Flashback Interview: Autonomous Killer Robots & The Death Of Accountability

Now we're joined right now with doctor Noel Sharky. We were concerned that we might not be able to get him. He is traveling the globe trying to wake people up to the dangers and the abuses of robotics technology. He's actually a professor of artificial intelligence and robotics, and he has now after he had kind of an epiphany.

We're going to let him tell you about it. I won't try to describe it.

His core research interest is now in the ethical applications of robotics and artificial intelligence.

Doctor Sharky, can you hear me?

I can hear you? Very cleared you David?

Great? Great?

So you found a wi fi in that monastery.

Yes, that's great, that's great.

Tell us a little bit about your epiphany when you went from you were working in robotics. You are very much interested in the technology of it, but like so many of us who work in engineering or technology, you didn't realize exactly some of the dark ways that was being used.

No, I didn't. I had my head in the bio thing, just almost my research. And I was at a press conference in London about a government report on talking about robots, worrying about housing benefits for robots of the future. It was kind of a nutty report and it was the first report our government had put out about robotics. And at the press conference some journalists said to me, well, can you tell.

Us a little bit about military robots, And.

Of course I knew nothing about it, apart from a little bit about bomb disposal because I'm from Northern Ireland and we know.

About bomb disposal.

So I thought I'd go off for the evening and just have a quick look at the internet, you know, an hour or so sort I answer questions. Seven months later, I finished that little look at the internet, having read, you know, through all the US plans from two thousand and one right up to the present at the time, which was five years six years of plans for all the US forces, the road maps, and they were all talking about the application of atonnels robots for killing people.

I find it very alarming because I look at every week we see some kind of new robotic technology. They're spinning it in the media as saying that these are the Pentagon's rescue robots. I don't think that darp is really funding rescue operations. I don't think the Pentagon's really funding that. If anybody thinks that after looking at the way they're using drones to assassinate people all over the world, they need to have their head examined. That's some of

Got for the entire budget of North Korea.

We're supposed to be concerned about North Korea, yet North Korea's entire economy is about the same size as the DARPER research budget, and DARPER is constantly this seems to be their primary focus.

Well, darker aren't accountable, so their thing, and that's a good research agenda. Their agenda is you just keep funding everything that's.

Emn slightly crazy.

And as long as one of them comes up and that is, you know, comes up trumps, then you're okay. But I was laughing there because one of the reports I read from.

DARPA about these humanoid robots that are going.

To they're going to carry wrenches, and they talk about them going ahead of the forces. Well, why would you have a pile of humanoid robots going ahead of the forces with wrenches unto people's water pipes?

Fakes the broken tanks.

Yeah, here's the headline, but three hundred and thirty pound robot may one day save your life. That's talking about the Atlas robot. And this troubling thing is is that when the Atlas robot came out, I looked at it. I thought it was very frightening, the way that this thing is able to move around, and the fact that it has these two long arms that essentially look like cylinders, where I could imagine them being guns of some sort.

Oh god, yeah, that's I think you're right that I can and see the cylinders are going to become machine guns. I would say, you know, it's no doubt about that at all. Maybe not for a while, but that's the that would be the general plan. I would think, yes, would Why would dark would be spending money and rescuing people when when the the business rescue?

Ever? Yeah, and then we have these articles that are coming out and this is about a year ago. This is from Wired's Dangeroum. It says the Pentagon doesn't trust its own robots. They say that there's a cloud of distrust and misunderstanding hovering over robot. So the Pengon already has so they're looking at this and they're evaluating this, and they don't really like it. So we've got to conduct a media campaign to change the public's mind, to

Can you address that?

Yes, I mean you're right about the profit I mean just in terms of the drone.

So what we know about already.

I mean, Israel mid four point eight billion in the last five years profit on those, and this competition is so stiff. So the idea is that you've got all the drones, how do you compete in that big market. And the way you compete is let's add autonomy to it. Let's make them work on their own, and then we can make a lot more money. And what we're trying

It's going to be very difficult. Yes, we're making very good head the un Actually.

Well that's good. I'm glad that you're going around and you're addressing the press, you're dressing government, you're pointing out to them where this could head.

I see this.

You know, you know, when we're talking about nuclear war, if some government presses the button and launches a bunch of nuclear weapons on someone, there's going to be literally hell to pay for that. There's going to be accountability for that. But if they take a bunch of killer robots, as we've already seen with drones. We've seen how they can go in with drones. They can destroy a village and there's no accountability. Nobody is held responsible for that.

I think to really do.

And the thing is that what will the United States and the high technicians like the UK. They have a problem understanding that this stuff will proliferate and everyone will.

Have it and then what are we doing yes to be And that's my.

Biggest worry is this idea that we'll keep ahead of the technology will be the ones who'll use it without thinking at all that everybody else is going to have it, and they will all interact together, and then it's going to be a real mess.

We've already seen countries like Iran setting up their own drones. They're not that technologically advanced. It didn't take them that long to get drones. It's not going to take them long to get robots. This is something and what we're concerned about here. I have to say, doctor Sharky, we

Do you really think the United States police will start I mean, they certainly talk about arming robots with tasers.

Mm hmmm, that would start for it. But tasers are kind of deadly.

I mean, one hundred and fifty people died in the US within a period of two years taser. So if you start arming robots with tasers, then I think it's only a short step.

To arming them with weapons really.

Yes lethal, and they're very horrible non quote unquote non lethal weapons, very horrible ones.

It's not just tasers.

They have all kinds of things that they can beam at you to make you sake, to blind you, that sort of thing we just had you talked about how they kill people. We've got a teenager right here just south of Austin that was tasered by a cop and a school who was standing there standing around a fight and didn't get out of the way in time. The cop tasered him, fell down and cracked his head. He's now in a coma. They believe he may die. That

That can be very very oppressive.

Yes, but you don't have to worry too much because it went to stop it.

Good. Good. So tell us about your campaign.

Tell us you're going around and you're talking to different governments. I guess you're having public speeches where you're trying to inform the public.

How is your press coverage.

Well, press coverage has been very good.

But we had a breakthrough recently at the United Nations.

There's a committee of.

The United Nations called the CCW, and that's the place where poisonous gas has got banned, biological weapons, it's got banned chemical weapons, so that's the place for prohibiting new weapons.

And we spoke.

To the French have just taken up the presidency, and we spoke to the French ambassador. Then we spoke to the US delegation and they've agreed with this that they would put this forward as a mandate for discussion in the UN. And last Friday, Friday, two weeks ago, they had a one hundred and seventeen nations from the CCW met and one of those nations could be to it.

Russia over there, China were there.

There was a massive, massive, discussion and they accepted the mandate. So next year the CCW committee are setting up an expert workshop to take this on board and discuss it.

Well, that's that's great.

And your campaign is stop Killer Robots dot org. They can learn about that on the internet wwws Stop Killer Robots do. It's a campaign to stop killer robots. Now you've taken this to the UN, You've taken it to other countries. I'm a little bit more skeptical of the

Where we really need to go.

As long as there's an engineer or a scientist who will develop this kind of stuff for pay, who doesn't look at the ethics of their work, you're going to find some kind of a politician or a dictator somewhere who will do it, who will use those people, who will pay them large amounts of money, and who will break any treaty that comes up, won't you.

Well, the problem is it's mainly the US because they're more cautious in Europe. In the US, it's very difficult to not get funded by the military. Yes, most of the robotic slabs are run by the military or funded by the military, and the people aren't necessarily making weapons and things. But when you're funded by the military, it stops you speaking up.

Yes, yes, it stops you sitting.

Up against it. I mean we had there was a there's hope, I mean there was there was.

There's a professional magazine in the US called The Engineer, and they ran a poll of the readers asking how many people would go for a complete ban or how many people would just go for trying to make the weapons more perfect over time. Only three percent of the readership said they would make the weapons go more perfect over time, and sixty seventy three percent said there should be a total ban.

So we're consciousness of it.

That's very hopeful because so many times we'll talk to directly, Alex, We'll talk to soldiers and policemen over the radio and say, understand that the kind of society that you allowed happen. If you allow and are part of this kind of abuse that we see happening in the streets, that's going to be the society that you live. That could be your family that is brought under that. And historically we've seen that always does happen.

It doesn't.

It can't be contained and only limited to people who don't work for the government. But we need to have that kind of awareness with engineers. And as you pointed out, it's very difficult in America to get a job if you're an engineer that doesn't involve the military industrial complex. I know when I got out it took me a while to find a job where I wasn't working for the military.

That was my degree initially.

So I understand that, and it's good that people will privately say that, And I think I really applaud you for what you're doing because getting the information out there. People don't even believe that this could happen. In so many cases, they don't believe that the technology is there.

Well, we've had forty four nations at the UN and I speak.

Up with concern.

So people better believe in now it's not science fiction anymore when you have major countries that the US, Germany, Pakistan even you know, all speaking up against killer robots or about them. So it's definitely on course to happen. There's no question of that unless we stop it. But you have to be very worried in the US as well about your privacy. I mean, you've got the NSA. They're really doing a lot of nasty things surveying people.

Military stuff.

You hit the nail on the head.

What we're building in the United States right now is a perfect infrastructure for tyranny. And whether our current leadership uses it or it's the next door second administration down, that's what we're concerned.

About, Doctor Sharky.

What I would like for you to talk about in this segment is the state of the art in robotics. People don't understand how imminent this problem is, how rapidly it's coming upon us.

Could you address that.

Yes, certainly.

Well, we've got lots of armed robots the on the grind and in the air as you know, that are remote controlled. But what's happening now is a very rapid development of platforms that will.

Carry the weapons.

The more we talk in the campaign about banning these weapons systems, the more we're driving them underground.

It seems there's less talk about it now.

But for instance, in the United States, you've got three device as I'd like.

To mention to you.

One is called the X forty seven B and that can land on there. It's a fighter jet, a combat unmanned combat aircraft fast subsominic just beneath the speed of sound.

It can land on an.

Aircraft carrier, it can take off from an air car carrier, and it's going to be used in the Pacific. It's got ten times the range of one of your F thirty five fighter jets, so that's really productive for them. And it's just been tested two weeks ago in very windy conditions and that's working very well. That will be weaponized and used, so it's like a super drone, but you don't need people involved at all and controlling it.

Again.

Of course, the Crush there's a seven and a half ton truck and you can see it. If anybody wants to go on YouTube and just to crusher CMU, they will find it and they'll see it crushing cadillacs and it's got a big gun up there top of it. Now, the other device that you're making in the United States is on the HTV two program again DARPA, and they've got an aircraft called a Fault and the idea is to be able to get an unmanned combat aircraft anywhere

In the UK we have.

The Tyrannus, which is actually supersonic, so that's even faster. That's an intracontinental unmanned combat aircraft. Fully autonomous means that there's no human controlling it, and that's been tested in Australia just in the last couple of months, so these are progressing very quickly.

The Chinese have the Invisible Swords as the.

Engine, and that's being designed and built for air to air combat, again no human controlling it.

The Russians have the SCAT. The Israelis are using.

One called the Guardian, and at the beginning when they've built developed at the top talk a lot about it being fully autonomous to do roots and to fire on people at the borders between Palestine and Israel.

But now I spoke to it and it was really.

Colleague the other day who was very excited because I have had an early picture off it with guns on it, and now that they can't find any pictures off them with guns, so I'm afraid we're driving these people underground a bit, but they're still doing it well.

You know, we can understand very quickly the implications of something like the Crusher that's going to crush vehicles domestically, but even when it comes to these supersonic jet transports that are taking off from aircraft carriers, that are unmanned aerial vehicles that are remotely controlled, that has a lot of danger in the sense that that's going to make our already aggressive government starting wars everywhere for very little

Thank you for having me on spreading the world for us. Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

That's stop Killer Robots dot org.

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