Brandie Smith

There's a great deal of excitement in Washington these days, but perhaps the greatest excitement is the arrival of two pandas from China. I had a chance recently to sit down with Brandy Smith, who oversees the National Zoo and oversees the panda program as well, to talk to her about the pandas. Now we're in the Panda house because pandas have returned to the National Zoo. Why are pandas so popular? I think I read that about eighty percent of the people that come to the National Zoo come

I think there are a lot of reasons. I think, first of all, they're cute. They're adorable. People just want to see them. And the thing I love about pandas is the way that they're built. It actually, we are genetically designed to love pandas. They have these round features, the round ears, the round eyes, these cute voices, and what we ping when we see a baby is the same thing that pings when we see a panda, and

When did you get the new pandas?

So these pandas came in October of twenty four, so just a few months ago.

And how old are they.

They're both three years old. The pandas are here not just because they're adorable, but they're actually part of a breeding program that's helping to save the species. And so we wanted to get the most genetically valuable animals, and we narrowed it down to a few pairs. But I will say we sent a veterinarian to China just to check the records of the different animals, and we did ask them to pick the cutest pair.

As I recall when Richard Nixon went to China when the famous trip in the early nineteen seventies as a gift, Malzi Tung said, here are to pandas, and they came to the National Zoo, and at that time, I think they were the only pandas in the United States they were.

At that time. That was really the start of the giant panda conservation program as we know it.

They were gifts to the country. And subsequent to that, China, as I understand it, began a program of lending pandas or renting pandas to zoos around the world. And I thought I read that there were like twenty seven zoos or something like that around the world that have pandas. Is that how it works.

We received the first pandas they were a state gift, and then there was the loan program that was to other zoos, and as part of that program, there's a conservation fee that zoos pay to China to the panda breeding centers in China, and the pandas that we have now are part of that breeding program.

Was it easy to get the pandas to come back to Washington, d C. Did the Chinese say, we have some extra pandas, we don't know what to do with them, we're going to give them to you.

Well, it was a little more difficult than that. It probably took us. It was about over the course of a year where we had conversations with our colleagues in China and we were able to get pandas here very quickly. I think it's a testament to the relationship we've built over decades, to the conservation success that we've had here with our pandas and our panda program. And so it was a lot of conversations, but I think we always knew in the end that we did want pandas at the National Zoo.

How big is the National Zoo? How many acres do you have here?

So we have two facilities. We have the zoo, which is in Washington, d c. It's one hundred and seventy five acres in Rock Creek Park. And then we also have a facility called our Conservation Biology Institute, and that's thirty two hundred acres and it's in front Royal, Virginia.

Now, when I was a little boy growing up in Baltimore, we had a zoo there and that still exists. But the animals always seem to be in big cages. They didn't seem to be able to roam around that much. Now, my understanding is that people that are in charge of zoos let animals have more freedom and more space than they used to. But what about the argument that some people say it's not nice to have zoos at all,

I love that question because it's asked by people who care deeply about animals. And so I'll answer in two parts, And one is the emotional part about about animals and zoos. And I always, you know, I think about people who have pets. Right, people get pets. The most of them aren't trained to care for them. They don't know that much. They bring them to their house, they have them in their apartment, you know, go for walks every so often. But they know those animals are cared for. They know

So what is other than pandas. Who are the biggest attraction or what are the biggest attraction at the National Zoo?

You know people, we call them the charismatic megafauna. People love the big animals, the pandas, elephants, lions, tigers, cheetahs. But one fact that I think is really funny, the most searched animal on our website are snakes, and so I don't know if people are searching them because they want to see them or if they're searching them because they're afraid to see them.

Let's go back and talk about the pandas because they're so popular and obviously you get a lot of visitors because of that. So where do pandas come from? Why is it only in one place, as I understand it, where pandas are. You've got two hundred countries in the world, Why only one country has pandas.

So that's just the area they are indigenous to, kind of the cool mountain forests in China, So that's the habitat that sustains them the best. And pandas Actually they're obligate bamboo eaters. If they don't eat bamboo they'll get sick. So they're very heavily dependent upon having the appropriate habitat.

Now, originally pandas, which were maybe a couple million years old, we think they used to have a meat diet, as I understand they were carnivores, but then maybe five hundred thousand years ago they became herbivores. So I don't know if that's easy to deal with your stomach. But because they only eat vegetables or non meat, do they have enough nutrition to get through the day.

A lot of people don't realize this pandas are. They're taxonomically their carnivores, and they are bears. They are true bears, and they have evolved to take advantage of a more plentiful resource. They don't have to chase down their food. It pretty much just grows up around them as they fit there. So they've evolved special adaptations to be able to consume bamboo as quickly as possible. But what it

And if you eat one hundred pounds of food, which is bamboo every day, one hundred pounds a day. Doesn't that take a lot of energy? And does that mean that they sleep a lot? Because they use up a lot of energy.

Eating they do, they're digesting, so they spend their times. I feel like a panda's life is eating, sleeping, and playing. So I also think we love pandas because they're living like our best lives. And so it's so fun to watch them because sometimes you'll see a panda just, you know, bowing through bamboo leaves and they'll actually stop for a second, and you think it almost looks like they're taking a little mini naps. They digest their bamboo before they just keep eating more.

Now when they pick up the bamboo, and you grow your own bamboo, right, you don't bring it in from China. You grow it somewhere in the National Zoo Area.

We actually grow. So we have the facility in Virginia thirty two hundred acres. We do a lot of our research there. All of our labs are there for all of the conservation and science work that we do, but we also grow. We grow all of our own hey, our own alfalfa, and our bamboo as well.

Now panda bear has like we have fingers, Panda bear seems to have like a six finger help them pick up the bamboo. Is that an evolutionary trick or something to help them pick up bamboo.

It's not really a thumb. It's a modified wristbone that actually almost it's a flexible wristbone that functions almost like a thumb as they hold Think about as they hold on to bamboo, because bamboo's circular, so if you watch them, it looks like they're holding on and it's part of that evolution from being instead of investing in being a better predator right and being able to chase down their meat, they invested evolutionarily and being the best bamboo eater you can imagine.

Now, there's a problem that pandas have in that there's so few of them. It was for a long time that panders were thought to be an endangered species. Now they're called vulnerable. But how many pandas are there in the entire world.

So this is incredible because this is all due to this panda program, and this is so important. So when we started with giant pandas fifty years ago, there were fewer than a thousand pandas in the world. Right, we're talking in the wild and ze fewer than a thousand and decades later, there are close to two thousand pandas in the wild. Now, actually you think a little over eighteen hundred. There are over seven hundred pandas in breeding centers.

It's still a small number of pandas, it's.

A small number. But what we're also doing, and this is what I love about the Panda program. People come here, they see the pandas, they're cute, it's great. But when they contribute, when they buy a stuffed panda or a T shirt or something, they are actually funding our conservation efforts. So not only are we breeding pandas, not only are we learning more about giant pandas, but we're saving their

Now. One of the problems that pandas have and the reason they're so few, is that their ability to reproduce is the most limited, it seems, are the most challenging in the entire animal world. So I think the female panda can reproduce only a short period of time, maybe one day a year or something like that. So the male has to show up at the right time, right, and how does that work?

Well, it's actually really interesting. So the males. The female has a very narrow window where she's reproductively viable, but the males go through something called rut, so it's much longer. So basically for months that could overlap multiple females estrus. The males are basically they're looking for a mate, so they are they're scent marking, they're patrolling, they're covering a

So many VIPs I soon call you up and say I'd like to come bring my grandchildren, my children. I want to come myself to see pantas. You get a lot of that.

So there are a lot of people who want to see giant pandas. And the thing I love the most is we are part of the Smithsonian and so everyone, no matter how VIP you are, you can come here. You can see giant pandas for free.

Let me ask you how one becomes the head of the National Zoo. Let's talk about your background.

So where did you grow up in Indiana, Pennsylvania. It's in western Pennsylvania, small town we had. I had a rural delivery address and most of my relatives are coal miners.

So when you were growing up and you're a little girl, did you play with dolls or do you play with pandas?

I didn't have pandas, so stuffed animals, and you know, our neighbors had cows, so I'd always go over and you know, you know, feed the cows, and you know, see my friends who worked at who lived on farms.

So you told your parents you want to be a National Zoo director? How did you let your parents know that you wanted to be are you? Are you trained as a zoologist?

So I actually I was a young girl interested in science, you know, in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania, and I thought that if you wanted to be a scientist, that meant you were a doctor. And I thought that was my only career path. And I actually got it. My undergraduate degree is in biology, and you know, I thought about it and I thought, this isn't what I

Okay, so you get this internship and you obviously must have liked it. So then what happened?

I always tell people I never made a smart career choice in my life, so I always just kind of followed my heart, and I did the internship at the zoo. The thing I love about zoos is not just that they educate and inspire people, but they are unique conservation organizations. There are species that exist on the planet today because of zoos, because we care for animals and can breathe them. Blackfooted ferret, Panamaanian golden frog, simitar horned rigx, California conders.

All right, so you've got your PhD in zoology.

It's a program at University of Maryland. It's called behavior, Ecology, Evolution and Systematics.

So and then you get a job immediately there after at the National Zoo.

Well, actually I had a job. I was the head of conservation and science for an organization called the Association of Zoos and Aquariums. So we set kind of conservation goals for zoos, accredited zoos across the country. It's an office, it's an association, and I just really missed. I missed being in a zoo. I missed the animals. We create magic for people on a daily basis, and I missed being part of that.

So how many zoos are there in the United States?

So there are about twenty five hundred licensed animal exhibitors in the United States, But then there's also an accrediting program by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, and I think under two hundred and fifty zoos are accredited, So less than ten percent of zoos in the country are accredited, and those are the best of the best.

So the most famous in the United States were the biggest. I would think leaving the National Zoo a side is the San Diego Zoo Is that the biggest? Actually?

So, I do think it's the most well known zoo. A lot of people are very familiar with that zoo.

Over the years the National Zoo is not the only zoo in the United States that's had pandas, right, and so I thought there were at one point four San Diego, Memphis, Atlanta, and Washington. They still have.

Them now as part of the loan program started at roughly the same time, so a lot of the pandas were kind of moving through in cohorts, and so a lot of zoos in the past two or three years their pandas were older and returned to China. And so right now only the National Zoo and the San Diego Zoo have giant pandas.

So go back and finish up on your career. So you're working at this association and you now say, I really want to be with animals directly. So then did you apply to the National Zoo.

Yeah, there was an opening for a general curator. It was more of a curator of mammals, and it was also the curator of giant pandas. And so my story actually came full circle because when I got the job here and I was in charge of the giant pandas, my mother was so proud.

Did she come to visit the pandas? Ever?

Oh right away?

So all right, So then you were the head of the mammal program, including that the pandas. When did you become the head of the National Zoo itself the whole head?

At first I was essentially curator of mammals and curator of giant pandas, and then after a few years I became the head of Animal Care, so I saw all of the animals, the veterinarians, nutrition, wrecords, behavior, all of the departments. And then eventually I became deputy director, and then a few years later I became director.

So if you walk around and did she the pandas, did they recognize you?

It is one of the saddest movements of my life. When I was curator of giant pandas and I was here all of the time, the pandas knew who I was. They recognized me or at least my voice, and I could call their name and they would show an interest. But as director, I don't. I'm not with them every day. I'm not the ringer food and love and happiness.

So today, how many different species do you have at the National Zoo?

We have about three thousand animals from about three hundred different species.

And how many professionals do you have working here.

At both locations. We've got about four hundred people.

And how many people come a year to the National Zoo.

So just under two million people come every year. And we actually we only had one year without Giant Pandas, and what we noticed was that our attendants actually dropped twenty percent when Giant pandas weren't here.

What did you do when COVID came? Nobody showed up?

Then, right, we didn't have any visitors, but we had to keep working. So if we're responsible for the living collection, I'll actually never forget that moment because the world is closing down because of COVID. And our team gathered in our line in Tiger Building and the offices there have this kind of bunker like feel, and we were there and we said, okay, what do we do? And everyone's concern. The concern wasn't I can't go home. The concern was what happens if I get sick and I can't take

Now does a China say if you have two pandas that they've rented to you, and there's a baby panda that they owned the baby panda, or do you own the baby panda?

So they own all pandas. But this is a good thing because the majority of pandas live in China. And so again we're not producing pandas just because we went to although it's wonderful. These pandas are all part of a conservation program. So if a cub was here and it grew up here, it can't breed with its parents, and so the cub returns to China so that it can be part of the breeding program.

When a baby is let's say, has some fur and can see and hear, a human can pick that baby up, right, I mean, let's say in a zoo or a control setting, you're allowed to pick up a panda a small a size. But is that right?

We do wellness checks on the cubs soon after they're born, so we do actually get hands on our giant pandas just to make sure they're doing fine and they're healthy and everything's okay.

After a panda is what size? Is it not possible for a zoo keeper to actually be in the cage alone with them because they're bears and it could be dangerous.

So it's actually usually when they're about a year old, they hit about one hundred pounds, and that's the time when they start to get they're not predators. They're not going to see you as food, right, they don't see you as a threat. But even if they just do right, they've got strong jaws. They've got sharp claws, so an animal could inadvertently hurt you even without trying.

It probably went into a panda, you know place right now, like here where the pandas are, and there they is now weigh three hundred pounds. Would that be dangerous And it.

Would be and not because again they're not predators, so they wouldn't see you as food. It wouldn't look like a tasty treat if you walked in, but they would think. They could think that you're a toy. They could think that we're something that we gave to them just to play with their jaws. Their bite force actually equals that of a lion or tiger. So if they wanted to play with you, they've got the claws, they got the teeth, they got the strength. They could do some damage.

So let's talk about the pandacam for a moment. You have a camera that watches pandas twenty four hours a day.

I think people really enjoy watching the pandacam because they're seeing them how we watch them. We decided we're going to do something a little bit different this year because it's not just people in the United States, but people around the world are watching the pandacam. We want to do it during the daytime, you know, during the twelve hours during the day when people are when you know, the pandas are awake, when keepers are interacting with them.

Have you thought about selling advertising on your pandacam.

We are Smithsonians Nationals Zoo, and so we receive about sixty percent of our funding from the federal government, and as such, we want to make sure that we are open and available to every single person who wants to see tiant pandas and not necessarily be assailed by by ads.

So sixty percent of your funding comes from the federal government. The other forty percent just falls out of the sky. Where does that come from?

Well, we're really fortunate, you know, we were talking about the pandacam and so Boeing sponsors our pandacams their corporations to help splonster us. We have some incredibly generous donors who support us through philanthropy, and we also generate revenue. And so when people come here, they come to the zoo,

So if somebody wants to know something about the National Zoo, and you've got two or three sentences, you can give them. What is a summary of at the National Zoo, Why is it so great? And why should somebody visit the National Zoo.

National Zoo is part of Smithsonian. We are free, we are open and welcome to everyone. And when you come here, you are not just seeing the animals, You are not just having an incredible time that will stay with you and your family, through the rest of your lives. You are part of our conservation success.

Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.