Joining us. Now we have a couple of guests, Doc Roberts and Jeff Weiss. And I know Jeff because I've been on with him and Trent Loose and he lives here close close by. And when I covered a couple of weeks ago, I covered a path away from addiction.
There was a guy whose name was Stoner, and that's the way he got started with was with marijuana, and he and his wife got moved into harder and harder drugs, and it was a sad story about how they were trying to substitute methadone for heroin and all the rest of the stuff and all of the side issues that happened when you become dependent on methadone and other things like that. And Jeff called me and he said, you know,
that's exactly what we do in our ministry. He's got a couple of ministries that he and Doc Roberts are doing. And as we talked, I said, yeah, you know, it really is. He's got a prison ministry as well well as a ministry helping people with addiction, helping people to not just get rid of that in their life, but
also to fill that with to fill that void. But I said, you know, when we look at this, I told Karen, I said, this really is about people who are maybe some of them realize that they are locked in a physical prison, some people are locked into a spiritual prison, and some people are in prison and they don't know it. And so I wanted to get them on and talk a little bit about the program that they got. So joining us now is Doc Roberts and Jeff Wise. Thank you for joining us, gentlemen.
Our pure.
It's wonderful to be here, David, and you know, as an avid fan of yours and getting a lot of my news and stuff from you, it's just a pleasure to be on with you. And I certainly appreciate you giving us as time. And it's funny you mentioned our journey and how we've came to where we're at, because our ministry is actually called free Indeed, and it's based on the fact that Jesus explained his statement in John eight point thirty two very truly, I tell you the truth,
The truth will set you free. Right, And you would have thought that pretty much would have cleared the air, But there was pushback, right, They're like, wait a minute, who are you talking about it's unfree. We've never been anything but free. And that's when he reminded them that you can replace anything bad in your life with something good. You can do whatever housekeeping you want. But if I the sun doesn't set you free, you will never be free. Indeed,
and I couldn't. I couldn't. You led me in so good to give you one particular story of what I use all the time, and that is freedom has nothing to do with your location and where you're at. I know, man, and my life has changed so much over the years and came into understanding I'm a spirit with a soul and a body, and that my spirit's eternal. And so I've met some of these men who quote, by our
cultural standards, have done some crazy, horrible, horrific things. But in the same breath, I've washed the power of Jesus Christ and the freedom that he can provide him the chains and the shackles that he can remove. And so giving you that example, we go and serve at the state prison here quite often to where we've taught our book in there before. It's being taught now. But I was going quite a bit and had a friend there and he had committed multiple murders was never getting out.
But I'm telling you what you could see the joy of Christ and this man he was a light to where he was. And when you met him and talked to this man, you would understand that there is nobody that's any more free than this man who will never see what we would consider freedom.
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, And that's one of the things. You know, People on the outside don't realize that they need him. And that's what Jesus would say so many times to the people. He says that those of you who are well ton need a physician. But the people that you mentioned, and you've said this to me, that you come across in prison, they're desperate for this type of thing and they're serious about it. Unlike many of
us on the outside. We are so distracted and we're living in this wonderful bubble that we live in and we feel like everything's just fine and we don't need Jesus, right.
Yeah. The only side of that, David is so then I go to guests speak at a large church two weeks later, and I visit and talk and meet people who are so shackled and imprisoned and have no idea they are. They are not in prison right physically, but spiritually, they are living in existence that is absolutely nowhere close to the abundance of life that we have been created
to have. And that's what Doc teaches and we teach in our book that there was a blueprint to how to live this life, and so we call it the Jesus Fuilter. So once you start going outside of that, that's when a disaster ensues.
That's right. Yeah, I wanted to get you guys on especially this time of year, because we've got the New Year's coming up. A lot of people are examining their life, thinking about, you know, things that they would like to change that they don't like about their life. And you don't have to be addicted to drugs or to alcohol, or have some other major addiction to sex or anything like that. But there is really a freedom that I think a lot of us are missing. And you've got
a book that's called Your Ministry is Free. Indeed, You've got a book about that. Your current website, I think is the word says dot net? Is that correct? And you've got another one that is coming up that's going to incorporate free Indeed? Is that right? Yes, yeah, And what is that website going to be in case people see this and repeat.
Oh, it's so wonderful, David, It just rolls off the tone I'm freeindeed dot.
Com there you go. Okay, that's great.
Ultimately, when you look at the scripture and John and I want Doc to go in and speak to all of this. But that is the purpose in this line and how we make a difference is we become free through Jesus Christ. We begin to live in Christ, and we learned that the total secret is to be able to love somebody else more than we love ourselves. How cool is that?
That's right? Yeah, yeah, that sounds like what Jesus said. Tell us at atle bit about your background, Doc.
Yeah, I'd be happy to thank you. Well. I was oldest in five and I first experienced alcoholism when I was fifteen. I had an aunt who passed away and it just broke my heart and I couldn't understand it because she was the only one that followed Jesus Christ in my family, never went to church and it was
devastating to me and probably David. For the next forty years, I probably didn't have a day go by where I didn't have some kind of artificial substance in my body that altered the way I thought and how I felt. Then about sixteen years ago, I met Jesus in my garage. I was a broken man. I was a broken soul and been searching to that void you talked about. And that's the thing. We have to first understand there is a void, and I know understand what that void is now.
But I came out of that meeting with Jesus a completely different person. The desire for me was taken away because I wanted it to be taken away. I knew there was more to life than what I was living. And I'll have to say I've never met a person that hasn't thought there's more to life than what I'm living, that have the questions of why am I here? What's the purpose of all this? Surely I wasn't just born to be spanked on the butt to start crying to when I'm laying in a cough and throwing dirt on
top of it. There has to be purpose to life, and you know I discovered that purpose because this God designed it only one way, and that is through Jesus Christ. And what was on my mind, and we were talking about being stuck and being in prison, not only the jails, but in our own mind. I find today what so many people are addicted to is anxiety.
Yeah, that's right.
They're addicted to it to the point where they call it their own.
Yeah.
How we saw that in the last four years, you know, the fear that people have, the anxiety, and you know, they did all kinds. That's why I think we see this continuing thing about the face mask and the rest of this stuff. They hang on to that it's like the security blanket for them.
It's a security blanket they think, they think that's who they are, they identify themselves with. And I'll say, I was going to say, well, listen, why do you call it my anxiety? You're you're grabbing ownership of it, and as long as you want ownership of it, you're going to have it, and you'll never be relieved to relieved of it. And so what they do is they go to counseling and they get pills to try to help
all these anxious feelings. And so what they're doing is they're playing right into the trap of what it causes. And scriptor really says, you know, in Philippians four four, through the anxious of nothing, but in everything and everything given a questions and to God and robade them to the rest. But I will tell you how it is, and you will find cript peace that is in Christ Jesus. Yes, and we all want peace.
That's right.
You know.
When I was talking about it, one of the things that I thought was really amazing about that article when they tried all the different psychological things, and they tried other substitutionary drugs and everything, and then they talked about other types of programs, you know, like Alcoholics Anonymous where they have a kind of a generic higher power or something like that, and then people who went to a Christian counseling and Christian help and that type of thing.
And it was amazing how much more effective the Christian counseling was than anything else. It was more effective for them to go to Alcoholics Anonymous or something with a higher power than it was for the substitutionary drugs. But the thing that really was very powerful was the Christian counseling.
And it was kind of interesting because Anthony Hopkins is the actor, has talked about this several times, and he talked about how he struggled with alcoholism for many decades, and he would push back against even the alcoholics anonymous. Finally somebody said, well, why don't you just give it a try, you know, and he said when he did, it actually changed his life. And and that's that's I guess what you're talking about as well.
That's what Jesus does. He changes, he is his lives. You know, I've been through celebrate recovery. I've been in a recovery years ago, and now that I have this relationship with Jesus, I've come to realize that we even hold ourselves short by even using the word recovery. Yeah, when we recover, we're going back to the place we were before we started, and that wasn't a good place
for me to begin with. So what we talk about is transformation being changed, where now you don't have to no longer be identified by that, but now you're starting to be identified by your life in Christ and in God. Because guess what, that's who our real identity is in anyway, Yes, and it was taken from us. We gave it away in the garden, and ever since then, mankind has been trying to find their identity in the world and guess what,
it's not there. Yes, And we struggle so much in this world because we're trying to get these spiritual needs of love and worth and value and security in our being from the world. And God set it up and can only come through him through Jesus.
That's right.
And we realize that and we step into that, and we step into that. There were starting to understand that void you mentioned earlier. It's starting to be filled with what it was designed to be filled with.
Yes, yeah, and that's what Jesus said when he began his ministry. I've come to free the captives. And so I think it really is interesting that. And of course, Jeff, I know that you also work with people Christians in Pakistan who are under tremendous persecution there when we talk about that coming up here. But the other two things, you got so many different irons in the fire here. The other two things, the people who are in prison and the people who are spiritually in prison, addicted and
that type of thing. Just talk a little bit about what you tell people with your program, what you do in terms of going through the Free Indeed book.
Well, the first thing, and you just said it that he came to set the captives free. The problem is most of us because we don't have what we would consider a biblical worldview, right we don't understand that we are captives. So therein lies your number one challenge is having people understand that there is more out there. You know, I've heard, you know, one of the sayings when I was growing up was well lives hell and then you die. You know. We hear some of the old songs, the
old rugged cross. They're brutal, but when you look at their history, those were slaves trying to get through the day, trying to just make it till they actually died. Where what we feel like is that God came and through his son we were to have life and have it a as we live here, right That it is for you. But the scripture that comes to mind right now is the one where it says woe to the man who sees himself in the mirror and as he walks away,
immediately forgets what he looked like. That's right, that's who we are because of all the creature comforts. Now, I don't want to discount the drug addiction and what it has, but what we're saying is that if your identity is that I'm a child of God, they call me Jeff so that they don't get me mixed up with everybody else. Yes, I do real estate. Yes I'm pastor of a church, and I do all these things. He is hit, but that's not who he is. I am a child of God.
We use over and over the palm tree to where during a hurricane, the palm tree might literally be bending over ninety degrees, But the next morning, after it's gone, where is that palm tree standing straight back up? And that is to be our identity, that the storms of life, not when they come, they will. And so what we deal with and talk a lot about is spiritual warfare.
We believe in the full armor of God. And if you're going to pick up these pieces and put them on, you're going to have to admit that there is something going on that I need to defend. And I think that is why our prison, the jail ministries, the recovery ministries, the pat Pakistan ninety eight percent Muslim, but we're growing. We've got several thousand now following us in free indeed, there they're being asked to go preach and teach free Indeed,
that other Christian church is there. And it's because once you get that identity, that you have an eternal mindset, which is the biblical mindset. The woes and the arrows of this world that Paul speaks of in Ephesians six. Through the armor of God that will come, they don't have any kind of effect on you because you're eternal. We're in America particularly, we tend to judge everything by our last job, our last relationship that's broken, our last
critical time, have it's sick, or whatever it is. You know, we be the palm tree. We tend to be identified by that storm.
Yes, that's right.
We're. One of Doc's favorite teachings that he does so well is Jesus in the boat. He said, we're going to the other side, right, what's you deal?
That's right? Yeah, Yeah. That's the thing is that if people don't realize, you know, if they're their standard, and so many Christians their standard is just their circumstances of what is happening right now. And as long as everything's
gone on, fine, that's fine. But you know, if we got some kind of a storm, then maybe I'll turn to Christ and maybe something will happen there but there is a positive relationship that is there even when things circumstances are good, and that positive relationship is going to carry you through the bad times. And so you need to lean into that, grow into that so that you're ready for those bad times as well. And I think
that's the key thing. So many people, there might be people listening who are struggling because they're addicted, or you know, something is controlling their life. And it doesn't have to be drugs, you know, it could be a lot of different things. It could be sex, it could be your love of money, it could be bitterness. It could be so many different things that are controlling your life. But those are the most obvious ones when we talk about
drug addiction and alcohol addiction. But the key thing is to take an inventory of your life. I think this is a good time of year to start that and to see if there isn't something better, something high, or something deeper that people can find.
And there always is, especially deeper considered Jesus. You know, Scripture says I am in Christ and He is in me right, And if I may. The first chapter in our book, David is there is a God and it's not you. That's right, you know, And what we don't realize is that because of our sinful nature and the fall of mankind, we become our own individual gods. And we can just call that individual God or ourselves pride. And what we end up finding is the God of me pride is always in war with the pride of
God of somebody else. And then what do you have? You have kmos, you have turmoil, you have rage, you have destruction. And in all the ways that we humanity could have been created, that we could exist, why are we always at odds with each other? Why are we in a state where there's always sabotage and relationships and we're hurting each other and we envy and we murder, and why are we that way? Because we couldn't have created any anyway? And you look at you look in Genesis.
I urge everybody meditate and study on the three first three chapters of Genesis and you'll see why humanity is in the plight that we are. Then as you move on, you now can see what the answer is to take us out of that plight. Because the spiritual issues and one of the things that we're naive about. I used to be naive about is that there is a spiritual realm that is over, if I may say, or rules
over the physical realm. Yes, and you know it's almost like Earth is a border between Heaven and Hell and the wars that this border called earth.
Yeah, that's good analogy. Yeah, And when we go back to Genesis, you know, as you point out, everybody thinks that their God wants to be God, and so he
got all these different gods fighting each other. And I think from a political standpoint, because I cover politics so much, we can see that in the governments of the world, all these governments, all these leaders think that their God, they aspire to be God, and so they want to First of all, most places like that, they attack Christianity internally, but then that's why they attack other countries, because they can only be one. I mean, it's it is this
mania to rule everything. All does come from pride, and that's one of the key things. You know, we always look at the sins that we commit against each other, whether it is murder or adultery, like in the life of David, and yet the thing that David was really punished for was pride, and it had a lot of consequences for the people who were under him, and that was something that we actually almost hold pride up as a virtue in our society, don't we.
Yes, yes we do, Yes we do. And if you you know, looking in Ezekiel and Isaiah and talks about the Lord, talk casts in Satan out of heaven, it was pride that God put and so the Lord and pride they don't mix.
Yes, that's right, they don't mix.
But that's the thing about it is if we can see that and how we were not created to be that way, that we were created in the righteousness of God and that's how it was designed. But because of the fall, and it just twisted everything around. And uh, when I when I first started really studying Genesis and spiritual warfare, I got that. I got this thought of what would an alien say if it just happened to look and study humanity for a while, what one word
would have come away with? And the word that kept coming in my mind was chaos. Just chaos, and it's sad. That's what we that's what the overear and we see that in the newscast. I don't even like watching the news because all that because I'm just so focused on getting people to understand the spiritual war that's not only going on into the world, but going on in your families and normally that going on inside of view.
That's right. Well, you know when you look at Genesis, uh, it's a chaos form without void at the beginning. And what happens The Holy Spirit hovers for that and brings order out of that chaos. And that's what can happen in our life if we submit, if we look for God. That is the benefit that comes from that that new creation.
Yes, sir.
And one of the things that we've focused on is an understanding is how in the Bible we've got all the tribes right, and how everyone was at war against each other. And we tend to look back at the Old Testament as something that doesn't repeat itself. Where man, I'm telling you what. We are in a culture where if you use apple products, you cannot just not use the other products. You have to dislike the other people.
You know. We're in a culture where sports, you know, you can't if you're a Dallas Cowboy fan, well you have to hate the Philadelphia Eagles or the Washington whatever they're called. Right, So we don't know now, but that is I think they're going back. Maybe I don't know. But the point is that this is how the enemy works because he knows if we all understood our identity one time, that this thing would be over with that, you know, the enemy would not be able to flourish.
And so what we what we tended to wind up talking a whole lot is about this that when you take your identity and sow politics that you know, I follow it a lot because I'm a listener of your program and love it dearly. But that's what when I see that people take identity, Yes, they take the identity as a as a political party, right, or they take identity as a doctor or a lawyer or whatever these
things are. And I would encourage all of us to begin to refer to each other as a child of God who is experiencing a period of being a doctor, right, a child of God who's experiencing anxiety. Don't don't help people say, oh, you've got anxiety, No you don't. You're a child of God. And we go through the Book of James. We've been talking about some what a great book it is, but it teaches us once you're aware of who you are. Number One I'm a child of God with a spirit, with a soul living in a
temporary body. And then I understand that I am in a war, that this is a spiritual war. I need to put my full armor of God on. We begin to be have this discernment and recognize the attacks as they come, and then when they do, we'll go right to the anecdote, which is always in the word, and in James Chapter four, Versus seven and eighty tells us, hey, when it comes, just submit to God. The devil will flee.
Right, that's right.
So if we're willing, it's we had to be seeking this as a thing. And most of us are so comfortable because of what I've talked to you about. I feel like we have just come through at least one full generation of what I like to call the abdication generation. We don't we abdicate everything, including the knowledge of something, to someone else, and we just believe the little cliff notes or the little crawl at the bottom of the screens all we need to know. Let somebody else do
the heavy lifting. Well it's not working out, Well.
That's right.
In any part of our society, that's right.
And that kind of dependency has been inculcated in people. I think going back to school, you know, you just tell me what to do and I'll do it. You know, you just kind of passively set there thinking that education is going to be them filling up your empty bucket. And that kind of passivity just permeates the society anymore. You know, I've seen so many people who we talk
about people being imprisoned in different ways. I've known people who were miserable in their profession, but because they had gone to college and they had a degree in teaching, or they had a degree as an engineer or whatever, well, I can't do anything else. I have to do this. You know. That's in a sense, you know, that is the kind of we can construct prisons around ourselves of
all kinds of things. Just like the heart is an idle factory, it is also a factory of prison bars that we can imprison ourselves and all kinds of things. Isn't it?
A lot of times our prison bars are shamed, guilt, Yeah, you're vengeance. Those are the things that keep us in our own sale a prison, are self made prison. You know, he wants us to stay right behind there and parents out there.
What we find in what we do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases and years down the road is when you meet someone and they either are a child of God experiencing whether it be alcohol addiction or drug addiction or whatever. The very first question that we always ask and want to know is tell me about your childhood and your parents, And what would be the percentage you would say the ones that don't even know who their father is.
It's way high, it's high most most of them don't.
Most, well, I'm talking three quarters as their.
Father wasn't involved in probably more than that, their father wasn't involved in their lives at all. Of Course, God set that up for the father to be the spiritual leader. So if the evil one can get to the father, I mean, he's got the whole family basically, you know, And that's sad, and that's just how he does it. You know.
That really has characterized the biggest change I think in my life. See how the family has just been torn apart. It used to be really a really big deal. You know, if you had a movie star that got divorced and got remarried. Now nobody would even think twice about that, you know, they had to hide it from everybody because it was going to be box office poison for them.
That was not accepted as something that was healthy. People realized how that was going to influence them and their children to you know, to to these types of things. And now it has just permeated our society. We've accepted it and it's become so destructive.
Yeah.
And if I'm by say, just people struggle in this life and it's a cliche, but they're searched for love in all the wrong places.
Mm hmm.
I believe. I believe, you know, the fall didn't didn't catch God by surprise and in his wisdom, you know. I'll just I'll just say there's a spiritual DNA need in us that we need to be loved. Spiritually, we need love, we need to express love, we need to receive love. Uh. And also we need to know that we are worthy, that we have value. There's a lot of people out there that feel I was a case at one time too. I just didn't think I was even worthy even begin to be able to fall at
the Lord's needs or mineed at him. And then there's a sense of security that we need to know, we need to know that we're safe, and these are spiritual needs that only can be satisfied through Jesus, because he is the way, the truth in the life to no one comes with the Father except through Me. And until we understand that, and because they are spiritual and the spiritual is deeper or higher than the physical, we know they're there. But we try to get him satisfied in
the world. And the world can't give you what it doesn't have, and that only that can only come from Jesus. So when we start realizing that and we start receiving from him, because He's already given it to us along across, we start receiving from him, and then we all of a sudden understand that's what we've been searching for all these years. And there's joy in that, and there's peace in that, there's patience in that. And now all of a sudden, you're starting to see how you're now loving
other people that before were very unlovable to you. You know, you're start having more patience with people that earlier you would just fire back at him. That's right, And it just starts changing you from the inside out because now you've got the Holy Spirit living in you and you're moving that pride away where you're letting him work on you instead of you work on everybody else.
That's right, tell us little bit about you said you met Jesus and the groad. Tell us a little bit about that, had you had you prayed to him? Well you looking out for him or what?
Hell? Always people will always kind of say, you know, I don't. I used to say I found Jesus in my garage, but he found me.
He wasn't lost, right.
And uh uh for years I was addicted pornography.
I was, I was.
I was molested by an uncle when I was young, and I really, as I look back on it, I got really confused about this love and lust connection because he was my father figure because I didn't have my natural father biological father in my life and mob two or three step dads. But uh, during that time in my life, and I was in my mid fifties, I was mainly just I struggle with alcoholism. And uh, I mean I got some good stories about how the Lord worked on that on me, but uh, I just got
to the point. I was in my garage and actually, actually David, I was looking for an article I like to write and I was looking for an article I had written, probably twelve years earlier in my garage, and it is basically quickly it was basically I wrote a dialogue story about a man talking to buying drugs from a man that he thought was a dealer. But it was actually in the story Jesus in described in disguise, and in that Jesus asked me. He says, well, why
do you get high? And my response in the dialogue story was because when I'm high, I'm free. And the response was was have you ever considered being high because you were free? And for some reason, at that moment, it hit me in such a way, and I woke that twelve years ago, so it's been over thirty years since I've written that. It hit me in such a way. I started crying, and I started crying out.
To him, and for the.
First time, I'll have to say, I had this experience of being held by a father I never had, wow, And it reminded me who my really father was, and the desire for the drugs the penography just seemed to melt away from me, and I knew this was what I had been searching for for my life. And the first thing I did was one up and my wife was experiencing alcoholism at the time, told her why it happened to me, and went in and deleted my porn site.
And I haven't been the same person since. And I mean, it's if I had any regret, and I don't this, you just move forward. I wish you would have happened much younger in my life, but who knows. The Lord may keep me in this body for another thirty forty years, because as long as I'm here, you know, I'm gonna be an advocate for Jesus Christ, because I know that's
why everybody needs. I know that's what they're searching for out there, and because there's searching for love, they're searching for value, purpose and everything in this world will fail you in that. And those are even Solomon's.
Words well, that it's in terms of the timing. It's always in God's timing, and all of that bad stuff that happened to you, that was all preparation for your ministry, wasn't it.
Sir, Yes, sir, thank you so much. And I know that now right now, and it's amazing what revelations He gives you with this and how some of those things that used to believe about yourself just melt away because you understand that's not who you are. But then again, you know, I was just spiritual mood at the time, and I had a lot of I'm still not.
Going to do.
You know, there's the saying I love that that you know, when when you're ripe, you're right, when you're green, you grow, And I want to stay green in Jesus.
Yeah, that's great.
Green and Jesus, your best things in the book you got that are doing in my book. Here one of our one of our quotes that we dearly love, David, and I'll share with you real quick. Here is from C. S. Lewis, and I know there it is. I highlighted it blue because I love this so much, and to be honest, it was a little deep for me. I partially part of this is I'm accomplished because I understand what this means,
and this is something I just I just love. I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
That's a great quote.
Yeah, yeah, And so that that for us is what the light of Christ represents, you know, and when we've seen what he can do, we also find that, you know, we have fallen asleep to the miracles as we have been presenting some Christmas messages lately. You know, we just got stuck on this whole. You know, Okay, there was a virgin birth and wait what you know, you get you get caught in realizing the miracles that got us to where we're at and talking about the people that
were witnessing that in anticipation of the birth of Christ. Right, and here we are two thousand some years later with all of the miracles, but they're so mundane now because we don't even consider that. And one thing that Doc had talked about, and the thing that we deal with a lot, is that people don't have a sense of self worth. Well, when you're aborting almost a million babies a year, is it any wonder that since nineteen seventy
three the value of alife has been discounted. When you see gang members on TV that are arrested for murder and they're happy because in their mind and their culture they have actually made it to the big time.
Yeah, and then you look at how this spreads out everything else. It spreads out to euthanasia. It spreads out to you know, physician letting people die. And you know, we don't have any respect for life at any level. We didn't have what about fatherhood? What does it say about the fatherhood as well? And a lot isn't worth anything bright, that's right. Yeah, yeah, we have held life pretty cheap. I think in twenty twenty, you know, one of the things that they were doing to people and
still holding it cheap. There's no no penalty for any of that stuff. But you know, when you're we're talking about this, and I want to I want to talk a little bit about Pakistan because I'm curious how did you get involved in that? And how do you how do you find people in Pakistan? And that kind of represses things, one of the worst places on earth to be a Christian in terms of persecution, And how do you find this people on? How is this? How does all work out? How'd you get involved in that?
You know, my unique uh I speak fluent heard you.
Wasn't here, Joris forgiving?
Yeah, okay, that was just no, it's crazy, David, how it all started. Now we're coming up on a two year anniversary of free indeed Pakistan, but about four years ago, maybe even more than that, you know, on Facebook, you begin to get these around the world, Hello, how are you? You know, or maybe even not that grammatically correct, you know, and like whatever whatever. So this man I thought, was doing this, you know, well, can I pray for you? Can I pray for you? And so we went through
several things, and so I'd throw it out there. Okay, okay, okay. But what struck me is we go a year, year and a half almost two years in this relationship, and this person from Pakistan had never asked for anything from me except for a prayer. So one day, what you know, tell me what you need. Well, anyway, long story short, turned out that submarine who I was conversing with is a woman who is now part of our family that we all dearly love. And she speaks English and she
was raised we have actually via the internet. We've never been there, but in the internet we've been out to the so called villie where she was raised, which is basically a little side of a mountain like kind of a cave that her mother still lives in. And her father was a Christian way back then and he wanted her to have an education, because as a Christian believer, you can't get any kind of a job at all
unless you convert. Right, So anyway, she started in her She showed me her little bedroom with a little hole in the side of it for whatever and then this little cock and she would move her cot during the day and started off with four or five children that
she began to teach at sixteen years old. And so now we're up to I don't know how many schools, but between eight hundred and one thousand students now, and she's an administrator over six or seven of these schools, which might say on fancy, but they live in complete poverty. So we've been able to come in. I was able
to ship books to her, and so now we teach free. Indeed, we actually have an annual retreat now that we've had two Bible camps where we do a solid, very hard, a long week that where they're in Bible camp and we teach identity in Christ and the freedom from this I am a child of God, right, I'm freedom that they give somebody right, we've even forgiveness is a big part of what we talk about in our book, not because the other person that deserves it, but because that's
what hinders the Holy Spirit from really doing its work through you, because of what unforgiveness does. Now, imagine living in a country where ninety eight percent of people hate you. So of the whole forgiveness ceremonies we've done have been so powerful. They didn't weren't even aware because it seems natural to hate the enemy. But they have been freed of so much of this, and it's a lot. I mean, it's just flourishing, David, you wouldn't I'll get you know,
I can get her on anytime. She loves doing this. She's on shows, she's been on with us, with Trent before, just soak because the things that there was one one example, one night I called her because we were preparing for an upcoming meeting and I'm like, Serena's dark in there. Why aren't you where? She said, no, we have no electricity. I said, oh, the powers of no. We did not have enough this month to pay our biit Like you know what, let me know will help you out? She said, no,
you don't understand. We found fifteen families with no food, Like, uh, why would we be so arrogant as to have power when we found these fifteen families back here that didn't have anything to eat, we went and fed them. We'll get power next month.
What a difference to that and the American church. You know, we're here, we go, multimillion dollar building. You know, I was just talking about what was happening with in Silicon Valiance said, oh this is really great, Like Christianity's on the move. There got Peter Tiles coming and you know, we've got this twelve million dollar building that we put up here and everything. It's like, I don't recognize any of that. It's what she's doing that's the real real thing,
truly is that's amazing. And of course there in Pakistan, as you point out, it's not just the fact that they will you won't be able to get a job, and of course, you know, who knows, we might wind up with something like that pretty soon as well, because I constantly cover people who are being dictated to violate their conscience and their religious beliefs, and if they don't, they are purged, they perche office social media, they're purged out of their job and so forth. So that type
of intolerance is working its way here as well. But it's even worse than that, because have they had any people in the group that you work with that have been harmed?
Well, gosh, yeah, we had about a year and a half ago there was we okay, so we had this issue. The roads are terrible potholes everywhere, and the way these pastors and the people that are working in our ministry travel was by these motorcycles. And so by the time they're thirty five thirty eight forty max, their backs are gone from up and down these roads. So anyway, we
were blessed and able to get them a van. Well she puts free indeed, John eight thirty six all over that and then I'm just like, hey, hey on here is this safe for us to do? She was like, oh, yeah, it's safe. Well it wasn't long after that. And I will tell you we can tell stories about our wonderful interactions with Muslims there because what we're told is not true.
The guy that does all of our type setting in Pakistan, I can show you all the stuff she does over there, all the banners and all the things that we have. He is a Muslim that does this. And she has told me that she has gone to him and he is reading some of this, and he is like so curious about this Jesus that we know because he knows him as a prophet, but yet he's terrified to ask
any more questions. Right, So, anyway, this moves along to where we're doing good in this jeering walla, this area that we're at kind of a Christian little area, and so out of the blue, the government decides that they're going to put a Christian on the government as an advocate.
Sounds good, right, yeah, so fast right, because the uprising they burnt ninety nine homes, they killed a baby, they burnt twenty churches, and the government's response was, of course to fire the guy that they were going to call as an advocate. We've seen one of our men beaten severely to an inch of his death because somebody took a page of the Koran threw it out in front of him. He by stepped on it, and they said
that he blasphemed the Koran. And so you know, this identity and to them, the reason that they're happy is they know every day could be that day for them standing up for Jesus. But now that they realize they're an eternal spirit with a soul that's going to live forever, and that we have a whisper of a life, and that things here are rubbish. They get all that and
they clutch onto them. So that's why, although I was happy to talk about some of the drug addiction, you see now while I'm saying that this is so much bigger of an issue. It's identity. Who am I? You know what I have decided? Once you say you're a believer, there are certain conditions to all this. We want to act like in our culture. Oh, say a little prayer, do what you want, go to church on Sunday, be a good person, and you're going to go to heaven.
But if you read in the Bible, there's nowhere anywhere that substantiates that it is purely conditional for those in Christ. Therefore, those if you're in Christ, you're a new creation right roman day one. You know that there is no comb condemnation for the Oh in Christ, that's right.
And you miss that that richness, I mean the fact that these people can be content with their life, probably more content than most Americans under these difficult circumstances. That is the thing that we're missing here. You know, we have so much and yet it is so shallow, so materialistic, and they can transcend that and a large part of that. And we can always look at this in our own
personal lives. So many times the difficult things are the times that we grow and we get closer, and you know, just like in your life, Doc, the fact that you had such a long, difficult period of darkness makes the light so much sweeter, doesn't.
Yes, it does, It definitely does.
Well. Not only that the whole idea of testimony, this man has been able to sit eye to eye with countless people, person after person after person, on one on one basis, and that person No, just in last week or two, I had a situation here at the house. There was a worker and you're a pastor. I'm like yeah, And he was at a breaking point. I mean, this guy was ready to give it all up. And so you know, he reaffirmed is a love of Christ, and he said, hey, will you do this with me? I said, well,
I will, but I got somebody else. And so, because he had suffered a period of alcoholism, was still in the throes of it, and that evening Doc had about a forty five minute conversation with the man because I knew that was the handoff, right yea, six months after I'd been saved, the guy that led me to the Lord said hey, there's a guy who needs you to talk to. I'm like, it might not only been sent six months. I'm like, what are you talking about. You're
the pastor, you're a world evangelist. He goes, yeah, but I've never been divorced. So this concept is what the Bible teaches. You know, you want to hold someone's hand, and who better to hold someone's hand than someone who has already walked the path that that person is maybe going to be walking down.
That's very wise. Yeah, it's very true.
And saying in the same token, uh, it doesn't matter what that path is, Jesus is the is the antidote, that's rights anecdote for all the bars that we were behind in our own prison. And uh, you know, uh, I'd never if somebody had told me years ago I'd be doing this, I'd have thought they were crazy. No, I'd probably ask them what they were smoking, to be honest with you, let me ask. But you know, uh, Lord's plans are not my plans. And I'm learning every
day to be that light for others. Because you can talk a good game all day long, but if you if you are not demonstrating that in experience, because we know life is just accumulation of experiences. And I tell these men even listen, I've never been incarcerated, but I could have been. But the Lord. The Lord touched me to start a local jail ministry about twelve years ago. But then I found out that ninety over ninety five percent of the people that are in jail or prison,
it's somewhere down drug or alcohol related. They're always usually not a they're not a sober mind. You know, when the crime, whatever they've done, they've done. So you know, like you said, the light is the brightest, words the darkest. That's right, and a lot of times that's where the darkness, it really is the deepest.
Well truly is amazing what you guys have been involved in. But of course, as you'd point out, it is Christ who's leading you to that, leading you through that, and helping you to lead other people out of that. But it is it is wonderful to go back and to look at the power, especially as we're coming into a new year, the power that Christ gives us to completely
change our life to give us a new start. And I just hope that everybody takes a look at it, because there isn't anybody that's arrived there in any of us who can't find some richer deeper walk with Christ, richer deeper meaning in life coming up in this next year. And so it's great to talk to you guys again. You've got a book free indeed, you've got a website. The word says dot net. Of course, that's going to read direct to your new website that is going to
be up pretty soon, I guess. And anything else you want to tell people before we go any other.
I just wanted to leave with this word of hope, and I think it's the first scripture that comes into our book. And our hope is that people would embrace the fact that being free indeed is something that's attainable in this life. Yes, not to get in to this attack. And so Second Corinthians, Chapter three, verses seventeen and eighteen say this, Now the Lord is spirit, and where the
spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. And we all who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's are being transformed into his image with ever increasing glory, which comes from the Lord who is spirit. Yeah, get your identity going this year, make that you're you're not New Year's but the rest of this existence on earth. To understand the spirit with the soul and this body is very temporary.
Yes, amen. Well, thank you very much, Jeff Weiss and Doc Roberts, Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for the positive message that all of us can benefit from. Thank you so much.
Thank you, David, Thank you, thanks for having us. Thank you.
Good day, God bless you.
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