Jack Nicklaus

so forth. I am not a golfer. I have to be honest with you. I took it up when I was nine. I quit when I was ten. I'm not. I'm not one anymore either. Okay, but now, well you're pretty famous in golf. But um, it was too frustrating. And here's what I couldn't understand. Why is it that so many people are addicted to something that is so humiliating and frustrating for so many people all the time. If wald ever goes where it's supposed to go, why why are people so addicted to it? Well, that's a

pretty good question. I kept trying to think about that that's it's a it's a It's a never ending pursuit of an unattainable goal, is what it really is. Right, You could try all you want, and nobody has ever mastered the game. Well, most all athletes and all other sports love to play golf because it's difficult. It's it's challenging for him, and it challenges them at whatever level they play. And I think that's why I enjoyed it.

That's why I enjoyed it. I enjoyed playing it because no matter how good I got, I could always be better. So when you were growing up, you played many different sports, is that right? And actually you were recruited to play football at Ohio State basketball basketball, but you were a good football player as well, So at the time, golf was not your most important sport, or was it one of the three most important? Golf was another sport at the time. But once I, once I started into college,

I want a national lesser than national travel. But it got me on the Walker Cup team, and all of a sudden, I was now one of the twelve best amateurs in the country. And then later that year I went the national Landor and I was ranked number one, and I said, hmm, maybe I'm better at this than I thought I was. And then I almost won the US Open the next year that I did when the U s Aminor again the next year, and then I said, well, maybe I need to go play against the best if

I want to be the best. So it was, it was, it was, you know, a process. But your father was the one who got you in the golf. Initially was a golfer himself. He was a decent golfer as a kid. And then he quit for fifteen years and was a pharmacist and he broke his ankle playing volleyball. He ended up having three operations and had it fused, and the doctor said, Charlie says, if you don't want to end up the wheelchair, you better walking again. So he took

he went. We moved out to the suburb to Upper Arlington to Soyota Country Club. He joined there, took me along to carry the bag and because he couldn't make a game, because a good walk very far. And that particular year that fellow name Jack Grout came to Siota and the PGA Championship came to SIoT of that year. So I got all that in my first year of playing golf, and it just sort of got me charged up to learn a sport. Now, Jack Grout became your coach for most of your career. He was my coach

until he passed. So your father and Jack Rout were the people who mostly got you on the way in golf. You would say, yep, my dad was. My dad was sort of my best friend and my and uh and my idol. I love my dad because and he just he just did everything with me, just just he just gave up everything for me. In those days, Um, it wasn't clear that you could make a big career financially and as a professional golfer. So you were thinking of

getting a degree as an accountant or to be a pharmacist. Well, I started college. I mean, most kids want to be what their dad was. So my dad was a pharmacist. So I went through pre pharmacy. I hated afternoon labs all right, and so my dad taught me out of go before we went to pharmacy school and talked talked me into doing something else. So I started selling insurance and I just love selling life insurance to my fraternity brothers.

They really needed it, and so I did that for a while, and I did pretty well at it, and I was making good money, and uh, I got married and had a first child, and but I really wanted to play golf, you gonta, That's what I did. You got married to Barbara and you've been married how many years? Next month? Years? Okay? And the result is five children and twenty two grandchildren's right now. You never forget a name of a grand job when they come along. You

know their names. I know their name, and I know I know their birthdays. Really, okay, it's pretty impressive. So in those days you were thinking of maybe becoming professional, you weren't sure, and you met with Bob Jones, did you Robert Jones, famous most famous amateur golfer of them all?

And how did you actually come to meet him? Well, he was he was a speaker at at the banquet in my first U s Aminar when I was fifteen years old and at that time, and he was he got he got paralyzed as he would on and but he was he still walking with canes at that time. And he saw me play having in the last practice round. They said, young man, I'm gonna come out and watch

you play a little bit tomorrow. Here have my fifteen year old kid playing in my first yuice Ebert and the greatest player who had ever lives, Bob Joe's, is gonna come out and watch me play. And he came out and I immediately went bogey bogie double bogie. Lost my match, but it was a great experience and I became a good friend. Uh. And he was he was great counsel. He was, he was, he was he was

really a really a good man. So you decided ultimated turn professional in the year after you won the second Amateur and won the US Amateur twice. After you had done that, you decided you'd make a career out of it. Well, I didn't have any more goals to or anything. We have more to do in amateur golf. And I wanted to be the best I could be at at playing golf, so I said the only way I could do that is to play against the best. The only way to

do that's play against the pros. So that's why, all right, In those days the compensation was good, but not compared to today. So now I was making as much money selling insurance as I would have played one playing golf. But you did I I surpassed it, though, So as you went on, you had the rivalry with Arnold Palmer a bit. He was the leading golfer when you came in the pros and then you surpassed him in many ways. But what was it like in the early days when

you were rising and he was sort of at the top. Well, you know, I'm I wasn't real popular because I started beating Arnold, and uh, you know, I wasn't popular with myself because I was an Arnold Palmer fan. And in Arnold was a good guy. He we got to be very close friends, our wives got to be very close friends. But he was and he never really seemed to mind that I beat him more than he beat me. And I'm sure he probably did inside, but he never let

me know it. He took me under his wing, and uh he's ten years older than I was, and uh he he was. He was great to me. So I have no I have nothing but love for Arnold Palmer. So in your career, you won eighteen majors, which is the most of anybody, and Tiger Woods is now one with the most recent masters win fifteen. But many people think that trying to beat your records almost impossible. I

don't know. Tigers. Tigers pretty good. So let's see, you won the Masters six times, and is that your favorite tournament? The Masters? Probably so in your course of your career, eyes, I remember you've won more than a hundred uh tournaments, that right, and the eighteen Majors, And you were the leading money winner seven times, leading shot lowest shot for a tournament for a year seven times. And there's no record in golf you haven't achieved, is that right? Was

there anything left for you to achieve? I don't know that it is any record that I haven't achieved. But you know my record is is good. But you know you could always be better. That's that's the neat thing about the game of golf. No matter how how good you get us up, you could be better. So um, in terms of being better, it's hard to know how you can do much better than you've done. But that's you asked you about a couple of things. What is it the key that makes somebody a great golf or

is it concentration? Is it physical ability? Is it just I think the combination of those things. I think I think your mind is a big part about it. I think you've got to believe in what you can do. You've got to learn to play within yourself. I think, I think anybody in all walks of life, I don't care what business you're in, you need to work within yourself. Uh. And then and you need to do what you can do, not what somebody else can do. And he's out and

you start believing in that. And then I think winning breeds winning. So I was lucky my first year I won the US Open and won the biggest tournament in golf my first first, first year out. Uh that I believed that I could play. So so all of a sudden they started coming in a little easier for me. So in the first year you won the US Open, was that in a playoff with Arnold Palmer had to fight Arnold's gallery a lot. But I never had to

fight Arnold. He always treated me with respect. It treated me like a uh fellow competitor and we so I didn't have those issues. So one of the most enjoyable tournaments people would say to ever have watched, anybody could have watched, was the Six Masters. When you were an old old man of um those days that seemed like an old man. But today to me it's very young today, right, so people had never no one had ever one I major. I guess over the age of maybe forty forty two

at that time. Tiger won the Masters now at forty three, but forty six was considered ready for you know, a golf cart or a wheelchair or something. So you were you were not leading that tournament until really near the end. You were but four shots behind with the final nine holes to go, Is that right? I was, I was still the first time I led the tournament was after seventy one holes going to the last. But you were four shots behind at the final nine. So did you

actually think you could win? Well? I, uh, well, I burnie nine, I buried ten, I buried eleven, I messed up twelve a little bit, but then I buried thirteen. And then when I eagled fift and burnie sixteen and burned seventeen. Yeah, I thought I could win because I was late. But it's not the most emotional win you've ever had. Well, you know, it's kind of funny because I I really I really finished playing golf by then.

I played by had won two majors when I was forty years old, and I really just enjoyed playing golf and I wanted to be part of the game. And I just sort of struck lightning to the bottle a little bit that week, and all of a sudden, I got around to uh, the last nine holes of last

ten holes, and I remembered how to play. I mean, you you get yourself in contention and all of a sudden, much like what Tiger happened to Tiger at the Bastards this year, when when when I saw the fellow start to fill up the creek on at Raised Creek, which is a twelfth hole, and he took us pretty little shot out kind of down the middle of greened, I said, tournaments over, because he will remember how to play. And that's what I did. I learned, I remembered how to play,

and I remembered how to finish it. It was, it was, It was really fun being able to do that. You earlier in your career decided that you wanted to be involved in golf course design, and as I now understand that you have personally designed by three courses and your company has designed over I guess it's four hundred or so, and uh, about a thousand tournaments have been held on these courses so, and they're in forty six different countries

in forty different states, so it's pretty impressive. Well, I got into it by following Pete Die. Pete Die has been sort of the premier golf course designer over the last thirty years or so. And Pete one day called me, and this is in the mid sixties. He said, Jack, I'd like to have you come out and see I'm doing a new course for following Fred Jones, and I want you to come out and see what it is. I said, what anybody see? Pete? He says, I want you to critique it for me. I said, Pete, I

don't know anything about design. He saw, you know more than you think you know. I said, okay. So I went out, looked through the golfers, we did things, and then he asked me a couple of things. I said, I don't know anything about that. He says, yeah, you do. Just tell me what you what you would like to see,

and he did it. Well, I got piqued my interests and I got a call from Charles Fraser's Spines plantation down in Harbor Town and and in Hilda Island, and he said, Jack, I'd like to have you to your golf course. First, I said, well, I don't know anything about it, but I got a young guy who I'm working with, Phillim Pete Die, who I think i'd like to work with. So I did that. I made I made twenty three visits into that trip with with with

with Pete. Uh. About six months before the Turban, they came and told so, we're gonna have the Heritage Golf Classic there, which they've had there ever since since nineteen sixte Arnold won the first tournament. Um, I loved it. I had a ball. I was just tremendous. So I'm talking about golf course. Is your favorite course to play of any other than the ones who might have designed. I assume that there's the ones who liked the most. Absolutely know who's your favorite child? You know what, the

same thing. But let's suppose take the ones you didn't sign. Which ones would you say were your favorites to play? Well, if I had one round of golf player, I'd probably got to Pebble Beach, which we just left the US Open last week. I love Pebble Beaches, the scene out there. I won the U s Amitar there, won the US Open. There went three three Crosbie's out there, and I just I just love the place. And then and then, but my two favorite places in the game are probably Augusta

National and St. Andrews. When you finished your professional career, I think it was two thousand five, your last tournament was the British Open. So was that pretty pretty emotional? Oh yeah, yeah, I had you had your family there and had the family there, They're all there. My son Steve keddy for me during that week, and uh, we stopped on what's called the Silkin Bridge, which is the bridget trosses An eighteenth fairway, and we we didn't get a decent picture of Steve. Steve was crying too much

and Tom Watson was he's crying. I mean all they're all emotional. I'm trying to figure out how to finish the golf tournament. They're they're crying on me. And so we a great time though, and it was fun. I loved it. I would not I didn't want to finish on Friday, but I did finish on Friday, So you your last shot was a birdie. You know, It's kind of funny because yeah, I wanted to make the cut

that day. And after I threw put it from the front edge of thirteen or seventeen trying to make bertie, I got to the eighteen pole and I hit the ball at about fourteen feet behind the hole. Now, the poll had not gotten anywhere near the whole all day, and I knew that that put because the tournament was over. I did no matter where I hit it, the hole was going to move in front of it. And that's

what it did. That made my last put. I started my my professional or my career in major championships in nineteen seven with a birdie on the first hole I played, and I finished it on St. Andrews with a fourteen foot put with the bertie. So after you got a birdie, you said, well, maybe I should stay a little bit longer and play at I stayed long enough, David. So, you've played with many prominent individuals over the years, and

prominent golfers. If you could pick any golfer to be your partner in a twosome, who would you want to have as your partner? Um, well, I think I'll have to pick Tiger today. But through the years, you know, I never got to play with Bobby Jones, even though I know him and new him and really really really loved the band. I would have loved to have played with Jones, and I would have loved I played quite

a bit of golf with Hogan. Hogan was fantastic. You've also played a lot of presidents of the United States. I've played with a few, and um, which one is the best? And playing golf? Well, the ones I've played with, actually Trump is probably the best player. Trump plays pretty well, you know, he he plays a little bit like I do. He doesn't really ever finish many holes, but he can hit the ball and he just he goes out and plays and it just enjoys it. And but he's won

several club championships and uh, he could play. Uh Gerald Ford I played, I mus played fifty rounds with Ford. I used to play with him at the A T and T every year. And Ford was about a thirteen handicap, but he played to a thirteen handicap. Uh. Clinton, I never knew what Clinton might do. Clinton would he might play to a play with ten or he might play to a thirty. But but he had a nice sculfs way and he enjoyed. All these guys enjoyed playing golf.

And I don't think any one of them really were very serious about the game, but they all enjoyed playing. And I think that it's good for the game of golf to have the President of the United States say, you know, this is my game. So when you're playing in those kind of matches, let's say, are fun with the president, and let's say the ball is ten feet away from the whole, Why do people just not say put it out as opposed to, oh, you can have it.

Why is that done so much? You just say, I think that's a little bit of courtesy or well, that's a little bit of politics. Took think you give me mine if I give you, I'll give you. I give you yours if you give me mine. That kind of routine, which is not golf. Now you have a grandson who recently had a Master's Part three tournament got a hold on one. Was that a fairly emotional thing to see

your grandson get a hold on one? Pretty good? You know, it's kind of a funny story because it's his name is g. T which is Gary Thomas after his father. He's a junior and we're playing, Uh we went out and playing nine holes and uh, I said I always asked the kids because they have a different one caddy for me every year. The Master's turn says, do you want to uh, do you want to hit the ball? And he says, well, none of my cousins have ever gotten it on the green. I said, well okay, I said, yeah.

He said, I'd love to hit a balls. Okay, so fine. So he I said, well, if you're not knocking on greeny Mays will make a home one. He said okay. So he saw with his dad was the masters did it on Tuesday? United said, he says people, people, He says people thinks I'm gonna make a hole in one. He says, really, yeah, he I'm knocking to greyways. Don't make a hole. Darner for next day knocks it right

in the hole. And you know Gary Players who is actually named after Gary, my son Gary, because Gary was such a great friend and such a great role model. And uh, Gary was jumping all over the place. Tom Watson was jumping all over the place. So when players are playing golf and they're in a tournament, you're so you're paired with somebody act the talk during when you're walking down the fair way, they talk her. I thought something. They didn't even talk to each other. Oh no, no,

the guys are good friends. Arnold and I had had a fierce rivalry and we wanted I mean we we blew more tournaments for ourselves, trying to beat each other and worrying about the feeling. But we get off the golf course and we look at it. We said, hey, we did it again. We both shot seventy five. Well, everybody else shot sixty five, but just the two of us trying to beat each other. But they would shake hands and say, Okay, were you going to dinner tonight?

You know? So you know that's that's. I love the golf kids today. I mean I love watching Uh. When Gary Woodland finished, and I don't see on television, but he saw four or five of the other players or six were out congratulating. But Justin Thomas won the PGA two years ago, Ricky Fowler and Jordan's Speed were waiting for him as he finished on the eighteen screen. The guys really support each other, and and there and and they've got enough money. They're not worried about the money.

They know it's a game and those guys are their friends and they enjoy it. So UH. In recent years, Tiger Woods has struggled a bit, for he went ten years between winning UH a major tournament. UM. Do you think today that your record of eighteen UM majors can be broken by Tiger or by anybody? I think so kept because going He's gonna do it. Before Tiger, I felt like I remember the last one the Tiger went part of this was was it Tory Pines in San Diego ten years ago? And Tiger hit it all over

the place and won the tournament. Now he has he had he had had back fusion, and his swing is much better now that it was. That he now learned not to hit it hard because he doesn't want to hurt himself. And Tiger's short game is fantastic. Tiger is going to win a lot more tournaments. One of these going to win you know, three or four more major tournaments. I don't know, but Tiger's forty three in the game of golf today is not very old. So let's talk

a moment about philanthropy. I'd like to talk about how you and your wife had decided to focus a lot of your philanthropy on children's hospitals. Well, we started, David back with my daughter. Nineteen sixty six, our daughter Nan was eleven months old and she started choking and we never couldn't understand why. We get her to the doctor and she'd be fine. We're finding the doctors and we've got to get this gal down to the children's hospital.

Went down to the Columbus Children's Hospital now Nationwide Children's Hospital, and uh, they found a crayon at her windpipe and they didn't have how in the world it did, but they didn't have a pediatric bronchoscope, and they went down with an adult broncoscope broke the crayon up, dropped in her lungs. She got pneumonia. She's for about six days.

She was, you know, touch and go. And as Barbara and I were sitting waiting for Nan, whenever was gonna happen, we just said, uh, you know, if we ever are in a position to help others, we wanted to be children. And then fifteen years ago, the Honda Tournament moved up from UH four are Deal to the Palm Beach area and felt named Fred Millsaps came to me ran the charities.

He said, Jack, what what are you having this area for children's charities, and I looked at Barbara's as you want to go for it, and she said, go for it. So we started our foundation with then and we've been the main beneficiary from Honda and several other events and so forth, and we haven't really done anything large, but we raised a little over a hundred million dollars in the last fifteen years. Pretty pretty good. Now the university, so the Miami City Children's Hospital has been renamed in

your honor. They went back Miami was Miami Children's and we made association with Miami Children's and after a couple of years I came back to us and they said, you know, we'd like to be a global hospital, so we'd like to use the Nicholas name. And it's fantastic to see to see what's happened with these kids. And I want to tell you one thing, it's far more important than a four ft put and then and I enjoy it a lot more. You enjoyed in other ways.

This satisfaction of winning the Masters is it's fantastic, But the satisfaction of saving a child's life is unbelievable. Well, it's been a great life and a great uh inspiration for so many Americans and people around the world. Thank you for everything you've done for the golf world and for our country and for philanthropy. Thank you well, David, Thank you for having much for sire. Okay, thanks very much, thank you so much. Thank you