Vice President Kamala Harris conceded the presidential election yesterday. She called Donald Trump and conceded privately and then she gave a speech, she gave a speech in Washington, DC around 4.34 p.m. Eastern and it shouldn't be notable, it really should be no big deal. But it is a big deal that she conceded the election without claiming that there was fraud.
She conceded the election without alleging that it was rigged. She conceded the election without saying that the media and the opposite party and election officials and law enforcement and voting and election monitors conspired against her in a nearly impossible to pull off multi-point conspiracy. She somehow got through the speech without inciting a riot or suggesting that she would incite a riot. And this would normally be something that we don't even mention.
But it's notable because of the alternative. Of course, Donald Trump doing all of those things in 2020 and even claiming fraud this time around until it became clear that he would win. Now we're going to get to that. I say sarcastically, thank God that there was no fraud this time around. Right. We'll get to that a little bit later. Here is Kamala Harris saying we have no choice but to accept the results of the election. Of course, there is a choice. There's doing what
Trump did last time. But reasonable people don't have a choice. Here is Kamala Harris. Now I know folks are feeling and experiencing a range of emotions right now. I get it. But we must accept the results of this election. Earlier today, I spoke with President Elect Trump and congratulated him on his victory. I also told him that we will help him and his team with their transition and that we will engage in a peaceful transfer of power.
It's almost like sarcastic applause. It's almost like tongue in cheek cheer because we all know that if the results had been different, Donald Trump would not be saying anything like this. Of course, he wouldn't be participating in a transfer of power since he wouldn't be involved in it because he's not in office right now. But Trump would not be saying, well, I lost and you've got to accept the results. You win some. You lose some and sniffing. He would have been sniffing,
but he wouldn't have said any of those things. Kamala Harris, it's a bizarre upside down world. Then I know that the last couple of days have been tough and I don't know that this is much. I don't know that we can take much solace in this, but it's an upside down world when the normality comes from the candidate that lost simply saying, I lost that that's it. It's not let's find fake electors. It's not let's threaten people on the phone with phrases about 11,000 votes.
I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. It's just we're going to participate in what we need to participate in. Kamala Harris also adding that she concedes the election, but she doesn't concede the fight. And I think that this was probably as good a way that this sentiment could be put given the circumstances. While I concede this election, I do not concede the fight that fueled
this campaign. The fight, the fight for freedom, for opportunity, for fairness, and the dignity of all people, a fight for the ideals at the heart of our nation, the ideals that reflect America at our best. You know, I felt about this speech both that it was the right speech at the right time, showing that she's not going to stoop to what Republican stoop to over the last four years.
But also I couldn't help but feel that the speech was also representative of sort of why Kamala Harris lost in that there was a lot of generic pie in the sky without necessarily offering the tangible vision for what's next that I think a lot of people need. But in her defense, it's tough to do right now. I mean, I tried to do it yesterday. We still lost 10,000 YouTube subscribers, 200 paid members, 400 subreddit followers, a thousand followers on Twitter,
2000 on Facebook. I'm not saying, Oh, pity me. I'm saying this is happening. The mightest touch guys lost 30,000 YouTube subscribers yesterday. Brian Tyler Cohen lost 10,000. Our friend Jesse Dullamore lost the bunch. You know, all this is public information. There is a despondency that makes sense. And we need to do what is best for our mental health, but we also need to do what's best for our communities and what's best for our friends and family and children and grandchildren.
And right. So in that sense, there was some good stuff from Kamala Harris, including sort of a request or a suggestion that people not despair. To the young people who are watching, it is, I love you. To the young people who are watching, it is okay to feel sad and disappointed, but please know it's going to be okay. On the campaign, I would often say, when we fight, we win. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Sometimes the fight takes a while. That doesn't mean we won't win. That doesn't
mean we won't win. The important thing is don't ever give up. Don't ever give up. Don't ever stop trying to make the world a better place. You have power. You have power. And don't you ever listen when anyone tells you something is impossible because it has never been done before. So a fine speech, a mixed bag, a really difficult time for those for the half of the country that did not vote for Donald Trump. And I don't know that anything really cuts through to the
core of the situation more than when they lose, they immediately bring up the fight. And unless we do the same, when we're ready, I'm not saying it has to be today. Do what needs to be done for mental health. But if when they lose, they double the fight, we have to figure out what is the next step. And it can't just be saying, bye-bye because then everybody loses. Setting finalizing the speech, Kamala Harris wrapping up in a typical fashion. There's an adage and historian once called
a law of history. By the way, Anne historian, interesting. So we have another in the bucket of it is Anne historian. True of every society across the ages. The adage is only when it is dark enough. Can you see the stars? I know many people feel like we are entering a dark time. But for the benefit of us all, I hope that is not the case. But here's the thing, America, if it is,
let us fill the sky with the light of a brilliant, brilliant, billion of stars. The light, the light of optimism, of faith, of truth, and service. A Jew. And made that work guide us even in the face of setbacks toward the extraordinary promise of the United States of America. I thank you all. May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America. I thank you. So to be totally transparent in a normal world, this speech is a six.
The fact that there was not even any doubt as to whether she would be conceding or starting to incite riots or whatever the case may be, that certainly does count for something. We now must deal with our FK wanting to end water, fluoridation and much more. We'll get to that a little bit later. That's the situation in which we find ourselves. You know, we've many of us have said it might be nice for George W. Bush to come out and say something like, hey, you know what? It's probably not a good
idea to vote for Donald Trump, even though I'm a Republican. George W. Bush didn't do it. Many of us, not because we thought it would necessarily be dispositive, but because we thought it would be the right thing to do. I've been saying, you know, Romney said he's not voting for him and we have this list of growing list of Republicans, Dick Cheney, et cetera. What about George W. Bush? Well, George W. Bush has finally put out a statement and he put it out after Donald Trump won. And I'll
be honest, it's pretty damn pathetic. George W. Bush putting out the following statement. And I quote, I congratulate President Trump on his election as 47th president of the United States of America, as well as vice president elect JD Vance and their families. I also thank President Biden and vice president Harris for their service to our country. The strong turnout in this election is a sign of the health of our republic and the strength of our democratic institutions. By the
way, that's simply not true. Trump seems to have gotten a little bit more in terms of total vote than 2020 and Harris significantly less than Biden. By all accounts, turnout went down. We had weaker turnout. I don't see strong turnout here. I see weak turnout. Okay. Who cares about the facts, right? George W. Bush continuing. Laura and I are grateful to the election officials, poll workers and volunteers who oversaw a free fair, safe and secure election. We join our fellow
citizens in praying for the success of our new leaders at all levels of government. May God continue to bless our great country. You can't help but feel that it's too little too late. And at this point, I mean, listen, one of the things we did learn is if Josh Shapiro had been the VP nominee, Harris still wouldn't have won. Okay. If, uh, you know, if Biden had stayed, he still wouldn't have won. If George W. Bush had come out and endorsed Kamala Harris,
she still wouldn't have won. It's not about that. But there is something particularly feckless and pathetic about Bush, you know, he hands candies to Michelle Obama and he talks about, uh, you know, in sort of coded language, how Trump's really not his cup of tea. But then silence until Trump's the president elect. It's feeling pathetic to me. Let me know if, uh, if my feelings are out of line. Well, one of the things that we suspected was that Donald Trump saw winning
as a way to keep himself out of prison. And it seems at least to some degree that he was right. Sometimes they're right. You've got to hand it to Trump. It seems as though he's going to keep himself out of prison because he won. NBC reports the DOJ is moving to wind down Donald Trump's criminal cases. The federal ones, of course, not this doesn't relate to the state cases.
They are going to wind down Trump's criminal cases before he takes office. The reporting adds the step complies with longstanding justice department policy that a sitting president can't be prosecuted according to two people familiar with the matter. Let me remind you the word policy is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. It's more of a tradition. It's more of a convention that the DOJ does not prosecute a sitting president. The word policy seems to go pretty far beyond reality.
And just like that poof like a miracle, remember when Trump said, COVID's just going to go away in April of 2020 with nobody dying like a miracle. Well, that didn't happen. But just like that, the Department of Justice's federal prosecutions of Donald Trump go put and the possibility of consequences to Trump for his rampant criminality are no more. The law doesn't apply apparently to Republicans anymore despite their continued claims that they are the party of law in order.
And it is law-breaking scofflaw Democrats who flout the law within punity. Happens to be the opposite of what they say. So there, listen, there's a lot of bad news here. Okay. We saw yet again a clueless cognitively declining demagogue become the president-elect. We are going to see, I know I keep going back to it, it's because it's so disturbing. We are going to see potentially Robert F. Kennedy Jr. take charge of overseeing a number of different medical organizations in the United States.
The possibility of holding Trump accountable at the federal level has evaporated and he will not be held accountable. There is no doubt that there is a lot of bad stuff going on here. And the choices are we let it all happen and more unopposed or we get in the fight. And the fight is going to include that even if Robert F. Kennedy Jr. gets put in a position of power by Trump medically, there are still many things we can do, which we will talk about later on
in the show and with members of Congress upcoming and a lot of different things. So I think that it's important even to strategize to understand the full scope of everything that is going wrong. Trump is not going to be held accountable. That's a disaster. Clueless people are going to be put in positions way over their heads. Elon Musk, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Maybe Alina Haba, who the hell knows.
It's all going to be bad. And in understanding how bad it can be, we are going to realize this stuff really does matter and to the 50, 40, 50 percent of the country that goes, I don't even vote. I just don't think any of this stuff matters. We are quickly going to see just how much it matters. And then we will figure out what it is that we want to do. So let's take a break. Thank you to the hundreds who preordered my book yesterday. This is so crazy.
Somehow my forthcoming book, you know, there's a lot of people are disengaging after the election results. Somehow after this disastrous election, my forthcoming book, the Echo Machine, has jumped to number one in the democracy category on Amazon and number two in the fascism category on Amazon right behind our friend Ruth Ben Giaz book. This is absolutely insane. The book is still in preorder. So thank you to the hundreds. I don't even have final numbers. Hundreds at least who
preordered the book yesterday. We're going to keep moving forward. And the show continues in just a moment. I spend a lot of my day in front of screens and sitting for long periods has been linked to poor heart health, bad posture, diabetes. The list goes on. And this is one of the many reasons I started using an uplift standing desk many years ago, long before they became a sponsor. I stand when I'm doing work at the desk. I sit to film and it's all on the same adjustable desk.
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giving my audience up to $300 off plus four free accessories. When you go to uplift desk.com slash Pacman, that's UPLIFT desk.com slash Pacman for up to $300 off and you get four desk accessories totally free. The link is in the podcast notes. In a recent interview before the election, Trump said that he didn't think his supporters would cause problems after the election, but that the left would saying the left is the enemy from within and might be needed to be handled by the national guard.
The Washington Times reported this interview with the headline, Trump says, no chaos from his supporters this election day, which totally white washes and sane washes what Trump actually said. Luckily, we have ground news, the app and website that provides context on every story like for this Trump interview, ground news provides more context like Trump's defense secretary said, we should believe Trump when he says he wants to use the military against Americans because that's what he wanted to
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continue to be primarily supported by our viewers through the membership program. Now the bad news is and this does bring me no joy that in the last sort of 24 hours, a hundred, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400. Okay. About 400 and people subscribed, but sadly and very, very tragically, 200 canceled. We talked yesterday about what's going on. There's no reason to be
labored again, but what I will say is thanks to the folks who are signing up. You can use the coupon code not again, not again at join Pacman.com to get a 75% discount off of the cost of a membership. Thank God that there was no voter fraud in 2024. It would have been terrible if there was voter fraud this time, wouldn't it? Of course, I'm being completely sarcastic with Donald Trump.
It's did he win or was it rigged? I want to introduce this topic with video of Golden State Warriors basketball head coach Steve Kerr who had the same idea and said, I'm just glad there was no voter fraud this time because that would have been really terrible. Here's Steve Kerr. I mean, I hope you don't have a country that knows. Well, I believe in democracy and I think American people have spoken and voted for Trump and wanted to do well in the next four years.
I want a country to do well. So I'm just thankful that there wasn't any voting fraud this time. It's last time, I mean, all those illegal immigrants who crashed the border, raped and murdered people and then voted six times. That was unfortunate, but thankfully this time everything was clean. So it's great that every election has been really valid except for that last one four years ago. So twinkle in my eye as I say that in case you couldn't see it. I think you all get the point.
Now it almost, you know, the day before the election, Donald Trump started with the, there's fraud in Pennsylvania. Law enforcement is coming out. Detroit is calling out police because what's going on at the polling places is clearly not okay. And then all of a sudden, it looked like Trump was going to win not a word, not a word about voter fraud. I do want to point out that while 99% of us recognize that there was not voter fraud, there are little bits and pieces.
There's one particular Twitter thread that my attention was pointed to from a user named who goes by spring trap, which I encourage you to read through it. It makes a whole bunch of different claims about the number of votes, the order of counting how certain states could have been called so quickly presenting so-called evidence of fraud. I looked through it. I simply don't
see it. Okay. Now there are people who wrote to me and they are angry and they are saying, David, when we have 20 years now or not 20, 12 years, certainly since Romney ran against Obama, we have 12 years now of Republicans making it harder for people to vote, closing polling places, purging voter rolls, all of these different things. How can you say that there wasn't fraud? And I think we on the left have to be really careful with this because these are two different
things. I have covered as much as anyone, the efforts from Republicans to make it tougher to vote, mostly unsuccessful efforts for various voter ID schemes, shutting down polling places, voter purges, etc. But I can't honestly tell you in looking at the results that the purge of 4,600 voters in Virginia, some of whom actually should have been removed because they moved elsewhere. And part of those, of course, would be Harris voters, some of them would be Trump voters.
I can't say that that is fraud of the style that summer alleging took place in 2020 from the Trump campaign. So I am right there with everybody saying it needs to be easier to vote. We need more automatic voter registration. I've got a list of 20 points when it comes to my make it easier to vote plan, but we need to be very careful that those beliefs which apply to all elections aren't going to be taken as an opportunity from these Trumpians to go, you guys are alleging
the same thing we alleged in 2020. No, we are not. No, we are not. I looked at, you know, on the Friday show, some people wrote to me and said, Oh, you know, David, it's the Muslim vote in Michigan is what lost it for Harris. I looked at the numbers. I don't see that. So let's really stick to the facts and the facts are there was not voter fraud of the kind that Donald Trump alleged in 2020. He genuinely lost 2020 and there similarly is not anything like that type of voter fraud in 2024.
Harris genuinely lost. Now, should it be easier to vote? Absolutely. Do we need to keep fighting against these voter ID laws that are designed to make it harder for poor people who disproportionately lean democratic to vote? Yes, we have to do that. But when I say thank God, there was no voter fraud this time. Obviously, it's sarcastic. Let's not fall into the same stuff that they fall into willingly every single election. The deportations will start on day one if you believe what the people
around Donald Trump are saying. Now, will they be deportations only of undocumented immigrants? Well, that's the critical question and we're going to get to that in a moment. Donald Trump's spokesperson Caroline Levitt put out a tweet on X or I think in fact, it was Axios that quotes her on X. She said, quote, Trump will begin operations to deport millions of undocumented migrants when
he starts his term campaign press secretary Caroline Levitt said Wednesday morning. He'll launch the quote largest mass deportation operation of undocumented immigrants on day one as horrifying as this is to so many of us. If we are going to fight, if we are going to beat this back, the way it needs to be beaten back as a political movement. And that's now a question. What happens in 26? What happens in 28? If we are going to successfully beat this back, we need to understand that tens
of millions of Americans love this shit. They wanted injected into their veins. Did many people not connect with Kamala Harris in a way that inspired them to vote for her? Absolutely. A ton of them stayed home. We know this because Kamala Harris's vote totals are so dramatically below what Joe Biden's vote totals were in 2020 despite a larger American population. But there are tens of millions of Americans who it wasn't about. Do I like Kamala or not? It was about I want what
Trump's offering. I wrongly believe that inflation is still high and gas prices are still high. So I'm voting Trump. And I want to start punishing people. Yes, let's start the mass deportations even if it's just to trigger the liberals and the terrifying part of it. And this is where it starts to get very, very real and even scarier. Not that this isn't scary because remember Obama was going to put people in FEMA camps. But it is Trump who is now plotting and planning to have deportation
camps, militarized deportation camps for the mass deportations. If it was only going to go as far as undocumented immigrants, we would have one perspective, but they aren't going to stop with just the undocumented immigrants. I want to talk about that next. Byron Donalds is a Republican congressman. He's a total mega tool, a real mega-potemian if I ever saw one. And he was on MSNBC yesterday and he isn't even hiding it. They're not, they're emboldened. They are not
missing words. They are going to look at deporting legal immigrants in the United States. Legal immigrants. This isn't the first we're hearing of it, but it is certainly one of the more prominent statements about it since the election. Here's Byron Donalds. Listen to what he had to say. Young men and women recipients of DACA that have no, that know of no other country, but this one. And there is among those people and many others a palpable sense of fear for what may the future
hold for them. What is your message to those people? My message is clear. Right now under the administration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, there's been about half a million people in our country led in who are convicted of crimes. 14,000 convicted of murder. Those people are going to go home immediately. After that, then you yes, you have about another six to eight, maybe 10 million, maybe more than have come in through these wide open asylum procedures under Joe Biden and Kamala.
Harris, they've overwhelmed our cities. Now, if you want to talk about the people who've been here much longer than that, then we're going to have to get to that one as well. But this is going to be a humane process because what is inhumane is leaving our borders massively open. Did you guys hear that? Did you hear what he slipped in there? The people who are here through these asylum processes that Biden has allowed. Now, there are two critical facts about those people. Number one,
the legal framework under which they are here has existed for 30 years. It has nothing to do with Joe Biden. It has nothing to do with Kamala Harris. It dates back to either 1991 or 1993 temporary protected status. It's not anything to do with Biden. And number two, when you say people who are here through these asylum processes, they are here legally. They are here legally. Now, if their temporary protected status expires, they are no longer here legally. At this point,
they have to leave or they risk deportation. But that's not what we're talking about. When we spoke last week to Joaquin Castro, he said, well, one path forward is you just don't renew their protected status. And then you say you have to go. Okay. That's certainly something that could be made administration policy. But what Byron Donald is talking about, what Trump himself has been talking about is not non-renewal. It's we're just going to have to do something about that
protected status. Here is Trump. And I hope that my fellow Latino voters who voted for this stuff are completely confident that this is not something that has the potential to come back and affect some of their friends and family. I know for myself, they're not not family. But I certainly know people here on temporary protected status. This could affect them. They don't seem to be bluffing. Here is Trump just a couple of weeks ago saying he doesn't really buy into the concept that the
Haitian migrants are really here legally. Springfield is such a beautiful place. Have you seen what's happened to it? It's been overrun. You can't do that to people. They have to be removed. So you would revoke the temporary protected status? Absolutely. I'd revoke it and I'd bring up revoke, not allowed to expire, not change policy. He would just revoke it. It is people. Once again, we're in the Iran deal. Iran's abiding by it. Trump doesn't care. Get out, cancel it. Let's go
after Iran. Oh, so the US under Trump can't be trusted to stick to its word. Hey, we have this temporary protected status infrastructure that dates back to the early 90s. If you have it, you can trust that that's the law because again, Trump's for law and order. Nope. Trump is going to revoke it. And he says they're going to start deporting those who are here legally. This is what we're up against. And people's lives are at stake. People's livelihoods are at stake.
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off your first box plus a free item in every box. When you go to wildgrain.com slash Pacman, that's wildgrain.com slash Pacman to get $30 off and a free item in every box you receive. The link is in the podcast notes. It's great to welcome to the program today. Greg Kassar, a native Texan, son of Mexican immigrants, community organizer and democratic congressman for the 35th district in Texas, which includes both San Antonio and Austin, Texas. It's really great to have you on.
It's good to meet you. I wish it were under sort of better circumstances. The votes are still being counted as far as the House of Representatives goes. We know that Democrats have lost the Senate. We know that not by a small margin, Kamala Harris has lost the presidential election. So I want to just start with your diagnosis of what happened, depending on whether you listen to Bernie Sanders or Simone Sanders, no relation whatsoever. They just both happen to have the last name Sanders.
Very different interpretations as to what happened. Is it a candidate issue? Is it an electorate issue? Is it a messaging issue? Was it the wrong vice president? Where is your head right now on what happened? Where my head is right now is that of course, if you have a Republican party that has been entirely dominated by by MAGA, completely in bed with billionaire interests, spreading constant lies, of course you've got a formidable opponent. We can't take the blame off of them,
but that doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. So I think the question is into blame game. The question is how can the Democratic Party successfully defeat that kind of propaganda and authoritarianism and constant lies? The way for us to do it, I think, is to make sure we build
out a message that puts working people's economics first. In that way, I do think that what Senator Bernie Sanders and others have been saying for quite a while about bringing together people across geography, across race, but also frankly, across ideologies around it, working people's agenda first makes a lot of sense. Now, what I do think Senator Sanders has said, but sometimes people misunderstand or mischaracterize and I didn't hear what Simone Sanders said.
She's, I also admire and appreciate her, but what I think also can't get lost is that doesn't mean throwing civil rights or vulnerable people under the bus in the process. In fact, I think what that means is having a big tent, a huge tent on economic issues that brings together all sorts of people saying, where are the folks putting your pocketbook first that are willing to stand up to
billionaires and corporate price gougers? But we also are for civil rights. We also happen to not be bigots, but we cannot any longer, I think, have a democratic party brand that isn't first about working people and that kind of economic populism that I think is necessary to defeat the level of lies we get, not just from Donald Trump, but being pumped out by people like Elon Musk. So let's take a couple of those things kind of one by one. I do think it's hard to deny that on
the economic messaging. And most people don't know that we had what 50 all-time stock market highs during the Biden Harris administration already. I saw an interview with a voter, a bunch of young guys who said, we're voting Trump because of high gas prices when gas prices are at their post-pandemic low right now. And it's sort of a low that's been equal three or four times since the pandemic. There's a lot of like check the fact stuff that seems to be kind of failing on the economic
message. But to some of the other things you mentioned, I just saw exit polling that among those who believe abortion should be legal in most cases, among that group, they went 49% for Democrats, 49% for Republicans in this election. That seems inconceivable to me unless the propaganda is effective when Trump takes every side of abortion and says, thanks to me, Roe v Wade was overturned, but actually it's great for states to do whatever they want. But if they do want to ban it, that's
okay too. I don't know how you fight against that because 40, the pro-choice vote split 49, 49 seems inconceivable to me. And that's part of what I was trying to say right at the beginning here. In fact, is the propaganda does work? That's why they do it. Constant lying does work. Getting completely in bed with billionaires and having them spend untold amount of money. So in fear and division does work. It's the oldest trick in the authoritarian book. We're not the only country
that's dealt with this. This isn't the only time the United States says dealt with something similar to this. Of course, it's difference in the modern era. Yes. So the question isn't, hey, how did Democrats totally fall apart on this? The question is, we have to be 10 times better. And I don't have, and I don't think any of us have time to complain about the fact that that's unfair. That's the fact. We have to be so much better because we have to tell the truth. We have
to unite people. And we have to deal with fighting back against this propaganda machine. And we just have to do it. And we have to do it in this coming election because we can't continue to lose elections. And I think the way to do it is to, yes, we have to be the pro-choice party. But I believe that we lost, and you can see it in lots of states where, for example, abortion rights measures passed, or in the case of Florida, got well over 50 percent, but didn't reach the necessary 60 percent
percent threshold. Where there are certainly very pro-choice voters who said that they were going to put that in the back seat or in second place, or not prioritize it as much, because they also wanted to deal with those economic, core economic issues. And to your point about gas prices, I think that it isn't, we cannot endure winning and losing elections to people like Trump, just based on sort of one cycle to another where the gas price is or where the egg price is.
I think they're looking for who is it that's on my side on this issue. And I think that that goes beyond any economic policy. It goes beyond any one campaign's message. It has to do with the Democratic Party brand. And I think the Democratic Party brand needs to be rethought and put back together as we are on your side on these issues, whether the prices up or down, whether unemployment is up or down in these different cycles, that we're on the side of good jobs and lower prices.
And that's what people think of first when they think of the Democratic Party. And honestly, some of our own voters don't think of us that way first. And we've got to try to put that together understanding that there's a right-wing propaganda machine doing everything it can to make sure we don't sound like that. So one issue that I think is a little different along these lines, and it's very much an issue in your state of Texas relates to immigration, the Latino vote,
and mass deportations. The Texas Tribune reports that Trump got 55% of the Latino vote in Texas on Tuesday. Multiple polls show that more than half of Americans want mass deportations. They like it. It's not, I've been propagandaized too, or I don't understand. They're like, yes, I want that to happen. I think that that's a thing that that should happen. As a Latino voter myself who moved to the US legally, I want some permanent solution to DACA. I'm not interested in deportation,
camps and mass deportations like that. I did not vote for Trump and I have a particular view on this issue, but I can't ignore that I hear from other Latino voters who say, listen, I came here legally. We need the mass deportations. I just like it. Like I just want it to happen. I'm not confused. I haven't been propagandaized too. It's policy. I like. How do you win when that's
the case? Look, I believe not only that mass deportations are wrong, but I believe that and saw and experienced how just a few years ago when Donald Trump was last president and they were starting to undo basic civil rights when they were trying to push the state to be more involved in this kind of deportation and mass detention that public opinion snapped back against that kind of hatred. I don't think that voters have some kind of false consciousness and have just bought
into this. I think that we are, I think we have to recognize that people in the media and people that are in politics are also leaders. We're leaders and that isn't just propaganda. We present who the villains are. We present who the heroes are. We present what the policy solutions are. And what was very clear from not just Donald Trump, but the entire Republican party is that they recognize that there was stress in the American public. A lot of voters are stressed out. They have,
feeling wages stagnating compared to prices. See, rising housing costs. You see, worsening health care. And I do not believe that we had a consistent enough democratic party message that said, no, housing prices aren't going up because of immigrants. They're going up because of Wall Street. We didn't say clearly enough, hey, you're not dealing with stagnating wages because of immigrants. You're dealing with stagnating wages because of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.
We didn't say you're got this worsening health care issue because of immigrants. That's what we consistently heard from Donald Trump and his allies. We need to say that's because of special interests and the lobby in Washington DC and Big Pharma. So if we don't, as Democrats, point out who the villains are, then we leave the field completely open for Trump to say it's immigrants fault that things are more expensive. It's immigrants fault that you're feeling economic stress. It's
immigrants fault that the health care system's getting worse. But the fact is they have nothing to do with any of that. You can't find a reliable study in any form. And it also isn't true. It just isn't true. So your question is, how do you defeat a constant barrage of clear lies? And I think the only answer that we can have is we have to be better at pointing out and telling the truth. In a meaningful way. And I just don't think that that message got across. And we have to do
better at it. And honestly, I think our message as a Democratic party was like in 10 different places on those issues, rather than clearly calling out who the villains are and not falling into the trap of saying that maybe immigrants are sort of the villains. And I just don't think that that works. It doesn't work. In fact, it doesn't work morally. And it turned out it didn't work electorally either. There are some in my audience who think that part of the solution has to be
the Democratic party as a whole moves way to the left. These are often the folks who say Bernie would have won in 2016 and 2020 and 2024 who say that Kamala Harris sitting down all day with Liz Cheney at public events, no matter what the reason is, even if it's a defensive democracy rather than their view on abortion, it's a bad thing that kind of playing, hey, we are going to be serious on the border. Just not quite as extreme as Trump, right? There's the view that
that's all a losing policy got to go way to the left. On the other hand, there are those who say I am very much with the Democratic party on most social issues and on many economic issues. But I think that the border should be taken more seriously than maybe Kamala Harris took it. I think that crime in cities should be taken more seriously. And this to be clear is regardless of what the facts are about crime, right? We've talked about this endlessly on my program.
This is just a positioning thing. These are very different views. Move way to the left or play a little more Republican light. What do you think? I think that there is a path that isn't just on that left right spectrum. And I believe that path means really meeting voters where they are
with the truth and with a more populist and authentic sentiment. And to me, that doesn't mean that you are running way to the Republican center right or falling into sort of the traps of of being seen as working on marginal issues rather than working people's general issues. And so I do think that on issues of safety, we can't tell people, hey, just because crime is down, you just shouldn't worry about your safety anymore. We absolutely should be talking
about people's safety and taking that seriously. And I think a real way of taking it seriously, for example, in Texas, as we know that there is of course, cartel violence. But you know who the biggest pusher of cartel guns and cartel violence is? It's Republicans and people like Governor Greg Abbott here who have made it as easy as possible to get weapons of war into the hands of people without background checks. And when I meet with leaders of the Mexican government, for example,
the first thing they bring up is in immigration. It's our gun policies because the majority of the gun that they get when they bust up a cartel come from the United States and the overwhelming majority of those come from Texas. So I think we should be owning the public safety issue. But we don't have to own the public safety issue by sounding Republican. We can own the public safety issue by actually
taking the fight to those Republicans themselves on issues of immigration. I think we can say, look, immigrants are good and we're going to defend our immigrant communities and we're going to stop letting there be people treated like second and third class citizens which drive down wages for everyone. We should make sure that people who are here and have been here for 10 and 20 and 30 years are able to fully participate in society and we should have an orderly and legal and humane
situation at the border. And it's Republicans that have prevented that and we should be able to go directly at that at that issue because I'll tell you people in Texas, the overwhelming number of people I talk to, including undecided voters, they aren't at their heart upset with immigrants themselves. Of course, there are always going to be some people but overwhelmingly people just say, look, the disorder that they see is concerning to them. And so how do we have an orderly system?
Well, they would much rather see people be able to apply to be able to come here, have a legal process, have a thoughtful timeline, be able to escape devastation and add to our economy and to our culture here. I think people would buy into that but we should call into, call out that people like Republican Attorney Ken Paxton here, Republican Attorney General Ken Paxton, who's constantly been a corrupt elected official impeached by his own Republican members of the Texas
House for his corruption. He's trying to shut down not disorderly immigration. He's trying to shut down the legal processes for migration at the Biden administration tries to set up. So I think there's a way and if people want to, you know, I'm probably a progressive Democrat. But if people want to call what I just said more to the center or more to the left, I don't, I don't know what to call it. But what I'll tell you is we need include and I include my progressive brothers and sisters
in this. We need a truthful message that I believe is a progressive message, but that's a majorityarian message, a popular message that brings together the large swath of voters. We can work on persuading voters our way. We can both persuade voters, lead voters and hold together electoral majorities because we cannot be a minority party. A couple of quick ones just to see whether we're on the same page. The idea that Tim Walls, and of course, the conversation
we're trying to have. The claim that Tim Walls was the problem for the Harris ticket and that Josh Shapiro would have led to different results. I don't believe it. I don't even think with Josh Shapiro, Harris wins Pennsylvania based on what the margin was. And I think the risk of that is it brings out latent anti-semitism. So I just don't think that the VP choice was the dispositive factor here. Do you agree? Yeah, I don't see, I don't see how it is that frankly, this entire thing that
solved in the 100-day campaign that happened. To me, sure, we could Monday morning quarterback it and say, if the vice president had done this or that or if Governor Walls had done this or that, maybe if we really went in, Monday morning quarterback, we could see how that could change some number of votes in some states and have losses in others. But at the end of the day, I don't think that this was something that was about the last 100 days or even the last 10 months.
Well, if it should have been more than 100 days, should Biden have stepped aside earlier? Would that have helped Harris? I think again, the going back and looking at, hey, what should the president have done, what should the vice president have done? I think the theory that I've laid out to you a little bit earlier stands stronger and truer if it actually doesn't have to do with
those particular actor and those particular last months. I think we have a broader democratic party brand issue that then certainly people could go and look at what the president or vice president or what the campaign could have done to try to play a really bad hand, a little better. But what I really want folks to focus on is why is it that we are playing from such a bad hand? Why is it that
this kind of election was even close? And I think that the more that people go and try to dissect that last that last ditch few months part, we're missing talking about the bigger issue, which is why is it that folks think that a democratic party whose policies are about freedom in the workplace, freedom of health care, freedom to live how you'd like. Why is it that people don't hear those policies because there's just a general sense that democratic party is more maybe more for the elite, maybe
sometimes for the working class who knows? That's the core issue. If that was fixed, then I think we have been in a completely different place from the beginning. And I think digging into those decisions in those last few months, we end up missing honestly the force for the trees. We've been speaking with Democratic Congressman Greg Kassar from Texas. Really appreciate your time and insights today. Thank you so much for having me. I want to tell you about an important part of my
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them to your cart. The info is in the podcast notes. Another difficult truth we have to accept is that magas gaslighting on the topic of abortion worked and abortion and Trump have really been a well crafted scam now for a really long time and I think it's worth starting at the beginning. We are going to look at this viral clip. A young woman was interviewed by MSNBC as to why she voted Trump and here's what she had to say. And I like that he didn't actually plan to ban abortion. He
just brought it back to the States. I like that he doesn't actually plan to ban abortion. He just brought it back to the States. We're going to get to this in a moment but we have to start at the beginning. Donald Trump has been pro choice his entire life and we are to believe that when he was 68 years old, he met a kid that he liked. The kid's mother said, I thought about getting an abortion way back when but I'm glad I didn't. And suddenly Trump had an awakening as a 60 year old man
to 68 year old man. He had never considered this and he said, you know what? I am the strongest pro life president. I'm against abortion. It's terrible and Democrats are doing all these terrible things and I'm going to speak at the right to life and whatever. All all BS all BS crafted by Trump to run as a Republican. And then Trump's approach to politics has mostly been I will take every side of an issue so that people can just go, oh, I don't like Trump's first position on
this issue. I'll just believe that his second position on the issue is the real one. And case in point on this issue of abortion since the overturning of Roe v Wade, Donald Trump has both played the position that he would be fine with a federal abortion ban or that he would not go for a federal abortion ban, that he would be fine with states saying absolutely no abortion, no exceptions or that there should be some exceptions. He played every side of the issue.
And it worked where even some young voters said, I voted for him because he's not going to ban abortion. And here's the critical statistic. This is from a senior political reporter Aaron Blake at the Washington Post who tweeted in 2022, Democrats, one voters who said abortion should be mostly legal by 22 points in 2024. The voters who should who believe abortion should be legal
in most cases were split 49% for Democrats, 49% for Republicans. It is a disaster of almost proportions that the English language almost cannot accurately describe that we have one party that has campaigned on ending abortion, celebrated and encouraged Trump to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe v Wade. It happened. We now have hundreds
of stories of women foregoing care for fear of what might happen legally. Doctors, OBGYNs, fleeing states in order to avoid the possible legal repercussions of providing reproductive care. Women who have died either because they didn't seek care due to the law or they were denied care due to the law. We have all of that, all of that. And it's all the result of one party, the Republican party and the pro choice vote is split 49, 49 between Republicans and Democrats. It is mind
blowing. And at a certain point, you, you know, we don't wash our hands and walk away, but you have to give them credit. You bamboozled people and it worked. You took every side of this issue, tricked people into thinking that you're really the person that's actually four of women's bodily autonomy and it's about states rights and how lovely that. Hey, you know what? If New York wants this, but if Texas wants that, then Texas can do it. And that's totally and completely
fine ignoring the real health and life repercussions of it. And then you get 49, 49 from the pro choice I think abortion should be mostly legal vote. At some point, you've got to say, wow, congratulations. I mean, you did it through lying. You did it through subterfuge. You did it from circumventing law in order rather than coinciding with it. But you convince these people. Now it's not just
congratulations. You did it. It's also it's only possible because of the lack of critical thinking, the lack of an epistemological underpinning for so many of these voters like once again, this young lady. And I like that he didn't actually plan to ban abortion. He just brought it back to the states, which of course it's sort of like when when people used to say the civil war wasn't about slavery. The civil war was about states rights, which of course it's yes, a states right to keep
slavery legal. Roe v Wade overturning isn't about banning abortion. It's about states rights. Yes, states rights to completely ban abortion, criminalize a reproductive health and send women into a situation where some die, some need to figure out how to get to a different state to get the care that they need and terrorize doctors some into the point of leaving the state. It's about states
rights. They convinced people. They convinced people and they are getting away with it. I want to suggest to you that letting an anti-vaxer conspiracy theorist run America's health departments and health initiatives is a very, very bad idea. NBS MSNBC's Vaughn Hilliard interviewed Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in West Palm Beach, Florida yesterday and talked to him about what do you plan to do? What is
the plan here as far as all of the elements of medical that you will be overseeing? And it is very scary, including Bobby telling MSNBC that he plans to clear out entire departments of the FDA. You see clearing out the corruption in your terms. Would that mean clearing out the top level federal service workers that are currently at the FDA and CDC? I'm categorized. I would say. What does that look like? Yeah. In some categories of workers, they're entire departments like the
nutrition departments that have to go. They're not doing their job. They're not protecting our kids. Why do we have fruit loops in this country? They're at an 18 or 19 ingredients and you go to Canada and it's got two or three. Would you eliminate any of the agencies? I'm not. Am I doing eliminate the agencies as long as it requires congressional approval? I wouldn't be doing that. I can get the corruption out of the agencies. This is what I've been doing for 40 years. I've
issued all those agencies. He's done lawsuits up the wazoo. Here's what's really important to understand. Whenever I see here's kind of like the way it works. I criticize this and I go, it's crazy to let Bobby Kennedy have at these these government institutions. People come in and they go, David, you've been taken over by Big Pharma. Big Pharma is a disaster. The FDA is a disaster. They've all gotten so many things wrong. And I would say that's right. The FDA has gotten things wrong.
Big Pharma certainly has put profit over health many times before. But that's a reason to strengthen the FDA and to make regulation more functional. The solution when we say, hey, the FDA doesn't always get it right. And Big Pharma has an incentive to lie and cheat for profit if that's what you believe. Why would the solution be to clear out entire departments of the FDA? The solution would be
better and arguably more regulation. And that's not what I'm hearing from Bobby Kennedy, Jr. There are people who may not, you know, if you're 24 right now, you were 20 when Trump left office, you were 16 when Trump came into office, you were 15 when Trump ran his campaign. You might not remember how utterly insane it was to see Trump do this sort of stuff all over the country. A Robert F. Kennedy also weighing in about vaccines. You have been a crusader on questioning vaccines.
Are there specific vaccines that you would seek to take off the market? Oh, I'm not going to take away anybody's vaccines. I've never been an anti-vaccine. I've just said you will not take any vaccine that is currently on the market. I'm not, if somebody vaccines are working for somebody, I'm not going to take them away.
People ought to have a choice and that choice ought to be informed by the best information. So I'm going to make sure that I, into the safety studies and efficacies are out there and people can make individual assessments about whether that product is going to be good for them. Would that include COVID vaccines that are currently on the market?
I want the best science for every vaccine. It is part of that. During the pandemic, the high to the pandemic, you were questioning the FDA and calling them out for approving the emergency authorization of the COVID vaccines. If you had been in charge of the FDA at that time, would you have blocked the authorization of the COVID vaccine? I'd like to suggest a couple. What I was saying at that time is the vaccines are not going to prevent transmission,
which they were telling the public that they would. They were saying you need to take this vaccine in order to protect your mind. I knew in May of 2020 that the vaccines were not going to protect against transmission because I was actually reading among key studies. But you would not have told the FDA or the authorization of the vaccine. I would have been honest with the American people. I would have been honest with the American people. You would have been honest with the American people.
All right, so we're not getting an answer there. And then finally on fluoride, RFK also weighing in. He's also talked about fluoride in the US water supply. You would see to ban fluoride in the US water supply? Well, I would advise the water districts that are currently using it. There's a lot of news science out there. In fact, there's a federal judge decision by an Obama pointed judge on October 4th this year, in which he does an EPA back to the drawing board.
He said, you've never done the safety studies by the way. What is that looking without debating, without knowing that without going back and forth on the side? It's a low right IQ in our children. What would you, what would you, I'm January 20, 2025 or three months away here. What would you actually do? All right. So he says fluorides on its way out at Lowers IQ and causes, I think he said bone cancer
there. This stuff has been studied pretty extensively. It is true seemingly that with very high fluoride doses, there can be an effect on IQ. Those are doses well beyond any municipalities, fluoridation level that I'm aware of. So it is a theoretical risk, but that's the case with, I mean, so many different medications or treatments where at outrageously high doses bad things happen, but nobody suggesting those doses. My understanding on the bone cancer connection is that is also untrue.
I want to know all the science on fluoride. I want to hear all of it. I want to understand all of it. The specific things that RFK is bringing up to the degree that I've researched them and it is somewhat of an extensive degree. They appear not to be true, but this is the direction we're going. This is the sort of stuff we are going to be fighting day after day after day in the forthcoming Trump administration. We've got to be ready to do it. On the bonus show today, we will talk about
what now with project 2025. We will talk about how new minimum wage and paid sick leave measures did on Tuesday. And we will also evaluate Bernie Sanders diagnosis of what happened in this damn election. Bernie had a lot of interesting things to say and we will discuss them and more on the bonus show. Sign up at joinpackman.com. Use the coupon code not again for 75% off the cost of a membership.