Joining us now is James Bovard. You can find him at jimbovard dot com. He writes for a variety of outlets and has for many many years. He is a libertarian, or we could say a classical liberal, because that's something that Steven Miller's wife doesn't seem to understand. That's the same thing as of course there's a lot of things that they don't understand, are there, Jim. But he had a very interesting op ed piece on miss dot org.
The latest federal killing in Minnesota echoes Ruby Ridge, and I think he's really right, and in a lot of different ways. When we can talk about how it is similar to that, you know, if you're around at that point in time, that should be etched indelibly into your memory what happens Ruby Ridge and Branch, Davidians and things like that. But you know, even at that time, a lot of people were not really following that very closely. And of some of the people who are following it,
I think they've forgotten the details of it. They certainly have forgotten the lessons of it, because there are a lot of parallels here in this and we need to learn those lessons so we can stop repeating these things over and over again. Thank you for joining us, Jim.
Hey, thanks very much for having me on. Thanks and thanks for not forgetting about Ruby Ridge.
How could I? It's amazing. Gary Spencer did a great job in that trial. And again, what an interesting character he is in terms of defending Randy Weaver, and while not defending him, but in terms of getting some compensation for him. But you can never compensate for really for what he lost. Let's talk a little bit about the parallels. But tell us you put up a tweet that really went viral about this, which is the basis of your article. I guess that's why you decided to write the article.
You had a lot of people take exception to you drawing parallels.
Exception Yeah, I mean, you know, with their pitchforks, and yes, yeah it was. It was interesting if you go back to folks who were politically conscious in the nineteen nineties, people who were skeptical about government power, both liberals and conservatives and libertarians, Ruby Ridge was a rallying cry for what happens when the government is off the leash and
when federal agents have a license to kill. As a federal judge, Alis Kozinski said, the Ruby Ridge case you had, the federal FBI snipers were given a basically a double O seven license to go out and kill people. Yeah, that's the basic rules of engagement where if you see the adult males outside the cabin, kill them, you know, no warning or anything. Even though they had never fired upon the Federal they never fired upon the FBI.
So but when we've seen that over and over again, I talked about how apparently with this absolute immunity, these people are all double O sevens. I said, I don't know, maybe that refers to their IQ.
Well, I had that impression. I was wondering about that.
With some of the feedback I was getting, it was it was interesting to see the absolute instant hatred for drawing a parallel between what happened at Ruby Ridge and the killing of the Alex Preddy in Minneapolis last Saturday.
Yeah, and it was. It was funny.
It's been a while since I since I had that much visibility on Twitter. And it's interesting how the standard insults have changed, because now it just seems like about forty percent of the response it was just like you were retard, Yeah exactly, or Okay, I'm thinking is this the best you can do? Is this the best deprecation you have in your arsenal? You were retard man, You trying to go back and forth with these people, and then they started flinging.
The airport in every direction. And you know, I like George Carlin, there's a time and a place for the airport. It could be effective. But when you're just kind of when this is all you have, you know.
Well, they don't even know what is that. I have to look that up if they could even start.
Yeah yeah, well so yeah, so most so the most common retort was retard and the second most common report was boomer.
Yeah that's it, yeah boomer. Yeah. I mean, okay, so I know how to read. You know.
There was yeah, there was there was some guy was who kept attacking me and he was making such in your comments. I finally said, you know, maybe what we need is go fundb drive to get you hooked on phonics. You go to get the software program. And it didn't seem to make him happy.
So you know, I tried. I tried. There were there.
Were other folks I said, you know, good luck with your grammar, you know, because they were just if you're gonna call someone a retard. You should be able to spell your entire sentence correctly, you know, otherwise it.
Kind of boomerangs. You know, it's not a good look. You reply to them.
Okay, boomerang, there you go. So what was the tweet? What exactly did you say in the tweet?
Oh, that's a good question. Let me pull it up here. I've got this reopened.
It was It was interesting, there was I'd first first commented on the on the Ruby Ridge thing, uh.
First parallel on.
Late Saturday, and then I was getting so much hostile feedback. Uh so so what I did? Uh, this is an article in the parallels. In both cases, the Fed's suppress evidence raisingly lied about what happened, exaggerated the threat to federal agents, and offered bizarre justifications for their killings.
Yeah, and that is let's see.
Yeah, and we start out, we get add to the on my list. I made a similar list like that the needlessly aggressive use of force, which seems to be a hallmark government anymore.
Yeah, and that was that was a point.
You know that I made an Macy's article on how the latest killing at go Ruby Ridge. But it's interesting because you have so many people who are conservatives who understood after January sixth, twenty twenty one, after the Biden posts came in and vilified everyone, every Trump's supporter who'd been in the same zip code as the US capital
and tried to ruin your lives. And you had the FBI formally classifying all these January sixth cases, eight hundred or more of them as terrorism cases because someone walk into a government building.
Yeah.
I talked about that. In one particular. I think one of the most egregious ones I saw was you had a couple of elderly guys that were there and they had their middle aged one of them middle aged son, and they walk up. The doors are open going into the Capitol building and they got a couple of cops. They said, is there a restroom'r in here somewhere? Yeah, sure, go right here. I go in and use the restroom.
And that's all they did. They come back out, and as they're getting ready to go back out the same way they came in, there was a female cop and she says, no, no, no, go this way. She's pointing trying to get them to go onto the floor of the Capitol building, trying to trap them and they did charge them, because that's why that came out, was because
they actually wound up charging them with that. You would think that they would have a memory of that and a perspective of it that they've got like the memory of a fruit fly. It's absolutely amazing they don't. They can't. They can't understand these different principles and the similarities that
are there. And that's a big part of it. It's a big part of the of the group think that's there, The tribalism that is there, is that they're going to go through with a fine tooth comb and they're going to identify how this person over here was a bad person. We've got to add hominem attack and they're not part of our tribe, so it was justified. That's basically when you peel back all the layers of this onion. That's
what it really gets down to. When you see this this rabid response that I've seen from a lot of people on social media.
Yeah, it goes.
Back to what historian Henry Adams said one hundred years ago. Politics has always been a systematic organization of hatreds.
Yeah, and it was.
It was It was intriguing to see the push button.
Hatred after the.
After the protester got killed, and to see and it was funny because I was posting stuff on Facebook and then on they're on Twitter, and so late on Saturday, I said, well, you know, you know there was a h there was a TV station there in Minneapolis.
I think it might have been an ABC station and said that that actually, if you look at the video, it looks like the federal agent had taken away the guy's gun before he was shot.
And oh, my god, you think I had just you know, made the biggest heresy in the world because the outrage.
Could anybody say that?
And it was like I was, it was like I was trying. It was almost like we were supposed to think the federal agents had somehow performed a miracle by saving everybody from getting shot.
By this guy. Like it was that Stephen.
Miller or was that Bobino. I think it was Bobino who said the agents did a really good job because they stopped this guy from killing killing police. Yeah, and I'm thinking by that standard, they could kill everybody the demonstrations.
Well, you know, it really has That's one of the things I remember most about Ruby Ridge. And then about Waco's well was how people lined up as to whether or not they liked David Koresh and his group. If they didn't like him, oh yeah, do whatever you want to to him. You know, I'm a Christian. And so I looked at that and I saw these people said, well, you know, we don't like this guy. We thinks his theology is avran and they do weird things in their
church and stuff. So yeah, yeah, go after this guy. I'm not part of I don't want to be associated with them. And so they they basically were cheering the incineration of men, women and children. It's like, what in the world is going on here? But of course you see that now over and over again, like you point out the systematic organization of hatred, you know, which is And it was.
The same thing with the Ruby Ridge. The part of what happened as the FEDS were very quick to vilify, vilify their victims, being the Randy Weegman his wife primarily they had some bad ideas, and in the writing that I did about it, I was very careful not to say, well, you know, maybe they've got a point. No no, no, no, I mean bad ideas. But then there are a couple people out there who think that I have bad ideas,
that's right. So you know, you know, I don't want to give the FEDS a license to kill people with bad ideas. But this is what what a lot of the people who want the government to fight extremism, this is what it turns out to be people who have different ideas than you do. Said, well, you know, got to take them out, you know, I mean.
It's it's hard.
It's hard to have a free speech if someone's hateful, and what's the difference A definition of hateful disagrees with me. So, but we've seen that ever since the Clinton administration.
So and of course, you know, when we look at the way people responded first to the killing of Renee Good, what I noticed was the MAGA people came out said, oh, she's LGBT and she was part of an organization that got some Soros money whatever. And it's like, okay, well, you do realize Scott Bessett is a part of that LGBT movement. He do realize he got a lot of Sous money, didn't He as a partner with the guy
for a long time. And yet you know, they're completely blind to that because now this guy is he's whitewashed, he's baptized or whatever because Trump picked him and he's
working with Trump, and the same type of stuff. If you equated Ashley Babbitt to Renee Good, which I think was a good comparison because they were both shot at point blank range when they were no threat to anyone, and yet they came back and it said, yeah, but look, you know she's I don't like what she did with this or what she says about that, I don't like her lifestyle or whatever. So again it's the demonization of this kind of thing, and now we've seen it. They
kept digging and digging. It took a lot longer for them to find something on Alex pretty but what they were able to find on him was a BBC video where he got into a fight with some a border patrol aid or something like that. I don't know if you've seen that or not. That went viral yesterday.
Yeah.
I haven't watched all of it, but I've seen it.
But yeah, so here's the tail light out and it's like, okay, but they didn't kill him that day, and would that justify him being killed that day? Even and he wasn't doing that the day that he was killed. It wasn't doing anything like that.
Yeah, there was a story that I wrote that came out on the day before he was shot that said, look, I mean, you have protests, you're going to have assholes, because there's almost always people who behaved like assholes of protests.
And the same thing.
If you've got police, you're also going to have all that's true.
That's true.
That's so there's there's an interesting point here on the looking at the at what Alex pretty did before he got shot. So we don't know the names of the two federal agents who shot and killed him, and I would very interesting to see what their records were, see if they had a record of abusive force, or if they had shot somebody else before, or.
You know, or if they were new hires.
Yeah, so, I mean, this is this is a real big This is something which comes up in in big cities if some cops shoot someone, especially if the cop has shot people before, and especially if there was any kind of pattern to the cops killings or shootings. This is this is very germane to making any kind of judgment. But the Trump people have decided we have no, right. I mean, I don't know when or how federal agents got their right to kill anonymously.
Yeah, that's right, that's right. But this is this.
Is, this is what it is at this point, and it's it's funny, but I mean it's it's kind of a very what we saw. A couple of months ago. There was a lot of controversy initially about how the how our War Department had done a second hit on
the survivors out there near Venezuela. And you know, it was there was video of that killing, and I guess it was being seen on Capitol Hill, and then all of a sudden, our Secretary of War, Hag Suth, comes out and said, well, of course we can't make that public as confidential has got this and that it's like, you know, so it's a license to kill.
Yeah.
But the thing is, you know, he put out and bragged about their shots against these boats in the past, and I said that about the this was I think, wasn't the circle back where they killed the shipwrecked people. I think that was the very first strike they did. And I said, of the video that he put out proudly, I said, that's criminal, that's an act of war. They didn't interdict that there's there's clearly processes for them to check people if they suspect.
Them of being drug dealers.
And again I don't agree with any that war on drug stuff, but they have their own rules about that and they violated all the rules.
Well, and it's it's it's it's interesting trying to figure out if there's laws or you know, constitutional rights that the Trump administration is going to recognize and uphold.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, because it's.
You know, trying to understand what went down in Minneapolis. I mean, it's it's amazing that the first response by the DHS, by Bovino and people like that was like, well, people have got no right to know the names that we're going to shift them out of the states so they can't be held legally liable by Minnesota officials. It's it's like, where did they get the right to kill in Minnesota? I mean, this is this is this is
not a recognized federal right. But there again, it goes back to Ruby Ridge and you had the FBI sniper who killed the mother holding your baby by the cabin door.
Yes, and I'll never forget his name. It's been burned in my memory a lot hor ute, right.
Yeah, And you had the Janet Reno and the Clinton Just Apartment and the Clinton President Clinton moving hell in high Water to block any prosecution by the stateo Idaho of the FBI sniper, even though a confidential Just Apartment report said that his shot that killed Vicky Weaver was totally illegal and unjustified.
That's right.
Yeah, recount some of the details about Ruby Ridge because it has been a while for people and even people who were following it at the time. You know, there was a lot at the time we didn't The Internet can be both good and bad. I got to say that, you know, when Ruby Ridge happened, and then when you had the very long standoff there with Branch Davidians, it was a bit difficult to get information because the only thing you could get was mainstream media whitewashing of stuff.
And we did have a bulletin board that I was a part of at the time, but there was no Internet, right, so people in the area were getting information and putting it out, and of course it wasn't verified, but of course we knew that the stuff coming from mainstream media was verified bs So it was interesting to look at these things in real time, but go back and recount some of the things with Ruby Ridges. You see a parallels to what's happening.
Okay, well, I'll start giving a thumbnail Ruby Rich here. It started when an undercover alcohol, tobacco, and firearms atf agent and trapped Randy Weaver into selling a salt off shotgun.
It was a.
On August twenty first, nineteen ninety two. Three US Marshalls dressed and ninja outfits and with face masks illegally intrude on Weaver's land and ambush Weaver's fourteen year old son and a twenty five of your old family friend, Kevin Harris. The marshals fired some machine guns at the at the UH at them and killed the boy's dog. A firefight and sued ensued a US marshals killed as the boy was running back home towards his family's cabin, a marshal,
a Marshall shined in the back and killed him. Yeah what and and it was a big issue then in the Justice Department of confidential report was that the Marshal Service never separated the different marshals who who had killed the boy and been in the firefight and gave them thereby giving them a chance to create their own cover story, which was later approven to be completely false. But so the marshals gave a storyline to the FBI that made
the FBI panic. The next day, FBI snipers arrived. Within an hour of them taking position, every adult in the Weaver cabin was either dead or severely wounded, even though they never fired a shot at the FBI. You had FBI sniper whore. You usually shot Randy Willie in the back as he stood outside his shack, and then fired a shot that killed Vicky Weaver by the cabin door
as she was holding her baby. Now, the FBI initially said that they were justified and killing Vicky Weaver because she'd been in the front yard firing at the FBI helicopter.
That was a.
Complete scam and that fell apart. And so once that story fell apart, the FBI said they killed her accidentally.
So that sounds like Christine Hohlmes thing the agents were stuck in the snow. Oh yeah, yeah, just making this stuff up, the contempt for everybody. It reminds me of what Jake Tappert just said to one of these guys. The guy's going on on about what happened with this Alex Pretty thing, and he goes, you do realize there's a video of this, don't you.
Well.
And that's the only reason why we've got a chance to help getting the truth on this, because if you think of the initial storyline that the Trump top officials put out on the Alex Pretty shooting, uh, he had his non billimeter pistol out. He was a solding law enforcement and they were you know, he was there to
mask for them. And you know, to the New York Times credit, you know, within an hour of the Trump top officials saying them, you know, New York Times was saying, you know, actually there's videos, there's something completely different, and so many papers came around to that quite quickly. But you had the Trump people quite acclaimed to this absolute nonsense version that would whitewash the federal agents who killed Preddy.
And it's like, Okay, if you're gonna lie so brazenly, why should we trust you on anything that's right?
That's right exactly. Yeah.
It is brazen, it is arrogant. It's an insult to intelligence, isn't it myself?
Well, yeah, it is, except for people on Twitter.
Yeah, because a lot of intelligence because they're just you know, it was it was like, you know, but you know, but Stephen Miller said this, and you know, it was like it was handed down from Mount Sinai and it's like, well no, actually, you know.
It's that's that's that's not what that's not what happened. So you're calling them liars, well you.
Know, yeah, that's right, you got a better wordy than the liar. Uh, let's say they were grossly mistaken.
Yeah.
But so so the an interesting thing with this was that there was there were a lot of people in the just Department who were very unhappy how it went down at Ruby Ridge, and there was an internal investigation
that came up with a five hundred page report. The government kept that secret, and early tw early nineteen ninety five, FBI Chief Lewis Free does a press conference and announces basically whitewashes all the FBI policy makers and the snipers for the killing of Vicky Weaver and everything else that happened in that case. So a couple of days later, I did a piece for the Wall Street Journal called
no Accountability at the FBI. A couple of weeks later, Lewis Free attacked me in the article and a response he wrote to the Wall Street Journal, and so, you know, it was funny. There was a friend of mine from Argentina who had done some work with and on the day that the Lewis Free letter condemning me came out and the Walls Journal, he calls it and says, well, I just wanted to say goodbye, because you know, he's Argentina.
I'm not gonna around very long. And I said, oh, you know.
I can't imagine the federal officials ever doing anything improper like that, but we're.
Starting to approach that point. Perhaps I don't know.
There you go, but so so so I kept digging and I eventually got a copy of that five hundred page confidential report, and I wrote about that for the Wall Street Journal. I also wrote about the case for a Playboy and American Spectator, and I think my stories.
I interrupt you a second. How did you get that five hundred page report? I mean, did they give that up with a four request?
No? No, no, they did not give it up. What would Yeah? No, it was Look, it was not given up.
Okay, okay, you found it through some alternative sources.
Well, I came into possession. Okay, there you go. How about that. That's the way you put it?
Yeah, like that, But no, it was Pentagon and and having that report it just completely destroyed the entire storyline the FEDS had created going back two years or more earlier, and it made a mockery of Lewis Free's claims. And they finally, uh suspended some officials FBI and the in the top the top official of the FBI Violent Crimes and Major Fender Section, plaid Guilty was sent to prison for destroying evidence on the Ruby Ridge case.
I didn't know that. I didn't think there's some details. I didn't know. That's good.
It may yeah, it may have been the evidence that he destroyed would have showed that longhor she intentionally killed Vicky Weaver or maybe at We don't know because it was destroyed and the cover up was successful.
But and they gave him a medal, didn't they?
I don't know, But uh, there was a story which I did.
The commendation whatever.
Yeah, maybe I'm not sure. But what the Marshall Service did is wait until you know, three and a half years after the Marshals there killed Sandy Weaver and then gave their highest valor commendation to the marshals who had been at Ruby Ridge in early nineteen ninety six. And I wrote a Wall Street Journal story about that. There was a lot of pushback among some of their editors, but that's a different story. But no, it was it
was brazen that they were. It was it was a wide arp who was a US marshal someone like that. I mean, he was a movie consultant, right, I mean, I'm not it'd be kind of rude to stop the interview and doing an internet search in Google seart so but no, but so it was utterly brazen. But and it's it's just interesting to see how many lies, i mean, lying and killing goes together like hamm and eggs. Yeah, oh yeah, you have that with the federal agencies, like you have it with the mafia.
Yeah. So and.
Well, certainly somebody's going to kill somebody as serious as that crime is, they're gonna lie about it.
And yeah, and so that's.
What we see when the government does it. You know, it's kind of interesting. We talk about the situation of Venezuela. One of the things that I've said is that, you know, Madison said the the weapons of defense abroad always become instruments of tyranny at home, and I think that applies to their attitudes towards killing people, their attitudes towards war,
whether it's foreign or domestic. I think once they have crossed that rubicon in their mind, like they did with Venezuela, it's just a matter of time before they start doing it domestically as well. And I think it's kind of amazing too when you look at border patrol and immigration control and all the rest of the stuff. They're so focused on their political border, but they don't think there's
any boundaries whatsoever in law for what they do. So these are people who say, yeah, we got to have borders and so forth, but there's no boundaries for us. I mean Trump has even said that, you know, he was asked that question. He had no problem about saying, well, no, I don't think there's any restrictions that I have, any rules in any international rules or laws that I need. I'm constrained by my morality.
Oh that was so comforting.
It was just I mean, there are so many things which Trump says that which are just you.
Know, Yeah, that was a Golden Moment. You know, that's kind of like makes insaying, well, when the president does it, it's not illegal, you know, it's.
Yeah, but it's going back to those Border patrol agents and the Ice folks. I mean, it's almost as if we those federal agents need to have absolute power in order to preserve the American way of life.
Yeah, except that.
The American way of life and federal absolute power, it did not used to go together.
So that's right. Well, we just had that a week or two ago. We had some Israeli billionaire named SloMo, and he said, we're going to destroy the First Amendment to preserve it. Right, So we got to destroy the rule of law in order to have America. We got to destroy the Constitution and everything else. Right, that's the logic behind what these people are telling us.
Yeah, I mean, and some of the Trump actions on freedom speech have been appalling. Oh yeah, same with a lot of the other things he had done. So but it's just part of what's fascinating to me. On going back to the parallels or Ruby Ridge and the killing on Saturday, what were their rules of engagement for the DHS agents there? There was there was a video I
saw online. Bobino was talking to the agents, giving them a pep talk, and he was tell, if anybody touches you, then you know, take them down, arrest them, you know, just you know, do maximum penalties for them. And this is the same attitude. Christy Nomes said something similar that if some if somebody, if some protests or really touches you, boom,
that's assault, so on and so forth. Well, you've seen the videos of these a lot of the federal agents being super aggressive with people, yeah, down batching them, assaulting them, spraying their face for no reason. Why the pepper spray. I mean, this is such an absolute disparity. Instead, there's a conduct. You know, how are people supposed to be free when federal agents have the right to beat them?
That's right.
I remember years ago there was a protest at Berkeley, I don't even remember what it was for, and you had all these people that were you know, setting cross legged on the ground and you had this fat cop go on with pepper spray right in front of their faces, just spraying, and that outraged everybody, rightfully.
So it's like, what are you doing that for?
And yet you know, we have the same situation happening now with these Ice agents. There's that one picture where they had this person pinned to the ground. A guy puts the spray can right in his face or her face and sprays him with that. There was another one after the shooting of Renee Good. I've played that multiple times.
Video I played multiple times on the show, where you've got this guy going around kicking they put on they trucked up the sidewalk with her name and things like that, and then put some candles there, and you probably saw that. He goes on kicking the candles over. The guy says, what are you doing? What are you doing?
Do you know what?
And the guy gets right up in his face and you know it gets like about an inch from actually hitting him with his body. Says get back, get back, get back, you know, and keeps pushing him back. Just thugish, schoolyard behavior, just beyond belief, trying to go the guy into touching him so he can go off on this guy. He and all the other ones around there. It's going to be a gang bang. Just lays a finger on this guy, and he's doing everything he can to provoke that.
And we've seen them coming up to people knocking phones out of their hands because it's somehow it's now a rule that if you are photographing the police, which you have a right to do. Supreme Court has said that over and over. I believe it's a Supreme court. There's been multiple court cases. I don't know if it got up to the Supreme Court or not. But you have a right to film the police. We all know that that should be there, whether the law says that or not.
But they come up to people and threaten them, threatened to put them in a database, knock the phone out of their hands, and all the rest of this stuff.
Yep.
The well, the the Trump DHS has been very explicit that there is no right to video tape federal agents in public. There that to video tape them even when they're wearing masks, yes to them, and and that that is considered to be a crime, and the federal agents are entitled. Do you is force to shut that down.
And as you mentioned, there's been a Supreme Court has not made this explicit, but there have been a number of Federal Appeals Court rulings that said, look, you know, people have got to write to video tap the police in public. I mean, there's there's a certain point where the video table could become two a grass server too interfering. But I mean there are you know, there's lots of the uh Trump supporters would like to have a five mile zone of no cameras.
Yeah, I guess are they're going to go around Jim and are they going to arrest Flock and Amazon for the ring cameras and stuff? Because we got cameras everywhere in our society now, whether you like it or not, and most of us aren't wearing masks when that's happening as well.
Well, and it's just it's it's it's interesting how you have. You've got two sides here. One, you've got total secrecy for the FEDS, they've got their face. Man, nobody's got no age, has got name, people got no right to know the name of the agents that that killed somebody. On the flip side, you've got total surveillance. You got these these ages going around and sticking cameras in people's faces and saying that that that that they're a face and the name will be in a database.
Now. Yeah, so the terrorists or whatever protests.
Or database somebody does that to me, I tell them to spell my name, right, let me give it to you just in case.
Yeah, I mean it's it's kind of late for me to worry about being a those databases.
That's right.
You know, their society, I guess, Jim, we could look at it. Their their model for society is a one way mirror, right, you know where they are on the opposite side of the mirror. You know, you look at it and you don't see them at all. You you only see yourself that's there as they as they're putting you in the databases that are there, but you're not allowed to see anything they have.
Yeah, and it's it's important to keep in mind. Donald Trump has often said he's go to make America great again, but he never says he's gonna make America free again or make America constitutional. And Trump's idea of America great and it seems to be focused on the presidential power.
Yes, yes, yeah, he's going to make all powers. It's going to make America a monarchy again.
Well, and what's appalling to me is you got so many conservatives who are cheerleading for that. Yeah, I'm just thinking, are you that historically illiterate?
Exactly? But to ask that question is to answer it.
So, yeah, what are you trying to conserve? At this point, you know, we've had the terms neocon. We need to come up with something for the Trump Trump cons or something like that which says that they don't adhere to any principles of individual liberty or economic liberty or the rule of law whatever.
That's a Trump con.
We're just here for loyalty to Trump because that gets us jobs.
It gets us money.
The highest freedom, yeah, that's right. That is the highest free having the opportunity to obey Donald orders. And it's like and it's it's unfortunately Trump has some good ideas, He's had some good policies. I had a story in New York Post last Sunday on Trump's talking about banning the red light cameras and the speed cameras in Washington, d C. I mean, those things are an absolute menace. They caused so many accents, they've killed people.
So I didn't see that he said that. I would agree with that, but I don't think that he'll do it.
I'll do Trump had not said that, but if someone in his transportation apartment, oh okay, to ban those by those cameras and yeah, it's it's a great example of how how the government can be a scoundrel because what happens is you have those red light cameras put in and in order to maximize revenue, what they do is shorten the yellow light.
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
And then cause a lot of accidents and fatalities.
So yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I was surprised because wait a minute, does Trump every and drive a car? You know, this is one of the things when you see.
No, no, I mean, and.
This is complained about.
This, you know, this is a fascinating and want it too, because I assume that Trump has had bodyguards going back for the last thirty or forty years.
Oh yeah, sure.
And his absolute contempt for Second Amendment rights. Yes, of anybody going to their protest is supposed to disarm and put themselves at the mercy of the feds.
I mean, this is such and you can.
See that with that other elitist billionaire Scott Bessant who gets a free pass working for Soros from the MAGA people for some reason. And when he's saying, you know, uh, I can't imagine anybody taking a gun to a protest or whatever, and it's like he said, I've been at protest. I didn't take guns. I thought, I said to my wife, I said, they were probably protesting Bessant.
That's a good point.
Probably I get my Wall Street or something.
Yeah.
I mean I've had the experience of being a protests where there were guns, and protests where the guns were banned, and it's like, you know, eh, it's life. It's like, I mean, guns are part of the American way of life, and it's also a symbol of American freedom.
So that's right.
Yeah, I've said this multiple times on airs and said he said that.
I said.
The safest protest I was at was a protest at the Alamo where they were trying to get the carry laws changed in Texas, and you had hundreds of people with the rifles slung over their shoulders and police left everybody alone. It's a great deterrent to violence, you know.
Well, this is it.
I mean, it was fascinating to see the absolute panic by the federal agents as soon as someone says gun gon gun, Oh, we got to shoot him ten times. Yeah, I mean that was an absolute disgrace.
Yeah, they were beating.
The hell out of this guy who did knock to the ground unjustifiably.
And then they padicked and killed him.
And it's like, how in the hell anybody can uphold that kind of behavior or see it as a model or say, yeah, but he was a bad guy because he voted for Tim Waltz.
You know whatever.
I don't care, that's right, and I don't care about what happened, you know. In that video from the BBC that was released on Wednesday went viral on Wednesday, I really that's not relevant to this particular case. First of all, look, you can see the gun is stuck in the in the back of his waistband there in his back. It's like, yeah, and he didn't pull it out, right, so what's the deal at the point, they didn't kill him either, you know, so so if they could deal with it.
Then yeah.
It's totally appalling to see Trump talking as if anyone, anybody with a gun should be presumed guilty, especially if they've got a second magazine. And how many bullets did the cops carry, you.
Know, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Well I was at the I was at the Bundy Ranch stand off there on the ground.
Oh it was a great one.
Yeah, it was. It was a big win because what was good about that it wasn't just a protest. They had a specific thing that they wanted. They said, we want the cows back, you know, so that you stole
from us. And so it was very interesting. But one of the things that came up in the aftermath of that, when they came after several people and sent some of them to jail, they had a picture of a guy who was up above on the on the road, yeah, trying to present him as a sniper, and he was down this is one of the protesters side, and he was down behind this concrete barrier there, you know, road barrier,
and so was a woman behind him. And so in the court case they said, so why is the defense attorney They were trying to make this guy out to be the aggressor and the only threat that was there. And the defense attorney says, so why were you bending downside? Sorry, you can't ask that question. You know, obviously he's hiding behind the concrete barrier because they were threatening to shoot us, right, And they said you can't ask that question.
Well, and there's that's the case I wrote about for USA Today, and it's fascinating. A crux of that case and part of the reason there were armed people there was was the Bundes feared the FBI put snipers around their house to kill them.
Yes they ruby Ridge, Yeah they did.
There was actually some of the guys there cleaned out a sniper's nest one night there, and that's interesting.
Yeah, okay, I wasn't aware of that, but I know the there was a federal judge. Her first name was Gloria, Hispanic lady. But so the so the Feds, I think in the retrial of maybe the Bundies themselves, the FEDS finally admitted that yes, they they did have snipers around the land or the home of the Abundanes, and so there was a real threat, whereas what the what the Obama people had done was trying to portray them and
then the Trump people as well. Uh, it's betrayed those protesters as just kind of complete liars on trustworthy troublemakers because they were saying they were FBI snipers around their house and of course that's nonsense. But when they when it finally came out, the federal judge was so furious, I think she just threw the entire case out of court.
That's right, they would have hung all of them. I mean, you know, if there had been there was a BLM agent who became a whistleblower.
He was great, he was great. Yes, And if it had.
Gone, if it hadn't been for him, that judge would have railroaded because they did already send several people to prison for long prison stances. And I didn't follow up on that to see if they got a pardon with it or not. But basically, with the whistleblowers information, she realized that they'd been lying to her and that got her angry, and so she acquitted them with you know, prejudice or wife so they couldn't come after them again.
But she had been really rough in terms of shutting down obvious questions like that, you know, why is this person hiding a crouch down behind a concrete burier like that? And other people who didn't have guns were doing the same thing, and it was simply the answer is because I was there heard them yelling get back, you know, disperse, we're going to shoot, you know, and they had their guns pointed at us.
Wow. Yeah, wow, Well.
It's pretty just good that it's good that didn't make you lose faith in the system.
I didn't have any faith in the system to start with. So yeah, I didn't lose any more faith in the system. Well, no, I don't have any faith in the system at all. It's a that's great, Well, tell us what you're up to. And I see a book there in the back, last writes, Is that a recent publication that you had?
Oh, that's the most recent book I've got.
Last rites, it's an update of all the different government crimes and abuses I did loss Rights over thirty years ago. And last writes is how things have gotten a lot worse since nineteen ninety four when the Loss Rights came out.
I was scraping the bottom of the barrel. Now at this point, aren't we It's.
Well, well, there's a lot of good examples to write about, but I don't know.
How much good it does. So I'm I've got the books I've got.
I write for various think tanks, Mazies, libertarians, to a Future Freedom Foundation. I do suffer New York posts. I do for some magazines. I've done some stuff recently for a reason. So you know, here and there, just just trying to hustle and keep positive cash flow.
And again, when you look at somebody who I've never seen more open contempt for the First Amendment than Donald Trump. I think he's surpassed Richard Nixon on this. Well that he's got against a Wall Street Journal that you've written for.
Yeah, I mean Trump and his lawsuits. It's like ten billion dollars because you said I sent a birthday card. Here's the freaking card. Okay, well yeah, but you know, but I'm still suing you. It's like, I mean, there's this is called slapsuits.
What's the.
Strategic lawsuit against public participation? I think is how the acronym goes. But Trump has done that so much. Oh yeah, and some I mean okay, I mean one of the things was most the soundings is that I think Trump was suing sixty minutes because of how they edited an interview with Kamala Harris.
I know, I know, and you had you had the.
White House Press sectory threatening a massive lawsuit. If was that CBS did any editing of Trump's Trump's interview or with them recently, It's kind of like, so editing is now crime or what?
Yeah, don't do any editing. Yeah, everybody has to do it.
Editing. I mean, the.
You've got a time you've got to fit this into So.
Yeah, I mean, if Crump was Sparder, he would realize he needs an ader as much as anybody his good lord. I mean, you know, going on for two hours, it's like he's inspired by Fidel Castro.
That's absolutely right.
Yeah, So you got your ticket yet for the Millennia premiere that's going to be today. So by a ticket you can have a private screening because you'll be the only person in the theater.
Well, this is this is gonna be interesting. I mean, I hope that there's not a war to distract how the movie does badly.
Mm hmm.
Well, it's kind of interesting. You know, we're talking about the law suits about don't talk about me and Jeffrey Epstein things like that, because they threatened a lot of people Milania did with lawsuits, as well as Donald Trump. And I think it's going to be kind of interesting what happens with Michael Wolfe, because they had threats of lawsuits for people who are repeating what Michael Wolfe had said, essentially that about Jeffrey Epstein, and I thought, well, why
don't they sue him. He's the one who is a source of information, So they threatened him with that, and he said, Okay, that's it. I'm going to sue you. So he's kind of kicked that off. It'll be interesting to see how that develops. I think we'll get more information out of that than we will out of any of the Epstein documents that are setting on Pam Bondi's desk purportedly.
Well, it's so brazen that the Trump folks have got total contempt for disclosure, contempt for federal law, contempt for their president's own promises and the top law enforcement officials promising, and it's like, Okay, it's almost as if they have decided that they don't need any credibility with most Americans and almost all the media because they are so power for they were so wonderful, or that they can get away with anything. So it's that's Nixon like in a way, as you said earlier.
Yeah, yeah, it is absolutely.
Well, he kind of got his start with Rogerstone, who's got a tattoo of Nixon on his back.
And that's one of the things I thought was me.
I worked there at Info Wars for a while and uh, you know, Rogers got that tattoo of Richard Nixon how does that square with the idea of being libertarian? I never could figure that one out, so.
Well, yeah, I mean it's I won't I will not ask you any questions about a former employer in his position on the shooting.
Oh yeah, exactly, Alex Jones. It's been disgraceful. I tweeted about that. I got a lot of people angry at me because when I said, I said, I can't believe I ever worked for this guy. But he completely flipped on the police state. I mean, he did documentary after documentary about police Now he is all cheering it, you know, as as well as foreign wars. I mean, he's just you know, money talks, I guess, and we can kind of assume who's paying him.
You know. Well, it's truly as amazing. Oh it might pay off his next libel lawsuit losing. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Well, Jim is great talking to you as always, And again the book is last, right, So that's your most recent one, and people get that anywhere books have sold, I'm sure, and they can find your your website, which we'll have I guess links to any of the articles that since you write for so many different outlets, they can go to jimbovar dot com and find your IPEd pieces there in your articles. That's the best place for them to find you, right, So.
Yeah, Hey, thanks so much for having me on. Thanks for your kind words, and thanks for keeping up the fight.
Well, thank you, and thank you for all the work in the research that you have turned up. I've done some very valuable research with that. Thank you, Jim, appreciate it. Have a good day. Well, that's it for today's broadcast. This is my grandson here and we're going to all try to stay warm. He's got a special penguin suit here. I want to thank everybody who is a hoarded us.
This month, weorried about seventy five percent. But we're going to go buy this afternoon Friday and check the PO box again and we will update the gas gauge to let you know where we wound up. But I, Karen, I see you, but thank you so much for joining us. Have a great weekend, and again, be careful with all the ice you. I the common man. They created common Core and dumbed down our children. They created common Past Track and Control us their Commons project to make sure
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