I'm Anna Martin, the host of the Modern Love Podcast. In every episode into an intimate corner of someone's life and learn about what love means to them. You know, I can tell you, 35 years... time with anyone else either. Listen to Modern Love wherever you get your podcasts. From the New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams, and this is The Daily News.
President Donald Trump is in the Middle East on the first major international trip of his second term. And at the same time, a firestorm has erupted over his plan to accept a $400 million luxury airplane from the Qatari government. My colleague Maggie Haberman explains why, to many people, this free plane is problematic. And it's not just because of the precedent it sets, but also what Qatar might expect.
It's Wednesday, May 14. Donald Trump is set to accept a very pricey gift from the royal family of Qatar, taking delivery of a Boeing 747 that will be used as Air Force One. President Trump says the U.S. government is poised to accept an airplane from Qatar valued at nearly $400 million. A super luxury Boeing jumbo jet from the royal family of Qatar. The very lavish gift is raising substantial ethical and legal. Maggie, I have been seeing all of these stories.
having to do something with a plane and President Trump and Qatar, and can you just tell us what is going on? Sure. So, first of all, thanks for having me, Rachel. It's great to be here with you. It is great to be here with you. What's going on here is that President Trump... plans and has been very clear that he plans to accept a plane that he indicated is going to be donated by the Qataris for him to fly around on as a new
Air Force One. And this is a luxury plane worth about $400 million, decked out on the interiors, used by the royal family in Qatar. It has caused an enormous amount of outrage. This is not just naked corruption. It is also a grave national security threat. Explain that outrage a little bit. What's the reaction been? So Democrats have been very vocal that they think this is essentially some form of a payoff to the president. And what people will now see is the most powerful man on earth.
flying around in a plane paid for by a foreign government. We can't have our president or anyone else being influenced by foreign government gifts. It's disgusting. And it's outrageous and unacceptable. It's wildly corrupt. Because, as the editorial page of the New York Post said, it's hard to imagine that officials in Qatar think that they are doing this. just to be nice. And it's hard to know what exactly they might want in return.
I imagine the government of Qatar would expect a return on this investment in the President of the United States. So this is ridiculous to think that he can take this airplane. Most Republican elected officials have been pretty muted. There have been a few who have commented. Well, what I'm concerned is in the safety of the president. I mean, Qatar's not, in my opinion, a great ally. I mean, they support him a lot. It's worth the investment here in this country.
to build a big, beautiful job here in the United States. But really there has been a pretty strong reaction from some... conservative Republican MAGA influencers, whatever bucket you want to put them in, who are normally pretty aligned with President Trump and who have said that this is not exactly draining the swamp, as he said he would. Taking sacks of goodies from people who support Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Jazeera, all the rest.
That's not America first. Like, please define America first in a way that says you should take sacks of cash Basically, the people that are really concerned about this are worried that it's like a flying bribe or something. Yeah, exactly. A flying bribe is precisely how I think they would put it, even though I know that the...
the White House would say that that is not what it is, and President Trump got very angry at the suggestion that there could be an appearance of impropriety about this. He also said, Rachel, that he won't continue flying on it when he leaves office. And just to be clear, if this is a straight-up gift from a foreign state, is that prohibited by any rules? That's a great question. A straight-up gift.
to an elected official by a foreign government is generally not allowed and needs to be approved by Congress. The way in which this might work Sounds like it would be as a donation to the Defense Department, which is not totally unheard of, although certainly not under this kind of circumstance. And then it would be donated in some way or turned over in some way to President Trump's presidential library right before he leaves office. But it is going to raise all kinds of questions.
I, unlike you Maggie, do not know much about Air Force One. In a normal world, how does a plane become an Air Force One plane? In a normal world, and for a while in this world, a new Air Force One is commissioned by the presidential administration, by a major airplane maker. It's been Boeing, and there is a contract that is active. with Boeing for two new Air Force Ones. And these planes are commissioned specifically for this purpose.
They get built out for this purpose, and they get fitted with certain systems that only exist for this purpose. Okay, but if we already have an Air Force One, why is President Trump even entertaining the idea of getting a new Air Force One? So the back story here is that Donald Trump for starters is very obsessed with airplanes and obsessed with the way things look this Boeing 757 is asleep
Narrow-bodied, long-legged beauty. And she's treated like the celebrity who owns her. This is Donald Trump's private jet. I'm going 757 and obsessed with airplanes as a status symbol. That's the big thing for him. One of the things very important to me on the Boeing 757 was the Rolls Royce engines. They're special. He has owned planes of his own. Planes outfitted with a full bar, entertainment system, iPod docking system, and how can we forget? 24 karat gold trimming.
President Trump is flying around on two more than 30 years old, I think almost 40 year old, Air Force Ones that were commissioned from Boeing a very long time ago. I said, how old is Air Force One? They are not in great shape. So Air Force One is a very old plane. It's beautiful, but it's an old 747. They're pretty janky. But it's 30 years. Can you believe it?
So I said, so what's going on? The interiors are not especially nice. But no administration, Obama, Bush, they didn't want to do it because it sounds luxury. But at some point you've got to buy a plane for the country. I mean, they're certainly nicer than a commercial airplane, but they're not, you know, what you might see on, say, a Qatari luxury jet.
I'm picturing like ripped cushions. There's no there's no ripped cushions, but there it looks like you were getting into I'm trying to think how to describe this if you were getting into like What was a really nice leather interior in the 1990s? And I'm good at aeroplanes, okay?
that's a great word and the planes themselves are enormous and they have a lot of fuel on them so they shudder when they take off oh that must feel great it's wonderful especially for those of us afraid of flying and they really like heave to get into the air. And this has always irritated Trump that this is
sort of a bit of a janky plane or two planes that need constant servicing and are old and are not, you know, sleek and streamlined. And so Trump renegotiated existing contracts that President Obama had signed, actually. when President Trump was in office the first time for two new Air Force Ones that were being commissioned by Boeing. And Boeing, which is making them, has obviously had all kinds of struggles.
And here we are now where the planes are very delayed and they are, as of now, still not likely to be ready while President Trump is in office, which is very irritating to him. He has been very frustrated that he would not get to fly on the Air Force Ones that he renegotiated the contracts for last time. He wanted to fly around on these new planes.
And so he has been looking at ways, including asking Elon Musk to help him get something done faster, where he could have a new Air Force One in the next year and a half, possibly even by the end of the year. And that is how this Qatari plane was turned to as an option. Why the Qataris? Why this plane? Why from them?
So Trump toured this plane in February when it was parked at the Palm Beach International Airport, and he... clearly really liked it this is a plane the qatari plane that has very lavish interiors so it's really not going to require a lot of work there
It would obviously need some kind of equipment upgrades and it would need to be militarized. And there are some security concerns here about having a Qatari plane and whether there would be any kind of a bugging or spying or so forth. I know that that's a concern that a lot of officials have raised.
But at the end of the day, it is a much prettier plane than the ones he's flying on right now. And that's why we're here. I want to break down a little bit what you said about the things that need to happen to the Qatari planes in order for them to become Air Force One planes. So like... The militarization of the planes, what does that mean? So Air Force One has to be able to survive a nuclear blast. It has to be able to evade certain missiles that are shot at it. It has to operate.
as a traveling command center for a president in wartime. Don't forget, President George W. Bush was famously in the air, you know, basically as a mobile White House after 9-11. And that is where he was. monitoring the aftermath of the attacks and he was issuing directives. So Air Force One has to be equipped to do all kinds of things and it has to have certain secure communication systems and the hope would be to have it done by the end of the year.
Is that realistic? A lot of defense experts have told us not really. That is what they have been looking at. And it seems as of now as if they Hi, this is Laurie Lebovich, editor of Well at the New York Times. There's a lot of misinformation in the health and wellness space, but at the New York Times, no matter what the topic, we apply the same journalistic standards to everything we write about.
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so that you can make great decisions about your physical health and your mental health. We take our reporting extra seriously because we know New York Times subscribers are counting on us. If you already subscribed, thank you. Go to NYTimes.com slash subscribe. So Maggie, this is
proposed gift for this plane. What do we know about the terms? Very little. It's all notional right now because the administration has not released whatever legal analysis that they say they have done. But what we know of and what we're told is that Attorney General Pam Bondi, who we should note was a lobbyist.
for qatar prior to becoming the attorney general but putting that aside she and the white house counsel david warrington decided that it was legally permissible for the Defense Department to get this donated plane and then for that plane to be turned over. to the Trump Library just before he leaves office. The model that has been cited to us is the donation to the Reagan Presidential Library of the 707 plane that...
President Reagan flew around in when it was retired and decommissioned. Okay, so the idea here being that like The Qataris would not be donating it to him. They would be donating it to the Department of Defense. And then after Trump leaves office, the plane doesn't go to him. It goes to his library. So it's still not going to him. And therefore, it's more kosher.
is that the idea that's the idea I mean it seems as if based on what we've been told by the administration they are taking two separate concepts one is that it is permissible in the past to donate an aircraft to the Department of Defense and then separately the Reagan Library had This retired plane that President Reagan had flown around on, that plane is on display at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. I've toured it.
Hard to imagine that President Trump would not like to hang on to this plane for personal use himself. Who wouldn't? It's much nicer than his own. He said on Monday that he is not going to keep flying around in it, but I know that most people who have some visibility into this process are a bit skeptical of that. Okay, whether or not he actually... keeps his plane for his personal use what it seems like is that the sitting president of the u.s
just got or will get or is negotiating to get a 400 million dollar plane for free. A plane that the US would otherwise be paying a United States company to manufacture and retrofit. And it just seems like it's hard to think of this as anything other than a gift. Even if they've technically donated it to the Department of Defense? Yeah, look, this doesn't match any kind of Department of Defense donation that I'm aware of in the past. I am willing to be shown wrong, but I don't know of that.
The military would have to retrofit any plane that it acquired that was not built from scratch as in Air Force One. But the bigger issue is, again, that this is the royal family of a country that... I just want to also point out that Trump... accused of sponsoring terrorism at the highest levels, I think those were his words, in 2017, and encouraged a blockade of. And that blockade ended in 2021 just as he was leaving office, but now it is acceptable for him in his mind.
to accept this donation. I don't know what this ends up legally looking like. I do know that if President Biden had done the same thing, the outrage from Republicans would have been as loud as the outrage from Democrats is now.
Do we have any idea what might be in it for the Qataris to do this? That's the question. I mean, we don't know. The president said something. It was almost as if he's thinking of this as some kind of a return on investment, which was, you know, will we provide security for them? I don't think there's a mutual defense treaty, but there is a very large US military base. in Qatar and there has been a strategic alliance. But that was the question he was asked by the ABC News reporter on Monday.
Has Cutter asked for anything in exchange for that $400 million luxury jumbo jet? And how can the American people be so sure that they will not in the future? She asked him, you know, can you assure the American people that Qatar is not looking for something in return and I think Qatar who Really, we've helped them a lot over the years in terms of security and safety. You didn't really answer it other than just saying, you know, they want to do this. I think that was a very nice gesture.
I could be a stupid person and say, oh no, we don't want a free plane. And that somebody would be, quote unquote, stupid to turn down such a free gift. As a businessman, some people may look at this and say, have you ever been given a gift worth millions of dollars and then not received anything? It's not a gift to me. It's a gift to the Department of Defense. And you should know better.
What Qatar could want in exchange? I don't know, but I know that that question is going to come up a lot if this gift goes through. I understand that we don't actually know what they want now or maybe would want in the future, but...
Could you just, Maggie, tick through the relationships between Trump world and Qatar? You mentioned Pam Bondi. What else do we know? It's a good question. And look, there's a very long history of... US officials not just in the Trump administration lobbying on behalf of Mideast countries there are however a lot of Qatari connections so
Jared Kushner, President Trump's son-in-law, who's not in the administration now, but whose work in the past administration was beneficial to him in private business. runs an investment fund that has Saudi investments and also has Qatari investments. And that's one connection. Steve Whitcoff, Trump's special envoy, who works a lot in the Mideast.
is a private businessman with work involving Qataris. The Trump company is building a golf course, I believe, in Qatar. So there are a lot of entanglements, there's no question. Maggie, as you almost certainly know, Trump is currently in the Middle East on, I think this is his first major trip since coming back into the White House for a second term.
One of the stops that he's on is to Qatar, and it's notable where he's not going, which is Israel, despite the fact that the biggest conflict in the Middle East is in Gaza, obviously, between Hamas and Israel. What do we make of this? So it's not surprising that he's going to Qatar. It is a country where the U.S. had been seen as an ally prior, frankly, to Trump's comments in 2017 about
Qatari is sponsoring terrorism. But the broader message of this entire enterprise that he's engaging in this week to your question, Rachel, is There's no clear foreign policy aim for the U.S. It's deals. Deals, deals, deals. Yes, look, when he went to Saudi Arabia in 2017, the goal was to try to minimize extremism in the region. That was the stated purpose. This purpose is deal.
And it's stated as deals for the U.S., but is there an overlap now and a lot of cross-currents between... deals for the US and deals that could be beneficial to the president. Clearly. So the deals, deals, deals, the deal making, what kind of deals and with whom, what are we talking about? So there's purported investment coming from Saudi Arabia. I believe that he is looking for similar investment declarations from other countries.
And then there are corporate leaders who all have shown up at this Saudi investment forum, some of whom have been Trump donors, like Elon Musk. Then there are people who Trump has spoken to frequently over the years, Steve Schwartzman, chief executive of the Blackstone Group. Larry Fink from BlackRock is there. Sam Altman, the chief executive of OpenAI.
The head of Palantir, there's the head of Halliburton, the president of FIFA. The head of Boeing is there, as we're talking about Boeing and these airplanes. Wait, the head of Boeing is there? Yeah. Is that kind of awkward? Well, I'm not sure what their side conversations were, but certainly.
The backdrop of the conversation is interesting. And one thing just to remember, Rachel, about the Qatari plane, the initial report was that plane was going to be gifted to him or announced as a gift to him while he's in qatar this week The Qatari officials after that report said that that was incorrect and that the discussions around Trump obtaining this plan were still ongoing.
I got the sense just from that statement that Qatari officials don't want the headline out of this week to be, we're giving you a big gift, and here we are. So taking all of this together, the plane deal with Qatar, the trip with all these business leaders with no clear diplomatic purpose, I can see why it all feels a little unclear as to what President Trump's primary goal is here.
So there's no question that there are some real deals for the country that Trump is looking to achieve here, whether it's artificial intelligence or nuclear power. These are still important exercises for him as a president that could be beneficial to the U.S. It is unavoidable to note that all of these discussions are in a region that is increasingly significant to the Trump family's own business interests. And presidents are not subject...
to ethics rules the way staff are. But presidents, and they don't all succeed at this obviously, but generally speaking the standard that presidents have been held to is to try to avoid appearances of conflicts of interest. so that voters are not raising questions about who these presidents are working on behalf of. Right, because if this is not a bad look, then what is a bad look?
increasingly doesn't care. He's making that very clear about negative headlines. Jonathan Swan and I wrote a story during the transition about how the two guardrails on him historically were the stock market, and bad press coverage. The stock market he's reacted somewhat to, but negative press coverage hasn't exactly been much of a hindrance to him. And he is angry that he is even being questioned. And he's determined that he wants to get this plane regardless of the criticism he's receiving.
And so far we have seen he is willing to dig in and write out the story. Maggie, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to notice. On Tuesday, President Trump announced that he would end sanctions on Syria. The move throws an economic lifeline to a country that, until December, had been devastated by years of civil war and dictatorship under the Assad family.
The sanctions were imposed more than a decade ago in response to the Assad government's brutal crackdown on the country, and they've been a stranglehold on Syria's economy ever since. A majority of the population lives in crushing poverty. The surprise announcement from President Trump came on day one of his trip to the Middle East, and he's expected to meet with the new president of Syria today in Saudi Arabia.
Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson and Olivia Nat. It was edited by Chris Haxel and Rachel Quester with help from Contains original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg. that's it for the daily I'm Rachel Abrams see you tomorrow