The Dave Pasch Podcast - Vance Joseph

a rookie? What about Byron Murphy and him bursting onto the scene here in twenty twenty one, we'll discuss the growth of Isaiah Simmons and where Zaban Collins is at and his development. Also, Chandler Jones, the new Cardinals all time sack leader, where does he rank among the players that Vance Joseph has been around? And will Vance be a head coach again in twenty twenty two? All that and more coming up. We are brought to you by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona

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as highlights from previous guests. Now here's today's guest, Cardinals defensive coordinator Vance Joseph So Vance. Before we get too deep into the details, I definitely want to do that give me an overall sense of how you would assess how your defense is playing this year. Well, thus four, I think we've been solid. You know. Obviously the numbers that were concern about its points allowed, I think right now with the defense on the field, it's about fifteen five.

You know, That's that's pretty good. You know, in its day and age with the NFL football, you know, everyone's giving up points, everyone's going points. So our our entire offseason and our entire camp and our entire goals is to keep the points, you know, low, and that's that's that's winning football, you know, and right now that's happening it's not perfect, and every every week with growing we got a bunch of young guys playing. So um, it's always a work in progress when it comes to that,

but it's forced over our product. It's it's decent right now. I'm curious how how you would assess what the strength of your defenses. To me, watching it kind of from a bird's eye view in the booth, it seems like your secondary is certainly a big part of that. The thing about that is like I didn't see Marco Wilson coming Byron Murphy even making the steps that he did. Did you see those things coming? And if so, when did you see it coming? I saw Murphy coming um

this spring. He was different. His body was from his mindset was different. So I saw that progress. Obviously, he played a lot of football as a young guy, and he had some hard downs, you know, but he learned from it. And to have a young corner that plays inside and outside, that's that's hard to find. And right now he's mastering that, you know, and that that obviously makes his value, you know, huge and makes our defense better.

With Marco Wilson, I wasn't sure, you know. We watched the tape obviously in college, and when you research his background, you shouldn't be surprised. I mean he was he was a big time player in high school. He was teammates with Pats Hurtanum, the kid from Cleveland Swards. So I mean he's he's been around good players his entire life, and I mean he's he's he's been a good player. He was a freshman start at Florida, you know, for

three years, so that that takes talent. You know, walk in that conference and the players a freshman versus all those Alabama first round picks. So when he's playing against these NFL guys, he's never overwhelmed because he's played against him already, you know, and when you track his background,

you shouldn't be surprised. But drafting him in the fourth round, obviously having a day once stared at corner, that's that that's impressive by Steve and his staff to find a guy who can play that early, you know, with the football IQ and the courage and the confidence to play at a high level and overcome bad place. You know, he's done all those things. So it's been fun to watch him grow. What about your your young linebackers it's

been fun to see the growth of Isaiah Simmons. Is that something that you know last year with no preseason games, how much of a killer was that for him? And when do you feel like he finally got comfortable with what he was seeing? That was awful for Isaiah. I mean he had no offseason and no training camp, you know, so the first time he even met with us in personal was in training camp, you know. And the having no games that was that was hard for him because

in college he wasn't a screw down linebacker. I mean he was he was more of a hybrid safety outside backer type, you know. So when he came to us, he was he was playing more closer to the box and playing more linebacker stuff and that takes time, you know, and I think a about week eight or nine, you can see the growth with Isaiah. You know, he got comfortable, started making plays and kept the package really small for him. And now, man, I mean, he's getting better and better

each week. He is still a young player, you know. I mean he's he's he's in his second year, but again, missing that time an off season and training camp. In those games, he's still a young player. So hopefully he can keep growing. Man with his physical tools and his football like you, he can be something different that the league has never seen, you know, and he's he wants to be that. He's working hard every single day and he can do a lot of things for your defenses.

For its covering tight ends, uh, sitting at edges, outside backer, you know, closing the middle as a middle safety, but blitzing, you know, playing in space. I mean, so his his skills. Second, it's it's unique and he can be a different type of player you know that we've never seen in this league, you know. And as far as Zaven, you know, Xavan's in the same boat. You know, he's he's trying to

figure out Mike Backer. You know, that's that's being a quarterback up of the entire defense and that takes time, you know, and he's he's working at it and he's getting better and better each week. He's nicked up right now. That that's hurt Zaving as far as missing practice time, but as far as the person and the player, he's going to be fine. What is it about a player like Jordan Hicks when you're a defensive coordinator that there's

a comfort there for you. I assume when you've got somebody that knows what he's doing and knows what other guys are doing, you know, where does that factor in terms of like what you're looking at in terms of playing time and reps? Absolutely, I mean he is. He is my game manager, you know. I mean you have to have a player on the field that sees the game like you, you know, who can make all the audibles and make all the checks and help a lot of guys get lined up. And that comes with experience,

you know. And Jordan's been with us now for three seasons and I mean he's played he's played over probably you know, two thousand reps in his defense, you know,

so he understands the defense. And weekly in the NFL now, the game's become so complicated, these offenses, I mean every week, they change, they evolve weekly, and you have to have a guy who can who can unwind the formations, who can unwind the checks because if you if if you can adjust on game day, you know from the huddle, it's gonna be hard to play great defense, you know,

But havn't having Hicksie who understands the concepts. He can he can help us adjust you know, play play by play, and that's so important, you know, doing his NFL right now, you're talking about how offenses adjust and how complex they are. I thought it was really interesting. I don't know if you heard what Kyle Shanahan said after the game. He said he was shocked at what happened because he thought they had such a great week of practice and obviously

you guys messed with their heads. I mean, they couldn't do much offensively. They had two really big plays, and both big plays they fumble the ball. Sure, so what did you guys do to them to kind of get them off schedule? I think every every week, you know, we have a plan to take away what the offense does best. You know, and obviously Shanahan and the Niners

are run first offense. You know, we thought, if we can just kill a run game and forced him to throw the ball, you know, more often than he wanted to, it can it can. It can lead to takeaways and

sacks and those things. And I warned the staff, I said, listen, guys, you know we're going to be in this heavy package early and he's gonna throw the football and he may make some plays, you know, but let's stay with it, you know, Let's let's make them do what they're not good at doing, and that's throwing them ball thirty forty plus times, you know, And and it worked out for us,

and some of sometimes it didn't look pretty. They made some plays in the past game, but we knew if we stuck to it that we can make some plays and and uh, you know, take the ball away and sack the quarterback a bunch of times. And that's what happened. But I think every every game we have a plan to obviously take away with the offense does best, you know, like Green Bay they ran the ball some. But the plan that night wasn't to make Aaron Rodgers one dimensional

and pass every down. You know. So every every every game is so different, you know. And obviously with Aaron Rodgers type or Tom Brady type, it's a it's a cat and mouse game to absorb some runs, you know, and and kind of you know, win some first downs with shell and some rickson and put him in second and long. You know. But obviously, you know, Sunday it's different, different plan. It was stopped to run first at any cost and make them throw, and it worked out for us.

But you know that, and that in my opinion, it's what our defense that's unwell all year, you know, every every game with our staff and myself, you know, having having a plan to go into the game and to take away what they do best. You know. Week one, Tennessee it was run first, you know, and our our plan was set that way. We go to Cleveland, it was run first, Our plan was set that way. So we've had three games where we faced run first offenses,

and so far it's worked out. And I was Tennessee and I was Cleveland, and I was Sam Fran on Sunday. So you talked about the cat and mouse game. I think it's so interesting because so I do in college game every week for at ESPN ABC. We got Notre Dame Virginia this week, you got two veteran quarterbacks. But I still feel like in college it's coach versus coach.

How much in the NFL is it coach versus quarterback, meaning it's cat mouse between you and Aaron Rodgers, or you and Tom Brady or you in this week, Sam Darnold. Now maybe with younger quarterbacks it's more coach on coach, But how much is it like you're trying Aaron Rodgers is trying to think about what you're going to do based on your tendencies when he knows you and watching you, and you're trying to figure out kind of exactly, you know,

how their offense goes based on their quarterback. Absolutely, I think that's huge on Sundays. It's it's always to QB versus to coach, you know, because the next move and to dictate, you know, playing defense in in this league, you have to make them one dimensional either way, you know, and the best defense over times have always dictated to the offense. If you don't dictate to the offense, I mean,

you can't get them stopped, you know. So you know, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, those guys, I mean you have you have to take something away, you know, to make them one dimensional either way, running or passing of football. If you don't, you know, if you're just trying to play formations and playing plays, man, you can't survive. It's it's too many concepts. It's too many plays to practice

and to uh, you know, to defend. You know. But the the cat and mouse game from the coach to the quarterback and obviously the players performing and uh, you know, putting the plan in place, you know, pre pre snap looks, post snap looks. That's so critical. You know. With Aaron Rodgers, our our plan was to obviously give him a pre snap look and when the ball snap changed the look and it worked a couple of times. You know. Obviously we had some run game issues. We're more tackling than anything.

But the plan was solid. We just didn't tackle well enough. And obviously, uh, you know, we had some short fields there and they made some plays. But it's always that game on Sundays. And you know, uh, my first one in the league with Mike Nolan, I mean he was he was really a bright guy. He came out of Baltimore with those guys, with Ray Lewis and those guys, and he would always talk about playing a quarterback, you know, not not worrying about the big time receiver or the

big time back. It was always the plan was for the quarterback, and and and and the receivers were excess, the backs were excess, but the plan that's where started. You know, how do you make the quarterback flinch? You know, how do you bly on the quarterback with layers of coverage that was always his first call of duty and game plan meetings. And that's right, because that guy is so important to you know, win in losing games. If you don't take care of the quarterback man, you can't

win in this league from from a defensive perspective. So with that said, on game day, how much obviously you have a plan and you're talking with your other coaches, But how much are you adjusting on the fly? How much is it feel based on how you when you look at a certain situation, you know, And I don't know if it's the same for every decordinator or is it difference. Some guys go strictly by feel, and I know, like it's a different level Mike Leach. There's no playbuff

it's just all rights, not saying you're doing that. How much how much of what you do is okay? You know? And I had the plan going in it's not working. Well, I'm gonna change it right now, or maybe I'll change it for a little bit and see if this works. Well. Yeah, I mean, that's that's that's fair. I mean, you have a plan to go into the game, and obviously the first fifteen plays for the offense, that's usually their best plays. You know, if the plans working, then you have a

good plan. You know, if it's not. If it's not working, you have to adjust quickly. I mean, you can't wait to half time to make adjustments and you're down by three scores. And that's one thing our staff, man, it's done a great job with it's making adjustments, especially at halftime. I think a second half. As far as our numbers, they get better in the second half, as far as yard is in points, you know, And that's that's having a great staff. That's having a lot of players who understand,

you know, our scheme, so we can adjust. Want to fly without practicing certain things. But you have to be able to adjust, you know, especially if it's not working. You know that that Minnesota game that force us to adjust the first the first court and a half, man, I mean they were ripping us in a run game, in a plex and pass what's not being stopped And we got the halftime and and turned it right. I mean they rushed for like thirty five yards in the

second half and scored three points. You know, So this league is a it's a league of adjusting. If you don't adjust, you know, to that guy having a great plan. Man, you can't you can't obviously finish game. So it's uh, you know, some of its feel on a run, but once you figure out what's hurting you, you have to have answers in your plan to get it stopped immediately. If you don't, you can't win. Chandler Jones just became the all time sack leader in Cardinal's history. Where does

he rank? I mean, you've coached yea great players, You've seen great players. You were in the NFL as a player for a couple of years, so I mean you've been around great players for twenty five years in this league. Where does he rank? I'm not saying you have the list of number one and number five, but is he up there the among the best that you've ever coached

or ever seen at this level? Absolutely As a pass rusher, I mean, Chan's unique, you know, and uh, when you when you watch Chan play, I mean, it's it's it's a different style of pass rushing. It's a it's a it's a tall, long guy with with with jinkie and kind of funny movements. You know that works on guys. But it's a plan to it. I mean and he studies pass rushing and um, you know, it's it's not hope, it's a it's a plan and he works his moves.

He he takes the opponents you know, weekly and spends hours and hours on watching tackles sets, you know, so he has a plan of going a game with And you can't be great at something in this league if you're not working at it. You know, it's dev The physical twos obviously help you, you know, but most of the great players, many have they have a great plan going into games and and he's no different. I mean, you know, if you get him one on one with

most NFL tackles, he's gonna win his share. And that's what he's good at, you know. And as far as Russia's coach von Miller Off, coach camera Wake all those guys, and I've been around d Ware, I mean he is, he is up there with those guys because he can win one on ones consistently, and if you don't have a plan for Tamla Jones, he can he can wreck the game. And that's what most great players do. They wreck the game if you don't have comfort those guys

and he can do those things. We've seen now two clear examples of how well the operation is running for you guys, Cleveland and then last week where you're down coaches. I mean, it's never happened before. Now with COVID, there's coaches who aren't there. You obviously were the interim coach for the Cleveland game, and then you know Jeff Rogers isn't available for this game. I know that impacts everybody. So I guess my question is the dynamic must be

really good on the staff. What's it like between you and Cliff? How involved is he and what you guys are doing and how much are you talking? On game day? Right? We talk constantly, you know, I've during a week, you know, him and I talk about, you know, how to win a game together, you know, And every week it's different, you know. We all have weeks where the pressure falls on one side of the ball, you know, or even

on Jeff, you know. So we have meetings on Thursday Fridays and just just talk about how to win this game, you know, and you know, if I have to, you know, you know, play fast or to give him more possessions, you know, And that's that's obviously a big deal, you know, if our offense is going thirty points a game, you know, so if I can't get him off the field quickly,

that kills our offense, you know. So we have a plan sometime to Hey, man, if I'm not getting him stop quicker quick quickly, I'm going to get aggressive, you know. So he's going to score fast. I'm getting it back fast, you know. But those things we got to talk about, you know, when we first came here. You know, I would I would always go to coach and say, look, man, I mean this offense you're running, I mean, it's it

is fast paced, you know. So for me to you know, play to our strengths and play to your strengths of the offense, and I gotta match that, you know. So I'm gonna I'm gonna be up temple fast paced defense. Also and again you know, my goal is to obviously, you know, have three and outs, you know, or take the ball away. If they're gonna score, they're gonna score quickly, right and and get you in college the ball back quicker,

you know, quickly enough to have more possessions. You know, I don't I don't want to go on fifteen you know, fifteen twenty play drives. You know that happened against Cleveland. Against Green Bay, we had two drives where it was too long, you know, and uh, you know, not tackling and and and not win the third downs that kills our offense. You know. So just just knowing how you know, how this team's constructed and how we win, you know, uh,

affects everyone, you know. So with with thirty points being scored a game, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna call it aggressive, you know, I'm gonna take the ball away from Cliff and if it's getting too long and know, I'm going to open a well and blitz because now you know, hey, if he's going to score, let him score in six plays, not in twelve. You know, Let's get get the ball back to the Cliffs so he can score more points and we can win games together. So that's always being

talked about in the building. Have you noticed a difference at all in Cliff's personality coming out more? I bring that up because I think I think I know the answer, but I had You know, I've known Cliff for a while doing going back to when he was even at Houston doing some of the games, and then when Manzelle was at A and M and I had two Texas Tech games recently. Cliff doesn't want to talk to me because they were against Texas and Oklahoma and they smoked

in both games. But it was interesting. A lot of the folks at Texas Tech were saying, because I said, you know, Cliff's got an edge this year as personality has really come out, and the Texas Tech people are saying that's how Cliff was here that maybe it just was you know, adjusting to the NFL, not overstepping your

bounds kind of you know, feeling things out. Have you noticed a difference this year and Cliff, well, you know, he's always had a swagger and an edge to him, you know, but it's you know, it's it's good to win, and it's good to see your work, you know, come from you know, you know it'll come to the forefront

and it's working. You know that that gives you confidence, you know, And um, I think most young coaches come in this league, as as as head coaches especially, and you have to you know, you have to change who

you are. You don't have to change who you are, you know, I mean you can you can be yourself and still be a great NFL coach has been proven over the years and Rex Ryan and Mike thom and I mean they got huge personality, Sean McVeigh, you know, so you can be yourself and still do a good job and uh, you know, be excited on the sideline and and uh, you know, simply you know, and enjoy the game, you know, and not have to be this this stoic you know, straight up, button up guy on

the sideline and that's not football, you know. So I it's it's fun to watch him be himself. You know, it's fun to you know, watch his team win and you know, went through all kinds of adversity, you know, so it's uh, it's it's been three years in the works. And I would always tell Cliff, I said, man, one day, it's going to be the greatest job they've ever seen. You know. We just got to hang in there and keep coaching these guys. And it takes time in this

league to to flip it, you know. And it's it's fun to watch our young guys play so well, it's fun to watch Kyler in offense, you know, uh, you know score so many points each week. So you know what we talked about three years ago is finally happening, and uh, you know, obviously it's it's it's hard to stay here, but it's also fun to watch it happen, man,

and hopefully it gets better and better. I'm glad you brought that up, because you know, I've said many times that, you know, I think Michael Bidwill deserves credit for being patience and a lot of owners aren't patient. They were not patient with you in Denver. They didn't give you time. You've got two years, and you know, I'm curious as you look back on that experience because I think, if things keep going well, you're going to have another chance. I hope you do. You deserve it. I believe you

deserve another chance to be a head coach. So what did you learn from that experience that you think has helped you so that when the next one comes around, you'll be better prepared, but have a chance it's successful and staying there longer. I think in this league, obviously you know it's going to be four to five six jobs a year because the demand for winning is uh, obviously, you know high, you know, and the time they used

to give you to flip teams, it's gone. You know, so you know you have three years probably max, to make huge improvement to show the owner that year heading in the right direction, you know. And uh, I think the Denver experiences just taught me a couple of things about you know, um obviously as a head coach, you know, being involved with everything and trying to fix it all, you know, so you can survive and have time to

fix it. You know, if you don't make enough progress and and in your second year, especially in all three phases, you know, you won't have time to fix it, you know. And I think you know as a as a guy who's gone through that, and now now you understand that you have to figure out how to fix it, especially an offseason right and when it's when it's player picking season and having a quarterback and having those pieces that that you need to flip your team into improve. You

got to get it done right. You have to get it done. And you know, once once you have your team said and you're moving forward and you don't have those pieces, man, it's impossible in this league to improve and to move on and to try to find an identity with your team if you don't have a quarterback, you know, are offensive line. So the player picking season is so critical, you know, to you changing the culture,

because you won't change the culture without winning. You know, you can, you can be a great coach and you can preach the right things and coach the right things. Man, but if you can't win and have a winning product, it's hard to convince anyone around you, the city, the owner, the players, the building that you're the right guy if you're not winning, you know, And it's been a number of great head coaches that on that first chances it didn't work, you know. And it's a it's a players league,

it really is. And you have to have the right pieces first to to have a chance to coach and to build culture and ability winning culture. You know. And I and I think it's a young head coach. You come in and you think, boy, you know, I'm with I'm with these experienced gms and experienced scouts. But you have to have a voice in the players. You have to have a voice in what you need for your

systems to work, you know. And when you're a young head coach, it's your first time, you kind of defer some of those things because you don't want to like, you know, I mean that's the GM and that's his job, that's the scouts job. But really a false back on you, you know, so you have to have a voice and in the player of picking season to have a chance to improve enough to keep your job so you can fix it. And we all know it's ultimately about the quarterback.

That's about your best players at your best position. I work with Jeff Van Gundi on NBA games. Last year we were stuck doing games from our houses, so we had like a backdrop behind us of books and things on our shelves, and Jeff has this huge picture of Patrick Ewing, right, So why he would always say Tricking built my house, Like I have this house because of Patrick Hewing, not because how good a coach I was,

but because of Patrick Ewings, Right. So, as you know, down the road get opportunities, do you feel like you're in a position where you can be picky because you don't want to just take a job if there's not a quarterback in place, or like you said, if player picking season has not gone well for that organization. Right, absolutely, you know, I'm to the point in my life where I'm I'm I'm pretty set, you know, as as far as you know, my job here. I love living here,

My family love living here. I have a thunders a freshman at Brophy, you know, and you know, you know, I would like him to finish high school at one school. My daughter Natalie went to three high schools, you know. But it took that to obviously get me the Denver job and moving and having success and moving on and moving on, and obviously, you know, for her, that wasn't a great experience in high school. But she's she's fine

for it. She's at USC as a junior in a journalism and she's a steady kid, and she's she's bright and smart and she can adjust. But um, I have great job here, you know. So I'm not going to jump the first opportunity if it happens to take a you know, a job that I can't see myself fixing it quick enough to shoot it. You know. My goal wasn't to be a head coach. It was to be a coach for a long time, you know. And sometimes again, young guys, I mean, you get the job and once

you get it and it gets hard. Man, Well you know I've been a head coach. I'm done. That's not my goal. You know, my goal is to be a head coach for a long time, you know, So the next job I take, if I have a chance to take one, it's got to be the right job. And you know, I think that's that's that's the way I should be thinking, you know, being my second chance, because you know, if you get two chances, man, that's it. You know, you won't get three probably, So my next

one's got to be the right one. And I was reading something about Pete Carroll about three weeks ago and he mentioned Russell. He goes, you know, you know, Russell Russell has kept me in his job for a long time. You know. And when you have a guy like a Russell or Kyler, man, I mean you can really have a vision and to build around those guys. That piece,

that piece is so important to football teams, right. If you don't have that piece, it's it's tough to have a vision for a football team without that one piece because you're always searching for that piece and you're always gambling and sacrificing and using resources that you shouldn't be using to trying to find that piece. And if you don't find it, man, it doesn't happen. I mean, you go back on every every team that's won a big game, it's been very few who know who didn't have a

franchise quarterback. It's been done before. It's been done before, right, the Ravens did it with the great defense. I think Tampa did it with Brad Johnson who was a good, good quarterback. But it's it's rare, especially in this NFL is so different with the rules and the points being scored, that that spot has to be it has to be

filled and that's the only way in my opinion. And you can have a vision for a team if if, if that quarterback spot it is the right guy, and you can simply build around it and have time and resource to fix it around that guy. If not, it's a it's an uphill battle. Last couple because I know you get a run. I'm curious about when you got the coaching bug, because you were a player and you played in the NFL for a couple of years. When did it start? And then who were some of your

influences along the way. That's an awesome question, man, I was you know, I only played about two and a half two and a half years on paper, and Gary Burnett was my quarterback coaching college. And he was at Northwestern doing a great job, and he took the Colorado job, and he was back in town and Boulder, and I was living in denver Nebroncos just released me, and I was just doing some sports insurance work out in New York,

just trying to find my second career, you know. And I didn't want to coach because you know when when when players are done playing and it's not you know, on your terms, you kind of like, you know, this coaching, this football, I'm done for a while and need a

break from football. But he called me up. He said, hey, you know when I coached you, you know, you had a coaching bug till you And I said really, he goes, yeah, he said, just come down and spend a day with us on a Saturday, you know, doing spring ball and

see if you're like it or not. So I went down and hung with coach for a day, and and uh, you know it, that feeling came back again, you know, just just just a young guys running around and the game of football and watching guys practice and learning and watching guys teach. Man that buck came back. And I went into that spring as a GA you know, with coach at Colorado and I gad for a year and a half and got a full time job with Waomi for a spring and went back to Colorado as a

secondary coach for like three seasons. So that's where I started. And it was all coach Barnett just getting me back into football because he saw theming me as a player that I would be a great coach and it worked out and from there I spent a you know, most of my NFL career with Sam Fran, with Mike Nolan, who was a hell of a hell of a head coach, man, hell of head coach. With Mike Singletary also, you know, who's obviously a great leader and a great player in

this league for a long time. So between Gary Barnett and Mike Nolan, Mike Singletary, Billy Davis was my coordinator and uh in San Fran, great Manusky. Leaving those guys and going with Wade Phillips, that was that was obvias, A great move for me and a great experience being around Wade for four years. I mean he is he is a mastermind that's never had a bad day in life. You know, it doesn't matter if we're down by fifty or by fifty, I mean, he is still the same guy.

And that's that's uh, that's one guy that I kind of, you know, kind of you know, take my coaching approach from that, you know, just just fix it, you know, I mean he would he would always say, you know, it's it's plenty of problem pointers. You know, let's be problem solvers. And he was right about that. That's coaching, right. I mean, anyone can see the issue, but let's let's solve the problem. And he was so good with players. Players love playing for him because he kept their lives simple.

He was fair, he was honest, he kept their life simple, and you know, on a on a daily basis, this guy never had a bad day. And that was you know, you know, players and coaches love working with Wade because he was exactly the same every single day. And I leaving Wade, I went with Marvin Lewis, you know, who was incenseive for his fourteen season when I joined him.

So just learn about longevity and how to build a program and and and to kind of hang in there when when bad times are happening, and to get to that thirteen fourteen season that was That was obviously the great experience being with Marvin and his staff and Sinci and from there going with Adam Gays in Miami as a young head coach and watching him go through the up and downs, and it's it's all. It's all one book, you know, and it obviously helps you NAVI get this league,

which is a which is an awesome league. It's an awesome job, but it does have some some hard parts to it that you have to navigate to us stay alive in it. Well, it's all let you here and we gotta let you go. But I'm really grateful for you spending some time VJ. And I hope, for a lot of reasons the Cardinals keep winning. But I also hope that that leads to you being in a position where you can choose whether to continue here or be a head coach again, because I think you certainly deserve it.

So I appreciate the time. Man. Thank you. Bro Alright, great conversation with Cardinals defensive coordinator Vance Joseph. He has just some awesome tales on Marco Wilson and his development, and also Byron Murphy and Isaiah Simmons, two other young guys that have really exploded onto the scene here in two twenty one plus Chandler Jones, who became the old time sack leader. Vance had some great thoughts and where he ranks among some of the best players Vans has

seen or coached, including von Miller. But the thing that stood out to me the most was talking about the next head coaching opportunity. As a two year head coach with the Denver Broncos, he did not get a lot of time to build it, and he knows you're probably not going to get a third chance to be a head coach, so you better be patient and selective if and when you get that second opportunity. And I firmly believe he is going to have another chance to be

a head coach. But he loves Arizona. He loves working for the Cardinals, his family loves Arizona, so he can be selective and patient. There's a chance Vans will be a head coach in twenty twenty two for another team in the National Football League, but there's also a great

chance he'll continue to be the Cardinals defensive coordinator. You can make the case as well as the Cardinals offense has played all year and as much as Kyler Murray is in the thick of the MVP conversation, it's the defense that stands out above everything else is the biggest reason why the Cardinals are where they are and why they are a legit Super Bowl contender. We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the

Arizona Cardinals and Hila River Hotels and Casinos. You can also follow us on Twitter at Pash Pod. The Cardinals play the Panthers on Sunday, and then we'll talk to you next week on The Dave Pash Podcast.