The Dave Pasch Podcast - James Jones

comedians like James Rode and Frank kelliendo previous guests. So given that the Phoenix Suns are coming off a Western Conference championship, we thought we would talk with general manager James Jones about what to expect from the Suns here in twenty twenty one twenty two. I truly believe it would help you If our guys are available, I don't think there's anyone better. We will still talk football. James grew up in Miami and as a big Dolphins fan.

He'll give us thoughts on the Cardinals and maybe even a comp an NBA comp for Kyler Murray. But we're also going to talk about the Suns how they got to the title last year, what he thinks of this year's team. Everybody's talking right now about DeAndre Ayden and the Son's electing not to give him that max extension. James will talk about that, what to expect from Devin Booker this year, and whether Chris Paul can play until

he's over forty. And Lebron James, somebody that James Jones knows very well, won three championships with Lebron in Cleveland and Miami. James will give his most memorable Lebron James

moment in the upcoming podcast. So thanks for tuning in as we talk a little NBA, a little NFL, a little Cardinals and Sons with Phoenix Suns GM James Jones, Well, James, obviously you have an incredibly busy week with the season opener Wednesday against Denver, so I appreciate the time before we get into the Suns and the twenty twenty one

season as well as the upcoming campaign. I want to talk a little football with it because I know growing up in Miami, having played collegiately at the University of Miami, that you're a big Dolphin fan. So give me your take on the Dolphins so far here in twenty twenty one. I mean, well, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

It's been a tough start to the season. You know, as a Dolphins fan, we've had some tough times, and you know, you you wish that you could take advantage of the early part of season with the weathers in your favor, you know, the humidity and the heat. We typically try to get off to a good start, but

this year with the injuries, with two we struggled. But you know, coming off a tough loss against Jacksonville, I'm still bullish on this team, just because I believe in coach Flores and I think we have the right culture, we have the right mentality, and now we just have to make the right places at the right time. So, growing up, were you a Bob Greasy fan, a Dan Marino fan, both one or the other. Who is like

your guy at the quarterback position when you were growing up? Um, I was a Marino era, like that was a Greasy before me. But you know, we had Mark Duper, Mark Clayton Marino. We had some really good some really good years and so I'm a Marino guy all the way. No, I know you're young, enough. I knew Greasy was way before you. I just didn't know because obviously they had the last undefeated season, true undefeated season, nineteen seventy two.

How much attention do you pay to the Cardinals now that you're living here in the GM of the Suns?

Oh Man, I watched them. You know, I've always said, like, I have such an affinity and a respect for football players growing up in Florida, being an ex football player up until I went to high school, of going to the EU and playing with a lot of the world's best football players, Hall of Fame, Bubble players, um, just understanding that team dynamic and and how hard it is to win every play and to win a game in football. I have the utmost respect for those guys, and I

enjoy watching watching good teams. And you know, Arizona, the Cardinals, I'm here, you know, they're They're my one B team and it's been great to watch them grow. Um, you know, they're their teammates, like they're just like us. I view us as one big community, one big family of athletes and and and guys that are out there just trying to win and bring you know, pride and respect to

their city. So it's been great to watch them. And you know, as much as you know, I wish the Dolphins become or remain the last undefeated team in recent history. I want to make sure I would. I would be more than thrilled to see the Cardinals just run the table this year. This is probably James an unfair question, but I was thinking about this last week because I did the MAVs Hornets preseason game last Wednesday, and I threw us out there, and then I thought, now, maybe

it's not a good comparison. I was trying to think of a Kyler Murray NBA comp and I thought about LaMelo Ball because of just his incredible athletic ability and his talent level and his brain that probably he's probably more like in Mahomes in the realm of a Patrick Mahomes type than he is a Kyler Murray. Can you think of anybody who might be a Kyler Murray comp

in the NBA? Oh man, That's that's a tough one. Um. I mean, but if I had to say, I'd probably say, I mean, I don't want to knock, but I'd probably say Trey Yon, just in the sense that, like you watch him as a as a smaller guy, but he just plays so big, like he has such a big impact on the game, so m and offensively just so talented.

So I would say that more more than LaMelo. But I get where you're going with LaMelo because at such a young age that their command for the game and anticipating where guys will be and being able to make every throw in every play, especially when you need it. It's unique. So um, that's that's that's that's pretty spot

on though. But I like to Trey Young. And honestly, if you really dig deeper, I mean, Steph is older now, but the way Steph in so many respects change the game and change the NBA with his range, Trey Young is, you know, kind of a disciple in that regard. I mean, Kyler is kind of changing the NFL a little bit. So I don't know the Steph comparison is there, but I do like to Trey Young because of just you know, how young Trey is. No pun intended, Yeah, I mean no,

it's it's they're just they're just young. They're dynamic, man, like you know, they're they're they're smaller guys and you people always equate like being smaller at being a disadvantage, but when you have guys that can use it to their advantage and do it at a high level, you

have to respect. So how's Larry doing, Fitzgerald. I don't know how much contact you have on a regular basis with fits, but obviously Cardinal fans are interested in his life right now post football, even though he hasn't come out and said that he's retiring, He's not obviously playing right now. So now, how much has Larry involved in the Suns And how often do you guys talk? I

mean we connect, We connect regularly. He's always there to just you know, give words of encouragement or an inside or perspective, you know, as a as a high achieve or high performer for so many years, he just sees the game in sport in generally differently than most people. So he's good. You know, he's enjoying the time with his Family's enjoying the time you know, away from football. But I know that the Suns are doing well and the Cardinals are doing well, and so for him things

are are awesome. So I'm curious James at this time last year obviously, last year was strange coming off the bubble, the performances you guys had in the bubble. I'm sure the expectations were higher than they were going into the

previous year. But did you think coming into the season, hey, I put together a championship team, or were you unsure because of adding Chris Paul who obviously has had a lot of success but hadn't got to that point yet in his career and hoping that DeAndre Ayton would take the next step and mcel bridges and Devin Booker. Where were you at this time a year ago with regard to your thoughts on how deep you guys could go in the playoffs or even if you could get to

the playoffs last year? Well, I mean, well, I thought we were legitimate playoffs contender last year, whether or not we get to the finals, even with the loaded roster. I've been around as long enough to never assume anything. You get into the playoffs and you're you know, we were fortunate. You can be one ankle spraining away from defeat. And so for me, it's always been the hurdle has

always been get to the playoffs. And once you get to the playoffs, if you have a team that can be consistent night in and night out, and you have depth, you have a real shot. I think the best teams, best healthy teams, overcome the unhealthy, star studded teams, and so you just want to increase your odds. So I thought by adding Chris, we increased our odds drastically, giving ourselves a shot to make some noise in the playoffs.

And then when you put together the performances of Devin and DA and mchl and Cam Johnson and Campaign you know, Jay Crowder and Tory Craig, when all those guys have their moments, you start to believe, like, okay, if we can maintain this consistently over the course of you know, these twenty eight games or sixteen games, we have a shot. And I thought we did last year, and I definitely believe we have another shot this year. It was so weird for us, James at ESPN, we didn't travel last year.

I did a lot of your games, but I'd be in my house and I live in Chandler, so here I am twenty five minutes from the arena and I can't even see you guys in person. Thankfully, that's change this year. We're back in person. We were in the playoffs last year. But I didn't have any of your games in the playoffs, but I remember doing some games in January, and I think one of them was with Jeff Van Gundy and we both said I think it

was the Milwaukee game. I'm trying to remember in January, but it was after the game, Jeff and I were both like, man, that's a legit team. Like that, that's a playoff team. And this was in January. When did you know that it was real that you guys were, Hey, we got a chance to do something special this year. Was there a turning point or a particular game where you really started to believe that it was possible you

guys could do what you did. I would say there was a course of a few games, and it was after we got off to our start. I believe we were at eight and eight or eight and seven. We were close to a five hundred team at some point. And for me, I always say, you know, I told our guys going into last year that I mean, I'm gonna watch how we respond to the dip. I want to watch how we respond to the adversity early and see if if our effort changes, see if our approach changes.

You know, see if we stick to our beliefs and we stick to our principles, or if we start to flounder and start chasing things outside of our nature. And and we were able to bounce back and string together some victories, but they were consistent, you know, they weren't you know, us reinventing ourselves. It was doubling down on what we believe point five, moving the ball to find, communicate.

And so when I saw us do that early in the year, and I saw like everyone was committed to digging deeper and doubling down on our principles, I felt like we have a shot Because I mean I played a lot of basketball, watch a lot of basketball. You eventually revert back to your nature and you go back to your principles. And if you can lean on those in times of adversity, I know that they're going to serve you well in times or those opportunities present themselves

for you to have success. As someone James who's used to winning, you won multiple NBA championships as a player, was the end of last year, how much of it was a celebration of what you accomplished? And maybe this isn't the right term, but how much of it was a funeral the way things ended, how excited were you for what you would accomplished and how disappointed were you for not being able to close it out. I use

the word numb. You know it leaves you numb, And that works both ways because you know, if you have an experience or you experienced something that is like overwhelming, you don't know how to respond. You're almost kind of like at a loss for words. At the same time, if you experienced defeat like we did, it leads you kind of had a loss where like for words and

emotions and thoughts. So I was numb, but I got to that place after having years of success and failure at the highest level in and But what happens is when you come out of that, you know that you don't want to see that spot again. You will see it, but you want to see it on the other side, Like you want to be numb from success, not defeat. And so it's it's a fuel for you. And I'm excited for what we can do this year because I believe all of our guys want that other side of

that numbness. So let's talk about the team you have going into this game against Denver, you got the Lakers Friday, and then you're off and running. Obviously, everybody's talking right now about the decision not to give the five year extension to DeAndre Ayton. Can you tell us what went into that decision and why you guys decided not to

do the extension for the five years. I mean, well, there are a lot of factors, but but ultimately we just we we just couldn't get off of or we couldn't agree that anything less than a five year max um was acceptable. And you know that that it's it's it's odd I talk about it. It doesn't change how we view DeAndre, doesn't change how we view this team.

It doesn't change what we've done, you know, the moves we've made to continue to build this team and grow our continuity and improve our environment so that we can have like real aspirations and goals to win a title and and be legitimate contenders. UM. It just from a timing perspective, from UM UM like strategy standpoint, UM flexibility standpoint, the five year max just wasn't something that we were going to do, and you know, we didn't get it done.

But like I said, that's just for now, Like we fully intended to help DeAndre and c DeAndre and his team progress and get something done. We just didn't get it done yet. So as a follow up, was this a financial decision? Then? Was this something that had to do with you? Just it's hard to project where he's going to be in five years. I guess my question is how much has this based on financial How much is it based on potential performance? No, it's it's it's it's a lot of it just has to do with

the future planning of the team. It's not financials that that's not the issue, right Like you you try to project what your team and what your core guys will look like five or six years from now, that's tough. Um. You know, our our focus in our window is the next two to three years and then things can change three to four years from now and you don't know. So from a flexibility standpoint on both both sides, from a player and a team perspective, the five years just

wasn't something that made sense. Are you concerned about his psyche where he is mentally because of this? Obviously he was hoping to get it he didn't, So are you worried James at all about kind of where he's going to be mentally if you talk to him yet about that. I mean, I care about DeAndre. We care about DeAndre just like we do the rest of our guys, and we know, you know, when guy's going to contract years that aren't on rookie deals, like it's it's an emotional time.

It's one of those things where you question and wonder. So like I'm I'm concerned about our guys mental approach and mental state going into a year with increased heightened expectations to win a title, to be a title contender.

So yeah, I care because you know, this is the toughest part of the job when you have to deal with the people that you care about and that you're committed to helping maximize an oppetite, their opportunities and maximized When you're in these situations, you you know, you you you concern yourself with how they feel and how they react. But we're going to be here to support him, and I think knowing DeAndre that he's going to respond Mike,

he would irrespective of the results. He's gonna come out here and he's going to compete, and he's going to try to do whatever he can to help the team win and to be the best version himself. So and whatever it takes from us to do that. Like like I said, we're committed to doing it. So I'm one of the voters for the for the NBA Awards, and I voted Devin Booker second Team All NBA last year, and I just thought that he had a phenomenal season.

And obviously I'm a little bit closer to it because I live here, but I also had many as Coach of the Year, and I was a little disappointed that I looked TIBs did a great job and the next had a great season. It just felt like, for whatever reason, and maybe it's just because the Suns weren't honest national television as much as they're going to be this year, that the love and respect that I thought that they deserve maybe they weren't getting from from some of the

other voters. How did you guys feel about that? Is that something that angered devon or angered money or do you guys say, you know what that it really doesn't matter because there is a financial component to that to being named All NBA for the players, No, it does, It doesn't matter you know our guys are they compete for things above money, um and and so those financial incentives of perks aren't would drive them um and in the to the garner respect from the people that you

work with daily and that know you matters so much more than the casual observer or people that are observing you from afar and so um we just talk about respect for the game. And you know, if if those that are watching our players are coaches, our staff and they can say that those guys sure respect for the game every time they compete, that's all we need, you know,

the accolades, the attention, the recognition. It will come if you win, and if it doesn't doesn't bother us as long as we achieve our goals of being the best version of ourselves. What is the next step for Devin? He had a great season. He's still a young guy. What is he twenty four, twenty five and he's going into year seven. What are the expectations. What do you think is the next step for him? His toughness, man's

really stood out obviously in the playoffs. That to me, above all else was the thing that I've in a lot of NBA people that I've taught to That really caught their eye was they knew he could score. We know he's an excellent shooter, but it was this toughness, you know, after the broken nose and you know, playing through that and getting hit several times in the face after that, just to double down on who he is and just to become better at at what he does.

He doesn't have to change anything. He just needs to improve and become more efficient. So I think you'll continue to continue to see him figure out how to better balance his his stretches of aggressiveness, um, how to facilitate and be more efficient. So UM, I mean the kid, the kid competes and whenever you have a competitor, um, you don't put limits on him. You you just support him.

You played in the NBA for a long time. You were a long time team, a team of Lebron James and I want to get to Braun in a second. But you know what makes Chris Paul tick And it's hard for an outsider like me to really get it. I mean I can talk to Chris and have over the years, whether he was with you guys, or the or the Thunder or Houston or the Clippers or even

going back to New Orleans. You know, we've met with Chris and number of times over the years and you watch what he does in terms of his production, But there is an it factor to him. Why does he make such a difference? What is it specifically about him that you notice that wherever he goes, he impacts others and takes his team to a different level. I mean, because Chris is a mad scientist. I think if you to describe someone that lives by or subscribe to the scientific,

scientific method, that would be Chris's. He's thirsty for knowledge. He's always questioning, you know, he's questioning what we're doing, how we're doing it, while we're doing it, why it works, why it doesn't work, Why would it work in a certain situation. Why wouldn't it work in a certain situation. Why is a guy struggling to have success in a certain play? You know why? You know this is a

bad situation for our group. He just has that that mindset of always trying to improve, and so that's what makes him tick, like he's never satisfied, and when he has success, he's always trying to figure out why and why it will be sustainable or won't that's me personally, having spent time with him when I was at the Players Association and he's the president of the union, watching him balance and manage the NBA game and the union's business.

You just hear him ask why a lot, and because he's so inquisitive, I think he finds answers like answers

to these questions a lot faster than most people. And that's why he's able to have so much success in such a short period of time in different situations, because he is comfortable making people uncomfortable or being uncomfortable, but it's all in pursuit of knowledge and excellence, and so he's he's going to be arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest point guard of all time if he continues to play the way he's playing for the next five to ten years. And that's a testament to

his desire to be great. Do you really think he can go five to ten years? And I was going to ask you about Lebron James too, and how long?

Since you're as close to him as anybody, having won multiple championships with Lebron both in Miami and Cleveland, how long do you think Lebron plays are we entering, as we watched Tom Brady play until his mid forties, are we entering a time in the NBA where he might see guys like Chris Paul and Lebron James play in two their forties Without a doubt, I think that happens, and I think it's because the assumptions that people make

aren't grounded in the current reality. Training methods, the access to treatment, and like things that will in your careers. Not only are they more prevalent, but players than athlete so more than willing to double down and invest in it. And so those two guys spend a tremendous amount of money, personal resources, time and energy to maintain a certain level and improve. And when everyone tells you you need to slow down and you need to manage things, you need

to back off. These guys that continue to find ways to stress themselves in positive ways that build resiliency in their games. And on top of that, the you know, their skill levels, accumulated skill they have, there's such at such a high level they can overcome some of the physical limitation, They can pick their spots and then they can make shots to make plays at absurd levels. So I think those guys are don't play as long as

they want to play. I've always said, like, they're more likely to stop playing because they don't want to play anymore versus not being able to play. Do you have a go to Lebron's story when people ask you, Hey, tell me about Lebron James, tell me a moment that

you'll never forget. Is there one of those? Are they're multiple ones or anything you can share James about a story that you recall from playing with him, where you just it reminded you how different he is and how unique he is as one of the greatest players to ever play. I just go back to the Chase Down

block against Golden State. You know, he's playing forty eight minutes every night, and it's the end of the game in the most critical time, and he's a disadvantaged position and he's head down like a track star, full sprint, not even seeing what's in front of him, but just pushing the line, pushing the limit, and he goes and makes a block that says the season is a pivotal play amongst a bunch of pivotal plays that eventually led

to a championship. And so you know that to me is the all out effort, because if he doesn't make that effort, no one ever says anything. It's just a given. You expect it to have an advantage. No one can him for not trying UM, but it meant that much to him and he had that much left in the tank.

So like to be able to play at that level and to give it up at that level at that time in the game, when you know the odds say you're you're not going to be successful, it just it just shows that the guy's willing to do whatever it taken. It's capable of doing whatever it takes to make the play that ultimately determined U when or not you win

or lose titles. James, You've had quite a meteoric rise in this business, going from being named general manager just a couple of years ago to being the NBA Executive of the Year. Was this something that you had thought about when you were a player. Was this something that after you stopped playing, you said, you know, I think I want to get into personnel and talent evaluation. When did this dream for you start? I mean, it was a fleeting thought while I was playing UM, and it

wasn't you know, my goal coming into the NBA. I just wanted to be able to play at least ten years and uh, you know, accomplished a dream that I had as a kid to play professional basketball. And you know,

that would have been the ride for me. But as I continued to play and played for different teams and you know, playing for the Miami Heat with pat Riley, you know, and seeing Patted an ex player and ex coach and executive, I saw the joy that had brought him to continue to be a part of the game and a different capacity, and you know, it sparked something in me that was like, if I had an opportunity to do it, I would seriously consider it because I didn't want to coach and didn't want to go into

the front office to start. But then when you realize this the nature of it and how you can continue to be a team member for life, it's something that if you loved the game, that you're drawn to. So coming year was was an opportunity that was extended to

me by Robert. I was afforded a great opportunity and whether or not I have deserved it or not, Like I didn't have any front office experience, so he took a shot on me, a chance on me, and you know, immediately, I knew that this was something that I can get into and that i'd be you know, that I'd give it all up for. And I was able to surround myself or you know, produce a team or build a team with some exceptional winners and leaders and some players

that really care about winning. And I've been a beneficiary of that. I've been able to like sit and support and watch these guys reach crazy heights, and that's cool for me. So I just come I approached every day just knowing that someone paid the way as a basketball player for me, someone paid the way as an executive for me, and I just want to do my part and live up to it. Two more questions, James, We'll

get you out of here. I had Steve Kim, the Cardinal general manager, on last week and asked him this question. So for fans that maybe don't know what it's like to be an NBA general manager, what is a typical day for you? You like in season, how much are you on the phone, how much are you looking at tape? How much are you talking to other gms and agents? What's a typical day in the Life of James Jones. Um, it's all those things, you know. It's it's you know,

a typical day. You wake up, I dropped my kids off to school. I'm in the facility a by eight o'clock. And then from there it's we're getting ready for games. Um, we're tracking who our opponents are playing, We're tracking personnel, we're talking, tracking our individual improvement plans, doing recaps from previous games. Um, you have shoot around from there, Um, we have games at night, and so you're watching how our guys are responding to defeat or success. Um, you're

looking at rotations, talking to coach talking. I mean, it's just a little bit of everything. Um, it's a team effort, but it's a whirlwind. And then at the end of the day, you know, Um, you're up at eight, you go to bed at eleven, You wake up in the morning to you know, fifty sixty emails and thirty text messages. You clear through those. You can do it all over again, and you're kind enough to spend thirty minutes on the podcast,

which I appreciate. Last one for the Suns to win the NBA Championship, James, what has to happen this year. We have to be one of the healthiest teams. I truly believe if we're healthy, if we if our guys are available, I don't think there's anyone better. Love it. Hey, man, I really appreciate the time. I look forward to being

on site to call some Suns games this year. And I know I'm supposed to be unbiased, but living here in the valley and you know, being around the team for twenty years, I'm rooting for you guys to have great success. So really appreciate the time. James, thanks, man,

I appreciate it. So they're having from James Jones on why the Suns did not give DeAndre Ayton the five year max, also what he expects from Devin Booker this year and Chris Paul and he's pretty confident that if the Suns are a healthy team, there's nobody better in the NBA. And you know what, he might be right,

James the reigning NBA Executive of the Year. So the Cardinals had the Texans this week Arizona, as you know, six and oh, the only remaining undefeated team and unbeaten through six games for the first time since nineteen seventy four. The thing that has stood out to me the most, not just last week against Cleveland, but overall is the growth, maturity and leadership of Kyler Murray. As Steve Kim said on this podcast last week pre snap, Kyler Murray is

seeing things differently. He's beating teams with his brain, he is handling the pocket differently than he did last year, and we're seeing his leadership show up in different ways here in twenty twenty one. The touchdown pass to Christian Kirk showing that incredible athletic ability where he's running forward.

The deefs to respect that he might run and certainly capable of taking it into the end zone for a touchdown, but instead, with a flick of the wrist, he throws a dart to Christian Kirk and puts it on the money as Kirk is going out of bounce. Kyler right now is playing better than anybody in the NFL. The

Cardinals are playing better than anybody in the NFL. If they can win this game get to seven and zero going into a Thursday night home game against the Green Bay Packers, that will be the game that's talked about more than any other in the NFL next week. First things first, taking care of business, and that's what championship teams do. They take care of business against teams they

should beat. The Texans have a lot of injuries. They have a lot of problems with their team to Shaun Watson's obviously not playing for other reasons, the Texans are not a good football team. The Cardinals are favored by seventeen. The Cardinals should win this game. To be a title contender, you have to do what you're supposed to do, and that's win this game and handily and move on to Thursday against Green Bay. Thanks so much for listening to

the Dave Pash Podcast. Again, our thanks to Phoenix Suns general manager James Jones. We'll talk to you soon.