The Dave Pasch Podcast - Steve Keim

what the Cardinals might be. The forty nine Ers game was a lot different, but it tells you a lot about where this team is. It's different than what we've seen in the past. Kyler Murray's playing like an MVP, but the defense is good enough to win you a game. Who better to talk about the five and oh star for the Cardinals than general manager Steve Time. He's our guest today on the Dave Pash Podcast. Among the subjects will cover the growth and maturation of quarterback Kyler Murray.

The thing I see more now is two things pre snap and post snap. The things he can do with his eyes. You start to see him manipulating safeties and defenders where he can look off and locate secondary and third options, whereas before it might have been one, two and in run time also talks about what it's like to be a general manager day in and day out.

He'll get into the rookie class and how they're progressing, when he first thought Cliff Kingsbury would make a good NFL head coach, and what he and Cliff did this summer with a celebrity musician. You can follow us on Twitter at pashpot, where you're presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals and Heila River Hotels and Casinos. Without further ado, the general manager of the Arizona Cardinals and two time NFL Executive of

the Year, Steve Kind. So, Steve, let me start by way of a story going back to two thousand and two. I feel like Wolf. It was two thousand and two. Give me a beat, Steve. So, two thousand and two, I get the Arizona Cardinals radio play by play job. I'd done the Bills preseason games in two thousand and one, so I'd been in an NFL training camp, but this was like my first camp as the broadcaster as the guy, and I didn't really know anybody other than my broadcast team.

And I met my first training camp, but I think it was the first day. And there's a knock on my door my dorm room in Flagstaff, and I turn around. I look and it looks like one of the players, offensive lineman, Guy bald young, my age, late twenties, and it's He says, Hi, my name's Steve Kim. I'm one

of the scouts here. We have some mutual friends at Syracuse and you and I struck up a conversation and you said, hey, man, anything you need, any questions about any players or whatever, any help I can extend you, you let me know. And so I would come up to you at training camp and ask you about a certain player that you scouted, and you and I struck up a friendship, and here we are twenty years later. You've risen to not only general manager, but two time

Executive of the Year in the NFL. So the reason I tell that story is when I look at five and zero and I think of all the people that I'm happy is for You're at the top of the list. Man, because our friendship and because of what you've been able to do with this organization. I know, you got to think big picture. You can't get too excited, But how does it feel for you to be five and oh? Well,

I mean, it obviously feels great. But at the same time, you know, I mean, I think that when you're in the fire, so to speak, you can't enjoy or I should say, it's hard to enjoy the process. You know, it's always thinking about tomorrow next week, and you really don't have a chance to think about I need to enjoy this win because you're thinking about the next game

and we have to win that game. That's a balance that I think that all of us struggle with on a day to day basis, is, you know, enjoying the process and the grind and all those sort of things, because when you lose in a national football league, it's the end of the world. When you win, you take a deep breath and say, okay, one to the next. So for me, you know, obviously it's rewarding to be five and oh. And to go back to the first part of your story, the biggest difference is is now

you have no hair. I know, and I had like almost a fulhead of air back so the twenty years is showing up one. I know, bro, I know, man. You know last year obviously things started well. This year feels different to me? Does it feel and again, I know you got to kind of stay in the moment, but does it feel different to you in terms of the energy, the leadership, in the locker room, just the vibe overall. Yeah, And I think it's the way I see it is. It's a it's an air of confidence,

not cockiness. There's humility in there. Yet at the same time, there are enough guys who believe in what we've built, you know, the organization, they believe in the leadership. To me, that's half the battle, because when you put a team together, and we've talked about this before, it doesn't matter how talented you are until they come together and jail as a team. No different from the year we went to

the Super Bowl. I mean, look, we went into the East Coast and got trashed twice that I can remember for sure, playing in Philadelphia and Philadelphia and New England. There we came together late and jailed as a team and got hot at the right time. Twenty and fifteen, we went to an SC championship, you know, there was an air of confidence in that locker room. We had a talented team and we knew it. Yet we also enjoyed the process. We enjoyed each other. And I see

that in this team. The guys really enjoyed being around each other and they sort of view it as a family. How about Kyler? Because everybody that I've talked to, and I'm including fellow broadcasters that call the games that meet with Kyler in comparison to last year, the term that I'm hearing is night and day in terms of his personality, his demeanor, his willingness and kind of owning being the franchise quarterback, and how you handle the media, how you

deal with production meetings, all those things. What are you seeing in that respect from Kyler with leadership and how he is around the team? Yeah, I mean I think it's, you know, a natural ownership that he's taken on. And you know, it's like when I think about a kid going to high school and being a freshman, then you see him as a junior or senior, and how much

different is he. I Mean, obviously people mature, they grow up, and not that he was immature, but understanding how to be a professional what it took on and off the field, and I think that's what sometimes we have a hard time within his business. You want to draft a guy and you want to get him through baggage claim and you want to throw them in and instantly they're plug in play, and that's just not it. Very few An

Quambo's very few, Rondale Moore's it's not reality. These guys take some time, mostly processing seeing things playing at that speed, realizing that everybody around him is that good. And it's not as easy as people think. So you know, we want to be hard on him early on in the process and it can be difficult, and he's he's done a fantastic job, in my opinion, growing in a lot of different areas, mostly on the field. When you're looking

at his ability to see with vision process things. The thing I see more now is two things pre snap and post snap, the things he can do with his eyes. You start to see him manipulating safeties and defenders where he can look off and locate secondary and third options, whereas before it might have been one, two and in run.

How about Like I noticed this on Sunday, I watched him before the game going down to the defensive players saying a word high five in the offensive lineman before going out of the field for that last drive, not saying that didn't happen last year, but again, I feel like I'm seeing more of that. How important is that when you scout a quarterback, when you talk with players

you're thinking of drafting. How much do you have to kind of think about how is this going to translate in terms of leadership and how a player is around his teammates. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's one of the hardest things that a talent evaluator has to do. You can see all the physical traits on tape, but you don't know how a guy is going to play and react within your system. You don't know how their

leadership is going to come off. You don't know whether they're a vocal guy, whether they're a guy that likes to be out in front of people. Some people just like to do their job, and there's nothing wrong with that unless you're playing that position. You know, the quarterback is the alpha male. He's the guy that everybody looks to when things are good when things are bad. So the guy has got to be able to have thick skin.

He's got to be able to have a short memory, sort of like a pitcher in baseball, get a home home un hit it off you, you can't think about it same thing. You throw a pick next play. And that's hard to do, especially when there's six five thousand people in the stadium and there's millions watching on TV. It's not for everybody to say that, Sure, what do you think is the next step for him? What do you as an organization want to see from him the

rest of the season. I think it's just continued small things. Knowing down in distance, understanding little intricacies that you know, for example, when you're flushed out of the pocket, that you don't take a two yard loss by running out of bounds, that you get rid of the ball. Little things like that. But it's coming with time. We're continuing to see little things that he would not have done

in the past, which is exactly what we thought. And year three, by the time we get to this point, which is where most guys, you get to that point in their career, you say, year three, you want to see them evolve and become the kind of player that you envisioned. And you look back and I think about the things that he did his rookie year and most of it was done based off of just pure athleticism

and talent, which is amazing in itself. Then you look at your two and you started to see him ascend and do different things with us, and is his progression Now you're seeing the full compliment of things, which is why we're five. And oh, I remember when Russell Wilson came out, and I know there was some interest from the Cardinals. He ends up going in the third round and obviously had incredible success. And if Russell Wilson comes out today, he's probably the number one pick. But back

then people were afraid right of size and stature. You guys take Kyler Murray number one overall, and it was almost as if that triggered the rest of the league to say, Yeah, it doesn't matter. This kid's talented. He's got a strong arm. We've seen him have success at every level. He's always played that way. He's pretty good at avoiding hits and not getting injured. Do you feel like you guys have set a trend because I mean, I'm just doing college games now and we used to

look at Okay, he's got oh he can make every throw. Oh, he's got NFL size. We're not even talking about that stuff anymore or as much anyway. Yeah, I mean I think with the first hick, you know, possibly setting a trend, but not you know, in general, I think it's what you just said. I think it was Russell Wilson because we work in a business that you know, a lot of it is surrounded by comps. You know, what was

a guy's height, weight, and speed at this position? And if he didn't have the required size and speed, you know, you'd put him in the back side of the board, or he would have to be a guy that proved it. It certainly wouldn't have been a high draft pick. But the fact that Russell Wilson at five ten was able to have that kind of success it led you to

believe that height isn't everything. Because Russell had the compensating abilities to so to speak, mask his lack of height, which is big hand, strong arm, great feet, good vision, can make all the throws, has great decision making, placement, touches as a as a thrower. And when we studied Kyler,

that was really what it came down to. Not only that, but he had rare and unusual speed, explosiveness, all the different traits that you would obviously love to seeing a guy who's six foot five, but he wasn't six ft five, So Canny still do it one hundred percent? In our mind, we felt like he could when you built this team, this particular group, the twenty twenty one version, and you knew you had to make some changes after the way

things ended last year. And I know you've talked about this elsewhere, Maybe you can go a little bit more in depth here. What was top of mine for you? How disappointed were you with last year and health? Fired up were you to fix it? And what were your focuses? Well? I was probably more fired up than I've ever been because I saw what the template looked like and it looked like the possibilities were endless. There just needed to be some additions to areas where we had concerns, And

I felt like it probably started with emotional maturity. And when I say emotional maturity, I mean that in a way where guys have to be able to handle success and adversity the same. You know where you're having success and you don't get too high if you're having some adversity, you have the strength and the metal toughness to battle through.

It wasn't a pretty game against San fran and you know, there were things that weren't clean on tape that we would like to take back, and our coaches want to coach them up, but at the same time, to go through some rough patches the game and still be able to win that game seventeen to ten. I think is says a lot about the character of the men in

that locker room and that's where it all started. That and then probably the physicality of this team, both on offense and defense, particularly on the offensive line and defensive lines. We saw that physicality on Sunday. That was a that was a battle and it was like the hit on the goal line. I don't know if you could hear that in your booth. We could almost hear that hit. Yeah, Isaiah Simmons amazing. And the and the collision and that

sort of thing. And in today's day and age, you know, we've obviously tried to take the head out of the game and that sort of thing, but there are sometimes when you just have to have big collisions and you have to have guys willing to, as Wolfe would say, stick their face in the fan and and that play right there, just to me epitomized a lot of this team, something as small as that, where we have the ball, they have the ball and the you know what two

or three yard line and obviously a game changing play right there in a momentum shifter because of our physicality. So you talk about physicality and leadership, the first guy that comes to mind is JJ Watt. Can you tell us how that went down this summer? I had Michael on and he's and I said, it's amazing that that

didn't get out into the media. The DeAndre Hopkins thing didn't get out, And Michael said, yeah, Steve and I we talk about that and then we'll let you know, coach in when he needs to know what we're thinking of doing and get his input. But there's nobody too leaked because it's just you and Michael. So now that that's in the rear view mirror, how did that deal come down? And are you starting to see that leadership and physicality showing up out of him and how's that

impact in the team. Yeah, and we got in early, you know, and I feel like, you know, when it comes to those type of trades, you have to be aggressive, yet at the same time, you know, when you have a player of JJ's stature or de Hoop stature, and you're trying to get something done and you feel like you're making some headway, you start to wonder, Man, is this is this? Is this a joke? Like are they really considering this or are they playing with our heads?

And in JJ situation, I know he had a bunch of other suitors, and so many times I would look up at the TV and I would see JJ Watt narrows it down to three teams, and I'm thinking, I just got done talking to his agent. How he didn't tell me that, you know? And I'm thinking, you know what, either this guy is a master at BS or or quite frankly, like this is one of the best secrets in the NFL right now. And I'll never forget talking to Michael and telling them, you know, we got the

deal done and the excitement that surrounded it. But JJ's agent let me know that JJ wanted to break the news and this was the picture that he was gonna post, which showed JJ and a Cardinal shirt squatting. And I'll never forget thinking to myself, Man, tomorrow at eleven am. When he posts this, the Internet is going to literally break because people are going to be shocked, especially whenever John Clayton came out and said it was down to three teams and we weren't one of them. I do

the same thing when I went to ESPN. Steve had a big ESPN shirt squat in seven hundred pounds. If the Internet were around then it would it would have blown up. Continuing with the theme of physicality, James Connor five touchdowns in three games, change of pace. When you were watching tape on him and trying to make the decision with the running back room, what went into that

decision and how pleased are you with the way he's played? Yeah, and you know you look at the big pitcher and you say, okay, Well, in the NFL, in today's day and age, most teams have a couple backs to compliment each other. Team we're playing this week, you know with Cleveland,

they have two great backs. You know, we love everything about Chase Edmonds, but we also look back and we think, okay, you look at the game last year when we were playing New England and we had the ball right before half on the one inch line, and we couldn't pound it in something to be said for a bigger back that can finish games, that can do the things that James does. And I don't think most people understand how big James is until you walk up on him and

you see that the guy's guys. He's probably six two, two hundred and thirty pounds, runs with an attitude, runs with the physicality that you look for. And I think the other thing that's surprising about him is he's niftier and a little quicker than you you would anticipate for being that size, so he catches people off guar, already has soft hands and really feel what we did offensively.

James Saxon had intimate knowledge of him being his coach at one time in Pittsburgh, and then we've brought him out here for a visit, spent some time with him and really fell in love with the person as well. So I thought he was a great fit and to me, so far, it's been a really good signing. All Right. I want to get back into this team in twenty twenty one, but I want to give the fans a little bit of insight into what the day in the life of a NFL general manager is like, is every

day different for you? Do you wake up not knowing what the day is going to bring. Do you have a certain routine as opposed to when you get up, when you go to bed? What you do each day? Give me a sense of a normal week in season for Steve Kin, Well, I'm not proud to tell you this, but I'm sort of like a grandpa. I think I probably stay up to about nine or nine thirty most nights. That being said, I don't sleep well. And again I'm not bragging about this, but I like this morning. I

was up at three thirty. I was here by probably four or fifteen. And again that's not the brag. It's the fact that I can't sleep, which is unfortunate. So the bags under my eyes are the telltale sign. So I'll come in and you know, it's nice and quiet, and here the interesting fact that people wouldn't know. I've been in here as early as three forty five am and there's always one vehicle out in the parking lot and it's a white forward raptor and I've never beat

Cliff Kingsbury in here. I don't know if the guy sleeps, if he's a vampire, or what he is. But that guy is in here every morning before I can get here, and it's it's amazing. So I'll get in and first thing I usually do is the thing that I love the most, which is watch film, whether it's college or pro.

And before you know most people get in the office, it gives me a chance to have some meditation time I like to call it, which is really just watching tape, listening to music whatever it may be, podcasts of years and it's refreshing, relaxing. It's what I love to do and I unfortunately don't get to do as much as I'd like. Then are you on the phone a good

part of the day? Are you looking at Okay, this player got hurt, so now we got to start to look at either players that are on the practice squad or players that are the roster who have been inactive, or we got to look at other teams for trades. Yeah. I mean it's constant dialogue and depending on the game, you know how many injuries you incurred and what the moves that you have to make that week. The practice squad players that you have to flip. Generally we bring

in guys on Mondays. They get physicals Tuesday morning. We work them out on Tuesday mid morning because that's our day off of practice. Then we have to make some roster moves. But you know, generally it's constant dialogue all day with guys like coach and our scouting department to talk about the ready list and players that we want to bring in for workouts, and the training room staff and all those guys with you know, the injuries and how long players are going to be out and trying

to forecast that. So it's constant dialogue, you know, meeting with Michael and talking about the team, and you know, we have a lot of dialogue on a daily basis. Generally probably two or three times we talk about the roster and different things with the organization. Again, the thing that we have to do that's different from a lot of people was planning for the future, not just the present. What's on the playlist when you're watching film, what music?

You know, I'm generally a country music fan. I gotta give it to my buddy Blake Shelton, who was a big, diehard Cardinal fan, So I gotta give him a little shout out. Cliff and I went on tour with him for a couple of days this past year, which was a lot of fun. Got to see what it's like to sleep on a bus, which I don't ever want to do again. But it was a nice bus. Though it was a nice bus, but those sleeping areas aren't made for a guy who's six two and a half

two hundred and eighty pounds. I would have paid money to see you and Cliff like on bunk beds and a bus with Blake Shelton. Cliff told me, I think it was one day three. He heard me at about four am dragging my bag to get off there, giggling because I was so delirious. I was ready to go. I was like, get me to the Ritz Carlton as fast as I can. I told the story about you know, you engaging in a conversation with me and initiating that relationship. And I watch on the field before games how you

interact with other gms like you're friends with them. And Frank Kelliender was on last week and he made the point because he knows you, and he said, you know, you almost have to be friends with other general managers because you got to do business with them. So how does that work? I mean, how much of making deals happen is because you've got a relationship with someone other deals that get done with gms you don't like. Uh, you know, I don't know that it's that I don't like.

It's probably more that I don't have a long term relationship with, you know. And the one thing that that most GMS have that other people don't is growing up in the business. A lot of the gms were scouts at one time on the road. So for thirteen years I spent one hundred and eighty five days on the road, traveling from city to city and in many cases being away from your family, away from your friends, and you

sort of become like a nomad. And really the other people that you spend a lot of time with, And I'm talking about eight hours a day in a dark film room with John Schneider or you know, Less Need or any other GM in the NFL Jason light. And you know, as you're spending eight hours with those guys, you're in the same room. You know, you're staying at the same hotels. You may go to the same place to eat for dinner and catch up for a couple

hours before you go right. Five hours of reports so you develop these relationships and then it carries you throughout the rest of your life. And it's no different from Listen, you have a job to do, which I respect, So anything I can do to help you with your job is something that's important to me. Now, am I going to tell you about the trade I might have just consummated? Of course not. You got to know what to obviously

tell people what not to. No different if I'm doing a trade with Howie Roseman or I'm doing a trade with Brandon Bean. It helps the process. When you have that relationship. You're not going to again give trade secrets, but you're going to develop a relationship and just the way you communicate certainly helps you. Mentioned Jason, he texted Wolf and I during one of the preseason TV games and said, I will buy you both a steak dinner if you can somehow get on the air that Steve

and I are good buddies. I'm like, does he think we're amateurs? I looked at Wolf like you didn't think we can work this in So of course we show you and Michael in the booth and Nurse Michael Bidwell, team owner and Arizona Cardinals gym Steve Kim, you know, congratulations to the Buccaneers, you know, the defending champs, and Jason liked their GM. We used to be here and

it's still good friends with Steve Kim. So like five minutes later and Jason Hurd, He's like, dang it, text like I'm like, what did you think you would think after getting the Super Bowl ring that you would need the shameless plug anymore? I know you guys are still tight. And look, this is someone that I know he was in New England prior to coming here, but you know he's from the Steve Kim tree. Is that rewarding to

see what Jason is doing down in Tampa? Yeah. I mean another guy that I grew up in the business with and spent a lot of time on the road. Obviously, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. I mean talk to him several times a week, you know. For me, a guy that you know earned his way and has done an unbelievab job and had some rough years you know that we all go through in this business.

It's not easy. And just awfully proud of him. Man, he is he has done a fantastic job and in this business I think you kind of know who's going to be successful. It's not just the player evaluation part. It's not just understanding how to negotiate contracts, whatever it may be. Because there's so many facets to this job. People don't understand. It's just getting the big picture and understanding people and managing people and having that personality. It's

it's not for everybody. Obviously, you have to have thick skin in this business because it's difficult. You're being judged on everything you do. There's seventy million people that play fantasy football, and sixty nine of them think they're better

than you. You know, and I get that. It's it's a results based business, so getting into it, you have to know what you're getting into, and you have to be able to look at the big picture and understand it and respect the process you talked about all those years on the road working your way up. You really don't see it a lot in professional sports, where a guy works his way up through the ranks at one team and stays with that team, it eventually moves from

a scout to general manager. I think of Eric Spoelstra in the NBA, who is a video coordinator with the heat, worked his way up, assistant coach, all this successful head coach, and I think of you being a scout here working your way up and eventually becoming the general manager of this team. Why do you think that is? Do you think because because I'm sure you had opportunities before you got the general manager job to look elsewhere. Why do you think it is that guys sometimes just look to

take the first job because it's a GM opportunity. And it could be said for coaches too. Sometimes coaches look for the first job to leave to try to take it rather than waiting for the right job. Yeah, you know. I mean I think that's a tough balance because you're so goal oriented and you want everything now today's world, that's the way we're built. And I think that it's it's hard to take a step back and look at the big pitcher and realize maybe this isn't good and

good for me, or it's not a good fit. It's difficult, I know that, because you know, it's hard to turn down the compensation, and you know, obviously the fact that you get to run your own operation, when maybe that's the point is maybe it's not the right situation because you don't get to have a final saying something. But you know that that's the cool thing about me being in this position is to the fact that what you

said has started here. I think myself and Brian Gudakinston Green Bay are the only two guys in the NFL that started off with their organizations at the lowest level, being Area Scout and working all the way up the GM. But the coolest thing about that for me is I don't just wear a cardinal on my polo. I wear a cardinal in my heart, man, because this is this isn't a job. This is my passion. Our fan base is my passion. Making the state of Arizona proud, making

the Bidwell family proud, It's my passion. You know. Somebody said, what would be the coolest thing in the world for you? What would be your ultimate goal for you to envision before you retire, And I said, watching Michael bid Will hold that Lombardi Trophy that would right then and there, But that then we would get there and I'd probably say I want to see him do it twice then three times, so you know, just just making the people of Arizona proud, you know, And that's being here so

long and seeing us go through tough times. That's always been sort of what I visualized. And I believe that one hundred percent. For fans that may be listening and say, Okay, you know Steve, that he's got to say that, Like, I believe that because you've even said things over the years to me, to Wolfe, to others of you really want to make you guys proud, really want you get guys to like what you're seeing. We want to do this right. So I believe that that is absolutely from

the heart. I know as a kid, you've talked about you thought you'd be a GM someday. Did you think after you left NC State you play for a while and then eventually get into scouting or was this something like even in college you had your mindset on well, I had dreams of playing in the NFL and having

an opportunity with the Dolphins. I think when I realized that I was a try hard guy that you know, had limited ability, but the thing that was probably the best was to get hurt, then to be released, and then I had some other opportunities. And I think I was smart enough, or at least self perceptive enough to realize you know what, let's let's move on to the next part of your career, which was great because it gave me the opportunity to start here at such a

young age. You know, I started with the Cardinals I think at twenty five, and it helped me get my career started early and on track. And for about ten years, I just had my head down and I worked my tail off and had those goals and continually, you know, went through the ranks and was elevated to you know, National Scout, College Scouting Director and then ultimately Director of

Player Personnel and then VP of Player Personnel. So the great part about that is is I every step of the way, and the coolest thing is when you start off at such a low level, you learn you know how organizations are run, not just you know what it's like to evaluate a guy at Notre Dame. You understand that there's parts of the business. So whether it's picking up a guy at the airport or taking him to get his physical or running an errand for a coach.

I mean, there's a lot of different things that come with this business that people weren't prepared for, and so I learned a lot of great lessons along the way. You spoke earlier about you and Cliff going on tour with Blake Sheldon. So obviously you and Cliff were friends, and when you hired Cliff as the head coach, there were a lot of people that were curious as to what you saw. We're starting to see that here obviously in year three and I when Cliff was on here.

You know, I knew Cliff from covering college and I remember Brian Greasy and I walking out of a meeting with Cliff when he was the offensive coordinator at Texas A and M. And we both were like, that dude is going to be a hit coach. Like that guy is smart, He's got a great personality, and I think people now he seems looser with the media. You're starting to see that little bit more. What were some of the things that you saw on Cliff and when did

you start to see those things? Does it go back to when Manzelle was at A and M. Does it go back to Mahomes when he was coaching at Texas Tech, Like when did you have an idea that Cliff might be a good NFL head coach? Well through through the years, exactly what you're saying I mean getting to know him and going to scout players, whether it was at Houston or A and M or Texas Tech. Just the interaction

that you would have with him. He always impressed me with the way he carried himself, the way he talked about the players, the way he coached him when I watched him coach on the field. And then I'll never forget Bruce Arians, myself and Michael flew in to work out Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech, spent a lot of time with Cliff, and all three of us came away

from that workout thinking, man, this guy he's impressive. You know, not just Patrick Mahomes, but Cliff as well and Michael, and I said, you know, one day, I think he's going to be a good not only head coach in college football, but he may have chanced to be a good head coach in the NFL. And fast forward started to think about how we could be innovative and do something some things differently. Sometimes people say, well it's it's you know, too early, like Sean McVay was too young

too early. Sometimes guys have to grow in the business and they continually get better and grow within the business. Just like a scout or GM would and felt like he would be a great fit. What's the biggest difference you've seen in him here in year three compared to years one and two. I would say the comfort level of being himself, letting his personality come out, and not being as guarded, and not guarded in a bad way, guarded in a way where you know you're the head

coach of an NFL team. Sometimes there are guys who are almost as old as you, or if they're not, they're as old as you, and that can be tough, especially with guys that are, you know, future Hall of famers Larry Fitzgerald, guys like that, and now you're looking him in the face and you're telling them what to do and and you're trying to coach them up, so you're trying to build credibility with those type of players.

So I just think that again, just coming into his own being more comfortable with not only the players but his own staff. And I think he's We've put together a really good coaching staff here that I've loved watching and working with daily. Just the way they've developed players. We're having a lot of young players that are having success. Guys in their first three years. You know, we make a big deal out of the leaders we brought in,

the Rodney Hudson's, the AJ Greens, the JJ Watts's. That's great and it's been exactly what this organization needed in my opinion. But to have success being a five and O team, you have to have guys in the first three four years that their contracts have success. Guys like Jayalen Thompson, Chase Edmonds, Kyler Murray, Christian Kirk. Go down the list of the guys who were young Isaiah Simmons who were having success. You got to hit on those guys.

What's the biggest difference with Isaiah? We talked about the big hit he's flashing. He had the pick last year against Seattle. He's obviously playing more. Is he just more comfortable? Is he more physical? Is he playing more physically or relying on his instincts more this year? I think comfort and confidence both because you take a guy who played at a number of different positions in college, then you're asking him to do some different things in the NFL.

And we didn't have an offseason. Covid struck. It was tough one everybody. He didn't have an off season. He didn't took him a little while to get it like it does most young guys. Then he has a full offseason, and then he gains confidence. When he gained confidence, now all of a sudden, he can play full speed, play with your eyes. Now that's where we're reaping the benefits. We're seeing a guy that's playing full speed, playing physical, and trusting his eyes. Let's talk about a few of

the rookies saving Collins. I think it was Game four against the Rams. He only played four snap so played much more on Sunday. Is he what you thought and hoped he would be or is it still too early to say that? Yeah? No, and I think that like the Rams game, I think the personnel and the offensive

scheme dictated some of our personnel yesterday. I know he played forty some snaps and again made some mistakes yesterday, but also made some big plays and has been physical, has played downhill and has played fast, all the things that we thought he would do. But then there's some of the same mistakes that we thought would happen and will always happen for young players. So he's on the right track. He's exactly I think where we thought he

would potentially be. And the only way he's going to get better is through experience and through snaps Marco Wilson, First of all, do you see him back against Cleveland? And then second, this guy looks like an absolute stud, like nothing phases him. How did you guys know that? Yeah, I think there's a good chance for sure. And he is a guy that you know, as soon as he came in, everything he did, you know, you start to think to yourself, well, a fourth round pick, even though

we traded up, we loved him. But at the same time, like, are my eyes deceiving me? How every day is he stacking together practices where he looks like he looks you know, where he's going against Hop and aj and Ron Dale and he's having success. And then you know, we gained confidence in him, and he showed that he had the maturity level and the football acumen that you get excited about. And he just continued to gain confidence with the coaching

staff through with the personnel staff. Throw him out there week one and guy doesn't miss a beat and has been excellent. A of a lot of credit goes to our scouting staff and those guys for you know, once

we get past the first couple rounds. To me, once you get the rounds four through seven, that's where your scouting staff has to shine because most players have some type of holes at that point, and you have to find something that you believe in that you can fight for that even though this player may be missing certain traits, they make up for with other things and other strengths that you think are going to be make him a

good pro. I'm sure the evaluation process on Rondale Moore was relatively simple when you were just watching tape, because he flashed on tape like I've got Iowa Purdue this week three thirty Eastern, twelve thirty in ABC. Sorry I had to throw that out there. But when he was at Perdue twenty eighteen, you made that incredible year. And

then there's injuries, then there's COVID. Was the decision tough to take Rondale Moore where you did, no, because I think he would have gone higher if he didn't have some of the soft tissue issues and we didn't have COVID and we had a larger template to evaluate. I just think the guy, the things that he did on tape, his explosiveness, his ability to create mismatches how electric he

is with the ball in his hands. To me, it was something that as soon as you saw him, you envisioned him now in this offense and the different things that Cliff lakes to do. Man, I thought that the possibilities were endless. I know some other teams at the top of round two that were very serious about taking him up there. So for him to slide into where we took him into, we thought it was a no brainer.

And then just after taking him and seeing how mature he is and how articulate and smart he is as a football player, it's been really rewarding a couple more We'll get you out of here because I know you have a job to do. More shameless self promotion I did. I'm doing a few Thursday night games for Westwood one. I did the Houston game a few weeks ago. And you know, David Johnson's barely playing and he was part of obviously the trade to get DeAndre Hopkins, and I

still am in shock sometimes that he's here. Like you talked about JJ Watt when you were kind of going through the process, and you had to kind of like, it's j J Watt really considering coming to the Cardinals and when the blue check I had to look at the blue check mark when Schefter tweeted it out because I was at the gym, I was like, we got DeAndre that DeAndre Hopkins? Like is there another like a kid from a small school. It was like undrafted somewhere.

How did you guys get DeAndre Hopkins? Because this guy, to me is still the best receiver in football. You know, you just have to do your due diligence and make the calls. And I'll never forget, you know, I talked for weeks with Bill O'Brien and we finally came to an agreement on a deal. It was right around the

time and free agency, and I'll never forget. We had the deal greed upon and then COVID struck, And all deals are finalized based on, you know, both players passing contingent on passing and physical So the fact that COVID struck, we weren't able to get both of those players physicals.

So we must have gone, I don't know, another two months without having the knowledge of whether you know, hop and David would pass the respective physicals, and so that that was alarming and needless to say, we were on pins and needles to make sure that everything was fine. But there was obviously a sigh of relief when they both passed and we were able to finalize everything. And you know, he's just been he's been phenomenal. I mean,

the guy is competitive a teammates love him. Obviously, you guys have seen enough of him to realize that when game's on the line, given the ball, and it doesn't matter whether he's covered or not, he's going to come down with it. So he's a guy that just having him on the team, the way he carries himself, the way he competes, he to me, confidence permeates to the

locker room when they think about number ten. I have to ask you this as the last question, otherwise I'm sure I would get people saying you're not doing your job. No one's talking about Larry Fitzgerald right now because the Cardinals are five, and oh, where do things stand with fits like, in your mind, is he retired or is it you know, there's there's a door open for conversation at some point in the future for him to play again. Yeah, I mean, I guess he hasn't announced any retirement, so

I don't know. That. I mean, that's a question that I think he would have to answer. I know, prior to the season, way back probably last year, you know, we knew that the salary cap would would come down, and you know, we communicated and I let him know, listen and be helpful the sooner than later if you let me know what you're gonna do because of you know, the salary cap and trying to plan and forecasts for future things. So he you know, we were on the

same page. And that's the way it's been every year. You know, last several years, he's done one one year contracts and we got him done relatively easy. So you know, the ball was in his court. And just you know, again, I know he's got a lot of things on his plate and he's having a lot of success with different you know things in his life, whether it's the Suns and different business opportunities. So like I said, you know, we miss him obviously. It's great in the locker room,

great on the field. Guy's a consummate pro and one of my favorite people in the world, no question. Hey Steve, thanks so much for the time. Man really apreciate you doing this. Probably thanks Man, appreciate it. Always great to catch up with. Steve Kin been with the organization since nineteen ninety nine. Took over the general manager position in twenty thirteen, two time NFL Executive of the Year and the GM of the only unbeaten team left in professional

football at five and zero. Great stuff on Kyler Murray and how he's matured as a leader and also some of the things he's doing on the field that we didn't see in years one and two. Also Steve's breakdown of the rookie class, how they're maturing, where J. J. Watt's leadership is showing up, and al Cliff Kingsbury has grown in year three. Appreciate Steve's time. I want to remind you that we are presented by BETMGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals and Hila River

Hotels and Casinos. Next week we'll talk with another general manager, the g M of the Phoenix Suns, James Jones will join the Dave Pash Podcast. Thanks to Steve time, and we'll talk to you Sunday from Cleveland when the Cardinals face the Browns.