The Dave Pasch Podcast - Jeff Rodgers

year with that title. He was here in twenty eighteen with Steve Wilkes, retained by Cliff Kingsbury and his staff, and Jeff, who has been in the NFL for fifteen years, has become a very valuable voice on game day during the week in training camp when it comes to shaping the roster. And it will be great to catch up with Jeff and talk about his game day responsibilities as well as what goes in of being a great special

teams player. Who've been some of the special teams fines, what's it like to deal with kickers, and who are some of the young guys that he's got his I on going into preseason game number one. There's some guys that are undrafted right now are we're undrafted in the spring, who I think have a chance, but I'm anxious to

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over Arizona only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem called one eight hundred. Next step all right, time now for our conversation with assistant head coach and coordinator of Special Teams Jeff Rogers. So, Jeff, you're not just a special teams coach. This is your fourth year as the assistant head coach. So for people out there that maybe know what a special teams coach does, but they hear that assistant head coach title a lot of times and they maybe don't

know all that goes into that. Tell the listeners kind of what your responsibilities are on game day besides special teams. Yeah, I mean the first thing I say is, you know, everybody with that title, I'm not sure exactly what they do. I know what I do, but I would I'm not saying that what I'm about to say applies to everybody's second tit or whatever. But you know, some of the things that I'm involved with is primarily the game management stuff. When to call a time out, should we clock the ball?

You know, there's a lot of discussions that go through in you know, go throughout the week and we talk about field position wise, we want to be aggressive in this situation, go forum four down, want to be aggressive in the red area. So a lot of those decisions are discussed throughout the week, but as it unfolds on game day, you never know, are you're gonna have two timeouts,

three timeouts? Defensively, maybe we're we're we're down and we got to be you know, banging timeouts and just lending an extra voice to Cliff so he can really crystallize those decisions. So are you standing next to Cliff if it's two minutes to go in the first half. Are you standing next to Cliff? Is it just on headset where you're saying, hey, let's think here about Hey, you

got two timeouts left. Here's a you know, time and score, clock, situation, down and distance, all that stuff you might want to think about using a time out here. How does that kind of play out? Right? I mean, i'd say both and both connected via the headset and uh, staying next to him obviously if there's a break in the action. You know, I just always feel like he's got to call the game, he's got to make sure he's in the right play personnel group, whatever. I'm kind of waiting

for him to do those things. And if there's a reminder of maybe something we talked about throughout the week or you know, what we're likely to do after this particular play, it's just putting that voice in his ear

so he can make the most educated decision. So for you, Jeff, when did You're not because I've had other people tell me no one knows the rules like Jeff Rogers, Like when did you embrace going beyond coaching special teams in terms of just understanding everything about the game, the rules, the time out, situation, replay, all that stuff. It was that something that you've always done or is that recent. I've always been interested in those kinds of things. I've

been around football my entire life. My dad coached, and you kind of start thinking like a coach at an early age because you're hearing after the game what he might have thought of different situations. The rules are different from college of the NFL, and I thought it was important for me to understand when I first got in

the league what the differences were. As time goes on, you kind of get to know the everyday things, what you can and cannot do, what they're gonna call flag wise, and it kind of started involve evolving into the clock things, into the time out things, and really when it's probably when I got to Denver in twenty eleven, about ten eleven years ago where that I started. I was with coach Fox at the time, John Fox, and at that time I kind of started to be involved in those

kinds of that line of thinking. And when Peyton Manning signed with US in twenty twelve, hearing his thoughts on different things, and I just really got interested in it and have stayed that way. And then the Cleveland game last year. Cliff isn't there obviously because of COVID, So your role changes. What was that game like and what were your responsibilities in that game that would be additional

to what it would be in a normal Sunday. Yeah. So, I mean basically, you know, in that game, that whole situation was a little bit unique. You know, we found out on Friday evening. It was kind of at the end of the day and uh found out what the situation was, and when they said they wanted me to handle the game, the game management part of it. Direct responsibilities.

Now I instead of being the guy who says, hey, we may think about calling a time out, like that's that's my decision at that point, or go for it on fourth down. Those are my decisions. But you know, I alluded to it earlier. We talk about the stuff starting Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and as things unfold, we kind

of have the plan. So in that particular game, I really just tried to call it as Cliff and I had talked about things, how we had talked about going into the game what we wanted to do, and it was basically like wearing the wristband on you you know, on your hand, what would Cliff do here? You know, and and try it, because those are the things if he's the head coach and he's the one that makes those decisions, those decisions seem to be reflective of what

he would do. Of all the great wins last year, that was my favorite that game because Cleveland was a pretty good team and obviously with Cliff out, and there were others that weren't there because of COVID. You know, for most of us that maybe aren't as connected to what's going on inside the locker room and inside the meeting rooms every day. It felt like the operation didn't skip a beat. That was an impressive game for you and Vance Spencer Whipple just to kind of step in.

At least from our standpoint, it seemed like you guys were stepping in. But listening to you talk here, it doesn't sound like that was a case. Sounds like this was part of the planning that goes into a game. Yeah, you just you kind of just follow the plans, stick to stick to what we had talked about. You know that it was one of those situations because even game day morning, there's still guys testing positive and being pulled from it. So you had really no idea until the

ball was kicked off. Okay, this is who we got, this is the plan. We just need to go execute it. And I think everybody just put goes aside and whatever your responsibility is, whatever it had been, whatever it's about to do now, um what whatever, you know, our responsibilities are now, whether increased, decreased, or changed completely. Um, you know,

it was just about execution. We talked to our players about that stuff all the time, so as coaches obviously that was uh something that that was important to us. The game day stuff I felt like, went, well, um, you know there was there there's also guys in the box who are helping us out with situational stuff and field position and um. But yeah, everybody just kind of

pitched in and said, let's go do this. Your other job being in charge of special teams this time of year, everybody wants to talk to you because everybody knows, especially for a team that's coming off making the playoffs, that you know a lot of guys at the back end of the roster, whether they make the final fifty three is coming, you know, comes down to whether they can play special teams or not. How involved you is it daily,

is it weekly? Is it towards the end when you got to start making cuts that you're having convert stations with Cliff or with Steve Kim and others in the personnel department about, hey, this is somebody we really need to think about because they can be very valuable to us on special teams. Yeah. I would say starting from when the when the smoke clears with the draft, free agency is already over, you kind of have the bulk

of your team. Uh, there's still maybe one or two signings that happen in the summer or whatever, you have the bulk of your team. So it's it's it's a constant evaluation. They're constant communication. I talk about roster stuff every day with somebody. I try to talk to the position coach, try and talk to the coordinators because it's not just going to come down to the kicking game, but you know, the guys that are going to be up on game day, what's their role? And at this

point in training camp it's probably too early. You never know who's going to get hurt. You never know what situation make him up. Another player you know, may trade for a guy, you know, something like that. So you're you're kind of trying to figure this out and and

you let a play out. After to the second preseason game, it kind of starts to come and focus, and going to that third preseason game, you usually know these are the position battles, okay, And when you're the special team's coach, you have to have a broad perspective because you know, hey, are we going to keep three running backs or four running backs or five running backs? Well, if you keep five running backs, that numbers coming from somewhere. So are

we taking one less safety? Are we taking one less d lineman? And it may not just be on that side of the ball. And then injuries are always going to play into it. So it's really early right now, but as time goes on, we'll continue to have those conversations. We have weekly meetings with everybody, with coaches, with personnel and kind of talk through things so everybody can kind of get on the same page at least with what

the evaluations are. And when we get towards the end of camp, it's all right, we know about this guy, probably not rep him as much. These are the two guys we need to see. Let's feed him and play him a bunch and see what happens. You have anybody, I'm sure you do. I don't know off the top of your head that you can think of of a guy that, like you fought for at some point in your career that turned out to be like a home run.

You fought for this guy, he ended up making the roster and turned out to be a great special teams player or a great player period in your career. Because you've had, you know, several stops bears. You mentioned Denver, Carolina, San Francisco, and then now here in Arizona. Yeah, there's really two that stand out, most recently in twenty eighteen. Zeke Turner. You know that that was a guy we felt strongly could really make an impact on our team.

I watched a lot of his college tape before the draft, knew what kind of player he could be, and you know, it was a decision at the at the end where whether he was going to make the team or not. And um, you know, I'm not the only person that like Zeke. I don't want to, you know, say I'm solely responsible for that, but he was a guy that we definitely fought for and has played. Now he's in

a second contract, so that worked out. And then probably the one that stands out the most, it was Chris Harris, who was a corner in Denver and we played here in the preseason. You know, when we played Arizona in the preseason. I think he made three tackles in that game. He was our leading tackler in the preseason. And that was a decision that got made, you know, at the cutdown, and there was a long I won't get into discussion, but it was a lengthy discussion between him and another player,

and thankfully we're able to keep him. Played really well for us in the kicking game, and about week five he started starting on defense and he's had a really good career. Another well, a couple of guys that are current specialists for the team you've had a relationship with for a long time, Matt Prater and Andy Lee. When Andy Lee was in San Francisco, My goodness, Wolf and I would be doing the game, we'd be like during a commercial, like, man, I can't stand Andy Lee because

you guys killed us, Like every punch was perfect. When we would play you guys when you're in San Francisco, every single time he would pin us inside the ten yard line. He's been a great bunner for a long time. And then Matt Prater, who are you with in Denver? Right? Yes? And first of all, what's how do you as a special team's coach handle a kicker, Because obviously everybody says

they're different. We see that we've had a lot of different personalities come through here and a lot of times we watch on the sideline and nobody's talking to him. How do you handle those conversations or do you not have conversations with kickers during games? Yeah, I honestly I

try not to. And even you know, as guys are, when a guy's an established, a veteran, there are certain parameters that I believe in common denominators in which you know, whether it's timing or you know, performance or whatever like I have kind of it really needs to be within these things. But if they've made it to this level, they've had success. I'm not going to try and change them.

There's things that we've talked about guys after seasons. This is something you may want to think about it, but at the end of the day, that's their job and that's their career. And I think sometimes as a coach. We can get in our own way and try and change a player to something he's not comfortable doing, and his performance going to suffer from that as well. So I you know, with the kickers and the punters, and

you learn, you learn over time. You know, you work with different guys and some things work, some things don't, and how to you know, manage that room and you know kind of how they fit in with the team and stuff. You know, those things are all changing, and all those guys are different, and I don't mean like different in a bad way. They're just different personalities. You're human, So you're trying to develop a relationship so that you can beyond, you know, the same good ground when stuff

does come up. But I try to, you know, as much as I can, let them do their thing. So when it comes down, because Matt last year, I had a great year and obviously was successful from fifty and beyond sixty and beyond. Do you have going into the game based on whether it's a home game or on the road, and good weather on the road and bad weather kind of in your mind, Okay, this is where I'm gonna push for Cliff Hey, we need to kick it here or does it also depend on how the

game's going. Yeah, I'd say both. I mean, we're not going to ever put Matt on the field where we feel like it's out of his range, like, hey, he probably can get it there, Like, that's not that's not fair to Matt, that's not fair to our team. So I've got I mean, i've been I've known Matt for eleven years and uh kick for us in Denver and obviously joining the team here, I kind of got an idea of what a skill set is and in pregame, you know you're gonna kind of gauge those things. It

doesn't change all that much, all things equal. Now you go to Denver, sure altitude maybe three three to five yards. We're going to Mexico City this year. Okay, that's like twice as high as Denver. So I was involved in the O five game there and probably the highlight of pregame warm up. The place was going absolutely nuts. I

have no idea what's going on. And I turn around and it's Joe Nedney kicking seventy five yard kicks and I think it was Neil Rackers here at the time doing the same thing the other way, and they're loving it, right because it's soccer's kind of kind of their deal, at least was at that time. But those are the things that can influence. Obviously, if the weather changes, that can influence those things as well. And is Matt involved

in those conversations. Sure, Matt always wants to kick. I mean sometimes you got to save him from himself, like I know I got this or whatever. It's like, Matt, this is an eighty yard kick hill out. But yeah, I mean we talk after pregame warm up and he'll kind of tell me, you know, what is our normal parameters and then what is the end of half, end of game? Like, feel like it's going to take a really good kick, but I feel like I can get

it there from whatever wherever it is, Jeff. There have been a lot of successful head coaches in college football and in the NFL who have a background coaching special teams at some point. I think a Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech Beamer Ball. I know Urban Meyer when he was at Ohio State in Florida. Even though he's the head coach, he was heavily involved in special teams. For a lot of those guys, that was their background Nick Saban, I think mostly defense. He might have been at some

point involved in special teams. John Harbos had a great run in Baltimore and he was a special teams coach before he got that job. So it is being a head coach something that interests you? And do you think that special teams coaches will continue to get opportunities to become head coaches? Yeah? I hope they do. And yeah, it's something that interests me. But it's always you know, be the best at the job that you got. And

you go back to light. I go back to the question you asked me earlier, like what goes into the clock management, the game management, things like that. If you're if you have aspirations to do those things, it's probably your best interest not to wait till you have that

job before you acquire that knowledge. I think there's plenty of guys whom the roster management, game management thing, those are things that that guys struggle with in their first time in that chair at the NFL level, and it's just because that's not something they've been involved in if they were a defensive coordinator an offensive coordinator, and eventually guys get it right. I mean, it's not like it's impossible to learn. You don't have to study that stuff

for ten years to be good at it. But um, you know, if you're gonna be hired for that job, you know, you hope that that you got you have that skill set and you can manage the game accordingly. You mentioned earlier that your dad was a coach, and you have two brothers, and one of them is coaching with the Chargers. Yep, he's a D line coach there. And then your other brother is not coaching. The other

brother is not coaching. The other brother is in real estate in Austin, Texas, having a great time, plays a lot of golf. But he does have a claim to fame. He does, he does. You know, I've told the story a few times. My older brother was our quarterback in high school. I went to Weston High School in Austin. We've had some good players there, and my older brother was a starter as a senior. Little brothers the JV quarterback.

He's the heir apparent. He blew his knee out in the preseason of a sophomore year, and his backup came in and his backup was named Drew Brees, and Johnny never saw the field again at quarterback until Drew got hurt. Later on, Johnny end up going to defense. But uh, and had a good senior year. They won the state championships, so he's got that on me. I never won one, but uh yeah, that's the kind of the story that comes up when it when it comes to Drew and Johnny.

Do you guys still talk to Drew? Yeah, if I saw him in pregame warm up, you know, we would talk. And Drew's a great person. And you know, people asked me, did you know in high school he was going to be a Hall of Famer? No, who knows that, right, Um, But Drew was really competitive and he's a good person. He's got a good heart, worked hard. But yeah, my younger brother, Johnny, still keeps in contact with him. He

would go to games. We played the Saints a couple of years ago and they were down on the field before the game and I had to ask Johnny, let me see that hat that you got tucked by in your back, and sure enough it was the Saints hat. So he's rooting for the other side. But you know, stuff happens before I got this job. In two thousand and two, I did one year a preseason for the Buffalo Bills. I was doing Syracuse their radio football and basketball.

I went to school there and then went back and John Butler was the GM in Buffalo and gave me a chance to get into the NFL the late grade. John Butler, and I'll never forget the trade that he pulled off, trading out of the number one pick, which would have been Michael Vick and instead ending with Ladanian, Tomlinson and Drew Brees. Sure, and a lot of people said Drew Brees too short, small, doesn't have big enough arm, not gonna make it in the NFL, and then you

look at what an incredible career drad. I wouldn't be shocked. I know that he did the broadcast thing last year and he's not this year. Wouldn't be shocked if he tried to come back. I mean, Tom Brady's just turned forty five, still going strong. I don't know. I haven't had those conversations with him. Uh, Drew certainly competitive enough to pull it off. He just if he decides to

do that, I wouldn't bet against him. But you know he's got a he's got a family now, and I know he loves those kids and loves watching you know, didn't run around and time will tell. Time will tell on that one. He used to He started out obviously with the Chargers. The Cardinals play the Chargers, So that will be the Rogers Bowl with your Saturday after the Sunday after Thanksgiving with your brother Jay. So will you guys talk that week or do you not talk when

you play against each other? Yeah? I mean Jay and I don't talk on a daily or weekly basis. We keep in contact and we talked, you know, every so often. I would doubt that we'll talk that week until pregame warm up or maybe the day before. This will be the the the third time competing against each other as coaches, the fourth time in our lives that we've been on opposing sidelines. So I was at Kansas State, he was at I was stayed in two thousand and eight. We won.

He was with the Bears in twenty eight team when they came here, they won. So we're one and one. This would be the rubber match. But when when I was seven and Jay was eight, we were on different T ball All Star Game All Star teams and my team beat his. So I still think I'm up two to one. So he was with the Bears the year after you left the Bears. Yeah, so we worked together. He was in Denver for two years and then when Fox he got hired in Denver, he kept Jay on,

so we were together for six years. Then we all we all went to Chicago. So I left after three years. Jay stayed on for three years and then he went to the Charger last year. So obviously your your dad, you talked talked about and John Fox. You mentioned a couple of times. What kind of impact did coach Fox have on you? And who are some of the other coaches that you've worked with and worked for over the

years that have influenced you. Yeah, a lot of guys. Um, you know my chronologically, Um, you know there's stuff that I still remember. A guy named Mike Hale who was the coach at LVO the Eagles when I was seven years old. You know, you remember some of those things. I wouldn't say that that's you know, influential, Or Melvin Jordan and Champagne Illinois who coaches for for a few years. Um, once I got into the ranks, Uh, you know kind of started you know coaching myself. Uh, John mcvic had

an impact on me. Um, you know, organizationally and and detail wise. That was good for me. Larry McDuff is the guy worked with in Arizona, brought me in the league in San fran Uh. There's nobody who's ever been better that I've observed in terms of being detailed off the field presentation wise. I had a chance to work with Al Everst for one year and to this day, Al is the guy who influences more of my on field coaching drills things like that, you know, with the

head coach stuff. Foxy probably influenced me as much as anybody had, but you know, I worked for him for for nine years, and cliffordminds me a lot of him because both those guys are really really good at personal relationships.

They both of them have a knack for connecting with guys, getting the best out of guys, having good enough relationship where the players can tell them, hey, coach, this is something we may want to think about doing differently, you know, and hearing those guys out, and you know, I would say those two guys probably as much as anybody have influenced me, and it's just different ways to do things. As an assistant. I was fortunate to work with three ordinators.

This is I don't know my six or seventh head coach that I've worked for. And you pull things from everybody. You see how things are done. If you disagree with it, you're like, man, I'm glad I at least saw that, because that didn't work at all, and so I want to try and avoid that, you know, in the future. But yeah, I mean all those guys. And then obviously my dad's influenced me a heck of a lot, especially growing up. How much does Ron Wolfley talk your ear

off about special teams? Do you have to listen to him? Oh, Jeff, when I did it for Pro Bowls? Do you have to sit there and listen to him talk about how special teams should be played and coached? You just tune him out like I do now. I don't tune him out Wolfs. He's told me some really good stories. And you know the obviously wolf didn't stop playing last year, right, Like, so anything that he's talking about something I don't think forty years ago, but you know, it's been been a

few years. But um, you know, I think when you hear guys talk about stuff, twenty thirty years later, they're really impactful and impacted them. So, you know some of the things that and he's told me about some of the guys that have coached him, and you know, you just realize that the guys that you're coaching, especially if if they're here for a couple of years or whatever, you know, the things that you can do or say or helped them with that might really make an impact

on them. For this team, Who were some of the young guys as we get started with the preseason against Cincinnati, Who are some of the guys that you really have an eye on and want to see how they do in these games? Yeah, I mean, I think you start with the draft picks and kind of work from there because it really there's so much that it's going to be influence on the roster based on how those young

players develop. And you know, obviously when we're evaluating gays for the draft, you know, you're doing your homework on those players and you see them play in a variety of different ways and try and project their skill sets. But unless you're coaching a guy and you've been with him in the building, like, it's really tough to know personalities learning style, you know, toughness. Our scouts try to find out all the information. They do a heck of a job, but at the end of the day, you

got to connect with that guy one on one. So not only how they're doing for me, but are they doing so well on offense or defense that there's a different player whose role may change and how do they fit in those things. So I'd say the non offensive lineman draft drafted players that we took, and there's some guys that are undrafted right now. Are we're undrafted in the spring who I think have a chance, But I'm anxious to see them against NFL competition and see what happens.

What about the return position kick returner, because obviously it's changed now it's I assume still important, but it's not as significant as it was fifteen years ago because of the way the rules have changed. Yeah, it's a tough one because you know, I guess I go back to my four years in Denver and there's always that conversation that comes up, like we're playing at home, every ball is going to be a touchback. Why are we even

working on this right now? And we could be working on something else well, with a minute left to go in the game. If there's a fifteen yard flag and they're kicking off in the twenty that ball's landing and played, it's probably going to be to our you know, to our advantage to have worked on something in that situation. They are more infrequent in terms of the returns and what they used to be. But when the ball lands

in play, you've got to be productive. And you know, we're still working through who that guy is going to be, and some of it's gonna shake out. Most of the guys who are working back. There are offensive players, running backs and wide receivers, and you know, a year ago, Rondale's role on offense wasn't what it probably will be this year. You know, if he's playing, say thirty to fifty snapped some games, he was you know a little over fifty percent as much as you know, eighty ninety percent.

But he's in a role where he could do both return jobs. That's probably not gonna be the case this year, especially early on in the season. So we're still working through who who's who's going to be the punt returner in the kick returner. There's a number of guys that may win that job, and hopefully we get some opportunities in the preseason, because when it's live, it's different than what it is in practice. How about you know Benjaminy return kicks last year. His role is probably going to

increase on offense. So does that mean he's not in the mix? No? I think as a guy, if a guy's starting on offense or defense, you really got to think about that um as a running back, specifically an Eno situation. As things stand right now, James has likely to be the starter. He's likely to keep the bulk of the reps. But there were situations last year where it was chasing James and they were splitting time. So if Eno works himself into that range, maybe we would

have to consider that. But you know, it's got a really good skill set and he's matured a ton since his rookie year, and I'm anxious to see what it looks like now because his confidence has grown so much, and I think he's embraced that role as an opportunity for the guy, for a playmaker to get the ball in his hands, and usually guys like to be in

that position. Last question for me, Jeff, I'm curious. This is something probably you know fans don't think about, but what's the hardest adjustment You mentioned you want to see the young guys and how they do. What's the hardest adjustment going from college and most of these guys probably don't play a lot of special teams in college to now the NFL. What's the hardest thing for them in terms of adjustments to learn it? Is it? The mental side of it is learning to be okay with being

a special team's player. Like some guys, you know, maybe look down on that in college and now there's maybe they don't realize that could be their meal ticket. I mean you mentioned his Ekiel Turner where he is. I mean Dennis Gardek got into the NFL probably because he plays special teams. Now he's an impact player on defense. I mean you mentioned some guys earlier that have started out as special teams players but then end up starting

and having great careers. Yeah. Well, in terms of player development, I think every organization, if they had to draw it up as best they could the first year, they would be Now, everybody wants them to be Hall of famers right in the rookie year, But the reality is if a player can come in and contribute in the kicking game and get some burn on offens or defense, and their second year they're more of an impactful player on defense, and by the third year they're starting right and then

guys that but there are guys that can carve out an entire career doing just the kicking game. But eventually, that's the way you wanted to work. You want to you know, young players developing players in the kicking game. They get better, they get better on their side of the ball. They're making the team and making plays on offensive defense, and the next group is coming in the next wave, and you're just trying to repeat that process,

and that balances out your cap and stuff. Anytime you're not just you know, paying a lot of money for guys that maybe have limited roles. I think the biggest challenge for guys coming out. I do think that there are some guys who have to get over the fact that they're not maybe playing eighty plays in a game, that they're only going to play twenty to twenty five

covering kicks. I do think that has an impact. But I also think that between the Vets and the head coach and me and Devin Fitzsimmons, that they quickly realize that this is important, Like you are not going to address on game day as a backup unless you're contributing to the kicking game. So they understand that, hey, this is what I gotta do right now. Hey, if the

guy in front of me gets hurt. If I'm a player and the guy in front of me gets hurt and I play outside backer, I can't go in the game if I'm inactive, So I've got a better chance of having a defensive role obviously if I'm up on game day. The biggest challenge for those guys, though, is the mental part of things, because it's a job, it's

full time. They're no longer going to school. I don't think the you know, general public knows how much meeting time that those guys need to sit through and at Sometimes it can be it can be monotonous, and if they're not focused, you know, it's tough. And this generation of players that are coming out of college, they've been in a digital world their whole life. It's been iPad's been cell phones, it's you know, texting. You know, everything is short and quick, and it's hard to keep their focus.

More than twenty twenty five minutes and it's just the way the world is, sure, so as coaches, we got to adopt that are just our coaching style, to adopt it to those guys and make sure our message is still going through even though we may have to teach them in a different way. Listen, Jeff, this has been

great man. You're obviously a big part of the organization and want to get a John, get the fans a chance to kind of hear more about your story and also how valuable you are to the coaching staff and how all of you are not just with special teams but on game day and decision making and helping Cliff manage the game. And it was great to chat with you. Appreciate Yeah, anytime, really great to catch up with Jeff. You can just hear just very smart. He knows the

game very well. And hopefully, if the Cardinals continue to win like Vance Joseph, Jeff will get an opportunity to be a head coach in the NFL. John Harbaugh has been the standard for a special teams coach that's gotten a chance to be a head coach. Hopefully Jeff will get an opportunity at some point because he's very smart and has done a great job with the Cardinal special teams and as he heard, is very involved during the week with game planning, decision making, when to go for

it on fourth down clock management. He's a very important person on game day and an asset for the Cardinals and for head coach Cliff Kingsbury. We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner the Arizona Cardinals, and by Hila River Hotels and Casinos. You can follow us on Twitter at pashpod, and also go to your podcast platform and rate us and tell us what you think.

If there's a future guest that you want to hear from, whether it's Cardinals related, NFL related, or something completely outside the National Football League, we'd love to hear from you and what you think. Thanks again to Jeff Rogers, Cardinals Special teams coordinator and assistant head coach, and thanks to you for listening to another edition of The Day Pash Podcast.