In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. It's the David Knight Show.
As the clock strikes thirteen, it's Friday, the twenty fourth of August. You're of our lord, twenty twenty six. Well, we're going to take a look at some news besides the war. But of course, the time is running out on Donald Trump. According to the law law, which laws are we going to obey? You know, there is this law that was put in. Of course, they've already ignored the constitutional requirements for having a war. They've ignored God's law,
moral law. There is another law that they probably will wind up ignoring as well, and that is that he can only you know, go unilaterally into war for sixty days and before he gets congressional approval. So we're going to talk about that as well as some other strange and entertaining news first.
Then we got a couple of great interviews coming up for you. We'll be right back. Well.
Copyright law. Copyright law in Japan is very strictly enforced, and of course here in America it is as well, but not as strictly as in Japan. Here in America
they use it frequently for censorship purposes. I pointed out the very first censorship that info Wars got was the report that I did about the creation of the Federal Reserve on the one hundredth anniversary, and it used a few clips from Its Wonderful Life because there were bank runs, there was a banker character that was patterned after JP
Morgan and some other things. But there was a lot of commentary in it as well, and those clips were part of fair use, as well as the fact that the movie itself had been on YouTube for several years had over a million views. That's where I got the clips, by the way, And so it is an interesting case that happened here in Japan. A man is being sent to jail for publishing movie spoilers. He described a Godzilla movie in too much detail. Now, when I saw that,
I thought, how much detail could there possibly be? And a Godzilla movie? And I remember this one scene. I thought it was a horrible movie. I don't remember anything about it except one scene. It was called One Crazy Summer. Maybe you've seen it, and there was one scene in it.
I'll set it up. There's a character in it and he's they've got this big business meeting it's kind of a party and they have a big real estate project that is coming up, and they've got some Japanese investors that are there, and so they have a really big model city that they have set up to show what the project's going to look like. Well, this guy goes back into a trailer and he finds this Godzilla costume.
He puts it on, he's playing around with it. Then he realizes he's got to be back in the park. There's something he's got to do. I don't really remember the movie that well remember why he had to go back, But he couldn't get the costume off. So he goes back to the party, and that's where it picks up with this clip. There's a guy sitting in a wheelchair. He's got a cigar and he's done with it and he flicks it and the cigar goes inside the open mouth of the god Zola costume and sets it on fire.
Now the Godzilla character is smoking out of the mouth. It comes running out of the bushes. Now he's going through the model city. He's Tommy, looks like the real thing to me, And the Japanese guest is very impressed and very happy with that he thought they did that in his honor. So the question is, you know, these Godzilla movies are so much alike, how did he do a spoiler on that? Well, his offense was running a website the published detail spoiler heavy write ups of popular films.
So the two films that they singled out were Godzilla minus one another one that covered the Overlord anime adaptation, which I think about that either.
Sada certainly wasn't talking about the previous Godzilla movie when he gave me a spoiler ridden thing that got him eighteen months in jail.
Yeah, it's crazy.
The Japanese law prohibits creating a quote new work by making creative modifications to the original while preserving its essential characteristics. So obviously this is very subjective. Anybody that does a movie review, the court could sit there and say you gave too many details. You know, are we supposed to know what that is? By the way, I looked at this and I thought Roger Ebert went and last a
day in Japan. He was Corsisco and Ebert, the two guys that had thumbs up back in the day when I used to follow movie reviews because of the store that we had Roger Ebert won a Pulitzer Prize, But I've never seen a film critic that was worse than Roger Ebert in terms of giving the whole plot line away. I mean, he just everything that he'd Every review he did was a spoiler.
So mentioned this before.
I had thought that he was jailed for releasing spoilers about an upcoming movie, Godzilla movie, but I didn't realize it was one that had already come out, that has been out for a long time. Anyone could get this information.
Anyway, in case you haven't seen the movie already, says preserving essential characteristics is exactly the kind of vague standard that gives prosecutors wide latitude to decide which writers get charged and which ones don't. The key part of this, of course, is the fact that he made money, made a good bit of money, and twenty twenty three AD revenue reportedly brought him in two hundred and thirty nine thousand dollars. Maybe we should start to hew movie reviews
rust the jail time here. Mondization is the hook the copyright enforcement loves, but the logic cuts further than anybody involved seems willing to admit. Most professional entertainment journalism runs ads. Most reviewers and recaps described the plot. The question is not whether his site was tasteful, but whether or not the Japanese state should be deciding how much of a description is too much then telling people that disagree with them.
So again.
The reality, however, is that we've been failing people for an unconstitutional, un war on drugs for smoking weeds. I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying prohibition is a horrible idea. And so that's been rescheduled, I pointed out yesterday by Donald Trump. Actually it wasn't Donald Trump. It was announced by his Attorney General, Todd blanche Yes.
Before we move on from the copyright thing in Japan, it's just gonna comment that one thing I'd seen with all these new tweets from Japan with the new translation feature that they added to Twitter, is Japan has a weird obsession, fascination or not too much respect. They have a weird aversion to piracy in any form, like they have this too much respect for the copyright laws.
I guess I've used a lot of respect you and I've lost a lot of respect between the what we seen in terms of censorship and the fact that they have gone so far overboard, and I've seen so many abuses of copyright, especially we go back and look and Lance and I were talking about this earlier. Go back and look at the life story of John Fogerty of CCR Credence clutter Water Revival, and you'll see an unbelievable
abuse of copyright. But yeah, somebody bought his catalog and then sued him whenever we would sing or write a new song. I'm sorry, you sound too much like yourself, you know, copyright infringement. But what were you going to say, Lance.
Just that it seems from what I've been seeing in these conversations that they view piracy is bad or even worse than shoplifting. And yeah, it's very foreign to the American mind.
Yeah.
Well, one of the things you were saying was a lot of times, you know, people will try something and then buy it in order to have a copy of it themselves. It was really kind of the paradigm of music until YouTube became the greatest violator of copyrights ever.
You know.
That was the other thing that bothered me about the It's a wonderful lie. It used to be a situation. Everyone could hear music for free on the radio, right, and that would kind of what your appetite. If you liked that song, you go out and buy a copy of it. And so the real issue to me is whether or not you can If you've got access to where you're going to be able to play that right away with a streaming service or with YouTube or something like that, you have no incentive to go out and
buy it. And so that's really what has changed the landscape for people, I think. But I'm sure the big studios are still making money, you know, as they go through this stuff.
Yeah, it was a conversation about things that were made in Japan that weren't available in the US video game and someone put up a meme of give us stop pirating our game. Then the person responds, then sell it to me, and then the hang reach Outanese faces no, and the Japanese comments are like, what's the problem with this? If we aren't ready to sell it to you, then you can't see it, you can't play it, you can't do anything with it.
Yeah, different cultures, I guess.
Anyway, going back to this marijuana thing, this was done by an announcement on Twitter. Now, why didn't we think of that one hundred years ago.
With alcohol prohbition? Right?
I mean they went to all the trouble of passing a constitutional amendment to get rid of alcohol prohibition, and they passed a constitutional amendment to have alcohol prohibition. The eighteenth created prohibition, the twenty first ended it for alcohol. Why did you have to have a constitutional amendment to start prohibition and to end prohbition? Now it's just done by the wave of a pen by the acting Attorney General and he announces it on social media.
Isn't that nice?
I guess we've got warp speed prohibition. Just just do it without any process, right. I wish we could prohibit things the warp speed vaccine. Unfortunately we can't prohibit that. They absolutely will not prohibit that, but they'll prohibit these other issues, moving it from a Schedule one to a Schedule three. So it does at least acknowledge. The federal government has been exaggerating marijuana's dangers ignoring his potential benefits for half a century, says Reason magazine. And it talked
about half a century. It's been longer than that. It's going back to reefer madness. And we had Jeff Session, and who was Trump's first attorney general was probably he was very heavily involved with the big case of reefer madness. I've never seen anybody more obsessed with it. I thought that Jeff Sessions was going to be a good Attorney general,
frankly because he had come after Panera Leon Panetta. I'm sorry, not Panera, but Panetta, Leon Panetta, Lion Leon Panetta, who was saying, you know, he's engaging him and saying, you're not going to put troops in Syria? Are you not about getting our approoval? Right, Well, we'll let you know what we decide. We'll talk to the UN, we'll talk to NATO, We'll let you know what we decide. He goes, well, you've been a congress man. That's not how that works,
you know. And he was kind of weak in terms of he's kind of like whining about it, but it was still he exposed the fact that Lion Leon was going to do whatever he wanted, and he was absolutely contemptuous of the Constitution and of congressional approval for their war. But so I thought he was going to be a better attorney general than he was. Turns out that he didn't have all that much respect for the law when he became attorney general. It was just whatever he wanted.
You know.
If it was something that he wanted, then he would follow the longer procedure, but if not, he'd forget about it. Well, we have some new Epstein news. It turns out that there is a woman who was a Swiss finalist in the Miss Switzerland beauty contest, and she received a personal invitation from Donald Trump to come participate in a beauty contest, a beauty contest that was organized, she says, by Jeffrey Epstein. She was brutally sexually assaulted, she says, and thirty three
years later, she was twenty two when she came. Thirty three years later, she is filing a lawsuit. She says she wants to force Trump to testify. She said that he said to her stay quiet and I'll take care of you. So there's going to be a lot of information coming out about that. I bet Beatrice k e u l cool. Anyway, she wasn't cool with what he did,
So we'll see what happens with that. Meanwhile, as I pointed out yesterday, the House Oversight Committee, Republicans are split over whether or not to give a pardon to Gallaine Maxwell. And this is truly amazing. You know, we're looking at the amount of money that they spent against the Republicans
spent against Thomas Massey. For example, you got all these Zionist billionaires who have lined up, you know, big Bucks to his primary opponent, and even the GOP House has their congressional fund, has kicked in lots of money to oppose Thomas Massey. These people, meanwhile, are playing footsea with Epstein. I look at this and it's like, I don't know. I don't think even with all that money, they're going
to defeat Thomas Massey in his district. People know who this guy is, and he may wind up being the only Republican left after the midterms in Congress. Wouldn't that be something? So yeah, they said, well, we don't really know. There's some people who want to do it, think it'd be really a good idea. But yeah, you think that'd be a good idea. Israel, meanwhile, is having a gigantic
Pride festival. Never had one this big there before. And of course they have had pride festivals, They've had LGBT areas, big areas in Tel Aviv. They've been actually one of the pioneers of all of this LGBT debauchery and degeneracy. The Middle East largest ever LGBT Pride festival we held in Israel at the Dead Sea for four days beginning June the first. And so the point was not lost on a lot of Christians who believed that that was the area Sodom and Moore, that that had something to
do with the unusual nature of the Dead Sea. And many people said, here we are, you know, recreating this right here at the site of Sodom and Moore or very near it. One person who was putting it together, the producer Aaron Cohen, said, this is not just another festival. It's the biggest thing we've done here. And so this is being organized by Aaron Cohen. I thought it was being organized by Nathan from the Edward G. Robinson character
from Cecil be to Meals to ten Commandments. I wonder if they're gonna have a golden calf out there, But anyway, so it is a golden calf, proverbally and proverbally anyway, he said, So we choose to grow, We're going to take an investment of millions of dollars, purchase entire hotels for four days and build a city from scratch in the middle of the desert to celebrate debauchery. How did that work out for the original Israelites?
Right?
But, as one pastor pointed out, Tom Askell, a Southern Baptist pastor, he connected with Mike Huckabee on social media, and he said, it's events like this one that lead Christians to neglect celebrating the modern state of Israel. He said, I'm not interested in celebrating any aspect to the modern state of Israel. Has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, he says, ambassad Huckabee. Yeah, you want to say something of it.
I mean you want to talk about similarities between Solomon and Moora. They're the ones raining down the fire and brimstone on people just because they happen to.
Want the land. That's right.
Them doing this pride parade doesn't change the other things that they've done. Whether they do it or not.
That's right.
So Tom Askell, says investor Huckabee. Wickedness like this is why Christians take issue with any thought of standing sold shoulder to shoulder with and celebrating the modern state of Israel.
That's right.
And of course, you know, you see so many pastors out there say they don't need any forgiveness. It's like Paul White and this Hagey guy in San Antonio. These are spiritual advisors quote unquote to Donald Trump. They say they don't need any forgiveness. They're descendants of Abraham. Well, the reality, folks, is that God doesn't have grandchildren.
It's just that simple.
You will make that you'll make that relationship yourself, or you won't have it. And of course, when Jesus was there being confronted by the Jews of his day, the Jewish leaders of his day, they were coming after him. They said, well, Abraham is our father, and he says, no, your father is the devil. And clearly that is the case in many of these instances. Here meanwhile, Milania Trump is pushing AI on kids again. This time she wants to partner with Palateer. Of course, Pallateer is a pal
of mine. As this person tweets out this speech of her. As he comments, he says, this is Frankie Stokes. He says, bragging about empowering America's children by partnering with Pallateer, Open Ai and others to usher kids into an AI surveillance state takeover, using the educational system to do it. And we need to put that educational system in air quotes.
I'm proud that America's best technology companies, including Meta Volunteer, Open Ai, Adobe, Zoom Communications X, and Microsoft, had a chance to advance our mission to empower children with technology and education.
It's almost like a rerun of Green Acres. Every time I hear her talk. It's like avagabor, you know the stores. Anyway, Trump is now worth six and a half billion dollars, up from one point four billion dollars. Since taking office, He's more than quadrupled his wealth. Don Junior and Eric each jumped from forty to fifty million dollars to three hundred to four hundred million dollars, mostly through crypto. The broader Trump family fortune has nearly doubled to around ten
billion dollars. This is, I think, without a doubt, the most corrupt administration in the twentieth century and twenty four century that we've ever seen. Meanwhile, we had yet another manipulation of the commodity in stock markets by Donald Trump or people around him. Traders placed a series of bets worth four hundred and thirty million dollars on a drop in crude oil prices just fifteen minutes before Trump announced and Iran cease fire extension. Traders placed a series of
bets on the drop just fifteen minutes before. It is the third time just this month, and the fourth time in total, because remember there was one back about Venezuela. What was the timing going to be of the raid? It turns out that just today they have charged a Special Forces soldier for making money off of that Venezuela bet. We still don't know who did these others. What I'm surprised at with this is that they actually investigated the
one with Venezuela. I figured there'd be no investigation because I figured everybody would think that it was a Trump family.
They didn't want to find out.
But I guess, is this all the money that was bet or is this just the scapegoat?
Well, no, there was this.
I think was he bet like thirty three thousand dollars on that and he made he made over four hundred thousand dollars on it, So I don't know if he's the only one that was betting.
Because I heard, you know, much bigger numbers than four hundred thousand dollars. That doesn't seem like the bigger.
Numbers were the first one of these Iran oil things, right, there was a big bet place in the stock market and a big bet place in the oil market. I forget which one was bigger, but there was one that was nearly a billion dollars and that was with the Iran war stuff.
Yeah, I'm sure it's not the special forces guys betting a billion dollars at a time, that's right.
Yeah, he had about thirty three thousand dollars to put into it, and he made a little over four hundred thousand dollars. So that was the fourth one that happened, and they have charged him. The soldier has been charged with He made a little over four hundred thousand. They charged him with unlawful use of confidential government information, commodities fraud. This is a wire fraud and unlawful monetary transactions. I mean, they don't really stack the charges up on you if
they got it out for you. They do have it out for this guy. So they released his name, which is really not important, but he placed bets on that, so again it could be somebody in the military that placed these bets on these other markets, except the amount of money, as Lances pointing out, was much higher on these bets around the Iran war. Meanwhile, Teather has frozen three hundred and forty four million dollars of stable coins
that have been flagged for illicit activity. This is one of the reasons why you don't want to go near stable coin. You don't want to go near a coin even if it is backed by gold. These stable coins
are for the most part backed by treasury bills. But you don't want to go around any of this stuff because the reason that they're pushing this is because it has all of the surveillance control and all the ability to freeze the account just like a central bank digital currency, and so be aware of that these things they're trapped. As Admiral Barr says well, Meanwhile, gold demand is anchored in a mispriced risk as China is buying much of it and showing that it actually is an opportunity. It's
a dip and it's on sale, folks. That's the reality of what is happening with gold right now. China is taking advantage of it, and as we were saying yesterday with Tony Ardaban, it is pretty clear that all the fundamentals that have been their driving gold in the past are all still there and much more fundamentally in favor of gold going up and the dollar going down in the long term. Well, Thomas Massey, as I said before, he's getting massive amount of money spent against him by the GOP itself.
And so.
He had the nearly one hundred thousand dollars of his campaign funding of his opponent has come through the Republican Jewish Coalition pack that's not including the amount of money that's been given by the Jewish billionaires, simply because you know, he doesn't have anything in particular about saying, well, we're going to continue for an aid to everybody but Israel. Now he wants to get rid of it for everybody.
That's the same reason they came after Pap Buchanan, and you got people like Mark Levin bragging about the fact and we canceled Pap Buchanan and we can do that, We'll do it again. You know, don't you know, give us our money. We don't care if you go bankrupt, butch you better give us our money. You know, you can't stop it for everybody. If you want to stop it for the other people, fine, maybe stop it for us. We will cut you off. And that's what they're looking
at here. So, as I said before, will Massey be the only one in the up left? He said, they have wasted ten million dollars in my race already. He said, imagine if they'd used that in Virginia where they just had an election about redistricting. He said, maybe we could have stopped that in Virginia. But that's not the thing that is actually their focus. Their real reality is that they want to suck up to Trump and to Israel whatever they say. And of course Massey is speaking out
about PISA as well. They were able to stop it at the last minute, a coalition of conservatives of the House Freedom Caucus, and they were able to stop the re extension of PISA. Trump wanted it extended without any reform at all. It called for it to be completely shut down when it was targeting him.
But he and the.
People who work for him are all about lawfair now and all about the surveillance state, and so they're back at it again. That was just a couple of days ago, and now they're pushing this whole thing again. They want to bring it up and extend it out to three years.
Today we're introducing a brand new bill that's long needed. Unfortunately, it's needed because there have been so many erosions of our Fourth Amendment right to privacy. You know, there's a robust discussion right now about the feisas seven two program, but really that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of infringement on the Fourth Amendment. There's so many other laws and Supreme Court decisions that have impinged on
your right to privacy. For instance, the Bank Secrecy Act, the Right to find Outantial Privacy Act, the Patriot Act. All of these have great sounding names, but all of them created so called loopholes in the constitution. Foreign Intelligent Surveillance Act not a euphemism, but misnamed because it's got foreign in it.
It's used to go.
After Americans secret applications of the Foreign Intelligent Surveillance Act. I've been in a skiff last week where I saw two secret rulings interpretations of FEIS the law of how the government has created additional loopholes to spy on you that I'm not even allowed to tell you these these were classified as top secret. And finally, the third party doctrine,
this is very troublesome. It's been expanded. It was a ruling, it's based on a ruling of the Supreme Court that allowed it was a six to three ruling.
I think it was a bad ruling.
But it's been expanded in its interpretation to include things like doctor's appointment records, bank record phone records. Who have you texted? All the metadata flock cameras for instance. Now and if you think about collecting information on bank records, that means you can get your gun records.
And this was done. This is not something I've imagined.
This is something that I learned about thanks to whistleblowers on the Judiciary Committee. What the DOJ did is they asked Bank of America, and Bank of America complied for all of the records of anybody who was here inside of a certain radius of Washington, DC on January sixth. They asked them for all of their bank purchase records for gun stores as well. It's completely illegal, but imagine instead of doing a query with one person, that you turn AI.
Loose on these databases.
Now there's virtually nothing the government can't know about you without a warrant if you believe that these infringements are legitimate, and they are not. That is we have created this bill called the Surveillance Accountability Act. This was conceived by Naomi Brockwell of the Ludlow Institute.
We've been working on it for years.
It's got the right provisions in it so that it doesn't impede legitimate law enforcement activity, and it's long needed. It closes these loopholes that I've explained to you. And more importantly, it creates a private right of action. You know, you can sue state employees of the government, but it's almost impossible to sue federal government employees if they infringe on your constitutional rights. So we put that that's the second half of this bill. It gives you the right
to sue the government the government employee. And this is one of the most frustrating things I've run into since I've been in Congress.
No accountability. I'll tell you what.
We'll have accountability if when somebody goes to work, it's not just fun and games. If they infringe on your rights. Are your constitutional rights? They could be privately and personally sued for that.
You know, the fundamental thing if I was in Congress, the thing that I would push for because I think it goes back to the middle of the twentieth century when you look at this, and that is the Supreme Court decision that said, well, AT and T. You know, of course AT and T is going to do whatever the federal government wanted them to do because they had a government granted monopoly on long distance service.
And so.
They said, you know, those are your records, and if we want to get David's phone records, since that belongs.
To you, you can just give it to us. And the Supreme Court went with that. Fiction.
Now, it'd be very easy to fix that, and if they did that, that would undercut so much of this stuff. I mean, you're talking about going in and getting records from all of these different businesses, all different types of things. Just go in and they just intimidate the people who are there, strong arm them. And if it's a large corporation, they're probably doing business with the federal government and so
they're not going to want to damage that relationship. So what they really need to do, and they have this in terms of medical records, for example, there's all kinds of prohibitions in terms of doctors and hospitals giving out somebody's medical records. You could make the same argument, well, hey, you're doing business voluntarily with this hospital, with this doctor, and anything that they know about you, that's really their information. If they want to hand over this information that belongs
to that doctor in that hospital, they can do it. No, we have prohibitions against that. They got to be prohibitions against all of this sharing by corporations with the government because it all violates your privacy. That's the bottom line I think with all of it. But it is a good point that he made in terms of how dishonest these different bills are. We've got a privacy bill they
call it, which violates your privacy. You've got a Bank Secrecy Act because there's not going to be any secrecy with the you got the Patriot Act and so forth. Everything that they do is a lie. You want to say something, Lance.
I was just going to say, at the time, when are they going to say that attorney attorney client privilege is something? At that point an attorney could just sell.
That's right, that's right, yeah, or just give it away, right. You know, Hey, you know, I know you'd like to please the government, so you want to give us all that information from your client that we gave you.
Yeah, it'd be like if Zuckerberg started a a lawyer service where sure you can get free lawyer, free legal representation, you just have to give up all your attorney client privilege.
Yeah, that's right, it really is. It's all based on that. That is all this stuff really is the fruit of that poisonous decision about the phone company owning your data. Well, the House Freedom Caucus members say they are unsatisfied with
the current language being discussed. The bill includes language that a section by section summary argued compliments existing law by restarting I'm sorry, restating existing Fourth Amendment protections for Americans whose communications may be swept up as they speak with foreign targets. It also requires queries of Americans to be reviewed by the Civil Liberties Protection Officer at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on a monthly basis.
Let me just say that is nothing but a headfake. You know, the whole idea of even having it's very similar similar to what they did with the fives of Court itself, which is nothing but a star chamber anytime you've got a situation where they can surveil you, start investigating you and you don't even know it. They don't have to get a warrant for any of this kind of stuff. And that's what's happening with these secret courts.
We do not want secret courts when you look at these no fly lists things like that, the fact that the government can set these things up, you know, that was the very first report that I did when I went to info Wars. Was a guy who was flying to see his flying to see his wife is in the military, and she was in Japan, and he was flying on a military plane, and he was somebody who was part of his work had been vetted by the TSA because he worked in an airport. He had been
vetted for gun carry and other things like that. And he's flying to see her in Japan. He gets to Hawaii, he changes planes there, he gets on the plane, it's about to take off, and all of a sudden, they stopped the plane. Federal agents come on and say, you come with us. You can't fly, you're on the no fly list. They stranded him in Hawaii. You don't have an airplane to get out of what's he going to do? Catch a freighter or something to try to get out
of Hawaii. Fortunately for him, he was able to get to some media outlets like ours, and he was able to get some publicity, and some people in the military helped him out. But he could never I talked to him after he came back stateside.
He was never.
Able to find out why he was put on that list or how to get off of it. This is why we have so much of the due process aspects that are in the bill. Rights to know what you were charged with, to be able to confront your accusers, to have an open and a fair trial. Everything the government does whenever they talked about being national security, it's
always hidden. It's always secret. And we can see the fruit of that kind of activity when we look at the bioweapon atrocities that are being done by our own government against American people, lyme disease, and other things that I talked about yesterday. So the section bisection outline says the bill would renew Section seven oh two for three years, which is longer than they had originally talked about. They originally talked about one half years. Then the House Freedom
Caucus stops it. So then they put together another bill and they extend it to three years, double the amount of time that the original one was going to be there. And so no reforms because Trump doesn't want any reforms. He wants a police state. Brian Fitzpatrick, a Republican from Pennsylvania, said he was satisfied that the bill did not include a warrant requirement, something he said would grind the process to a halt. Let me just say, we don't want to have warp speed due process.
Right.
The whole point of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is to have a process. Which, yes, of course that's going to slow down what the government does. That is by design, just like it's going to slow things down. If we've got to actually have a debate and discussion about whether or not we're going to go to war, we should pause and think about some of these things. But everybody, oh, let's just grease it through. We heard the same thing from Mike Johnson, the Trader of the House.
He was out there saying, I played the clip for he said, warrants. We can't do warrants. We don't need no stinking badges. Right, how long this would take us, Whether they're talking about the actions of Trump's gestapo ice or whether they're talking about Faiza. They don't want to have ny warrince that's too much work. It will slow things down. We got to do this at warp speed, and of course warp speed is how so many people were injured and killed because we didn't take the time
to do any tests. So I talked about this briefly yesterday, but James Talerico, I got another clip I wanted to play for you. He is really doubling down. I don't know how he thinks this is going to help him in Texas. And I look at this guy. He was out there twisting and perverting the Bible saying that God is non binary. And as I said when I played the clip the other clip yesterday, I said, well, you know they're all about people's preferred pronouns. Maybe you ought
to go with God's preferred pronouns. God's preferred pronouns are he and him, but he doesn't care about that. So here's what he had to say when he was on with Jake Tapper.
National Republican Senate Committee is already highlighting comments that you've made. For example, they're highlighting this.
God is both masculine and feminine, and everything in between between is non binary.
What is your response to them using that and explain what you were talking about.
Well, I understand that that comment is a little provocative. I said it on the house floor faults when the extremists in the Republican legislature were picking on school kids who were different. But I don't think it's contraard Zoologically, most Christians would acknowledge that God is beyond gender. In fact, the Apostle Paul, in his letter to the Galatians said that in Christ there is neither male nor female, and so if someone's got a problem with that statement, they
shouldn't take it up with me. They should take it up with the Apostle Paul.
Well, yeah, God's going to take that up with you. That is such a juvenile understanding of what was being said there. What he was talking about was the differences between different people. He said, God is not a respect to a person. He doesn't care if you're Jewish or gentile. He doesn't care for your male or female. He doesn't care for your slave or free. God is not a slave, right, he wasn't talking about If you look at the context. It's amazing how he took that out of context. He's
going to a seminary. I looked up the seminary. It's the Presbyterian Church of America. This is the liberal, mainline Presbyterian Church. They've split twice since then. They had a split the early part of the twentieth century. They created the People split off from it, created the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And then you had another split in the middle of the twentieth century, again away from the PCAs they kept going to the left, other people said no, no, we're
not going to go that direction. So they created did PC USA, I think is what it is. I'm not Presbyterian, but it's amazing it all began. Interestingly enough, the reason they had these splits in the early twentieth century was because the Presbyterian seminaries were saying, we can't trust God's word right, it's not infallible, and so that's the path they went down. And now they're going out there and
grabbing little bits and pieces pulling them out. This is the worst contextual violation I've ever seen, the kind of nonsense that he's putting out there, and it absolutely is nonsense. But he's also said that posting the Ten Commandments is violence, it's hateful. Maybe it's because he is so intent on violating the Ten Commandments that he sees it as violence. But he is storing up wrath, there's no question about that.
He and the Democrats. But again, this is the only thing that really keeps the keeps the Republican Party in business at all. I think is this insanity that's coming from the Democrats. So he says, I don't think it's controversial theologically to say this. Well, again, that reflects on the seminary that he's going to. As I said earlier, Trump has only eight days left to make up his mind about Iran, and supposedly they're then going to get
serious about the law. They've never been serious about the Constitution and declaring war because they decided that they didn't want to go with the Constitution and say that Congress would declare war. They created the War Powers Act and that lets the President do whatever he wants to for sixty days. But that time is nearly up, and I don't expect that they're going to do anything to call him back in line with that as well. Meanwhile, in London,
we look at the real threat to our countries. It's really the open border, and it's something that Trump doesn't really care to do anything about anymore. When you look at the bringing in people as refugees, he's actually doubled that. They've done a lot in terms of confrontation with people. I think what you see the so called immigration enforcement that Trump is doing, I think is over the top and it is far beyond a proportional response to what
people have done. There are orderly ways to do this, there are simple ways to do it. They have decided, like in everything else, Trump wants to be as confrontational as possible. He wants to lay the foundation for police surveillance state, he wants to lay the foundation for IDs and so forth. And so that's where we are right now. But if you look at what is happening in London,
this is a warning sign to people. London landlords have been caught advertising their flats for rent advertising Muslim only, or they put things like this for two Muslim boys, or for two Muslim girls, or suitable for Punjabi boy. Now think about if you were to run an ad to rent something here in America or in London, and you're put in their whites only would that fly. That would probably make it a national news for sure, much more so than this did, as many people are pointing out.
And course this is really what is given the wind and the sails to the Reform Party in the UK. They said it is disgusting and anti British. There would be a national outrage of the table's returned if it was whites only, and they're absolutely right about that. It is the two tier system that they have set up
in the UK. Well, they also pointed out the name Muhammad has also been the most popular boy's name in England and Wales for two consecutive years, with over five thousand boys given that name in twenty twenty four loan, so they should have no problem finding renters. I guess that's the reality. Uh where we are today. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
H m hm.
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Well, we have a couple of interviews that are coming up. The first one we're going to run is an interview that cut earlier this week. It's a book that was written not necessarily for somebody who's a seminary student that knows everything like Tolerico does, but I think it could benefit from this book. The key part, the key purpose of this book was to try to build interest in people. You know, a lot of people get very mechanical in terms of reading the Bible or they don't understand the context.
And so what our guest did was to try to come up with a way to approach the Bible that is going to help you to establish a relationship and something that should actually read and not just set on the shelf and you know, be in awe of it. Like Trump uses the when he goes to these things, he takes the Bible and holds it up. He doesn't open it up, but he just holds it up in
the air. But before we do, and then after that, we've got an interview coming up with an individual who is trying to get permit to do a large copper mine in Alaska, and we're going to talk about the obstacles to that and how the Trump administration is actually
working against what it wants to do in terms of manufacturing. Yes, there are a lot of things that can go wrong with manufacturing, especially with mining and things like that, but anything that whenever you do something, whenever you build something, whenever you mind something, there's going to be some risk that there might be some pollution or something like that, but there's also an opportunity for you to do it the right way. And yet we have seen the pendulum
swing too far, I think, to one side. So we're going to talk to him about the struggle that he's going through, and I think it's a very interesting commentary on where this country is and the problems that were saying. But before we do, I just want to mention some of the people who have supported the broadcast. It's a short list, it won't take too long, and thank them
for supporting us. We're still not quite up to seventy five percent or three quarters on the gas gage, but I would just wanted to thank some of the people who have contributed on Zell and on cash app. On zel we have Michael P. Actually got two Michael P's a different last name.
Of course.
One of them said, well, this is for the Mark Levin impersonation that she did, and I don't really do Mark Levin well unless I'm really in a nasty mood. I've got to have the right kind of approach because he just comes across as such a nasty person. He used to always I would hear him on the Rush
Limbaugh Show back in the day. I'd be in the car and Rush always called him the great One, and I used to say, even back then, I said, yeah, but the way you spell that is g r ate, because I always found Mark Levin to be very grating in terms of his whining, the way he speaks, but
especially what he had to say. So again, Michael P. And there's two different Michael PE's, Raymond G. Susan L. Thank you, Susan Brandon, m Scott L, Darryl L. And Daryl is a new contributor, I've not seen his name before, and Sally D. And then we have one contributor who has given us some money on cash app is very generous contribution.
Dave B.
Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So that any further delay, we're going to go to our interviews.
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We're joining us now is Tim mulgrew, and he's the author of a book of the story of us. It's really about helping people to read the Bible, to find it in a way that is open and engaging. We've got a lot of people who are looking with interest, and I've heard a lot of celebrity story about people like Tim Allen. I'm going through the whole Bible, you know, and it truly is amazing, he says, But you know, how do we do that. I've tried in the past.
I've tried the annual Bible reading thing, and you've got to be very mechanical, and it really was counterproductive. There's different ways to look at it. So we're going to talk to Tim about his suggestions. We have a lot of people, as I said, they're looking at this. We've got Bible sales are jumping, and yet we don't see that reflected in society. We don't see that reflected in our lives in many cases, and so we're going to
talk to him about what his suggestions are. Thank you for joining us, Tim, good to be here.
Thanks for having me.
You know you it's always important to talk about this. You talk about the fact that sometimes we look at the Bible as an idol. What do you mean by that?
Well, it's interesting because in the book, I say, you know, how many people have actually thrown an old, worn out Bible in the trash. We kind of feel funny about that, even non believers funny about throwing a Bible in the trash. What it basically means is we elevate the book itself to be more than just bound paper put together in a in a nice envelope for our convenience.
Yeah, well we never get started.
Let me jump in here for a second. Is like, well, that reminds me of is Trump. You know, when you walk in and he just holds a Bible. I was like, look, I got this thing, you know, and it's like it's like a relic, you know, right, I've got holy hand grenade here. Yeah, instead of like, well open it up and read it, what does it saying?
My whole thing is is that it's better to understand what the Bible says than to you know, simply read it or as most people just own it. Yeah, but we make the Bible, the book itself to be an idol, and then we basically are are harming our chances of ever understanding it because we're thinking too highly, not of what the Bible is, but the book itself.
Now your title, the Book of Us, well, look at that. I had a question about that as well, because you know, Jesus said, well, you look, you search the scriptures because and then we think you have eternal life, and yet they testify of me. And that is one of the reasons one of the things that I look at when what does this tell me about Christ? But it's really was it tell me about Christ and his relationship with me? And how do you see that?
So the Book of Us, it's kind of a play on words like the Book of Acts, the Book of Romans book. So generally I'm looking at the book the Bible as a whole book and trying to discover in there the human nature. In other words, you know, why did God think it was so important to capture all of these different events through history and all these different people preserve them for thousands of years for me to read today.
Yeah, that's right.
So when you go through and in.
The latter half of my book, I write each of the sixty six books of the Bible, there's a summary there that talks about what the human nature of the human behavior is. God basically wrote the Bible to us for us. He doesn't need a Bible himself to tell him how to be God. So it's clearly written for us.
But you know, if we can't find.
The relevance, then really it's just anecdotal history of something that happened to people a couple thousand years ago.
And why should I care now?
Right?
Yes, yes, yeah, the idea is to find ourselves in.
It, that's right.
And when I look at it, you know, that is a key thing. If you see yourself in that, look at how that person reacted that.
Am I like that? You know that type of thing?
And well, we are some favorite subject, right right, It's kind of it's kind of funny because we look at it and I've often thought about the Bible, you know, when there's so few physical descriptions of anyone or anything, Right, there's a couple of vague descriptions.
It's like, you know, David has got as ruddy you know whatever that means? You have red hair? Does you have like a reddish complexion or something? What does that exactly mean? It's at a bit ambiguous. But and he might talk about Saul being really tall or something like that. But that's the first thing that humans will do is focus on the appearance. Right, You'll get a big description of the setting that's there. You'll get a description of
what that person looks like, what they're wearing. Description. And yet that's not the way God puts us together. We see people unfold in terms of the way that they interact with each other and with them.
Right, yeah, right.
If if it was intended to be a historical account, they would have given us a lot more information. But they give us enough to turn our imaginations on. And the idea that is to picture yourself in that scene.
I always tell people when I'm teaching class that every time you hear Israelites or the Pharisees or any of the what we think of as villains in the Bible, you're supposed to put your name there because there's a lesson to be learned, and the lesson is more important to learn what happens to you and your behavior versus what happened to somebody thousands of years ago that you can't relate to.
So, yeah, that's a good good point here.
You talk about it not really being set up in a long timeline, and of course that's something that can be very difficult to do if you try to read it in chronological order, because the books, the books are not even laid out in the Bible in the chronological order. So like, you know, so what is the you know, this prophet when't he lived? You know, was this were they in captivity or was you know, who was a king? And what was it like in the times that he
was writing? That can become kind of challenging actually try to put into a timeline. But that's not really the point. Point out that it's written in a circular Eastern style. What do you mean by that?
So Western style writing is what you're referring to, that's what we're accustomed to. It's basically what I would call a data dump.
Fact fact, fact fact.
You put the facts in your head and then you're supposed to figure out when to use them. But remember that the Bible is written to be timeless. Eastern style writing is more you're supposed to experience what you're reading, put yourself in that scene. Because we remember experiences, and we can apply experiences in our day to day walk without remembering what particular passage it was from. We learn and pick up the lesson behind it, and that's a usable thing. That's what makes the Bible alive.
Yeah, that's right.
Also makes it very relevant to us.
That's right.
And I think a big part of that too is when we look at this, you know, when we talk about a daily Bible reading plan, you know, and that's fine, but I tend to think of that as something that you do kind of at the start, maybe if you didn't grow up in a church or something and you don't have this kind of a background. You're trying to get what we call when we do homeschooling or classical education,
we called that kind of the grammar stage. Right, you're just accumulating facts, and you know, you're like multiplying, memorizing the mulplication tables or something like that. It's hard, it's not necessarily very interesting, just accumulating facts, but it's necessary to have some of that because without that you can't start putting the bigger picture together, right. And so typically when we'll talk about classical education, we'll talk about grammar.
Then we'll talk about a logic stage, and they'll talk about a rhetoric stage, and so at each of these stages you're starting to put this together. But it's not simply an academic exercise. When we are Christians, you know, things are happening in our life all the time, and God is teaching us through those things that happen in our life. And so it's kind of a mixture of
the academic and the experience. And a lot of times, I remember when I was very young, I would read the psalms and it's like, this is the most boring stuff.
I didn't like it at all.
But now, you know, you go back as you're older and you've experienced these things said David was writing about, or whoever was writing that particular psalm, and it's like, yeah, yeah, that happened to me too.
Yeah yeah, Well, and that's of course what we find is that, you know, Solomon said there's nothing new under the sun, and that still still holds true today when you can understand and see the experience that the Bible is talking about and relate to the message rather than getting hung up on the details. So you're describing what I call milk, bread and meat. Most Christians don't ever really get past the milk phase. They read the Bible
through in a year. I remember, read the Bible through in eighty two was a big thing, you know, back in nineteen eighty two.
And there's always.
These gimmicks to get us to read the Bible. Well, it's it's interesting that a Christian should need a gimmick to read the very word that God has for them. But we do, you know, we're human and we have lots and lots of interest in life. But you're right, it's a good idea to go through the Bible cover to cover, as a lot of people say. But you know, the problem with a program that has a beginning and an end is that's how we also tend to read.
Right.
I started this, you know, the Book of Romans. So I need to finish the Book of Romans. And so my goal is to finish the book, not to understand the book right. Right, So you start with a passage and then you finish that passage and you go on to the next passage, but you don't have any idea what that passage means, So why go to another passage?
It's just a.
Passage like the passage you are on, right. In other words, we're always in a hurry to finish. That's really what Western style is as a beginning and an end, whereas Scripture doesn't have a beginning.
We're an end. It always speaks to us.
So the whole idea is to stop those habitual programs and say, I want to know what God has to say to me. That's what I'm interested in. That's why I'm reading the Bible, not because it's a duty or an obligation. I'm a Christian, so I have to say, as I've read the Bible fifteen.
Times, what good is it? Read it if you don't understand it?
Right, that's right.
If you kicked up a novel, you would read it the same way.
Right.
You'd be interested in the characters and the story and how it develops. And you know, Hollywood teaches us to fall in love with the character so that we feel emotions as the story plays out. And yeah, they kind of spoon feed the whole thinking process to us. But we fall in love with different things that we.
Can identify with. But we don't read our Bibles that way.
Like a textbook, and nobody likes textbooks.
That's right.
Yeah, And I'll read it, I guess. One of the things that I found is that I'll go through it and there'll be something that, wow, that what does that mean? You know, really strange? And and that's been the time when I really would would get something that would really hit me deeply because I'd sit there and I'd focus on it for several days. I'd be just I just stop right there, as you point out, don't just keep reading, you know.
Stop and well what was that about?
Right?
And if you and if you dig deep on that, and if you look at it, and then I would do different things, like, you know, read different translations and sometimes I'd get, you know, different commentaries or whatever. But you pray about it, and after all you start to see it and you start to see it in your own life as well. It really is kind of interesting to stop on one particular thing that you don't understand and focus on that. I think that's a very rewarding thing.
It is, without getting too granular on a particular passage, you have to keep it in context.
That's right, And you talk about that as well. Yeah, talk about context a bit. That's important.
We you know, we in fact, I'm I have a couple more books in progress here, and I was just writing about that earlier.
Today, we tend to love.
Our legalism, and legalism goes through and it picks out certain pieces of scripture and says there's a rule, we need to enforce that rule, right, but it's completely out of context. When you roll up to the thirty thousand foot level and you look at what's being talked about. It's not a rule at all. It's never intended. We drive people away from Christianity because they say, I don't want to have to follow a list of dos and don'ts and a bunch of rule books and all that stuff.
But that's not at all what scripture is. And that's the point I think most Christians are missing because we drill down, we find one little statement and we hang our hat on it without understanding in context what the writer was talking about.
That's right.
Yeah, that happens all over scripture.
That's right.
As some people said, a text without a context is simply a pretext after what you're reading into it, and I think that's really true. And you know, we look at it many times. We'll look at it if we say, you know, what is this telling me I've got to do right now? And it's not really about that. It's really about your relationship with God. It's not about a list of things to do to be approved by God. That's how Christianity's different from every other religion. Every other religion.
It's like, well, you do this, this and this, and then you get this at the end. As a result, Christ messages you can't do that. I'm going to give you some standards here that are impossible to meet. Now, there's going to be some things that if you do them, your life is going to be better. You're going to get blessings instead of curses in this life and just natural reaping what you sew, you know, good or bad.
And so there's that aspect of it. But ultimately our approval with God is based on what Christ has done. That's the Christian message, right.
But we would rather earn our way into heaven that way we have control over it. Right.
Yeah, nobody likes charity, as the Bible was.
If you approach this on your own terms, you won't make it. That's right, because God is the one in charge. Yet, isn't it funny that we're still trying to do things to earn our way even though the Bible tells us it's impossible.
That's right.
That's our human tendency.
So you know, my book is really about understanding what our human behaviors are, what our tendencies are, and we are the same as they were thousands of years ago. This is a pattern, it's recognizable. So if we can recognize it and we can control our behavior rather than trying to control scripture, we'll probably get a lot more out of scripture than we ever ever did before.
That's right.
Yes, you're talking about memorizing scripture without understanding it. And again, this is another one of these things like school level you know, it's one of the things that we would do with our kids when they're very young. You'd get them to memorize certain Bible passages. And there's a value to that. Just like you need to be able to memorize the multiplication table or you're not going to be
able to do a higher level math. Same thing is true with that, And you know part of it is, you know, hiding God's word in your heart so that it comes back at times, and it will do that. It'll come back so that you understand it at that point in time when it's actually something that you're going through.
Yeah.
Well, the problem is is that we start to take pride in the fact that we've.
Memorized all of these different things.
But if we don't understand the message, how do we know when to pull them.
Out and use them?
That's right, that's right.
My word is a lamp and a lighted too my path and a lamp into my feet. Okay, well I'm having an argument with my spouse. How does that come in handy?
Right? We don't.
We're not understanding the message that's there. And to me, it's more important to understand the way to be than what to do right and wrong?
Right, that's right.
Yes, So you know when you talk about textbook human behavior, what do you mean about that?
Throughout the Old Testament?
So it works a lot like medicine. In medicine, they gather a whole bunch of people that have the same symptoms and then they try these different medications to figure out. Hey, anytime we see this group of people and we give them this, it works, and that's kind of how medicine works. It's trial and error. You talk about human behavior. Our human behavior basically is entirely predictable. When you look at how the Israelites behaved towards God in the earliest of.
Days, I mean straight straight.
Out of you know, God pulling them away from the Egyptians. They're hanging out waiting for Moses to come down the hill.
And where they do they make a golden calf.
Why because they want something tangible to worship. And that's that's the struggle we have. We need to look, touch and feel. Having a God that we can't touch with our hands is difficult for us to actually truly commit our entire lives to So we have this tendency to create things. That's like making your Bible an idol. We can even make God an idol. You can make your family and idol. It's not that the Bible and the
family and these things are bad things. It's that they are getting in the way of a true, pure relationship with God. And so anything that does that is an idol. But we've been taught to think that it's a golden calf or a you know, a piece of wood or a stone or something you put on your dashboard or these types of things. But that's not it at all. It's anything good things. Most of the time people's good.
Things are an idol.
And it just prevents you from having a true relationship with God. What is it that God wants When we talk about restoration, what are we being restored to? We know what we're being restored from, but what is it we're being restored to. Well, if you go in the early pages of Genesis, God walked in the cool of the morning with Adam and Eve.
They hung out together, they talked.
Could you imagine walking and talking with God all day, all.
Night, you know, hearing everything he has to say.
This is what God wants to restore us too, the ability to have that kind of a relationship with him.
But that's not what we do.
We walk down the aisle, we say the Sinner's prayer, we convince ourselves that we're saved, we read our Bible, we go to school, to church on Sundays, and then we're waiting to die basically before we'll get to use our Christianity. And that's not the message of the Bible at all. The messages is reconciliation and restoration today so that you can have the relationship now. And scripture is all about the relationship with God, not the inheritance that comes at the end of the road.
Yes.
Yes, it's kind of like the lady the woman at the well, right, the smarton woman at the well, And Jesus said, if you knew who you were talking to you, it's like you're missing out of something really important here. And immediately, you know, when he tells her some things about her past, and it amazes her and it's like, whoa,
you're a prophet. Okay, let's talk about religion now. And so she starts talking about, you know, whereas you Judas worship God in Jerusalem, but it Smridan's worshiping Mount Garrison or whatever. And so let's talk about something different. Let's make this a little bit distance, right. It's a little bit too personal and up close when she does that, And I think we can wind up doing that as well, you know, we can whoa this is I'm looking at
all the different mistakes that you're talking about. We see this as a reading through it, and of course time is compressed quite a bit when you're reading the story. But you know, you see these amazing things happen, and people are walking really well with God, and then all of a sudden they just go into different directions like now in the world could they do that? And then you look at your own life and say, how did I do that? You know, we fall through the same things.
Well, we don't like pointing the finger our direction, and that's kind of why we're resistant to reading the Bible that way, because it really does make us point the finger at ourselves. It's so much better when you read through the first part of Romans. Paul starts off and he talks about all the bad things non believers do and how they behave. But as soon as you get to chapter two, he says, now I'm talking to you people who are believers, and the crime is bigger. Why
because you know better. They don't know better you do, and yet you still choose to be gave this way. So we don't like that that. You know, we're happy to point our finger at other people and say, you know, look at all the bad things these other people do. That's why we love the Pharisees and the Israelites and all that in scripture.
Because it's somebody else. Yeah, that's why I say replace that.
With your own name and see how that reads.
And it hits close to home. It's not challenged by it.
You're never gonna break down the walls that are separating your relationship with God.
God is there.
We're the ones that opt to stay away from him. Like you said the woman at the well, Well, I don't like the idea that you know all the husbands I've had, But let's talk about what the Jews do, right, Yeah, it's the same thing. That's a human behavior you see that you just picked up, and that's exactly what we do.
Yeah, yeah, let's let's argue doctrine. We can push this off a little bit further out than my personal life here, that's right.
Little, that's too close. And first of all, to talk about that right.
Well, we hate to think it, but we do love our sin because we have the power in us to never sin again and to live the rest of our life perfectly, because that's the power of the Holy spirits. We just don't want to. It's very unpopular to think that way, but we choose to sin, and we choose the sins we like.
Yes, they're not forced on us.
That's right, that's right. So, yeah, it wouldn't be a temptation if it wasn't something we liked.
That's right.
Pleasure, that's right.
You talk about as we're talking about sin, you talk about the age of abandonment?
What do you mean by that?
So as we approach the end times, which of course everybody thinks is tomorrow, they've been thinking that two thousand years, there's these different phases where we see God less and less. If we look at kind of our society today and you relate it back to like the nineteen fifties, you know, when when married couples slept in separate beds, and you know, there's all of this, these different levels of morality, and
you say, where has all the morality gone? What we see is that God is really giving us that free will he promised us. He's really allowing us to decide what we think we want in our lives. Because we're not choosing to follow him voluntarily. He's saying, Okay, if you think you know better, then let's see you go out and try.
And what that's supposed to do is drive us.
Back to him to say I tried it and I failed. You know, please forget about forgiveness, because that's just something we throw around. I want to be reconciled again. I don't want my own will. That's what the age of abandonon is about. It's about people who are becoming a little too high and mighty, if you will, thinking that we don't need God.
Our whole premise as humans is to find anything that is not God.
We don't like answering to anybody, much less somebody we can't see, touch and feel.
So God is like one of those parents who.
Their children are bound and determined to do something that the parent knows is bad for them.
But the parent is going to say, Okay, if that's what.
You really think you want, I'm going to let you do that and we'll see how it works out. And that's kind of the age that we're in now. And you can find in scripture that as the end time approaches, this is really easily identifiable in those passages.
Yes, and that's.
Where we are now. Well.
I often think of the Prodigal Sun's story right about the guy goes out and loves this spendthrift life and father gives him his inheritance, let him go, and you know, winds up learning the lesson that is there. And I've often heard that offered out as a you know, an example to people are not Christians, But not too many people want to talk about it from the standpoint of the fact that he's already his father, you know, when this happens, and so this is kind of he's trun
about it. It's like, well, I'm going to go off on my own and try this. And yet the message is that God is long suffering, and you're going to be long suffering until you return to you. So it's a good example about how I think, you know, the father does not disown him, and he's ready to accept him. But the guy's got to come to the end of himself and realize that that's really what he needs.
Right, right, that his father wasn't his enemy, he was really his best friend.
That's right, Which is the message that we have with God.
We like to call on God when things in our world get too big for us, but we don't really like to call on him for the things we have under control. So and I always say it, and I said it in the book several times, that you know, we're made in the image of God, and so we misuse that much the way Lucifer did, where we create and become gods of our own little worlds. We pick and choose who's there, who's not, what happens, what doesn't happen, and then anytime it gets a little bit bigger than us,
well then we turn to the big guns. Right, But we don't do that on a daily regular basis. We're not in a constant state of prayer.
As Scripture tells us.
We are a call on him when we need him, and the rest of the thing, I'll take care of it.
And we often say that, well, I don't want.
To bother God with all the little details, as if he couldn't handle them. Right, I'll save the big stuff for him until I really screw it up, and then then I'll bring him in and then I complain him when it goes wrong.
And then you're missing out on a lot of stuff because God does inherit those little small details in our life if we actually involved him in that, so yeah, he can use.
God wastes absolutely nothing. And if we understand that when we read Scripture and we understand that, when we experience a relationship with him, you know that nothing is wasted, even bad things. Are used for good.
Right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, that's one of the things Karen really taught me. You know, she'll she'll she'll call on Gun for the smallest thing. I need a parking space over here, I can't find my keys or whatever, and then you see God right away, you know, when you turn to God. One of my favorite passages is this guy who's a king and he he gets something happens to his foot, and the Bible just kind of summarizes that he went to a doctor, so he died.
He didn't ask God, so he died.
He used to he'd rather go to a doctor and get a solution there rather than going to ask God. And that's one of the things to say all the time is that we hear people say not only as you pointed out, well that's I don't want to bother God with all the small details. He's got too much in his hands. Or we'll say, well, I guess there's nothing left now to do but to pray about it.
Last resort.
Okay, this is my hail Mary that is coming in at this point, and it's like, that's that's uh.
That's the probable sun I came. I've come to the end of myself. Now I've got to turn back to God.
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Well, you know, we talked about the age of abandonment, and of course we're told that people will become in the last days, people become lovers of themselves, and that's really what we're looking at here. But there's something that's a little bit hopeful.
And some of the.
Stats that that you've got here, there's in your email you talk about the fact that we have and I just saw an article about this as well. There are a lot more young men that are investigating and looking into the Bible, you know, curious at it. Then there are women, which is kind of interesting at this point. I think always in the past we have seen when there was a time of revival, it would kind of be mentioned that God would turn the hearts of the
fathers towards their children. I always looked at that and I thought, well, I wonder if that is a sign of revival or maybe as to the extent that always in the past it was kind of assumed that the women would be thinking about the welfare of the children. Now that's not happening as much as it is men. So I don't know, how do you read that? Do you see that as a hopeful thing? The fact that
we've got a lot more men. I mean, it's good when anybody of any any sex is looking for God, but it's something that is unusual in our time.
We have not usually seen this in the past.
Yeah, And I think that what society has done is really erased.
Men as anything important.
And men have lost their identity, and they've lost their honor and their respect and their hard work, ethics and all those types of things. And we've been we've been neutralized, if you will. And I think what we see is more men are seeking truth because they're starting to pay attention, you know, as the politics and all that are ebbing and flowing, you know, pro this anti that the question is, well, what's real anymore? That's what we really need to know.
What's real? What can I hang my hat on?
And men who've lost their identity want a true identity, they don't want to create a fake one.
And I think a lot of.
That drives their desire to say, well, let's try this God thing, because I haven't tried that. So, you know, you see this resurgence, and particularly in the colleges and all that, which is very interesting because you know, they always say, if you want to indoctrinate a society, you start very young.
You know.
I remember in elementary school they were teaching us how smoking was bad, even though you know, in fifth grade I never thought about smoking.
That it was in a doctrination.
They're trying to stop it before it happens, right, And so now you see these young men who have gone through and they don't even know which bathroom to use anymore. And now all of a sudden, they're in college and they're like, hey, I need to grow up now and you know, be somebody. I need to think about raising a family and getting a career or all this. But I don't even know who I am anymore. And society has kind of eliminated the male as being something good.
It's been looked at as a bad thing for such a long time that nobody wants to be one anymore. But you know, short of surgery, you don't have a whole lot of choice, right.
You are what God made you.
So can we make something of ourselves and can it be the best that we can be?
And the answer, of course.
Is yes, it's just going to take a different way of thinking instead of jumping on the bandwagon with the world. We need to do what God does, go anti world. My ways are not your ways, My thoughts are not your thoughts, and basically.
Restore the dignity of being male.
It's not that it's superior, but it is equally important at.
Least, right.
Oh yeah, yeah, basically what the world has done, I think, And it is a kind of adversity, you know, people turning to God out of adversity. Of course, that can be a lot of different things. It can be your health, economics, it can be society in general. But in this particular case, I think there's a tremendous amount of adversity because society has decided that they're going to take away the role of man and give it to women. And so now what do I do? Right, I can't get into this
college because they won't even let me in. They're going to give preference to a woman with us or whatever, or into a job. And so it creates a real system of adversity. As you point out, people are looking for the meaning in their life. You know, where can I find meaning in this? And whatever kind of adversity
we're going through. Whether it's individually or you know, collectively or a group of people that are suffering from this adversity, it is something that is always that's the kind of thing that actually can be a real blessing in disguise.
Right, right, Well, once we start to recognize that God's structure in the Bible talks about the man being responsible for the head of his household, and society is reversing that. Why because society always is looking for the anti God way of doing things.
That's right, because that's again our human nature.
Our human nature is to stand on our own two feet, and we don't need anybody, and we certainly don't need a God. And so these are the kinds of things. Well, if God's principle is to put is to make the male the head of the household, let's undo that. Let's emasculate the male, and you know, take that out of the equation because that's anti God. And anything that's anti God is seen as good because in the end times, good is bad and bad is good.
Right to do that and see.
That, But that's right, yeah, absolutely, So who'd you say this book is for if you're going to encapsulate this.
You know, there's a lot of what I said earlier about label Christians, people who who have done the minimum requirements to be a Christian, but they aren't really.
They aren't really.
Advancing in their Christianity. So first and foremost most of it is because they don't understand who they are and who their God is, and so understanding and learning how to read scripture the way it's designed to be read
helps that kind of person. Then you have stagnant Christians, people who have reached a plateau, either because they've found a level of satisfaction in their Christianity and they don't really want more, or they've hit the ceiling because you know, what they've been taught all along is so lightweight, milk level, and they're really looking for where is the bread? Where is the meat in this relationship? Is this really all there is? I found myself in that situation in the
early days of my Christianity. I started in my teen years, so I wasn't raised in a Christian home by any means, but I was disillusioned because you know, they said, all you got to do is walk down the aisle and invite Jesus into your heart, and you know, then come to church on Sundays and it's like, wow, is that really all there is.
To this deal?
That seems a little too too easy, right, And if it's too good, it probably is when you're looking to go deeper and you're looking to understand and you want to figure yourself out, and you want to figure out this God thing and you want Christianity to mean something, then the book really speaks to.
That level as well.
But actually, you know, there's a big section in the book that talks about the Bible itself, the history of it, how it's written, how it's designed, where it comes from, and it gives you a solid understanding of the book. And that alone would cause even a non believer to say, wow, if all of this is true, there's really something substantive here.
This is really something I should try to investigate. Actually, my wife and I we have a few children who aren't Christians, effectually more that aren't than are, and encouraging them to read this book if for Noah's a reason to understand what it is they're choosing.
To not believe in.
And so this section that talks about the Bible and it's all historical fact and it's non religious, historical fact. You know, it's archives and histories and these types of things, but written in a way that anybody can understand. So it's not heavy theological. None of my books really are, because really what I want to do is talk to the average person right in a way that they can
understand and appreciate and identify. So in that sense, you know, even a non believer could read this and say, wow, I had no idea when I read this junk before in my life that it actually was talking about me. And like I said before me, that's our favorite subject, right of course.
We want to read all about ourselves.
So if we can learn how to do that and see ourselves in scripture. Really the book is for so many different audiences, but for different reasons.
Yes, yeah, you know, let's say it does cerly is a history book, but there's so many other aspects to it as well. You know, what, you get into science and you start looking at different things, whether it's astronomy or whether it's microbiology or all these other things, and you start seeing intelligent design either in the universe. We just had one of the astronauts who came back and he's an atheist, and he just felt like it was
a religious experience for him, just to see creation. And of course we're told, but you know, day after day and night after night it pours out speech, but it doesn't you know, you don't hear it in words, but you see it that is there, and you know that there is a creator that is behind all of this stuff.
And so when you look at it from that standpoint, I found over the years as I would get involved in science or different things like that, it just it kept like layers of an onion that kept going back. I remember going to SeaWorld with the kids and we're looking at the penguins swimming and they have an observation thing where you're below the water level and you can see them swimming in the water and they're actually flying. A lot about it, I thought, yeah, they're actually flying.
It's just that they're going through a thicker fluid than air, is right, because you know, normally you've got to have the you know, flight is about having a big engine that's going to pull you through the air quickly enough that it's going to increase the effective viscosity of the fluids. So these are you know, they're they're flying, but they're
flying in the water. And then I thought about that, and I thought, you know, now, why would Moses group together the things that fly and the things that swim. At the same time, he wasn't an engineer, he wasn't interested in aerodynamics, knew nothing about the science of aerodynamics or fluids or anything like that. So you constantly see
these types of things as they come back. You know, if you've got if you've read the Bible and you've looked at some of this stuff, it'll come back to you and it's like, oh, so that's why, you know, God created the things that fly and the things that or now he classifies him as a matter of fact. You know, on this day, I create the things that are moving in this way, and on that day, I create the things that are moving in that way. And
it's like, so, why would he do that? It's kind of strange classification until you look at it and then it makes sense. And so there's things like that that just keep coming back. And when I look at this and you're talking about our relationship with God and what does it say about us that it made me think to him about the Westminster Confession, which again goes back several hundred years, A lot of people use that what is the chief end of man is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever?
Right right, Well, Solomon came up with the same thing. I had all the money in the world, all the wisdom in the world. Why and women in song, all those things. If the head rock music back then, he'd have had that too. He had basically everything. And how does he sum the whole thing up? Yeah, all he says in the end is ultimately all of that was just grasping at the wind, and the only thing of any value whatsoever is just to have a relationship and
a respect for God. If we can't learn a lesson from the one person who truly did have everything everything a man ever dreams of, he had it all, And yet in the end he says it's all worthless. And that's true because where is all that wealth today? Where is all that gold and silver and all? Nobody knows? It evaporated? It went to you know, different kingdoms, different people.
Who knows.
We might even be wearing it a ring on our finger.
We don't really even know.
Because it wasn't about the stuff. The stuff was worthless. It was about the relationship with God. That is really the chief end to man. It's actually the chief beginning of man, because once we understand that and we can relate to God, we can actually really live. We live with a lot of fear in our lives. But if we understand that God's in control, what is it we're afraid of?
That's right, that's right.
Yeah, we're not really understanding that, are we.
That's right.
Try to remind people that all the time because I covered the news, and the news is just fear based. Actually, you know, you don't see too much that's good news anymore. But there is a good news, but that's pretty much limited to Christ and to God, and you know, glorifying him in a way that is enjoying him. It's praising him and glorifying him. So that really is almost redundant there in a sense, except that.
As humans, we don't want to hear the good news.
That's right.
He seemed to be drawn to the bad news.
Why is that?
You know?
That's that another one of those human behaviors. It's anti God behavior.
That's right.
Well, it's good good news, we prefer the bad news, that's right.
It's what you were talking about with you know, immediately they get delivered out of Egypt, and right away they're building an idol of golden calf or whatever. And then later on, as you point out, they want something that is tangible, that's physical, that they can focus on. That's right there. So what they do they ask for a king, right rather than having God, which you know, God is not some one that they can look at right there, So they want to replace him with a king, you know.
And so he says to Samuel, they haven't rejected you. They rejected me.
Even though they were warned.
Yeah, what a king would do if they said, I don't care, I want him anyway, that's right.
Yeah, when I was with the Libertarian Party and we were doing stuff that that was one passage that they all knew. They said, So, you know, they asked for a king, and they said, so he's going to tax you, he's going to send your young men to war, and all the other kind of stuff that say, that's what government does. And but of course it doesn't really appeal to people. You can't really convince them anymore than Samuel could convince the Israelites at that point in time.
Well, I think we prefer to sit around and complain about our government, not only Yeah, it doesn't.
Matter who our government is.
We'll find something to come plain about, that's right, And we'll just slip one side to the other, back and forth, back and forth. Good king's bad kings, right, because that's what we do as humans, that's right, relying on God.
That's right.
Yeah, we can lay it off on them and if it goes bad, it's their fault, but of course there won't be any any punishment for them either. Well, it's a wonderful talking to you about this. And again, if you are somebody who's out there looking for meaning in your life, or you're going through adversity or whatever, we would recommend that you take a look at the Bible.
And this is a tool I think that will help you to do that wisely, and kind of walk alongside of you and give you some pointers and how to understand it and how to really apply it in your life. That's always a good thing. Of course, you know, God is going to be our teacher. He has promised that Christ promised the Holy Spirit to Christians to guide them and to teach them. But he's also told us that iron sharp thans iron, and so I think this is something this book, the Book of Us, I think is
something that would really helped to sharpen you as well. Again, Tim mulgrew is the author and the book is the Book of Us. Thank you so much, Tim. I really appreciate talking to you.
It's very interesting, Yeah, very I love these kind of conversations.
Yes, Yes, it's very important, a very important conversation to have, the one between you and God. And I think that's a key takeaway that you've got in your book. Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you.
You're listening to the David Knight Show.
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Joining us now is the CEO of a company called Pebble. His name is John Shively and this company is focused, I believe on copper. At least that's what we're talking about in terms of this interview, the need for copper.
When we'll talk about.
The opposition from the Trump administration on this, which is really kind of surprising. We see Donald Trump saying we need to be completely self sufficient in the United States.
And yet, as we've seen with rare earth and with many other minerals, if we don't have the fundamental building blocks, whether we're talking about copper or aluminium or rare earth, we're not going to be able to build anything because China is going to if they've got a monopoly on this, that they're going to make it difficult for people domestically to manufacture with that. So we're going to talk about the issues of the general opposition to mining that is
faced in the United States with mister Shively. So thank you for joining us. I thank you, David layout for us a little bit. Where we stand in terms of copper. Do we have a lot of copper in the United States? How are we in terms of being able to produce and manufacture that and get it online even if we have it in the ground. Where do we stand on that?
Well? I think we have plenty of copper in this country. You know, Bubble is the largest undeveloped copper project in the world. But you know there's a large resolution in Arizona. This is large copper deposit up in northern Minnesota, and others. So we have the copper we need if we can develop. But I think that you know, the thing that people need to understand is the role that the Chinese are currently playing in mineral development and mineral and particularly mineral processing.
There's a study that was done by S and P Global recently that says that by twenty forty we'll have a ten million ton deficit worldwide of copper. And the Chinese have seen this coming for some time, so you know, they have a whole different way of doing things. You know, if they want a copper processing plant, they build it. If they need more power to run that plant, they build it. They have no processing or no environmental process,
no litigation, none of that. In this country. It takes an average of twenty nine years from when you find to when you actually can be mining. It were the second worst in the world.
Wow, that's regulatory hang up with that that you're talking about, because as you point out, and the materiity sent to me, Beijing is doing it in five years. So you know, it takes a while to actually build something and to exploit it. The rest of that time going between five years and twenty nine years. The rest of that is in terms of investigation and approval processes and that type of thing.
And don't forget litigation, which you can add anywhere from three to ten years now.
You pointed out in the op ed piece that you did that was published on Fox that Donald Trump Junior opposed this early on. He was concerned about phishing and that sport fishing. I think it was tell us a little bit about the site that's there in Alaska. This is one that we're talking about.
Yeah, actually I didn't point it out Fox News conveniently for me. So well, first of all, I want to talk about that. I think, you know, he has a different view now, maybe because of the Nations and his dad's emphasis on getting critical minerals so that we can be independent of those. But we sit in a sensitive area.
We've always understood that it's in the Bristol Bay area that's the largest socc fishery in the world, and we've always known that we needed to be especially concerned about the environment, and so we went through a permitting process back starting in twenty seventeen. We got an environmental impact statement that said we can do this project without harming the fish. And then politics got involved and the Corp of Engineers turned down our We appealed that decision and
won our appeal. That got remanded back to the corp of Engineers. But by then the Biden administration had come in. They did nothing with it while they let the EPA come up with a decision to basic veto not only the whole project but close off mining at a two hundred and twenty thousand acre area in Alaska of land that's owned by the State of Alaska and was specifically gotten by the State of Alaska because they knew there was some mineral potential in that area.
And of course you have been involved in the State of Alaska in terms of what was your position there in terms of resources.
I was Commissioner Natural Resources for about six years for.
The state, all right, and so the state wanted to do this, but the federal government is coming in and saying that they can't do that. And you know, we kind of I jumped ahead a little bit with some of this, but you know, we talked about the bigger picture here. You pointed out in your stats that right now we import about half of the copper that we use. I think it's forty five percent or something like that if this were to come online, that would drop us
to by about fifteen points. It take us down to about so we go from about a half of the copper that we use being imported to about a third. And it's a huge amount of copper that is there. And of course why is copper so important. Well, that gets in the way of all their agendas. I mean, the Trump administration is not pushing like the Biden administration did for electrical vehicles, but everything that you electrify that's
pretty much going to be copper wiring. And so if they want to have their AI data centers that they're looking down the road, they're not going to have the material to build that unless they can get it from China. And so this is kind of the it's kind of interesting when you look at it. It moves very quickly on these different agendas, and you know, if that is his agenda, he hasn't really thought it through what it's going to take to make this happen. In the same
way that we saw with rare earth. The rare earths are not rare, it's just rare for anybody to be set up to process them. And yet they didn't wait until they had processing plants before they essentially cut that off with the trade wars and the terraces.
Yeah, I mean China has a whole different system than we do. I mean they basically control the whole supply chain from getting the concentrate either from their own country or from other countries, processing that into metal, and then putting the metal into whether it's what now is a huge ev industry, refrigerators, solar panels, all of that, and when they want to do stuff, they do it. They currently do process about half the world's copper in this country.
We have plenty of copper. I mean, if you look at us, if you look at resolution in Arizona, if you look at twin Metals up in Minnesota, you know the copper is there. But there's a piece of it that requires I think a lot of thought and a lot of investment, and that is the processing. So mining is basically, in my mind, three steps. You blow up the rock, you take the rock with the ore, and
it you process into something called concentrate. So like for us, the ore would have a one percent minimalization, the concentrate would have about twenty six. And then you take the concentrate and make the metal. Well, we haven't built a new metal copper processing place in this country in probably three or four decades. Meanwhile, China's been building them left and right.
It's kind of like coal plants, you know, we don't want to use the coal anymore. I remember one point in time, we were told that after the Opay coil embargo, we were told and I saved the magazines because I thought it was ludicrous at the time. Even they said, oh, we're going to be out of oil and asked by the mid nineteen eighties. But we've got six hundred and sixty six years of coal left.
So what's the first thing they've banned coal? You know?
Well, and of course we've been at quote peak oil several times since then, and right now, I don't think we've ever reached peak oil because technology keeps getting better in that decision, right, if you look minding in the investment, I mean, you know, we've spent a billion dollars already. Resolution in Arizona has spent two billion. Neither one of us have gotten announced or out of the ground to process.
I mean, and eventually, if these big projects like Pebble resolution twin metals can't get going then people will stop investing in mining in the US and then to get back to processing a little bit. The other problem that we have, and it's happened with rare earths, is we start to build something up and then the Chinese undercut in price. So right now, for instance, for processing copper, China is paying people to take their concentrate and process it,
which is basically unheard of. But because they can then take the metal and make all this other stuff, they don't care about that. Whereas if we start processing plants are usually they're sometimes associated with the mining companies usually, but you know, you need to make a profit, and
those are billion, multi billion dollar investments. And so how the country faces that issue of getting processing, because that's the only way we become independent with metals is to be able to process it here, mine it here, and process it here.
Yeah.
Yeah, Well, they've got all these grandiose plans of artificial intelligence, which a lot of those plans I don't agree with because the government's going to be using them for surveillance and other things like that that don't concern me a great deal. But they've got these big plans for AI. And yet how you're going to manufacture that. How you're going to build the data centers if we can't manufacture even the copper wire and things like that. They don't
really think these things through. Everybody thinks, well, it's going to be this nice, clean software environment, but you know, there is a physical world out there that has to make that virtual world happen, and people don't really think that through. When you talk about the processing versus the mining, are you doing the processing as well as the mining or is that you know, how does that operate with your company?
Well, you know, we'll do the first two steps for sure. So we'll blow up the rock and we'll take that rock and make it into a concentrate. We are looking at a way to process it in Alaska, and we've got consultants investigating that right now. We think there's a different technology. Usually the processing has been what's called smelting, which is high heat and has you know, air quality issues.
There's a processing called hydro metallurgy that uses liquids and pressure basically to get the metal to come out of the concentrate. So we would like to do that because we think it's important.
Well, let's talk a little bit about what their concerns are because you know, when I've looked at the coal industry for example, you know, burning coal, we can make coal power plants that are very clean. I can spend extra money to have scrubbers and things like that. But they got to the point where they labeled it as something that's dirty. We don't even want to think about that. We're not even going to try to clean that process
up in any way, shape or form. We've seen it with cars that you can take car exhaust and you can spend extra money to clean it up and you can actually get those missions down to essentially zero. But again they drive the nail in the ground and say no, there will be no ternal combustion engines. Talk to us a little bit about the process with us, and what would you say to people to assuage their concerns about the environment and how it's going to impact the fishing stuff.
What did your studies show and how do you operate with that?
Well, the Environmental Impacts statement basically showed that we can do the process, do the mining, make the concentrate, store the tailings, which is the big issue. It's the sort of waste that sorts over from the processing. Our processing concentrate that we can do that. We have made some major design changes from what have been traditional impoundment storage facilities, water processing and things like that because the environments so sensitive there. And you know, I was approached in two
thousand and eight to take the job as CEO. I've been in and out once in out and back in
as CEO. But when I started, I told the two companies that were the owner companies that I didn't know at the time whether we could do this project environmentally since I had been involved in another major mining project up north of the Arctic Circle that was on Native of Alaska indigenous lands, where we got mining company to come in and develop one of the largest saint lead mines in the country, which changed the whole economics of that region because there were not economic opportunities.
And that's part of it. You know, we talked about jobs.
Everybody says, well, you know, we don't want the service jobs, we want the manufacturing jobs. Well, the manufacturing jobs come with some some.
Issues that you have to address.
You know.
One of the things that China does, as you said, they just they just do whatever the government wishes. They don't really care about any pollution issues we do. That is something that we do want to do something about, and yet there are solutions that can be had to that is like a you know, we either have manufacturing and pollution everywhere, or we don't have any manufacturing. That's not the trade off. The trade off, as I've seen over and over again. I don't know about your particular industry.
I haven't looked at it, but the trade off that I've seen over and over again is a trade off in terms of maybe it costs us a little bit more because we've got to go through some extra steps, but it can be done in a clean way.
Yeah. I mean, you know, if you're a true environmentalist, you'd want to develop in the US because we have some of the highest standards. I mean, there are other countries that are about the same, but we're right at the top of the environmental standards. But you know a couple of things. One these things are money raising opportunities for the environmentalists. You know, they can only raise money
by being negative. They cannot raise money by saying, oh, yeah, I think this mine is environmentally okay, we're all they have to be opposed to it. And the other thing is they're not held to any standards of truth. Uh, you know, if they're a pharmaceutical company, they'd be sued all the time because they do not tell the truth. And it's a problem. You know, if I were in the Chinese government, I'd be sitting over there sort of chuckling about, Gee, this is the way US is doing it.
They'll never catch up with us.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Well, you know, it's kind of the sort of thing that we saw with the Southern Property Law Center. You know, they place fast and loose with the truth, and they only raise money if they come up with the problems. So you know, for them, they're gonna they're gonna fund the Ku Klux Klan. So they got a problems that's out there. But I get your point. That's exactly what is going on with it. But so tell us a little bit about what it is that you do to mitigate.
You said that things have changed somewhat from the way it used to be done. I know when they were talking about the one that is the resolution one that's down in Arizona, people talking about how it was going to create a gigantic crater, and they were concerned about that because it was in the middle of a that was middle of a national park or something, as well as an area that the apaches had a large attachment to as well. So how has how has that changed?
Well, I mean that isn't she With mining, I mean generally there is a you know, you're going to end up with a large crater. In the case of resolution, they're an underground mine, but you get subsidence when you take or out from underneath it. For we will start with an open pit mine. Well probably ultimately, I mean we've got seventy two hundred years of resource that we know about now, we would end up with also a large crater which would ultimately become a lake.
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. That's typically what happens to these It's kind of like when you got a landfill. I know in Virginia Beach where we have some relatives, they have this mount trash more or something came up. You know, you got to do something
with the trash. I mean, unfortunately, it's a necessity. So you know, once they get the landfill really large, they basically they put grass over it and all the rest of that, and they've now got a large park out there with a mountain in an area where they typically wouldn't have a mountain before. So you're talking about having it be a large lake that would be their recreational lake eventually.
Yeah.
So, and you know, our tailings and foundment facility is this is a technical thing that it is probably you don't need to spend the time on, but it is a different kind of design that both protects it from failing and also protects it from liquefying, which is one of the reasons that tailings impoundment facilities fail. And I know, as I said, we have a very sophisticated water treatment plan, but you know, I do see that, you know, some things are changing in the country for the better in
this regard. I don't want to be all negative. First of all, there is now is a recognition that we are going to need these metals, and you know, whether it's for the AI. One of the things people forget about is defense. I mean, you know, jets, submarines, battleships, air carriers, I mean tons and tons of copper and also ernium, which we have, so people forget about that.
But there was a sort of a positive thing last week in Washington when the Senate confirmed a resolution coming out of the House under something called the Congressional Review Act that revoked a two hundred and twenty thousand acre land set aside under the Biden administration that would have prevented the Twin Metals mine in northern Minnesota. And so that was voted. It's very close, fifty to forty nine. But in that kind of vote it only requires a majority.
You don't have to get to sixty and so that'll go to the President's desk. And so I think people are beginning to understand this. But the opposition is huge and well organized, and there are people who think that the opposition has connections to China. I have never seen that, although we did have one instance with us where there was it looked like interference from the Chinese in cooperation
with the with the environmental movement. So, as I said earlier, I do know they're very happy with how long it takes us to.
Get a major Yeah, well that's the key. And you know this is a long term project. That's another thing that works against you. I think Americans don't think long term. We want immediate gratification. If this is something that is addressing a problem, that's going to be years down the road or decades down the road. We can't really be bothered with that. Yeah, let me think about it.
I mean that's been you know. I think a problem also for investment in mining because it is difficult to get going. As I said earlier, twenty nine years average.
And.
You know, everything gets litigated that generally adds you know, three to ten years, as I said, and then constructing a mine of the size of pebble is a three to four year and you know, six to eight billion dollar investment, you know, so you go out twenty nine years, you spend as we have in resolution, have billions of dollars before you even start, and then you got to construct.
And yeah, it's not something that happens overnight. And people that are used to getting electricity by hitting a switch, I think that's where it comes from. Do not understand what it takes.
Yeah, we used to.
I used to work with a group that was based on energy and was essentially opposing a lot of the climate change stuff. And they would go around and talk to people that have a public meeting or something and say, you know what, what's your favorite source of energy and said it never failed. Somebody said electricity. That's not the source, that's the product that's produced. How do we generate though?
I don't know, you know, just all I know is I go to the grocery store and I buy this meat and plastic packages, you know, and that's what I eat, that type of thing. So there is no there's a real disconnect in terms of production of anything, whether you're talking about food or energy or material in this country. And there's nothing that is absolutely perfect, I think, you know. So that's really the issue, the devil's and the details,
and we have a lot of absolutism. I think that comes from these different groups that we've talked about, and they don't want to consider any solutions. You know, they run into an obstacle or they see something that is on a downside, and they just want to shut it down at their reflexes, to shut it down completely and preemptively. And so I think that we need to take a closer look at some of these things and see if.
There's a problem.
We don't want to take the approach of the Chinese take where we just we don't care about anything, you know, that's one of the things that they have done. They don't care about pollution. They don't clean up their coal plants. They build a ton of them and they just run them cheap and dirty. We don't necessarily want to do that,
but there's a lot of money. You know, the wealth of this country is really going to come from manufacturing, if you will, and so there is money in that they can pay to clean some of these things up in a way that we can still proceed forward with it.
Well, and really it's cheaper to get it right in the beginning, I mean, particularly in this country. So yeah, you can get it wrong, but it's going to cost you a lot of money to get it wrong. That's right, which is a good thing. I mean, that's the way it should be.
That's right.
So as it stands right now, you are at what point in your stage? I mean you've had some preliminary approvals I think at some stage, but then they took it back and it's very political in terms of the pendulum swinging back and forth. That's not true only of your project. That is true of pretty much everything in terms of manufacturing. So where does it stand right now?
Well, we're in litigation. So we sued the EPA under the Biden administration when basically vetoed US. We thought that Trump administration might want to withdraw the veto. They decided not to, so they have supported the EPA veto, which I'm not totally surprised about. It has some ramifications for them in the future because the way EPA used that VETO can be used against a lot of mining and
energy projects that the Trump administration would lie. So defending the use of the VETO in a way that I think way exceeds EPA's authority I think was a mistake for them, But for us, I think it's a good thing. I think we will win that litigation. We have the State of Alaska on our side because we are on state land, so you know, it's EPA taking away you know, close to trillion dollar asset from the state. We have
two indigenous organizations also suing on our behalf. So anyway, so the final briefs have been filed in that lawsuit and I think we'll win, which will be a good thing for us. There are still oral arguments which will be held on June twenty fifth. After that the judge will have everything she needs to make the decision. And then if we win, you know, our hope will be that the Trump administration decides not to appeal, and then we can get back in front of the corp of
Engineers to finalize our permit process. We still have state permitting to do also after that.
So if everything goes goes well for you, this pebble area here, as you point out, could cover fifteen percent of American demand just by itself of this one site. What kind of a time frame would you estimate if everything went really well, and what kind of a time frame if it was slow, that this could happen well where you still get through, but you got a lot of other new things.
So I mean, if things went well, you know, and we got our permits from the state and federal government, would probably take us a year and a half or so. Then there will be litigation if the courts, you know, are expeditious, and it's getting a little harder for the environmentalists to sue because of some of the court Supreme Court decisions that have been made about the permitting process. And then you know Congress is looking at permit reform, which is very important for them to get that done.
So you know, a year and a half two years or so for permitting a year or so to anywhere from a year to three or four years to get out of the courts, and then three or four years to build. So that's aggressive. So that's close to a decade on the long side of it. I mean, the permitting process could be drawn out, particularly, you know, if it doesn't get done in the Trump administration and the Newsome administration or the AOCS, you name it, they come in and you know they.
Would shut down all together. That's right.
Yeah, you go into the snail Darterer administration. Yeah, that's the case. And that's the thing. You know, we look at the proverbial snail darter that has we've seen the pendulum swing to an absurd extreme in one direction. We don't have to really want to go the absurd extreme in the other direction of China. But there is a reasonable area in the middle, I think where we can live and we can grow. And that's really what I think we're trying to achieve here. So it'd be interesting
to see what happens. I had the guy on from Rare Earth, USA, and he was saying, even as desperate as the American government is to make this happen, and they're willing to you know, kick in and do what they can to help the processing of rare earth minerals. They say it's still going to take us more than five years once we get started on this thing. And so that's the key thing. We just don't plan and prepare any more in this country like we used to.
Yeah, well, unfortunately it's only been well the mining industry for you know, probably a decade and a half or more. I've been telling people this is coming, and people were mostly not listening. Now at least people are listening. And I always like to say that you can't solve a problem that you've not identified. We've identified the problem. Now solving it is not going to be easy, and it is not going to be quick, and it is not going to be cheap.
Yeah, that's the key thing. Well, very interesting to talk to you about this again. John Shively as former Alaska Commissioner of Natural Resources. He is the CEO of Pebble and they have their setting on a massive supply of copper. The question is will we be allowed to get that out of the ground and process it is in a way that they say they've got a way to do it very cleanly and so, and they got some studies
to back that up. You spent I think you said here, one hundred and fifty million dollars on environmental studies, and.
Just environmental studies, we spent over a billion dollars total, like on engineering.
Wow, it's pretty amazing. So well, we'll see what happens with it and appreciate you trying to get in the fight and actually produce something that is getting increasingly rare. That is the rarest of the rare earth or rare minerals. Is anybody trying to produce anything. Most of the time, it's just people saying stop and I just want to keep my lifestyle. But I don't want to have to think about how I got that lifestyle. And I think
that is the key issue. We need to understand the trade offs and understand that there are going to be problems with anything that we do. That's real, but those problems can be addressed and can be solved. Thank you so much for joining us, sir, appreciate it.
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me on.
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