry about us, We're not a big competition to you, or we'll just say we're coming after you. I think

for us, David, we are more focused on ourselves. I think over the long run, the biggest competitor that we have as Cliche is going to sound is going to be ourselves. We have a mission which is to inspire creativity and to bring joy, and we believe that our most important focus is to focus on delivering that mission. But let me ask you this, most of the large Chinese technology companies. Let's say Ali Baba, Bai Do ten Cent. They have gigantic market values and they're very prominent in China.

Not as prominent outside of China as obviously in China, and certainly not that prominent the United States. TikTok, by contrast, is not in China, but it's gigantic outside of China, the United States and everywhere. What did TikTok do that enabled a Chinese based company parent company at least to

do so well outside of China. We think it's challenging to build a global company in general, but the best ones we have seen so far are ones that take very consistent global learnings in adapt them to the local, to the local, to the local countries that they are operating in. So you need to be global and local at the same time. And it's something that we're investing in.

For example, here in the US, we have a very sizable team here in New York and Austin in l A at this point in UH, becoming more local is something we will continue to invest in. Okay, let's talk about the beginning of of TikTok. So what is byte dance byke Dance was the parent company, When was byte Dance started and who was they founder a byte Dance. I was very fortunate about ten years ago to have to have had the chance to participate in the company

as an investor. Back Dance was founded in t Bye Eiming, and the original Like any good start up story, the original the original product has evolved over time and there were many hits and mrs you know, as in the evolution of the company. One thing that has remained very consistent for Bye Dance is the mission. The mission for by Dance today is to inspire creativity and to enrich life.

And what I've noticed over the course of the decade that I've known the company is that they have been very consistent in wanting to deliver this mission to as many people as possible and driven by this mission. What struck me in the early days of by Dance was the desire to be mobile, the focus on machine learning recommendation, and this desire to be global, and it's been very system over the last ten years. I should disclose that my own investment company is an investor in Bye Dance.

We took an investment a number of years ago and then I assume it will be a good investment. I don't know. But let's talk about how TikTok evolved out of byte Dance. So when did TikTok come along. The original apps that were developed by byte Dance had a very similar concept, which was to recommend content to use this based on machine learning. Machine learning algorithms that tries

to understand the user's behavior. The first iteration of it that was successful was a news app, so it took news content and it recommended news to use this based on their own behavior on the app. Now, sometime between sixteen that evolved into short video and that evolved into TikTok. And did anybody think it would turn out to be as global phenomenon at the beginning? No? No, all right,

So let me ask you about TikTok and regulation. Under President Trump, there was a concern that certain information that TikTok was getting from people using TikTok was somehow going to be detrimental to the United States, and there was an effort to force TikTok to sell its US business.

What happened to that effort. We believe that our approach to all the governments that regulators around the world is to be collaborative and to be very transparent, to be available to explain what we do and who we are, and answer any questions that we have. That's the approach we have taken in that approach has been an approach that has been very beneficial for us over the course of the last few years. But there was a proposal at one point that require you to sell the TikTok

business in the US. I think it was going to be sold perhaps to Larry Elson's company Oracle. Is that off the table now and right now you're not being forced to sell anything. Is that right? We have moved beyond that conversation. It is okay. And the current administration and bid the administration have they picked up the cudgels and said, well, we want to engage in the same fighter. Right now, you don't have to worry about that again.

We are taking the approach now to be very transparent, to be very engaged, very collaborative, and to answer any questions that they may have. Okay, But the biggest concern that people had, at least some people in the Trump administration had it, maybe other people, is that the data that you have on your computers about who's watching what. I presume the data you have would somehow get fed back to China and China would have it for its

use the Chinese government. Is that true that your data is subject of being given to or you're forced to give it the Chinese government. We disagree with that the ways TikTok is set up today. First of all, TikTok is not available for download in China. It operates outside of China. The datas the data for TikTok uses is thought in Virginia and in Singapore, with the backup in Singapore, uh and we believe that we have a very rigorous and robust system to protect the data security of our uses.

What do you do with the data? So let's suppose I on TikTok and I like certain kinds of things to watch. You presumably can in your algorithms know that what do you do with that? That you sell it to another company or do you do nothing with it? It is our recommendation engine. The best way to think about it is that it's just pure mathematics. It's it. It digests the behavior that ill uses have on our platform, including likes. You know what videos do you like? The comments?

How long you stay on the particular video, so on and so forth. So signals like behavioral signals like that, and it recommends him, It recommends the content that you could potentially be most entertained by. So so that's really how the that's really how the data is being used on our platform. And how many countries are you in now outside of China and India essentially all the other every country? Okay? And today you have something that's proprietary

such that somebody couldn't come along and compete. In other words, there's always people coming along trying to disrupt companies, and that certainly happens a lot in the tech where all are you worried that somebody is going to come along with a new product that's slightly better than yours or do you think it's unlikely given how dominant you are in the business now, David, This this is a very competitive space and in our industry there are players with

like but bigger muscles. They have more resources, they have been around for a longer period of time, and I think it keeps us on our toes. No, we have you know, we have our strengths. We are pineers in this. You know, we believe that We are innovative and we will continue to innovate. And we have a very unique community that we talked about that that we believe is very special and not easily replicable. So we have our advantages. We are confident, but at the same time, competition is

very intense. Now China has been a little tougher, some people would say, on Chinese tech companies than it was a year or two ago, and there's been what some people would say clamp down on Chinese tech companies. Has that affected you in any way? I think in in in this day and age, we have to be very collaborative and be very transparent and have an active dialogue with regulators and governments around the world to help them understand our business and to answer any questions that you

may have. As I mentioned earlier, my my firm did invest in it, but I don't have any inside information, and I don't know if you're going to give me the inside information. But is there any plan to take Bite Dance public at some point? Our current focus, given the growth of our company, is to really focus on the business. There's just so much we can do, especially for TikTok that really our management focuses on growing the business at this point and making sure that we are

investing in the right things that we invest in. At some point we will access the capital markets. At some point we will, but that is really not the priority at this point. And when you go go into the public markets, what do you think when your public documents are revealed will be the biggest surprise. It's the size of the platform or the profitability of it. What do you think is likely to be the biggest surprise. That's a very good question. I need to go back and

think about it. I think most of what we do is is followed and many people sort of you know, thankfully you have a lot of interest in in our business today, so I'm not sure whether there will be any big surprises. Let's talk about your own background. So you mentioned your Singapore and were you born in Singapore. I am born in Singapore, okay, And did you go

to college and high school in Singapore. The thing about growing up in a small island like Singapore, David, is you get won the lust at a very young age. It's a tropical paradise. It's a tiny island. I love it, but it's very small. So after high school and after the National Service. We have National service there. I, you know, went to the UK for college and then subsequently to hear in the US V Business School where I and my wife. All right, you went to Harvard Business School?

I did? And so how do you think Harvard Business School was? Was it smarter? The people they're smarter than your thought or not as smart as you thought they'd It was a great I had a great time there. The most important moment was I met my wife in business school, So to me, this is a you know, it was a great two years. Okay. So you graduate from Harvard Business School in what year? All right? So

what did you do then? After business school? I joined an investment company called DST which invests in internet companies. Is this your A Milners company? Yes? And so what did you do for him? You look for Internet related investments. That's what I did, okay? And how many years were you there? I was there for about five years, and it was doing this time that I got to meet and meet and invest in Byte Dance. Okay, So after you left your A Milners operation, what did you do?

I joined a company called shell Me, where I initially was the CFO and then ran the global operations for the company. Okay, so you did that for a while and then a head hunter called you up and said, guess what we want you to come to Bite Dance or how did that happen? It wasn't a head hunter. The I've stayed very close to the folks and Bitte Dance because of my early relationship with them, so they reached out. There's a little known fact about me, which

is I used to be a creator. I actually had a hundred and eighty five thousand follow us on that account, and so I've had to go through that process of learning how to connect with my followers and using the product, and it was an amazing way. I found the product so amazing in terms of being being able to communicate the messages I wanted to my followers. So I love the product. I've known the team for a long time. I think that the mission is something that I really

truly believe in. So when the opportunity opened up, it was very organic for me to trave ad followers. Now I did you did? Now you've given them up? Or what do you have now? That account was used to sell products. So I have since transitioned into a sort of a more consumer based a more sort of personal account.

All right, So you were recruited to become the CFO of byte Dance, right, and you have that job, You're the CFO a Byte Dance, and after just like five weeks they promoted you to be the CEO of TikTok Is that right? It was after it was after a couple of months. A couple of months, okay, So was that a promotion? I think it's that the nature of the job is very different. And what is the biggest

challenge that you have as a CEO? Is it to keep the regulators away or to get more customers, more advertisers. What is the biggest challenge? There are a couple of things that you know keeps me awakend night, And I think that's the question. Um. The opportunity that we have. I believe that we have something that's very unique. We pioneered this sort of short video format, and would we have a very unique community today that has all these

kind of raw, authentic content that people love. And I think the opportunity that we have to take this to more people around the world to inspire them and for them to bring more joy to more people. This is a great and unique opportunity. Excuse me, very very excited. At the same time, there are challenges that we have to work through, for example, making sure that we are investing enough more and more into safety to stay ahead of our growth, because it is something that's very important

to us. So challenges and opportunities they, you know, both excite me equally. Since so you took the job of CEO of TikTok, we've been living in COVID. How hard has it been to manage a company during COVID? Are you've mostly been isolated or how have you been operating during COVID? It has been a challenging time. I think for many businesses around the world, including ours. We are a growing company, it is difficult for new employees who are joining us do not have the opportunity to mingle

and interact with other people offline in the offices. So it is something that you know, Uh, thankfully we are at the stage of the pandemic where we can start thinking about return to office. It is something that you know, we want to vite, especially the newcomers in our company, the right opportunities to to integrate and to blend in and to make sure that they have, they have the right opportunities to interact with with as many people as they want. So if you look at TikTok, what is

your favorite single thing you've watched on TikTok? Is there one thing you've watched and you said this is my favorite? Uh, there are a number of them. I am an amateur golfer, So hashtag golf has ten billion views more on TikTok. It's it's very, very entertaining. So if you watch golf on TikTok, do you get to be a better golfer

or not necessarily unfortunately, not necessarily help. Okay, when you are not working at TikTok and you're not golfing, there's there any outside interest you have or you don't have any outside time? I do, I do. I'm a very I'm I'm an amateur theoretical physicist, as in I'm reading books on theoretical physics and and trying to understand it. So that's something that I love. I've interviewed many people

over the years. I've never interviewed anybody who said that they're hobby was amateur theoretical physics, so that must be unusual. Um So do you regret not becoming the next Albert Einstein or something like that. I don't think I have the ability to be that. I hardly understand the mathematics behind some of the more complex theories, but I find it very interesting. So today, as you look forward to what you're going to be doing over the next year or so, what are you most focused on. I'm most

focused on trust building. We are a young company, and I think trust is something that we have to earn through actions, for example, through our continued investment in safety. So that is a big focus for me that we are focused on not only growing out business, but earning trust with the right stickholders around the world along the way. Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.