We've got a bit of an election happening over here soon too. You might have its. Yeah, it's going to be an absolute I'm gonna have nine hundred beers that night.
And you may well have a felon running for president.
Oh yeah, I mean we he is.
That's not Chandywood what he ends up doing, where he's.
Running unprecedented times.
In the best way possible.
It's all un president because we just had to come up with the idea of how cool to do it.
Anyway, you guys might pick up a thing or two over there from us to England. Here's a free lesson.
Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season three, forty two, Episode two of The Guys, the production of iHeart And this is a podcast.
Where we take a deep dive into America share consciousness.
And it is Tuesday, June eleventh, twenty twenty four.
Garretty, motherfuckers. It's National Forklift Safety Day. It's National Call your Doctor Day, is National Making Life Beautiful Day, is National Germany Child the Cake Day.
The first three felt the first two at least felt somewhat related.
Been Making Life Beautiful Day, and you shot the cake?
No forklift safety and then call your doctor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, like the other two Digging Life Beautiful Day, Nah fuck that?
All right?
How about this one? It's also you didn't let me finish. It's also National Corn on the Cob Day. Now that's probably the best one of them all shot out Corn on the cop.
I do love some corn on the cop sweet corn. We're getting into corn season. It's corn season and America season.
Baby, you grill it or you boil it.
Wasn't it like recently National Forklift Operators Day? And then I feel like a week later they're like, and oh, that did not go well.
Let's make a National Forklifts they safety Day. Yeah, not to do cool tricks on your Yeah, be safe.
I can spin on the little fork in the front.
Yeah, like you know how break answers do like windmills and shit, watch this fork lower it with the wheel boom. Yeah all right.
Well my name is Jack O'Brien aka, I'm your hopeful pres. I'll never be the pres, but I'm your anti vaxer pres. But really I'm not actually your pres. But I am Bobby Kenny in the middle of the ballot, who watches over you. There's a little worm housting your brain. Not to put too fine a point on it, don't give
this guy the key to atomics. There's a little worm housting your brain that is courtesy of keV Whatev on the discord in reference to our third presidential candidate, but first in all of our hearts and in all of our brains.
Yeah, shout out to Kevin whatever. What's that? What song was that? Bird Housing or Soul?
Who is that?
They might be giants? Oh they might not, but I think.
They might be giants. I'm like, I only know like they did like Triangle Man and.
Ship Triangle Man, Triangle Man, and then you don't know, bird Housing or Soul not a bit of a deep.
Cut, something culturally did not penetrate the bubble for me. Yeah, it was that and maybe Malcolm in the Middle theme song that I knew them from.
Yeah, yeah, there, and the Mickey Mouse Hot Dog song that Ship Goes. It was a it's like a song that from like a Mickey Mouse show my kids were into. I was like, this song is catchy as fuck, and then I looked it up and it was by they might be giants.
Secretly like this song is catchy. A song fucking goes man. I can't let my kids know.
I have to remain detached and unimpressed by their culture. But anyways, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host mister.
Yes it's Miles Gray aka Vulnerable. WHOA. Green is not a color that is primary? Whoa? It takes me and yellow to make the green shout out to first Blood five two two. I did admit, in a moment of vulnerability, I was being candid. I did not know what the fucking primary colors were, and I was completely backwards. People were hitting me on on discord. They're like Bram a art teacher, and it really hurt to hear you say that you thought some of these colors would go together.
It was genuinely shocked. I get it. Look, I'm you know, we all got blind spots. It takes a wise person to admit what they don't know. I didn't about all my shits were fucked up.
Okay, it's it's like a single day in art class, whether it's elementary school. So it's I can see how it be super easy to make excuses for me. Man, No, no, but it's just like so a thing that I think about so often, like stupidly so not not not a thing I should be thinking about as often.
As I do. But yeah, that really fucked me up. Man. I know a lot. I get it. I get it. I know I lost a lot of followers. I lost like three thousand followers.
Miles Fin Colors, you are thrilled to be joined in their third seat by a very funny media critic, talented musician, just all around artists who you know from YouTube, where her work has been viewed millions of times and hailed by The New York Times.
Please welcome, Thank you.
Am I supposed to sing a song now?
Yes, you got to your musician. You are duty bound.
I just didn't Preparis song. I didn't Preparis song.
I will allow it this once.
I'm just.
Watch walking on the moon. Cat, you go, my leg storm breaks. Yeah see, I brought it all together right there.
I'm just I'm just not hearing in awe, How on it you guys are so early in the morning.
Right now, eleven fifty two.
That's early in the morning for me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We shouldn't be awake right now, frankly, quite frankly, Cat, we shouldn't be awake right now, and you're welcome.
Look have lunch yet, and you're on it.
On it, I have not had lunch yet. Usually, like as soon as we're done recording, I'm like, I am fucked inside out.
I'm so dumb about my food intake, Like I will let myself get angry hungry and then yeah and then just be like go on and then finally eat. And it's like I was holding my breath like that's how hungry.
I was like, yeah, damn you know that point, like you were your stomach's empty, and like your breath smells bad because your stomach's so empty. My breath never smells bad. Well, ship between.
Drinking sniff test when I'm about hungry, I probably should.
I think you're probably responsible enough to probably eat when it's time to and we're just like just three more recordings and then I will have twenty pieces of bread or whatever. But anyway, thank you so much for coming on. Moons. Can I call you moon cat, moon cat cat?
Yeah, people call me moon, people call me moon cat.
Yeah, nobody calls you moons, So I'm just gonna cut.
That head on.
No one's ever called me moons.
No, Like my mouth keeps wanting to do that, but that's a very I think that's like an American thing, like throwing that as on Dude Moons. What's up Moon? Yeah, Moon's came through. Dude Moons came through in the pod. It was really fantastic. Yeah, but yeah, it's so great to have you here. Like like I was saying before, huge fans of your work, so it was really great to have you on to talk about this topic because it's Yeah, we just felt like, wait, we like this video,
we love this creator. Let's have a conversation with them, and everyone wins. Everyone wins because I'm sure many our listeners are also big fans too. Yeah.
This is definitely the guest that when I've told people.
Everyone's like, oh hell yeah really, oh damn, oh damn, Oh finally listen.
Oh my gokay, wait on your podcast if you swear yes, swear down bro in the title and everything. Yeah, swear down, man, We're gonna have Moon cat all right. Yeah I've been burnt before. Yeah, I put it in the title that one.
Yeah. I know. Look, Gavin McGinnis, he's a coward and he bailed on us. We thought we were gonna have a great conversation with him about the week.
But the wrong Gavin McGinnis, and we're sorry.
I could just be AI. I could just be an AI version of myself.
That's right, truly, Yeah, I mean for all we know. Yeah, yeah, but you showed us your hands. You had five digits. They didn't look all AI and stuff, so yeah, you passed the The.
Writing on your shirt is complete gibberish, but yeah, yeah it is.
What's your what do you say?
It says sleepy head until I'm dead?
Oh hell, that's actually I guess it's that as I am a very sleepy boy.
It has has a little kitten on it. Despite this brand called Dogcore. The owner of that brand, yeah, the owner of the brands just emailed me one day and was like, I love your videos. Let me send you a lot of free clothes. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not not affiliated with.
But yeah, you've you've helped uncover everything from fucking crypto influencers to most recently, evolutionary psychology. And we wanted to have you on to talk about your Manosphere video, which is a favorite of ours, and to really opened my eyes to a world that I wish I had never learned about, but I I think is important for our job covering the zeitgeist.
It was. It was very kind of enlightening.
As to what bullshit is happening, but just below the surface. So we're going to talk to you about that, but first we do like to get to know our guests a little bit better by asking you, what is something either from your search history that is revealing about who you are or something that you've recently screencapped on your phone taken a screenshot of that is revealing about.
Who you are.
Yeah, So I looked at my Google search history. The most recent thing was cheat coats for SIMS four. Yeah, because I've I suffer from migraines sometimes and I've had I'm better now, thankfully for this, but over the past couple of days I had an awful migraines. So I've just used it as an excuse to just play NonStop video games.
Yeah.
When I play the SIMS, I don't really I don't really play it in a normal way. What I do is I tend to like build extravagant like cottage homes and restaurants and things, and I just build and build and build and build. And then I'll like play the actual game where the Sims go around doing things for about five minutes, get born, and then I want to
build something else. Yeah, I just want to like create basically. So, but the cheat code that I was looking at was like it was these cheekos to allow you to put an object wherever you want it to because the normal game just makes you put an object in a specific place, right, But with that cheat code, unless you put the object like wherever you want it. And it also like unlocks all of the items in the inventory, so you can just go wild create this, like create whatever you want.
So yeah, that was my last Google search.
I feel like that's when I first started playing the SIMS. I like was like a younger. I think I was, what maybe just in high school getting out of high school, and I like I wanted a cool apartment, but I could not afford one, so I built the mansion in the SIMS. And then I think, didn't you need like the money cheat back then to be able to have like the nice speakers? Yeah? Nice raising.
Yeah, now SIMS has now Simms has like this build mode, so like people like me can just go wild and like money is not a thing.
Oh but back in.
The day you had to use the risk cheat to be able to build a mansion, which I did when I was like seven years old as well.
Like mother Load, I felt it was the other one too that you get the credits. Yeah. Yeah, and even with this sim city, I was doing some version of that. Yes, and listeners should know.
I mean this is probably implied and obvious, but anytime Miles and I are referencing our like lives or your children or any of those things, we're referencing things that are happening inside the SIMS.
Yeah, like that. Absolutely.
We don't have real significant others.
Come on, guys, I'm not married in real life. That would be weird. It's strange.
What's the what's the what's your favorite creation? The most saying thing you've ever built in SIMS?
For I built like my perfect country like cottage house I have. I have a dream of like having I don't know, like a little little country home that's just like out in the middle of nowhere with a little street stream running next to it. Yeah, yeah, that's what I That's what I built.
Is really with the water wheel too, maybe, oh yeah.
The water wheel absolutely, Yeah, a little bridge as well. Yeah, yeah, little chicken coop as well.
Yeah, what is like for someone in England? What is the ideal place to have that kind of cottage? Like, where is just out in.
The country somewhere, Like there's lots of There's there's so much country area in the UK. It's everywhere in the outskirts of leads. There's like loads of just country.
Like where where is the Cotswolds?
Where is the Cotswolds? To be honest, I'm not sure that's just a place.
I hear people in la Be like do you go to the Copswaks? I think it's in that.
I think it's in Is it in Cornwall? I'm pretty sure?
Yeah, let's see it's in southwest England. Uh oh, it's like north of Swindon. Oh cool. Anyway, good question, Miles. Now we're geo where I'm gonna show you a random photo.
It's just going to be us asking you where different places are in English.
It what's like the population of Oxford? I know all we're doing, Yeah, asking questions that don't matter at all.
I'm awful at all geography things.
So yeah, no, us two. So this is going to make a really good content because up. What is something that you think is underrated?
Uh, British food. Okay, it's got a reputation of being very bad and that, like I kind of see why, but but I think the Sunday roast is overlooked. The British Sunday roast, and also fish and chips is awesome. It's just great. Going to a chippy is great. So I think I don't I don't know why British food has an overall bad name because those two dishes alone are great. And I'm vegan as well, so I have I have to have vegan versions of both of those things.
But it's roast, then what replaces the roast beef in a vegan Sunday roast.
Just like whatever I can find at the supermarket.
But you have like mash and gravy and.
Yeah, yeah, so they'll be like yeah, yeah, you can't get them. They're quite rare though, actually because they're quite hard to make without egg. But what I'll generally get is like vegan sausages or something like that, which is easy to find.
Full English breakfast too, as I love, Yeah exactly, Yeah, you gotta know what to like, Like I love Cornish pasties every time I go to England, one of the first things as soon as I get off the train, I'm like, where's the fucking Cornish PASTI shop? Like just for my handheld food. Yeah, there's so many good things, but so.
Many good bits of British food, So don't give it a bad name.
Yeah.
Yeah, what do you when other countries think of American food? Just to turn that I'm uncomfortable with, must we're talking about America?
Yeah, at all times.
No, but because I was just trying to think, like, is it just like Hamburger?
Is that it?
I mean, that's that's what I think of When I think of American food. I think fast food. I think McDonald's.
Okay, accurate, So you've got us, you've got us.
Now.
I have gone to America a couple of times, but it was quite a while ago. But yeah, I found I found the portion sizes definitely to be a lot larger.
Yeah, they're obscene.
Yeah, so that that's what I kind of think of, and like burgers and chips.
Yeah, you're right.
So Sunday roast is essentially like a meat with like roast vegetables on the side, is essentially gravy.
A lot of gravy.
Yeah, yeah, okay, So it's like a small Thanksgiving dinner for Sunday.
Yeah exactly.
Yeah, that's great, yeah, hell yeah.
I love that for for you and and the world.
Do you want to have a roast Jack? What's up? Little Sunday roast? Shall we just to live like of some meat roast a turkey? Exactly once a year, but it's always pretty good. I feel like I've gotten good at that. And why make it such a special occasion? You know, get that brine, get my brine muscles, going moon cat? What is something you think is overrated?
People with PhDs? Turns out people people with doctor but you know, you know the Jordan Peterson's, the you know those types. I think people look up to people with PhDs and see them as sort of like bastions of truth in whatever they want to learn about, when people don't really realize that academics are very very sort of biased towards their own views on a subject and all their PhD does is allow them to sound more educated
in explaining their original opinion. But that's not necessarily the truth. And I feel like a lot of my videos try and point this out quite a lot. I feel like I'm sort of trying to reiterate this all the time in my videos, Like just because you have a PhD doesn't mean you're right about this thing. It just means that you've learned how to how to like talk about your opinion in a more educated way, with bigger words and with studies, the backyard kind of thing.
You're just the best at homework, that's yes, congratulations, toughed it out for a few more years in school to have three letters after your name.
But like, I think there's also for a lot of people who think like that PhD is almost shorthand for them to be like, well, when I get to that opinion, I don't need to and I don't need to look at this anymore because that person's the expert, and I don't need to like investigate or analyze anything they're saying, because PhD rather exactly you know, having any just a modicum of critical analysis. But hey, now.
Here on this show we actually usually say this about the other kind of doctors mds, because they had some crazy ideas during the pandemic. But we just listened to the PhDs and the people who claimed to have PhDs, and they generally steered the plane into the side of a mountain.
It was really bad. So yeah, no, yeah, doctor Phil basically is.
They really like that was a joke when I was younger, the idea of like PhDs insisting that they'd be called doctor, But it really came came back to bite everyone in the ass during the pandemic when it was like, yeah, I'm a doctor of sociologic Yeah exactly.
Yeah, yeah, so.
You should listen to me when I tell you not to get vaccinated. All right, Well that is a perfect transition into the subject of today's episode. We are going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
And we're back, And I mean, where do you start? Where to start with the Manisphere? Where to start?
I will say my first question about the Hemisphere was is why videos so long? All their videos seem to be at least three hours long?
What the fuck? And that's the thing that like kept me.
I wonder if it's a strategy like it kept me out, But like for the people who have the worm in their brain that is like desperate for more Manosphere content, like it just it's a very selective group that makes it through. I guess not that selective looking at some of the view counts. But for people with such little rigor to what they're actually saying, they sure say it a lot.
Yeah, and I had to watch a lot of very long videos.
I've never been more impressed by, like the level of research and also more sorry for the person doing that and watching your.
Mother it's like, yeah, same, like people who like monitor the alt right on the show. Yeah, like I know that because I'm like I'm in all these chat groups. Man, I'm in all these talm like, oh you poor motherfucker. I'm so sorry, but thank you, but thank you. Yeah.
I mean two time speed is a thing on YouTube.
Yefully it probably you really need to get the nuance, don't you of what these guys are saying.
I feel like it's.
Really you know, it's all very tonal and subtle and nope, no, it turns out it's not.
Yeah. The thing that all that struck me first is like when I think about the Manisphere, like I knew all these figures like you know, Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson and fresh and Fit and like Sneakle, all these like weirdos who you know are part of this this whole culture, but like I and I always knew that it was based on their misogynistic beliefs, but the thing that really came out on the video from me was like how much quasi science pseudo science they use to
sort of buttress their arguments, like in this way that it's not simply it's like dude, Like, chicks, don't you want to be like a dude anymore? Like they have Like so no, there's this thing called hypergami man, and that, like it's really interesting how they use these sort of academic in odes to then display, you know, to present
their completely like regressive thinking. Like can you just sort of give just everyone an idea of like those main sort of pseudoscientific arguments that are laid out to sort of justify this misogynistic worldview.
Yeah, well yeah, a lot of it's rooted in evolutionary psychology, which is why my most recent video decided to delve
into that a bit more. But yeah, their main ones is like is hypergamy, where they sort of say that women are wired to want to date men that earn more than them, and there's like no way that that could be programmed out of for them, it's just innate and feminism is just tricking them into thinking that they're not like that, but really they are like that, right, yeah, and yes, and then'll also talk about how rape culture is a myth and they'll use like cherry picked studies to try and that as well.
Right.
And also they'll say that that even when it comes to domestic violence, they'll say that women are more violent towards men than men are towards women, and they'll use cherry picks studies to to supposedly prove that. And they'll also they'll say things like the gene of wage gap is a myth as well, and they'll cherry pick certain studies to try and prove that as well.
So yeah, yeah, it's always striking how these like sort of these backwards ways of thinking, they're always they always find a way to be like that thing that is reality is actually not true, and here's this way to kind of intellectually get yourself out of this way of thinking or believing that what is happening is actually not happening and it's actually like a myth. And there's always this I'm always amazed at the just like the lack
of well, I'm sure we'll get to it. Just like just how like it feels like a lot of these ideologies they prop up when the like sort of like the logic of their beliefs hit a dead end, like like like being a man was supposed to be enough, you know, and I'm just I just exist, but things aren't. I'm not I'm not experiencing all these things I see on television or the things that I believed I am. So, now, well, what does that mean? Oh, it's that everything else is
fucked up. There's nothing I need to do to change. Let me now, like, let me stay sort of fixed in my belief and then begin to explain why everything else is not the issue or everything else is the issue, rather than like how I'm interacting with the world.
Yeah, it basically like whenever before I investigated the manosphere, I investigated quite a few different like scams, like sort of property investment scams and multi level marketing schemes and stuff like that, and I found that it definitely worked in much the same way as many scams, in the way that it would sort of target people and it would reel in people who definitely felt a bit lost in life and just were looking for, you know, like something else to blame it on and we're offering a
way out of that via paying who is ever whoever this influencer was for a course or whatever. So, yeah, the ministery were definitely real in men who sort of feel like they don't have a purpose in life. And I guess in the past, your purpose would have been more easily been like, oh, I'm a man, therefore my purpose is to provide for a woman and for children, Whereas it's not that easy anymore, just to have a purpose based on your gender. It's not that simple anymore.
So I think a lot of men they do feel a bit lost in life. And it's not you know, because of their gender. It's probably because of like capitalism, but they want to but they're looking to the pastern and they're thinking, well, in the past, I would have had this purpose, you know, to be a man, and I would have been given a wife, you know, by someone, and that would have been me and that would have been my life. But now I don't know what to do. It's everybody else's fault kind of thing, right.
I preferred middle stage capitalism, Yeah, exactly, that's when things were great.
Their their version of the past is also a wildly inaccurate version of what that time.
Oh yeah, they liked it. They like to say that women were happy in the nineteen fifties.
They absolutely were were happy.
They were all on drugs. Housewives were on drugs, right, yeah, lots.
Of the time. Yeah, we were just talking recent but like you know, the Stepford Wives being a commentary on that era of like just being so medicated that it was completely like not like dulling the senses of like a generation of women. But yeah, but now it's actually feminism that has created this unhappiness and now we're dealing with the fallout of that. Dude. Yeah, yeah, they their feminist shit.
In fact, the actual like details of the people that we meet in the video, like the fresh and Fit, well I was not familiar. Is that the name of the show where they just like get women drunk and then explain women to women?
Yeah, they don't.
They don't let them talk back, and if they do try and talk about they just kick them out of the podcast, supposedly beating them in the marketplace of ideas.
Right, It's amazing, Like I've never seen someone like people be more infuriating to somebody else, like just try like the things that they're saying about women, like the most dismissive, diminishing things. And then if in the off chance, like one episode out of many, like the women can't take it anymore and get angry, then the men are like, oh, you're just sensitive while being the most thin skinned creatures so emotional, get so emotional or anyone just like talking back to them.
It's it's so wild you put it out how like obviously you know people say this so much, especially in the US, like are you just in your feelings? Just in your feelings now? And then when they get caught out, it's like, no, I'm having a fact response, an emotional response, having a fact based response like.
Oh man, I forgot about that quote. That was hilarious.
The fact response is like, holy shit, man, the amount of mental gymnastics they got to do on that cognitive dissonance. It's it's it's wild. It's truly wild. Yeah.
That's why in my most recent video, I just dedicated a whole part of the video to facts versus feelings and how no one's only going off facts, absolutely, no one is. Every everybody has feelings and everybody's acting upon feelings and emotions. You can't escape them because if you if you did escape your emotions, then your brain wouldn't work, it would it would just short circuit.
Yeah, there is such a fear of feelings, clearly from all of these men. Yeah what I mean, which is why there has to be an emphasis on fact rather than like, I'm actually having feelings of terrible inadequacy. Yeah, no, dude, the facts are it's fucking hypergamy, man, and fucking eighty percent of the win. There's only twenty percent of the women available to the other eighty percent of men that are out there, because they're all going for the top
twenty percent. So that's like we're already dealing. So the way they have to set all of this shit up, it's really it's really fucking I mean, it makes sense because right, we're so averse to picking apart our egos or things like that, or bringing any self awareness to that that this is such a convenient way to avoid any kind of introspection or self critique because those are actual those are those things are actually by default like
impossible within the manosphere. Like I don't see many people being like, man, you gotta sit down, take an inventory of kind of what you're feeling, maybe how things from your past may relate to this now. It's always just like, no, let me externalize everything everything is happening outside of me, because I'm fine, but the world has gone fucking mad and now I just need to learn how to navigate that with my macho shit.
Yeah, which which kind of goes against the whole right wing perspective of individualism in a way. Doesn't it just like blaming everything around you.
Yeah, those are facts and they have nothing to do with my feelings. Okay, So I had never heard of Fresh and Fit or like a lot of the people covered. I did know Jordan Peterson pretty well at first point. He's a friend, and I think you were unfaird No. He like the degree to which he has crossed over is kind of staggering when you when you look at like what he's saying, and I mean hYP hypergamy is
that we're calling what he's calling it. Women are like these domesticated animals who just like can't help but like respond to these instincts that make them find you repulse. It's like the psychological shit they're all going through, like so many of the videos. I think you said at one point come down to how ugly do women find me?
Yeah, they're obsessed with like hierarchies, though they really want to put themselves on this hierarchy of how attractive they think they are to every woman, Like every woman is looking at a man and thinking, so, no, ten, they're not.
They're They're extremely subjective in how they find a man, how attractive they find a man to be right Whereas But but they're looking at women and thinking five, six of an eight, nine, ten or whatever, and they think that women are looking at men in the same way. They're absolutely not. Women all have different tastes and most men do as well, have all different tastes. But they think that everybody thinks that the way they do in this very sort of misogynistic way.
So, yeah, it's why haired chads and some women like dark haired chads. And that's it exactly. Those are the two tastes that you need a jaw bone that looks like an upside down football helmet.
Yeah, the perfect mandibular angle is what all women are looking for us.
But what do you like?
Who would you say is the most kind of dangerous of these people who you've who you've.
Encountered the most dangerous person in the manisphere.
Yeah, by the way, they are going to release a video after they're saying with that I'm the most dangerous person.
I would say probably Jordan Peterson because he's got the widest reach. He's got that whole PhD, I know what I'm talking about thing going on. They all look up to him. Like when I made my manusphere video, so many people in the comments were like, Jordan Peterson isn't a part of the manusphere. He absolutely is. He's like the king of the Manisphere. So yeah, i'd probably say him just because he's got the most reach, in the.
Most influence, and he's being embraced by political figures. I think that's what also makes it especially dangerous. I mean, like, you know, Andrew Tate is obviously like a scumbag and Viole and has is like a danger to society, But like the level to which Jordan Peterson has sort of been you know, nodded to, or like his ideas end up kind of like bleeding into like right wing yeah,
sort of poltical speech and things like that. Yeah, I definitely see that because it's again it's that PhD, that sort of takes it from Yeah, this isn't a guy wearing a fuzzy hat and a feather boa and giant sunglasses. This is a fucking PhD. Okay, they're saying the same thing, but the fact that the PhD is saying, I'm gonna give that some more weight.
Yeah, Andrew Tate is also dangerous, but he's dangerous in a much different way. But like he he only really I think most of the guys sort of into Manisphere ideas kind of look at Andrew Tait and think he's a bit of an idiot. So I think his I think his reaches is a lot. It's a lot less widespread than Jordan Peterson's, and I think, like, especially since the whole trafficking allegations, I think he Yeah, he will
say the opposite publicly. He will say that it's only improved his reach, but I think it has actually diminished diminished his reach a little bit because there are there are actually some guys in the Manisphere who are like, you know, I wouldn't go so far as to traffic women actually, so maybe he is so great jokes.
About it, but I will engage in the traffic. Yeah, that's a bridge too. Far, I will make people believe that I'm saying it not as a you know, winkie way, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean he's not the only person who has like bragged about committing assaults and you know, sexual violence in in this world like that. That was kind of shocking to me how many of these guys are actually saying that they're doing horrifying things like in the videos, like.
Yeah, yeah, that's how you kind of see like the evolution of it starts off with a like keep your room clean if you want to track a woman, and then turns into like why rape culture is vaporware, it's fake, it's nonsense, and it gets more and more you know, violent,
and yeah, it's really what. The thing that really struck me too is this kind of like it's so weird how these Manisphere figures who are like selling a course or whatever talk about the benefits of this mindset, of this mindset because all of their materials they use to sell these courses read like this fucking bizarro utopia in some nineties movie about being the coolest guy ever. And you put this out in your video about the seduction devil and his course, and like what he's prompt like,
this is what he's promising people. Okay, And I thought this is really eye opening from your video and this is from a Manisphere course. It's like ninety seven bucks or some shit. And it says in just one week across the court, it wasn't in seven In just one week.
After getting inside, you'll find yourself quote skipping the line at bars and clubs, high fiving the bouncers and befriending the staff, okay, attracting nines and tens effortlessly without saying a word word holy shit, Entering a cafe with your new girl, receiving a warm welcome, and discovering that your regular has already been prepared.
Oh my god, hey Jack, the regular, all right, I already had it here for you.
Whoa baller? Who's that another one on your arm? All right?
That can't be my man?
Hey, hi five. This fucking world doesn't even exist, not even for people who they would even think are that cool. But it's it's interesting to see how this like whatever, their lack of meaningful social interactions or what they believe they want to be, has created this like version of what they think is truly like. What like is what they're just sort of telling on themselves. It's like, so your fantasy is to walk into a cafe with your new girl and someone's like your regular, your ice, your
milk with ice is ready? Okay, you drink milk? Yeah, out of I drink half and half with some little bit of ice on the rocks.
Yeah. It did kind of remind me of like how the crypto scams work in a way. I don't know if you remember from my crypto video, the whole Crypto land where they were like, oh you could, you could move to this special island where everybody just trades with cryptocurrency and and we have communal working spaces and everybody's going to have a lambow, and but the whole thing was just so it was just, yeah, an absolute fantasy based on crypto. It's not realistic at all.
But it's so depressing that their vision of utopia is being beloved by service andes like that they like walk in and like everyone at Starbucks is like Yay's like it's just such an interesting like snapshot of like just dead, soulless and end stage capitalism where they're like and then I'm gonna walk in and instead of treating me like I'm just there to spend money. They're gonna really love me and they're the bouncer is gonna be like rules don't apply to you because.
They no smoking in here. Oh wait, it's you, hey man, spark up, dude, you're the best. It's like, what were you not hearing enough in your life that created this version. But again, I think it says a lot because a lot of people they are lacking this, so they do just like, oh my god, I would love nothing more than to passively attract a partner without having to do any work or any effort, or to have the fear of failure of being rejected. I'd rather I feel like
a human. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm such a fucking baller that my aura is enough to bring all the boys or women or whoever non bindary people to the yard. But I feeling for this it's mostly head dudes looking
for women. But like, you know, we talk a lot about deaths of despair, you know, and how they're rising, especially here in the United States, and it's clear that like America in this late stage capitalism era we're in is like unraveling, and there's like a cruel irony that like all of this manisphere shit is like almost like this, it's like a capitalist response to the chaos that has
been sown by capitalism. It's like, rather than in investigating any of that, it's like, let me sell you something that is absolute nonsense that will actually send you into a darker hole. Like you know, if these people were interested in making things better, there would certainly be some more again introspection analysis of like the forces that are shaping the world in which they live. But it's like, the problem isn't capitalism. It's that women are super vicial
and demanding too much. It's not capitalism, it's immigrants. How do you sort of see the relationship between the manisphere and an unwillingness to like engage in anything that is like, what, what's a solution here? It's because there's really no solution. It's more like the world's fucked up. This is how you be more fucked up to the world.
M yeah, it's I don't I honestly like, I don't know what the solution is other than trying to sort of give men a different sort of outlet, because there definitely is like a problem. I think specifically since the pandemic. I think everyone, like not just men, are feeling a lot more lonely right and they've been looking online for
solutions to that, and specifically with the manisphere. This sort of gateway drug is when you look up videos on how to talk to women to try and you know, pick them up or whatever they get, and like when you click on one of them, I mean that the algorithm will just take you further and further and further into the manisphere and until you eventually believe that women aren't actually sentient beings at all. They're just sort of
programmed to act a certain way. And you'll get to the pick up artists who will like literally give you a flow chart and they'll say like it's like a dialogue tree that you can have with a woman, and they'll be like, if you say this, this and this and this, then you'll definitely get her in bed kind of thing. And it is. It's selling a very sort of simple, simple solution to this very complex problem of loneliness,
which I think is a genuine problem. And I think that's exacerbated by dating apps because everybody relies on dating apps nowadays. And I do sympathize with men on dating apps because men have a much worse time on dating apps than women do, although women also do have a bad time, and that's why they're that's why they're leaving the apps, which which leaves more men on the apps than women, and that's why men will swipe right more on every women that they see and women will swipe
left more because they're expecting. Women are expecting a match with anyone that they swipe right on right, so that will make that will cause women to be more picky, and men are increasingly not expecting a match with whoever they swipe right on, so that will cause them to
be less picky. And that just happens more and more and more, and this feedback loop just happens even more increasingly all the time, until you get like a guy with barely any matches and a woman with too many matches and she doesn't know who to go on a date with, so like both genders are having a really awful time. But the mistake that the Manisphere makes, and the sort of that's the excuse that they use to bring a lot of people in, is to say that
this is like real life now because of feminism. But they've got no they've got no proof of that other than dating apps. But dating apps work that way for a reason because it's not real life because women have all left. But women haven't left real life. Women still go into like bars and things, and you can still like women are still interested in making friend groups, and
so are men. And I think we need to sort of try and get back to that sort of real life thing of mingling in friend groups and you know, making friendships that might turn into something else based on that, whereas I think nowadays we sort of rely on dating apps so much that a lot of men in the manosphere just like think that that's real life and that's.
Right based on the behaviors that they see or how things are being sordid.
Ye, a lot of it seems to be interhuman relations that are mediated by capitalists. Yeah, the dating apps profiles or the person who fantasizes about everybody in the bar who works at the bar liking them, and it just feels like everyone's turned into a product, Like this is all part of this weird thing where we're trying to apply the rules of capitalism, like late stage hypercapitalism to interactions and then we're like, what happened why is everybody.
So Yeah, it's like it's the same way that we ruined sort of like restaurants with all of these food delivery apps, and it's the same way that we ruined all of these taxi companies with Uber. It is because they try to like lays a fair capitalism all of these all of these companies and all of these industries, and they try to completely libertarianize them all. And they've
done the same with dating as well. And they've and then they've sort of realized that, oh, this is this isn't actually good for people.
Is it?
Like doing it like this.
Let's take one more break and we'll come back and finish out talking about this.
We'll be right back, man, We're back.
Yeah, I was gonna say I was so I had at my like loneliest I Remember, I had graduated college, the recession happened, I had gone through like a bad breakup. I was like completely didn't know what to make sense of my life because the everything I had been told about going to university, getting a degree that would land me a job that would create all this like life momentum was not happening, and my dating prospects were just like not great because I was just emotionally in a
terrible place. And I remember getting into pickup artist shit because I was like, maybe it's that I don't know how to actually like use the fucking game, like, you know, I read the game by Neil Strauss, and I was like, what the fuck, man, this is fucking wild, Like they they just they just bounced like location to location and then suddenly like you figured out a way to achieve like sex or something like that, and so most of
it too us. I realized, like it was just like even reading that stuff like this doesn't fucking make sense to me. But what did was that like I was really sad, you know, I had a deep seated fear of rejection and I wasn't really able to like come
to grips with that. And the second I was like, wait, I think I need to go to therapy, Like I think I need to actually work on myself, I can like it was sort of the only way for me to really see through that, because again, shit like pick up artistry or whatever offers you this really bizarre shortcut to not be like, oh yeah, dude, it's not that I'm fucking terribly fucking depressed and I haven't actually sorted
out who I am as a person. Is that I just need to figure out like what the what the different ways to like game someone is And and I think again, like this is why it's always interesting to see that, like the solution for what so many people are experiencing is that little bit of being able to sort of take care of yourself in a way that is actually is nourishing for like your soul, rather than kind of listening to some dude preached the like sort
of silver bullet answer. So I always find it really interesting, Like whenever I see this, I'm like, man, just look inward,
Just fucking look inward. So many things could be answered if you figure out what those what that dark that void is within yourself and how to address that, because if you fill it with this shit, it's just going to have this like you know, compounding effect where you end up on like these like really violent like insuls like groups and like picking up these other really terrible beliefs that only gonna take you deeper and deeper. So yeah, that was my brush. That was my brush with pick
up artistry. It was me at my lowest and loneliest and completely lacking any feelings of self worth. You still have the Jameric Quie hat. I don't call it Jamiqui, dude, it's cat in the hat, but pimp cat in the hat. Bro, it ain't Jamiroqui. It's just washed.
Okay. But yeah, like when you're at the like sort of low, at the low, I feel like a lot of content in the manisphere really really sort of allows people to self loathe and that can feel kind of weirdly comforting, like at that level, like just just to sort of say, oh, I'm I'm like I'm a one on the attractive scale. That means I will never ever
get a woman kind of thing. And to be sort of nihilistic in that way, I think is in a weird way, is kind of comforting to some to some people who end up in that Yeah, yeah.
Because you're like giving it ald what I'm gonna do? Bring someone back and introduce them to my mom. I'm twenty two years old, and then I'm like this is there. Yeah, this is one too. I should have a mansion and a lamplow by now. But you know what I mean. But that's like that's the ship that you're fed, right, You're socialized to be like xyz, then you get a degreemation. You should have at least a suburban you know what
I mean. But yeah, and you have to and it takes a second to like reconcile the how you've been socialized with the reality is and like give yourself a little bit of grace to be like, yeah, yeah, everyone is different. Actually it's not a bad thing. But I always treated that as to be like I can't I can't go out there living at home, like what I am going to tell someone? And then you see it's like, dude, am I like a low value male? So I gotta
step mic. But again it's easy to see how that turned, like the domino effect can begin for a lot of people. So yeah, shout out to one of my homegirls who's like, what are you What are you talking about right now? I'm like, no, is that?
Like I just like the thing you have to understand
about me is I'm a low value male like that? Yeah, there are like little catch there are a bunch of things in your Maniscer video that it's like, oh right, anytime someone's talking like putting some of the attractiveness on a numerical scale, or like talking about differences between men and women that are like intractable and like species wide evolutionary psychology, like there are all these things that it's like uh huh, like this this head's nowhere.
Good, right, because you're like, I will not be chosen. That's hardwired into us. Because a woman is looking for a male that will provide for them. I cannot provide for them. I live in my mom's yeah, you know, and then you're immediately.
But if you pay for their course, you can learn how to provide, right.
Yes, exactly. I wish. I wish that was one of those slugs where it's like, effortlessly bring nines and tens home and meet and have them meet your mom as you engage in consensual sex in your childhood bedroom. It's like I don't think, yeah, I know that's gonna happen, but you can't. I mean.
The last thing I just wanted to mention is that there seems to be a blindness in the mainstream media, Like, just as it relates to the zeitgeist, when there is an element of this type of misogyny in you know, a mass shooter or a you know, a terror attack, the media will pick up a thread of obviously if Islam is a motivating factor or white supremacy, even they'll
be willing to like kind of trace that. They will make up some left wing at a lot of the time, like it was anti fun, but they really drop the misogyny like pretty quickly. Like you you're pointing out, like the massacre in christ Church was I had processed that as mainly a white supremacist attack, but as you point out, his manifesto opens with, you know, talking about birth rates and you know a lot of the ideas that you see in these sorts of videos.
Yeah.
Absolutely, it definitely all all crosses crosses like crosses over with each other, all of it does. Yeah, because like if you if you start believing in one of these ideal ideologies, you'll find that a lot of the same influences will start We'll talk about these other issues as well.
And also if you start thinking about the reasons behind why all of these things are happening, you'll find that the only sort of logical narrative you can you can come to is that it all sort of boils down to anti Semitism basically, is what it all boils down
to at the end. Of the day, and you if you're not blaming something on capitalism, if you if you follow the logic of of misogyny or with racism, or with or with any of that, it's it's a very convoluted, unrealistic conspiracy theory that they will that they will use. But I don't know, it's like this, it's like this kind of unwillingness to blame capitalism for anything that that
leads people to go down that path instead. And I don't know if it's like an unwillingness to maybe admit that you were wrong because your logic doesn't make any narrative sense that so you had to end up with anti semitism. But yeah, it's it's it's all under that base, like he's hold under that umbrella.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lack of critique. Really it's like again, it's like falling into these it's just because you're looking for like sort of like a psycho emotional like shelter for your terrible beliefs. It's like, I don't hate women. It's actually that I'm just a man navigating a world filled with hypergamy. The trust me, they're the problem. I don't hate women. They hate themselves because of feminism. It's like,
do I I don't hate immigrants. It's actually, I'm living in a world where we're dealing with serious issues around falling birth rates in the future of democracy, if you know, immigrants are allowed to come in and completely reshape the electorate. It's like there's always going to be a place for people to learn why their shit beliefs are justified. And I think that's why it's so intoxicating, because again it's like, look, man, welcome to the manisphere. The last place we're going to
ask you to do some like digging into yourself. Okay, if anything, we're gonna we're going to excavate the shit
outside completely nor everything that's happening internally. It's that And that's the sort of guarantee we can offer you with this ideology, is that you won't have to look into your scary head and think about shit like that, because trust me, it's it's it's everything else that's yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's and I can see why if you're not fully you know, developed like it, and as an adult or whatever, how easily it is to like hoop into that and why you see, like younger people younger and
younger people. It's like, you know, someone in their mid twenties who's like tried to date, you can kind of see like sort of the momentum that takes them there. But like when teenagers are like already getting there, it's like, wow, it's that's right.
I feel like you young people are definitely susceptible to that kind of like edgy humor as well, where it's sort of it's like making jokes about Nazis and things that you know your parents wouldn't make because that's too
far out. But I think that kind of sort of edgy in quotation marks humor sort of works well on those young people because I think it's you know, naughty, so that in that way it sort of brings in the really young people because they think that they're being edgy and cool and stuff.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, I really you know, the right is currently a sendant in like European politics and in US politics. It continues to be much more popular than anybody would have thought heading into the year twenty sixteen. But the people who like made the call on like
we need someone like Trump, like Steve Bannon. The thing that the tea leaves that he was reading was like gamer game, And it feels like this is a powerful like engine of anger and hatred that is powering a lot of what is going on and also being not ignored. But I feel like the mainstream media like is just more willing to leave it, you know, and just like not not necessarily take it as seriously as some of
the other threads. Right, So yeah, that's why I really I really appreciated your video and but the ways that you were able to kind of kind of bring that out in just a lot of these trends that we're seeing.
Yeah, because yeah, I do feel like he gets ignored in the mainstream media. I mean I'm not sure why. Maybe because they don't want to, maybe because they see it as a sort of passing fad. Maybe I'm not sure, but it's it's definitely had a lot of staying power, at least like I think for the last few years, it's definitely had a lot of staying power.
So yeah, and I think, yeah, I mean again, it's like we can't count on corporate media to begin any kind of critique on capitalism like that, to say, like is this all connected? Because I'm sure like for young men who are like, what the fuck, I don't have a job. I'm not a baller. And it's like, I don't know. Is it because you're like, why is your economy? Why is the economy depressed in a way that you
think it shouldn't be? You know what I mean? Like, there are a lot of other factors that play into why you don't have Lambeau. It's not because you're not balling enough. It's because, I mean, if the Lambeau or not, you don't have a Honda accord because all of the wealth is being transferred up to people and you're more people are competing for finite resource, not hypergamy. It's every people.
More people are are competing for less and less available resources, and that's that's having an effect on everything.
So yeah, it is.
It is. It's just like sort of that loop of being like the sort of people who are being affected by capitalism. There's a way for an ideology to creep in, to explain a way it's like, well, don't don't start looking into that. I know this thing has messed you up, but I promise you it's not It's not that system. It's not the system. It's this other thing. And that's what I think is really insidious about the whole thing, because it really does prevent like sort of a larger
scale analysis or like awareness around it. It just allows us to kind of kick the can down the road, and people treat this group of being like they're just a bunch of weird guys. I don't know, but it's.
Hard to explain though as well, isn't it Like financial competency I think is a massive reason for this. I don't think people realize how how the economic system that we live under is actually built to enrich the richest and keep the poor poor by way of you know, paying interest on loans that they that they take out and you don't own anything anymore. It's it's all a monthly payment and it's but that's what we're born into when we think that that's normal, when actually it's not
how things used to be at all. But like that, but like millennials and Gen zs and genalpha's, they'll think that that's that's just the way things work, and so why why don't I have all of Why don't I have a house like my parents did at my age? And it's like, well, it's because of the economic system. But it's really difficult to explain why because economics works in such intrinsic, like intricate ways. So yeah, it's like, how do you explain that to people right now?
Yeah, and it's much easier to just say it's not my fault, it's everyone else's fault. And yeah, then the merry ground keeps going around and round. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
We really appreciate you coming on, and we really appreciate all the amazing videos that you're making and the great music as well. Where can people find you, follow you, hear you other good stuff.
I'm on YouTube at YouTube dot com slash Mooncat. That's where you'll find my videos, which is my main thing. I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Mooncat Music.
Yeah, amazing, And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying.
Since I've had a micro In the past couple of days, I've been absolutely binge watching Peep Show from season one and I actually realized I was looking it up online and I and I realized that America has actually tried to do a remake of Peep Show five times and failed every time.
What can't be? Yeah, Nah, we got our own Mitchell and Web that are killing it. It's Krasinski and fucking Pratt. Fuck comedian Web.
But yeah, I watched the I watched the first someone found the initial first pilot of the first attempted the American remake, and it had that guy from the Office in it.
What's it the main guy, Steve Correll?
No, the other guy, the Steve Carell. No. Oh, maybe it's not from the Office. No, no, no, the guy I'm thinking of it is from The Big Bang. Oh yeah, the guy who dates Penny whatever his name is.
Then there was Jesse Armstrong.
Wow is that what his name is?
They just had greenlit a new one there set and it says fifth times the charm for American peep show.
So Jesse Armstrong from Succession is going to take a stab at it. Well he would be the first. Wow. Wow. I mean, I don't know. I feel like it's like it's like Dune, right, I mean, I guess a bunch of people failed, but then I guess they kind of figured it out eventually, So maybe fifth time is the charm.
Oh, Jesse Armstrong created people in the first place.
What do you know? There? You go, pro Victor coming in with the safe But is that the thing it doesn't translate? I don't know. I mean the American Office surely did, but will will Peepshow?
Yeah?
I love the American Office. That definitely worked. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe there's something specific about Peep Show that doesn't work with American humor. I'm not sure, right, it's weird, mindy caring.
I'll figure it out.
Miles, Where can people find you? Is there a workimedia you've been enjoying?
Find me Twitter, Instagram at Miles of Gray, Find Jack and I on our basketball podcast, Miles and Jack om at Lucy. You can find me talking ninety day Fiance on four twenty Day Fiance with Sofia Alexandra a tweet. I don't really like your tweet. But you know what, I started watching that ren Fair show on that Oh yeah, it's fucking wild. It's so weird, like it's shot it's
a documentary, but it's shot cinematically. But all of these people are so into the Renfair world that it has this like really sort of like hyper realistic feel to it because they're truly saying things like King George gave me everything. I like. They refer to this guy who owns the Renaissance Fairs, King George. Wow, and it's like it's the hierarchies that they all like kind of fit. It's really wild and for someone like me who loves
a freaky ren fair check it out. Although the freaky little subculture the way the way it's shot is a little jarring because you it kind of blurs the lines and like, are these people for real or is this being acted? But no, it's it's it's real. So anyway, that's what I've been watching.
It's like, uh, Laguna Beach or Laguna whatever that show on MTV, Yeah, on MTV that Like at first it was like, wait, are these terrible actors or real? The most insincere?
No, they're so no, like they're so good at acting. If they're acting, You're like, they're so good. I don't know if they mean this right, and they're all everyone's like a kookie character so far. So yeah, anyway, watching You can.
Find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O. Brian tweet I've been enjoying just another check in from a version of the Manisphere. Thought Slime tweeted saw a Joe Rogan clip where he said that nobody knows why ghosts.
Exist in every culture.
It may be the single dumbest thing I've ever heard someone say, nobody knows would exist in every culture, you know.
Like what, that's the way I came across like even shore psychology. They're like they find something that exists across every culture, not thinking about the fact that every culture in the world is definitely overcrossed with it every other culture, Like, well, clearly it's it's ingrained in our minds. And if every culture does it.
No, yeah, I don't know, why would everyone do it?
I guess someone just mean ghosts are real, you know, because it can't be that Memorial can't do that. Everybody struggles with fear of death in the finality of.
Its No no, no, no, no.
No, no, dude, I'll be I'll be balling when I died. Dude, I can't wait. Like, you don't even matter. I don't know about ghosts.
Nobody knows, nobody can explain it. You can find me on Twitter, Jack Underscore Brian. You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist where at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram.
We have a Facebook fan page and a website. Daily zeitgis dot com.
We post our episodes and our foot Nope. We link off to the information we talked about in today's episode, as well as a.
Song that we think you might enjoy. Miles of the song. Do you think people might enjoy it? I think I think our listeners should check out our guests music, check out Mooncat's music. But ay, there's one track I like. I mean, I like all these tracks, but there's one specifically because I used to drive a Honda. It's called Honda Civic.
Oh yeah, that's that's a deep.
Cold, heavy and you know it's like what what what would we call that? Genre wise? It's like sci fi, trap, R and B pop.
I guess yeah, like irap R and B pop.
I like this. I like the synth stuttering, you know what I mean. We get a little you know, we're getting some uh like snare chains and ship like that. It's all good.
I like you, so you should too. Honda Civic buy Mooncat. We will link off to that in the footnote. Dailygeist is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows that is gonna do it for us this morning, act this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to you all then.
Bye bye m