Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three, twenty six, episode two of der Daily's Iday production of iHeartRadio.
This is a podcast where.
We take a deep dive into American share consciousness. And it is Tuesday, February twenty seventh, twenty twenty four.
Oh yeah, it's I mean, what is that? That means? It's Tuesday that we said twenty seventh? Is that where we are?
That's right?
Seven two four. It's uh a Nausema Awareness Day. It's National Retro Day, so I guess honor your see through telephones and vinyl players. National Polar Bear Day, National Strawberry Day, National Koalua Day, for all the for for all my Kolua lovers out there, it's the day is yours. The day is the white Russian?
Is Kolua white Russian? Or no?
That's Bailey's right, I think so, I don't know. It's just much either way. It's just a way too much sugar and you will have a bad time if that's all you drink.
So yeah, that's right. Well, my name is Jack O'Brien aga. Don't you wish your snack food were sweet like this?
Don't you want more?
Vague disk satisfiying bliss, don't you. That is courtesy of Cleo Universe, in reference to the fact that some of the greatest science of the late twentieth century was spent focusing on how to get the perfect balance of mouth feel and like enjoyment and dissatisfaction in nacho cheese doritos.
And yeah, gotta keep on popping them.
That's gotta gotta make them keep popping. That's uh, that's who we are as a civilization. Unfortunately yet time and I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host mister Miles.
Graam, Miles Gray, Gag Boss, the Warren Bond rock Kinside Boss, the Warrant Bondai rock kin Side. And that is the reference to Senator Elizabeth Warren saying her dream blunt rotation was just to smoke with the rock and my body curled into itself and I became a stand and drifted off into the sea. Yes, thank you to Laceroni for that one, for letting us know that's what you're gonna pass the duchy on the rock hand side.
On the rock hand side, I wonder what the rock would be like, Hi, I feel like, probably pretty fun.
Because you know, he's like simmering conservative underneath the surface, saying like I'm not good. It would just be like getting high with Joe Rogue. It's like I feel like it's you know, he'd say something weird and then being like he'd probably like make an observation about your physique. He'ah good, Dude's like you're right handed. Huh yeah, I could tell man based on how your shoulders built. And you're like, okay, going on, yeah, yeah.
Have some workout tips for you. I'm solicited. Don't need that, Miles. We are thrilled to be joined by the hosts of the Mystery AI Hype Theater three thousand podcast. It's doctor Alex Hannah and professor Emily and Bendas.
Hello, Hello, welcome, Welcome to both of you.
Yeah, in addition to being podcast hosts, the highest honor one can attain in our world, you both have some pretty impressive credits, so I just wanted to go through those as well. Of top Emily, you are a linguist and professor at the University of Washington, where you are director of the Computational Linguistics Laboratory. Alex you are director of research at the Distributed AI Research Institute. You're both widely published, you both received a number of academic awards,
you both have PhDs. What are you doing on our podcast? Is how what you like? Our booker is really good shout out to super producer Victor, But this is I don't know what's going on here.
Yeah, we're excited to be here. And part of what's going on is that, you know, we're talking to the world about how AI, so called AI isn't all that right, and so a chance to have this conversation is really helpful and important.
We've been talking about that for a while, but you are listening to your podcast really drove some things home. So I'm very excited about this conversation.
Ar Yeah. Every time we have like we've had doctor Kerrie mcinernie on before. We think it's been on your show as well, every time we pick and uh juau sayak out in New York. We were just always talking about like our own evolution with how we felt about AI, because before I was like, it's gonna take all the writing jobs, and then people are like it's not. I'm like, how do you know, Like here's some more information. I'm like,
it's vaporware to make money. So it's always nice, like, yeah, it's always nice to kind of keep, you know, pushing my own understanding along because I also encounter, you know, a lot of friends and family who also kind of have the same thing. There's still at to like, this stuff looks like it's gonna change the world forever in a way we'll never know. And yes, so it's always great to have the input of actual learned experts on the time learned expertise.
So we're going to get into all of that, but before we do, we like to get to know our guests a little bit better by asking you, what is something from your search history that is revealing about who you guys are.
I have an exciting one I can start, Hey, this is Alex. Yeah, so I'm building a chicken coop because my second job, rather than more one of my third jobs is kind of being a little suburban farmer. And so I'm getting some chicks delivered from a hatchery. And they said you need to put this directly into the browder,
and I'm like, what's a brooder? And I had looked up what a brooder is and then came up and found that it can be anything from a rubber maide tub where you put the chickens while they're very small, until like a repurposed rabbit hut. So then I started thinking all morning about how to build a chicken Breweder's.
And wait, just so, it's just like a like it's like a pen, like a mini pen for the chien to just kind of.
Yeah, it's like a little pen for the chicks, and you put in a heat lamp, you know, because they need to be warm. Small, and they don't. They have only got that chicken fuzz. They don't have the chicken feathers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they.
Need to me this sounds like a job for a shoe box. But that's probably too small, too small, small, Unfortunately, that's what they're getting. If I'm building a chicken, you can also what I got if you're in if you're in a if you're in a rush, you can use your bathtub if you have one of those, and put some puppy pads. Yeah.
I learned a lot about this today as I was just waiting for another meeting to start and just read everything I.
Could nice and of course that chicken coop is gonna come in handy free eggs during the robot apocalypse, right, which Sam Altman has told me is coming. So I have to assume that's also what you're thinking, right, right.
I mean she's prepping, she's prepping for the eventual DEMID. Yeah.
I think during.
COVID, I think there was a run on chicken eggs, and then so I'd go to Costco and you couldn't get the gross of chicken eggs, And then I'd go, hey, and I went to my backyard.
Market got them for eight bucks an egg if you want to.
Yeah, yeah, they are still really expensive. Emily, how about you? What's something from your search history?
So I took a look, and it's a bunch of boring stuff, like I can't remember it can't be bothered to remember the website of a certain journal that I was interested in. So I'm like searching the name of the journal. But then like down below that we've been watching for all mankind, which is this like alternate timeline thing that that that's a what happens if the Soviets landed on the moon first? Right, right, So it diverges in the nineteen sixties, but it keeps referencing actual history.
So my search history is full of like, okay, so when did the Vietnam War actually end?
Right?
And like know which Apollo mission did what. So it's a bunch of queries like that, sort of comparing what's in the show to actual history.
How does that line up based on your sort of cursory research as you watch the show?
So interestingly, So there's there's a point where Ted Kennedy is like in the background being talked about not going to chap Equittic. Oh, and then an episode later he's president.
Wow.
So there's and I suspect there's way more of that kind of stuff that I'm not catching right, right.
Right, just subtle things right right.
The media is like and Ted Kennedy missed a barbecue this weekend in chap Equittic. That's that's super interesting. Yeah, this is you know, third or fourth person who's mentioned for all mankind to us, I think this is pushing it over the threshold to where I have to I have to watch this damn thing.
It's enjoyable, but it's tense. I don't know anything worth Like people in outer space really creeps me out because like that that degree of like lowliness and sort of lack of failsafes, you know, like when all the fail says are there are the ones that you built and beyond that, you know, your sol that's that's creepy.
It seems uncomfortable outer space.
Yeah, what is something, Alex that you think is underrated?
I was trying to think of something and the only thing I could come up with this morning was the Nintendo Virtual Boy.
The red goggles on a tripod.
The red goggles on a tripod, and I know, you know, and whatever. Twenty years later, thirty years later, I think at this point, you know, Apple has its Apple Vision Pro that looks pretty much the same except you can walk around with it right right right. All I remember is that I really really really wanted a Nintendo Virtual
Boy when I was whatever ten or old. I was in nineteen ninety five, and you know, but then I was reading the Wikipedia page and it kind of said, you know, know it it was gonna be people headaches, and it was overpriced. And but I'm going to stand
by my claim that it is underrated. It was ahead of its time and it was one of those products that completely you know, I don't know, I think, you know, if you could go back, maybe it was just maybe I don't know, I don't know what they could have done differently, but yeah, that's that's all I got.
Was hell, have you seen? Okay? So I was the same way, like I used to subscribe to Nintendo Power all that shit. It was such a nerdy game kid, and when like those ads for it, it was like this is the future. It blew my mind. My parents obviously were like, that's a hell no for a month, right, how silly you would look?
We don't yeah deal with or in public with that.
Yeah, it's also like a couple of grand wasn't It was just ridiculously it.
Was something I think it was like a few It was just something like more than like what a PlayStation cost, which was sort of like the height of it or something like. Anyway, I remember a kid in my school had one, brought it to school and we lined up to play it, and it was the most underwhelming experience that like it broke because like there's nothing VR about this. It's like lightly three D everything I feel like in this like monochromatic, like red scale kind of graphic thing.
It just was really it was underwhelming, But I completely follow the same path you had. Alex and being like this is I need this?
This was the future?
Yeah yeah yeah, and yeah, like that's so funny. And never even thought about the Vision pro as being like the like the spiritual sequel.
Exactly, it's the direct descendant. Yeah, you know the Nintendo Virtual Boy crawled, so the Apple Vision bro exactly right.
How about you, Emily, what is something you think is underrated?
So after listening to a couple of your episodes and like all the nineties nostalgia, I have to say gen x.
Xx, Yeah, people I thought were the coolest.
We've got some monsters among us, you know, yeah, yeah, but you know gen X were small. We're scrappy. I saw someone a millennial that I know, online posting something about how weird it is to talk to gen X folks about their internet experiences are a back. Don't cite the old magic to me.
I was there when.
It was created. Although I feel like I feel like it's it is. It's a bit meta, Emily, because I feel like gen xers are always going to say that they're underrated, like they're underappreciated, and it's it's kind of a class.
It's our whole identity exactly.
It is.
It is a referential Yeah, it's a class feature of gen xers to say that they are unappreciated. And you know, you children have to struggle with AOL dial up. You know, how about this, you know, prior no internet or yeah, I.
Mean unless you you don't even know how to read the math.
Yeah, yeah, I grew up in l A. I know how to use a Thompson Guide or Thomas Guide.
That's that was.
That was our Google Maps before anything. But yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, like I think about too, like as like an older millennial, like gen X were all the people I thought were the coolest people growing up, Like this is like I want to be I want to be a hacker. I want to be like them of oh yeah, well hey, I don't know what are we going to say about ourselves as millennials. I wonder I think we're just like we're just dead inside on some level that we're like, yeah, whatever, cool we are.
We're dead inside and we killed everything, right that the stock you know, millennials are killing, you know, the napkin industry.
Right, but the toast is going to be so good, Yeah.
It's going to be amazing. We you know, we killed housing somehow because we spent too much on avocado toast. Yes, and you know, you know tumoric lattes or whatever, those are good, Like they're good.
Though maybe maybe even underrated.
There will be two people will be proposing to each other with rings made of turmeric and avocado instead of diamonds, because you build the diamond industry.
Our new currency. Yes, yeah, but we always talk about that. Framing is just basically millennials can't afford X thing, right, we can't. We're not killing the diamond industry. We don't have money for diamond industry. We don't have money for these.
Other millennials have this weird trend of living five to an apartment because they love it. Yeah, what, Alex, what's something you think is overrated?
Well, we're we're all that, We're all the AI stuff and so you know we're both Emily and I are gonna talk about parts of it. But image generators for sure. Text the image generator, I mean people think they're very flashy,
but I mean it does a lot of copying. You know, I was going to talk at a San Francisco public library with Carlo Ortiz, who's a concept artist, and she had all these examples in which you know, give it a prompt and it would literally just copy kind of a game art and then put it on the new
thing and have some kind of swivels around it. But the stuff is just I mean, and it's also I mean, the the kind of images the thing, it's this this distinctive style that esthetically, apart from all the problems with the stuff and the non consensual use and the data theft and all the awful kinds of you know, non consensual deep fake porn and the kind of like far right imagery, like, the stuff is just ugly, Like it's got this like every every person in it just looks sunken.
They look like they've just seen some shit, you know, they've got some.
Showers like it's a mistare.
Yeah, just just glassy, and you're just you're just like what is the appeal?
You know?
And and so I just yeah, I just I don't like it.
Yeah, I think every so many things when people try and do like real life, because I look at like the mid Journey subreddit on Reddit to see like what people are making, and that was sort of like my entermre, Like wow, these like like when people get the prompt. Right, it's interesting. They're like Simpsons but real life characters and also from but from a Korean drama. Like okay, so we're getting the Korean like the k drama irl Simpsons, but all the the aesthetic like all looks like like
sort of like David la Chappelle's photography. It's weird. There's like this hyper stylized look to it that feels very specific, And I think the thing that interests me is sort of like, as someone who's terrible at visual art, it's like this way for someone with absolutely no talent in that area to be like I summon this thing I'm thinking of and you're like, fine, it's a bunch of copies. But like I think that's the thing that most people are like, oh cool, right, it made the thing.
It made the thing it made mediocre like art.
I had the thought AI is like a doesn't matter generator, like Star Trek has the matter generator, and it is like ship out a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter. That's like uninspired, but it like matters to you for a split second. You know, it's like, hey, wow, that is that's weird that like that just came from a text prompt, but it's it actually doesn't matter in any long term sense.
Right, Yeah, that's I love that framing. I mean, what's that famous that the the like image of the like the diner, Yeah.
The nighthawks. Is that what it's called?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. And someone had this great thread. Well, no, it was a troll thread though, you know what I'm talking about. There was like the nighthawks that the image and and and then someone was like I thought it, like, look at this composition. It's so boring. What if they were happier? And it was kind of like a troll thread. I think it was, Like.
I thought, I thought it was genuine. I thought that they were really saying I'm making it better with AI.
I think it was. I think it was a troll thread. It's like, why are these people so sad.
When if they were happy?
What if it was daytime? Yeah, it was. It was sort of like that, like you know, and I thought it was a troll thread. Maybe I'm granting posters like a little too much like Grace here, but I think it was like the idea of like I made it interesting. Look at this?
Why is it so dark?
Yeah? Right? What if there was confetti.
I know, what if like a swagged out pope was also sitting at.
So much can image, but the swinded out pope did though.
I thought it was real, and I was and then I was like, this is such a cool But again, it's.
Not like chat GPT was like, you know it would be funny. It was somebody was like, you know what would be funny and gave that prompt to chat GBT and then it ended up being But like that's that's the thing that you guys talk about a lot, is just the erasure of like people are like, well and here's chat GBT doing this thing, and it's like that somebody told it to do and then programmed it to do, like it's doing a specific It is not a person who is coming up.
It's like talking about like Picasso's paint brush, but just as the paint brush, like look what the paint brush did, Oh my god, dude, which is cool.
And then there's like a little like Buddhism there that I appreciate, but I feel like that's not where it's headed unfortunately. Emily, do you have something that you think is overrated?
Yeah? I mean the short answer is large language models are overrated, But I think we're going to get into that we are probably, so I'm going to shift to my secondary answer, which is actually to take a page from Alex's work to say that scale is overrepresented. That if the goal of taking something and scaling it to millions of people is like the thing, the only folks really benefiting from that are the capitalists behind it. Right,
the product is worse. The impact on the societies or the communities that lost access to whatever their local solution was is worse. Right, So scale is the thing that so many people are chasing, especially in the Bay Area, but also up here in Seattle, and it's.
Way over it all over in every place. Everyone will hear that all the time, and like, yeah, yeah.
I worked on a website that had like really was having really fast growth, and you know, it is just based on like publishing these three articles a day and really like focusing on making them as good as possible. And unfortunately, once it got a lot of then the executives came in and their first question was how do we scale this? How do we scale this? Though, like, how do we get a hundred articles a day? And
I was like, back in two thousand and ten. You know, but it's just been how capitalism thinks about this from the beginning. Yeah, and now they're doing it with movies. They're like, who needs movies? Now I could make myself the star of Oppenheimer. It's like, why would you want to do what.
You seems like you missed the point of that movie.
Okay, I want to be destroyer of world.
Oh that may feel strong? Yeah, yeah, all right, Well let's take a quick break and we'll come back and get into it. We'll be right back, and we're back. We're back and yeah, So, as we mentioned, you know, we've done some episodes on how there's a lot of hype around it. Your podcast really helped me understand just
how much of the current AI crazes really hype. There's this one anecdote I just wanted to mention where a physicist who works for a car company was brought into a meeting to talk about hydraulic breaks and one of the executives of the car company asked them if putting some AI in the brakes wouldn't help them operate more smoothly, which they were kind of confounded, And we're like, what does what do you like, I guess that gets to the big question I have a lot of the time
with AI hype in the media, which is, what do these people think AI is?
It's magic fairy dust, But you actually made it slightly more plausible by making it breaks. The story was pistons pistons, okay, and the engineer was like, it's metal. There's no circus here.
Right, Yeah, But yeah, I mean, there are three kind of big ideas that I got a new perspective on from your show that I wanted to start with. The first one is kind of this distinction between limited and general intelligence or like general AI, which is something that I've heard mentioned a lot in the past couple of
years in articles about chat GPT. They're basically trying to use this as a distinction to say, look, we've known that computers can beat a chess master for a while now, but the distinction that we are trying to sell to you is that this one is different because it's a general intelligence. It can kind of reason its way into
doing lots of things. Yeah, and one of the details I heard you point out on your show is that it's still pretty limited, like it's still basically doing a single thing pretty well, like that the chat GPT is can you can you talk about that, like what is it? What is that distinction and how kind of imaginary it is?
Yeah, So before Alice goes off on chess as a thing in this and we'll get there, Alex, you're right that chat GYPTA does one thing well. But the one thing that's doing well is coming up with plausible sequences of words.
Right.
The problem is that those plausible sequences of words can be on any topic. So it looks like it is doing well at playing trivia games and being a search engine and writing legal documents and giving medical diagnoses, and the less you know about the stuff you're asking it, the more plausible and authoritative it sounds. But in fact, underlyingly it's doing just one thing, predicting a plausible sequence of words, right.
Yeah.
And the thing about chess is that it wasn't too long ago that general intelligence meant chess playing, you know, and so yeah, you had you had these you know, during the Cold War, they would have these machines that could play chess, and then that was supposed to be a substitute for general AI. They thought that was general intelligence and it was.
A big deal.
When you know, IBM Watson beat Gary Kasparov, and you know IBM Watson was that deep people, Yes, yes, Watson Watson won Jeopardy, Jeopardy, yeah it it beat it, beat Ken Jennings and then so yeah, thank you. It was another one those IBM. And so then that was the kind of that was that was the bar. And then they're like, well, Tess is now too easy.
We have to do.
We have to do go go, you know. And then and then they got it into some real time strategy games like like StarCraft and and Doda too, and so you know, so there's always been this kind of thing that's been a stand in for intelligence, and this has been what the advertisement for, you know, for general intelligences. And so in addition to what Emily's saying, it's really good at doing this next word thing. I mean, it seems to achieve some acceptable baseline for all these different tasks.
But then these tasks become like stand ins for general intelligence, and it's really it really gives away the game when you know, people like Mark Zuckerberg, you know, come out and they say, well, Matt is going to work on AGI. Now I don't really know what that is but you know, we're going to do.
It, but you guys seem to like it as investors, and so therefore that is what we're going to call everything now.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's literally turning back towards the machine and like dialing up the AGI nob and seeing if the crowd, you know, since seems to tear at it.
Yeah, so I think Emily, you were saying that just you were specifically saying that they would take an existing sentence, like one of the training methods, take an existing sentence, come rubble word, computer guesses what that word is and then compares guests to what the actual word is, and like it got better and better at doing that until it seems like the computer is talking to you using
the language a human would use in conversation. Like just hearing it put that way for some reason was like, oh, it's so it's like just better. It's doing the same thing that a chess computer does, but it's just more broadly impressive to people who don't know how to play chess.
So it's it's not actually doing the same thing that a chess computer does. So what Deep Blue did was they just threw enough computation at to calculate it out, what are the outcomes of these moves, what opens up, what opens up? And you put enough calculation in for chess that's doable with computers of the era of Deep Blue Go. It turns out the search space is much
bigger so the Alpha Go. What they did was they actually trained it more like a language model on the sequences of moves in games from really highly rated go players. Someone beat it recently by playing terribly and then it was like, I don't know what to do, yeah, because it was completely.
Yeah, that's why I usually lose at chess.
I'm so much better than everybody that the level confuses.
So there was a big deal about how GPT four
could play chess super well. And one of the things about most of the models that are out there right now is we know nothing about their training data or very little, like the companies are closed on the training data, even open AI right but people figured out that there's actually an enormous corpus of highly rated chess players chess games in the training data in the specific notation for GPT four, So when it's playing chess, it is doing predict a likely next token based on that part of
its training data. But that's not what Deep Blue is up to. Deep Blue is a different strategy. And in all of these cases, there's this idea that, like, well, chess is something that smart people do, so if a computer can play chess, that means we've built something really smart, which is ridiculous. And I just want to be very clear that Alex and I aren't saying there's some better way to build AGI, right, We're saying there's better ways to seek out effective automation in our lives.
I'm kind of.
Speaking for you there, Alex, but I think we're I think we're in a great yeah.
Or rather, I mean, even if we want automation and particular parts of our lives, you know, what is what is the function of making chess robots?
Right?
And you know, insofar is building chess robots in the Cold War? I mean a lot of it had to do with you know, Cold War kind of scientific documen, you know, the US versus the USSR and seeing if we could do better, you know, and you know, chess was one front getting to the moon. Speaking of the show which has already completely evaded me that we were talking about earlier for all mankind, for all mankind, thank you, please cut me out, make me sound smart.
It's a tough title. It doesn't stick in the brain. And they should have used AI to name that show. Yeah exactly, Yeah.
Yeah, historical sexism that makes it stick, maybe makes it a little.
Bit slipper, right, yes, yeah, so it's the same thing, you know, get into the moon first. So I mean this becomes a stand in, you know, and it's you know a lot of it is frankly kind of showingism.
You know, mine can do it better than yours, and you know, and and really getting to that and so you know, this association with chess, as m least said, of like this thing smart people can seem to do, not things like this automation useful in these people's lives, right, will it make these kind of runt tasks kind of easier for people? And said we sort of jumped over that completely to go, let's make this art kind of thing and oh, it's going to put out a bunch
of you know, concept artists and writers. Even if it doesn't work, well, you know, we're going to scare the wits out of these people who do this for a living.
What right, like is there I feel like you know, looking at Cees and just what happened at Cees. So many companies like it's got AI like this thing this refrigerators you AI. And I feel like for most people who are just consumers are just kind of passively getting this information. There's like a discrepancy between how it's being
marketed and what it is actually doing. Right yeah, and can you And so part of me is like how the like why are all these C suite maniacs suddenly being like, dude, this is the future, Like you got
to get in on it. And I know that a lot of it is hype, but can you sort of like help me understand like the hypeline or pipeline to how a company says ooh, this is what we do, and then how that creeps up to the capitalists where then they're like yeah, yeah, yeah, what what what and then begin to say like make these proclamations about what large language models are doing or how it's going to
revolutionize things. What sort of like because from your perspective, can you just sort of be like just give us the the unfiltered like this is how this like this conversation is moving from these laboratories into places like Goldman Sachs.
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of a lot of hype seems to op rate via fomo. It's honestly, honestly, if you wants it kind of reductive kind of way, you need to get in on this at the ground level. If you don't, you're going to be missing out on
huge opportunities, huge returns on investment, right. And one of the ways I would say that AI hype is kind of at least a bit qualitatively different then let's say I don't know crypto or n F T S or yeah, you know, you know DeFi is that you know, crypto has kind of shown itself to be such a such a you know, house of cards that you know it doesn't it takes only a few things like you're Sam Bankman free and going to jail, or you know, these
these huge kinds of scandals happening with with finance and coin base, that you know, those things, and then it's the wild fluctuation of bitcoin and other types of crypto that at least you have some kind of proof of concepts on this on this chat GPT where it seems like this thing can do a lot, and so there's enough kind of stability in that where folks say, yeah,
let's let's go ahead and get in on this. And if we don't get it on the ground floor, we're missing out on millions or billions of dollars in in ROI. And so you know, this is you know, but the hype, I mean, the hype is really at its base is kind of fomo element of it, and it's and I think it's just the the thing where, you know, it obscures so much of what's going going on under the hood, and folks just think it's magic. You know, you see
gen jen ai. People say we're putting gen ai in this that that you could rub it on an engine. When yeah, when when when AI itself I mean itself, that kind of calling things AI, I mean it self has this marketing quality to it. It's really you know, but if you kind of look at the class of technologies have been called AI since the inception of AI and then mid nineteen fifties, it can be anything as basic as a logistic regression, which is a very basic
statistical method that it's taught in stats. You know, one A one or two A one too. You know, these language models that we see open AI, howking, and so you could say AI isn't anything I've got AI, I've programmed by hand, I did the math by hand.
Ooh right, you know right? Yeah.
So I think what's part of what's going on here is that because of the way chat GPT was set up as a demo and then all these people did free pr for open a sort of sharing their screencaps, everybody has the sense that there's a machine that can actually reason right now, and then you call anything else AI, and that the lubiz factor from chat GPT is sort of like makes the whole thing sparkle. There's a funny story from this conference called NEUROPS, which is neural information
processing systems, not real neurons. These are the fake ones that these things are built out of. It's like a mathematical function that's sort of an approximation of a nineteen forties notion of what a neuron is. And a few years back, I want to say, like.
I sound impressed by the way.
Around twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, I think some folks at NEUREPS did a parody. They put together this pitch deck of a company that was going to build AGI and it's ridiculous. Like the pitch deck is basically step three it dot step three profit, Like there's nothing in there. And this was just on the cusp of when AI went from being sort of a joke like you wouldn't call your work AI if you were serious, to where
we are now. And what these people didn't realize when they were doing their pitch deck was that there were some folks in the audience who had already stepped over into that, like, you know, AI, true believer, We're going to make a lot of money on this step. People came up and offered them money for their fake company.
That's great.
Yeah, so it's say it's like the dot com boom. Yeah, there's just like what's the company called some dot com?
They're ready for the next thing, right, they've like kind of stalled out post iPhone, and they're like ready for the next big thing, whether it's here or not. And so yeah, the g whiz afication or like the g whiz results from open AI and chat GPT I feel like they were like good enough, let's get this thing going, Let's get this machine cranking out. The idea of describing
like the mistakes that chat GPT makes as hallucinations. Like the marketing that's being done across the board here is pretty impressive.
The fact that CHATGPT even uses the word I right, that's a programming choice. Yeah, could have been otherwise and would have made things much much clearer.
Right, Yeah, chat GPT is trained on the entire Internet.
Not true.
Yeah, that was something that I accepted when it first started. I'm like, well, this thing hallucinates and its brain is the entire Internet in what could go wrong?
So the thing about the phrase entire internet is that the Internet is not a thing where you can go somewhere and download, right. It is distributed, and so if you are going to collect information from the Internet, you have to decide which URLs you're going to visit, and they aren't all listed in one place. So there's no way to say the entire Internet. There's some choices happening already.
Yeah.
And what they mean when they say the entire Internet, I mean most of the time, they mean most of the English available Internet, And you mean, and although they've got some, but then much of the work that has been translated has been actually machine translated from English into another language. So, for instance, you know, a bunch of the URLs that they have are from the Google Japanese
patents and common crawl and the Dodge paper. Yeah, a lot of it's been machine translated from English into Japanese use and it's just available through like Google's Japanese patent site. And so a bunch of this stuff is you know, just just loaded in and.
It's and so and so.
I mentioned this data set common crawl, which isn't you know, in the GPT two paper I think they cite it, or it's the TPT three paper. It's I think it's a GPT three P pair And they said, yeah, it's the common crawl. Is this data set that they say they use, which is this kind of this weird like nonprofit I was collecting a bunch of data that could be useful for some limited scientific inquiry, but then it
became now they've completely rebranded themselves. They're saying, we have the data that you know, fuels large language models and Mozilla, the Mozilla Foundation folks that also the corporation makes the web browser Firefox. They did this report on common crawl and kind of what's behind it too, and and find you know, the weird idiosyncrasies of it. But yeah, when they say the whole internet, I mean yeah, it's these
currated data sets. You can't get this whole internet. That's that's just that's just a falsity.
But for our listeners, you can get it from Jack and I. We do have that file.
So if you're it's just it's just one large ZIP file.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's on pirate Bay. Check it out.
Yeah yeah, and we read it every morning to prepare for this show.
Just the whole thing to credit and downloaded.
Yeah. Uh, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. And we're back. So yeah, just in terms of juxtaposing, like what these companies are saying and the mainstream media is buying versus what is actually happening. So I was reminded of Sam Altman telling The New Yorker that he keeps like a bag with cyanide capsules ready to go in case of the AI apocalypse. So you know, he is an expert who gets billions of dollars richer if people think his technology is so powerful that he's
like freaked out by it. So, but that that's something that I don't know I've seen reprinted in like long articles about the danger of AI. And then there's this other like more real world trend where like you you talk about a Google engineer who admitted they're not going to use any large language model as part of their families healthcare journey.
Oh that was a Google That was a Google senior vice president, not a senior of Google VP. Greg Corrado is one of the heads of Google Health itself.
There is yeah, and there's also this story from your show has a fresh Health segment at the end where you talk about just saying examples headlines that.
Are just fresh.
Yeah, it's just fresh out.
It's new versions of.
Yeah.
The one about Duo Lingo from a recent episode where they're getting rid of human translators, firing them, cutting the workforce, replacing them with translation AI, even though the technology isn't there yet. But the point that you were making on the show is that they're willing to go forward with that because the user base won't notice the difference until they're in Spain and need to get to a hospital
and asking for the biblioteca. You know, like it's they are specifically an audience who is not going to know how bad the product that they're getting is because they're just like not in a in a position to know
that by the nature of the product. And so just this distinction between being hyped to the mainstream media and like these long read like New York or Atlantic articles as this is a future that we should be scared of because like it's going to become self aware and Sam Altman is freaked out, and then what it's actually doing, which is just making everything shittier around us, is I think a big kind of chunk that I took away from your show that was just like, oh, yeah, that
makes way more sense. That feels much more likely to be how this thing progresses.
Yeah, So the AI doumerism, which is when Altman says I've got my bug out bag and my sinanite capsules in case the robot apocalypse comes, or when Jeff Hinton, who's credited has a Turing Award for his work on the specific kind of computer program that's us see Gablo statistics that's behind these large language models. He's now concerned that it's on track to because I mean, smarter than us, and it's gonna like these piles of linear algebra are
not going to combust into consciousness. And anytime someone is like, you know, pointing to that boogeyman, what they're doing is they're basically hiding the actions of the people in the picture who are using it to do things like make a shitty language learning product because it's cheaper to do it that way than to pay the people with the actual expertise to do the translations.
Right, yeah, yeah, And it's just leading just to I mean, I like this kind of thought on this, I mean this kind of process. And Corey Doctor has got this kind of sister concept of AI with hype, which is in shitification, which I think that the Luistic Society America it was their their overall.
Yeah, American dialect Society Dialects, Yeah, picked it as the overall word of the year for twenty twenty three. But in shtification is something very specific, right, It's not just like we've now we're now swimming in AI extruded junk, right, AI and quotes as always, It's something more the company create a platform that you sort of get lured in because initially it's really useful for So this is like you think about how Amazon was great for finding products
sucked for your local brick and mortar businesses. But as a consumer it was super convenient because you could find things. But then the companies basically turn around and they extract all of the value that the customer is getting out of it, and then they turn around to the other parties. There are the people trying to sell things, and they
extract value out of them. So you start off with this thing that's initially quite useful and usable, and then it getsified in the name of making profits for the platform. And that's like the specific thing about in certification.
And I would say there's some kinds of processes you can think about indification, the kind of idea that you have to rush to a certain kind of market, that you have a monopoly on this kind of thing, And I guess yeah. I mean, the thing about large language models I think that we get we get on and talk a lot about, is that large language models are kind of born shitty with content. So it's not like the platform started and that platform monopoly led to this
kind of process of incertification. It's more like you decided to make a tool that is a really good word prediction machine, and you use it for a substitute for places in which people are meant to be speaking kind of with their own tone, with their own voice, with their own forms and their own putting, so they're on expertise and then and so it's kind of yeah, it's it's bored and shitty, and so you know this, this kind of thing I think is really helpful. It makes
me think of kind of a thing I think. I saw a few times on Twitter where people are like, well, if you're an expert in any of these fields and you read content by large language models, you actually know anything about this, you're going to know that it's absolute bullshit, right, you know, if you ask it to write you a short, you know, treatise on I don't know, sociological methodology, something specific that I know a little bit about, it's going
to be absolute bullshit, right, But good enough to computer engineers and you know, higher ups at these companies.
Yeah.
So here's an example. The other day, I came across an article that supposedly quoted me out of this publication from India called Bihar Praba, and I'm like, I never said those words. I could see how someone might think I would. And then I searched my emails, like no, I never corresponded with any journalist at this outfit. So
I wrote them, I said, fabricated quote. Please take it down in printer retraction, which they did, and they wrote back and said, oh yeah, that actually we prompted some large language models.
To create that before us and posted yes, because it seems like you might have and the large language models they don't like that. That's isn't that? What hallucinations are a lot of the time is just the large language model making up stuff it seems like is what the person wants them to say exactly.
But here's the whole thing. Every single thing output from a large language model has that property. It's just sometimes it seems.
To make sense. The whole thing is trying to do a trick of like predict I figured out what you wanted me to say, ha ha, But it's like, well, but what I wanted you to say is not always that's not how I want my questions answered that. That's actually a wildly flawed way of coming up like answering people. It's definitely something that I do in my day to day life because I'm scared of conflict and a people pleaser.
But that's not I'm not a good scientific instrument for that reason, you know, Like, but you.
Just got you just an avoidant attachment style, which as a as another avoidance.
They've just made me a scientific model that's terrible.
Like you, I can't believe this.
I was like, I don't know if you saw that headline where Tyler Perry was like, I was going to open an eight hundred million dollar studio, but I stopped the second I saw what Sora, this video generative AI could do, and I realized we're in trouble. Said quote, I had no idea until I saw recently the demonstrations of what it's able to do. It's shocking to me. And he's basically saying, He's like, you could make up a pilot and save millions of dollars. This is going
to have all kinds of ramifications. That feels like quite, that feels like half like just ignorance because this person's like, oh my god, look like total wow factor but also maybe hype. But I'm also curious from your perspective, what what are the actual dangers that we're facing that you know, because right now I think everything is just all about
these are the jobs it's going to take. I think in the l ll M episode where the LM predicted what that what the potential of llms were and the jobs that it could take in a very paper was Yeah, where it's like, huh, you know, like just sort of the unethical nature of how even these companies are doing research and creating data to support this.
Can we just stop? Can you just stop and explain exactly what the methodology of that paper was? No?
Please, I will. I will allow the experts to do it, because it's it's it's absolutely bonkers to hear because any person who's like been at any like tried to look at a study or something and you look at methodology like.
So methodology is a very kind term.
For what was. Yeah, truly truly, So, Alex.
Do you want to summarize real quick what was?
Then?
There was two different things we were looking at. It was something that came out of Open AI and something from Goldman Sachs and the Golden Sacks one was silly, but not as silly as the Open Eye one.
Yeah, I mean getting in the detail. And I went through this and I puzzle this paper. I like poked my friend as a labor sociologist, I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And you know, okay, so there's this kind of metric that you can use to judge how hard a task is that the government collects, and there's this kind of job classification. They rid him from you know, one to seven effectively. And so what Goldman Sachs said was, well, basically, anything from one to
four probably a machine can do. And you're like, okay, that's kind of silly. That's huge assumptions there. I understand though, as a researcher you have to make some assumptions when you don't have great data. But what Opening Eye did is that they asked two entities what like how well like what could be automated? They asked one other open AI employees, hey, what jobs do you think could be automated? Already hilarious because you know they're they're you know, pretty
doing those jobs. Yeah, they're not doing those doubts. They're pretty primed to think that their technology is great. And then they asked DPT for itself. They prompted and say, hey, can we automate these jobs? So you know, and so.
You'll never guess what the answer was.
You'll never guess. You'll never guess.
They took the output of that as if it were data, and then like you know, these ridiculous graphs and blah blah blah. It's just like the whole thing is is is fantasy.
Right, So is the danger there just sort of this reliance Like I guess, so if we're classifying the sort of threats to our sense of like how information is distributed or what is real or what is hype or whatever, or if they're they're actually taking jobs, what, what is something that I think people that people actually need to be aware of or to sort of prepare themselves for how this is going to disrupt things in a way that you know, isn't necessarily the end of the world,
but definitely changing things for the for the worst.
There's a whole bunch of things, and the one that I'm sort of most going on about these days is the threats to the information ecosystem, So I want to
talk about that. But there's also things like automated decision systems being used by governments to decide who gets social benefits and who gets them yanked right, things like doctor Joybul and WHINNI worked with a group of people in I want to say in New York City who were pushing back against having a face recognition system installed as their like entry system, So they were going to be continuously surveilled because the company who owned the house that
they lived in, or maybe it was I'm not sure if it was going.
To be apartment apartment complex, yes, yeah.
Yeah, wanted to basically use biometrics as a way to have them gain entry to their own homes where they lived. So there's dangerous of lots of lots of different kinds.
The one that's maybe closest to what we've been talking about though, is these dangerous to the information ecosystem where you now have the synthetic media, like that news article I was talking about before being posted as if it were real, without any watermarks, without anything that either a person can look at and say, I know that's fake, Like I knew because it was my name, and I knew I didn't say that thing, right, but somebody else
wouldn't have. And there's also not a machine readable watermarking in there, so you can just filter it out and this stuff goes and goes. So there was Oh a few months ago, someone posted a fake mushroom foraging guide that they had created using a large language model to Amazon as a self published book so that it's just
up there as a book. And coming back around to Sora, those videos like they look impressive at first glance, but then just like Alex was saying about the art having this sort of facile style to it, there's similar things going on in the videos, but still like it should be watermarked, it should be obvious that you're looking at
something fake. And what open ai has done is they've put this tiny, little faint thing down the lower right hand corner that looks like some sort of readout from a sensor going up and down, and then it swirls into the open ai logo and it's faint, and it's in the same spot that Twitter puts the button for turning the sound on and off. So it's hidden by that.
If you're seeing these things on Twitter, and it's completely opaque, right, if you are not in the know, if you don't know what open ai is, if you don't know that fake videos might exist, that doesn't tell you anything, right. So these are the things I'm worried about.
And the things I'm really worried about is, you know, these things doing a pretty terrible job at producing written content and videos and images. And so it's not that they could replace a human person, but it just takes a boss or a VP to think that it's good enough. Right, and then this replaces whole classes of occupation. So again
talking to Carl Ortiz, who's a concept artist. She's done work for Marvel and and DC and huge studios and Magic Togathering and you know, and she's basically saying, after mid journey stability, AI produces this incredibly crappy content. Jobs for concept artists have really dried up. They've gone and it's really hard. And I mean, especially for folks who are just breaking into the industry. You might just be trying to get there their you know, their work out
there for entry level jobs. They can't find anything right now. And so imagine what that's going to replace, what that's going to encroach on, right, I mean, that's kind of unique thing about kind of creative fields and coding fields and and and whatnot. And then I would say this, yeah, this this automated decision making kind of in government and hiring. I mean, those are those are you know, deathly you know, airfyed, right, And I mean this is already being deployed. I mean
at the US Mexico border. There's kind of massive. The Markup actually just put out this interview with David Moss, who's at the Electronic Freedom Foundation, No either the Electronic Freedom Refession. I think he's at the ACLU. I have to look this up, but it's about basically a survey of like surveillance technology that's not the southern border, and Dave Moss is at EFF. The Markdown Putt put a
published something about with him. It was like a virtual reality tour of servants technology or something wild like that.
I was gonna say. There's also things like shot Spotter, which reports to be able to detect what a gun has been fired. And this has been deployed by police departments all over the country, and there's you know, there's no transparency into how it was evaluatedor how it even works or why you should believe it works. And so what we have is a system that tells the cops that they're running into an active shooter situation, which is definitely a recipe for reducing police violence.
Right right, yeah, right, our tide Microsoft, Yeah, and that there is a reason an investigation that that showed that it's always almost always used in neighborhoods.
Yeah, communisic, the communities of color. Yeah, the Wired the Wired piece on that basically.
Yeah.
I think they said about what seventy percent of the census tracts something ridiculous like that.
Yeah, Yeah, it's absurd. And then there's things like EPIC, which is a healthcare electronic health records company, is partnering with Microsoft to push the synthetic text into so many different systems, so that you're going to get like reports in your patient records that were automatically generated and then supposedly checked by a doctor who doesn't have time to check it thoroughly, right, and they're going to be doing things like, you know, randomly putting information about BMI and
when it's not even relevant, or misgendering people over the place, or you know, this kind of stuff is going to hurt.
Yeah.
And I want to add to the issue of like entry level jobs drying up for people who do for example, illustration, doctor joybol and Winni points out that we're getting what's called an apprentice gap, where those positions where the easy stuff gets automated. And I don't think this is just in creative fields. But the positions where you're doing the easy stuff and you're learning how to master it and you are working alongside someone who's doing the harder stuff.
If that gets replaced by automation, then it becomes harder to train the people to do the stuff that requires expertise.
Right, Yeah, And it's easier to do in creative fields because there's such a just inability for executives to you know, like they don't know it. They've never known anything about like what what is quality creative work? So I feel like it's much easier for them to just be like, yeah, get rid of that, and well, yeah, like the way that we'll find out about that that isn't working is the quality of the creative output will be far worse.
Right, I mean what I mean, all those folks really tend to care about our you know, content and engagement metrics. You know, you can't actually have something that's kind of known for quality or creativity.
Right.
It does remind me a little bit about kind of you know, the first rebels against automation, the Luodites, and you know, the kind of the kind of way in which they did have this apprentice guilt system in which they trained for you know, a decade or so before they could you know, perhaps go ahead and open their own shop in a way that you know, those folks were replaced by these these water frames that were they called water frames because they were produced by hydraulic power.
But then uh, you know, effectively powered by unskilled people and by unskilled usually children doing incredibly dangerous work. But yeah, folks that have been training for this, the apprentices were incredibly steaming mad.
Yeah, and then we made their name a synonym for like.
Hater.
Yeah, there's been some nice efforts to reclaim them by Brian Merchant and yeah, some folks.
Yeah.
So just in the comparison to Crypto, it feels like the adoption here, the hype cycle here is more widespread than Crypto. Like with Crypto, there was that moment where we saw the person behind the curtain who was you know, the people that there was the fall of Crypto. With AI, I don't feel like there is any incentive for anyone to any of the stakeholders. I guess I got it involved to yeah, to just come out and be like, yeah,
it was bullshit. You know, there's just so much buy in across the board where I guess we've already talked about where you see this going, But is there Do you think there's any hope for this getting kind of found out, the truth catching on, or do you think it's just going to have to be one hundred years from now when somebody changes their mind about AI haters and it's like, actually they were onto something the way we are about light eites.
We're still trying. That's what we're up to with the podcast, right a lot of our other public scholarship. There was an interesting moment last week when chat gpt sort of glitched and was out putting sense. Yes, I mean it was it actually Spanglish or people just calling it because it had some Spanish in it.
It had some, It wasn't all I mean it was doing some spangless stuff. With this stuff is just even more inscrutable than usual. It was just completely nonsense.
Yeah, yeah, And that the sort of open eye statement about what went wrong basically described it for what it is. They had to like say something other than what they usually say. And then there was a whole thing with Google's image generator, which you know the so the baseline thing is super duper biased and like makes everybody look
like white people. And there's this wonderful thread on Medium, and here I'm doing the thing wre I can't think of a person's name, but it's a wonderful post on Medium where someone goes through this thread of pictures that I think we're initially on Reddit, where someone asked one of these generators to create warriors from different cultures taking a selfie and they're all doing the American selfie smile.
And so does this really uncanny Valley thing going on there where these people from all these different cultures are posing the way Americans pose, so huge bias in these things. Underlyingly, Google has some kind of a patch that basically whatever prompt you put in, they add some additional prompting to
make the people look diverse. And then last week or so someone figured out that if you asked it to show you a painting of Nazi soldiers, they're not all white because of this patch, right right, So yeah, So Google's backpedaling of that I think was ridiculous. There was some statement in there about how they certainly don't intend for their system to put out historically inaccurate images. I'm like, what the hell, it's a fake image, like there's no
accuracy there, no matter what. These mishaps maybe sort of pulled back the curtain for a broader group of people. There's some true believers out there who are not going to be reached. Sure, but I think it may have helped for some slice of society.
Yeah, I know some people who are like, how do we know that Reinhardt Heydrich didn't have dreadlocks? Clear?
Wow?
But okay, sure, go off.
Yeah, And I mean I think it's this is such an interesting question, right, is like where does when is the AI bubble going to pop?
Right?
And I mean, in some ways it feels like, you know, we're where, I mean, as much as we can do. We're kind of prodding it, right, you know, and seeing you know. And one thing that I off handedly said one one time and Emily loves is ridicule as praxis. So yeah, one thing you know, and I will in a turn of one of Emily's great quotes, is you know, oh gosh, I'm going to mess it up right now. It's I and I. It's it's the refuse to be impressed. Uh oh yeah, resist, the urge to be resist? Is
this year to be impressed. It's much it's much better when when when she says it, and it's and it's and it's kind of the idea of like some of it is a bit of the sheene right, But it feels like at some point, you know, if in the kind of operations of these things, you know enough, there'll be enough buy in, especially with automation, that's hard to reverse a lot of the automation without just a huge fight.
And so I mean, I think something that helps our you know, worker led efforts, you know, and one of the most awesome things that we've seen this is something a scholar, Blair a tear Frost, calls AI counter governance, she calls and one example she is is the w GA strike and how folks struck for one hundred and forty eight days and after strike they not only got a bunch of new kinds of guarantees for minimum pay when it came to streaming and the residuals they get
for it, they also, you know, have to basically be informed if any AI is being used in the writer's room. They can't they can't be forced to edit or re edit or rewrite AI generated content. They have to be everything has to be basically above board. I mean, isn't as far as it could have gone and banned it out right right, But if there's any use of it has to be disclosed and you can't bring in these tools to hold you know, whole cloth to place the writer's room.
Yeah. Well, Alex and Emily, it has been such a pleasure having you on the show. I feel like you could keep talking about this hours for days. But thank you so much for coming on. And yeah, I would love to have you back. Where can people find you? Follow you here? Your podcast all that good stuff.
Yeah, so the podcast is called Mystery AI Hype Theater three thousand. Then you can find it anywhere find podcasts are streamed, but also on peer two if you prefer that kind of content as video. So we start off this Twitch and then show up that way. I'm on all the socials. I tend to be Emily M. Bender so Twitter or blue sky on Macedon. I'm Emily M. Bender at what are we dare institute that social and I'm very findable on the web, very googleable at the
University of Washington. How about you, Alex?
Yeah, and if you want to chech catch the twitch stream. It's Twitch, dot tv, slash dare, undiscore Institute, usually on Mondays, usually this time slot. So next week we'll be here. Wait, I forget, we'll be here eventually.
Yes, today's to today's Tuesday though in.
That's right, that's right, Yeah, it's actually not so Mondays. Check us out. You can catch me at Twitter and Blue Sky Alex Hannah no h at the end. And then yeah, our mast on server, dare, hyphencommunity, dot social, what else? I think those are all the socials we have?
Yeah, amazing. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?
So I am super excited about doctor Joeyblamuni's book Unmasking AI, came out last Halloween. It is a beautiful sort of combination memoir slash introduction into the world of how so called AI works, how policymaking is done around it, how activism is done around it. And I actually got to interview her here in Seattle at the University of Washington last week, which was amazing.
Nice. How about you, Alex?
Yeah, I'd recommend the podcast Worlds Beyond Number and it is a Dungeons and Dragons live play, actual play podcast that is put Together by Brendan Lee Mulligan, Abria Engar, Lou Wilson, and Erica is talking about writing that is not generated by AI, but generated by some very talented improv comedians and storytellers themselves.
Acale, How do you scale?
Oh my god, it is actually surprisingly I mean that podcast is actually I think the single most funded thing on Patreon. Birth a bunch of records for it. I had about forty thousand subscribers. People want good content, Yeah, I'm humans high art, you know. People want this vibrant storytelling, amazing creation, you know, and so the more we can we can plug that stuff the better.
By the way, you can also find Mystery AI Hype Theater three thousand. Like where podcasts are? So in case you don't do Twitch. Yeah, like I was listening you know, Spotify or whatever.
You weren't on Twitch.
I wasn't on Twitch this weekend. I was taking it. I was taking a break. You know. It's just like too much, too much Twitch.
Couldn't get a hyperion.
That's right? Okay, all right, Miles, where can people find you? What's working media you've been enjoying.
At the at base platforms at Miles of Gray also if you like the NBA, you can hear Jack and I just go on and on about that on our other podcast, Miles and Jack Got Mad Moosties. And if you like trash reality TV like me, I like I comfort myself with it, check me out on four to twenty Day Fiance where we talk about ninety day Fiance tweet. I like, this is just kind of it's a historical day. I would have to say for the Internet. We missed
an anniversary on Sunday. Apparently the very famous clip of Peter Weber, the bowler who won and came out with the iconic phrase who do you think you are? I Am? That had its twelfth anniversary and I just will to play that audio day because it's one of our favorites. Here we go, are you?
Who are all?
Right? Who do you think you are? Who do you?
Oh?
Man?
The whole thing is good. Also, the run up to that is great. That's right. I did it.
I did it?
God damn it?
What I yeah? I play an amateur sport. And just like the exhilaration you get and you just say anything.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
That's I love that clip.
I respect I think you are? I It's like yeah, you've you're you've glory fried your brain circuits and now that's what you're saying. And the other one from at the Dark Prowler. It's a screenshot of an Uber notification on the phone. It says, young Stroker, the body Snatcher will be joining you along your route. You're still on schedule to arrive by seven fifty four.
Okay, by the way, chicken nuggets glory fried. Thanks, Yeah, that'd be great. Oh yeah you Oh tweet I've been enjoying. Caitlyn at Kitlyn at Kate Holes tweeted overnight oats sounds like the name of a race horse who's sucks. That was an old one that was apparently September twenty fifth, twenty twenty two.
Good one, Go banger.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. We're at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page on a website Daily zeikegeist dot com where you post our episode and our footnote. We link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles is there a song that you think people might enjoy.
This is just a nice little instrumental clip, not clip, a full on track from a London based producer goes by Vegan veg y N and the track is called a Dream goes On Forever and it's a super dreamy track. It's just kind of an interesting production. So maybe you know, maybe you know, just check out some mid journey you know images, some sore AI videos and just blast this in your headphones. Just kind of go on for a dream, goes for.
The music and leave the synthetic media.
Just fully embraced into the music, close your eyes and actually the mid journey images that your brain will produce. I've found that like at night when I sleep, sometimes my brain produces Sora images.
This is like you sound like you sound like a youth pastor talking to kids about God. Or it's like you know where it's really the AI is actually up in here kids?
Yeah, want to get.
Yeah yeah yeah. The real training data we had is the word of.
God, exactly exactly what I need.
The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of by Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio ap Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, that it is going to do it for us this morning. We are back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we'll talk to you all then.
Bye bye,