You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox Sports Radio.
Peter King, formerly with NBC Sports and the Monday Morning Quarterback and well retirement and now look at him, a contributor to the Dan Patrick Show. Here not scheduled, but great seeing you, Pete. What riled you up?
Dan?
I was just walking the dog.
I was just walking Chuck here in Brooklyn, and I was listening to your show with all of the falder all around Shadeur Sanders, and I don't know, I just wanted to address a few things.
And I'm you know, I said to Todd, so happy to talk to Dan off the air.
But I mean, there's just a few things like, for instance, wearing the hat backwards. The coach of the Year in the NFL this year was Dan Quinn. He wears his hat backwards. I think it looks a little bit twenty one ish, but that's the way Dan Quinn likes to wear his hat. Who who cares? That's one number two. Dion Sanders. I remember this specifically in nineteen eighty nine when he was in the draft and he came out like Gangbusters prime time cover of SI, you know, being
very very counter NFL culture and over the years. One of the things that I grew to respect incredibly about Dion Sanders is that he knew that a cornerback in the NFL was not going to make Troy Aikman Barry Sanders money unless he wasn't just your average, everyday great player in the draft. And so he made himself into something that he knew would make him more money. And he was smart. And look, I have no idea. I didn't go to the Combine. I don't cover the NFL
right now, so I don't know anything. Okay, I just know this that the Shaudeur Sanders who met with teams at the Combine, he probably probably can basically play the game the way he and his dad think is best for him. Like, let's just say that Dion and Shadure believe that I don't go to Cleveland.
Man, it is a graveyard.
And so when you go into Cleveland, when you go into your meeting with Cleveland, you don't have to say, oh, man, I'd love to go to Cleveland.
Here's what I'll do. I'm going to help you change your culture.
All that.
Suppose he's just a little bit passive and or you seem like he'd he seems like he doesn't care.
And again, look, I come from the stance that I know nothing other than what I've read a little bit on social media, and I don't so I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this. And Dan, I think the one last thing I would say is that, you know, you talk about guys who are arrogant maybe, and you talk about you know, like a Marino or Brady. You know, you can be any way you want when you win, any way you want. And there's something about the fire
from Dan Marino. You know the day I covered in ninety one or ninety two, maybe ninety five, I forget when it was, Dan Marino broke fran Tarkentin's all time record for passing yards.
In his career and they lost the game.
Harvey Green, the PR guy, goes up to Dan Marino after the game and says, here hands them a statu sheet from the game, figuring that. He said, you know, I figure you might want to have this keepsake, and Marino looks at it. He goes, you know, and he wasn't being a jerk to Harvey Green. He just said, we just lost the EFEN football game. I don't give two blanks about stats and about records, you know, and so those things are okay, But all I'm saying is that and is that the narrative?
You know, I think the player has a.
Chance to control before the draft, and has anybody thought that maybe Shador Sanders is just trying to control his own narrative?
Yeah, I mentioned that maybe he doesn't want to go to Cleveland if that's the team. We don't know the team, and maybe he's like, hey, I can be arrogant because I don't want you to draft me. You know, there's agendas. We understand that, and you know, as reporters, I'm sure you're fed information sometimes by somebody who has an agenda, and whether you see through or not, but you know who benefits from shod Or Sanders falling out of the
first round. A couple other quarterbacks could benefit from that, or a team may want to get him at a cheaper price. You know how this works, Pete, he did it for over forty years where people have agendas, and maybe that's what it is. But you know, to be called arrogant, is that that's that's We're okay with cocky, confident, brash, arrogant, arrogant probably you know, sounds some alarms for people. Teams.
Dan, you know what I remember before the twenty I guess it was twenty ten draft. That was the Cam Newton draft, right or was it twenty eleven, whatever it was, but I remember I interviewed Newton who was on a little bit of a press tour, and at one point during the interview he said to me, I want to be not just a great quarterback, but you know, I want to be an entertainer. And he used some other.
Oh yeah words that that you say.
Well, you know, boy, imagine a guy who wants to be drafted very high in the draft saying the other word was icon. I just remembered it. I want to be an icon and an entertainer. Well, you know, and again I'm not saying that that should be the death nel, and it certainly was it. He was the first overall pick in the draft. But I put out on Twitter and I wrote, some teams are not going to like a quarterback saying I want to be an icon and
an entertainer. They're just not so some of the stuff that, you know, you have to ask yourself if you were in an interview, a fifteen minute interview, with Dion Sanders, and he is either passive or looking at his watch, or it seems like he doesn't care. A lot of people would say, don't pay any attention, and I just look at his body at work.
Well, hang on a minute.
Are you the one who's going to stake the future of your franchise on a guy you're just really not too sure about? And I'm not suggesting that people should or they shouldn't. I'm just simply saying you'd be naive to think that that doesn't go into the pot of what you consider doing with that pick, and that it shouldn't go into it, because I think all things should go in, uh, into the mixing bowl when you consider.
What you do.
Anytime you get riled up, Pete, you can always call in. Okay, I'll give you an outlet.
All right, Dan, that sounds like fun.
Thankk you, Peter. That's the Hall of Famer Peter King joining us.
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We had some comments that Trevor Sikima, he is the lead draft analyst at Pro Football Focus, and he sent Fritzy some talking points saying that he has not heard anyone talk with conviction about you Sanders being a QB one in the top ten or even as a first rounder. We attributed that to Matt Miller, ESPN, NFL Draft analyst. So Matt, I don't know, why don't you tell us how you feel about Shudor Sanders. Do you think he'll be a first round quarterback?
You can attribute that to me. I've heard all the same things I think all of us have, especially coming out of the combine, Dan, where you all kind of everybody goes to the same three restaurants in Indianapolis and talks late at night. We're all kind of hearing the same stuff. But I would agree with that. I think it's hard to find a team right now. That says, yeah,
that's our guy, You're crazy. And I just put an article out last week before the Combine or during the combine actually, and it was ranking the quarterbacks from the past five years. Sudor Sanders was second to last. Can you Pickett was the only quarterback with a lower grade than him coming into the NFL. So that is in line with what I've seen watching the tape over the last years. It's what I hear talking to as many scouts and coaches and general managers as I do this time of year.
A lot of.
People want to like Shadoor Sanders. I don't get the feeling that teams love him, not the way that they do cam Ward. There's a sizeable gap right now to where like it's I think you could easily say this year there is a consensus number one quarterback, which is rare that doesn't often happen. Even last year with all the Caleb Williams love. There are teams that like Jayon Daniels.
There are teams like Drake May. We have a true consensus number one quarterback this year and it's cam Ward from Miami.
Okay, is this just football that we're talking about with Shador Sanders. Now cam Ward, we can get to him in a moment. But is there a smear campaign with Shador Sanders or are people just being honest with the talent or you know, performance that they saw.
So I think it's both. I do think that it's it's about football. He is six foot one, he put on some weight for the combine, he got up to two hundred and twelve pounds. He played closer to two hundred pounds. He doesn't have the biggest arm. He's not the greatest athlete I know. For folks who didn't watch Colorado play, he might be Deon sanders son, but he got his mom's feet right. He's not a four or
three athlete. But he is incredibly tough, and he's incredibly accurate, and he's willing to stand in the pocket and make some place. I do think on the other side of that is there are gonna be people that are gonna see players differently. I've talked to young scouts who loved their interviews with shod Or Sanders. I've talked to older scouts and general managers who were put off by him.
And I think that's going to be the case for a lot of the new era of athlete coming into the NFL, where guys are making millions of dollars in college football now, it has prepared them for life a little differently, and so I think you are going to get a disconnect. I tend to not put a ton of stock into those quotes from scouts and gms of oh, we didn't like this interview. It's different if everyone tells you the same thing. I remember asking about Will Levis,
and everyone I talked to said the same thing. Was like, this guy is just like pent up, like he's trying to be a perfectionist. He's not smooth, he's not fluid. The conversations feel like he's gonna have a heart attack. Well guess what, he plays the same way on the football field. So that's when I think it matters, is when those interviews match with a play style. She Door is a hell of a player. There's just there's not that love for him out there right now in the NFL.
Is cam Ward being elevated because there is no competition so he might?
Absolutely? Okay, yeah, yeah absolutely. If we were talking about last year's drafts, cam Ward would have been the sixth or seventh guy drafted, probably at quarterback, not overall, at quarterback, And that might still make you a top ten pick, right because those guys flew up the board last year. But I do think he's being elevated. It is interesting both quarterbacks Sanders and Ward, they have some bad habits
that are going to need coached out of them. Pam Ward's kind of get dismissed because he has a strong arm. It's like, well, you know, he stands in the pocket way too long. He takes a lot of sacks he doesn't need to. He very often waits for the open man. But he's got a strong arm. So you kind of like you make those excuses for it. Whereas I think both guys are going to need coach pretty hard when they get to the NFL just to learn to play
on time. Both guys have a little bit of that Caleb Williams mentality where they think they can stand back there and drift and drift and drift to wait for somebody to pop open and then they'll throw it. What we saw last year for Caleb, who I still love, Like that doesn't work in the NFL, and guys who can play on time are going to have a lot more success early. Both these quarterbacks have to figure that out.
Yeah, in college, you can wait, wait, wait, wait, and then throw. In the NFL, you can wait wait and then you better throw. So I mean, it's it's just so much quicker. You have to throw guys open. And Caleb, you know, was doing all this at USC And I remember talking to a friend of mine who's the scout And he goes, that won't last long in the NFL. He won't last long in the NFL if you think
you can escape and you know, improvise. And this scout said that he always goes back to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady when when the play was over, it was over. They went down in a fetal position. You know, live to play another day. But these college quarterback so you know, Johnny Manziel, he was always going to get out of something. Yeah, you know, it helped having a great receiver there. But I think that you know, is Tennessee going to take cam Ward?
I don't think so. I didn't get that sense, okay, And I think it's very telling that they are having these guys in for private workouts this week. This is the earliest I've ever heard of a team bringing players in after the combine. And I think they're doing that because they want they want to date with these guys so they can trade this pick, but they want to they want to have that meeting first so they can say, just in case, just in case we missed something, let's
bring in cam Ward. They're bringing in shoot Ur s Anders. They're going to have an Abdill Carter, and I think you make that decision probably very soon after this week of Okay, Cleveland Brown's New York Giants, whoever it is, We're now open for business and not only ving for business. We're far enough along in the process that we can make kind of an educated decision. But I don't I don't get the sense right now that the Titans feel like cam Ward is going to turn this football team around.
He's Matt Miller, ESPN, NFL Draft List. I always look at teams where coaching staffs that they split the season like it's the first eight or nine games, because they may not survive after eight or nine games. The Giant situation, they have to win in those first eight or nine games, and that's the tricky part. Aaron Rodgers gives you a better chance than cam Ward will or Shud or Sanders. There's probably a few other coaching staffs that have if you're in your second or third year as a head coach,
you know, not your first year like Aaron Glenn. But that's where I don't know. Do the Giants play it safe from the coaching perspective, trying to keep your job and you take Aaron Rodgers instead of cam Ward I think so.
I think that's why they were so all in on Matthew Stafford and it was no surprise. I expect they'll be in on Sam Darnold to some degree as long as he's not franchise tag today, which sounds like you won't be. And I don't know if Sam wants to go back to New York right, there's that whole other element of it. But I think what you know, in most years, you would say, you know what, draft the young quarterback and if he shows promise, you keep your job because then you have the hope of, well, we
got to develop this quarterback. I don't know that the quarterbacks this year are to that level that if you're Brian Dable or even Kevin Stefanski necessarily where you say
I'm gonna put my job on this guy. Who did you feel at any point during the college but we all season that cam Ward Orsheld or Sanders were the best quarterback in college I know they led college and touchdowns, but I never watched on a Saturday and thought, God, this guy is the best quarterback in college football, like I did Jayden Daniels, or like I did Joe Burrow. You know, you don't get that level of conviction with
these guys. So I do feel like that's where we're getting teams that are saying Cleveland's different, they have to draft a quarterback because of Deshaun Watson. But with the Titans the Giants, it's yeah, maybe we just bring in some competition here. Maybe we try to bridge quarterback situation for another season, and then if we keep our jobs, then we'll worry about what twenty twenty six might look like.
The big reason why we wanted to have you on is obviously hand size. Jalen Milroe hand sized. His hands got bigger since the Senior Bowl. How does that happen?
Almost an inch bigger, not like an incremental he grew out his fingernails an inch bigger. I don't I've talked to hand surgeons this week. How quickly could you do a finger extension?
I don't know.
You know what's going on. The honest answer is, I think what happened at the Senior Bowl is they measured his left hand, for example, and at the combine they measured his right hand. That will happen. That's the only thing I can come up with. You see measurement disparities, and there's some gamesmanship to this. I think it was. Was it Brandon Allen coming out of Arkansas like ten years ago that was doing the hand stretches to get his hands bigger and it actually worked. So I want
to talk to Cam Word. I want to find this out. I have a message into his dad, Calvin, to find out the answer to this, because I excuse me to Jayleen Milroe, I haven't a message into his agent to find this out. I got to find out because it's I've never I've never heard of an inch. That's that's a lot, that's that's a big time hand growth.
And I'm wondering about NFL teams who fell in love with the running game, if other teams will follow suit in the draft, will we see an uptick in that you won't be afraid to draft a running back or two in the first round.
I think you will be afraid, and you also will get the public backlash, except for from mel Kiper who says you should never draft a running back in the first round, otherwise you know you're not going to get your beat reporters in there saying, oh my god, I can't believe we took Ashton Genty in the top ten, or we took Omarion Hampton in the top thirty. I think you can point to Jon Robinson and Jamier Gibbs even as examples of drafting a guy in the first round.
They can come in and be the backbone of your offense. I think more importantly, if you have your quarterback, if you're a team that has that figured out, that's the time to draft a running back now because you have that position solved and you can go back to being a balanced team. But this is one of the best running back classes of not the best running back class
I've ever seen. I've been doing this for fifteen years, so I think we've got a shot to have a record for the modern era, which would be thirty running backs drafted. The last time that happened was twenty seventeen, which was Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, players like that. So I don't know that we see three fly off the board in the top fifteen necessarily, but feel pretty confidently but we could see three in the top thirty picks.
I don't know if Travis Hunter or his agent has said anything, but is there going to be any blowback if he doesn't want to go to a team because of how he thinks they would use him or not use him.
I haven't heard anything about that that would be fascinating. I think the sense that I've got is that Travis just loves football so much. He does want to go smart where he can play both ways, and it truly is like his belief that he will make that team better by doing both. But I think that is an important part of the next forty five days is him
having those conversations with teams. And I said before the combine, my number one question of him to him if I was a general manager would be what if we said you can only play one way? Which side is that? What do you prefer? I personally think he would be better as a wide receiver. I have friends in the league who think you would be better at corners. So there is kind of this polarization about which side would he be better at. But I think ultimately it comes
down to which side. Do you have a love for one side more than the other, or do you care that wide receivers make double what corners?
Dude?
Has that factored into your decision making process or the longevity. You know, he's one hundred and eighty eight pounds six foot one hundred and eighty eight pounds. I don't personally want him tackling AJ Brown fifteen times a game. I would rather him be trying to evade those guys than go out and initiate contacts. So there is a lot to that. I know he says he could play both ways. I think he can try. My statement has been it is very hard to be great at one position in
the NFL, just mentally it's so hard. So now we're going to divide that time to a rookie and say, hey, not only welcome to the NFL, but but now you got to learn two very very hard positions to transition to the NFL, where we don't see guys as rookies oftentimes have great years as corners, times at receiver. But we're asking him to learn two very hard positions at the same time. I don't know how feasible that is.
He said that it's tougher to do what he's trying to do than what sho Heu Tani does by hitting and pitching your thoughts, I.
Think hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports. So I'm gonna respectfully disagree as someone who could do neither right. It's easy to sit here in my quarter zip and say one's easier than the other. But I think hitting a baseball when it's one hundred miles an hours, the hardest thing is forcing them to turn around to be a dominant pitcher. Now to Travis's point, he said, show Hey only pitches once every five games. That's five days. By the way, Travis only have to play football once
every seven days. So if we're being honest about the statements, they're both getting some breaks in there. But I think what show Hey does is unprecedented.
Great to talk to you. Is there anybody that we should keep an eye on that you would consider given what happened at the Combine that really affected their draft status.
I think Nick even worry The safety from South Carolina went from being a late first rounder to maybe a top fifteen pick to be six three two twenty throne of four to three. He looks like Derwin James out there. He has ball skills. He had four picks five pass breakups this year. He's a great tackler as well. So I still think as we try to figure out how to handle mobile quarterbacks. Defenders like him are the answer. So he's I think he's the biggest riser coming out of it all.
Great to talk to you. We'll talk to you again. Thank you, Matt.
Thanks An.
That's Matt Miller.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Trevor Sikimam he is the lead analyst Pro Football Focus and you have a strong opinion on Shudor Sanders as well. Trevor, good to have you back. Where do you stand on Shudoor Sanders. Yeah, I appreciate it.
Dan.
First off, five to eleven one seventy eight and seven eight inch hand size, although that is with no hand massaging going on. So I feel like if we get a couple of weeks with that technique, I can hit that Joe Burrow nine inch threshold. So I just want to say that first and foremost. You know what shoud Or Sanders. The fact of the matter is I had him slipping out of my post combine mock draft that
I did over at PFF dot com. And the reason why is because I could not find anybody that spoke with conviction with Shuder Sanders being QB one taken in the top ten, or even as a first round quarterback. So to me, when I hear that and I line that up with a lot of people were talking about cam Ward, is somebody that you take that chance on, I feel like it's a one quarterback race at this point.
Now.
When I watch Shador, he plays a very clean brand football. He understands the position very very well. You could tell that he's been raised around the game. He understands how to read defenses, go through progressions, all of that, operate the pocket, make protection calls.
He knows how to play quarterback.
The reason why I'm a little bit lower on him, I gave him a late second early third round grade, is simply because I don't know if he's got that crazy arm talent to be able to compete against the Lamar Jackson's, the Josh Allens, the Patrick Mahomes, guys like that. That The reason why you would draft a quarterback isn't in the top ten, isn't just because hey, let's take one just because we need one. It's because you want
to win a Super Bowl. You're taking a guy that high because you believe he can win a Super Bowl. Does Shudor have the overall arm talent the matchup against those guys.
I don't think so.
And I think as we are getting you know, more into draft season and the combines a really good barometer for this, you get sort of caught up on what the league might have been thinking about these players really all along. And I think we talked about it to QB Race because there's so many quarterback needy teams in the top ten.
But it just feels like teams.
Are much more gravitating towards cam Ward worthy of a top selection and Shador maybe something more on Day two or the late first round.
But how much of this is the last name that if this is just you know, Should or Smith and not Should or Sanders, you know, does his draft status stock change at all? In your mind?
I would say that it would probably be the other way around. You know, when you look at Shador and I understand how well he played over the last couple of years and everything that he was able to do at Jackson State and then also at Colorado, I think, again, he plays a very clean brand of football, But does he have those NFL level traits that you want as a franchise caliber quarterback, because he lacks the overall mobility.
And again, I think that he's got a mid tier NFL level arm strength, but it's nothing that's really special. So I wonder if it's the opposite VP, and I wonder if it's the fact that, hey, we've been talking about Shador in the top ten, in the top five because of sort of who he is and the notoriety that he has, instead of the other way around, like we're seeing now where it's like, oh, well, does the NFL not like him, you know, because of his last name,
and some people call it baggage. I agree with Shador when he said at the Shrine, boy, He's like, I didn't know that having a supportive parent was all of a sudden a bad thing, you know, Like I totally
agree with him when he says that. And so I think it's much more of maybe the notorieting him being in the public eye and us saying like, hey, if you need a quarterback, he's a quarterback in this class and now we're just sort of catching up to it feels like the NFL saying maybe not quite in the top ten, maybe something a little bit further down the line.
And he's going to get a lot of attention because he's Dion Son. And then there's cam Ward, who is appears to be by far and away the number one quarterback in the draft. Let's nitpick, because that's what we start to do this time of the year. Trevor nitpick cam Ward.
Well, I think that you know Joe Shane, the general manager of the New York Giants, who they very much need a quarterback as well. You know, he was asked specifically about cam Ward when he was at his podium session at the Combine, and you know, he said, you know, hey, you watch that col game, in that Virginia Tech game. Those are two games where at the end of it, when the clock heads zero, cam Ward, what a hero
incredible comeback. But then he goes the reason why they needed to come back is also because of him a little bit. So it is a little bit of that hot and cold there. And so there's no doubt, I mean, like you don't need to even necessarily call it nitpicking to talk about what is the total product of cam Ward. He's somebody who is just very unorthodox and how he looks back there in the pocket. I mean, there are times when the feat just stop moving completely and you go,
did you freeze? Like do we need to you know, unplug you and reset you here before you get rid of the ball, And like that's just sometimes what it looks like for Cam Warden. So his style, you know, how he releases the football, the decisions of when to push the ball down the field, all of that, it's a little bit boom or bust. You know, it's a
little bit of like can you stomach this? But the reason why I do, and the reason why he's my QB one is because I firmly believe that in a game where the margins are so small, every quarterback in the NFL has about two to four throws that they have to make every single week to win in this league. Cam Nordon not only, in my opinion, has the arm talent to do so, but he has the mentality to do so. He will willingly attack those throws and take those chances. So it's a lot of that. Hey, there's
a lot of good, a lot of bad. You want to try to raise the floor with them. But yeah, I mean, we don't even necessarily have to call it nitpicking. This is sort of a risky quarterback class here, including with Ward.
Trevor Sikima, the Pro Football Focus lead draft analyst, joining us on the program. Ye, if you looked at Sam Donald's profile now compared to when he was coming into the NFL, how much has it changed with Pro Football Focus looking.
At him now, It's a lot. And it's a lot of dealing with pressure.
Honestly, you know, what he was able to do at USC, I think that that short sort of shows that, you know, when you're in a really good college environment, sometimes that can mask things, right. We saw that with Zach Wilson as well, where at BYU he's playing behind one of the best offensive lines in the country, and then he gets to the New York Jets. Both of those guys, ironically, and it's just a different story. You're playing with a lot of pressure.
You know.
There's the phrase that everybody likes to, you know, continue to bring up with Sam Donald, where he felt like he was seeing ghosts and it just it took him a while to get to this point where he's now confident enough to not see ghosts anymore, to really be able to play under pressure the way that he needs to now. I know those last two games of the season sort of brought back some of those doubts from him.
But you know, at PFF, it was really that passing grade under pressure that was such a sticking point with him when he was with the Jets and how different it was under Kevin O'Connell and in that system. Now did O'Connell do a nice job of making it maybe easier for him, of course, but that manifests itself in confidence, and that's the most important thing for every player making the jump from college to the NFL. When can you
expect that confidence? And I think that's a big part of when teams do these player interviews and when they get these guys in for these private workouts, it's simply determined because they've watched the tape, they know the scouting reports. It's simply determining, are you a confident football player? Can you hit the ground running and still bring all of your talent to the floor here when you get here
in the NFL? And for Sam that wasn't the case early on, but sometimes it takes a little bit of development from these guys.
How many running backs have first round grades at Pro football focus.
So I would say two of them have first round grades in Ashton Genty and Omari and Hampton. But I could see, yeah, after the combine that Queen Shawn Jenkins had from Ohio State, I think he is in that category. You know, Caleb Johnson, I know a lot of people love him from Iowa. I think that he is in that category. The running back that I am the most confused with is did we just forget what Cam's Gadibo
did at Arizona State over this past year. Like I understand, he's not going to run the fastest forty yard dash, but even at the combine, the one thing he did was the vertical jump and it was thirty nine and a half inches. That is well above expectation and showcases that explosive this. I mean we even saw in the College Football Playoff. He's rushing for touchdowns, he's catching touchdowns, he's throwing for touchdowns.
This is a football player, man.
And from the running back position, I think that we just we sometimes focus on the wrong things. How often do you really have the chance to be a quote unquote home run hitter at the running back position? How many times do you get the chance to run a forty to fifty sixty yard game to the house doesn't happen at the NFL level. Give me the guys that will turn a three yard carry into a four and a half yard carry on a regular basis with that
yards after contact in that style. So I don't think that camp Scatabo is going to go in round one, but that's another player that we're going to get a lot of these running backs that go on the fringe or early parts in a round two.
I mentioned Caleb Johnson Scattaboo.
I think that Traveon Henderson is in there as well, a couple of guys who had good combines, and DJ Giddens and RJ Harvey might get there in the back of the second round. So I would tell you we're getting at least two they get the least Ashing gent and O Marion Hampton are getting in the first round, but could very well have that third if it's Quineawn Jenkins.
Great to talk to you as always, Trevor, thanks for joining us.
Appreciate a DP any time.
That's Trevor Sickman