You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox Sports Radio.
Hall of Famer. He's Joe Thomas joins us on the program. Joe, come on in here, all right, A round of applies for you.
How we doings.
We do?
Yeah? You know I did not come empty handed here because you know, I'm from Wisconsin and whok is enjoying yourself? And my mom always taught me we got to be Wisconsin nice and you don't show up as a guest empty handed. I got a little hat for you. I know you guys aren't Browns fans, but somewhere there's a Browns fan that may want that when we leave.
Okay, are you still a Browns fan after what happened last night?
Well, it was a little tough last night. It was like Christmas morning when you're waking up and you've asked Santa for that one gift and you're just sure it's coming, and all of a sudden you open it up and it's like, hey, this is a gift certificate for next year's Christmas.
Like I'm dang, what would you have done?
I mean, it would be hard for me to pass up on Travis Hunter just because he's a guy. That can change the game on both sides of the ball. You can never have enough good cornerbacks, you can never have enough good wide receivers. And it would have been nice to see him because I think he's just a great locker room guy. And it was a tough year for Browns fans, let's be honest, and so to get a little bit of excitement and hope on Draft Day, which is typically our super Bowl, would have been kind
of nice. But I think when you look at the Hall that they got, how do you turn that down? I mean, it was a historic hall for being able to just slide back a couple spots and then still get a great player in Mason Graham.
Okay, but this is what I never understand. People talk about, Oh, you got all these draft picks, but if you're not good at drafting, what does it matter? Because the Browns have a history of recent history of not being very good at drafting.
What do you consider recent like the last twenty years?
Yeah, last fifteen years, I mean you worked.
Yeah, well, I mean they've had some good picks obviously, Sarrett, Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
The reason we're in this situation is.
Maybe, like Johnny Manziel, the defensive back from Oklahoma State.
Let's not talk about Justin Gilbert. I mention that name.
Yeah, but I just thought, if you take Travis Hunter, now you're relevant. Now somebody, now we would tune in to watch the Browns. Nobody's tuning in to watch Miles Garrett. I mean, you appreciate Miles Garrett, but you want to be relevant and the Browns aren't relevant.
Now.
The curiosity is how old is their quarterback? I mean that's really the big curiosity here. You get Travis Hunter and then today you get Shador Sanders. Now I got something. I got something fun here. Maybe it's not sustainable with the quarterback, but at least you reunite them. Now people are talking about the Cleveland Browns.
Yeah.
I guess do you want to win the draft or do you want to win some games down the line. And I think it's a it's a difficult decision and it's a tough trade off when you're sitting here and everybody wants that microwave approach, that instant gratification of being able to have those two guys like you mentioned, and you got the excitement, but you know, there was a lot of excitement when we drafted Johnny Manziel, and you know, we've had a lot of excitement on draft day in
the past and it's not always worked out. So sometimes I think you do have to make the tough decisions and be realistic about the situation you're in. Admit to yourself that, hey, we aren't one player away and we don't have enough conviction in Shadeur Sanders, hoping that they'd be able to get him today to say like, yep, we put those two guys together, we got a strong playoff team. We think that Chaudeur is a guy that can make maybe give us a run in the playoffs.
And I just don't think that evaluation led them to that belief.
Did you ever pull Johnny Manziel to the side and have a conversation with him?
We talked occasionally and I was like, hey, man, why don't you love football? More Like it would be really cool if you showed up for a few meetings every now and then.
And what did he say?
I don't think he was there. I think I was sending him a text message like, hey, we're at the meeting.
Review you don't think he loved football?
I think it was pretty obvious that he enjoyed playing football as a kid's game, but when it came to doing the work, the preparation that it takes, you know, it's really hard, especially being a quarterback in the NFL, because you're putting a lot of time in on your own, getting yourself ready not only for games, but practicing, watching film and dedicating your body to the weight room. And look at what Tom Brady did. I mean, basically all he did when he was a player was take care
of his body, study film, and play football. And that's the commitment you have to make. And not everybody's willing to make that.
Well, you see a lot of quarterbacks, not a lot, but you see some that are they've been so good it's so easy for them in high school and like Kyler Murray, I just think football was easy for him. And then you get to the pros where you really have to put in the time. Now Johnny in high school, Johnny in college, and then all of a sudden you get to the pros and you just see some of these guys who it was too easy for them. Third part is when you like, you feel like you've made
it when you get to the NFL. But that's when it starts. Yeah, like you, you didn't make it when you were drafted by the Browns. You had to then prove, you know, that you were worthy of that that draft pick.
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons that when I was drafted in two thousand and seven, I wasn't super excited to go to the draft because it kind of made me upset that a lot of players thought that this was the end of the road. You know, this was my king moment and now all the work is done and I can just enjoy the work that I did before and the money that comes and the fame that comes. But for me, it was just like, Hey, this is where I'm going to be starting my journey,
and this is where the work begins. And I think, no matter who you are, no matter how great you are in college and how great you become in the NFL, you do hit those oil slicks on your path to success. And you got to be willing to put in a different level of work and commitment to your craft than you did to be great and win the Heisman in college.
Didn't I I talk to you the day of the draft or after the draft, you were hunting, weren't you.
I was fishing shout on Lake Michigan out of Port Washington, Wisconsin with the dad. Yeah it was great. Hey, maybe there's some people from Port Washington not too far from here.
But why go fishing instead of go to the draft?
Well, Gil Brandt asked me to go to the draft the Hall of Fame scout from the Dallas Cowboys, And you know, I'm a man of my word. I'm a guy that keeps his commitments. Or I tried to. I did ghost you one time on the show back at like two thousand and nine. I'm sorry about that one still,
by the way. But you know, I had a date to fish with my dad going back a long time on Saturday, and the NFL was just a little bit late to ask me to show up to the draft, and I said, hey, sorry, I'm already planning to go fishing with my dad. And that sounds a lot more fun than putting on the suit and going to New York City.
What advice would you give these offensive linemen who were drafted.
I would say, just come in with your head down, be ready to work, your eyes open, your mouth shut, listen and learn from those old guys and try to build yourself, a process to prepare for games, because that was one of the things that was most important in my career. I had Hank Frayley, who is our center now turning into a great NFL coach. He was offensive line coach for the Detroit Lions. But I was able to get in there and some other veteran guys, and
they showed me their process. How you watch film, how you take notes, how you prepare for practice, how you evaluate yourself. Because the coaches are going to do a great job, but if you want to be great, if you want to be consistently great, you've got to do it for yourself, and you've got to have a system that you stick to that you go through every single day for practice, and then every week when you're getting ready for Sundays.
Well, you know, the Patriots are on the clock, and then they take the offensive lineman Will Campbell out of LSU and you know it's not a sexy pick. But then you hear what he says that he's gonna he'll die. I check my quarterback. That's when you go, yes, yeah, you know, Mike Grabel got his goune. But then they talk about short arms. I mean, how long are your arms?
I don't know. Maybe somebody can look it up. But that was the knock on me coming out draft, which I always thought was funny. I'm like, what makes my arms short? I guess I don't understand, like if my middle finger is an inch longer, because they measure from here to here, which is kind of a weird measurement. Like I don't block people like this last time I checked. Usually I'm like going like this, and I'm blocking with
my feet. My hands are just connecting me and my body to the opponent, and so I mean, obviously longer is better than shorter with your appendages, but like it really is not gonna it's well, here we go. We
got apparently an officionado he knows the thing. But uh, I don't know why they think that, like a very very minute difference is able to classify somebody as Yep, you can do it, and no, sorry, you can't do it, because really, it's your feet, it's your technique, it's your balance, it's your mind and your ability to get into those biomechanical positions. It's the way you can bend your ankles, knees and hips, like that's what determines success or failure.
But I think sometimes, especially with the combine, we're very attached to these measuring systems that are very very archaic. They're not very accurate at measuring exactly how long are your arms? Because I always thought, hey, wouldn't it be good as if you put like a plate of glass between the guy's chest and you had them stick like their arms out like this with their palms, because that's
what you block people with. You don't block people like this, but the problem and you certainly don't block them like this. Even wingspan is kind of misleading because now you're measuring how long are their hands and their fingers, how wide is their chest, which really it's obsolete, it doesn't matter.
But they always want a way to be able to compare the people that were their ten, twenty, thirty, forty years ago, because they build these models of all, right, you know, this is the probability of success if they have this measurement in that measurement, so they don't want to change it, even though a lot of that stuff really it's just not applicable at all, even to the thing that they're trying to measure.
He's a hall of Famer Joe Thomas, how many sacks did you give up in your career?
I don't think I gave up any. Actually, you know, the ones that they may be credited for me were probably the quarterback's fault.
How many do you think you actually, yeah.
I think it was probably around twenty or something like that, twenty six.
How many times did you hold well?
I never had no for sure. How many times did you get cold penalties? I don't know, maybe thirty, twenty ten, five, I don't know.
Joe is raising beef cattle, Yeah, it's shilling your Hall of Fame beef products.
Yeah.
You know, you guys do this such a great show, and you're out here grinding away and you don't get food. But there's nothing better than a beef stick for a snack. I figure you guys, you know, make it a little hungry today. And so I had a chance to offer you some of the great Hall of Fame beef from my family farm in Wisconsin.
It's six Springsfarm dot com for more information.
Be wary that this is exceptional stuff and you might not go back to the regular stuff if you're going back home. This is the stuff that my kids are literally fighting over when they come home from school. So I hope you enjoy it, but stop farm the table. It's the kind of a passion project. See hey, that was a good answer, and I'll put the knife away before I get in trouble. We're doing good things here in Wisconsin, aren't we. Guys? Here we go, we still got a crowd here.
Do you wish you would have played for the Packers?
You know, I grew up a huge Packer fan. I was twelve when they won the Super Bowl, Brett Farv and the Roy Butler and Reggie White, and so I carried that through college and then you get drafted and until you really are just all in for another team. Playing for the Browns. Obviously Browns fan, I wanted us to win, but you still kind of hold that love for your team that you grew up in because you remember all those feels that you had, you know, when
they had those successes. And so early on in my career, I was always kind of saying, you know, I wasn't hoping they would trade for me, but I wasn't going to be mad if they did. Because living in Wisconsin, obviously the weather is so nice as it is today, forty in raining, I got my family here, get to play in lambeau Field, which is the greatest stadium. It's
the cathedral to football. But then as my my career were on, my kids were born in Cleveland, I've really identified more as a Cleveland Er as a Cleveland brown And so now living back in Wisconsin, kids are allowed to be Packer fans. I cheer for them if they're not playing the Browns. But you know, I think it's interesting, as you work in the business, how kind of your allegiances just changed a little bit.
But you didn't think about maybe one your final year like JJ Watts, I see, yeah, talked about maybe one year playing.
For them, but he didn't. So it's like, you know, I get but he wanted to. But he wanted to. I mean I wanted to. But you know, I think when you kind of weigh the costs and the benefit of everything, in the end, you still want to be in like a great situation for you and how you fit into the team, and that's kind of like the most important thing I think for me. My career ended probably before I wanted to because I had a bad knee. I tore my try so I was just kind of
breaking down. But you know, the little kid in me says, yea, I wouldn't have been cool to put the green and gold helmet on. But I never also wanted to be the guy that's like, oh, he used to be good, but we're just kind of taping them together and rolling them out there to be nice to them.
Right. Did you ever score a touchdown?
I never did. I picked up a couple of fumbles, and that's about it. Never never, no, never, never. In the end of that, I guess maybe close. In my mind, it was Thursday night football in Cincinnati and we fumbled into the end zone and I jumped on the pile and I was like, this is my chance, this is it, you know. But I had a record going towards the end of my career of consecutive snaps over ten and
a half years. I never missed a play. And so if you go in as an eligible receiver, like on the goal line, to try to throw you a pass, and let's say there's a penalty or something like that, now you back up and it's third down and long, and you want to be able to put that player back in as a tackle and take them away from being an eligible number. You can't do that without taking
a time out. So they never even put like a play and to placate me and make me think that I was going to be able to score a touch on. But I also had my hands taped like a boxer. I had casts on my thumbs and my fingers looked like ninja turtles. So I actually didn't even want to try to catch a ball because I it would be real bad like this.
Uh, he is Joe Thomas and it's six Springsfarm dot com. That's right, and so this is direct to consumer.
Yeah, we sell on the website.
You know.
It's me and my family and my kids in twenty and eighteen said hey, dad, we want a pet cow. And I'm like, oh boy, this is going to take some work. And then I started thinking like, oh, but but I can eat this pet.
I can't do that with the other ones.
And so I'm like, you know what what I learned as a pro athlete as how you take care of your body and how the fuel that you put in it it gives you the fuel that you put out, and you know how your body is determined and how you feel. And I was like, well, you know, I love eating beef, so I want to see if I can raise the best beef on planet Earth, regardless of price. You know, NFL salary was good, so I don't have to worry about pitching pennies. I'm raising raising the beef cattle.
And we just kind of stumbled into something and it all started with getting five cows for the kids.
That's great. If you would like to see Joe's meat, you can go to it is available night six springsarms dot com. Good to see him, Thanks for coming on.
I appreciate you. Guys.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio WAPP.
He is Rick Neuheisel, a former coach and uh. He is hosting every round of the draft coverage here in Green Bay and throughout the year. You can hear him hosting Full Ride on Serious XM College Sports Radio. Rick new Isael joins us on the program here. That's ume boy, how do we knowing? How's everybody? My man?
Hi, buddy?
How you been? I like that? Rick is hosting his radio show right now, right now while he's on my show. So nothing like being paid for not working exactly. Thank you, Thank you for the respect. Great to see you. Let me ask you the question I've been asking everybody else. You're you're on the clock last night. You would have done what.
I might have traded into the first round there for that thirty second pick, just switched with the Chiefs. I might have traded into that just because you get the fifth year. If in fact Shadur's the choice, you'd love to have a quarterback for that fifth year.
And if he.
Hits like you all hope that he will, then you've got an extra year to negotiate him being the franchise guy going forward. But that was the story of the draft. You know, the weight whether or not Shador is going to last. All the stories that were coming about about interviews and body language and things of that nature. At the end of the day, they're going to start looking now at the tape again and see that Shador Sanders
is a courageous player in the pocket. He stands in there and takes people right in his face and still throws accurately seventy four percent passer. In some ways, it is almost like they were teaching him a little lesson in humility. But now somebody wants to get a really good player.
Would you have taken Travis Hunter if you're Cleveland.
I think Travis Hunter is a unique athlete, and I thought that Andrew Berry the GM was going to take him when he called him the show Hey Atani of the NFL. I said, you can't say that about him
and then not take him. But what he was doing was pitching that to some suitors because now he gets Jacksonville's I think first rounder next year, right, and they get Mason Graham, who helps make Miles Garrett a better player and more worth the money they just paid Miles Garrett because he's going to attract so much attention inside. So what would you have done? I like what Jackson did. I think Liam Cohen is a terrific young coach. The Tampa Bay offense is exhibit a of the evidence of that.
I think he's got a star on both sides of the ball. We got a chance to interview Travis after he was selected. What a bright kid, a unbelievably confident young man. And I mean that in a very kind way, but there's no question in my mind that he can play both sides of the ball, his body will hold up, and that will be interesting to see how they use him as the kind of the Swiss Army Knife of
Jacksonville's franchise. But Daniel Jeremiah said that with the Browns were going to have him major in offense and minor in defense. That's right to go along with Jerry Judy. I think Liam Cohen, being an offensive guy, has got all sorts of plans for him offensively. But the one thing, and he knows this from his college coach Dion Sanders, you can play lockdown. He has the skill set. You
just go lock that guy down. And to the gift for a defensive coordinator to have somebody that can take the number one receiver away, in particular into the boundary. You can play all sorts of other things with your ten other guys that can found a quarterback as long as you can take their alpha way, and I think Travis Hunter has the gifts to do that.
We're talking to Rick new Heisl, the CBS Sports college football analyst, former college head coach. When you see cam Ward in his grade this year, but if he was drafted last year, would have been maybe the sixth or seventh right quarterback Okay, does it make sense for Tennessee to take a guy who would have been these sixth or seventh quarterback a year ago and you take him number one? Overall?
It may not make sense to Tennessee, but it certainly did to Brian Callahan.
He's got to have a guy.
And Will Levis, for all his attributes, still has what I call a panic reflex when the bullets start flying in a pocket. There was a bit wanting to get the ball out and it was irresponsible. Too many turnovers, whether it was fumbles or interceptions.
Cam War.
Is that fixable.
Potentially? See I think Bo Nicks had that. I think Bo Knicks had that at Auburn, and I think it calm down at Oregon. Still was evident, but we just saw him emerge in the second half of the season last year with getting better and better. So uh yeah, I think it is fixable. It's gonna you have to really pound it with attention, and I don't know how much more many more snaps Will Levis is going to get in Tennessee now that they've invested the way they
have in Ward. But if you watch Ward, whether it be an incarnate word, Washington State or this last year at Miami, an unusual amount of calm, a mahomesy amount of calm in terms of just finding Houdini ways out of the pocket and making a play, sometimes to his detriment, making a turnover and he'll have to correct that.
But unusual poise in.
The in the pocket that when it, when it, you know the house is on fire or the houses on fire. He gets the baby out of the house, he gets it out. So I think it was a wise choice, the right choice given their situation. And I hope cam Ward I heard that thirty two fifty. I think that's probably about right. You guys are all. I think twenty seven hundred. Somewhere in there I would have taken the over of all where you were, I would have said three thousands that I think the guys gifted.
Give me the strategy you didn't like from last night.
Pittsburgh. You know they have dealt let Justin Fields walk out the door. They've let Russell Wilson walk out the door. Mason Rudolph comes back. He knows the culture, and no one has a more indoctrinated culture than the Pittsburgh Steelers, So I know they feel comfortable with Mason Rudolph. But they don't have a second round pick right now. What are they going to do if there's you know, Chador probably will be gone. I don't know if the kid
from Louisville will be gone, Tyler Shuck. You know, it's a fascinating tale for the Steelers. I think Milroe would have been a great pick. They have played against Lamar Jackson for for a number of years and know what kind of a headache that is, and especially now that you have dk Metcalf and Pickings as your alpha receivers, much like the Eagles have DeVante Smith and aj Brown. When you have those two guys and you always get single high because you have to have eight men in
the box because the quarterback's a run threat. That's a nightmare. And the Eagles took it all the way to the national championship. And it's a case study right there with Jalen Hurts at Alabama as a sixty percent passer before he went to Oklahoma and now Milrose is sixty four,
sixty five percent. I know he's sixteen and eleven were not touchdown interception ratio this year, but last year it was like twenty something to eight I think Milroe was worth something for the Steelers that I'm surprised they haven't figured out a way to get to him, because with those two alphas outsire as the receivers and his ability to throw the ball deep, he would have been a real weapon for the Steelers.
Yeah. I was told last night that the Steelers liked the kid out of Louisville. Yeah, Tyler Shuck. Yeah, so they might that might be a third round pick for them. But I was told that they like him.
Yeah.
Listen, the Saints are in the quarterback market. Obviously Cleveland's going to be in the quarterback market. I just for them to be without a second round pick makes me nervous for them.
You normally give us a song when you see us in person.
So this is how this worked, ladies and gentlemen. I get a call this morning, Hey, well, do you have your guitar? Like I travel like a bandolier, like, you know, with my guitar on my back, you know, Bob Dylan, you know, coming across the country. I said, thank goodness, I don't. Oh but we have one. But we have one. Yeah, we So I've got to you've got a guitar here? So I penned a quick song. Okay, I penned a quick song. We'll see if this works, but you're gonna
have to. And by the way, did you all know that I was born in Wisconsin, the son of Dick and Jane Newheisel.
Dick and Jane new Heiseel.
Dick is from Cashton, Jane is from Veroqua, and both went to the University of Wisconsin. I was born right there in Madison and Madison General. And when Dick Vermial and Brent Musburger I coached. My first game at Colorado was at Camp Randall against the Badgers. So you know, those two guys took Dick and Jane in a car
for the sight seeing tour around the campus. He pointed out the hospital and said, that's where my mom said, that's where Rick was born, and my dad pointed at a Cadillac and that's where Rick was conceived.
Oh whoa, that didn't go over so well. Jane, do you want to bring the microphone up there a little bit? Marvin? Would you help?
Come on, Marv, what are we doing here? So this, given what took place last night Little Diddy about Dion and song, they went last night thinking.
They were number one, No worries. Sure can still be a star.
I'm just gonna have to start in the back seat of someone's car.
Oh yeah, Singing life goes on long after the thrill of being number one. Oh yeah, singing store will go on.
That's all root for the kid because he stir ain't number one.
Something like that.
You know, very little time, very little time.
You're the John Lennon of former college coaches. I mean, just you whip that up outside, we hand you git over.
Here going, I gotta have something that I can't when you have no talent, there has to be something that draws away from the fact that you have no talent.
Well, you did give us Born in the sec, Born in the SEC.
That was a hit.
That was a hit. That was great. Yeah, we had the Johnny Manziel tribute song as well, the Ballad of John Ballad of Johnny.
Down in the West, down in the bad Lens they call College Station lived the young aggie named Johnny Manziel.
Yeah, exactly. Great to see you. Now you can go back to your show that you're going to go do my show. He is Rick new Heisel. You're the best. Thank you so much. Thank you coach Full Ride on sirius XM College Sports Radio channel.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live. This is Pray another Draft night live and you know, you know, we had it all the inside of the probs the picks. If you missed anything podcasted on your favorite platform or just watch it on YouTube, just search FSR. We are Fox Sports Radio.
I don't think he's had much sleep. Uh he worked the draft last night. Let's make way for ESPN's Lewis Riddick, who joins us on the program.
How are you. I'm just I'm just kind of like, I'm just kind of like making my way. Man, I'm a little bit like zombie, So I apologize. How's everybody doing out there?
I don't know they either.
You know, they have they have a lot of things to be happy. What a great scene, by the way last night, to go back, go pack, go chant. It's one of the iconic chants.
Man, it was.
It's such a cool scene. I just hope they can duplicate it tonight. We need the energy. How much sleep have you had. Oh? Man, it's hard to it's hard to like kind of like come down off of that because you know, you so locked in for four or five hours straight you're analyzing every pic to answer your question. Maybe about three hours or so, three or four hours, it's about it.
Sleep a little bit today, and then you get ready for I.
Have no time. I have no time. I'm leaving you. I'm going to another production meeting. The I'm go to see rich Eysen. Then I have to get dressed and we have a car and then meetings. Yeah, this weekend, it's it's all go, man, I'll go.
I'm a little worried about Mel Kuiper with Shador Sanders not getting drafted last night.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mel. When you know when when Mel, when Mel gets locked in and you know how that goes. He wants he believes what he believes, and that's part of like that's part of draft evaluation. Right, you get convicted on something, and you know the one of the
things you have to do. I guess though, Dan, when you're when you're having a when you're in the middle of the broadcast, is look, these are these individual players moment in time that they're never gonna have again, So you don't want to rob anyone else of their time because you personally feel a certain way about maybe another player.
And I think sometimes you know, fans can get they get annoyed at that, And I get that, and I know there were some people who were a little annoyed last night that they thought that after Cam got picked at our conversation quickly shifted to where's shoudor gonna wind up going? And I get that, I understand it. But Mel's very he Look, he believes what he believes about should Or the same way I believe what I believed about c J. Stroud and Jayde and Daniels, you know,
to the past two years. So we'll see how it all turns out.
How surprised were you that he wasn't taken in the first round?
Uh? I am, but I'm not because see I'm surprised because look, I know the football player. I know that this young man if you strip away the fact that he's Shouldore Sanders and he's Deon Sanders's son, and that he is someone who is very confident, very self assured, someone who has lived a great life because of his father, has had a great life that there are some people who just inherently are very jealous of that. And look, when you're talking about player evaluation, there is a subjective
personal component to it. You cannot it's hard for a guy. Look, they're human beings who are evaluating these guys and human beings who are picking them. And sometimes if someone comes off the wrong way to you or you don't like it, it just doesn't jibe with you, it's going to affect your evaluation. But the evaluation on the football field cannot be disputed. He's one of the best quarterbacks in the country.
There are many people who would tell you, look, throw for throw, he can match up with anybody in this draft, whether that's Cam whether that's Jackson Darr, whether that's Tyler Shut. He can match up throw for throw. He had no help at Colorado, no offensive line like he had more free runners come at him over the past two years than any quarterback in the FBS. But still he slid. So what does that tell you. There's there's some things that people just don't like or don't feel our worth.
First round value. He's gonna get picked today. And I'll tell you what if you thought he had a chip on his shoulder before. If you thought he was a little bit surly before, look out, give me the.
Draft Knight strategy. You didn't understand.
I didn't understand, you know. I think, Look, I understand why. I think the one that was probably a little bit of a of a risk. Look, I mean Atlanta gave up a lot to move up in order to draft James Pierce. Okay, who had some concerns about you know, just are you gonna be able to trust James Pierce to do the right things all the time and be a dependable player and really fix the number one thing that has haunted Atlanta over the past four years, which
is they just can't rush the passage. Yeah, they just can't. James Pierce is like Javon Kurse though in terms of athletic ability six five two forty five runs four four seven. I mean, that's ridiculous, But it's that. But that's that's not really what determined success and failure all the time. It's about doing the right thing, being consistent and all that. So the price that they paid in order to get him. Look, I understand, like when you're trying to get pass rushers,
you're trying to get difference makers that you will. You will sometimes go above and beyond which you originally thought you would. I just hope that play that pans out for Rahim uh and the crew and Terry font know to GM down there in Atlanta because they need him to hit big, real big.
I thought the Steelers were going to take a running back. You know, you don't have Nage Harris, right, they'd love to run the football.
True, but you know what Cam Habard's getting is getting older. The defense, although it has been like their bedrock, they need to replenish it. I get what I'm when I'm surprised that you don't have you don't have a quarterback. You're right, You're right looking, and I'm not I'm not really defending them. I'm just kind of like trying to look at it through their eyes. Look, Derek Harmon has to be big time for them. He has to be
the next Cam Hayward. He has to be the next Aaron Smith, all those guys that were there and that played great football and helped them win super Bowls and be you know, perennial super Bowl contenders. Look, I agree with you, though I agree with you. What are they going to do at quarterback Now, it's Aaron Rodgers or bust. It just is And that is a hell of a position to be in. Would you want to count on that?
No, would you want to.
Count on him making a decision anytime soon? Does he sound like someone who wants to make a decision anytime soon? Absolutely not. And they're not going anywhere with Mason Rudolph. As much as I respect Mason Rudolph, I was told last night they liked the quarterback out of Louisville Tyler Shuck. Look, I think he's twenty five that you know, he's still He's still a guy who will be a two contract quarterback.
He'll play ten fifteen years in the NFL. All the medical checks that he has had, yeah, you know, because that's the other thing that people worry about, the injuries that he had. Look, he broke his collarbone twice running the football, got hit right on it, had someone roll on his ankle, fracture his lower leg. Those are things that can happen to any quarter You can't you can't
prevent that. So he's not injury prone. But I will tell you this, what he is is maybe maybe the most throw for throw most talented thrower in this draft is what he is. He can throw the football right alongside Milroe, Cam Schadoor, Jackson, all of them. You just haven't heard about him. And he's been tutored by Jeff and Brian Brohm down there in Louisville. There aren't any better quarterback tutors in college football. Wherever he goes, just
remember that name. Remember Tyler Shuck's name. He is going to surprise the entire NFL in twenty twenty five.
He's got to spell his name differently.
I think shou Gh does not sound like Shuck, does it. Yeah?
No, our quarterback Shucks. He's Lewis Riddick of the Mothership joining us and of course the the Draft A coverage continues tonight at seven Eastern. The Rookie of the Year will be Who It'll be?
Travis Hunter. He's just I said it when I was out there at his pro day. In all my years of football, I used to come up here to Green Bay. My cousin was Tim Lewis, who was drafted here in nineteen eighty three as the first round pick, the eleventh overall pick. I used to come up here and train with him in the summertime. So I was around James Lofton. I've been around Andre Reid and Buffalo and my brother
played there when James Lofton was there. I played with Jerry Rice, played against Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, all these dudes. I have never seen hand eye coordination like Travis Hunter in my life. He is, He's the natural. He's just a natural athlete. He's a natural football player, and he's
a guy who he's gonna change the game. And James Gladstone, the GM of the Jaguars, talked about that that this is a guy who's probably, when it's all said and done, is going to redefine how we evaluate football players and maybe you know, he will be the standard by which a lot of guys, especially at skill positions, are going to be are going to be judged from now on.
He's got a tremendous cardiovascular engine that I'd love to see him take one of those tests like Lance Armstrong took one of those VO two max tests, because what he did at Colorado, you're not so human beings aren't supposed to be able to do, especially not.
At altitude like to Yeah, I'm going to say that and when.
I watched him catching the ball out there at out there in Boulder. He didn't he didn't wear gloves. Everybody wears gloves nowadays, right, you know that the technology not with gloves. You just put your hand up there. It just the ball just sticks to it. He had no gloves on. And I'm telling you, Chador was humming that football and you would just hear it as if it was you were throwing that ball into a pillow. You
heard nothing. He wasn't even looking. It was just like like it was just like and all just a sudden, they're looking at My mouth just dropped open, like what is happening to me?
But you're giving all of this credit and praise? Did cleve and make a mistake.
I would have taken him if I was Cleveland, Okay, I would have taken him for a number of reasons. One, he's gonna put people in the stands. You're gonna want to go. You're gonna want to go see Travis the same way people when I played with Dion wanted to come watch Deon Sanders play. It was a show. I mean you know what that was like. Every time he touched the ball, you were like this dude's about to do something that's gonna be on Sports Center.
But Dion could have done this.
Done we played both ways. Yeah, yeah, he could have. He could have. And you know what, and Travis, Travis is not gonna play one hundred and twenty five hundred and thirty snaps combined offense defense every game. He can't do that in the NFL. You can do that in college, you can't do that in the NFL. And besides, you'll probably burn him out by about three or four years. Anyway, do you really want to do that?
To me?
It's probably gonna be like a sixty forty seventy thirty split in terms of percentage. Seventy percent offense thirty percent defense. Make sure he's on the field on all third downs, all two minute situations. Somebody has an alpha receiver, put him on him. But what on offense? Look in Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence is like, please put that guy in the field with me, him and Brian Thomas Jr. Come on, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good.
But you wouldn't You wouldn't take a wide receiver number two, and you wouldn't take a defensive back number two.
You know what. I played with Eric Turner in Cleveland, who Bill Belichick drafted number two overall ninety one. And I would take any position on offense that could produce explosive plays and put points on the board and change the game at the drop of a hat. So I would take it. I would take Ashton gent number two. Look, the games the game is about. The game is about explosive plays and how quickly can you score, how quickly can you alter the game. That's what everybody wants. And
I don't care where I get that from. Look, Aston Gensy is one of is one of one. Also, just like Travis is Ashton. I believe if he went to a place that had a regular relatively let's just say, top twelve, top ten to twelve offensive line, Aston genty I think could break Eric Dickerson's rookie Russian record. He go over eighteen hundred yards. If you see him, how he's put together, He can handle the load. It's this whether or not you're gonna give him enough opportunity to do it.
If he ran behind the Eagles offensively.
He's easy over too easily, easily, easily easily. He's not as fast as Saquan. But I'm telling you this, dude, when you see him, who would you rather have Saquon because he's a little bigger and faster, a little bit fat. Well, I mean, Saquan's four to three astions probably four four one, but they're both great people.
See the difference in four to three and four four.
I don't know you asked me to make a choice, man, but I'm just saying no.
You know what, get caught up number?
You know what's wild is like when you know when they do it at the draft when they super imposed guys running forties. You see, like the difference between four to four four four one and four three five is
like a full stride. So that's the different between a guy, you know, like like a wide receiver for instance, being even with the defensive back versus a quarterback looking at him, going he's got a full half yard to a yard of separation, I'm gonna throw it to him, or now it looks like he's even, I'm not gonna That's what it is. It's looking at a big step.
Jerry Rice ran a four to six.
You know what though, on the field and there is there is football, no question, and regular at speed. There's no question.
Just Jerry didn't get caught from behind.
Never look Jerry. I played everything with Jerry was full speed. I have so many funny stories about Jerry Rice and when we played against him. But yeah, he is. You know what else was like that if Michael Urban didn't run four four four three. But you have very, very very rarely saw anybody catching him from behind either. Now what's interesting, right, there's there's some speculation about like the wide receiver that the package draft the number one overall
Matthew Golden. Golden ran high four to two on the On the field, you look at him and go, is he really that fast? Does he look that fat? But I'll tell you now, as the season went on down there in Texas and he got more comfortable with the offense, he looked for to in the beginning of the season, he didn't. So a lot of times. You know, how a guy plays on the field versus how he times on a track is a function of how comfortable are you with the offense that you're running, How confident do
you feel. I mean, there's a lot of different things that go into that. But by the way, I love Matthew Golden by the way, and Steve Sarkisian told me, Sark told me just yesterday. Sark told me just yesterday. Wherever he goes, he is a character guy, a culture builder. He'll do exactly what you want. And he's got so much runway ahead of him. And so for the Packers that I mean, it was this perfect. It was a perfect match between this organization and him. Perfect.
It's good to see you.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for all your contributions always man, whenever we called, you were available to help make us smarter.
Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
He's Lewis Riddick of the mother Ship.
Sure to catch the live edition of The Dan Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
WAPP NFL Network Insider. He'll be part of the coverage. They start tonight seven Eastern with rounds two and Three's we make way for Tom Hella zero.
Hellas you know, I do I hug you now, No, no, no, I'm across the desk.
I'm not a hugger. You do have to have your phone out if you're an insider. It's mandatory, right.
There's literally people responding to text that I said about one am, because I think the league is just now beginning to wake up.
Where.
Okay, so the oddest place you've gotten a text or responded to a text today ever?
I mean, if you can, if you can think of it, I have done it.
Oh, I can think of it. But I don't know if pool Pool.
Say, you know, jumping out of the pool on spring break because I got a little the little ding on my Apple Watch and jumping out to tweet something pool side. That's as a fairly good one.
Okay, yeah, late late night.
Late nights, Oh, I mean absolutely. I mean getting woken up in bed because the phone starts ringing and finding out you know, the Raiders just fired their offensive coordinator at one am, and then just going all right, well, I guess I gotta deal with this now. My wife has gotten used to it. You know, it's just like, oh, what is it now? My Raiders fired? The OC? Is like again, I'm like, yes, what happens?
Take me back to yesterday at this time, what did you think was going to happen?
Km Ore was obviously going one. The question to two is were the Browns and the Jaguars going to put together that deal they'd been working on for a few days. It wasn't until a couple of hours before, though, that it started to become clear this was really happening, and the Jaguars are going up and getting Travis Hunter, you know, at three. It had been over the last several days pretty clear that the Giants were going to go with Abdual Carter and probably try to trade up for a quarterback,
which I thought was going to be Jackson Dart. I didn't know, but I thought it was Dart.
You know.
The real action I think began with obviously the trade up from five to two. But then it was when we got into the middle of the first round, because this was a draft where there just weren't that many blue chip type players and so all of a sudden when it's you know, guys are beginning to slide, when the Falcons trade back up and get a second pass rusher.
Obviously what happened with the Giants there. There weren't a lot of surprise names in Round one, but there were definitely some surprises just in terms of how aggressive teams were. How many times did you guys on this show probably talk about in a single first round pick moved. We had not only a handful of trades last night, we had two twenty twenty six first rounders change hands. So we're already way ahead of the game here.
How surprised were you should door Sanders doesn't go.
I would say this on shud or Sanders. When you talk to people in the league like I have, and the coaches and executives and gms. I listed them when I wrote my twelve thousand word quarterback story as a round one to two guy, and that's the same one as Jackson Dart, as Jayln Milroe, as Tyler Shuck. All four of those guys were kind of bunched together. In the opinion of the people within the league who had studied it, who had interviewed all these guys and done
the pro days and the private workouts. There was one quarterback who profiled as a surefire starter, and that was cam Ward. He got four other guys who were kind of on the border, and Shadeur is one of those. Listen, he was a highly productive college quarterback. We know how they turn things around from a one win team at Colorado. You know, he's very accurate, he's very tough. People love that about him. But he does not the biggest guy,
he doesn't have the biggest arm. He's not an elite athlete, which you would expect, being Dion's kid, that he would be. And so that just raises questions. When your entire game is built up this freewheeling style and every highlight is you scrambling around and throwing off your back foot and things like, there's real questions is that gonna work or is he gonna have to transition to be more of
a Drew Brees style processor. That's one of the most common comps is you know, from a size perspective, arm perspective, he's very you know, he's clearly smart, but he hasn't had to really go through progressions, you know, and so it's a learning process. And when you're talking about adjusting your game on top of obviously all the other things that have been discussed about the culture shock of him coming into an NFL building, I'm not surprised. I wouldn't
have been surprised if you went in round one. I wasn't surprised he didn't.
It's interesting that you bring up the processing. I was told the same thing yesterday, and I was told by my source that he didn't have a first round grade on him and that he wasn't going in the first round in his opinion. And he said, it's no knock on what he did in college. He was great in college, but there are a lot of guys who are great in college. And I said, can you see a comparison
between him and Baker Mayfield? Size wise, attitude wise, confident, slash cocky, And I think there is a comparison there. But we might look at what Baker does and go, yeah, but we don't like that with Shudor Sanders.
I think some of the same stuff was said about Baker Man. I recall writing that back in that draft, which was I think twenty eighteen was the Baker Mayfield Draft, and there were people who we rubbed the wrong way.
Baker had some bad interviews. I remember him going to the Senior Bowl and he was there for like half a day and people were like, we couldn't even get him in the room, and like this this guy, and remember all this stuff in college, the crops grabbing and you've tried to run away from the cops that one time and got taken down, Like there was just all this like this stuff that you were trying to deal with with him, you know, and Shure doesn't have those things.
There's not off the field concerns we should do her. He's not a party guy, like he's all football. The people you talk to like he wants to be great. I think the bigger question besides all the physical stuff I just said, is just when you've only played for your father, going all the way back from youth football through high school through college, there's a different accountability structure that comes with that. Well, Shador Sanders ever going to get benched if he had a bad game? Was he
ever going to get benched? Everybody else lives in fear of being benched. You come into an NFL locker room, You're not going to probably have as much input on who your quarterbacks coach and your ocr what plays are called, what the locker room looks like, and things like that.
You're walking into a different type of an environment. And on top of that, you know the other part of it, And I just I hate the idea of like, you know, he's sliding a there were a lot of people like you just said, who didn't have first round grades on him, but be there's so few quarterback teams. This isn't like, well, we'll take best player available, We'll take another guard. You don't go, well, best player available, we'll take another quarterback.
It's like, no, people don't do that. Last night, there were only really two spots that Shador could have gone, and that was the Giants, or was to the Steelers at twenty one. The Giants obviously had Jackson Dart graded above him, which I was pulled from a football perspective, had a lot to do with the ability of just
the layers to his game. You can run RPOs and read options and things like Theybell did with Josh Allen, like you did with Daniel Jones in Dable's first year and he was the Coach of the Year, and want a playoff game. You know, with Shador, that's just not his style of play. So they chose to go a different direction. And that's the other part of it when I mentioned all these other quarterbacks, so off the board last night, the next three, in all likelihood, in some order,
will be Shador Sanders, Jalen Milroe, and Tyler Shuck. And you could not find three more different guys out there. Tyler Shuck is like the processing guy but he's just tall. He's a pure pocket passer, decent athlete, but not a runner, and he's probably got a limited type of upside. Jalen Milroe is all upside, unbelievable runner, huge arm, just doesn't know where it's going. Can you teach him to improve the accuracy. Chador is a much more polished passer than
Jalen Millroe, but he's not the athlete. And what this goes back to is when your source is saying that to you, it's about traits. For people have to understand. With scouting, it's not just well, this guy the most passing yards. Kyle McCord would go number one if that were the case. No, it's what are the traits that project? What do you see this player? As in the NFL.
One scout told me on Shador their complice, it's like Gino Smith with a little less arm, And I think that that's probably a fairly You can argue the comparison, but I think that that's a fair way of looking at it. Which is Chadour, even though he ran around a lot in college, he was running around a throw He's not a scramble to run guy, pocket passer, and it took Gino quite a while to go from the guy at West Virginia to the one that now has had this amazing renaissance in Seattle.
In now Vegas, we're talking to Tom Pelsero, NFL Network insider. So let the audience understand what you do today with your job, as far as are you making calls about last night or making calls about tonight?
Predominantly making calls about tonight. Most of my work from last night was sending a series of texts, going to sleep and then waking up to see what people say, because I'd be on Good Morning Football at seven am today. Now the rest of today is more about it's not just okay, what's going to happen in those first few picks. Every year there's a report that probably will be one today that the team at thirty three is shopping that pick, and like two thirds of the time they don't trade it.
But that is the next selection. Hey, if you want to come up, because everybody now gets a chance to reset and get the top guy left on your board, we're open for business. You want to pay a premium to come up and get him, you can go ahead and do that. This is also now over the next really twenty four hours, the phase of the draft where any veteran players who have uncertain situations, if they're going
to be traded, it's probably gonna happen right now. So to take, for example, Trey Hendrickson, who the Bengals have wanted a first round pick if they're going to trade him, there hasn't seen to be a lot of momentum or action on that front, while they're also still having conversations about his contract. Well, if you get pass the point of even getting a two form, the second round comes
and goes. Now you're talking about twenty twenty six draft capital, which doesn't help the twenty twenty five Bengals who think that they can compete for a Super Bowl right now. And so, whether it is you know, Jalen Ramsey, whether it's some of those tight ends whose names have been out there, Dallas Goddard, Mark Andrews, if it's going to happen,
it happens now. But the other thing that you see is as the draft is going on, some of those teams, like let's say you're Howie Roseman and you're shopping Dallas Goddard and you think, all right, the Colts really need a tight end, like that's my spot. I'll get a third day pick form and then they go, hey, Tyler Warren just fell in our lap. We got our tight end. They're out of the mix, and so the pool of
teams willing to draft gets smaller. Sometimes Also, you have somebody who can drafted and you're like, huh, why'd they take that guy when they have this guy? And that's because they're ready for him to become available here over these next forty eight hours.
If the Steelers don't take a quarterback, finish that sentence, they.
Better they better hope that Aaron Rodgers decides to play. They are comfortable with Mason Rudolph if as a stopgap type of starter. I think you also have a reflection within the league right now. The twenty twenty five draft may not be good as the twenty twenty six draft for quarterbacks. Think about some of the things that already
happened in this draft. The Browns traded back, They didn't take a quarterback they could still take when they got two of the first four picks tonight, but they added a first round pick next year from the Jaguars, which gives them ammunition the Rams after trying to trade up. I believe it was for a Mecca a Buca last night they ended up bailing out.
They were looking to get the reasons.
My understanding was there were two teams that were both trying to trade up. It was the Texans and the Rams, and the moment the Bucks surprised everybody by taking a Mecca Abuka the receiver from Ohio state, the calls stopped. Those teams were calling all the teams above them, and all of a sudden the calls stopped. So that's the belief that Abuka is the guy. He goes off the board.
Rams bill out. They pick up a first round or next year, which, if Matthew Stafford continues to be a year to year again, might give you the ammunition to move on.
Is arch Manning already top of mock drafts?
I think of the early ones, but the early ones sometimes they're not an accurate reflection where we end up. Cam WARDI a year ago was a mid round draft pick. Shador Sanders was the one that everybody was talking about. You know, these things varied, but certainly I mean arts just based on you know, the lineage and the athletic ability you know Quinn Ewers is going to get drafted.
Eg.
He drafted tonight in the third round. But you know, I had one longtime assistant coach who said, like, when you go back and forth, you're watching Texas tape, if you're watching the wide receivers or whatever, you're watching a cut up, and it's like you could tell the difference when the ball is coming off Arch Manning's hand. There's a lot there. There's obviously run ability and athletic ability, which is not generally what the Mannings are asociated with.
He's going to be a top prospect, but he also hasn't been the starter because Steve Sarkisian had a great deal of loyalty to Quinn Yours, who won a lot of football games. Quin Yours is one of like the under talked about guys in this entire draft, and it has to do with the fact, much like Shador, he is smaller, he doesn't have a big arm, not an elite athlete, but very productive and efficient with what he did and won a ton of football games on a
team that went to the college football Playoff twice. They were eleven and one on the road with him as the starter. He's wanted two quarterbacks the last decade to beat Nick Saban at Alabama along with Joe Burrow. Like you'd think saying that resume, the guy would be going number one. But that goes back to the Shador Sanders question,
why isn't he going higher? Well, if his athletic profile compares much more to Quinn yours than it might even to cam Ward, that should help people understand a little more. While still on the board.
Wildest rumor you've heard.
I mean there were a few yesterday.
Now, once again not reporting.
Right, I'm trying to think what the wildest one was yesterday, because some of them came true. I mean, the Falcons coming back up for a second pass rusher was a pretty wild, wild type of a thing. Even the Jaguars trading up for Travis Hunter that seemed completely wild, and then it ended up happening. I would say, we're kind of out of the rumor area of it, but I would say this, all right, for quarterbacks today, the wilder
all right, I'll give you this one. The wildest rumor I phrases more than a rumor, But the wildest rumor is that the third quarterback off the board will not be Shdoor Sanders. It will not be Jaylen Milroe to be Tyler Schuck, who was justin Herbert's backup for two years at Oregon. That will shock a lot of people. So brace yourselves for all the talk about Shudur last night. I'm not saying this will happen, but it's entirely possible.
He's not the third, maybe not the fourth quarterback off the board.
Yeah, I know that the Steelers really like him. I was still in that yesterday, but I I'm not going to be surprised at that, but only because I had intel that somebody said, don't be surprised that this guy, this guy can play in the NFL. Even Lewis Riddick said he's a guy who could probably be a quarterback in the NFL for ten years.
Right.
So I'm like, all right.
He's one of those guys who, you know, again lacking physical traits in terms of he doesn't have the biggest arm, but he is, he's got NFL size. He was a tall guy. He does have a pretty good arm, and he's been exposed to so much. I mean, think about seven years of college football, which everyone's dreams. Seven years in college, well, other than the three major injuries. But he's been around forever and he's been exposed to all
these different systems, all these different coaches. That's why he rose up during the process, was he could sit down and whatever team he was with, he was like, oh yeah, I ran that. You know, I was twenty nineteen at Oregon, and so he's really helped himself. The one thing was shocked because he's had all those injuries that people get nervous about, and there we are a bunch of people brought this up to me, is you can see it. It's not even so much like a risk of further injury.
It's a does it impact this play when the rush is bearing down on him? Does he shy away from contract contact? Does he have a little bit of a flinch to him. That's gonna bother some people more than others. But if you're one of those people out of let's say the Shanahan McVeigh style of offense, where you just want him to see it, process it, get the football to his playmakers, you're gonna like Tyler.
Shuck, he's got first round hair. He's Tom Pelicaro NFL Network inside that, and that's really he'll absolutely at the end of the day. How's my hair look? Twenty twenty five Draft Tonight did seven Eastern on NFL Network. Thanks for joining us, Pleasure DA