Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza. Yeah, so, without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist. Miles. We are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by today's special expert guests. He is the senior researcher of US hate and extremist Movements at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue.
To quote Samuel L. Jackson, holt onto your butts because it's the return of ultimania. Welcome back to the show, Jared Hawk.
Jared, Hey, thanks for having me, guys. I kind of feel like the janitor. I think, like when you go see a concert and all the lights come up and like after those musical renditions.
Yeah, yeah, all right, guys. Hey, hey, oh oh hey, ye sweeping up around here. I don't have to go home, but you really shouldn't stay here. Guys left a lot of little plastic bags on the ground here. Another one of those shows.
I guess.
How you doing, Jared, Hey, I'm doing right where you coming to. It's from Chicago. Moved here. A couple of years ago and it's getting a little cold here, but love this city.
Yeah the old two one three three one two three one two damn it.
Yeah, that's so close. Hey, it's okay, man, it's okay.
We covered this yesterday. A yeah.
Literally, So, Jared, what's like, because you know, when we first started the show, we had you on when you're working at like right Wing Watch. Yeah yeah, and now like you've there's like a whole lane to be somebody who is so well versed in like extremist semiotics and monitoring extremist movements that like, I just feel like you're always moving up and I'm like, this is this is fair. I love the glow up, but it's always on the back of having to have your head in some of
the dark shit all the time. But you're doing well otherwise despite this career path. I just want to make sure because the work you do is fantastic. The work that your colleagues do is fantastic. I could never imagine being disengaged with it, even at the level we do. But shit, the level that like you guys do is completely it's like completely different.
Yeah, yeah, I'm doing well.
I appreciate all that.
It's It's really interesting because I started doing this kind of stuff full time something like eight years ago, right, and I felt like when I was doing it then, I was like the crazy guy on the town square, being like here, ye, here, he please pay attention to this shit, right, And now it's just like, I mean, I guess I'm glad it's recognized, but it is really unfortunate that you know, in the grand scheme of things that it's necessary.
Yeah.
Yeah, but so long as I can help, you know, that's it's like a calling of mine, I guess, And I don't know. It's really dark, but then there's like a little bit of gallows humor that keeps me coming back.
Sure. Yeah.
Would you say, like just kind of having taking a step back, would January sixth be the thing that like made sort of the mainstream world take right wing extremism more seriously? Was it happening before that? Was it Charlottesville? What was the kind of overall pattern?
I mean, I think Charlottesville was sort of the beginning of it. And then in twenty nineteen there were a few really really horrible extremist mass killings. That's when you had like the Pittsburgh Sennagogue shooting christ Church was that year, and then I think for you know, the normies of
the world that still didn't get it somehow. It's kind of hard to think of a more powerful image than you know, QAnon ants and car dealership uncles rather flies by the internet, you know, smashing through the halls of Congress. I think that was pretty hard to you know, look away from or right off. It's like, oh, well, it's just some weird fringe, you know, yes, and you're like, it's right there in your face. That's my fucking uncle.
Fuck.
I remember how recently it was like such a fringe idea, Like even even after right wing extreme asm was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, it was just like there was nobody looking into it. Even after Trump got elected, like there was still like just people weren't taking it seriously as a threat.
It's because we have such you know, white supremacist reflexes that were like them, no, no, they're nice kids. They have Jacky's on okay, and they're they're not. They don't look that imposing. Now, this group of people with these signs over here, I don't know what's going on. It
may have to do with their complexion. I don't know, but yeah, like I feel like that always has that's always benefited, especially like right wing extremism is their whiteness or just not whether not being taken seriously or this idea of like, oh it's nothing, it's just don't worry about that over there kind of shit.
Well, I mean it still does, right, I mean I think about like, even in the field I work in, which is weird to call it a field now, it's every once in a while you'll catch, you know, after some mass shooting or big event in extremism land, a bunch of people trying to offer up all these like different competing theories as to why it happened, whether it's you know, like economic hardship or whatever.
It's like, right, we don't, you.
Know, as a culture, we don't cut this slack or like try to you know, do armchair psychology over other stuff, you know, And it's always interesting to me like where that gets applied, because that's one of those I think kind of subtle ways that you know, living in a culture defined by white supremacy like comes out even in the field that you know is hoping to try to counteract some of that.
Right, right, right exactly. But how did they grow up though? These skinhead kids.
It's like, well, it doesn't matter because yeah, exactly, let's get to the point here, skinhead now, yeah, and that you know you.
Hate to see it, don't you? You hate to see I feel like that's like what people would say, like in newsrooms, like, ah, you hate to see it. Just these nice kids going on a foul But yeah.
Really, what is something from your search history?
Oh god?
Okay, So the one thing that really did pop up yesterday when I looked was is it okay for my two year old to want to stay home all the time?
Right? Oh?
Like a homebody two year old?
Yeah, because we're currently like putting her into school and she freaking hates it.
And so I just like, it's just so crazy because when I google.
Something like that, it's not like I think there's going to be an answer, right I really, you know what I'm looking for, and this is so sad. I'm looking for like a message board where I can just connect to someone in a similar situation and then I just like quickly scan it and then I close the.
Tab and move on with my life.
Right Yeah, Yeah, it's sad of like No, that's not all bad.
Yeah, I think I should be just like texting a friend right.
Well, that have I mean, but I guess it's sometimes like our questions are so specific to experience. Sometimes we don't have somebody who's been through that exact thing, so I can see what's.
Cleaner to crowdsource friends, Miles, You don't a friend is going to want stuff from you. But this is crowdsource and see you you cast a wide net see other people's experience, and then you can just discard.
Them and then you. Guys don't always get back to me right away.
So that's why for this specific one, I didn't really want to text you.
I don't interact with people unless it's on my podcast.
You have to come here with a microphone in front of you. Yeah.
I haven't spoken to my wife in seven years. What I say, it's gotta be on Mike. This is content, babe, This is content, babe. The I have a five year old I was fighting this exact battle this very morning, was trying to get him to go to school, and he unbuckled himself as the car started moving, Oh tried to climb into the front seat and be like, I'm not going I'm not no, like I don't think you understand. I'm not. Wow, like it's happening.
Trump on January sixth, like trying to turn the suburban around, Like, yo, get back, stay back there, sir, Yeah, you're doing.
It's very transitory though.
Wow.
We were over it within five minutes.
Okay, that's good.
See my girl, she's new to this whole thing, so she's got endurance.
Like I was.
They have a little gate on the side of the school, and for like twenty minutes, I was like peeking through the.
Gate, yeah, and like yeah, she's still going yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, she's got a really dirty mouth.
Don't touch me.
You fucking asshole.
You're like, oh my.
God, I'm like, sorry, honey, I gotta go do a podcast.
Sorry, very important. You know what, you can totally just end this right now and go and go hang out with your daughter if you want. This is, by no means the best thing to be doing this.
If I get a phone call from from the center, I'll have to take it. But otherwise, you guys, I got my priority stroke.
Okay. Yeah, what is something, Brian that you think is overrated?
I think eating healthy is overrated.
M go on.
I'm like, I'm like, I get it.
Like, you know, it's like eating healthy probably makes you feel better, you know, it probably makes you live longer, but who cares.
You're here for a good time, not a long time.
Here for a good time, not a long time, yeah, or are you for a long time in a bad time?
Like yeah? With them of enjoying junk food yeah.
Or like not yeah junk food or just like stuff that, Like if you have two options in front of you, it's like, why let me have the bad one. Maybe the bad one is not even that bad?
What are you okay?
Maybe it's like, were you recently at at of crossroads with with food and you had to decide whether, like which which you're gonna give into the demon or the angel on your shoulder?
No, I generally eat healthy, though.
Oh but you seem very healthy, Like that's the thing is like, but there are certain people who just have good Like if I eat unhealthy unhealthily in the morning, like I'm fucked for like a couple hours at least, Like my energy is gonna be all messed up and stuff. But that's just because I'm old, you know, and like
my body doesn't work that well. But there's like there was some one of like the greatest NFL players in the league was like talking about how he like wakes up and like works out for six hours and like the only thing he eats at that time is like candy or something. It's just like but his body is just obviously a far superior machine and it just like doesn't matter, you know for him, Like I have to monitor my shit. Like He's just like no, what wait, you have to like pay attention to what you put
in your body? That sucks? Man.
Just see a Costco sized tub of red vines while you work out? Exactly?
Are you like, do you need to eat healthily to like feel good or you're just good either way?
Yeah, to maintain my physique. I feel like I need to eat healthy yeah O kidding.
My rip.
I feel like I know, I just be healthy because I'm like, you know, trying to like maintain good habits or whatever. Right, I'm kind of like backtracking on everything I'm saying, but.
Like, but I feel like, yeah, yeah.
I feel like when people are like, you know, I junk food last night, I shouldn't have or whatever, it's like you can't eat junk food and it's okay, you don't have to feel bad about it.
I feel like there's like a built in chamb of it.
Oh yeah, yeah, how much is my how much of it is in my head versus like actually, like me eating junk food makes me makes my body work worse? Or is it just like a shame spiral where I'm right eating badly and feeling badly and therefore eating badly again and then it shows up on my hips.
As long as you don't walk into a McDonald's and the first thing that the staff says.
Is yo, he's back, he's back, then.
I feel like you're probably okay, But what's your what's your If you're obviously you're healthy, but what's your guilty pleasure? Like, what are you eating when you go?
Man?
Fuck all this health eating?
Healthy Taco Bell?
Okay, yeah, that's health.
Taco Bell, Me and that bear have that in common.
Yeah. If they have vegetarian options at the place, that's that's health food and you don't have you didn't have to get the vegetarian option. The fact that they offer it means they're thinking about you and.
They Taco Bell is health food.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely they should have it at Arawe, but they don't because they're cowards.
That's right. A is like a fruit juice cocktail. Basically it's mostly natural.
Yeah, mostly except for the dies.
What were you gonna say about Arawe?
I forget aone's crazy.
Aaron doing taco bell would be a game changer, though. I think, can you imagine, like it's good if it tastes like taco bell, but it was like, you know, top tier ingredients.
Could they Is it possible that I'm always thinking like I think it's the chemicals and the lack of like nutrients that gives it that flavor. But I'm open, I'm open to somebody being like, no, this is actually I can give you the turned up.
Yeah, beef culinary zeit gang. Let us know, like, is there is that possible? Is it possible to just because I know, I like there's high end like smash burgers and stuff like that, Right, that's like really great ingredients and that stuff works out pretty well. But like, can you get what we love about taco bell using like all natural, like locally sourced ingredients.
Yeah, there is like a TikTok dedicated to that.
Yeah, I'm sure like yeah, like like health health junk, but like they have you know, you sell like the Taco Bell seasonings that you could put on ground beef. I gotta say when I use like store bock ground beef with that, I'm like, yo, this ship is this shost like yeah, because it's real, you know what I mean. It's different than the vision to Taco Bell.
It's two meeting. I'm like the you can like, it's not it's not so much. The meat is not so much a paste that just gets spread like a layer of paste that has the memory of like a time that I ate meat so less than actual pieces of meat in my mouth. Yeah, got talk about so good. I'm also I've been I've been craving. I've been craving
fast food every time I drive by it. It's a and being reminded of like there was that study that people who live within like a couple of blocks of a fast food restaurant generally like have much worse health prospects and prognoses.
And yeah, I live right by a Wendy's at four times a week, I would say, Yeah.
That's a lot. That's a lot of nose that you have to get yourself to say, you know, on a daily basis, like I can't.
Honestly, I live by a Taco Bell and a McDonald's, but I takes every fiber of my being to stay away from that Taco Bell. So then I end up doing this thing where I'm like, oh, I'll go to the other fast food place, Taco Bell. Yeah, yeah, I don't. It's just some stupid shit. But I'm not on that. I'm not on that life as much as I used to be, that's for sure.
There needs to be like a somebody that like calls you when you're like about to drive by that place, Like there's a GPS that like knows you're driving by a fast food place. And then you get an emergency phone call from a loved one, but it's not real, like you got to get home right.
Now, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he's coughing exactly.
Yeah, And so you go home and you you don't even think about it.
What is what's something you think is underrated?
Okay? I am in my thirties and I love staying with my friends in other cities, like when I travel for comedy, I like, but I'm learning, Like my boyfriend is like I'm almost forty I'm getting a hotel room, and I'm like, no, let's stay with friends. We get to like wake up and have breakfast with them and like hang out with their kids. And it's like a sleepover for adults. You know, Yeah, I love it.
I think we need to.
It's community, it's.
You know, I kind of I'm kind of on the side of your boyfriend, but also I like it's it is fun. It's always like it feels good to be like to wake up in like a friend's place and just kind of start there. But my whole thing is when I take a ship, I don't want to have people being like yo, is he still taking a ship or being like yo, bro, like the one bathroom in here.
People got to accept you for your ship.
It's not even me.
It's like for me, like, I love I need my own bathroom, you know what I mean? You need friends who have a Starbucks house so they can go to the Starbucks exactly, you're gonna light that up.
I need my bed day and you.
Main your main bedroom, the bathroom off that if I could just borrow that for the afternoon, I just like, he you're sleeping, and I'm like, you can.
Like listing all the ways your terrible house guests disgusting in your home.
Yeah, sorry, man, I'm just gonna utterly fuck up this bathroom. And I'm sorry.
I invited thirty of my closest friends to have a chili contest in your home.
Mind, I borrowed your wife's bathroom for the bubble bath.
And these guys there, they are real jokesters. We like to put vizin in each other's food and stuff, so we could, you know, get terrible stomach prices. Whatever, Look, we're gonna have a good time.
We did have friends to stay with us when we were living in San Monica and our toilet completely like fucked up, and so we had to like keep going to the Starbucks like that was the only bathroom those like working.
Oh I've done that.
I've done that in someone's home before. I have to tell you this story. It's embarrassing as hell. But I was like a kid and my family was visiting their family friends that they had known in India that they hadn't seen in like decades, and we stayed with them, and like I clogged the toilet and it literally caused house damage, like it, Like my dad was trying to unclog it, and like the seal broke and it leaked and was making through the roof and it was so
it was the worst thing in the world. And it all came from a small child, well at least I was like younger, Yeah, I was young.
I just realized. I think your story just made me realize that I had like a formative experience at a Halloween party when I was in fourth grade.
I saw your eyes go black for a second, and I was like, what is happening in.
Yeah, I war wore one of the dead people from the Crossroads video.
I remember it was a Halloween party for this girl, Daniella, and we was like a costume party and this is I'm pretty yellow party. I'll give you Dane. I fucked her bathroom up so bad. The toilet was clogged. I could not unclog it. And then like the games were starting, so I had to abandon my post and go out there.
And then like everyone was like something's wrong with the next like focal point of the party is like something's wrong with the toilet, like it's breaking, And I was like, oh, ship, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, right, so I think, God, thank you, just you just knocked a memory loose. You know what, I'm a caller. I'm a caller and work this out to make.
A missing therapy. But for people whose toilets you, yeah.
Exactly, like reach out to your expector to be like, Miles, what are you talking about? That's no problem. She's like, Miles, you can't unfunck up that toilet. Okay.
She's like, you know, my my parents had to move from that house, right traumatic And she's like, also, why are you bringing this up? Like we've been friends since then.
I'm like, sorry, amazing. Well, yeah, but to your point, adult sleepovers wonderful can be truly wonderful. You really, It's just like, I don't know, it's a UNI. Every hotel is like fairly similar, whereas you get a completely unique. It's like that part in the rehearsal the Nathan Fielder Show where he like goes to that house. He's like, everything here is like so perfect. You couldn't like recreate
this with the greatest work of art. And he's just like looking at the way they like leave their shit around, right, and it's just like that's the most beautiful work of art. Sometimes it's like particularly humane human.
Thing seeing how people live or like raise their kids or play with their dogs. Like it's just like being in their life. I feel like is more like intimate than like going out to a restaurant and meeting up and all of the conversation winding down at the predicted amount of time.
Right.
Yeah, Yeah, it's fun. It's well because on the other on the other side of the coin, I love having
people stay with me. Yeah, Like I love it because then I get to, like, you know, my love languages come out, Like I'm all about acts of service and shit like that, So I start cooking and doing those kinds of things, and so like when you experience that on the other side too, that's also a nice way to like kind of remember like that you have a bond with people too, so and you're not going to get that at the hotel buffet.
Right, And I do when I go to their house, I do order room service. And yeah, you're like, there's not even a menu.
What do you mean dropping towels outside the bedroom door?
Yeah?
Sorry, where's the comment box?
Yeah?
Where where do I leave some feedback for?
You have to post it note on your door. Last night before you went to sleep. That said two eggs, benedict and discresso. What was that? That's what I'll have in the morning.
Yeah, and uh, we're going to be sleeping in, so if you could just like kind of bring it in quiet but.
Hushed, hushed, hushed, but bring it in like I don't want it to be cold, so like, let me notes there, but don't fucking wake me up.
They start getting into it. They're like, where's my tip?
I'm like, yeah, they give me a bill. I'm like, damn fucking forty seven bucks. The fuck is this? They're like, well, there's a service fee.
All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about the GOP debate. And we're back.
Oh, we're back.
Oh we're back, so, Jared. Something that your institute has been talking about is sort of some of the opportunism happening from the extreme right. It feels like there are like avowed anti Semites that are using the current situation in Gaza to like kind of get their message in under the radar to people that are merely trying to
learn more about what is happening on the ground. Are you are you seeing a lot of this kind of opportunityanistic rhetoric happening both on the side of anti Semitism and then kind of in other ways on the side of Islamophobia.
Yeah, definitely. I mean any kind of like major cultural flashpoint like this is going to be a big like source of opportunism from extremist groups and on the extreme right. We've seen you know, neo Nazis, white supremacists, you know, all kinds of folks that have these really sort of ingrained anti Semitic beliefs trying to insert themselves into the conversation. And you know, they sort of rehearse these talking points for so long they are absolutely obsessed with Israel and
that sort of stuff. So now that that is in the news, you know, I think some of them have been able to, you know, get on platforms like Twitter or I guess it's XN and you know, kind of convey this false sense of authority, right, you know, and maybe the get people in by you know, just kind of sharing news about what's going on or speculation or whatever. And then you know, if they get people along for the ride, then you know, that's when the real shit
comes out. You know, this is and these kind of opportunities. You know, I think back to when I started, and you know, I was hanging out on four Chan during the Trump movement and whatever, and you know, to this day,
there's this obsession with like red pilling. Not a lot of people like call it that explicitly anymore, but just seeking these little opportunities to like plant these little seeds and try to take these social movements that have a lot of emotion, you know, that are maybe debated or less clear on facts in some cases, like in this one, where there's like both the time zone gap and also just a disparity between like the amount of reporters on the ground that are able to get good information and
like have it bounce through and then wind up in a US audience. You know, in that gap, that's where they're trying to leverage things and get people. Even if you know they're not going to go to like a pro Palestine protest and walk away with a crowd of two thousand neo Nazis, you know, they want to at least get some of the some of their ideas even just slightly more popularized, because that has the effect of sanitizing them right when they come out and maybe they're
a more extreme version of it. But if people are acclimated at the very least, even if they don't totally believe it, it still gives them an advantage in the discourse. And like being viewed as legitimate or being viewed as you know, being reflective of how people secretly really feel, right, is like the greatest gift in the world to extremists.
Because I feel like, who's that was that one where Benny Johnson like a clown?
Clown?
Yeah, like I felt early on he was like tweeting things that seemingly like appeared objective about, like policies of the Israeli government, and then people were like, dude, this guy is fucking a trash racist, Like like, hold on the people that this do this is getting a ton of retweets right now. Know that this person has like does not have their head in this for the right reasons. He's purely here to like insert himself to get an
audience that is eventually gonna switch a certain way. But like when you when you guys do an analysis, you were obviously you're saying like you're seeing like an uptick in both islamophobic posts and anti Semitic posts, But you're also very you're careful to do the thing, which because right now I feel like we're in this environment where people are conflating Israel with the entire religion of Judaism, or conflating a call for a ceasefire to be anti semitic.
But how do you get like, so in that analysis, what were you guys even finding from from from like what's currently happening.
Yeah, so doing analysis over like several platforms on social media, there's no like totally perfect methodology. Sure, so these are like approximations based on like collections of keywords we put together and then sort of calling and refining, you know, getting the trash out of the data and that sort of stuff. But we're seeing increases to the tune of something like four hundred percent or like two and a
half time fold when it comes to anti semitism. But yeah, we try to be really careful in doing exactly what you just said. You know, people criticizing the government of Israel is not like inherently anti semitic, right, so that should not qualify And again, like you said, calling for a ceasefire or you know, that sort of thing is
not necessarily like pro Hamas, right, right. I think the powers that be, like these militaries and stuff, right, would like love for us to just be like at each other's throats, you know, failing to see this like middle humanitarian ground of being, like what if killing innocent people is bad?
Right? Right?
Period, We're against that?
Yeah, what if like children didn't have to die discriminately?
Right?
Like That's but you know in these situations that that sort of headbutt that's happening is just like producing these huge rises in online rhetoric that's like very specifically islamophobic, very specifically anti Semitic, and those trends are also reflected in some of the early like offline data overseeing you know, the leaders of synagogues getting targeted, people showing up to pro Palestine protests with weapons, Like just north of Chicago and Scochi, someone showed up with like a it's like
a paintball gun type, it's like a less than lethal gun type thing, but it still managed to like terrorize the crowd and all that. Right, So it's you know, that conversation that's happening online is also reflecting itself in real life. And you know, if you remember either one of these communities, maybe rightfully, so you would feel a little bit on.
Edge, right, Yeah, and I'm sure adding to that the utter lack of moderation on Twitter. It's just like it's
just a free for all. And I know you guys were pointing out that there's a four hundred and twenty two percent rise in the use of anti Muslim language on x since the start of this, and yeah, like that's why, Like when I first reached out, I was like, I'm really curious to get your perspective on this, because I can I already was seeing like at the start of this that there were these like people I'm like, I'm pretty sure I know that handle but for bad reasons,
Like I'm pretty sure this person is a scumbag like neo Nazi, and then they'll just like kind of sanitize their avatar to be like, no, I'm wearing a suit and I have this like I have an Israeli and American flag in it, but I'm also doing this like
really like really opportunistic shit. And I can just see how, because of how charged the entire situation is, it must be like a very like the like extremists must be just like rubbing their hands together to be like, oh, we can really take advantage of this in either direction.
Really, yeah, definitely. It's like if I mean, if you look at the you know, explosion of the hospital in Gaza, for example, that was that was like a really good example of the information gap that they're exploiting. In this situation where there's reports of this explosion, you know, some initial remarks both from you know, government over Gaza and Israel. Newsrooms in the US are trying to figure out what the hell is happening. A few of them fall like
flat on their face. A lot of details still aren't clear. But in that gap, you know, which can be several hours, if not days, and you know, I mean we don't we still don't have like the most insane, like if you're taking this position of being like inherently skeptical of like government claims right like as far as hard concrete this is one, two three what happened, we still don't
have that right. And that gap is where the opportunity lies for these folks, because they can come in and say, you know, you should listen to me because X y Z, and while you're here, I've got all this extra shit to say right, and then that's when they're getting sort of there. They're coming in this with ulterior motives, right, you know.
Yeah, yeah, the conflating of anti Semitism and criticism of the Israeli state is where a lot of these extremists are thriving. And then on the side of Islamophobia, as Miles mentioned, your your organization found a four hundred and twenty two percent rise in the use of anti Muslim
language on Twitter since the start of the conflict. But it's like it feels a little bit different there because so much of the US government and like mainstream media's official default position, like since two thousand and one, has had a lot of Islamophobia baked into it. So like, how are you guys, It seems like that this is metastasizing islamaf phobia is metastasizing in real time as this
conflict is happening. How do you see how do you kind of track that and how are you seeing it change currently?
Yeah, So the numbers are you know, an analysis of data that we're pulling off platforms using you know, both third party tools tools. We have methodologies we have in house to do this kind of stuff, But when it comes to. I think what you're speaking to, Jack is like the mainstreaming effect of this stuff, and that's a lot harder to track. We are like actively at the drawing board on that, Like how can you quantify or like illustrate in an unobjectable way or undisputable way a
mainstreaming effect. So that's kind of a work in progress. But I will say generally, to see this kind of stuff also reflected in institutions and from individuals that should know better and have a lot of power and sway in society is totally disappointing. And a lot of research shows that when people in those positions of authority in a society make positive statements, you know, condemning this sort of thing, discouraging people from engaging in violence and that
sort of stuff, it actually does have an effect on people. Yeah, so it's to me when I see that kind of stuff reflected, I just think it's like a forfeiting of a certain moral responsibility than as a leader in a society, I think you should be compelled to right.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're seeing people resigning from The New York Times for expressing opposition to the killing of innocent palest Indian people. So yeah, it's a crazy time. Your organization recently released a report about white supremacy three point zero, which got me excited because I thought there might be some crypto that I could purchase involved with this because web three point oh, you know, you got to strike while the iron's hot, those prices are low. You got to buy the dip.
You know, you lost so many you know, you lost so much money on the apes.
You know, you gotta find it. You got to figure out how to make that bad.
I told him, I said, there's some racist imagery in that ship. To Jack, I don't know, I.
Said, I'm blind right now, So how much we bro?
But yeah, I mean like this is it is wild because yeah, like seeing this idea of white supremacy, white nationalism three point oh like was like, okay, wait, so we're doing we're talking about third wave racism basically, so one point oh being what like skinheads like that era, which was that what we call one point.
Zero, so one is yeah, kind of the old school before people started doing point ohs. Right, yeah, yeah, beta, uh you know the one point oh or I guess like like all right, one point oh that would be like the counter Currents blog Vdair Richard Spencer's of the World, because that was like, you know, these kind of like older folks, a lot of them were writers and whatnot.
Two point zero would be you know, sort of like Charlottesville and what happened after that, and a lot of one point zh types were like part of the two point zero. It's not like these are completely distinct groups or movements or whatever. And then like a three point oh now is you know, kind of its own mess. I think it maybe makes sense to think of it less in terms of like generations and maybe more in terms of tactics.
Right.
Right, the version one was all about like propaganda, you know, small groups on local levels whatever two point zher was, you know, that big attempt to go mainstream, really soaking in the Internet, using that to full advantage. And this three point zero is almost like a little bit of return to form, going back to that local model, but with like a whole host of baggage that came from like the years before.
Right, because like even the term right is coming from their movement. It's not something you guys like point yeah, it's not like we came up. We came it's like for their own internal purposes. Like we need a white nationalism three point zero for lack of a better word, and like for them, the aim is sort of to be able to make this their their ideology basically palatable to normal people. Is like kind of like a huge part of this three point oh push right.
Yeah, yeah, and you know you would think that, but actually it's you know, our it guy called us and was like, hey, we've we've got the leadst update for white nationalism. We have to refresh your computer. Yeah three point zh So.
I need you to sign on to team Viewer now or zend k man. I'm gonna walk youthing. Is this a scam?
No?
But like yeah, like it feels like like to your point, like the tactic now is like okay, maybe that didn't work. What we really need is to be able to just kind of blend in and seem normal, so this becomes an acceptable kind of ideology to subscribe to. And they have very like their tactics are different now too, even for recruiting, right.
Yeah, yeah, I mean so the report we're talking about is about something called active clubs, which we can talk about in a second, but more generally in the white supremacist movement and just far right movements overall. They've kind of realized something that the evangelical right has known for decades, that like any effective organizing in the last few decades, has understood very acutely, which is that winning a national office is hard. Running a candidate for president is hard.
You know, even state government positions can be tricky, but school boards, city council, you know, like trying to get a sheriff in, right, Like, a lot of these are local elections that are won by you know, in a lot of places. You know, maybe not a Chicago in LA or whatever, but like a lot of places in the US can be one with like a matter of a few hundred votes, right, So there's more opportunities to
take power there. And then you know, by harassing these low level governments and threatening people showing up at all these meetings, you know, going nuts, creating a hostile environment. A lot of these folks that ran for these local offices didn't sign up for that shit. They don't have resources to like be safe when that shit's happening, right, So a lot of them resign, Like a lot of election officials on the county level have resigned, you know, over the last few years.
I just saw a report about that recently, about how there's a lot of election officials that are resigning. People like buckle up for twenty four then, because this is exactly the kind of situation like extremists want.
Yeah, because there's a big opening, right, And if these offices are easier to win, if it's easier to get their policies through, like their dream vote policies or at the very least, smacking down policies they don't like. You know that, if that happens at scale, then the idea of national candidates of you know, big organizations starts to become more feasible.
Right.
It's it's like the most time tested way to gain political power, which is start at the bottom and work your way up.
Right, all right, let let's take a quick break and we'll come back. We'll keep talking about this strategy and we'll get into active clubs. We'll be right back, and we're back. We're Commanda Lund. You have a new podcast we mentioned up Top Keys to the Kingdom, by the way, well named I don't I don't often say that about about podcasts, but just a perfect name. But you're you are using your background as a Disney Park cast member as well as a bunch of research and interviews to
take people behind the scenes. And there's one story that popped onto our radar about people are apparently pooping all over the park in places they're not supposed to.
Yeah, I it was wild, how I like when we were putting together stories for the episode, like this story like literally dropped like yesterday on sf Gate, highly regarded journalistic outlet, by the way. And so the story is sort of going on a lot of stories that are being shared on Reddit by former cast members and guests that seem to overlap. So one person posted in like a Disney Stubreddit quote, I am in the queue for
Rise of the Resistance. Someone let their kid take a dump on the floor and then they just walked out and left it. WTF. Then someone replied for the skeptics, this actually happened. Fun fact, this was one of three shit related incidents at Rise today. Less fun fact I was here for all three of them. Wow, So it sounds like shit like this and the pun is intended. Has also happened on attractions like Flight of Passage at
Disney World. Someone said, quote, let's just say that the attraction I work at has what the cast ended up dubbing quote the poop Hall because of the amount of times guests have gone in there and pooped. We even put up a camera and it didn't stop it. No, I don't know how hyperboling it might be.
Courage is this must be because the lines are long and like perhaps, I mean, I'm not surprised. I've heard of one instance of this, but it was at Hong Kong Disneyland. Okay, then that was a friend told me a story. I think a guest maybe pooped in like a planter.
Yeah, okay, at least that's a planter versus right there in the line for right planter.
Good. Wait, are we not supposed to poop in the planters?
Okay, so you've been pooping in the planters?
Is that?
I mean?
I haven't.
I'm not going to say like I did it frequently, but like I thought that, Yeah, like fertilizer, good for the plant.
Let's just say his living room stinks, yeah, balancing on like the tiny little but at the custodial the custodial stuff.
At Disneyland, they've got stories and we actually this isn't poop related, but we talked to a Wall Street journal journalist who had written a story about people spreading ashes. Yeah, and that is a super common occurrence in the Haunted Mansion specifically. And here's just like a little tidbit. We talked about this in the last episode of the podcast. But when the custodial notices someone has spread ashes, they call it in over their little walkies as code grandma.
Oh my gosh.
But then they got in trouble for doing that, so they had to call it like whatever, code clean up, yeah something or grand m.
It's incredible that like that kind of stuff goes on.
And I don't know, I mean, I personally have never even really seen or smelled poop at Disney.
Yeah, well, they want to keep the princesses insulated from that sort of thing. It needs you to just believe the magic.
Yeah, and now that I say that, it's that's a lie because I did smell a lot of poop, poopy diapers, oh yeah, kids diapers.
Yeah, So I'm like, is it it?
I get that too, Like when you have thousands of little kids having to wait in long lines, shit happens.
There, you know, exactly, Like the needs they should have more bathrooms along the path of the line, because it's like, you know, I was at Disney World less than a year ago, and you know you are waiting for hours if you don't remember to like get your kids, like, get your kid to the bathroom beforehand. Like's at some point your four year old's going to be like, look, man, it's not It's not a question of if or when it's happening. It's a it's a question of where it's right.
You got you gotta bite the bullet and just be like, well, I just waited in a three hour line for nothing, right, right, right, which is fine, but then your kid's gonna be like upset about having to mess that.
But yeah, And I was curious if it's like because there's a lot of stories about adults going to the bathroom.
Two say you're like, hold on, what the fuck's going on?
It's not just kids, And I don't know if it's like are people having some kind of like mdico Auki phenomenon kind of thing, you know, like were people who have to like go to a bookstore and got to take a dump suddenly? Like are people just overwhelmed by the Magic Kingdom and like their bowels go fantasmic on them, or like what I think.
You might be Honestly, I think you might be onto something.
I feel like people are just so excited it right right, yeah, and like maybe the clam chowder doesn't help.
Not for me. That's what I do.
Too, just walking around with a bread ball of clan housing it, just housing it and then no spoon, no spoon, like a.
Fucking viking sipping out of my vanquished enemy's skull. And it's just as tough as that. Oh yeah, yeah, except it really gross and people are like, do you have to like slurp that like in line right in my ear? And like, look, it's I haven't been here in a while, but it sounds like the code system like is normal, right, because like you just said, there's code Grandma or whatever.
They altered it for spreading ashes, and there's also a code for feces, which is code H for like horse manure, so the custodial staff you'll clean up any like horseshit like on main Street. And now they also have human code H for the human variety, which is.
Human Code H is so foreboding. That's like that doesn't make me less curious what's going on. I'm following the employees who are like, we got a human coat h over here. We gotta like it sounds like it Tontown or something like it. Or there's like some sluent green thing happening.
Yeah, that's that's scary.
I bet they clean it up like so efficient efficiently that you like wouldn't even notice. Like I I heard a story that one time at Disney during Christmas. You know, they had those big like Clydesdale horses. Okay, so one of the horses like drop dead, and they put like a little tarp over it. But they don't obviously want just like a dead horse in the middle of main Street, so they surrounded the horse with Christmas carollers, oh my god, oh.
As a way to kind of like distract.
From like yeah, shut the fuck up.
Yeah exactly.
So I wonder if they do the same thing with like a little turd on the ground, if they'd be like quick Pinocchio, like go over there, like do some animation.
In front of the little turd and hat on it on top of it, just like it's nothing.
Because anything is it can be made a magical moment, you know, and that is what Disney does best.
Yeah, what's more whimsical than a pile of extremit with a Mickey hat. I can't think of anything else like that would that would probably right my day. I wonder like, do the people who run the show who are like, all right, get me twenty carollers over here and just have them circle the horse carcass and start like that's that's a sort of genius that I feel like, are are these people who like, what what is your background when you get to that position? Is your background like
being a casino pit boss? Or are you are you coming.
From like the world of Like you know, I've been involved in many kinetic situations in the Middle East, if you know what I'm saying.
They're probably coming from the Pentagon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the.
Pentagon is a revolving door between the Pentagon and be like controlling, like being the eyes in the sky at Disneyland and Disney World.
Think so.
But I think the road to getting like that job is just being a Disney adult and believing so heavily in the magic that you will do whatever it takes to protect the magic.
Including if a kid sees the dead horse, that kid needs to go because guys, he's going to get out into the world, start talking about it, and he's gonna just hit the magic a little bit.
Or what you do is you indoctrinate that child and you make sure they have a lifelong career in the company, right, like keep your enemies closer, oh right, right.
Right, absorb them. They're like, hey, kid, we got a lot of potential. Don't wait it out there in the real world. You should you should apply that here in the kingdom. What do you think if you ever get the sense that they're turning, you gotta you gotta take.
Care of that really quick.
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you're likely.
Yeah, and they and they do a thing. They're like, you don't want a bunch of carollers singing around you, right, focus on getting right.
End up spread around the hunted mansion and do Yeah, you take.
Him over to Tom Sawyer's Island.
Yeah, just take a little boat ride.
Take a little boat ride with me.
Yeah, this is the real grim.
So like a mob hitch on the canoes. You know this canoe that no one goes on.
Yeah, it's like, hey, let's let's go on a canoe, right.
To go fishing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. It's interesting too, Like even how like even the design of I didn't realize there are certain parts of the park that are like sort of acknowledging rivers of excrement, which I did not know.
This is alleged, alleged, I haven't.
In Liberty Square, there's a there's an odd brown path that is meant to hearken the sixteenth century when indoor plumbing didn't exist and represent the river of excrement that would have been flowing when people emptied their chamber pots. So they're like, I don't know if like this is what they're trying to do, Like it's supposed to look like an odd path, but like people with a historic lens, like that kind of looks like uh back in the day when people just dump their pooh and p out
the middle of the street and created a little sewage river. Yeah.
Yeah, the imagineers are really sick.
Oh you sick fucks. But yeah, I think to your point, like one clinical psychologist explanation behind like public defication includes anxiety and I think you know, kids getting ready to
go on a ride or even like adults. I saw some like pretty wild shit happened like as an adult got to the front of like the longest line I waited in when I was at disney World was like the ratitudey ride, and like there was an adult who like wanted their ride to go like exactly the way they had envisioned it, and so they didn't want to ride with anybody else next to them, and the people had to like kick them off the ride because they
were like fighting with them. It was like very very sad. Yeah, but it's just like too much.
People truly snapped, and you just also have to imagine like the the amount of people going through Disneyland, like on any given dal, Like their crowd control is so good that you don't even really can't even comprehend how many people are actually around you, and.
So just statistically, like some of those people are going to have.
A tummy ache, right, Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's also too it's kind of like, you know, I get the anxiety part because it's so fucking expensive to go to Disneyland disney World, and if you don't live in Florida or California, like that's an expense. People save a lot of fucking money to take their family to go have this experience, and I can just see how that can mount to a point where yeah, maybe you know, your stomach goes goes haywire a little
bit id to take a shit. But I mean it's like I feel like it's the same way, like right, like we were talking like earlier, like when the show first started. We're talking about how there's so many fights with parents at Chuck E Cheese and yeah, yeah, that's also because they serve alcohol. But a lot of people also point to the fact that a child's birthday couple with like maybe stressed finances and things like that can create like a high anxiety environment that can just go
off at any second. And I've seen recently like clips of like people fucking scrapping at Disneyland too, And you're like, I can see how like all of that can come together where it's coming out in like people getting aggressive with each other or maybe just vers.
Left, taking just a little poop, just squatting in line Pirate to the Caribbean, just like letting a few drop and then moving on your way, saying, Hey, it's my numbers up, I'm going to get on this ride.
Yeah, the money I'm paying I should be allowed to take a shit in this line.
Right, exactly right, And I get why too, Like that the person you're talking about, Jack, who knows how much money they spent, and like in their mind they're like no, no, no, your motherfuckers, oh me this, I'm going ratitude this fucking way, And you're like, well, we have like thousands of people in line here, like we can't really guarantee that. Yeah, people want to fucking lose it, but hey, I don't know, you know, And.
Like the Disney like business plan has been like I remember we were talking within the last year that like park attendance was down, and then it was revealed that was actually part of their plan because they just like charged so much money that people would actually stop coming in such high numbers to the park, and like it wouldn't the drop in attendance wouldn't offset the amount of money they were making, and it would make it like a better experience for the people there, except of course,
for the people who can't afford it, and are like Jesus like having a breakdown because they're realizing like they're putting too much pressure on this moment because they've gone into debt to accomplish it.
It's that's crazy.
I mean I was a billionaire, Like I would just become a Club thirty three member and like pay whatever thirty thousand dollars a year just to have that kind of like no line experience.
Yeah. Yeah, that's Club thirty three. That's real. That's a club at Disney that's like behind the scenes and it's invite only. Oh you get beat into it by Mickey Mouse and Pluto.
You have to name a bunch of cereals. Why they No, that's the Proud Boys when they're doing Sorry I get it mixed up sometimes.
But yeah.
I remember, like I had a friend who was like whose family was fully Disney brained as kids, and I remember they through somebody at their church they went to got the chance to go and eat at the restaurant and shit, and like, I like, for them, it was like ascending to the next level of existence. They're like
we're there, dude, Like, you'll never see it. It couldn't take pictures and like there are there are some pictures on the internet, but apparently those like totally unauthorized because they're not there's not supposed to have images of behoveted club.
I've been in I've done a few special events.
All right, Yeah, and worth it, worth of thirty grand I mean.
Of course it's amazing. There's a full bar, there's a buffet.
Ooh hey is it How close? Is how similar is the vibe to the Eyes Wide Shot party?
Oh it's quite there's quite a bit of overlap.
Yeah, single icy piano key the whole time you're walking in. Yes, like doctor mass All right, that's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist. Please like and review the show if you like. The show means the world to Miles. He he needs your validation.
Folks.
I hope you're having a great weekend and I will talk to you Monday.
Bye, suck sounding s