Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three, twenty episode two of Daly's Like I Say production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into the America share consciousness. And it is Tuesday, January ninth, twenty twenty four, just three days late. We missed missed
our big day over the weekend. But I was saying, Ben, don't you think is that kind of weird like to be celebrating January sixth on a weekend, Like you don't get to like dress up for work or like do any of the fun stuff that we normally do for January sixth, Right right, Well, anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien aka ball so hard motherfuckers think it's giants. That is courtesy of just Pruit, in reference to the femur that somebody thought was a giant's balls before they knew what
dinosaurs were. I'm thrilled. We're thrilled to be joined by very special guest co host writer who's one of the best podcasts, hosts and executive producers doing it. You know him from stuff that I want you to know, ridiculous history. Please welcome the brilliant and talented Ben bowling.
Doctor, awkward, that is a palindrome. That's a deep cut from an old friend who, believe it or not, Jack is just as nerdy as us, but a bit more clever.
Damn, doctor awkward as a palindrome. Hot, damn. I think you've said that before, but I don't think it sunk in. I was busy doing something else last time, just like on January sixth, Yeah, yeah, exactly, I wasn't there. What are you talking about? You can't prove anything that's a great palindrome? Great? Aka, how are you doing? Ben?
Oh so well? Fellows like gang folks you me. You may have heard some of the scuttle butt regarding aviation misadventures on the part of Boeing. I recently returned from a flight domestic US flight, and there was I kid the.
Not a gap kid the right. I saw, what's the version of me igest ighest? Yes, I don't know. That's terrible.
It's the woodest uh would anyway, Let's not get let's not get stuck in that because the window in the exits seat where I sat was certainly not stuck to the rest of the plane. The plastic panel was out.
I saw that on yeah, I saw that picture that was unnerving, especially after they had a little blowout on a Alaska. I actually flew Alaska to go back east to see my family over the break and had the thought, Alaska can't be like working with the highest quality planes, right, Like I feel like these are like third hand consignment.
At this point, I was like, like, you know, we were hitting turbulence, and I was having an existential crisis, as I do every time we hit turbulence, Like it gets worse with age for me for some reason, Like I thought, yeah, well, like I thought, I didn't notice turbulence when I was a kid, and my kids certainly don't notice it. But I am immediately contemplating my death every time there's turbulence.
I love it, Jack, I was sitting. I was sitting on this plane and we did have turbulence as well, and I'm looking, I'm looking through this gap. One person on Twitter or x as people prefer sometimes. One person on Twitter said, Ben, you know, it's just a it's a cosmetic thing. Right. You're inside a metal tube and there's a smaller plastic tube within there, and what you're seeing is the plastic tube not quite aligning, but everything is safe. And my response, honestly, as you and I
are both aging, everyone listening is aging. My response was such a classic cheap skate bed move. I was thinking, well, you know what, why would I go to an amusement park. Why would I pay extra for a roller coaster experience when I can just be on you.
Can be on an unsafe airline. You know what I mean.
I'm saving money.
Yeah, pretty smart, pretty smart. Got to pack it in where you can. Anyways, Well, we're glad you made it back and didn't have that window blow out and then get sucked out, which apparently doesn't happen that every movie. When there's a hole in the side of a plane, that hole turns into a sucking vortex which just like keeps creating larger and larger, like sucking larger pieces of the plane off or like pulling people out. And like they just landed that shit like it was you know,
top down summer day. Uh No, Like people were definitely people were taking videos. They were like that window is fucking open, bro, but like nobody was getting sucked anywhere.
The pilot's like, okay, it turns out this uh this ride is a convertible, so we're just gonna park with the top off.
Yeah. Anyways, Ben, Enough with us non experts. We're joined for our expert episode by a true real expert, a decorated attorney, the youngest ever president of the Kane County Bar Association who's been appointed Kane County Public Guardian, which means she's in charge of protecting residents who have no one else to help them. Please welcome, Diana motherfucking Law.
Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here.
Diana. I'm guessing on what the M stands for because your your name is listed Diana M Law. Did I get it?
It is Diana M Law.
Diana motherfucking was that?
Absolutely?
Yeah?
Chose that now? I Rememberrie like everyone else.
In this Okay. My dad has five sisters and they're all named Mary Mary something.
Yeah.
Yeah, because because Catholicism. Diana, what wonderful to have you. Where are you coming to us from?
Thank you. I'm coming to you from a very chilly, snowy Aurora, Illinois.
Aurora. I've heard of that place. Wayne's World.
Absolutely straight west of Chicago, so yeah, hour out with traffic, okay, but about thirty five miles straight west.
Oh, man, it is fifty nine degrees in Los Angeles and still fucking freezing you. No, No, it's like it's everybody is complaining to one another, like we can do it because we're all in Los Angeles, so we were all like in the same world of just having the layer between us and the world and the weather just like diminished to the point that we're we basically have no skin at this point. So it's just we're such babies.
We're just such babies. Fifty nine is freezing. It is below zero for Los Angeles temperatures, and I just wanted to make sure the audience hated me before we moved on.
Oh good, yes, okay, checking that off, Diana. As we are an audio show, I feel it is important for everybody to know you have a beautiful window view right now of the outdoors, which which looks pretty snowy and snowy. Yeah. I love snow. I mean, Jack, I'm gonna go out on a snowy limb here and say you are possible.
Don't do that at slippery frightened of snow. No, No, I'm not frightened. So I grew up back East. I spent a lot of time I lived in Massachusetts for a number of formative years of my life. I've I've been through snow. I just it's there's something about La where it's like our wardrobes are not built for anything under sixty five degrees, and like the buildings are not built for it. So you go inside and it just gets fucking freezing. Like there's just I got not heard of insulation.
I got an emergency text from some friends in Los Angeles when it rained. Yeah, yeah, a while back area, Diana. They were legitimately sincerely concerned.
You guys don't understand. It's not just cold, it's also windy. Have you heard of this wind, Diana? Sureley, you have not.
We have plenty of wind, plenty of wind in the windy city. And actually it didn't snow for Christmas. I think we might have actually been warmer than you. We were in the high fifties on Christmas Day, which was a little unnerving because I'm used to having my cold white Christmas. Yeah, and it was more like a spring day. Everyone's walking around in shorts over here.
Yeah, yeah, and that is you know, people from Massachusetts will if it's over thirty two degrees, like they're the other end of the annoying spectrum, where if it's over thirty two degrees, they will wear short sleeves and then make fun of you for being cold or for worrying about their skin.
Look at this guy wearing his pants.
All right, well, Diana, we are excited to talk to you. We're gonna talk about sort of a large issue that kind of goes undercovered in mainstream media. The New York Times actually just did a big article about it. But basically America's aging population, that we're headed for a demographic shift that will be unprecedented in our lifetimes, and you know, it's it's it's going to be a mess, especially given
the way America is currently constituted. Yes, and it's like one of those stories that we're not good at paying attention to because we're scared of death, like we don't like our own mortality, and so there's just all sorts of things working against us. Here. You work up to your elbows in this field, getting your hands dirty in this field, and helping people. So we're going to talk to you about that. But before we do, we do like to ask our guests to get to know them
a little bit better. What is something from your search history that's revealing about who you.
Are my search history. So my husband and I actually watched all we binged Fargo, that whole series over the break when we were home for the holidays, and my sister in law mentioned to me that Kirsten Dunst was married to Jesse Plemons, which I found surprising. So I did kind of a deep dive on his career and looking at all the things that he's been in. And sometimes I get on these little research projects and then all of a sudden hours have gone by, and I
don't know how that happens. But other than that, it's mostly travel blogs and white calf boots and other things that I might need for the weather.
Diana, what's the What's something about Jesse Plemans that really struck you as extraordinary?
As extraordinary that he's married to Kristen Dunn's I think, okay.
Like the second most extraordinator.
I mean, that's that's extraordinary. It's good for that man. I must be amazing in a room, must be. But he's also I do get like a nice calm feeling when he shows up on a on a film screen. I'm like, there's something about his energy.
I think he resonates like a Midwesterner. I actually found in my search he's born in Texas, but he's very he seems like a Midwesterner, like someone I would go have a cocktail with the like the little dive bar the street.
Yeah yeah, and he wouldn't have a cocktail, but he'd be cool about the fact that you were having a cocktail. I feel like he would you just have a beer or something.
He probably have some interesting facts. He would know someone who knows someone. And every character Jesse Plemon's plays, like the guy really came into his own. I would argue every character that he plays has this kind of grounded and I agree with you, Diana, grounded midwestern vibe and approach that brings the realism home. I remember, I remember because I am not good at pop culture. I remember seeing the guy one time and thinking I was arguing
with my girlfriend. I was like, come on, that's just that's Matt Damon, right, That's like definitely Matt Damon right, And I was incorrect.
Oh yeah. Someone once described Lonzo Ball as looking like if a seventh grader tried to draw Drake, and I feel like Jesse Plemmons is what happens if a seventh grader tries to draw Matt Damon, Like it's like not quite there, but it's like, you know, it's a bad drawing, but yeah, it's the the Plemons of it all. Like I I've just, without really noticing it, I've discovered that
I'm like a big Jesse Plemons fan. Because so there's this new movie from Alex Garland, who's like a filmmaker that I really liked, Annihilation, his movie starring Natalie Portman, sci fi movie, very cool. I haven't seen men a lot of people like x Makina, and so he's like an interesting filmmaker. I'm excited to see what he does next. At all times he's he wrote twenty eight days later, I think he has a new movie called Civil War
coming out. And it looked bad to me, Like the trailer looked like like it could be a Daily Wire movie, like if the politics were just like slightly shifted. But then the last scene that they show has Jesse Plemons and a pair of like bright red sunglasses just being like really weird, and I was like, back on board. That's all it took, was just seeing a weird energy from Jesse Plemmons, and I was like, all right, I'm man, I'm gonna watch this fucking probably three hour movie because, yeah,
that Plemmons in bright red tinted shades. Yeah that's not that's not a Plemmons. I've seen seen them without bright red tinted shades. So what must this be? Like?
That's a good that's a good question. Jac Do you do you all think that Kirsten Duntz knows that she's married to Jesse Plemons or does she think it's Matt Damon.
Oh that's actually an excellent question.
Uh, oh, she know. I think I think they're just both incredible actors who like respect the great acting of it all would be my guest. She's so good in that in that Fargo season. Yeah, it's just amazing.
Argo is a master work.
Yeah, I agree, Yeah, is he? And Fargo feels like he should be all over the place in that show.
Yeah, he was in the season where he's married to Kirsten Dunst in the show.
Oh he is. Okay, Okay, that makes sense.
I don't know which season it is. That kind of elblurn. Yeah, there after five days of NonStop.
Bargo man, that first season still hits the Billy Bob Thornton, What What What a blast? That was one of my favorite TV characters I've seen in a while. What, Diana is something you think is overrated?
Overrated? I think a lot of things are overrated. My parents would tell you that the only thing in life that's not overrated is having grandchildren. But I think, oh no, and Julie I gave him too. So I do think for the purpose of what we're going to talk about today, what I think is one of the something that's husually overrated right now is a college education or formal education after high school. And I say that for several reasons, but I think there's a huge trade gap right now.
And you know, there are kids that are going to college who don't have the finances to go to college. They're getting themselves in a huge amount of debt, and then they're graduating with a degree that's really not going to give them the type of job that is going to help them to pay for that debt that they just have now incurred. And on the flip side, if you join a trade now, they're so desperate for people to work in the trades that there are so many
trade organizations that I know about locally. Actually, one of my college my clients, has what's called a blue collar scholar where they will pay you a sign on bonus, then they train you. You just have to work there for two years. So those kids are grad you know, they're with their peers. Those kids that go in the trades are now making six figures by the time their peers are out of college, and their peers are now into debt if their parents in pay or they didn't
get scholarships. And so even if you do go to college, I think it's important to look at what's going to be my return on investment and can I go to a less expensive school, can I go to you know, can I study something that's going to get me a job right out of college as opposed to great, you got that degree, but now you really have to get a master's before anyone is going to hire you to do that, and then you're adding on debt. So that's what I would think is one of the things that's overrated.
One hundred percent agree it's unfortunately have some first hand experience with that. Can't speak for everybody, Diana, but I fondly recall every conversation I've had with one of my childhood best friends who went into HVAC when your boy went to get an English degree, As my father pointed out, oh you're getting a degree in a language you already speak. Uh, can can you build a house? And and the trades get right, the trades get I.
Think, unfairly maligned. Yeah, unfairly maligned.
It's a great way to say it.
Yeah, when I don't know, we actually just had to have at the studio here, I'm recording this from the studio, and we just had to have the English degree guy come out to take a look at our English use of English language in the in the studio walls had to check your child. Yeah, yeah, exactly, No, sorry, sorry, I proceed the Uh.
But that I think that's an excellent thing, you know. And also it goes to our larger conversation today, right, like the idea of economic disparity and the origins and future thereup.
I mean, yeah, the the financial precarity of basically everyone who's not extraordinarily healthy was really driven home by the research for today's subjects. Just it's you are, you know, an aging parent's health crisis away from really being in trouble because the country does not. It is not built to help out in situations like that the way that other countries are. It's built to be like sort of a fucking high stakes casino in all things and be proud of that. I guess it just fucking sucks, what
I mean. I will just say, like I think education is great, you just like in the current system where you know, everything is so financially precarious, like yeah, it's and like the system seems to be currently built to
favor predatory like everything, like financial predators. So you know, whether that be loans or whether that be you know, people who are just praying on you when you're in desperate need of a place for to help you with your parents' health care, like that absolutely really designed for them and not us in a lot of ways. So it's a difficult place to be in debt, and unfortunately the system is designed to drive you into debt, but via college education in a lot of cases.
But hold odd. At the other end, you can reverse your mortgage.
Oh yeah, that is a good point mortgage, right, I was just looking into that. Tom Selleck, my good buddy Selk was helping me out with that he has some interesting ideas. What is something you think is underrated?
Underrated? I think I have to say last year not an ideal time to start this in Illinois in January, but I started taking a daily walk and I would walk for forty five minutes outside no matter the weather. If it was really really bad, I would take my walking pad into the garage and lift up the garage door. But I went outside, and I didn't really know why
I loved it so much. And I was talking to one of my clients whose kid is a doctor, and he says, well, Diana, it's because if you spend at least thirty minutes outside every day, it's the same as taking an antidepressant. And so I noticed from my Apple Watch, after I'd just done this for about a week, my resting heart rate went down about seven or eight beats a minute. And I think, because you're outside, even if it's cloudy, you get the vitamin D. So there was
lots of health benefits. It's easy, it's free, it's simple, and it made a big difference. So I'm a big proponent of that daily walk.
Yeah. Again, a great idea that this design of air towns and cities in many cases not time for because that is not profitable. Nobody's making money off of that. As you mentioned, it's free. And so there's a lot of strodes and you know streets, street roads that are make walking hard and you know strip Strip Mall is easy.
Jackie, you not subscribed to walk plus.
Walk plus, that's true. Walk plus is actually great, great product. Who we'll hear more from Right now, We're going to take a quick break and then we'll come right back and we're back and yeah, So the US and the world at large are going through, uh not like it's begun an unprecedented demographic shift where the population of the world is about to be older than it ever has been before. Probably currently is older than it ever has been before, and we'll continue to get older and older.
So I one of the things we're gonna talk about is just like financially what that means for the world. And that might seem callous, but I think so I've talked a lot before on the show about the dependency ratio. I think it's quietly one of the most important metrics for explaining the economic fates of different countries in the twentieth century. But the basic idea is when you have a larger population that is working age versus the portion that is either too young or old to work, that
is good. So you put the babies in elderly on one side of a scale and people eighteen to sixty five on the other, and the more the people eighteen to sixty five outweigh the ones who can't work, your economy is going to do better. And so the US had a ton of economic success during the second half of the twentieth century at the same time that the baby boom was moving through the eighteen to sixty five
portion of their lifespan. And I think part of the reason we don't talk about the dependency ratio is they want to you know, baby boomers are still enormously powerful, and they want to believe that the success was due to like individualistic achievement and not just like dumb demographics. So we don't hear as much about the dependency ratio. China is another really good example of the dependency ratio.
Their one child policy gave them an extremely favorable dependency ratio for a while and now will lead to an extremely unfavorable one as sort of the you know, it was good when the artificially smaller generation due to the One Child Act or one Child policy was too young
to work. But now they are moving through the workforce, and the baby boom that made them put that policy in the place in the first place is now retiring, and so they have an artificially small workforce population and a very large aging population.
Add to that, in the case of China, add to that the femicide.
Right, yeah, of course. Yeah. The so truly like this is something that macro economists pay a lot of attention to. And so another thing you're hearing a lot about is like the impending wealth transfer from baby boomers. You know, they have more wealth than most other aging demographics, not just like because they're such a massive portion of the population, but also because they're just they've had a lot of success, possibly due to the favorable demographics, but they have a
lot of money. They're headed for retirement, and a lot of I see a lot of like business articles being like, guys, it's time to capitalize, like here's where you need to like cash in, and they're assuming that a lot of that money will be inherited, will go from baby boomers
to the next generation. But there's this article that we've talked about a couple times in the past year where the New Yorker profiled like the Getty Family Trust, and like what that looks like where they when the extremely wealthy are thinking about, you know, financial planning and how to make sure that no taxes are paid or as
little taxes as possible are paid. And that article points out that the average American passes along forty six thousand dollars like once once they pass away, and I think that's going to get less and less as more and more people are living longer and longer, and our healthcare system is just like set up to support them less and less. So that's just kind of the big picture, broad context of of why I think this is important, why this moment has come, I think to have this conversation,
But Diana, like, what does this look like? Because I think this ends up being a lot of what you do right is working with people who are older and don't have any institution or family left to take care of them.
Well, I do both, So I'm an estate planning lawyer and a retirement planning lawyer, so half my time is really taking care of my clients who are coming in to get their estate plan in order and talking about how they want to leave their money when they do pass away. And the other half is really boots on the ground. As public guardian, I get assigned by the court to take care of people who don't have any honest and reliable loved ones and so they are in
some type of crisis. Maybe they have dementia, maybe they have Parkinson's and they cannot make decisions on their own anymore, they don't have decisional capacity, So I get appointed to be their guardian to make their decisions and their financial decisions. So in that half of my job, I really feel more like a social worker. So I love it because I get to help my clients get their situations taken care of so they never need somebody like me as
public guardians stepping in. And then I help my people that are pretty helpless.
Yeah, and do you like, do you have an opinion? I guess on does the system seem like it is equipped to take care of the massive number of people who are entering this phase of their life? Like, well, how does the security net for the elderly kind of look from where you're standing?
So that's an interesting question, and I think part of what's important to do is kind of clarify what is there to pay for these older persons that need care. And so when you look at Medicare and Medicaid, there are two sort of sides of the coin. They were both put into law and at the same time. And what Medicare pays for is for anything that you're going
to get better from. So it's an entitlement benefit, which means if you've worked long enough in the system and you are able to get Social Security, then you're able to get Medicare. Regardless if you are a multimillionaire or if you are super poor, you are entitled to get Medicare. And Medicare will pay for things like that hip replacement, that cardiovascular surgery that you need, a removal of a brain tumor they'll pay for the rehab for that hip replacement.
So if you're going to get better those doctors' visits, hospital visits, your drugs, Medicare is going to cover that. On the flip side, you have Medicaid and so Medicaid and when I'm talking about Medicaid, it's not people in the community. I'm talking about AABD Medicaid for elderly people who need to be in an assisted living facility or a skilled care nursing home. That type of Medicaid is
not an entitlement benefit. You don't automatically get it. You actually have to be impoverished in order to get Medicaid, and so every state runs it a little different, but for here in Illinois, you have to get down to only having around one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in assets lost a house and a car if you're married, and then if you're not married, you have to be down to seventeen thy five hundred dollars and have no other assets, And so they really want you to spend
everything before you are able to get medicaid, and medicaid covers those things that you're not going to get better for. You have dementia, you have Parkinson's, you have MS, you're going to need room and board at a long term care facility. Medicare doesn't cover that. You need to be impoverished to get the government to pay for that through the Medicaid.
So there's nothing for people who have dementia and like they have to spend all of their money essentially to then be taken care of by the government, Like, there's not a thing that if somebody has a condition, a terminal condition, that will pay for that and allow them to leave anditance to somebody.
So for the people that are spending all of their money on nursing home and long term care costs, which is a huge reason that these assets will be depleted before they get to the next generation. That's for people who have not done any planning. Yeah, there's planning that we do at our firm. It's either a crisis because all of a sudden you're like, oh shit, Mom had a stroke, She's going to the nursing home tomorrow. And then there's people who have at least five years to
do the planning. So if they do come to us and they have at least five years to do this planning before they ever need to go on the Medicaid program. We can use different types of earvocable trusts. It is a great tool, but it requires planning a head and also having someone that you trust to manage it while you're alive if you become incapacitated.
Right, I've known so many people that, like I've heard it referred to as the Sandwich generation, where it's like people who have kids that they're still taking care of, and then elderly people who you know, elderly relatives who they're taken care of. And I've known people who you know, are still working and you know, trying to support themselves and their kids and then have to take care of
elderly relatives. And because of there's this thing that the United that has happened in the United States steadily over the course of like the last fifty years where small government has become like a cool thing, like the thing that both parties strive for. And it's basically like built on like Reaganomics and the idea that like, well, the you know, government is the worst people to have your money, like you don't want to pay taxes and they're going
to spend it inefficiently. And what that essentially means is that you become a bureaucrat. Like when it becomes something that you like you have to deal with medicaid, you have to like help your relative through this system. It becomes a full time job because those those networks are so vastly understaffed and byzantine, yes, labyrinth, I mean look at our tax systems. Yeah, absolutely, like our tax system could be like other countries have tax systems where they
just give you the bill. It's like a fucking restaurant, you know, they're like, here's what you Oh, we can figure this out. We have him. We have access to this information more so than you do. Here's what you owe, and then ours where they're like, all right, yes, how well do you know long division? And yeah, theoretical mathmoutic, guess how much money you owe? Okay, what happens if I'm wrong?
Jail?
Yeah? So how well are you familiar with the career of Wesley Snipes?
Exactly? Blates back on the way, folks, So stay tuned. Also, Diana, this this hits on something something that I find fascinating. As we're talking about a little bit off air, this is an issue that will only continue to increase in mainstream importance with the broader context that you've set up here. Jack, like the I'm thinking in terms, it's weird to me that a lot of the anolytical discourse about this goes back to food analogies. Because you mentioned the sandwich generation.
I'm thinking also of what was called like the donut hole gap in medicaid or medicare, right, Yeah, prescriptions. Yeah, yeah, so there's I just feel like we're knocking it out of the part with the food analogies.
Is what I'm congratulation, and that is mainly what's going to keep us comfortable into our old age's food analogies because you can eat the Actually I'm being told you cannot eat food analogies. So we're fucked, my bad.
Oh no, no, leave it in all right, we're wrong. But but Diana, there there's also the question I think a lot a lot of us are thinking about now, which is when people when people have the luxury or the wherewithal financially or just time wise to plan ahead,
it is for their benefit. What what happens when people are as you said in that crisis moment, you know you have you have become widowed instantly, and you have a lot of hard choices to make your uneducated about this, like we we can't talk about this without talking about something that Jack you set up quite astutely earlier, which is the idea of inheritance in in your in your work, how do you see people handling inheritance? Like is it
a state by state thing? Is it like a capture of some sort of treasure chest of spoils of war that just goes through generations, or like how do people navigate this?
So and it's very interesting. I always say when my clients come in, they'll say, well, is this the normal thing to do? I say, well, normal is just the setting on a dryer. Really, you can do whatever you want to do. Like if you can dream it, I can draft it, and so.
Great setting on the dryer. By the way, it's the only one I ever use but proceeed. Yah.
So we really have to work with people to see what they want to do. I mean I recently had a client diet and he was mega, mega wealthy. He has over one hundred million dollars in assets, and he really didn't like his children, so they're getting less than one percent each of his net worth. When it's all said and done. He decided to give everything to charity.
It's interesting you bring up the widows because I do sit with a lot of women who have lost their husband, and I have to have tough conversations where I say, guess what he chose the big punch, which means it doesn't continue now, Like he chose to have a just go for his life. It doesn't go for your life.
You also get one social Security check. You can choose the larger check of the two, but it's not a bogo deal like they're taking away one of those Social Security checks and your husband's pension.
Now.
Sometimes one get one by one, get one, yes, thank you. So a lot of times these women are sitting in front of me and they all of a sudden realize their income has now just been cut in a third of what they were getting when their husband was around. So they are tough conversations. I do see a lot of people, including charities. I see a lot of people. It's interesting to me. I feel like my clients, who are sort of comfortably wealthy, are more stingy of what they want to give to their children.
And now I find that so hard to believe. The wealthy, no, no way, not a chance, not them. Weren't counting on them to save us.
Yeah, they're not like the four and a ten million couples. They like want to hold onto everything as tight as they can. My clients are more a meager means. They're the ones that want to do everything for their kids. They just want to move all the money to they is like, just take it, take it away, take it now. I just want them to have my money now. I
don't need anything. I'll just go on Medicaid and just take it now, which of course is not the way we can typically do things, depending on the timing of it.
But just like big picture, and I do just want to come back to this getty thing one more time because a lot of times what you hear is that America just like doesn't value the elderly, and so like
it's a cultural thing. I think that at the very least that is like a two way street where because the government doesn't take care of the elderly and makes it a huge burden onto the private citizen, then like that makes it that like feeds into how Americans feel about their elderly relatives because they are, you know, a burden to them financially and financial successes like all anybody
cares about. So this is not like part of the thing driving the lack of resources and like how stingy we're having to be with regards to like staffing any of these things. Letting people have access to public health
care in old age. Part of the reason that that's not funded is because there's been a massive change since the nineteen seventies, where the average tax rate on the top point zero one percent has fallen by more than half to about thirty percent, while rates for the bottom ninety percent have climbed slightly to an average of twenty
five percent. The like there was a prevailing suspicion of any extremely wealthy person who was passing away trying to leave that money for themselves, and like since the seventies, any taxation on like a state planning has just been completely dismantled, and there's just like nobody pushing back because there's just been this favor, uh, that's been awarded to the extremely wealthy. And you know, as mentioned, they will
take advantage of that. They had entire teams companies with the people working on.
Right. Yeah, I mean it's like it wasn't too long ago in the in the New Yorker article you're citing, wasn't too long ago that members of the Supreme Court said, Hey, basically, taxes are what you pay as like your club fees for being in this America thing. Right, you're you're, uh, you are part of this larger American experiment.
Yeah, Oliver Wendel Holmes said, taxes are what we pay for civilized society, and they used to be kind of understood and no more. Now it's vilified. Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back, and
we're back. So yeah, just in terms of like forecast, I just ben you called the stat out that I think is important for people to understand because so, like we said, this is kind of already happening, but by twenty fifty, the population of Americans sixty five and older is projected to increase by more than fifty percent to eighty six million. According to Census estimates, the number of people eighty five or older will will nearly triple to
nineteen million. So that's that's a lot like that, that's a wave that's coming for the US economy, that's coming for those people's kids, And I just I don't know unless there's some massive sea cham like, I just don't know that. Like there's this New York Times series about that I pulled that stat from, and it talks about all of you know, how there's just not the political
appetite to fund these these solutions. But you know they also talk about other countries where you know, the US is near the bottom of percentage of GDP spent on long term term care. The Netherlands spends four point one percent of its GDP, Japan two point oh percent, Canada one point eight. America is down at one point zero, near near the very bottom of you know, the type of countries that they're looking at, and US, and in the US where poor equals bad and a lot of
the like public consciousness. I feel like this has sort of a self perpetuating dynamic where the less we give to something or a group of people, the worse off that group of people is. The worse off that group of people is, the less we want to look at them or think about them, the less the government is going to give to them, the worse off they're going to become, etc. Et cetera. Until you know, like they just get where the rich carriage or the poor get poor.
I just coined that. I'm the first person to ever say that. But do you see, like any hope for change at this at this point, Diana, I think.
At some point, because the system is unsustainable the way it is, with the cost of health care and people living longer, there's going to have to be some type of change. And I don't know, if that's going to come from the government or if it's going to just people are going to choose to live their lives differently. You know, it's interesting to meet different cultures that have
more multi generational families. I anticipate that if they are unable to get care anywhere else, and they probably will end up living with their children a lot more.
You know.
The problems they see there though, of course, are people getting you know, senior services or Catholic charity is knocking on their door because this person is neglected. But they are just trying to do the best they can. But they are maybe in that sandwich generation where they still have to go to work and so mom's home all day, and then they have kids and they got to get
their kids to their things. I've always been a big proponent two of saying, you know, for people that purchase long term care insurance to pay for their own long term care, there should be a tax credit for that, because if I have long term care insurance and I'm paying three hundred dollars a month for it, i should be rewarded for doing that, because guess what I'm not going to do is end up on the state's door asking for them to pay for my long term care.
I think there's simple things like that that we could, you know, have legislation. There's also eleven states now that have death with dignity statutes or right to die legislation, and I think that's a growing I don't know if it's a trend, but something that's definitely being talked about in Illinois. I hope that we do end up with that type of legislation here as well, because people can
decide to go out on their own terms. If I have some terrible diagnosis like als where I'm just going to slowly lose my ability to move everything to where I can blink at you and then not breathe, I don't want to be in a bed for ten years with that diagnosis. I want to go to Europe with my family, come home, and you know, figure it out.
Yeah.
Yeah, So I think there's going to be more of a push for that too.
Yeah, and that right now, like I guess that seems like people who haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this sort of thing. It seems like that's the sort of thing that people assume you can like figure figure out some way to do that, and it's it's really not like there's that there's not a way, or at least there hasn't been traditionally, Like that's what that whole quirky and controversy was about.
And there's a there's social aspects this too, going to the multicultural point, which I really appreciate, Right, It's what we're describing here is indeed not a phenomenon limited to the United States. We see we see this demographic shift occurring in many developed countries. And I love the point you're making as well, Diana, about the the reality that shocks a lot of people their first time traveling outside
of the US. A lot of families live together, right, it is super normal too, Like if you're if let's say, let's say you go on a date somewhere, you know, and you're in Argentina or whatever. Well, that thirty something year old person you're meeting, they live with their parents, you know what I mean.
And it's not a bad thing. There's no stigma, right, it's actually starts of pride for the parent that my child chooses to live with me and stays here.
Yeah, it's not like a punchline and weekend at Bernie's like, that's what I think. That was the first time I saw someone, right, doesn't he live with his parents and that he goes on a date and lives with his parents. I was like, well, I'll never do that.
Well, it's aspirational because we're just gonna announce it here, Jack and Miles and I are. We're all moving back in with our peoples.
That's right.
Yeah, my parents actually just moved in with me, which is great. When they decided to downsize and sell their house, and I'm like, thank god you did that while you're alive, because I would not want to have to deal with all that after you're gone. Right, they got rid of all the personal property, and so half the year they're upstairs in my second primary bedroom and half the year they're in their condo and Phoenix. And when they're here,
it's great. They can help make at dinner on the table, they can run the kids around wherever they need to go, so I can work all day and take care of the people that I So I'm a big believer in the benefits of a multi generational house. And now they don't need carry out, which is right. You know, that's a different situation.
But it's just like a lot of the writing on this still makes it seem like it's like optional, like that this could happen, and it's like this is happening. Is there like this is inevitably going like this population is inevitably going to get old, which is going to
create a crisis. I don't know, but yeah, I mean there's interesting policies in place in Japan, the Netherlands that you know, prove that it can be done, and like that we could be in a place to prepare for this, but it's just the political rhetoric is so like every man for themselves, every man and woman for themselves, is so that it just feels like we have a long distance to travel before we get to a place where this is somewhat manageable.
Perhaps that political appetite we're talking about will itself evolve in the coming years, right, because that's the hope. Yeah, that's a voting block of very power full voted block, by the way. Uh and you know, in a self interest prioritized culture, maybe, guys, I'm trying to do like
a silver lining thing. I'm not sure if it's working, but getting there, they'll they'll they'll start to you know, they'll they'll you'll start to vote for the common good, right for the greater good when you feel the greater good directly involves you.
Yeah, maybe maybe be the first time, but does make sense, doesn't it? Diana? It's such a pleasure having you on the show.
Thank you.
Where can people find you? Follow you all that good stuff?
Well, my law firm is called law like my last name L A. W. Husselbaum H E. S. S E. L B A U M. We're an Aurora, Illinois and our website is www dot law has dot com. If you're in another state and you need a go to state planner, we're part of the National Academy of Elder la Attorney. If you want to send me an email, I might know somebody where you live to go get your estate planning done by someone who knows your state's laws. And I'm on Instagram, but I'm not very exciting and
more of like a lurker than anything. But it's at funky bag.
Lady, nice, amazing.
And that's about it.
Is there a work a media that you've been enjoying?
Ooh okay, So since I do take care of older adults, I did find this to be a lovely little piece of media. I really did enjoy that Golden Bachelor show.
Oh nice, I did.
My husband I would hear him tell the kids, your mother's watching the Golden Dildo again. He would not watch.
It with me.
But I really liked it. I thought it was very sweet. I liked the women on there. I liked the gentleman. I liked that they did find love. And I've yet to see the wedding, but it's in my roku somewhere waiting for me.
They did find love. That's good, Ben, Such a pleasure having you. People find you follow you in as their work media you've been enjoying. Ah.
Yes, you can find me getting into all sorts of shenanigans on shows like Ridiculous History, which is just what it sounds like. We didn't overthink the title. You can also find us on stuff they don't want you to know, a title we did overthink because we had no idea the show would go on that long. You can find me with my co host Matt Frederick and Noel Brown, applying critical thinking to all sorts of strange questions. You can follow me on Instagram in a burst of creativity.
I'm at Ben Bolin, I know, right, stunning James Joyce. Yeah, and perhaps most importantly, I've got to say a piece of media that I have been super duper enjoying. There is a show on Netflix where it's a retired elderly guy in Japan and he goes and eats desserts and just thinks that he's a samurai when he does it. I say, I love it, but I can't remember the name of the show, like you, Diana with a Fargo binge. I just turned it on and then sort of disassociated.
But Netflix has some sleepers. I got some sleeper hits.
What's that show called?
Thanks to some help from our team, it is cantaro Ah.
Netflix shout out super producer Catherine Law for that assist tweet. I've been enjoying. Steven with a pH tweeted showing a picture of a very healthy person to my doctor. I was thinking something a bit like this. I just like that idea, going with the haircut approach to the doctor's office. You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're
at the Daily Zeitgeist. On Instagram, we have a Facebook fan page on a website, daily Zeitgeist dot com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. And I will recommend the song Float by Jennel Money, which I just discovered and is a very dope song. Haven't listened to Gennel Money in a while, and that song goes, so we will link off to that in
the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio ap Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows, that is going to do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to y'all then bye.