Welcome to the Dating Stories podcast. I'm Bea and I'm Jo. Together we have a lot of dating experience. And we're not alone. So it's time to start sharing. In each episode, we invite real daters to tell us about their creepy, juicy, embarrassing, or simply epic true dating stories. Whether you're single, ready to mingle, or it's complete. Hello, everyone. This is...
the dating stories again. And I'm happy to be here today for a couple of reasons. One of the reasons is that this is the first time I'm recording an episode with a guy. Yay! So... Gerald, happy to see you. Can you tell us a bit more about yourself? Yes, absolutely. I'm happy to be here. So my name is Gerald. I'm living in Canada. And we met... back in the summer of 2017. I believe it was in Croatia. True. So 2017, a couple of years ago. Yeah, before...
There was a lockdown and traveling was like nothing. Well, we crossed paths and we texted a fair bit, but we never saw each other's faces. And that's it, right? So I'll have to... Explain the story maybe a little bit. Let me introduce the story because it is a special story. That's the second reason why this is a special episode. So yeah, Gerald, how did we meet? I was in Croatia on holiday. You were too.
And well, we met each other on a dating app and the app was called Happen, right? Yes. Yeah. And the thing is actually that I think.
it could be wrong but i think i was just back from that holiday in brussels and in brussels i opened the app i connected to the app and that's when i saw you on the app pictures of you doing a triathlon and as i did try it on a couple of years before um i was interested so i started swiping and that's how we connected and that's when i also realized that my phone hadn't synchronized yet so it was still on my location
in Croatia because that's the thing about Happn app you can connect with people on the app if you've crossed each other like on the street or something that's the only way that you can match with someone you have to be have to yeah been at the same place and that's when i noticed like oh but actually this guy is not living in brussels or he's not here is actually in croatia we were apparently at the same location in croatia without knowing of course
yeah it's very funny so i started texting you and that's when i figured out like okay so he was on holiday in croatia i was two so that's how i remember it you remember the same story uh i mean From my memory, it was just that we were chatting and then, okay, where are you at? Oh, I'm in Brussels. Oh, I'm in Croatia. Okay. I was just there.
You were back in Croatia then, yeah. And that's so funny because I kept chatting, but okay, it's a bit more difficult to meet you knowing that you were or in Croatia or in Canada, right? And at a certain point, you did tell me that you were thinking of moving to Europe. I think for work or because you wanted to? Yes, I really wanted to move to Paris. And I spoke to you about that. And because you're in HR, I was asking about from an HR perspective, what would you think about?
hiring someone with a Canadian CV and yeah so we stayed in touch over the years not chatting that frequently but every now and then and discussing you know if I was going to come to Europe on a trip Maybe you would cross paths with one of the trips that you do. But I haven't been back to Europe since then. That's it. We never met. And that's so funny. This is the very first time that I see your face.
Yes. Yeah, we spoke on the phone a few times, but yeah, we see each other's faces, even though you, the listeners, don't get to see us. No, that's true indeed. So it's just between us. But Gerard, it's nice to see you. Likewise. It's nice to see your face. And you look...
like i thought you would look like basically because of course i saw your pictures and all and i know i had you on the phone but uh but it's still different to see to see you and yeah and it's a it's a strange story right it's a special story Indeed. So it's really fun to have you on our podcast because, of course, we started chatting. Of course, my life in the meantime has changed. I've got a wonderful boyfriend and so on. But we kept in touch. And then you...
started telling me about a few things you've been through in love, in life. So I thought like, Gerald. Can you please explain your story to our listeners? Because this is just a crazy story. And I'm very happy that you said yes. For two reasons. Because I got to see you now, finally. And secondly, because I think there is a...
A lot of things in your story that I think people will be able to relate to. And also you've learned a lot. I have the impression from what you've been through. So thank you for being here, Gerald. And thank you for being willing to share your story with us. My pleasure. You still okay? Yeah. Okay, cool. And yeah, I know that you've been single for quite a long time and you are single now too, I think. Yes. Well, my first question to you before we dive into the big story.
would be like yeah looking back on your single years there's probably a few dating stories that have been a little bit remarkable or weird or maybe funny are there maybe a few you could share with us so that we can also see that like okay This is not only happening to women who are dating. Well, I have a very close friend who lives in Europe. He's one of my best friends. He often tells me I have a lot of funny stories. And I said, these are just stories that could happen to anyone.
He says, yes, they could happen to anyone, but for some reason, they happen to you. Yeah, so there's a lot of different funny stories. And as I was listening to your podcast, I thought, oh. What could be some interesting stories to share? And starting with, let's say, my worst date, which kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, was when I showed up to the girl's house to pick her up.
I could hear screaming inside. It sounded like a domestic dispute. And she walked out and slammed the door. And then she gets in my car as though nothing had happened. And then I was like, okay, so let's go. I'm like, yeah. And I said, is everything okay? She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. So we went to the bar and then I noticed very quickly that she kept scratching herself and looking around the place and I realized she was high.
like extremely high and when we went to the bar she knew all the bartenders the bouncers and they were all asking her if she was going to behave herself and So I was like, okay, that's a good sign. And so, yeah, she asked me if I wanted a drink. And I said, no, I'm just going to have water. And she bought me one anyway. And I took one sip.
after about five minutes i said okay i'm gonna leave she's like oh you haven't finished your drink and i said no that was your second one so enjoy and that was that so that was As you can see, it's not that terrible. I've heard other dating stories which were a lot more frightening, shall we say. But it's a strange, it's a weird one to look. Weird dates happen to guys too. They do.
They do. But like I've said, I have a lot of lady friends who tell me their dating stories and my sisters as well. And they always seem to be crazier than mine. Do they seem to be crazier than yours? Is that what you're saying? Yes. Okay. And do you believe that? Yes, I do. Because women tend to, I think, be more reserved.
conservative and polite and respectful the first time they meet someone, whereas men tend to just go all out there. And why do you think that is? I guess the man is probably wanting to show off a bit more or... The desire to be a peacock and impress may come across differently perceived from the woman's perspective than from what's going on in his head. Yeah.
Maybe if I can recognize myself in it, I think I had crazy stuff too on a first date. But at the same time, I think what... withholds me maybe a little bit or the reason why i would definitely always at the first date inform my friends about it just because you're in the end indeed a woman which means maybe always a little bit more yeah you can't start a fight or you won't win a fight for example if you think in bad terms
I think it's just basically that, right? Why I was a bit more careful in general on a first date. What do you think? So do you bring your taser with you typically when you meet someone for the first time? Or pepper spray? I don't, but that's maybe also because I do live just in Brussels, right? Which is in the end like a village. I shouldn't say that. Brussels is cool. But yeah, so I think that's it. Let's listen to the rest of your story.
Are you okay to kick it off? For sure. To tell us a little bit more why you decided to talk about this story and what happened, just basically what happened to you and what you learned from it. Okay, so I'll tell the story chronologically, and then you can ask me any questions that you might have along the way. Great. So, many years ago, Gerald met Jamie. on a dating app. I was actually in a different city for work. And I guess leading up to probably two or three weeks before I came back,
I was trying to line up some dates for when I got back. So Jamie was one of the girls I was talking to, and her profile didn't have too much on it, so I didn't really know. know what to make of it but i had a feeling that i wanted to meet her and and just a question but is it like a really long time ago so we're talking 2013 so eight years ago okay
Quite a while. Yeah, she gave me her number. I texted her when I got back and she didn't respond. So I messaged her back on the app and I said, I don't know if you gave me the right number, but anyway. So she says, oh, it was the wrong number. So she gave me the right number. And this was the following day. And it was early in the morning, like 7 o'clock or something. So she says, I'm free now if you want to go for a walk or something.
so okay sure so we we met pretty early and we went for a walk and the moment i saw her as soon as she took off her sunglasses i was like taken aback you know i was quite impressed as i got to know her a little better during the walk i i decided uh that i liked her and that i didn't need to keep looking i mean the the other girls that i had
lined up to meet i decided i didn't need to meet them anymore so i told them and so if you said like you had dates lined up what was your intention my intention was to meet them all and see how it went to have fun well i mean my approach to dating is is i i start i have very few expectations so because some i meet someone on an app
and I agreed to meet with them. There's no expectation that anything further is going to happen. So for me, the only thing I expect is that I'm going to have an engaging conversation at the least. And often it ends there. We have a good chat and that's it. Because I like meeting people and I like engaging with them, learning about them. But there's always the hope that maybe there'll be more to it. So you meet someone interesting and then...
You feel some chemistry, connection, and then you want to go further. Yeah, looking for a good time and looking for some connection, as you were saying. Are you someone that's also, in general, living in the moment? Yes. I think a lot about the future, but I base a lot of my decisions, especially my dating decisions, on a day-to-day basis. I will not date someone because I don't see a future with them.
If I am feeling it and I'm having a good time, I'll go with it. A lot of the dating experiences I've had over the year, even the short-term ones, I believe added value to my life. If I said no to all of that because I'm waiting for the one, I'd probably be very discouraged and depressed because I feel bad for those people who, like...
They're all about happily ever after. And anything in between is a waste of time. And actually, just recently, I rematched with a girl that I had matched with six or seven years ago. We never met because she felt that I was not serious enough. And so I was talking to her a couple of months ago and I said, so in the last six, seven years, how was your dating experience? Did you meet?
Did you have meaningful, serious relationships? And she said, no, I was single the entire time. And I'm now getting very discouraged because, you know, I'm getting older, et cetera, et cetera. And I said, well, you need to change something. Like she blames it on, you know, all the good guys are taken. They're in relationships, blah, blah, blah. She projects the problem as being the environment, the reality. And I'm like, well.
you could have been having fun and maybe maybe that would have led you to the right person but um if you've been trying for that many years there's something that you got to change you know yes it's very true and i think you're You're right. And we were talking about it with Danielle last episode also. She was talking about her dating life when she was in her 20s. But she also had this feeling of having to date the leftovers, as you were saying.
And that in the meantime, quite a long time ago. And that when she was in her 20s. So I think indeed you're absolutely right. And I think it's been something that's been coming back in our podcast. Please also consider how you are. approaching dating life yourself and how you are in life yourself instead of just only considering that what is happening to you is because of the people you meet basically
But okay, so it's a very interesting discussion, I think. But let's go back to the story. Sorry, I interrupted you, basically. Where were we? Oh, you're welcome. So yeah, I was saying that I... told the other girls that I was intending to meet that I would not meet them. Sometimes you say, I want to give this a try. And so that was a moment where I wanted to see where it went.
So we went on a few dates here and there, and every time I saw her, I had a good feeling. I felt that I was kind of a better version of myself, and so I wanted to keep seeing her. She showed a lot of interest, and so I thought she was kind of on the same page. And then after about three or four dates, she just disappeared, stopped responding. So, yeah, she, as we say in dating terminology, ghosted me. And I was still fairly new to online dating at that time.
That kind of ghosting experience wasn't so familiar to me. Today, it's like nothing, but it was more puzzling to me as kind of, what do I do? Is she playing a game? Am I supposed to? chase does she want me to chase is she not interested like what so i was just confused as to how to you know what she wanted and essentially
True. This is typically what happens if you're ghosted. Of course, you don't know anything. It's terrible. Yeah. So I guess after about a month, she messaged me back. Interesting. But it was like, hey, do you want to meet today or tomorrow? Just random out of the blue like that. So I met her and I told her I didn't appreciate the lack of response for so long.
And did you hesitate to meet her again? No, no, no. One of the reasons I wanted to meet her is to get an explanation of what happened. Yeah. How did you react to the fact that you said that you didn't like her ghosting you? Oh, she apologized and she said she had a lot going on and how she didn't mean to do it. There wasn't really much of a satisfactory explanation. And so...
Yeah, we saw each other another couple times and I think it was twice and the second time I felt like we we got fairly close during the day and Then at the end of the night I was about to leave Yeah. And right before I was leaving, she stopped me and says, Gerald, just before you leave, I want to I want you to know that I do really like you and I'm sorry I ghosted you. And I promise.
I will not do it again. And I hope you'll give me another chance. Nice. Okay. Good points. And so I said, okay, well, I guess we'll see. Good answer. And so I went home. And we texted each other goodnight. And then I never heard from her again. Seriously? Really? Yeah. So, I don't know, I texted her, I don't know, the next day or a couple days later. No response. Yeah. Texted her again.
I tried calling at some point. That's terrible. Okay, so then you know enough, right, Gerald? That's it, right? Well, I didn't. I mean, that blew me away. what kind of person will go out of your way to tell you that a they're interested b they won't do it again they promise they won't do it again and then and then
So, and this is like 24 hours after the fact. It's not, you know, a month later, you change your mind. It's like literally the last time you see them. So yes, it was a very, very confusing time.
like it sounds when you tell it that she really said it in a serious way so it's not like she was a little bit drunk or no no no and i it felt genuine okay it's not a question of rejection if somebody tells me you're not interested that's it but yeah yeah when you give the mix signals like that it kind of throws you off this to be like well what do i do now do i just wait for you to message me back and and so it was it was just really bothering me so
I wrote an email explaining how I felt and, you know, whatever it is that's happening in her life, she can simply be honest or give something to let the other person know where you're at. Okay, so you sent an email. You had her email address. Yeah, and so I sent the email thinking that that would give me the closure I needed, and I said what I had to say, and that was done. But a month later...
After I sent the email, still no response or anything. And I just couldn't shake it. I'm like, this is not acceptable. Someone cannot say things like that and then just disappear off the face of the earth. So this is where the story starts to get crazy on my part. And all your audience is going to think that I'm just one of those crazy dudes. And that's why you got to.
Bring your taser and your pepper spray with you everywhere. So. What did you do? What did I do? I waited outside her. I went to her house. around the time that I figured she would finish work. And I waited there thinking that eventually she'll come out and I'll talk to her. Oh no, a stalker. So I stalked her, yes. I was in university at the time and I told my roommate.
that I was going to do it. And he's like, I'm not going to pick you up from the police station. Just so you know, you're on your own. This is funny. I think it's funny. I don't know what you did. It starts funny. Well, I knew it was a crazy idea, but I just couldn't say, like, I just had to get an answer. And it wasn't about, I wasn't going to get her back or anything. I just needed an answer. Sounds a bit stubborn, like, hey.
Yes, I can be stubborn in life sometimes. So I went, I brought my textbooks from university and I sat outside reading them. What else is there to do? Exactly. So then I'm sitting there reading, and obviously I can't concentrate very much. And then it starts raining. So I start putting my books away, and I thought, I'm probably just going to go home.
a miserably failed attempt at doing something that was already a crazy idea. So I turned around to put my books in my bag, and then I heard the door close, and so I turned around. And I saw that she had just come out. And she was walking the other way. So I called out to her. And she turned around. She didn't even seem that super. She was like, oh, what are you doing here?
You know, all casually, like nothing had happened. I said, well, I came for a chat. So then we went for a walk for about, I don't know, two, three hours. Wow. It was raining. And so, well, not heavily, but enough that we both got wet. Yeah. Two, three hours in the rain. Yeah. And so she told me, she gave me her explanation.
She had met another guy, and she didn't think it would last with that guy, but she thought she would give it a try. So she said in her head she thought she would date this guy for a while, and then... when the short-term fling kind of ended, she would text me back. Okay. And so does it mean that she was dating the guy already when you met? No. Okay. So she met the guy just quite quickly after. No, no. She had known him before.
They worked together. So, yeah, she didn't think it would last. And in her mind, she would message me afterwards. And I said, well, you know, you could have just given me a heads up. Of course. I mean, what's so difficult about sending a text message, right? I mean, if this is the full story, didn't you ask her that? Like, okay, fair enough, but just let me know at someone else. So see you next time. Well, I guess because she didn't think it would last.
longer she thought it would be easier to not say anything and then just justify it after the fact as opposed to saying hey i'm seeing someone and then a month later oh now i'm not yeah okay it would give her the possibility to go back to you i guess so and i i guess she didn't really think that it was as big a deal to me as it was yeah i mean she knew i was a free spirit and kind of happy-go-lucky and
And I guess she thought I would just move on. She didn't see the stubbornness yet. Yes. And so then when she started to get my messages and then she, like when I sent the email. And she felt bad. So then she felt that she needed to respond. But then she was thinking of what to say. And then more time was going by. And then she was still seeing this other guy.
Apparently there was a lot going on and she just didn't know what to do. She also admitted that she's quite selfish. And so I said, okay, so that's that. You've been confused about how to manage the whole situation. Instead of taking ownership of your actions and... Dealing with it in a mature way. Dealing with it, you just kind of like, I may ignore this until I'm ready to deal with it. And so that was that. Which probably in the end is...
I mean, that's most of the time what happens or the reason why people ghost, right? It's the easier option. Yeah. Even though sending a text message might be very easy, but still it is the easier option, right? Yeah. But I mean... There's a difference between ghosting where it's mutual ghosting. Let's say someone sends you a message and you don't respond. Then the person typically gets the idea.
especially now that it's such a common thing. And then no one says anything. Or sometimes the message will just end. And you could message the next day, but no one does. And then you both kind of go see each other. but if one person keeps messaging the other you can say well the person should get the hint and stop messaging but then the other person should also just i guess put them out of their misery and say hey
I'm not interested, stop messaging me, etc. Absolutely. Or as you said also, if someone looks you in the eyes and says like, I really like you, I'm never going to ghost again. Well, yeah, that's a whole other ballgame there. I know a girl who came to me and said, I've been texting this guy and he's not responding to me. So can you help me come up with something to say to him that will get him?
to respond. So that immediately raises a red flag for me. I'm like, okay. I said, what do you mean he's not texting you back? And she says, well, I texted him 52 times and he hasn't responded. And I said, there's nothing I can do to make that man respond. And you don't want him to respond. You just need to delete his number and forget about it.
And so in that situation, it's very obvious that you don't need to read between the lines. It's simply... But my scenario, I told it to all my friends and it wasn't clear to them either. So it was very puzzling for everyone involved. Yeah, so anyway, after the conversation, we parted ways. And I was happy. I got my explanation. She seemed to be happy. She was...
seeing someone and I just was going to wish her well and that was it. It sounds a bit like a painful explanation though. I mean, in the end, if you're going... that far to get an answer it might also mean that you're just basically not only stubborn but also just interested in her and if you then get to hear that it's yeah she actually met another guy
well there was it was a combination one i was interested and two there was the first time that someone did something like that i had a similar experience a few years later and I'm like, I'm not going down that rabbit hole again. You didn't go and read books in front of her house in the rain? Yes, no. That Gerald does no longer exist. So I didn't see her for...
Six years. Okay. And then one day I'm at work and I get an email and she says, I was with my girlfriends the other night. They suggested that I go on this dating app, Hinge. have you heard of it wink wink and then she says uh after i made my profile the first face i saw was yours i wasn't sure if you were even still in town i Still feel bad about what happened and I owe you an apology and I hope you don't hate me. So, yeah, so maybe we could chat. Okay. The ego in me, my ego was like...
I can't let her get away with it that easily. But then putting my ego aside, I asked myself, am I interested at all in going to meet her? Am I curious? Like, what? So I thought... Why not? I'm always curious to know what someone has to say. At the end of the day, I can say yes or no. And what's a conversation? Like, let's say I go and meet her for an hour. What's the worst thing that can happen?
I waste an hour of my time, but I satisfy a little bit of curiosity to know what's going on in that strange mind of hers. She could decide not to show up or yeah, whatever. Yeah, but you know what? I had dated a lot. since then and so i learned a lot and i had processed it and i didn't feel that i was vulnerable to that again so i agreed to meet her i said uh so i'm like okay let's do it
And so then she explained what happened in the last six years. I explained what happened with mine. So basically what happened, she was just in a... Yeah, so she was in a relationship the whole time. Oh, the whole time, okay. That same guy. that she was okay yeah yeah yeah okay she had been dating him okay so it did work out with him well for six years yeah she was just newly single when she texted you when she went on that app yeah
Probably just over a month when she first met me. Yeah, rather fresh out of a relationship. Yeah, so I told myself that when I went to see her, I said, okay, it's a one-off thing. Like I'll see her once and then... maybe i'll never see her again but then she's like oh well you have my number if you want to do something give me a call and i'm like hell no okay i'm happy you're saying this i was a bit in doubt now okay hell no cool
And she got it. She understood that that's how it had to be. And she did. She messaged me. I mean, she was also in a time in her life where she didn't have the other distractions. when i had first met her she had been single for a while and so she was used to being single doing her own thing and then this time she was used to being in a relationship and so it was it was more about talking to one person
And so, yeah, we were texting and we hung out a couple of times. And what I had told myself is every time I see her, it could be the last. At the same time, I had nothing to lose. And also... After having processed it, I felt that I was kind of immune to ghosting. That if she ghosted me again, it would not affect me. Because in my mind, it was like, I'm not contacting this person. If she contacts me, I'll respond. If not...
I move on. And I was actually quite happily single at the time. Okay. So what happened then? And so it accelerated very quickly to the point that by the time we first got intimate... Then we were seeing each other almost every day. Okay. We started dating. Yeah. And it was a great relationship for me. It was kind of the perfect relationship, especially in the beginning.
because we both had our freedom she she was still like she told me it's this summer i just got out of a relationship i want to be single and i'm like that is perfectly fine with me i'm very happy to be single
Does this mean that she says, I actually want to enjoy the fact that I'm just single now, but you were still seeing each other quite regularly? Yeah, I mean, yeah, we were. And she was enjoying... getting back with her friends and doing all these activities and and like she's very active in the summer so she didn't want pressure of i guess needing to be with someone
And so what she enjoyed is that there was none of that coming from me. But then at the same time, because none of that was coming from me,
As time went on, she also got concerned that she would lose me, that I would just keep doing my thing and seeing other people and bouncing around. She said that's what she expected. When she first saw me, we would see each other and then I would move on to another girl, etc. So, very, I guess, early on, I decided I would be exclusive, even though I didn't tell her, because I told her the decision to be exclusive is not a contract, it's personal.
So I think everyone in my friend's circle knew that I was exclusive before she did. And then one day when I told her, she's like, how is it that you feel that you don't need to tell me? And I said, well... Like I said, it's a personal decision to me. And you said that you wanted to be single and all that. So I didn't want you to feel the pressure that you had to be exclusive just because I was. But it helps to talk about these things, no?
Just to make a relationship more mature. You're together in a couple, you're two. You're a team. So in a team, you talk to each other. Yeah, but we weren't there yet. We were still in the early dating phase. We were not a couple at that time. But yes, it went very quickly to the point that we were seeing each other almost every day. And yeah, it was kind of something I had never experienced. There's never been a time in my life where I saw someone every single day. At the same time...
I thought it probably was moving too fast for my comfort zone. But because I'm a live in the moment kind of person, I was like, well, I'm not really afraid of what consequences may ensue. Like she had agreed that it was just, you know, be in the moment and go with the flow kind of thing at first. And so that was kind of our arrangement in the beginning. And going with the flow was a very intense flow.
shall we say, for the first few months. And so go with the flow. Do you mean, was that what she said after you said that you actually decided on your own and to be exclusive? Before and after, I think. Okay, so when you said, okay, look, personally, I'm going to be exclusive. She was like, not ready yet. Well, she had told me before that she doesn't do the non-exclusive thing.
So if she's seeing someone, she's only seeing that person. Okay. So she had told me from the get-go. I'm not seeing anybody else. So she was exclusive from day one. Yeah. And I mean, usually I tend to be like if someone comes and demands exclusivity from the get go, I tend to get scared in a way and back off. Like it's too much pressure for me.
But I think because we had a history, the chances were that she would just ghost me anyway. I thought, well, it's less of a situation where I would. Yeah, it's not that, you know, I'm trying to lock you up. kind of thing and what did to go go with the flow mean for her then if she's exclusive she was so exclusive well um she was still going out and being social and meeting people and so so going with the flow is just
Let's not call this... We're not in a couple. We're not in a relationship. We're just having fun, seeing how it goes. She never thought that the relationship would last. Oh, is that so? But yeah, in so far as that, like I felt that I was kind of a rebound and I was happy to be the rebound. And it was kind of good for both of us. And so in so far as one of us doesn't want it anymore.
then we'll just call it off. That's how you felt in those first couple of months, you mean? Yeah. Okay. That was the go with the flow understanding. Okay. And so how did it move forward as of that stage? Well, we're talking now three months. after you started talking again yeah so it progressed and then once she started to develop feelings for me she also started to get scared of losing me and
As soon as she felt that, she kind of talked to me. I'm not sure I want to continue with this because I can feel myself getting attached. And I feel that I very well could just get hurt. Yeah. Okay. And so we talked about it. And at the end of the day, we agreed that we were just going to try and be respectful to the other and let the other person know where we're at and continue to have fun.
And it wasn't just about the intimacy. Like when we were hanging out and doing activities, we really did have a lot of fun. Yeah. So it's like, why should we stop all that because of what could go wrong? I mean, that was my mindset. You know, I wasn't afraid of emotional pain. Your thing was more afraid of having to commit? At the time, I still wasn't afraid of having to commit because I didn't feel the pressure to commit either. Okay.
In my mind, every day when I thought about it, like the idea that I'm seeing the person that ghosted me six years earlier, it made me laugh every time. Yeah, it is a funny story indeed. But yeah, so it progressed and then the problems started to come out. There was often arguments. In my mind, they were drama and arguments. In her mind, they were conversations. Okay.
So this I later learned is based on our different attachment styles and the glasses that we view relationships through. I've learned that the ones we have are the most incompatible. Okay. And yours is how? Mine is dismissive avoidant. Dismissive avoidant. Yeah, so you have fearful avoidant, dismissive avoidant, anxious, preoccupied, and secure. I did a little quiz. I think I sent it to you as well. I'm like what they refer to as a clam.
Where if you try and get my feelings or emotions out of me, I just clam shut and you get nothing. Whereas if you let me be free and give me the space I need, etc., then I just open by myself naturally. I hope I'm not challenging too much asking you to tell your full story on a podcast. No, this is part of it, putting me outside my comfort zone. So what she needed was reassurance.
and what i needed was space she needs more closeness to feel that i'm not going anywhere i need to feel that i'm not stuck I mean, strangely, I always looked down on people who were what we call whipped in air quotes. I remember when I was single and I asked my friends in a relationship, hey, let's go on a trip. Oh, I got to ask my girlfriend.
and i was like is she your mother like why why do you have to ask her i mean i know now it's a relationship and that's what you do you do even a healthy one you're gonna you're going to not necessarily ask but talk about it that's it right i'm gonna ask for permission is something else then i'm gonna talk about it because you're part of a team yeah and so um it was the first time in my life that i actually started to consider
that I would give up certain things about what I wanted to do in order to make her happy. Because I have a lot of women friends that made her uncomfortable. I also would social dance. So Latin dancing and... So I was constantly around a lot of women. And I remained friends with most of my exes. She remained friends with none of hers. And so she never understood why I needed or wanted that.
to keep them in my life yeah so all those things made her very uncomfortable and so i started to you know am i able to live this life where i can dedicate my energy to other things than what i currently do A big part of my energy is dedicated to my social life. As the wise people since the history of time have said, what gives meaning to your life is often your relationships.
that's the way you are and that's clearly what gives you energy what makes you happy but it sounds like you started to see that it made her unhappy or insecure and that you also were trying to see like how can i how can i solve this how can i maybe then also give up on it a bit in order to save the relationship? Yeah, so I started to consider what am I, and I remember the first time we had this conversation, we had it in the morning.
or the night before or whatever. Anyway, I went to work and I was thinking about it all day. So when I came back, I said, okay, let's get something clear. If you are giving me an ultimatum where you say either you stop talking to your exes or it's over, then it's over. Because if we can't get past that, then we're not going to get very far. So she did ask you that question? No, no, no. She told me that's not what I'm asking. Okay.
And that's what I was trying to explain before about the attachment styles is it wasn't necessarily about what specifically she wanted me to do. It's how she wanted me to make her feel. Because I started to do these things. I stopped dancing, for instance, which I never thought I would do for a woman. I saw my women friends a lot less. I still kept talking to my exes, but on a much less frequent basis.
And they understood. I mean, they're in relationships now too. But it felt that the more I cut out of my life, it was like playing whack-a-mole. I fix one problem, another one pops up. And I don't want to... paint a picture of a crazy woman or everything. This is just how I felt. It's my story. She will have very different stories to tell. So I felt that the more I gave, the more she tried to take.
To the point that I thought, okay, because I'm going to dedicate a lot of time to this to try and fix this problem. And when we get a bit more stable, then I'll go and ask for the space that I need, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds a bit like you started to be the person you didn't want to be. Yeah, so I knew that it was not sustainable in the long term. Okay. But it was because I had never been in a serious relationship and I always struggled with the question of...
whether I am capable or want to be. That was part of the journey. I was asking myself, is this what it means to be in a relationship? I have to give up this, I have to give up that, and then I'm just stuck with my partner. Now, we still were having a lot of fun. And I thought, will my life be good enough if this is my only source of like a proper relationships where I feel?
And so it took me a lot of time to work through these things and to experience it and discuss it. And also my thoughts were kind of clouded insofar as we were living together at the end. And it wasn't until after we broke up that I went back to my place and I, yeah, I was able to put it into perspective and see myself in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so you broke up. So what happened then? So what was the turning point?
Because what I hear is a lot of fun. It's a really good moment. But at the same time, problems kept on growing. So there must have been a moment. Why did you guys break up?
so we had a number of conversations because these problems came up fairly early and in the beginning we agreed that as long as the good times outweigh the bad times we're going to keep going and on the last day the day we broke up we repeated that again and so far as the bad times outweigh the good times it's time to pull the plug so we did Was it like a conscious decision after a conversation? No, it was a very emotional discussion that ended kind of explosively.
Yeah, so I thought about it recently and I couldn't actually think of what specifically it was that caused the argument. Okay, the final argument you mean here. Yeah, all I know is we were talking on the phone. We were arguing about something. And then I said, can we have this conversation in person?
So we went and met, and then we continued our argument, and then our argument moved into all kinds of other topics. Yeah. That was essentially it. She didn't think that the relationship was a high priority. Okay.
She was always looking for ways to prove it. And she was always bringing up evidence to demonstrate that it wasn't important and that it wasn't going to work. So I remember on that last day... when we had the argument she raised a whole bunch of points and at that moment i felt so overwhelmed about how i tried to solve every problem as it was coming along it was kind of like trying to
patch all these little holes in a sinking boat okay and then a big tidal wave comes and then i just okay i give up yeah i i can't do this anymore so On the one hand, I was very sad. And on the other hand, I was relieved. Probably. It was like, okay, the war is over. I can go home now. And I don't need to fight anymore. And how long had you been together? 11 months. Okay, well, yeah. Intensive months. Very intensive months. So after that day, I went home and I started to write a letter to her.
Not sure if I was going to send it. It was more to get my thoughts and feelings out, you know. So I kept writing every day for about three weeks. Three weeks of writing. So you had a lot on your mind, clearly. I had a lot on my mind. So right before she started messaging me, and I felt that the way she was painting the picture was once again untrue. So it upset me. And I'm like, okay, you're sharing how you feel.
here's how i feel and so i just sent the letter okay the whole thing um now instead of focusing on the bad I was trying to highlight, there was a lot of good in this. Let's focus on that. But the message was, it's over. Well, it was already over. In her mind too?
Well, I think she did expect me to come back, but, you know, Gerald from six years ago is not here anymore. Have you ever considered that this might have been an ultimate try of hers to get that confirmation from you that she didn't feel that she was getting? You mean the breakup? Yeah. Yes, I did consider that. And I went to see a psychologist right after to get some advice. What should I do?
And she thought that it had potential and I should bring her in and we should work through the problems. And I said, I cannot handle months of working through this drama. Like it's too taxing. It's stressing me out. It's stressing her out. It's very unhealthy for both of us. But in my mind, when I sent the letter, I still thought, I have a lot of stuff I need to learn. She also does.
maybe some months apart or even a year or more, we will learn what we have to learn. And then maybe we could come back together and try it again when our distance has passed and we've become more healthy individuals. Well, two things indeed. First of all, yeah. You guys, it sounds like that might happen even. Yeah, I think so. I think so, absolutely. And then secondly, I think you guys both had a lot to learn, right? I mean, never having been in a serious relationship.
That means that for all those years, you haven't learned being in a serious relationship. But that's it. I have the impression that you both had to learn a lot and that maybe indeed you take the time and if you have other experiences. you might just get better at it, basically. Well, I think I definitely will do a lot better job next time around. Why do you think that? Well, because of what I learned having been through it and what I learned doing my research for the last...
What do you mean with research? So pretty much right after it ended, I started reading all kinds of books about relationships and love, etc. And I went to see two psychologists, both a man and a woman to get the two perspectives. And then I listened to podcasts and I would interview my friends and all kinds of people.
And yes, I learned about a lot of different things and the attachment styles being to me one of the most important ones. I think the awareness of your attachment style can potentially break or save a relationship.
So that's your big lesson learned from that year of reading, listening, talking. Well, there were many, many things, like the five different love languages. I'm not really a words person. Like, I'm not going to... express the way i feel through words so instead of trying to like sitting around thinking about the difference between loving someone and being in love with them or what what does that actually mean to love someone you know
But I figured that out. And now I know what it means for me. And it means something completely different for Jamie, because the way she talks about it is not the way I see it. So that was something I had to go and figure out. Yeah. Did you love her? I did. Yeah. I never told her. I never told her verbally, but in the last final... No, not the last email. It was one of the follow-up emails. Wow. Impressive story, Gerald. I hardly dare to ask the question, but I'll try anyway. What's your...
Two questions. What's your biggest lesson you've learned from this or how did this impact you? Well. Before that relationship, I was struggling with the question whether it's possible to be in a relationship, like I said. So that experience allowed me to see that it is possible. I'm more open to the idea of a long-term relationship. And what I learned from it is when you're meeting someone, there are certain ways you can get to know them that can kind of fast track getting to know them.
Like deep conversations is one thing. I thought that we were having deep conversations. So having read through all the literature, a lot of the literature. I don't necessarily do that in my day-to-day dating, but if I get to a point where I'm seeing someone and giving it a go, I'm going to take that aspect a lot more seriously, I guess.
It's a rational way of approaching it, but I think it's good because it just helps understanding yourself, better understanding relationships. So even if it's with a lot of theoretical background, it will help the conversation. be more about emotions maybe also indeed and about understanding each other so i think it impacted you a lot this relationship like a crazy lot um and i also have feeling that i want to say
You're ready. You're ready for a new one. And maybe you're going to just basically be more successful at it because of all the work you've done. So yeah, that's a bit of feeling I get. So Jamie used to say, you don't learn about relationships. from books you learn them you learn about them from being in them and experiencing them and i said well you have spent your entire life in a relationship in relationships and i have spent mine being single so
I can't catch up to you. So the only potential shortcut I could take is learning about the theory. And hope that will give me a leg up in the... in the practice otherwise you're gonna say you're too far behind sorry but uh it's really impressive and it's cute actually also that you did so much effort as you said without the practice trying to catch up um but that being said
She has a lot of work to do also. And that work is on herself, like everyone. She is doing work. And yeah, so we all have our own journey. A question maybe also, because you're talking about, I've learned a lot, the theoretical concept of how to be in a relationship and how to make relationships in general work. One of the things you said is that in the end also what made it difficult between the two of you.
is the fact that you had issues committing or that the way she approached you made you feel even more stuck so did you evolve also in on that level Because I mean, that might also prevent you from being successful in serious relationships. I've evolved insofar as I'm aware. I'm still a dismissive avoidant, and so it is still my reaction to try and avoid these kind of situations. And a dismissive avoidant is characterized by basically everyone looks out for themselves.
So it's a very independent approach to a relationship. So I still feel that. And the reason why it evolved as it did is because that's the approach I understood from her. In the beginning, I felt safe. Because in the beginning, she's like, you know, I want my space. I want to do my thing. And I was like, perfect. That's how I am. So we're going to get along just fine. And as it evolved, it changed into something very different. And that's when I started to get more avoidant. Thank you.
because the reason why i also ask this question is because i have a lot of friends girlfriends who struggle with this part of meeting a lot of guys have commitment issues basically so to that extent i'm also asking you what did you learn and how do you did you approach it and what can our listeners learn from this from like i said a very important thing is to know about attachment styles so if you learn about yours and your partners that will i think will help a lot
Ever since I discovered it, I send it to all my friends who are in couples and I'm like, check this out. It's cool. Change your life. We'll also make sure we share it on Instagram because I think we'll get a lot of questions around this. Yeah, for sure. So I think that's one of the big things.
Just try and really understand yourself. It's always very important. And you need to understand your partner. And sometimes you need a little bit of a helping hand. So doing one or two sessions with a counselor can often... help simply to identify the problem so you don't need to go all the time but just helping them to pinpoint and if they can usually point it out pretty quickly
And then you at least know what to focus on. And the earlier you can catch those things, the better. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really good advice. And an advice we got earlier from one of the other guests. Yeah, very true. Just reach out to people who know a lot about it and it can help you. And just the fact of doing that is very important. Yeah. If you could do it all over again, Gerald, would you do things differently?
I would have made more of an effort to understand, like I said, understand myself and understand her with respect to the relationship. And that was one of our biggest issues is I still believe to this day she never properly understood me. like if you have trust issues if you feel jealous for instance it's uncertainty as to what a person may do or not do
And so if you really understand them and you understand how they think, how they feel, how they act, the understanding should give you more comfort. So figure out what, and we discovered that the trust was broken. We were trying to fix it. And we were trying to allow each other to understand the other. We did not succeed. But I guess I would have put a little more, I would be a little better at putting the emphasis on that. Yeah, I get that.
And on the point of jealousy, I experienced that too myself. I'm by nature not a jealous person. And if I understand... What you've been saying about Jamie, she was by nature neither. Yeah, she didn't even know that she was capable of being jealous because she'd always been with secure people who never triggered that in her. And so now I've been in these relationships. This is not me. How is it possible?
And that is a red flag, right? Because I was once also in a relationship where I got jealous and I said like, okay, this is... And maybe in hindsight, you just realized that there was something wrong with the relationship, the way we interacted. So I think it's a red flag, definitely. That's at least what I learned from it. That is a sign that something is going on and you have to fix a few things. Or that you're not made to be together. What is your biggest advice to her in hindsight?
She didn't articulate well what her relationship needs were. All she knew is that these guys made me feel secure in the past. I need you to make me feel secure. But she didn't explain to a novice like me with no experience how to do that. So I guess you need to find a way to identify what it is that you need to.
to feel comfortable in a relationship and then learn how to express them to the particular person that you're with. And I mean, it's hard to say that's advice because, you know, she tried. She tried to express and I tried to understand and it just wouldn't work. And that's why I think if we would have seen someone earlier on, it may have helped. So would you also advise her to read a few of your books? I tried.
uh when i first started learning i had sent her a couple links and and she asked me not to send it that stuff anymore so i stopped the timing was not right maybe Maybe she one day might listen to this podcast and understand a bit better then. Maybe one tricky question. Have you ever ghosted anyone after Jamie?
So, like I said, the different kinds of ghosting. Good try. Good try, Gerald. I have. I have ghosted someone, but I have never ghosted someone that was continuously texting me. Like if someone... If someone wants an explanation, I'll give it to them. But I have also learned the lesson that sometimes saying nothing is preferable to the person. So I tend to err on the side that I won't go out of the way to give an explanation unless the person asks for it.
So, you know, a lot of conversations will just die and the person will tell themselves whatever they need. But if I continue to get messages of someone I'm not interested in, I usually will call them, have a talk with them. and explain how I feel. That's my approach to things. Okay, cool. Well, thank you very much for this story. This is a wow story. I think we can make a movie now.
you can write a book seriously so uh so thank you very much for sharing because you just also said that it's putting you a little bit out of your comfort zone so thank you very much for all of this for all this information for being so open for sharing this much and yeah i mean it will help so many people just by listening to it right because the experience you've been through in these months and then afterwards by reading
we can't catch up with that but by telling us now in a couple of minutes it brings so much wisdom and so much interesting stuff so thank you very much for that you're most welcome Are there any final thoughts at your end? I think you have, this is an interesting... Yeah, like I've become very, very interested in the whole topic and idea of dating insofar as there seem to be a lot of people who succeed in every aspect of their life except dating.
And it's become more and more challenging and thus more attention is given to it. And people will tend to oscillate from being excited about it to being discouraged. And, you know, it seems that there are some that are lucky and others are not the ones who are in relationships. But then even the ones who are in relationships, it's are they going to. succeed in the end. And there are some people that you think they will and then two years later they don't. The battle of the sexes, essentially.
is a fascinating topic and i think you're doing a great thing by talking about it and raising awareness to it and you know it's it's not an easy topic but the more that it's discussed and not put in such a conservative box because everybody has a different approach to dating. And so by hearing all the different stories, maybe it will broaden people's horizons and open their minds.
And just have a better perspective, a more positive perspective of approaching their own dating life. Well, thank you very much for the feedback. And this gives me the courage and energy to continue. And I'm sure that soon it will be together with my co-host Bea again.
Thank you for sharing this because it's just nice to see that it's being appreciated and that's useful to other people also. In a fun way, I hope. And then, yeah, Bea always asks me what are your key takeaways. So for me, it's the fact that indeed... You know, never stop learning about yourself. So I think that's important. And dare to get help.
Sounds a bit heavy, but just, you know, dare to get help. And it can be in any way by reading, by listening to podcasts, by seeing it terribly. So I think definitely that's the second thing. And then the third thing is that...
Yeah, you were the first guy that we interviewed or that I interviewed. Yeah, it's also interesting just to see how similar, of course, in the end the stories can be, right? Whether you're a woman or whether you're a guy, the challenges we have are in the end quite similar, right? But it's the way we approach them that will be different. But yeah, for me, it gives me the idea that maybe we should continue also interviewing a few men and not only women. For sure. You got to balance it out.
yeah i have to balance it out so it was a turning point maybe in this podcast so yeah very very interesting so gerald um i think by having this really interesting conversation i completely missed A very important thing in my life. And you know what it is? What happened in the last hour? The soccer game? Yes, indeed. So to all the listeners. There is a very important soccer game.
There's a football game. So yeah, the Belgians were playing against the Russians. I sincerely hope they won. So as soon as I'm going to end our conversation, I will see the Red Devils won. Sure, they will have one because they're actually going to be a European champion. So watch my words. Yeah, I'll quickly end this story now to see what the result is. Gerald, cheer for Belgium. I'm crossing my fingers for you. Okay, great.
Thanks again. And to our listeners, if you have any feedback for us, please let us know. Just send us an email, thedatingstoriespodcast at gmail.com. So thedatingstoriespodcast at gmail.com. We would be very interested to hear what you think about this podcast, what you thought about this episode. And if you have any questions, because Gerald has been sharing so much, so please drop us an email and then we'll get back to you ASAP. Thank you very much, guys.
And see you or hear you soon again. Bye-bye. If you liked this episode, follow us on Instagram and Facebook at The Dating Stories. And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and share this episode with your friends. We'll see you in two weeks.