Wait, so you were saying you went to the jay Z Museum.
So jay Z had this big exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum where it was like all the efemera from his life sort of on display, and it was incredible. There was like a recreation of a studio where he recorded some of his key albums, and like the master reel tapes to some of his records, and like his notebooks and all stuff.
And you know, all the stuff you want to see.
Yeah, I'm walking around sort of blown away by all this stuff, like jackets he wore in high school and stuff. And then he turned the corner in the middle of one of the display rooms, in a glass case all by itself sitting there is a two thousand and five Webby Award for like some Webby. But he met the Webby the little spring.
Because I have a Webby over my shoulder. Here it had its own little display case.
It was so great.
Famously, I am not jay Z. I have fewer Grammys than jay Z.
Those were there too, but those were grouped together. The Webby got own protected Webby.
Do we think they like? Put it there sarcastically like, oh, most important of all our Webby from two thousand and five, when there were like three categories.
I don't think there's that level of self awareness around now, kind of people who like tell the story of a famous artist or right, and an award is an award, like people.
People with the web and they're springy, they're spraying it, which I've always.
Fall off the shelf. They'll just bounce right back on.
That's right, Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three thirty eight, Episode four of der Dally's Like Geist. A pretty wow no, no, yeah at all from our guest host. I gotta say that was very.
Headphones off because we're screaming at a level that I don't think I've heard you scream on this show.
Was that too loud?
It was so loud that Zoom did that thing where it was like, I think we're just gonna shut.
It was like, you better get out of here. It's hiked. I hiked for this morning. It's a production of iHeart Radio, a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's share consciousness. And it's Thursday, May sixteenth, twenty twenty four. We're really not a podcast people can sleep too. I guess it is like one of the things that I that I've don't flatter yourself anything. They can fall asleep to most anything. But I think I fuck it up
by screaming at the screaming. Yeah yeah, the screaming at the beginning probably freaks them out a little bit.
The true sleepeadsday, just do the thirty thirty thirty forward and.
Yeah, yeah it is hard, and get past this and now nice and sleepy. My name's Jack O'Brien aka, I won't deny it. I'm a straight liar. It isn't water ice, it's pee, or I should say it isn't water ice, it's pee. That is courtesy of Lacaroni on the discord. Truly, the Shakespeare of akas about the most specific thing the The two minutes of my life when I wrote a ride with my nephews came off. My pants were wet afterwards. Nobody knows why. I think someone spilled a wood ice.
Many are saying someone's build a wood ice before I got on there. Lac Roni has his theories, but that's just like his opinion.
So when was the last time you actually seed your pants?
You know, I mean definitively like with Gusto.
No I'm just saying, like, you know this, this this incident, you're describing the possible. Yeah, then when was the last time you can clearly read your pants.
That I can clearly remember peeing my pants? I think it was probably some years before that, And it was probably when I, you know, I drank too much for a long time. No, I don't drink anymore, so probably somewhere in there. And I wasn't great, great at keeping track of the specific the specifics at that time of my life.
But I went this past weekend, I went to a destination wedding, which was if I was doing an overrated today, it might come up. But uh but uh, but I was at the I was at this destination wedding and like it was it was actually good. It's had a resort where there's like tons just like swimming pools everywhere in water parks and a ton of kids and like free food and you know, first my daughter six the other kids there were in that age range for kids.
It was like a destination heaven.
Yeah, but it was absolute having for those kids to the level that and I won't name names, but I think three different kids peed themselves at the like party on Friday night at Guess because it was just so you coward, swimming pools, free food, Shirley Temples. Kids were going nuts and it was just like boom boom. Three different kids independently peed themselves.
It was great. Oh yeah, I definitely peed my pants a few times, like at school when I was super young. Yeah, it's not great anyways. That voice you heard is our guest co host podcaster Extraordinary you know from This Day and Esoteric Political History thirty for thirty, the five thirty eight politics podcast Going Way Back. He's the lead producer on The Puzzler. It's Jody Abergode Thinkay, The Ballad of Tom Jody Arion.
I like that one of my favorite books and my favorite Bruce Springsteen songs, and they go very nice. Thanks for having me. It's always fun to be here and there you go, being a slightly different it's great tent. Yeah.
So you're setting me up to like talk about peeing my pants as an adult, and then you had a story about children peeing their pants. I just want to make that clear.
Because certain activities belong to certain age groups, that's right.
Yeah, and that's fair, and I shouldn't be peeing my pants as an adult, and I've changed, I've made changes in my life so that I don't Yeah, so there, okay, growth Jody, We are thrilled to be joined in our third and fourth seats by the hosts of the very fun true crime podcast Ridiculous Crime, part of the Ridiculous History Universal Podcasts shows true crime and ninety nine percent
murder free. So, if you're like me and you're saying, but what about my bloody murds, they managed to make a really fun podcast without the bloody murd Please welcome Zaron Burnette and Elizabeth do it? Yo's going on?
Guys?
Oh?
You know, just pselt it lose.
Wait, I have a question about the show, which I've listened to and I love, and I thought it was one hundred percent murder free. But does that mean that every hundredth episode you just do one where you just go right.
For we commit a murder right every episode? Yeah, you know, we hold it in and then we can't anymore.
Yeah, just right, Jack, it's off for college. That's right, that's right, all right, Sarah, Elizabeth, we're gonna get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, we're gonna tell our listeners a couple of the things we're talking about. We're gonna talk about.
The wweesque video dropped by Joe Biden just challenging Trump to a debate with some very specific parameters. We'll talk about the specific parameters. We'll talk about just the quality of the video, how we're all feeling in general about this election.
Good. I'm assuming we could just probably zoom past that where the election is cool, everything's good. But we'll talk about that. We'll talk about the fact that your car is definitely spying on you. It's something we've touched on before, but there's more reporting, more research into the fact that cars are essentially like you know, when people are like so if you don't know what the product is, like, you are the product right like online, Like why do
they let us use social media for free? Why do they let us do Google searches for free? And it's like, well, they're you know, just creating a vast, permanent record, psychological consumer profile of you. Cars are doing the same thing, but they're not free. Yeah, it makes me so mad. They're still charging us the same amount, if not more
than they were before, and they've like slowed down production. Anyways, we're gonna talk about all the ways spying on you and what they're doing with the information, all that plenty more. But first, Zarin Elizabeth. We do like to ask our guests, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? Or you could also share something that you recently screen kept.
Okay, well my search history. If you want something that's revealing about me, I would say I was looking up higher dimensional cubic equations that provide complex numbered values for zero. But a more fun thing that I was looking up was dread Zeppelin, the Zeppelin cover band with an l This impersonator singing in Elvis Krooning style. I was explaining it to somebody and I was like, all right, I
gotta go find out if they're still around. And then I realized that that pretty much says a lot about me that I'm the type of person wants to see I dread Zeppelin is still around, Not then I go see them. I just want to know that they're out there, like Gwar, making the world a better place.
Wow, what's the dread dread Zeppelin for it?
Dread Zeppelin? So imagine led Zeppelin being played by a cover band that's doing it as reggae tunes Sones that's the dread and then the Zeppelin is the Zeppelin part. And then the lead singer is an Elvis impersonator, so he's doing on top of the reggae Zeppelin songs Robert plant as a as an Elvis impersonator. Essentially, it's exactly once you get to the third hat.
It's funny, exactly the hat on the hat.
You can't do that. Everybody knows that third hat.
There's so many bits that one of the bits doesn't even make it into the main That's.
Like when you're going to a Zeppelin cover band that is reggae based, like you're probably okay with showing up. They're like, well, yeah, of course. Then there's an Elplis you've opened comes my way. I'm fine with it, exactly.
Mostly high as hell. At that point, it's just like this is all golden.
So are they still around and are they doing the like old fogie band circuit tour where they're just playing like hockey arenas in North Dakota.
Yes, and yes, so they are playing the hockey arenas in Canada and they are just still around. But uh, I was just you know, like you wonder about the uh, the economy for these types of bands. I can, they still make it, but they are the ones that make it because they're a touring band and that's where you make your money after you make your nuts a musicians. So I was stoked for them because you know, we need all the live music and all the silliness we
can get. So give me more dread Zeppelin in my life.
Yeah, I appreciate that. And the first thing that you said, that jumble of words of course makes sense to me, but might have think fusing to others. Yeah, like for Jodie's sake. Yeah, are you really.
Just as you know? I can't follow?
Were you like a math major? Is this? No?
I hated math. I failed math. I was terrible at math. Turns out, though it wasn't me, it was a math teachers because once I found ways to find better math teachers on YouTube, I love math. Turns out I'm a huge math person. I just had really bad teachers originally. No, you know, I'm not trying to put it all on them, but they made it seem so boring. So, for lack of a better word, just port prosaic I had no reason to think the math was like illuminating the universe.
The math was showing me all these amazing things that like, you know, how do I best put it? Symmetries? Right, There was a beauty, there's an art. There is a majesty to symmetries. You don't learn about symmetries. You don't learn about things like the cubic equation till so far on that you must really love math. But if we explain these things to kids. We showed them how these numbers worked as a system, and I found ways to tell kids this stuff. And I'm like, man, not that
I want to be a math teacher. I'd be a terrible math teacher, worse than the ones I had, But I still think it would be great if we found math teachers who could enlive in math the way that they do it for things like you know, poetry or photography or things where they go, this is about life. This, you know, like, put the life in math. It's not about numbers. And that's what I found is once you go to physics, once you go to using it in science, then the math comes alive. So just fuse them from
the start. Always use life examples instead of these abstractions that most people turn off to.
My son is an eight year old who's a little like math guy, Like he's really just naturally good at math in a way that like I never was, and I find it incredibly emasculating, and I just discourage it
at every turn. I don't know, but one of the little real world math stories, because I'm not like I can't do the math, but the story about Einstein figuring out that the way the universe operates, like using math, figured out like there's probably a black hole at the center of this thing based on numbers only, and then like decades later us finally getting the ability to like see that far. To me, my god, damn. Yeah. So I told that to my son and I think it
like translated to him. I think he like was impressed, which is a lot you know, the batting average on Like telling a story like that.
Your son was impressed with Einstein is what you're saying.
Yeah, my son was impressed with Einstein. But like also, I like, I think my lack of faith was not in like Einstein being impressed, but my ability to convey that to an eight year old.
But he has like I think.
I kind of nailed it. He was like, damn, all right, yeah yeah.
Wait and listeneth to asked your question about your show and your search history. Do you research your show on your regular browser or do you go? And I would imagine it.
Just totally excws.
Oh completely.
The person on the internet thinks, yeah, we are also Instagram.
I mean I get the worst things like Instagram are absolutely terrible because of the show. The things I get for Getaway Drivers exactly a lot of lock picking.
Did you want to get into lock picking? Yeah right, Elizabeth? How about you?
Well, Zaren's the smart one.
That's not true.
My search history right now is a lot aside from you know, product mashups for the show and weird stuff. I've been thinking about getting a dog. I'm a I'm a dog person and I lost my dog last year, and so I'm thinking, like, I think I'm emotionally ready, but I feel creepy because I look through all the rescue sites and I'm like, oh no, no, looking right right, I'm so superficial, like that dog looks nuts, and so
I'm going through that. And my last screen cap was a very boomeersque screen cap of a QR code to take a survey about the peregrine falcons that live in the camp in eli at u C Berkeley, which I'm a little bit obsessed with. And they have like the cal Berkeley falcons and you can watch them on the live cam. And they just had four little babies and they wanted to know what are your thoughts on falcons, Nerd, And I was like, I'll tell you everything. So that's what I've been up to.
You're gonna wish you never asked.
I got a lot to say. So, yeah, that's me.
I'm a bit of a fledgling bird person. Like getting into it.
You're getting into I can't like spot them, although I have that Merlin app on my phone and you just like go out in the backyard and it starts racking them up of everybody you got your Yeah, identifies them by the call. That's pretty cool. It doesn't identify my neighbor's rooster, but it is. Yeah, I'm old, but I haven't hit like, oh I can spot a you know, tipmouse?
Old, I don't know. Yeah, So that the is called Merlin.
And yeah, yeah, it's it's Merlin and it's part of some university I believe and yes, it's basically for birds.
It's just like the confidence of them to be like this is like, yes, you've seen other cool apps, but this one is the one that is basically going to look like magic.
Get straight up magic.
And every time call it like burger b R d R.
You use it and you grow a long beard and the robe emerges and like an orb of you know, lightning.
It's awesome, so awesome, amazing. What is something that you guys think is underrated?
I think you know, last time we were on here as Aaron was bagging on kids and so I want to bring it back to I'm not.
Gonna yeah kids fine, and you know it.
Was just basically I hate kids, and so my underrated though? Are magnet tiles? You guys got the kids. You're familiar with magnet tiles?
Yeah, but oh, do not have a magnetic refrigerator? No?
No, No, like Legos incredible?
Yeah, yeah, okay, magnets we do have.
Yes, Yeah, I got a nephew. He's over at my house every Saturday, and I now believe I have the largest magnetile collection in North America. Wins and bins.
You bought ghost or he just has slowly been moving it over to your house.
Oh no, I bought him.
And then every time we start building something, we go, you know what, I bet we can hit the ceiling, and then he and I he's four. We get on Amazon and we find someone like, all right, it'll be here for next week, and so we just keep building building, And I think they're they're underrated because there's so much
to take with Zaren's physics talk. You really have to think about balance and like you have to be very creative in your thinking, and it's not completely structured, and so I think they're underrated to way for kids.
Imagine, yeah there. It is so much easier to clean up than legos. Oh yeah, less painful, yea less painful. They're all like kind of one of like five shapes usually. I mean that's that's a generalization. I don't want to be unfair to magnetiles.
Do a lot of tesselating.
Yeah, it's not like legos is just such a mess. Yeah, magnetiles, how long for the day of magnetiles?
That's my overrated is legos? Is there any reasons?
Yeah? Great, Yeah, that's been my overrated.
Basically, legos are for losers. I think here's my thing with legos, it's very limiting. They heard when you step on them. And then now I went to go get legos and for the kid, and it's like so much of them are pre set build this one specific thing and it's really hard to find, just like the random Star.
Wars following when I build a giant parakeet or something.
Sure, but I have an accomplishment for the kid we're talking about.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't like rules.
Them kids, Michael Jordan's kids, the kids. Everybody should google Jordan some right, I only know that as a meme.
Is that actually what's the context for?
He was in a shooting contest, like in a like at a basketball camp, and some other player was like, hey, man, like you're supposed to let the whin. I think the kid. Yeah, I think it's on video, But could you movement for them kids? Yeah?
Basically, But I do like Elizabeth, how this nephew of yours seems to be just like laundering all of his toy request through you.
Completely is a safe house.
His father, my brother, was at the store trying to get a birthday present for some other kids birthday party, and he text me a picture which one should what present should I get this kid? And it was like magnets, not magnet tiles, but like a magnet kit or like a headlamp. And I show my nephew, I'm like, dude, which one should he get? He said, tell him to get the headlamp and then you get me magnets. I was like, all right, I am a sucker. I will just give him everything. So yeah, I know, I.
Know, and then you each return them to the other opposite store and.
Exactly.
The other thing with Legos is like they're so they have such a monopoly across. Like so I got my like it was recently my year old's birthday, and I got him an action figure, just like an you know, and he at first he was like, wait what I don't I don't get it. Yeah, what do I do
with this? But now it's like his favorite toy because it doesn't break into a hundred pieces when you drop it, right, and you can, but like Legos are just so like all their toys just dissolve into one hundred pieces when you drop them, and they're like impossible to like store anywhere whereas this you like put in a drawer and then like pull it out. So yeah, it's just it's great. Yeah, it's good that there's like an interactive toy that like
requires spatial reasoning and all that stuff. It is like, I don't know, I feel like it's too much at this point, like there's it's too And maybe that's just in my household because my other son is like obsessed with.
Legos well, and they're everywhere. I don't trust Big Lego.
Yet, there's no way accompany that Big isn't like doing something.
Somehow, like there are no good billionaires, you know, I don't trust them.
Every fifth Lego and like a set has a listening device built.
Out, well, I mean it was weird, but like, yeah, my daughter had one that was like build this eye tracking device.
That's right, yeah, and then put it on your dadboard on lunch. Let's take a quick break and then Zerom will come back and talk about your underrated over.
It and we're back and Zaren, Yes, we would like to ask you what's something you think is underrated at overrated underrated delivery?
With that question, let me move my t cozy out of the way so I can see my notes. Oh yes, thank you letters. That's what I wanted to say was undert underrated. Elizabeth does thank you letters all the time. So I recently went out and I got myself my own set of stationary thank you letters so that I can start sending these out because when I was a kid, I used to send them out all the time. My mother made me, and people would always be very touched. And then as an adult, especially as a young man,
you forget this. You're the worst to correspondence. You're like, ah, they know, maybe you'll call them, maybe you'll text. But a thank you letter really is such a sweet touch. So now I'm getting back into it, and I got to tell you it's like the littlest, tiniest but most pleasurable delight, like making someone stoked on what they did. You know. It's just kind of like it's like a little mirroring back, like, Hey, that meant a lot to me, and then all of a sudden, twice as much to them.
So it's like the only way to give back a gift, you know, because if it's the thought that counts, this is the thought you can return. So I'm all about thank you letters.
Wow, And you're thanking people for.
Just things they've done gifts, Uh, you know if it's an extra measure of effort that they put out, if they do something like that, I'm really touched by send a nice letter something like that.
So part of the premise here is that you have to have people around you.
Who have friends.
Social circle helps friends, and they have to be insight.
I don't think you know the listeners of this podcast.
You can send them to your neighbors for just being quiet one night, like, hey, thanks for not making a lot of noise yesterday. Really appreciated that book.
But you have to get there. You have to get their address, like is there an awkward light? I can't tell you why, but tell me, give me just.
Give me your address. Yeah, that is a weird one. These days, people are not used to that text out of nowhere with the hey what's your address?
So that's a.
Great text to send and then not send a letter like hey, what's your address? And they think like, oh, I get some mail and then it never shows it.
Never shows Upis I feel like I've done that numerous times?
Start signing up for newsletters and stuff. Yeah, different book, I will say.
For many years now I have done a like weekly send two or more emails to people who have like made something that I've loved, you know, written or like a book or a piece of music or whatever, but just like a note of gratitude and it is like so rewarding to me, Like it's just it's just great that I appreciate it. But it's just like it's incredible.
How.
Yeah, you read an article and then at the end you're like, oh, it was so good. I immediately send an email because I know what it's like to create something or a book. You write it and you have this echo chamber and have someone just say like it made a big difference. I loved this part. Like I'm with you on that. I think that's really important.
But this is next, the handwritten.
Ye, handwritten? There? Do you have good handwrit No?
I have terrible handwriting, but I can try really hard to make it legible so it looks like an eighth grade or no, like an eight year old.
And you also do the thing where you cut out the letters so that people of course.
Otherwise how are they going to be like you know all different? Fun's fun to read. It's just funny, and plus by a magazine collection, that's only thing we can get rid of it.
Yeah, you use creepy rhyming prose, and I.
Am pentameter and Victorian tenth.
It always starts out, this is the zodiac.
Exactly, and you do it for months and months and months, and it's like all these cryptic clues and then and then at the end it just says thank you for writing.
Very fun.
I said a lot of thank you letters to local newspapers.
They're yelling to the FBI, he's calling again. We've found them all the lines for your final thing where you revealed that you just wanted to thank them for it. What is something you think is overrated?
Okay? Overrated? And I was listening to recent to this radical black feminist professor. Her name is professor Loretta J. Ross Right. She goes or she doesn't go to she's a professor at Smith College and she lives in Atlanta. And she was talking about calling people out and she was like, you know, I'm against that, and I was like, wait a minute, I don't know about this because I'm a big believer in, like, you know, speaking truth to
power and stuff. And then she got me into the idea of basically, don't call people out, call them in, but still speak truth to power. So that means you're gonna go out there, You're gonna call out public officials, You're gonna call out powerful institutions, you're gonna hold but
you're gonna hold individuals accountable. So what that means is to call people in means you like to say, you've got an uncle who's like racist, and you're gonna see him at Thanksgiving when he goes to say something racist, you don't just let it go and you don't avoid him. You said, you go, you know what, man, I know you and I know how you are, and this doesn't square at all with how I know you are. And then you basically ask them to decide how they want
to be. And I was like so inspired by this. So I think that basically calling out people is at because it's like Sun Sue's idea of like destroying the village. It leaves them nowhere to be. So you kind of you know, basically, if you have Sun Sue in a radical black feminist, agree and you're gonna get me to listen.
Right.
So my idea is that it's important to find a way to call people in if you do care about them or the issue you're arguing about, if it's something that doesn't matter to you, find let them go whatever. I'm not saying that, but if it does matter to you, at least have the temerity to go and say I'm gonna stand on business and I'm gonna say I respect you as opposed to you're my enemy, so simply, especially if it's somebody you know, that's my old thing. So
there you go. Calling people out I think is overrated. It's a false sense of righteousness. I think calling people in is much more. You're going to get what you want, which is to change minds, to get to make your view be a broader, more widely held view. And as somebody who spends a lot of time arguing, I think about this often, which is how ultimately, why are you arguing? You want to change their mind, you want them to
find a better way. Otherwise, why waste your time? So if you're gonna do it, do it well call them in as opposed to calling them out.
I like it.
Well what happens if you're like, I know you're better than that. I don't and they're like, no, on h per this is I am.
Recently understood medical.
Then they've declared who they are, and you can then act accordingly. You no longer have to do anything, but you at least give them the chance to have that conversation. If at the end of the conversation they're like, you know what, screw you and everything you believe you don't need to hang out with that person, but you at least did honor the relationship and you honored your respect for the issue, which is like, like, I'm going to try to bring you around to what I think is
an important thing. If it's important to you and this person's important to you, or you care about them in the least, or even if you don't care about them, you care about people who they affect, then go, hey, I'm gonna at least, you know, say I think you can be better than this, But don't make it like you are better. It's like, we can all be better, and this is how we do it. It's by constantly challenging what beliefs and biases we hold. Because your thoughts
stem from your beliefs, not from your thoughts. So challenge a person's beliefs. Don't listen to their thoughts. Those are just it's like secondary, it's downstream effects. Go to the beginning, Go to the mountaintop if you want to deal with the stream.
M hmmm.
When I was in middle school in Dayton, Ohio, we had the phrase calling someone out, and that was to challenge someone to a fight. Yes, called him out, Rocky called him out.
Did you ever get called out for a fight?
I did? Did you show up? I did show up for the fight? And then you yeah, I did. So it was like, uh no, but it was. It was funny, Like there was this kid who I thought was my friend, who like basically was the don King, who was like getting this fight going like so because he was like I think a lot of people would like to see him get beat up. I didn't. Nobody got beat up. But it was.
Basically just called him in at the end, exactly.
I just want to where you're coming from.
So this actually segues perfectly into our first story, which is the actual President of the United States, Joe Biden, basically calling Donald Trump out like in the middle school way to two debates. There's a video that we would
play audio for if Miles was here. Oh, by the way, I wanted to say on the subject of a handwritten letters, Miles writes really great handwritten letters, and it has beautiful handwriting on miles is a great proprietor of your underrated But yeah, so, like is the video that I saw that I think a lot of people saw where it's Joe Biden going direct to camera WWE style and there's like mid sentence like edits like a YouTube video, and like there's like a punch in punch out and he
basically says he literally says, make my day pal. At one point.
It's a grandpa fight.
I hear. I hear Donald Trump wants to debate me. I beat him in two debates and I I haven't. He hasn't debated me since. So you want to do a debate, Donald, make my day pal? I hear your free on Wednesdays sick burn. That is a pretty decent burn, because this criminal trial is an in session that day of each week. But it just feels very strange, like
we've entered. I mean, I've I get this feeling every time Joe Biden like publishes a TikTok or you know, the White House publishes a tictok TikTok on his behalf, it just feels surreal.
Yeah, get off my lawn energy from him?
Yes, and and are you You're mostly reacting to the kind of optics and theatric strategy, not the like actual debate strategy too, which I think a lot of people are talking about too, which is like who was most you know, advantaged by actually debating and the timing and the number of debates and so forth.
Yeah, yeah, I think most of us. I also want to talk about that. Yeah, But just the very first kind of interaction with the clip is that this feels weird. It feels like politics has entered this news zone. I don't know if it's politics writ large, like I don't think.
No, I think it is we've crossed the line, Like you know, I just where we're headed. I got annoyed for a long time with the like when they go low, we go high, because it was just like we just keep taking kicks to the teeth. Yeah, but now it's just gone so like no one has any dignity anymore, and so it's just like everyone will debase themselves and it's this race to the bottom and it's so embarrassing,
Like I'm just so embarrassed by all of this. Yeah, and it's I don't think we can come back from it.
The market based politics m.
I mean, yeah, look, I think it's clear and Trump is largely both a reflection and I think genuinely responsible for a lot of this over the last you know,
eight years or so. It is clear that like politics and personality have merged, right, and what people are looking for is like a charismatic leader, and I think, you know, it started with Obamas, like I think an example of this too, but you know, like mostly people are looking for like an individual to sort of filter their thoughts and aspirations and all that through and for better or worse.
Trump does that really effectively for people, And I think Biden needs to do that, right, Biden needs to tell
a story that is centered on Joe Biden. But this is not as far as I can tell it right, Like I mean, trying to do trying to there's a mistake there of trying to then thinking that and then say, oh, that just means I need to play Trump's game and debase myself, Whereas I think the real lesson is I need to just present a cohesive and authentic story of who I am and how people can find meaning in what I want to do with this country.
And you know, in.
Whatever weird way, twenty twenty. I think he kind of did that. I mean, it was a very weird year and so any sense of normalcy, like I think people
were over correcting for it. But I do think he did position himself as like, dignity still matters, steadiness still matters, norms still matter, and this feels so against that, and he just needs to pick who he wants to be and then be that not And maybe that is a little bit of like I'm not scared of this guy, which I appreciate and I think is true, and I think Joe Biden that is authentic Joe Biden, but doing it in this particular way, Like I just don't see
him playing this mode that we saw in this video for the next six months and having it feel like something that people can really glom onto and.
Be like a new blend, don't you think that. Yeah, Like there's there's the previous sunglasses cool Guy Biden. Then there was like Dark Brandon, and this feels like e merging or synthesis of those two, like Dark Brandon being the internet avatar of Biden, and then you know, like cool Guy Biden, like in the in the sports car
in driving around with sunglasses and lowering them. That's more of his like you know, street performance of Biden, and now he's trying to merge those into this like fighting Biden. But I think that you're correct that he should just be himself because and I think even the idea of how we relate to politicians goes even further back to JFK and the In the first the election, right, he beats the Nixon because he looks cooler, right, and then you see kind of like, you know, Nixon learns from that,
he figures out, I got my silent majority. Then you get the next big evolution is Reagan or Reagan goes, Okay, we're gonna take it from TV to movies. Now we're gonna get into iconic. I am the cowboy, I am Americana, I am the Western and people get they glom onto that. Then you get another change with the handover to the boomers. And then you get the Bill Clinton era of like, Okay, we're gonna start doing this as like a continuation of the revolution that we tried he wasn't a part of
to stop the Vietnam War and all this. We finally got our chance. Don't stop believing, you know, and then then they start doing this whole like, you know what, breach of the twenty first century so they can start talking about the future. That was the last time the Democrats have talked meaningfully about the future. Was Bill Clinton talking about the bridge to the twenty first century. We're now a quarter of the way into the twenty first century.
What has anybody in the Democrats said about? Okay, here's the big model, the big dreams. Here is the Great Society, Here is the Square Deal, here's the New deal. Here is the promise of how we're going to actually lead as opposed to react and then try to signal and send messages. It becomes such a media driven way for politics to behave that they've actually forgotten not just the messaging, but what is the message. What are you promising people?
And I think that people want something beyond rural broadband. And I know Biden should get a lot more credit for the infrastructure stuff, but that's essentially what that message
came down to. So dream big, Biden, And then I think you can pull people into something other than your personality, which I think is important, but your personality has to then align to something that we can all say, oh, this is we're going this direction otherwise it's just like kind of like picking your favorite ice cream.
Yeah, I mean I think I disagree with you, and I think that there are enough accomplishments and cohesive sort of policy Biden publicly known, right and it just hasn't come together. And I worry or I'm curious whether this video and just in general, there's a sort of sense of panic of life. I think, so, why is that story not breaking through the sort of steady progress or thing, And so now we're gonna we're gonna flail a little bit.
They aren't giving him credit for the economic package right now or the economic picture. So like there's a lot of disconnect between his real story and what people think of him across It doesn't even matter which side of the divide you go and ask them for their opinion, They're going to say almost the same thing about Biden's performance, which is a shame that you know, that's almost I think less his fault and more of his the fault
of his surrogates. You know, you got to get out there and be able to tell these stories in ways that are compelling and simple and easy to remember.
Yeah, the reeks of like you know, all of the people surrounding him like coming up with different strategies and stuff, and it just feels a little inauthentic. It also feels like it gives me anxiety. It just he totally generally seems to have these moments of like high energy where he like writes checks that then his mind and body can't fully cash like that press conference, Like that's that's
what this made me worried about. It's like that press conference where he was like, that's it, I'm going out there. I'm gonna tell him what's what with old you know, Joey b And he did fine for like twenty minutes, and then someone like asked him a question as he was leaving the stage, and he like came back and
really started like struggling. And it's We also have an NBA podcast, and like something we've seen this year is like some of the great players who are like you know, getting older, and they'll have these games where they're like amazing, but then they'll just have like three games where you're like, oh, they're not there, you know, like.
They're just totally load management.
Right. Yeah, there's like they have these high high points, but then they can't really, And I worry that this is the case with Biden, Like you can't always flip it on whenever you want to, right like and and who who Kyle Lowry.
I'm trying to I'm just trying to imagine who these players are that you.
Were referring Lebron.
Lebron still has its.
Great but he was not able to turn it on up to the degree that he needed to. He was still like, no, he's unprecedentedly great at a late state.
Sorry, no, no, no, no. But I had a question for you know, all of you. But you know, I think the big fear about basketball, about budgett The big fear for I think Democrats and Biden's people probably is that no matter what they do, no matter which version of Biden they try and put out there, people are going to have that their shoulders are going to get tense, They're going to start to feel a little ichy. They're just going to be like, oh, you know, no matter
what they do. And I'm curious if you think there is a version of Biden that can go out there and not elicit that.
Yet, I think that everyone just has this fear that, for some reason, his flubs mean more than like flubbithon Trump, like so you know, Trump can do all sorts of crazy stuff and we expect it. And then so yeah, we're all tense waiting for Biden to make some misstep or you know, say something dumb, and well, I think the whole thing is this completely devolved version of what we want. My question to you, guys, is there any part of you like me that would love to just see them physically fight.
I mean, come on, I'll almost tried to do it with Hillary at the debates.
If we were just like, you know what, you guys want this, You want to be so crass and trashy. All right, let's see it, like who I would love.
To set the tipers on and go for it exactly exactly Octagon.
I mean, I'm pushing for Joe on that one. Yeah, crotchity, old Irish dude.
Come on to the degree.
That like both of them would probably be dead by the end of it completely.
And then maybe that's when I.
Get and then I do.
I will say, when Joe Biden falls, he just falls, and when Donald Trump falls, he stumbles backwards for like fifty sixty yards and then falls and then falls into it.
Like a cake.
He's like relying on the lips.
Crumples into just like a pile.
He just yeah, I always thought that in the beginning of COVID they should have taken a note from the World War Two playbook of like sacrifice. Yeah, is the most patriotic thing you can do, Like you are a patriot if.
You wear a mask, like Donald Trump was president, if you just let us open up your lungs and.
We missed an opportunity to save a lot of people, well, you know, and and change the atmosphere of the country from like you know, this fear that we all had to say, Look, we're against this sort of common enemy, and you know we've done it before, we've rallied before, we can win again, and you know that I'll go blown to hell.
So yeah, that one video where he addressed the nation at the beginning of COVID Trump and it ends with him going, Okay, I feel that's what they need to go back to. Is like this man was so overwhelmed by this jobs, like y'all don't understand. He thinks, like, speaking of movie iconography, he thinks that Hannibal Lecter is a real historical figure who has died. Like it doesn't. It's so confusing. What is possibly happening in his brain?
Well, you know, Gettysburg.
Wow, right, Gettysburg. Wow. It's great. So they are like, somewhat surprisingly Biden is proposing and I think Trump accepted that they completely sidestep the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is seem like it's leading down a fight club direction. Oh yeah, and it's also seems like it's designed to freeze out any other independent or third party candidates with brainworms. Yes, So, like I feel like this is one of those things where it's like, in this case, yes, fine, thank you
for doing that. You know, Kennedy's pulling it sixteen percent according to some sources, which is right on the verge of the fifteen percent, a little bit over the fifteen percent that would qualify him to share the debate stage, and like, we don't want that as a like no thinking society. On the other hand, like it feels like a bad precedent.
Yeah, I'm with you, dude, Let brain worm go. You up on the stage. If you can't beat brainworm, I mean, come on, it's a debate stage. You need to be able to have RFK there and use that to your benefit. Align him with your opponent, do everything you can to use that as a splinter. Don't be afraid of it, because that shows to me it advertises fear. So be excited that our fa is on there because it shows that the populace is not necessarily for Trump. Use that to your benefit.
I feel like also RFK becomes like just seeing him in motion and like hearing him speak is less. Yes, you know, I feel I feel like he gains a lot from just people's associations and loses a lot from seeing him in person.
Sure of all of them, but I mean, I do think that there is a real argument for like Trump on a debate stage just a freaking wild card, right, And you know, I think, and I think people of memory hold that in twenty sixteen, the debate really hurt Trump. And maybe the story of twenty sixteen is that there was too big of a gap between the last debate and the actual election for Trump to just start to people forget a little bit and started got a lot.
Going on, Jody, Now he's just going to be focusing on this debate singularly, and.
Debate laser laser focus.
But now they're arguing, and I think as even as we've been taping, they're now like going back and forth with like a little do two, let's do three, let's do them early, let's do them and.
The one now everyone out in court, Yeah, takes this jacket out.
I do think in a weird way, both of them are trying to weasel out of the debates, but for different reasons, or like they they both they both I think probably don't want to actually debate, but for different reasons. And I think it's this weird now they have to call each other out but also try and minimize it. And so that's where you're getting into this weird like we're going to do them early in the summer and on like one network, and you know it's like debates.
I mean, on the one hand, they'll still go everywhere because social media, but you know it's like if a debate happens and no one really.
Watches it, and it's it's it's a network that Trump loaths, so it gives him an out. As they get closer to be like, oh, I can't trust them, They're slanted against me. I don't want to participate. It's all rigged.
You The first one. Yeah, yeah, it just doesn't show.
Yeah, he's like, I stood you up. You're a loser exactly.
I think that'll be it. I stood you up. I think that's gonna be the argument.
Look at how embarrassing you were.
There was a debate where they had an empty podium for Trump right at the primary.
Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll talk about our cars spying on us. We'll be right back, and we're back. Hey, hey, alright, you have to understand it's surprising to us because we go into a black void during that head break.
Let's do a quick let's do a quick buddy check. Make sure everyon's still here.
A former cocout buddy check. All right, So our cars are basically devices for collecting data about us and Frank Yeah, yeah, so, I mean, obviously, privacy major concern for anybody interacting with tech companies, whether it be you know, those companies monitoring your Internet history, government recording your cell phone calls. We still have to worry about good old fashioned perverts in our neighborhood. But the worst product for privacy is apparently
our car. Modern cars are what's being called a privacy nightmare. While automakers are bragging that they're selling computers on wheels, they basically allow car companies to just spy on us with little to no oversight. A twenty twenty three study conducted by Mozilla's Privacy Not Included project found that all twenty five car brands that they examined flunked their tests, making cars the quote worst category of products that they ever reviewed. That's that's bad.
Yeah.
Recently manufactured cars have dozens of sensors, including microphones, cameras, microphones.
Can I please read the finished the sentence you're about to read, because.
It's the best part of this Jody, take it away.
Dozens of sensors, including microphones and cameras that harvest personal information, including your quote, race, weight, and sexual activity, which can then be sold to third parties. Okay, your car is reading your race, weight and sexual activity, race waight and sexual activity in your car?
Is that through the camera the mics? Like which way are they recording your sexual action?
Just car?
Just car sexual activity? Like we really need to know how many people are fucking in this car exactly?
This is the great question, Like is it are they just tracking where you're going? And they're like another booty call, or like people jacking off in their car? Is it people having sex in their car? Like is it the seat sensor that? Like?
And now how is that information than being used?
How is that they're making better seats for sex? So yeah, yeah, no, it might I think probably to advertise condoms. Well, you get in the.
Car, like you give the car, you open it up, and there's a pregnancy test sitting on the driver's seat. You're like, oh god.
Yeah, it just immediately drives you to the O, B, G, Y N.
Tracking everything, yeah, tracking your cycles, you know everything.
This is where, you know, with a lot of these types of stories, I find both despair but a slight little bit of hope, which is that like, I think these these are not the sharpest folks in the in the world, and and you know, their main strategy is let's just hoover up as much information as possible everything, and you know, but then what are they actually going
to do with them? And it's kind of like, and I know, this is a ridicuous analogy, and this this organization did a ton of harm, but it's kind of like the CIA after the Cold War went into this motor like.
We're gonna spy on everyone everything. We're gonna run. We're gonna run.
We're gonna find out what happens when you take mushrooms when you're a cat and you take mushrooms in a in air below.
We need to know that we're right.
But they create this giant bank and they've got they just keep generating it and then you disaggregate it as each business comes to you and it's like, all right, here's exactly what I need, and then they can pull them up for them. So it's got I'm living this, by the way, you guys, I I'm not the sexual activity in the I got a Subaru not too long ago because I live in the Bay Area, and then as an aging punk that is apparently our new vehicle. And well I had to prove how many Decembers albums
do you own? I was like three, like okay, yeah, yeah, here.
Podcast and then oh yeah that was already.
That's why that's why I got the upgrade the leather seats. So anyway, I get this car. If if I run out of wiper fluid, I get texts from the car like hey, hey, you're out a wiper.
Fluid from your cart message, and then.
I'll get like from the Subaru app the bit and then it gets like a little more urgent. It's like, look, bitch, take care of your car.
I don't have to see can you see.
Out of the windshield? Like pretty soon they're going to disable it like you're filthy, And it's like okay, okay, and then I just have to begrudgingly go to like O'Reilly's and get wipe or fluid put in. Then I was like slamming, are you happy now? Will you leave me alone?
Starts quietly the auto parts.
Yeah, that's what happens to me.
Throw it there.
So I'm living this nightmare, and god knows what else you're like, you know, she goes to the market a lot.
You're now in a dysfunctional relationship with your super Yeah.
In my life, I go around and I just gathered dysfunctional relationships. That's how I operate. So the car makes sense.
Yeah, so nobody knows exactly how that data is being gathered. Just that like Nissan, for instance, is I think the worst defender on the report. They reserve the right to share and sell preferences. Characteristics, psychological trends, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence. This means a real dipshit. What if your car bought a Nissan the zoom zoom thing working on him?
Is that something they did duck points when you're like trying to pull into a parking lot and you hit the curve.
Yeah, Abilities and aptitude No, So this is where it's actually like the thing that you described. I'm like I kind of would take that like that's cool, Like I would take a text message being like, hey, you usually miss your oil change oil check by twenty thousand miles. We're just adding this extra service. We're just going to send you a text message letting you know, like you need to do this, and we'll text you every week just to remind you until you fucking do it.
Yeah. Well, I want it to be like, uh ps, your passenger left fries in the seat of the car last night.
Oh my god, horrible.
When you get in there, it's it's almost.
Like shit in your car.
Yes, like points from my SUPERU points they're going to turn over to whatever. Yeah, got the government revenuers.
So they're sending this information directly to the police without a warrant. They're also sending it to insurance companies and so like. One driver found that his car insurance jumped by twenty one percent even though he hadn't been in any accidents, and the reason was that General Motors collected data, including details of speeding and sharp accelerations, and gave it to their data broker partner, who handed it over to
the insurance company. So every time you hit the accelerator, it's going on your permanent record.
That's ridiculous. I'm so screwed.
But that's the people who are like, I haven't been in an accident. I'm a great driver. You're like, really, you caused accidents behind you, but you personally haven't.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's just an a automaker sent vehicle location data to police without a court order or warrant.
Baddy snitching, Like what's there in it for them? Are they are the cops paying them? Or they just want to keep like a good accord, Like, what's up with it?
I don't accord a good accord?
Good sunset it right?
Yeah, I understand, because.
That's how a lot of like, oh, the authorized.
Okay, because I'm wondering if that's what the warrantless searches falls under that because if you can say that it's part of like terrorism, and that's a very loosely used term. Sure they used it to go after a lot of drug dealers and so they didn't you could get without a warrant. So I'm wondering if it falls under that.
So what I'm doing.
I remember when in like two thousand and two they were like, don't buy weed, it could be supporting al Qaeda, so like anything can be tied back to terrorism. I still bought weed.
I won't tell anybody.
Yeah, I just don't know how the sex I'm having in my cars related to terrorism it is.
Yeah, yeah, don't find ladies.
Yeah, I mean she used to be an Isis, but I don't think that she can.
You need to be more con that Honda has like a cracksmoke sensor.
Yeah, no problem, kidd.
It really feels like we're headed that direction.
Yeah, that is though, Yeah, because we make fun of like China with like oh, they've got cameras and you're going to lose your social status score or whatever if you cross on a red light, but we have our cars snitching on us. I mean, like this is just the capitalist version of the state. Controlled monopoly of like surveillance. I mean, this is no different. We're just you know, people are making more profits off it.
We're all like all like our score that we get from Uber drivers, our score that we get like all that's going to merge into a central database where we're just like our rating as a person, and then that gets that determines your credit score and whether you can get alone.
Yeah. Yeah.
I was always afraid as a kid that I had my permanent record and like a filing cabinet somewhere, And now we kind.
Of do we really do have a permanent R.
So the anxiety was probably not your anxiety. No, nothing does.
Oh man, my permanent record is fucked. Oh god, I try to steal that. It's great. Yeah.
Yeah, I burned down the school to just geet rid of my permanent record.
Yeah, but that went on your permanent right exactly.
I didn't know that fortune I was young.
Ye. Well, Zaren Elizabeth. Such a pleasure having you guys.
I love when you let us dark in your doorway?
Yeah, where can people find you? Follow you? Hear you? All that good stuff?
Well, ridiculous crime, I heart's ridiculous crime. The child of Ben and Nole's Ridiculous History and so you can find us there on any podcast platform. We have a really amazing website that was designed by like a team of MIT scientists. It's Ridiculous Crime dot com. And yeah, that's where you can find is Zaren. You can find him a lot more, please.
I got a new show on the iHeart Network of very special episodes or like little audio movies or like magazine feature stories but that come alive in audio. I recommend that, and then yeah, I think a Ridiculus Crime is obviously the best place to catch us.
So look for us there.
Wait, Arreen, what's that show called again?
Very Special Episodes?
Right, I'm gonna check it out.
Amazing. Is there a work of media that you guys have been enjoying?
Let's see. IM right off into streaming services, like I'll sit there and like just put on some show that I have like six six seasons, like nice, and then like it comes the backdrop, but they're always insane shows like right now I'm watching rewatching Vikings, and oh my god, do I love it. It's so beautiful that I constantly look up and get mad that I'm like not writing anymore because I'm looking at the imagery, so I recommend Vikings for a rewatch.
There you go amazing.
How about you, Elizabeth, I've really gotten into it. I hate that I can't remember the name of the account, but there's this Instagram account with a dog that they dress up and they like blow out his hair in a gold chain and it kind of looks like early Jonah Hill. And I love that for me, you know, Like I said, I just I try and just keep my city very low.
He's on with the Bob ross Affron completely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's it.
Jody, wonderful having you on, Yeah, guest host. Where can people find you? Follow you? And is there a workid media that you've been enjoying.
I'll plug two quick things. So one, I have a newsletter. I would love people to subscribe to that, so you can just google Jody Afrigan substack you'll find that. And then, uh, he doesn't need my help. But I'm I'm recently on board as the executive producer of Trevor Noah's podcast, and I got to say, I really love it and I love working with him a lot, and people should check out What Now with Trevor Noah. I think we're trying to do something a little a little special there, so
go check that out. And then in terms of media, I just I mean the final pages, so no one spoiled it for me. But this book called burnham Wood b I R N A M. Would, which is really wonderful and it's a I have this habit of when I take a trip. If I'm taking a long trip and I want to find a book for a trip, I'll go to the Hudson News and I'll take a photo of like all the books on the shelf and just put it on social media and just say, like, zoom in and pinch around and tell me what, which
one of these is actually good? And a couple people recommended burnam Wood last time, and it was like the best of every time, of all the times I've done this, it was the best, the best read.
And it's like, give me a suggestion. That's great. You've limited it down to like which of these that's really.
Yeah, And I'm just gonna you know, I'm gonna buy an airport book, but I want to go the Airport book and I'm gonna read it on this trip and then move move on.
So I'm gonna probably borrow that do that. What is what is the book?
What b I R N A M would And it's a it's about a like environmental collective in New Zealand that meets uh, mysterious billionaire and you know, like some stuff happens, but mostly it's just like beautifully written and great greatly rendered characters and a lot of like rich interior lives and you know, I like my main experience reading the book has been like it reads easy. I mean I'm just like find it stuff like all of
a sudden, I like five pages. But then I'll like have read a page and I'll just be like, that was beautiful, and then I'll be like, and nothing happened. It was just like a description of someone just like walking down the street. But it's just I don't know, you know, it's good, right, yeah.
All right. Tweet I've been enjoying. Ellie Kremndall tweeted, ADHD is ridiculous, Like why am I holding my pee? Because quote peeing is boring and I identify with that. Showering for me is the one that I'm like, I don't want to shower. It's so boring. That's bad for the people around me. You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at
Daily Zeitgeist. We're at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, Daily zeitgeist dot com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes. We link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as the song that we think you might enjoy. And Miles is we like to bring in super producer Justin Connor. Justin, is there a song that you think people might enjoy?
Yes, I'm reeling from the fact that there was no footnotes shout out, so I'm still trying to collect myself for that. But the songs I had one job, Yeah you really really fucked up.
Yeah, there you go.
I'll add that you post.
No one will be able to tell.
Uh.
There's this song I just started listening to. It really reminded me of like an unreleased Steve Miller band song. It's it's kind of got the aesthetic feeling of fly like an eagle while being an own separate thing. Yeah, it's it's got some tight in the pocket drumming, some funky bass riffs and just feels like a modern classic. So this is the Light by Breakbot and Earfane. That's I R F A n E. And you can find that song in the footnotes.
Footnote The Daily's Guys is the production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio is the iHeartRadio, ap Apple podcast or wherever you find podcasts that is gonna do it for us this morning. We are back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we will talk to Elvin.
Bye.
Thanks us, thanks for having us.
Bye.