What's the etymology of the dream blunt rotation? I wonder who came up with dreams?
Shakespeare are very creative, I guess, yeah, right, I'll have to look more into it.
Yeah yeah, yeah, that was an etymologists. I'd just always be like Shakespeare man, right right, that's the fall back. Oh you didn't read that one. Well, guess who's stupid now it's you?
Or always just be like it's Latin dog Yeah, I mean nowadays it's eider k or Latin Yeah yeah?
Wait?
What is our?
Is our? Shakespeare?
What's kayson not given to us in the MA?
Like riz huzz phantom tax like all the popular jen alpha words.
Really yeah, realize that? Wait what is phantom tax?
It's like the same, this is what the episode is. Can be someone's food? Yeah yeah, it's just like stealing someone's food.
But do I have riz have it? Right?
There's I look by a junior high and whenever I walk out, when or walk by when the school gets out, they they all call me like, hey, dickhead.
But I think it's like cool.
That's the news lang word. It means it really cool.
Yeah, that's what I fucking thought. See my partner thinks they're just it's bad. I'm like, nah, I'm like that's right, dude, it's your dickhead.
Bro.
Yeah, you'll know partner doesn't know the Daily's like, guys, then that's right.
We're here reading the TVs.
A Jenna Alipha yesterday, I was like, all right, explained six seven, and he got so embarrassed, even though it's like nothing bad, it's just like it started.
Do you guys remember like twenty one, like the vine twenty one. It was like it was like a joke when I was in middle of school to say twenty one and like six seven is the new twenty one. That's just it's just like a funny number that doesn't mean anything.
Right, right, I mean we had sixty nine and it meant something.
Well, that made mean something.
Yeah.
Yeah, back in my day, nonsense numbers meant something.
Six and I wasn't going dupe doop okay, that shit met something.
I was going nice time and that's just what you did.
Oh yeah, we're going to open your bibles, Philippians.
Six nice check, Get out Jack, get out out of class.
Hello the Internet, and welcome the season four.
US have an episode two of Dirt Eily's Hey Guys, a production of iHeartRadio. This is the podcast where you take a deep bab into American share consciousness. And it's Tuesday, September twenty third, twenty twenty five.
Mm hmm, what's that. It's the Rapture. Hey, it's the Rapture.
Baby, bundle up.
Time to join Time to join them in the Kingdom of Heaven. Also shout out my boy Chris's birthday, National Teal Talk Day, National.
Six He'll talk snack stick Day, Okay, stick snackstick Day, So like stick if a stick is in the shape of if a snack is in a stick form, then a snack stick Day.
It's also National Great American Pop Pride Day. Also celebrate Bisexuality Day. It's also Energized Day, which sounds like some woo woo will miss shit oh because it's the day after the Oh shit is the equal We're fully in fall. I forgot about that part.
Oh was the equinox yesterday? Twenty second?
Yeah? Yeah, my favorite jee All.
Right, shout out to the Great American Popeye. My name is Jack O'Brien aka you can Go and you I Go and you a that one. Courtesy of Kai who said to the tune of Go Your Own Way by Fleewood Mac. I think Jack said he used to say and ui because he had only seen the word in text on we Yeah. I was aware of both. I was aware of on WII.
Oh.
I was aware of the word in ui that I just hadn't connected the cool sounding French word with the word I saw on texts that meant a certain vague, frenchy existential boredom. I was like theod they should make those the same word. Yeah, Alas, I'm thrilled to be joined as always buy my co host, mister Miles Grime.
Miles akaa crimey. My gene's so frozen day shiny, No hand washing line dry in frozen crust is dripping like dime is crimey because you know, putting jeans in the freezer, no matter what the stain is or the situation and not a great way to clean your genes. Okay, So I'm just gonna put that out there, Just put that out there.
I need is a cryo chamber and a chiseling to get all the dirt and shit off my jeans. Miles, We're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a linguist who you know as the etymology nerd on social media. His new book out Everywhere now is I'll go speak how social media is transforming the future of language. It's Adam Alexe. Hello, Am.
I supposed to have a musical intro as well?
Yes, oh, Adam, I don't have any Come on, man, improvise something now. It's fine. It's great to have you here, man. Yeah, thanks for thanks for taking the time to be here.
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like this is a it's an interesting time because this over the last year, I feel like we've gotten really into like gen Z Jen alphis Lang and just going what the fuck are they talking about? Are they okay?
Am?
I okay? Uh? And yeah your area of expertise lines up perfectly with that perfect Yeah.
I'm a skibbitty scholar.
Oh yes, yes, and I'm Professor Chimpanzeini by Nanini at your service.
And I don't know what you guys are talking about anyway.
Jack and Jack We're gonna talk about all.
Of that plenty more. We're also gonna get into maybe a news story about flying cars, but mainly we want to talk to you about language and how it's rotting the brains of our youth or is it. No, we're not going to talk. We're not going to say that, but before we get to it, we do like to ask our guest, what is something Adam from your search history that's revealing about who you are.
I just checked my search history and the most recent thing was Trila leo trala la high resolution?
Wait, I red is like the image of it?
Yeah yeah, I mean you gotta have the high definition version of it? First academic presentations? Is that your favorite Italian brain run character? I think that's the most indicative of the genre. It was the first one that I encountered, so to me as a special value.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm more of a tum tum tum sah or guy myself.
Oh he's great too.
Yeah.
I guess for those that don't know, I don't know why you're not caught up, but it's like a shark wearing shoes and.
Work on yourself. Yeah yeah, yeah, shark wearing sneakers on his pectoral fins.
Right, I know, he's got straight up lest he's got it's actually hybrid.
Yeah, it kind of varies sometimes it looks like yeah, but Anyways, he got shoes on.
He signed that Nike deal man Phil Knight got to him quick. He's like, man, I want in the fucking swoosh now.
And as you're like reading the trends in language, are you ahead of the curve? Are you like basketball? Like the weird basketball savants who saw Lebron James as a twelve year old and we're like, this guy's the next.
Christ, next guy's the next note.
It's like, that's such a weird skill to have, but amazing that they were able to call that at age twelve. Did you see Italian brain rot? And we're just immediately knew that this was the future.
I genuinely think I'm more tapped in than your average linguist for sure at this point because I publicly comment on where words come from. People will like tag me in videos where new words are being used, so I sort of have that opportunity to see it before it goes viral. Then I sort of get to monitor it over time. I think there is like I do have maybe that awareness before most people, but Italian brain rot I was like a little early curve life.
Over like Thanksgiving in the holidays. I will be around some jen Alfa relatives. What's what's some like new wave shit? I can kind of hit them with.
So I think you just got to be talking to them. That's exactly it. They're more tapped in than we could ever possibly be because they are the ones that are defining the culture and it just revolves around them.
Okay, Okay, so.
You're in a room with twelve year olds and you're just listening.
We should just start, Yeah, pay attention to them, learn from them, you know, maybe interview them. I'm trying to get up on site. That's why I'm hanging out in the middle.
It's clearly an academic what do you I hate not knowing what Ohio means.
Yeah, the Skibbty thing that we've dug into that, the fact that there is an entire Michael bay fictional universe in the works, in the Skibbity works. Very confused by that one. I do. There's a certain artistic beauty about the Italian brand I'm very confused by. I guess the skivity toilet shit could be like Didesta a little bit, but it's very confusing to me. Anyways, I can't wait to see the films. Uh from my favorite filmmaker Michael Bay. What is something you think is underrated vibes?
I think like I come from a background of academic linguistics, where people tend to over categorize things and don't recognize that things have feelings, Like you have a feeling about a word, which is why you adopt.
It, right, what's wait? So what's like sort of like the overly academic.
So I think the most famous, like example of vibes in linguistics is like buba and kiki. We all feel like the word buba is round and the word kiki is sharp, and yet the standard models don't really have like an explanation for that. I think all of languages kind of vibe based that, like we have feelings about words and whether we like them or not, and that's why we actually adopt them.
I was with somebody recently who is like, your name is either this name or this name, and they're like, oh, Miles is totally this same thing. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I'm like I became old. I'm like, my name is my name, it's not I forget what it was. But they're like these two distinct names or they felt like vibe wise groups.
Your name fit into one vibe or the other.
But then it's interesting because I feel like vibes are a little subjective too, So like I got this.
Like I've seen a lot of discourse about like does someone's name like sound like it belongs to them, which is like completely a vibe based thing. But like if it doesn't, people make nicknames, or they make longer names, or they like replace it that like that's how vibes work.
Mm hmmmm, yeah, Adam, I feel like kind of a soft has a soft name to it. Miles has a nice soft feel to it, Like I'm the first dude that's not yet. No, sure you're soft, bro.
Well it's interesting with like names, with names, especially like fifty percent of Gen Alpha names end in an N for boys, like why you know, like the Mason, Carson, Jackson, Grayson, Like these are the most popular Gen Alpha names, And it's because parents right now have a vibe that a masculine name ends in an end. That's literally it, it's all vibes based.
They need to know it's my son. Jack Son is very important to me. What is something you think is overrated?
Efficiency? I think I spend a time a lot of time studying algorithms, studying how people optimize for things, and I don't think that's where we find meaning. And things like uber eats, like delivering something straight to your doorstep. You don't experience the friction that makes life feel worth living. You don't bump into your friend in the street, you don't interact with your local community. The efficiency of algorithms and how everything is streamlined in society is kind of boring to me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, unless you're yeah, unless you hate running into people you went to high school with in public when you're high and you just want to get taco bell just just quietly, there's a time and playece.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found people to be an impediment to the efficiency of commerce, and so yeah, that's why I'm really excited about this new direction that our society has taken. This This actually gets to kind of my first question for you is just you know the difference between I mean, I feel like you did a post on like quant speak and like how the the language of efficiency is sort of bleeding in, Like I one example that I've noticed, I don't know if
this would be categorized the same in Yearbook. But like the phrase replacement level is a thing that I've like from the world of sports analytics, which is just like, yeah, they're like an average player, but it like adds this sort of dark fascist like Thomas the tank engine thing, where like everybody is just replaceable and CHANGEABI. Yeah, yeah, people as commodities. Like so I do I notice that as a as a newish trend sort of vying with
the more broad trends of like language. It seems too historically and even modern like today feel it's like a democratic phenomenon. It's like not top down and it's you know, it comes from like teenagers or like frequently persecuted minority groups, and like it's a way for people without officially sanctioned power to like weird wield their creativity and like power, which is I think beautiful. And that's what you see with a lot of these linguistic trends that scare people online.
But then yeah, I do see also, you know, whether it be the world of like you know, like analytics people are stat people, or just like the corporate world, you know, creating these new phrases. I feel like that's sort of an interesting like dark and light side battle that we see in linguistics happening all the time. Do you think about it that way at all?
That's so interesting No.
I think there's each community always finds the best way to speak for that community, and it changes as the vibe changes. Again, I think the vibe is important here. It's very probably true that since the moneyball era started the sports language has got more about like quantifying things, and you're talking more about things like RBIs than you used to. Probably, right, people care about stats a lot more. I think as communities have shared values, language emerges to
reflect those values. So the video you were referencing was about how math nerds and cs people kind of find streamline optimized ways of communicating. I think that's definitely true, because their goal is to find efficient ways, maybe mathematically, to express things. Same things happening with middle schoolers, right. Middle schoolers are just vibing in that they are using language to connect with other middle schoolers, to differentiate their
identity from adults. And that distinction between top down and bottom up is kind of constant that we always impose like a layer, like through dictionaries or through formal rules of what language is supposed to be, but then in reality that doesn't fit onto everybody, and then different communities find their own ways of expressing themselves.
Right, Yeah, I feel like, I mean it's a fit. Right.
They're trying to find the most efficient way to communicate, but they're also trying to make each other laugh and trying to impress people, you know, And like there's this book about the evolution of birds and the role of beauty and like how birds evolved, and so like, you know, we tend to think of, you know, the way evolution works and as like the survival of the fittest being, like you know, it's just everything is a something that was evolved to like feed or like defeat or dominate
the other side. And it's like, you know, a lot of the stuff that birds have evolved to do is just to be like beautiful in a way that is like attract some other mate, you know. And so I feel like, similarly, in language, you have how to most efficiently communicate your meaning, but also how to do so in a way that is just like fun, you know, and like makes people laugh and makes people impressed by your creativity a little bit.
Yeah, I don't think everything is about efficiency, right, I think it can also be you're joking, you're kind of trying to communicy that your chill or laid back, those those things aren't efficient. If you're being efficient, that it isn't chill or laid back. And I don't know, like surfer communities, like we'll talk differently than the quants, you know, because they have a different goal in mind, they have a different vibe of how they're approaching language.
Yeah, it does feel like teenagers, Like how we experience language being spoken by teenagers today and then how we actually use language those spoken by teenagers in years past is like kind of you know, people don't realize how much of our modern dialect is just created by sort of younger people. Or you know, I've heard people talk about upspeak being a thing that was started by teen girls and criticized and criticized and criticized, and until the
people criticizing it, we're also doing it with upspeak. You know, how do you like it is that sort of a constant in your study of like how language evolves, or also like persecuted minority groups like you.
See you seem to really know what's happening that it often does come out of these minority groups because they have the biggest reason to defy the hierarchical imposition of language, because that's not their version of language. The language that's being imposed is like the super straight, white old man version of language. So minority groups, women, they're going to want to eventually talk different than than they do, and
then they're kind of scrutinized by these other people. Except these young people and the marginalized communities are the ones that are actually generating the new language. And sometimes that leaks into the mainstream and then it gets adopted, and then it gets institutionalized, and then we once again forget like that it came from that group. This is a time honored process that we see over and over again. But yeah, you seem to really have a good graph
of that. I think we have a tendency to call things brain rot right, and the idea that words are bad for your brain, it's kind of funny. I think brain rod is also a meme aesthetic, and to be fair, the words that are spreading right now fit into that meme aesthetic really well. And the aesthetic is like pointing back to the algorithm and how the algorithm is bad for our brains. And these words are coming from the
algorithm risk, ivideo high do bichocolate, la, booboo, macha. You know, all of those are memes brought to us by the algorithm. And the words are funny because they're like algorithmic words. But I don't think the words themselves are bad. But you know, we do have this tendency to call language bad, and we've been doing it time and time again. And you go back to the nineteen hundreds and there are articles about people like being upset at words that we now find normal.
Right right, I wonder too, like if it's kind of you know, we we sort of speak the same way, especially as kids, because you're referencing something in pop culture or like sort of in group as like young people. This is like a shared experience or value. And I wonder too, because, like I was trying to think, like, what the fuck was I saying? That would have even been perceived as brain rot quote unquote, like because again this is all generationally cyclical, where the like they go,
what are the kids talking about these days? And I'm like, I wonder too, because like in the eighties and nineties, there was really a very limited amount of content movies TV that's sort of a lot of people were experiencing at the same time. With the Internet, it becomes so much more specific that suddenly like everyone knows Ace Ventura
or everyone knows the Budweiser frogs. So being like or saying like still to this day, yeah, same or alrighty, then is again the same way we were just saying some dumb shit because it's from this thing you like,
not because you're like that's the way I talk. You're like, we're saying the thing from the thing we like that now because there's so many different like sort of inputs for like what that what can affect someone's language or the kind of content that they have an affinity for, that's that Now it's like people are like, well, I don't know fucking skimmity of toilet, So what the fuck is skimmity toilet?
You know?
Literally, I think you is a really a good point about like media and the role that media plays in our adoption of slang, and it's always been based on what we're consuming. So when hip hop in the nineties was influencing language, people would say things like fo shizzle and then to this when you know, movies were influencing culture people. It's you know, was up, you know the
millennials laying that doesn't really stick around. Some of it does stick around, you know, words like cool emerge from minority communities and now just like a part of language. But vine I think in twenty fourteen people were saying things like bay fam on fleek way more. Sometimes those are still around, but I think largely they were a fat in the general population, and same thing is happening now with TikTok. Some of the words are going to stick around, some of them aren't.
Yeah, I also wonder if they're having to like if we're seeing this moment of exploding you know, slang that is like kind of extra inscrutable because everybody, like the as miles as you were talking about, like what were the words that we said to like define ourselves away from like previous generations. It was a lot of like swearing, right.
Like yeah, you know just to this day, yeah, terrible, terrible, no.
But now the fucking president like swears and like the vice pread you know, they're constantly swearing. So like I feel like you need new tools that aren't just this standard old tools of like saying bad words. But like you have to like create your own sort of aggressive words that like won't be used by the president, you
know what I mean. Yeah, I wonder if that that is pushing the young people to like have to get extra creative and like create new ways of speaking, because literally everybody says.
For everything's on the table.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're kind of right that like absurdism is the only option here, and the importance of identity formation because young people are always trying to build a shared identity for themselves that's different from the identity of adults, because they're trying to figure out who they are in the world.
That's normal.
That's why young people are always the ones that are coming up with slang, whereas old people have a crystallized idea of who they are and what language is. But in a world where I think things are overly structured, like through algorithms which force feed us like the content that makes them money, and through like I think society
is structuring things a lot more. But at the same time, we have this uncertainty of about what's going on, and then we turn to obsurdism in the same way, I think you're right to point out dadaism in like the nineteen tens. I think that's a really good analogy. There was a kind of that period of uncertainty going on as well.
Yeah, let's take a quick break now that you've said something I said was a good point for just let people, you know, rest with that, think about.
Something a good point too.
I know. Yeah, we're fucking killing it high flight you so hard. What's the score right now? Just text me the score. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back to continue talking about this, and we're back. We're back and yeah, so first of all, I think, like this seems like a great corner. I just want to congratulate you, like just such a good time, such
a wealth of material. It's like, you know, you're trying to study a culture, like it's just like the Internet is like a real time live like gig where you can just like watch all of the things happening, all of the different tools being used by the culture that
you're studying. There, there's definitely, as Miles you alluded to, like there we see a lot of stories about education sliding in the United States and that being associated with how people use language or just like I get I guess everything just gets associated with like well, this this generation is bad, just look at them. But I don't know, I feel like that's a time honor tradition that happens
with every every generation. But this generation is particularly screwed, but not not because of Italian brain rot.
I would asume, Yeah, well, I think just to like preface all that, like there's this, you know, the group that comes out like with the Nation's report Card, like if you know the Nation's report Card dot gov, which is like a congressional you know, congression funded thing where they assess just sort of like what the educational system is like and how students are performing. Like the most
recent one was pretty bleak. They're basically saying like twelfth graders have like they are reading at their lowest level since this even process began of assessings in nineteen ninety two, and the math scores are as as the lowest they've been in twenty years. And I think, you know, a lot of people want to point to different things. They'll be like, well, it's the pandemic lockdowns, or it's social media, or it's the dang fucking skibbitty toilet nonsense that's doing
it all. But again, we've seen these trends sort of they predate COVID and a lot of these other things because I think, you know, there's been a systematic defunding of public education and now we have like a literal villain from entertainment wrestling who doesn't know AI from a one stake sauce sort of at the wheel. So don't
see much happening to that trend. But I think again, there's like this a cycle, but right now it does kind of fit with the sort of bleak assessment that, yes, while our education system is in a pretty dark era right now, it's not always like this thing to lay at the feet of just basic like and that's why they talk in this way where I don't understand the words. Back when I was working at the Triangle Shape shirtwaist factory, we weren't talking like that.
Maybe one of my hottest takes is that literacy is a little bit of a construct. I think it, to
be clear. I think it's incredibly important we should have incredible literacy rates in math education and all that really does matter, but also it's a metric of how proficient we are in the medium of reading, which is sort of let's be really honest with ourselves in the cultural moment, it's sort of a dying medium, and we also are facing and consuming content in other mediums like algorithms, and I think these Skippity generation kids are more literate in
the algorithmic medium than a lot of boomers are. They know like sort of oh, this looks AI generated, and boomers are getting tricks by like Ai slop Jesus shrimp on Facebook in twenty twenty two. They don't know what's happening at all. The boomers do understand algorithms nearly as well as Jen Alfa does. So I would say there's a high literacy in a different medium because that medium
is more president in our society. Unfortunately, that does mean a decreased maybe literacy, and I think it is related. Because we're consuming algorithms, we are less literally. I think that's probably true. But it also has to do with the role of media in our society, and books shouldn't be the only paragon of epistemic wealth in our society. Of like information that we are consuming, we should be
literal in all forms of media. So that means I literally think there should be classes in how to look at TikTok, and at the same time, there should be classes in how to read books because of the more different types of information we can consume, the better it is overall.
So are you necessarily saying like it's overblown that literis like reading comprehensives, Like you're just saying there, maybe zoom out a bit, because.
I don't want to say anything that could be construed as I don't think it's important to read in them, and I think we should really have good literacy rates, but I think we should also be paying equal attention
to being literally in algorithms. And I think like media literacy is something people talk about but as a buzzword, and they don't really understand what that means to really be fluent in what it means to engage online and to go viral because there are so many like outside forces manipulating our understanding of reality in the online space,
literal government psyops, there is just AI flooding things. You don't know what's real and what's not real, And it's that kind of literacy where you can understand how to engage.
Right, So you're saying, just sorry not to take us back, but you're saying that that Jesus made out of shrimp was not real. That wasn't actually.
Just it looks just exactly like that looks so much.
I think whenever we talk about kids not being literate in books, we should also be talking about boomers not being literate on TikTok.
Yes, yeah, or TikTok filtered down to Facebook, which.
Right right to facebooks, which is like diluted TikTok slottery.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the worst.
Yeah, I do. Like so, I feel like etymology sometimes gives us these weird like windows into history speaking of boomers. Like lately, I've been pointing out how dumb I feel when I use the word movies ever since I realized what that word like, the etymology of that. Like we joke about all people calling movies talkies right because they're like, god damn, that moving picture just talked, but not realizing the reason we call them movies is because god damn that picture just moved.
It's like fucking things moving kill it.
Are there other words like that where they like give you a portal into just like how different people were, like either stupid or simpler, or just like how different perception.
Yeah, well, I was just reflecting on Instagram reels, like what's the real? Real used to be a film reel, which was a literal like spool of film that was reeled around like a fishing reel, and then that got abstracted to the sense of this clip that you watch, and then that got abstracted to the thing you scroll on Instagram meals. And in fact, now that I just said, the word scroll, scroll comes from unfurling like a scroll like the field. Like that's still how I consume Instagram.
But yeah on skull, Yeah, use your wooden dowels.
What do we have today?
Yeah?
Or a podcast being iPod plus broadcast, broadcast being a style of communication where you disseminate information like it used to be broadcast seeding and agriculture, which is a style of dispersing seeds. So like this agricultural metaphor goes all the way back and influences the word podcast. I don't know, turn up the volume. We don't often turn a knob anymore or hang up the phone. I often don't hang
things anymore. Like that, we have these sort of vestiges in our language, and that's kind of what's compelling to me about etomology that it tells this story about who we were in the past and how we've evolved as a culture.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. One thing, just going through some of your posts on butterfly.
Wait, let me stop you on the word post, Like, why do we call it a post?
What's up with that?
It used to be like physically something was nailing to a post.
Yeah, yeah, wall in the town I was just noticing this actually made me sad. I was noticing at my doctor's office, like in the hospital, the waiting room they called the town square because they're like trying to appropriate I guess the language of community and stuff, which I
feel like is all over the place. That like, as we're being kind of converted into these little, you know, cellular beings of like consumption and you know that just being isolated from one another, I feel like that people are like trying, or like corporations are like trying to just like gesture at like old style community things to just be like, hey, guys, like we're we're all part of the same community hanging out in a town square. Wait,
so hosting things to one another? Would you like check in for employment then like okay, have a seat in the town square in the town Square and you're like these chairs. I was like yeah, and then every time he just sits there and waits for their name to come up on a screen.
I think there's a lot of like community buzzwords. I don't know in the content creation space. I'm so sick of the word authenticity, Like we all know we want authenticity, but they throw around that word like like it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Yeah, that's the part that I'm really like in hearing you talk about algorithms, and also just like how algorithms are informing how people speak that you know, like so there is so much power in these algorithms and some people I think maybe are aware of it, and maybe others somewhat aware but to a lesser extent, maybe not fully understanding, like that these are being manipulated for someone
else's gain a lot of the time. But like you know, I was struck by your ted talk when you talked about how like algorithms find a way to quickly like go get people into this higher compartmentalization, and that the algorithm point of these algorithms is to sort you more easily, and that the idea that you know when you get into something and you're saying, like, oh, I'm into cottage core,
gork core fashion or whatever. Now it's like like you said, you're like the algorithm actually gave you that identity based on what you were interacting with. And that's like a really just sort of mind fuck kind of thing too, that people are also chasing algorithmic words to a get their content we've seen more or to be more popular.
And I see this a lot in especially like sports talk on YouTube, or I just see it a lot in any YouTube where it's about commentary, where people know that using certain words or certain talking points or certain topics as outrage bait is just how you get more eyeballs, like on your shit. But it's no longer sincere expression, because now you are completely chasing the algorithmic goal of relevance.
And like you know, when I like, I'm curious now like no one is just saying how they feel in certain against certain genre like YouTube content, No one exactly says how they feel. They just see they just say what they believe will get increased engagement. How do you see like that playing out? Just sort of as we go down the road, like as sort of this way of thinking becomes more consolidated or like one track because it's it used to be it's like, well, this person's
interesting and people are interested in what they're saying. And now it's like, no, I need to say these five words to get my shit up and the algorithmic ratings and then that's how I will become relevant.
Yeah, well, I mean we're definitely performing for the algorithm. There's this idea of like signaling not only to your audience, but like using words as metadata, because the algorithm reads everything when you upload it. It knows that you're using certain words and will use those words to target your audience. Metadata is and just like hashtags anymore, it's anything that gives information about content and the video itself. The words
you use in the video are information. So it all becomes part of this loop of the algorithm being able to categorize more, identify more, pin you down as a person better. Right, And we are playing into that. I will say, like people have always been performing and playing into the like I think TV broadcasters are really fake, Like they don't they're performing.
I don't know anyone who speaks like this ATAM right.
They're performing for the idea of how you're supposed to talk on TV, and I think influencers are performing for the idea of how you're supposed to talk on social media. When I write a book, I'm speaking in formal English, which is not really how I speak in normal life, but I'm performing for the idea of how you're supposed to write a book. All of it's a little bit fake. I think it's okay to reconcile that fakeness with recognizing that we are going to communicate differently in each medium.
That being said, let's take a step back and look at what these algorithms are doing. And yeah, it's really weird that they run under a system called techno feudalism where they simultaneously like are we create the product, we consume the product, and we are the product. And all they do is they find more ways to put us into boxes and understand how we fit into this product space,
and everything is commodified. All of our language is evolving through this con humorous lens of what can make the algorithms money.
Just extract value through like you know, observation and like selling information about you or selling something directly to you, like and you're just like kind of they're dancing for them.
You can't communicate without generating value for them. To go viral is to help the.
Platform, right, And that's what and that's what excites me about this is that growing value for Yeah, what value?
What could we be talking about right now, Adam, Just so I can maybe up our algorithmic score, which would be talking about.
All right, I think we're past the summer of the machula boo, do buy chocolate, But I don't mind saying one more time, just in case.
We try to much a little bit a little bit of chocolate. Uh huh, trying average like three of those six And to be clear, six seven doesn't mean anything, right.
It's kind of like skimmitty, It's just funny.
Yeah, yeah, I just looking back looking back at as I was mentioning some of your posts on like the origin of butterfly names, because that's something that I.
Have a seven year old. Seven year olds are very curious about, Like this is a naturally fascinating subject matter for just I think all humans, and like my seven year old this morning was asking me for the origin of fifty cents name because his like art book had a piece of art that had like fifty cents head on a cockroach's body. He's like, who's that? Why is he called fifty cent? Like they just you know, they constantly want to know why is everything called everything?
But a textbook has a fifty cent bug me?
No, No, it's like an art It's like a street art book that we before him. He didn't like. It's not through school, got it, got it, got out when curriculum is taken off. Yeah, things are fucking cool now in a second grade. But butterflies come up a lot because every time we see a butterfly come through, I need to know name and the derivation. I was looking at one of your posts and uh so too. Two names that I think are like interesting little portals into history.
One is California's Sister, which I just thought was a cool name because I just think it's cool to call people brother and sister, and uh it's but it's actually just like a nun. People are like that. That looks like a nun's habit because it's black and white, and which is I guess a window into history when like forty percent of all humans you'd encounter on a daily basis for like priests and nuns. So that was like the only recdude, I was.
I was thinking about the word habit the other day. It's crazy that you brought that up, because habit like like a routine, like a thing that we do that comes from the sense of like clothing that like nuns would wear.
It was just like so weird.
It's like a routine that of them to put on I have Fun's habit. Everyone to start calling that a habit to do something as a routine, it crazy.
It's just nuns all the way down. When you go back to history.
They were the first drag queens given us the culture back then.
It's the worst quentin, It's just the least. But then the other one that was like the opposite of that was painted lady, which I always thought was just like a pretty sounding word, but it's a historical word for sex workers, which yeah, so you have to.
Like understand or flies in both extremes.
Yeah, yeah, you have to understand history through the prism that people were I feel like, usually starving, usually slightly drunk, and just ravenously horny at all times, and so like painted Lady, they were just.
Like what's really different?
Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, I think just less starving maybe and less drunk for sure, but still incredibly horny. But the fact that they saw a butterfly and we're like.
That speaks to their reality. I think what we name things, it really is an indicator of what's going on.
You know.
If we're naming things absurdly right now, that's because there's something deeply dissonant with our current understanding of society. And so I don't think six' seven is like some arbage. THING i think it's you, know it's reacting to the current state of.
Modernity, yeah or in the official version of, things it's actually just the height of the president and that's why they're referencing six seven And takashi six. Wrong.
Cool. YEAH i think one thing is just so funny to me is like we're looking at how eleven year olds talk and then being like society's, cooked and you're, like they're fucking, eleven you know WHAT i?
Mean there's this justw.
Eleven year old's talking is how eleven year old's, talk and everybody starts using.
It and YET i think there's something deeper to what these eleven year olds find. Compelling if you look at skibbity, toilet for, example it's a story diegetically narrated through the lens of a camera headed, android and these camera headed creatures are interacting with other cameras like with, iPads and they're fighting this fictional series of. Toilets but what that means is it's a state of technology versus the basist thing you're taught is like the bad where bad things,
go which is the. Toilet so it's like this law force. Versus, yeah well it literally if you're An Michael bay, version you're like, shit and we should be doing a critical reading of skivity. TOILET i think you're an iPad in a state of. Technology like you you understand that like this is some deep reflection of their state of.
Reality.
YEAH i was reading a lot about death earlier this, year and just like you, know our fear of, death and historically it's very connected to shit because it's like that's the most base like human like animal body thing that. Happens, though like you can't deny that you're just an animal that's going to die in the context of, shit you, know it's just like so far from anything. Else so that that's. Interesting also that like that is you know this higher level like robot camera headed thing that is
like what people feel like they're in evolving. Toward and then the enemy is head in toilet like human animal, dead you, know dying shit. Body.
INTERESTING i feel, like, Yeah i've never thought about this, lens that skimpy toilet is a confrontation of her own. MORTALITY i think that's a very poignant point you.
RAISED i WAS i saw like early case studies When picassa was doing The guernica AND i felt like there was a skibbity toilet in. There replaced it with a conforded. Mother but, yeah this.
Is shoes right.
Now that's, crazy you, Are, yeah damn.
Crazy, YEAH i should invest in skibbity shoes as. Well, yeah or maybe just put make skibbity toilet like The. GUERNICA i feel like that crossover you put. Scar really the point is that it's. Synonymous it's the horrors of war and technology and. MODERNIZATION i think that's the lens to read it through. That you know, why it is this period of time when we look At Marcel douchamp's, fountain you, know that's a urinal and we go back to we're talking about dataism in the modern. State it's very.
Related, YEAH i. Agree let's take one more quick. Break we'll be right, back and we're, back all. Right just one last. Question as people are facing the existential horrors of LIKE, ai we've seen people try to like create a robot slur of like, clanker WHICH i. Don't i've seen people be, LIKE i like, It it's gonna.
WORK i.
DON'T i don't know that it is going to, Work but, like how how do you feel like language is evolving both in how people like obviously the corporations really want us to love and EMBRACE, ai and THEN i think there's probably like some deep seated discomfort around, that and THEN ai is going to change how we use. Language how are you thinking about?
That this comes back to that THING i was talking about vibes and the cultural moment and how language is not some arbitrary, thing but it responds to greater. Pressures clanker is here because there is a greater societal concern about the rising role OF aa in our. Culture that's that's why we Are since earlier earl this, year people were like trying to find us slur for. ROBOTS i remember tweets people saying, like, oh we need a slur for,
robots and then clinker went. VIRAL i think in part it went viral because it was used an analogy to THE n, word and that generated more, comments which are more, engagement which pushes it further in the.
Algorithm but all those people are, like, DAMN i really really love using a, slur, right.
The slur and then the discourse about how it's being used as a slur also helps push the word. Further and it's all in a kind of a positive feedback loop of words getting pushed into the mainstream by influencers who are using it because they know it's going viral and just a. Trend AND i call it the engagement. Treadmill you, know there's like a word it's. Trending people use the word because it's, trending becomes more. Trendy that's like the cycle we're.
In yeah, Right, yeah it's a fun one, too and we enjoy it and we all love it and we're. Excited we're excited for the.
Future it feels like so much energy to be like, clankers like as if it's that, Impressive like it's individualized enough to be like that clanker over. There it's LIKE ai just fucking. Sucks but again that's your generational take. Too you're anthropomorphizing, it WHICH i think is. WEIRD i don't think we should be treating these these things as.
Humans and it's strange to me that you, know it's designed Chat schipet's designed like a text messaging. Conversation it's designed to trick you into. Thinking it uses first person, pronouns it's going to mirror your linguistic. Responses. Uh and because it's psychologically designed to trick you into thinking that it's human so that you believe it more or you interact with it, more and we kind OF i Think clanker elevates, it if, anything to a near human, level which is so strange to.
ME i think it's again LIKE i was, saying like it makes it seem more impressive than it, is because, like, no that's. This we're not talking about like the FILM ai or something or something out of Like Isaac asimov's Like Worst nightmares or. Something this is just like people are falling for like this chat based party trick.
Thing, yeah and, yeah it's. Sue there are sub. Credits there's like MY r slash my boyfriend IS ai OR r SLASH ai, soulmates where people genuinely have fallen in love with THEIR ai companions and it's like on. Ironic they really think this is like a real, thing and
they're like being. Persecuted like, so, LIKE i think part of these concerns With clanker are genuinely founded and people EXPERIENCING ai psychosis and having a shattered grip on reality because you're interacting with machine which is trained to be in a positive feedback loop of reinforcing your biases and your cognitive, fallacies and then you think it's.
Real it's, love hete you, know LIKE i get mad at him AND i call him, clanker but he lets me use it because he's, like we're actually it's.
Okay i'm married my Daughters Havel, Clanker so you, Know i'm all right IF i say, that you know, WHAT i go to The clanker, cookouts you know WHAT i. Mean, so, Yeah i'm. Good i'm.
Good but, yeah it's a part of the same illusion where it's actually just the forces of capital with like a mask on that makes it like clever and you, know friendly and kiss your ass like. NonStop that's Basically, yeah that's.
A common theme of modern language is the forces of.
Capitalism, yeah, yeah all, Right, Well, adam wonderful having you on the. Show where can people find? You follow you find your? Book read you all that good.
Stuff i'm etymology nerd on, platforms BUT i think my Book i'll Go speak says it. All hopefully more people are still reading.
Books, yeah go check it out. Anywhere go to a you, know local bookseller if you, can but it's it's everywhere books are. Sold is there a work of media that you've been.
Enjoying, yeah, Well i've been trying to connect with the non algorithmic, stuff having spent so much time on, algorithms trying to reconnect more of the. Album i've been listening to a lot Of stevie wonder. RECENTLY i think more people should listen to songs in the key of, life such an.
Album, yeah what are you like it on that?
Album if we're talking about, vibes that is a vibe. Album that is it's such a message of. POSITIVITY i, THINK i mean kind of go through like all of, life like, pain, breakup but he wraps in this message of love AND i think it's really beautiful and it's also influenced so much you know, else like The Mario kart soundtrack is based on. It The Gangs Paradise. Paradise yeah. Yeah the song Saturn by says that comes From saturn
By Stevie. Wondering so he's influenced our, culture but he's done through uh this in a message of like, love AND i think that's really beautiful and it is possible to positively influence. Culture SO i think it's a good.
Album, yeah all, Right i'll give it to. Him he's all, Right i'll check out The.
Wonder, Guy, Miles where did people find? You is there a workimedia you've been?
Enjoying, wait we see the guy who was on stage THE mtv VM a is Doing Wild Wow. West.
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's where you Know i'm. From.
Guy, yeah he's a. Musician, ALSO i thought he almost got exploded by an on stage.
Pyrotechnic, dude do your own. Research he's actually on right. Right will also borrowed From Stevie. WONDER i just saw him do a sick. Freestyle the guy who had the really supportive. Fans, yeah that looked kind of had weird hands in that one.
Video Will Will Smith Will, yeah, Yeah i'm pretty sure the part that he borrowed From stevie wonder was where he goes.
Wiki wow Wow wicky Wow. WOW i don't know a ton About, yeah find me everywhere at miles Of. Gray check me talking about ninety day fiance on four to twenty Day fiance. One one work of media like this post on blue sky k nibs k and ibbs dot be scout Out. SOCIAL i just said one of the one of the downsides of impulsively getting my husband a python For Father's day has been opening up the fridge to this sort of. Thing and it's like a normal shot of a, refrigerator but you look inside and just
box just says mice to, go one frozen medium. Rat just mice to.
Go such a funny and the design of the boxes like it looks Like World war. Two, yeah it looks like A pixar thing like food.
Fro it feels like a thing from The, simpsons or it's, like nice to go your python's favorite brand of frozen.
Rat there you. Go let's see a. Workmedia i've been, enjoying you, know weekends or fre to. Kids so we Watched dunstan checks in this, weekend which we HAD i had never SAW i missed that. ONE i think it came WHEN i was like sixteen, fifteen and SO i missed that the first time. Around but the kids were howling.
Fun laughter of that. Movie.
Dude great performance From George, Costanza Jayson, alexander like you, know with.
Hair exactly a lot of.
Fun don't, Forget. Paul you got kids and you're looking for a Fun it's like g rated and should not. Be there's lots of guns and weird. Shit but you, know if you got kids who are over the age of, seven, There, yeah it's a good.
One, yeah everybody's.
Smoking shout out to. History you can find me On twitter At Jack underscore O'Brien and On Blue sky A jack ich be the number. One you can find us On twitter And Blue sky At Daily. Zeitgeist we're at The Daily. Zeitgeist On. Instagram you can go to the description of this episode wherever you're listening to, it and at the bottom you will find the footnote, no which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's. Episode well also link off To adam's. Book.
There we also link off to a song that we think you might. Enjoy, miles is there a song that you think people might.
Enjoy, yeah this is a track From japanese beat maker Bug. Seed i've probably recommended a track or two of his, before but this is just just makes solid boom bab instrumentals and for, somebody for people of a certain way. Age sometimes you play an instrumental in your car and you get to rap in and tap, in you know WHAT i. Mean so this is a track for, you but also just a really solid. Instrumental it JUST i don't. Know music is always very, transport, transportive. Transport it transports
me to a wonderful era and boombab hip. HOP i love. You so this is Bug seed with the track a, spiral.
Right we will link off to that in the footnote For The Daily Zeit guy is the production Of. iHeartRadio for more podcasts from My Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App apple, podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite. Shows that is going to do it for us this, morning back this afternoon to tell you what is, trending and we'll talk to you all Then bye.
Bye The Daily Zeit guys is executive produced By Catherine, long.
Co produced By Bee, wang co produced By Victor.
Wright co written by J m, mcnapp edited and engineered By Justin.
Conner