Our 2025 Catcher Tier List (with Jolly Olive)

Hello, and welcome to Waken Jake tear List season. Today we are doing the backstops catchers with my catcher Jolly Olive and my catcher's catcher, Big Baby David Mendelssohn. As we break them up, rank them and split them up and Waken Jake fashion. We took a while pregaming this one because the catcher position it. I don't know, I'm interested to see where we land on a lot of guys.

Chris Rose, I'm good. I am Maurice Jones drew We're in a little bit of a Catcher's golden age right now. We kind of said that in the Shortstop tier list, and then we were doing some mock ups of our list today and there's a lot of good, right there's a lot of great. So it's gonna get kind of messy in the middle, kind of Harry in the middle. I think we know the top and the bottom, like any good relationship, and I'm excited to get started.

Okay, cancel Horny five.

This is crazy, just healthy commentary.

This is crazy.

You should know if you don't talk to your partner.

We need to know where we're going to know where we're from. We have our tears for this year, and maybe that's the teas I'll actually start with. We've started with six columns rose this time, thank you ancient Rome terminology. I think we opened up with nine last time, and I like to expand as we find different tiers that

Yeah that I didn't even notice that. But yeah, he's not their catcher and they have space this year. They have a pretty good catcher that we'll talk about.

I'm trying to see who else jumped off the board. Uh, who is the pirates catcher last year? Is that? Uh Hank Davis Henrik, I call him Hank. I don't think Christian Vasquez will make the list now, the NATO will find his way there midyear. Let's get into it with this year's list, and as you know, we like to hop around with our tier list. I do think the top has separated themselves this year, and I think it deserves to be started with that baby brow in the butt.

Yeah, we have a returning member to the top tier, and we have a new member to the top tier, and I think it's good to start with the alum, the guy that I said on my pedestal last year was the best catcher in baseball before the season. He went out there. He did it again. No one is better than William Contrera's at playing catcher right now. I still remember that initial Braves trade where they got Sean Murphy from the A's and kind of just quietly the

Yeah, and if you know, you know big cal Rally, big dumper out in the Pacific Northwest, it's pretty cool when he was like breaking home run records of Seattle Mariner's history in the past couple of seasons. Is like, you know, the only guys with thirty homer season back to barrio is cal Rally, Ken Griffrey Junior, and Frog mcgillicutt, although they don't have a ton of history, and that's part of the reason cal was in that list. But

I can't believe that either.

I'm let's not talk about that right now. But cal Rally, what he has done a behind the plate b is a switch hitter, and then five war thirty four homers.

Last year on behines as.

A catcher coming off of a thirty homer season, which was a twenty seven homer season the year previous, So the homers have jumped up the past three seasons. He will be twenty eight last year, set it and forget it. Also got MVP votes, also got a Gold Glove, So what are you looking for? And man, if this guy played in Cincinnati, if this guy played in Citizens Bank, I think we're talking about forty homer cal Rally seasons, which as a catcher, as a switch hitting catcher doesn't exist.

Yeah, Like some of these other guys, their reputation precedes them, and that's why we give them the benefit of the doubt. Some of these guys have been good, not great. These two have been great for multiple years now. They're both young, so there's reason to suspect they'll better, So I see no reason to put them anywhere else other than the tippy top of this list. I got two things on cal Rally before we move on one. I think it's crazy to think about, and I want to I don't

Wow, that's insane rhymes with jolly.

Really makes you think, how is that? You know what cal Raleigh?

You can live angry and question that, or you just say that's neat no reason to do that for the name cal Raley.

Similar profile. I was a catcher when I played. I don't know. Sometimes things just work out.

Cal Rally, with another solid season, should pass Trevor Ploof on the all time home run list. I watched the Trevor Pluf homer video this morning.

It was great. I loved it a lot. I have a great idea by mad.

He just assumed it would be asked. But he did pretty good.

I got fifty No, I got forty nine. Mike Cole beat me, he got fifty one.

Jesus, yeah right, got some names on that list. So baby browing the butter at the top. Uh. They deserve their flowers. They've received their flowers. They should receive more flowers. Al n l similar to shortstop.

Just an easy top tier.

I always get mad. I always get mad.

You live mad.

The the Contreres bros. Are so good.

It's messed up.

And like it's kind of not talked about, like it's a little bit bad us society that if these were two brothers from Des Moines, I think we would talk about it a little more. They're so good, like they're look at their hitting stats, you.

Can make that they the division. They've they've maybe surpassed the Molinas.

They're all star brother catchers.

Because the Malnas never hit.

Like that third brother that was kind of bad would actually help them.

I would need that, like just a third backup catcher who played for like eight years.

I want to say that there is a third just one. There's some baseball family that has another on the way that we were like, oh shoot, the Chario's got a couple. Anyways, congrats to William Contraras and cal Rally at the top of the leader board. Third, let's let's chip away down because I actually think this second tier MMM is easier than the pile of beef we're running into. Eventually, we

Yeah, I agree with a lot of the things he said, and I think Adley's scale is different one because he was the top pick. If he doesn't go, it's really hard.

Caffrey, what did you say, tackled McCaffrey, Oh, kickoff return?

Come on, let me know if you've seen that clip once or twice or a thousand times on social media with him, it's it's an unfair scale because really, if he doesn't go, it's hard for the Orioles to go. He is such a centerpiece of the core of that team. The thing that worries me about ADLEI is that strikeouts went up last year, walk right went way down, which is kind of a scary thing, especially for a switch

Yeah. And I again, if you're looking to kill fifty minutes at work, which you are listening to waken Jake, probably choo through Adley's numbers from last year. I mean the biggest one first righties a six thirty one ops. He's still mauled lefties, I know two. So again, is that injury, is that the pitcher's finding something out, is that the ball started rolling in the baseball gods couldn't

I love Yaner Diz. Yeah, I love Yanner Diz. He was the same guy the past two years, and that's what's kind of big for me, Like back to back heres being a three war guy, back to back years being a one to twenty oh ps plus guy. You can point at strikeouts and walks with him too, and you can get kind of concerned because he doesn't.

I didn't know the walks were like this.

Yeah, it's it's low. It's not he's not an on bass guy. But I just think catchers that can slug like that are are are few and far between, and Yiner is among the best right now. And I know it's a little unfair to some of the older guys that have been playing, but the youth factor always kind of does it for me. Like if you're doing this at twenty five, I'm excited to see what you do at twenty eight, you know what I mean, Like, I'm

Yeah, I think there's some people that might be doing a slight head till because some of the stats are down. It was an eight forty six ops a seven sixty six last year, but offense was down around baseball, so really it was only a ten point OPS plus jump. And I think you mentioned the same war and it's one hundred and four games to one hundred and forty

Will Smith, for sure. I'm just looking at his page. It's funny to think we just said jan here is gonna be twenty six. This here. Will Smith's first three worst season was at age twenty six, So I'm saying, you know, like twenty twenty always gets a little weird because he probably would have played the full year and been great that year. But Will Smith, I think it's funny, Like the idea for this tier was birth from him never getting that daisy pedal. He's never gotten a pedals, was that.

The thing might have to double check. But yeah, it's there's always just someone just been a horrible trend of like Sean Murphy was nails an amazing first half, Like it feels like he's always been like just behind.

And you gotta feel bad for the Dodgers that they don't have the best player at a position. Yeah, that's tough, Like thank you, Yeah, Like people aren't saying that now. Will Smith is like he would be the best player on so many teams, like a catcher.

That's it's in the middle of that lineup.

In the middle of the lineup, and like is a hell. Like there's you know, future Cooper's down bound dudes, and there's Will Smith backing them up and protecting them and he does a fantastic job doing it. Like he's been that dude forever. He's never been below league average offensively at any point in his career. We know what he brings defensively. They got him on that sick contract too, Like that never gets talked about, like the fact, what's

Sixty two games hitting clean up for the Los Angeles, the worst serious Los Angeles Dodgers last year, twenty eight games hitting second, and actually it was a weird year for him. Last year. He had a significant gap in the summer where I don't know if the swing was off again, I don't know if he was hurt. Baseball happens. That it's funny to see that his numbers landed where they did because he was in a funk for a while.

I'm having a tough time with Jat because we talked about a little bit before. But like the way Phillies fans talked about him, and like the injuries and stuff, you'd think that he like had a really down year last year. He's and he's entering the ending of his contract in that too, But he was still three were catch ninety nine games last year. He's still above league average offensively for the tenth year in a row. Like,

I think I want to start with him there.

I I'm cool with that.

I mean, I can't believe how good his stats are for ninety nine games he was a three war player. Again, does he get judged on a different scale at this point? Kind of do I think he has like do I think he has another summer in him? Absolutely? Not even

I was I was thinking, like fun haul Fame conversation, because the bar for it's kind of similar to closers, where like the bar for catchers is a little bit lower than some of the other positions just because of how hard it is.

And it is like theeers you're capable of putting in, like they won't become the surefire thing that like was Joe Auer, for example, who was like a fifty five war catcher.

But they're creeping up on forty and like they're still playing well. But I think that we expect guys like Adlee, will Smith and Jiner to be better next year because they are younger, because they played the position a little bit better, But they don't deserve to be on a lower like fourth mid level tier because they're still great players, Like they can still provide you a lot in your day to day line you.

Can rely on a certain amount from right.

Sally played ninety games the catcher last year. I thought he played like forty or something. I thought they were really trying to ease him back, but like, no, he's still a catcher.

And so much of why he isn't catching one hundred games. It's like, well, they just have this for mean kid. Respect him.

They're pretty good, So I'm.

Down for Like, I think we just made a new column. Yeah, and jolly you being a word Smith, I think accidentally fell into something here. I think below Daisy Hunting should be chasing forty. Yeah, age and war.

I like that a lot, chasing forty because.

If they get over forty career war for the catcher position.

I do think it's a real fun conversation if they hit it on a weak ballot or something, and like you know, there's ten votes to spread around.

Salvador. Salvador Perez had a one nineteen ops plus last year. J.

T Roummuto's contract with the Phillies is like one of the best in baseball in the past ten years.

And I again the beauty with these tier list, it's what are you talking about? Are you talking about the season? Are you talking about like for one game? I think for one game, if you had a gun to your head, why is that still the thing?

For one scenario?

For one game, if you have to pick, if you have to pick Salve or JT versus Will Smith, Jiner, depending what Adley's out there. It's an interesting It's an interesting conversation, like it kind of depends on the rest of the team. Yeah, Like if I need Big Salvi's presence in that lineup, I don't know, if I've got everything else on my team, would I rather just have JT real Mudo for a day? It's an interesting convo. Maybe not Will Smith, maybe he's getting disrespected a little

So I think that the top of this tier list is solidified in my opinion. There's a lot of great like conversations about potential with some of the other guys we're going to talk about, but none of them have done it.

Anybody's jumping into these rows, whether it's full season or it's you know, they just haven't been able to do consistently.

Like none of them breached that barrier of Salvy and JT. They feel like the they feel like the kind of gateway that you have to pass through to become an elite great catcher of the game. Sean Murphy was there in my opinion, and it was easy, like it was an easy discussion. But last year, to put it bluntly, was really bad. Like he I think held the Braves back from potentially winning the division last year because he

Oh Mets fan, job, what do you what do you mean? Do you know Sean Murphy before last year was a one to eighteen ops plus.

I don't even know what that means.

He's got a gold glove.

It was his batting average two fifty.

Yeah, okay, that boy nice enjoyer. I talk to me. Sean Murphy's already on the board there, let's leave him. I don't have proper thoughts with Sean Murphy yet because I need to circle up on who will be joining him on that row. I do think this is the part of the program where we should just get rid of trim the fat interesting. I just want to get the Austin Hedges ro done with because I do think

Clicks White Sox itis too, like maybe he yeah, like you know, it's hard to put your best production up there.

A Maya from the Cubs. Is he going to be in a different conversation? I don't. I don't thinks so my heartstrings. Is he getting hurt that there's another Amaya in the league right now?

Who's the other Amaya?

There's a Jacob Amaya.

Oh, tp legend, negative war last year, tough, not.

What you was, just kind of a block god.

He is a block god. Doesn't really do anything else.

It's just blocking. Amaya had an eighty two opus place in the dirt. That's that's fine, Kybert Kybert.

Yeah, So my original thing, like I didn't have this named Austin Hedges. I had this named I Wish you were Austin because Kyberd is not Austin Hedges. This whole thing is that he's very limited defensively and his paycheck is kind of fat because they did the whole early extension thing when everybody was doing that with their young players.

Yes, but it's also ignoring that Keibert Luiz can do some things offensively, Like it's it's just a scope of it. Kebert Ruiz for catchers, and dude, he's still young. He's gonna be twenty six this year.

Right.

He has forty two homers in the show, like.

My thing that I get scared with is like Dodger's prospects.

Sure they get scary, it does, but I also think just hasn't happened yet enough to.

Do you want to move help?

He had no he had some horrific defensive numbers that I think he actually addressed last year decently. That Okay, maybe he was in the lab and that was his focus all year and that's why the offense fell off. Could I see a twenty six year old that's got some serious MLB experience, Like if he hits a little above his career numbers next year, you're going to see him on the middle of the board. Yeah, so I

Numbers aren't even that good?

Campusano fell off last year, had a tough year him and Elized Diaz. I don't know, let's just put him at the bottom and forget it for real.

I feel like he.

Is I mean, he's a top prospect, but it was bad.

Well what's what's our? What's our? Yeah, it was pretty bad. Or tier above that is supposed to be. It's complicated, not in a good way, right, Like.

Not excited about it. Yes, but I think there's gonna be guys that they can say, like, hey, I if we're ignoring everything except former top prospect ranking, me and Campusano should not be on.

This line O fifty games.

Let's see.

We'll see.

Let's see, let's.

Get to the more important conversation.

Does anyone else jump out? I feel like if Campusano's down there, that's kind of where bow Nailor belongs. And I sort of had both of them in my head and that next group before they very well go. I mean Bo Naylor's Billan Naylor's last year was tough, seventy three oh ps plus. I mean both are kind of prospects. We know Bo Naylor's brother, but still young.

I think I have them above that bottom tier.

Caampusano negative career war. Yes, how about it. I'm gonna take Campusano off the board for now. Is there anyone else that's an automatic bottom row?

I don't think so.

No. Good, Okay, we trimmed that fat. Let's jump up to the good, Averri Levine. It's two thousand and two. Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated? Yeah? Yeah? What was the other? Like? Hits Skater point.

In two thousand and two? I was obsessed with Thomas the tank Engine. I would our pop culture was different?

Okay, Well, Avri Levine moved the needle. You know what I'm saying. She's popular, Okay, populer that wicked. I have a first name I think i'd suggest in here, okay, Tyler Stevenson. Tyler Stevenson is an interesting case of things and stuff. Not to get too analytical on you. Hey, you want that, you want that prospect part of the resume. He was there. You want a history of hitting at different points. Twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, he hit

Yeah, he's he feels like the kind of guy where every year someone picks him is like, this dude is going to shock people this year, and we've all kind of been waiting for it because he has been good for a long time now. Tyler Stevenson has been a good catcher for five years. And I think that with him, it's like, you know what he brings defensively, you know what he can do offensively that it's like, well why

It feels a little uncomfortable.

But like when you look at the numbers, it's not that far apart. Like Sean Murphy's peaks are definitely higher, but his value was a lot lower. And like Tyer Stevenson's just kind of been steady Eddy for the Reds for five years.

That's where I guess I've been mentally putting together this Avri Levine two thousand and two complicated row, and I think that the company that Sean Murphy's gonna keep is very rude to Sean Murphy, where all these other guys are gonna have a very similar feeling, like the name that I have to put up on the board because the comments have already been angry and mentioned him is Patrick Bailey because defensively, I mean, I don't know if

Though, Yeah, we're gonna need BBD input on this one. I firmly disagree that he belongs with those other two. I have a couple catchers that I have ahead of him in this regard because they maybe do they do less defense. Everyone on this list pretty much does less defensively than Patrick Bailey, but offense matters. Consistency matters, and Patrick Bailey hasn't demonstrated that yet. I think he's got a little bit of a strikeout problem in twenty twenty

I have Gabby on this line maybe, and maybe that's how this can continue, because the company you keep I have Logan Ohappy on this line. That's where I have him had tilt.

I I have him here too. It's weird the his numbers last year didn't land in the place so that I thought they would like before.

I think when he came back end of the year. It's let's check out his months. Think there's Patrick Bailey split page is a wild look. He had an incredible first half.

Horrible August. That's what hit a He hit below one hundred in August.

Right, that's Pastrick Bailey is one of those months. So that's just where I want to.

Of that with him.

That's crazy.

I haven't I have him in hopeer note because you hope that he can hit abovely gaverage because if he does, he instantly enters the conversation of getting above guys like j T and Salvey Bailey or OPI Bailey. Oh, I think we know he can hit defensively. I think he's a little bit more limited than the other guys.

I like what I see.

Yeah, I mean I test that point. Nice, sure, you know, come on alright with that.

Uh.

Bailey is in a hoper note for me because he has the chance to be the biggest jump on this list when we do it again next year. If we do it again, common down below if you like the tearless. But I can't put a dude that's never been above the average offensively any higher than that, because you know there's plenty of guys you can point to that are great defenders and below league gaverage hitters at the catching position.

Everything's been heard.

It's an interesting combo.

It's that's what you ask for interesting. And I do have a little bit of Pirates fan. Pirates fans, well talk about them in a second, Giants fans getting loud about their guy that I think there's there's Giants fans that think Patrick Bailey has a conversation for best catcher in the game.

And I think that conversation is there if he has that that full season where he hits.

And I think those people were saying that in Patrick Bailey's first half last year when he was two eighty three three point fifty four seven eighty four ops. Patrick Bailey doing that, Yeah, he would have a conversation. The problem is in the second half he was one seventy two seventeen on base a lower slug to sixteen. He was a four to thirty four ops for the second

I'm just one final point. I don't want a dog pile on Patrick Bailey. I don't want to. That's not because he's a very exciting player, and he's you know, he's torched my team a couple of times, so I got some buy. Sure. Another catcher who is defensively gifted, who had a seven sixty ops in the first half and then tailed off in the second half is Freddy for me, who is relatively the same age, brings similar

I think it's fair. I think it's fair. I love the defense, I think the position should probably be judged a little differently, But after seeing that second half, I mean, that's you know, this is kind of the Okay, pirates fans, I told you to turn your ears on. I'm sorry because this isn't what I expected. Oh boy, Patrick Bailey has a little key Brian Hayes vibes right now. Everyone was like, oh dude, key Brian's the future, He's the best,

Kee Broyan kind of hurt me.

There's a lot of there's a lot more negative than positive that Hey, plain, Pat, give us that first half for a whole year and it changes the whole conver station. But you haven't done that.

He Brian had the full year too, twenty three four and a half, four player kind of bubbly gabbage opie, Like, that's all I need from Patrick Bailey though.

Right right, That's just that's why Brian got love. It was just tricky with other certain space man.

They don't need him to be a great hitter. They just need him to be, you know, a bat in the lineup.

That's it, is there anyone? I'm trying to think of this as an honest almost like taking a step back from stats for a second. I'm I'm building a video game team and it's like, Okay, Tyler Stevenson, Sure, I'm putting him middle bottom of the lineup, and I know what I'm gonna get Gavin Moreno, hey, verse lefties, move him up in the lineup, right. He's not so much o happy? Kind of the same, does anyone Shy Angeliers?

I think there's something interesting conversations here.

Schel Angeliers I think has an argument. Brian Jeffers kind of does, but for some reason he's not sexy.

So here, let me here's how with your catcher here. Yeah, well, this is kind of going to go into what I'm about to say, of like the way I'm viewing av Olivie in two thousand and two, which is a funny sentence, is the guys with resumes, the guys that have been up for a few years, that have done it for a few years, that have had great seasons in the past, that you say, it's kind of complicated the way I view them.

Where So, I guess the only thing I want to twist on that is I just think there's a general excitement that's different between these guys. In the next two.

Columns, I have a lot of guys I'm excited for in Hoper and Nope.

Sure, Hope and Nope feels more negative than I think the guys that are slated to OK. I guess there's an excitement factor a little bit, and there's a floor factor. Yeah, and maybe that's more of the distal.

I think that's where the excitement comes from. Don't We don't know what the floor and ceiling are yet with a lot of these guys. Whereas so that Alvarez, No, because I don't I don't know how bad or good Alvi can become. Alvi has played discipline issues, Alvi had a really bad stretch in the middle of the year, But then you see what he can do and you get excited.

So that's hope, No, I guess that's what I'm he's hope no. Yeah.

In the same way with Austin Wells, where they're young, you get excited about what they can be. Like I think a lot of Yankees fans are thinking Austin Wells can be a massive part of the twenty twenty five team, or he can be the same due that he was last year, and that's still okay, but you want him to be more right. And there's a lot of guys that I think fall in that tier as well. The one guy that I have above it and feel free to,

Yeah, I'm I'm struggling with that a little bit, because twenty twenty two is the outlier, and the last two years are pretty eerily similar. Again, like you mentioned with age, I guess it gets tricky for me, like and this is where it's interesting with the New York goggles on, Like Alvarez gets me pretty hyped, and I know it feels like there's a lot more in there. And he's still so young. How old is he?

He's young. I thinks maybe the youngest catcher on this list to be considered a starter. I think he's twenty. He was twenty two last year. It's gonna be twenty three this year.

Austin Wells was really good for a lot of the season. Austin Wells ran out of steam and I think it was his first year fully catching. This is a guy they didn't know if he'd stick at catcher. That he had a really tough September. If you if September never happened, the season ended August that game, the season ended August thirty. First, here's Austin Wells stat line two fifty nine three forty eight A seven ninety five. Ohps.

It's very good.

Former first round pick. The question when he was coming up was his defense, and he passed everyone's eye test. He was very solid best the year. He ended up becoming the defensive catcher over Jose Travino, who has a player glove in the bag. But his arm was in a funky spot last year, so that's a little bit of an outlier. So the the thing with Austin Wells that we've discussed a lot at this point, it was a bookend. The bookends were bad. He had a tough April,

I think what we've learned is we need a new tier. We need something above Hope or note below aver In two thousand and two, or maybe above both of them, because I don't I don't have complicated feelings about Welles or Alvarez. I'm just excited for them, you know what I mean? Right, whereas like Hope or Nope and Ava Levine two thousand and two kind of have its complicated

I guess, yeah, I guess what's hitting me in the face right now? Like you mentioned Bailey, everything we talked about, what's it the troll? Is that as the troll Austin Wells, Alejandro Kirk, Joey Barton not right now?

Pale sample size is gonna be yeah, young and really hit last year.

Ifelie he feels like with the news, he's more than a lot of these guys.

He was a first round pick by the Braves. He was a big, big part of that trade.

What do he finished with twenty nine homers?

Nine homers a one to eleven ops plus and he's gonna be twenty seven, you'll be p It's tough, yeah, but he's he's a slug catcher. He's kind of like diet Yeiner Diaz a little bit. In my mind. It's four point fifty as a catcher. That's really good. So we need a new I think we need a new tier above Hope and up and below Avril Lavine two thousand and two, and I kind of like twenty twenty six days even thing. I'd be opened to something else.

Very okay, So this Patrick Bailey, Bailey.

The New York Boys, and Shay New York and maybe Logan o'happy.

I think, Ohopy, Yeah, how far is Gabby Moreno from o'happy? I guess that's what I don't know.

I have him decently above.

He has I think.

Two oh Hobby has never had a little bit. Moreno had a four war year at age twenty four as a catcher.

In ninety seven games. He's on a pretty similar pace last year. So okay that that feels.

I think he's firmly up there with the other two.

So Gabby Stevenson and Sean Murphy currently in a roll yep interesting.

Lands in it. It visually looks weird, and then when you take ten minutes to think it through, I think it makes sense.

Alejandro Kirk, I think he's with the Fellas. I think he's I know that four war I know that four war seasons.

And maybe he's hope or nope, I don't know. We're kind of getting favor with him though.

If he doesn't do it, it's it's no, like you're.

He is Nope. That's three below average seasons in a row.

When you said that he was kind of the same guy the past two years, that ring true in my head of like, oh yeah, he had the same year two years in a row.

Yeah, but it was also very young. That was his age twenty five season. It was a two war year as the best framer, like.

I put them, we can put him with the young cats. Why not? He is he is a young cat.

He is a young cat. A couple of trolls in there.

Like it's in there somewhere, tiers.

If I'm a Red Sox fan, I'm screaming Connor Wong should be with them.

I can't.

I can feel right.

I can't even think about that.

It feels a little weird. But Connor Wong was very good last year.

But he's gonna be twenty nine. Okay, I have him in Hoper Nope.

Okay, Well, let's start really sending some darts here.

Yeah.

I think that's right.

This new tier has made it a lot easier for me. I needed a separator.

I don't think you're gonna like this. I think jonah Heim is Hoper.

Nope, I can agree with that. Ye yeah, I can agree with that too. He was one of the more interesting ones to talk about because you zoom out and you say, well, this dude was a switching and catcher with near twenty home runs who hit in the middle of the lineup on a World Series winning team and showed up in the playoffs, And then you look at everything around that year, which is essentially three full seasons

Yeah, I guess. And maybe something that can help me deal with these themes a little better is like, if you were bad last year, that you should feel that. Sure, Sean Murphy was.

Really bad, that's why he moved down something.

A lot of good Sean Murphy in my head. And again, oh bleak. Injury can be brutal for a baseball player, that there can be egg on the face, but it sometimes baseball also happens the other way that.

Okay, So how I'm rationalizing that tier is if they are good to great next year, I'm not that surprised, like, you know what they're capable of, Sean Murphy, Stephenson, Gabby, the young guys below. If they're great next year, it's like, wow, they did it, Like they're they have become a great catcher with Alvarez and Wells and those cow Bailey great example of like he did it. He's a hitter.

Now, it's that league average offensive season.

It's more of a surprise if those guys do it.

Okay. So Langelier's is with all the young the young cats row, Yeah, I don't think he should be with Stevenson Murphy, and Gabby who he might be if he played on a different team.

But last year that's the first good year.

Yeah yeah, okay, okay, okay, hope or nope, where's Ivan Herrera go? His offensive stats are actually pretty nice see up there too, I think so. I think there's questions about his defense, but his offensive profile at age twenty four is really nice. So I have no qualms with it.

If the Cardinals ended up a good team last year, that would have been one of the cooler stories of Like, they signed this catcher to a massive deal, they immediately move him off the position, and then they just found another young catcher who stepped in and was great offensively at least that. Yeah, give him a full season, see

I have good news and bad news. I just looked at Jake Rogers stat page, and unfortunately he is the bottom line. I love I mustache and some playoff moments. Jake Rogers on the bottom.

Line, damn it. Well, he had a damn it.

I'm sorry. He could like a likable guy, but I think I have a fairly easy hope or nope. I think that's where I want to put Joey Bart. He did a good year. You can get excited, but if it doesn't. If you're a Pirates fan, you are a little jazzed up about it. But if he doesn't do it, then it's like, all right, we're back to where we.

Were a year ago.

That's fine. He went nuts. He went nuts this year and it was fun.

I think I'm with you because it's it's less than it's half a year Sadie Games. We spent four years waiting for him to become the successor to Buster Posey. It never happened. It felt like a nope, And now he's given you back the hope a little bit. But there's also a world where he comes out and he has a bad April in the Pirates are like, all right, shit, we gotta figure something out of Catcher.

I want to finish placing the names because he has a twenty twenty five Avril Levine. It's complicated. I mean, Bart could have that in spades. He could also be Hoper Nope, because change of scenery is a real thing. He's a number two overall pick.

Is that just one tier?

Hope? Nope? And Avril Levine?

Is that just one tier?

Where's Ryan Jeffers. That's one I've been trying to figure out. I think he's Hope and Nope, and it's actually fair. For now, I'm interested. I'm interested in bringing them together. Ryan Jeffers he had a paller twenty twenty three. He had a fine year last year, but like this year is actually the season where it's like, can you bank on Ryan Jeffers being your starting catcher or no? Or is he just a lefty masher And that's a fine role to be in the last two years.

He is a tough one to play.

He said, years are kind of nice. Last year's month by month, it's like three awesome months.

He was five war based in twenty twenty three, which, like three of these guys in the list have done right pace, not full season, but still.

He's weird, right, really weird. I'm fine putting him next to Jonah him for now, like I think that's I think that's okay. I think that's okay. Danny Jansen him below O'Connor.

Wong's kind of tough. I have them on the same road right now, Jeffers or Jansen.

Jeffers I have on the same Jansen. I believe we're slating in below. Jansen's gotta be yeah, I think so. I think he is. It's complicated and it's not exciting. He's kind of I think he's kind of the quintessential. It's complicated.

Twenty twelve. He might hit, he might.

If he does, he'll have his scootery. Like at one point he just made the turn like I'm gonna try to hit home runs and he kind of can't.

Yeah, so that's fair that that works.

Okay, So now the only two names I don't have on the board are Bo Naylor and Luis Campusano. Who did he play Stallings? Oh? I have him in twenty twenty five averl Aves.

Yeah, that got weird. Why why was he so good last year?

Old? But he's nasty now, I don't Sometimes catchers just do this. He like won the Gold Glove with Pittsburgh and that was cool. He went to Miami and was a disaster.

I mean he was so bad offensively, and then he went to Colorado.

Right which there's some connotations with that, right, and it's all due respect to Jacob's songs like cool, Awesome, Happier Here You're not on the bottom road.

Dude, did he sign somewhere?

I think there was a time in Jago Rocks. Yeah, there was a time in Jacob Stalling's career. I think he was hoping to be on the bottom row and be on the list and he is not. That gold glove pirates here is at thirty one. He was hoping he's on the second row.

So it's a good contract.

You're missed right now.

I just I didn't James Staling's. It's just another case of the Rockies did something good and why can't they do more good things?

That's for another day. Campusano Bowl Nadler seeing all these other names on the board.

Is campus on at the bottom?

Hey man, I like a good profile. I like. I think it's bad, dude.

I think he's at the bottom.

Like I. And this was one where is Elias Diaz gonna win the job from him?

I don't. I don't think that's a crazy thing to say.

He's twenty six ninety career ops. But there's your outlier forty nine games, yeah, I think he's at the bottom.

I think he's at the bottom, and I.

Think Bo is too. I think if we didn't know his brother.

That's an interesting if Bo had a different last name, how we feel about.

Him if we just knew him as bow Bo's story at well, it'll be too attacked. At the top of the list.

Good in twenty twenty three, he was bad, he was bading bad. Last year's I have him above the bottom tier if you've if you've shown me anything, I have you above the bottom tier.

Is he that different than Campusano though?

I think so. His offensive ceiling was higher. He played with I don't know. He wasn't a platoon, right, was.

He last year?

Either of the years?

I mean last year he played one hundred and twenty three games, So.

I think he has that going for him. Camposano should have been better because he was a platoon and he wasn't.

Jiggy Higgey mode though Higgy mode, I don't know.

I don't feel that passionately about it. If you want to put them bottom too, I'm not gonna die on that hole.

Let's put it into my head. It feels like they should be twenty twenty five, but because it's kind of like a little bit.

But it has a chance to look really bad. It's my only thing. It has a chance to look terrible. If he's the bottom Tierny ends up being you know, the pace that he was on in twenty twenty three.

I guess here's the situation we found ourselves in. We think their fans have talked themselves into those two. We like ourselves at the top of the board.

Oh I love our first four tiers.

Perfect big Dumper, Adley Yiner and Will Smith. On the second tier, JT and Salvey paired together is beautiful. That's artwork, yep, Avril Levine two thousand and two. It's complicated. Sean Murphy again hit hard for last year, but like, I think that's the one that could hurt us the most currently, but we will see Stephenson and Gabby kind of looking

Can I counter in this negotiation?

Yeah?

Fine with the split. Move Jeffers up to twenty six days.

Really you want him with the kids? You think Jeffer's got some in there? He might.

I think he does.

He does, He does feel like he can. You can guarantee a little more from him than these guys. I guess where I'm getting tripped up, which is somewhere you started. Jonaheim was bad last year. It's tough because if you were building a team and I said, hey, would you rather have jonah Heim or Ryan Jeffers, the instinct is to jump to Jonahi right the name value switch hitting Well, Ryan Jeffers has been good. You think you're right Pegs Runners, I.

Think I think he does. I don't think it's a disservice to him because he got leaned on for the Twins last year. He was their best hitter, He was their three hitter for a while. Trav was singing his praises every week.

He's getting some like lead off against lefty days.

Yeah, like they kind of you know, they put a lot was put on him, So you're right, and when him was good, not a lot was put on him. That was a deep lineup where he was protected. Yeah, Jeffers was not protected either last year.

Is going to be protected next year?

Yeah?

Probably? What's in my head? Yeah, So are we willing to put Jonaheim and Connor Wong in the same row as Stallings, Bart and Jansen?

No? I think I think we keep it separate. I think that's fine.

Okay, so we basically the only thing left to do is rename the kids line and yeah, you've been going twenty twenty six days.

Yeah, I'm not married to it. I can talk.

That was kind of just a place on the starting point.

Yeah, I don't know what's accurate.

God, because they're they're all.

They're all young.

Is this they're all young? And Jeffers now.

Yeah, Jeffers is the exception, But I think he is.

This a Twitter fight.

It's because people are gonna get really mad at Bail a little bit. People are get really mad at Bailey being there.

At Bailey.

I still think it's fair that.

I'm getting I've been getting in in Austin Wells fights.

I've gotten an Alvarez fight before.

I think it's Twitter fights for good reason.

Angels fans love o Hoppy James fans love Kirk.

Twitter fights for good reason. I can see why you would love your guy like that was the other reason that we started doing the tearless. It was because you watch your guy every day and you go, that guy's the best. I love that guy. That to actually lay him out on a neutral field, well, this guy might be better. That's perfect, And I could see why would you why you would Twitter fight for any of these guys. But you can't really elevate him above the others unless

The way I look at Bailey is there's one guy on that eight man tier that has never been abovely garbage offensively. It's Bailey.

It's Bailey, and it's Patrick Bailey. Okay, So it seems like the final tears Baby Brow in the Butt, Daisy Hunting Chasing forty Avril Levine, two thousand and two Twitter fights for a good reason, hope or nope? Avril Levine, twenty twenty five. It's complicated. Austin hedges at the bottom of the category. Yeah, I guess if there was one thing I could could tweak, I think I would put Sean Murphy with real Mudo and Salvey. But the way the tears are laid out.

He's not chasing forty.

He's not, he's not has been. There's there's different ways you can chop up his resume that he has the wand for this year. Yeah, and he can change it, and he can he can make us feel foolish, and I do hope you're right, jolly. I hope that Campusano or Naylor, one of them, one of them makes us be like, well, that's right. They had a they had the profile, they were young. It came together. But you gotta do it to do it. So any final.

Thoughts, I'd still move Bo up from the bottom tier.

You can do that on your own time. Thank you for joining us for the Catcher Tier. List enjoy it. What did you like? What did you hate? Please comment below, Please subscribe, Share with a friend and tell them about BBD's uncle Dan looking Jak's production of Dan Patrick Productions, Jomplei Media and Workhouse Media. Thanks Jolly