Well, well, well we're back breaking down NBA win totals, baby, and you asked for it. Uh, you got it. We're doing the Southeast Division today. Uh, eagerly anticipated Southeast Division. That's right. You're gonna get to hear about the Wizards. You're going to get to hear about the Hornets with Leacher, reports NBA writer Dampa Valley on today's episode.
I'm Jack O'Brien and I no, no, I'm producer.
Yeah, that's right. We got to producer Jabbari in the house on this week's episode.
Of Sorry got it, look a hitch. Okay, you be driving Spinny number eighteen. That's good.
Secures suck NBA champions.
Dan for Valley in the house, not in the valley on Long Island. How are you doing? I am doing wonderful. How are you doing? Good man? We're thrilled to have you here. The wind totals are up. I'm puzzled by a couple of the picks that we've got here. So we're we're gonna we're gonna get into it. But first we got to talk about Shaq V Go Bear because
there is so Shack did a complex interview. Uh, like with the with the outlet complex, not like the interview was complicated with somebody who I was like, who is this future looking fellow? And Jabbari in for me it is shack Son and was asked who is the worst all time NBA player of all time? And his answer was Jabbari, Rudy Gobert, good Shack Twitch his son said he's worse than Ben Simmons. Uh Twitch Shack said he's a bum two. But interestingly, he then went on to
be like talking. He said, like the reason I walk weird. If you've seen his toes, you understand that there's a very good reason that he walks in a way that looks very uncomfortable. Kitty said he can't turn his head around like like he's in the original Timbert and Batman suit because he played for his one twenty and Rudy Gobert he mentioned, uh has two fifty is not playing for his two fifty. I just thought it was revealing that he knew he had both those numbers top of mind.
I don't know what what do we think is? Is this just you know it? I guess I don't know. I don't need to know, like a read on it. It's just funny to see how competitive these guys are.
Exactly, you know, the funniest thing about guys like Shaq, Guys like magic, guys that make you feel good, you know what I mean, because they're smiling, they're charismatic and all of that. But sometimes we forget even you know, even twenty years after their career, ten twenty years after their career, there's still that type of cutthroat, you.
Know, competitor.
And while yes, I do, you know, and Dan, you know, if you want to chime in here and you'll feel free. While yes, I do think that Shaq means it, I also recognize his commitment to the bit because he did this, you know, throughout Dwight Howard's entire career, and you know, being plenty of other bigs you know, you know that that have followed. But basically, it really does feel like it's a it's a bit for me. I don't know if you think otherwise.
As a as a colleague of the company that employed I am Team Shack. No, honestly, I don't understand it. Actually, I get if this was a player who was like kind of a star and didn't make a ton of money, but Shaq was a megastar.
He still has.
I see him on like any live sporting event. He's in like three to five commercials for different brands.
So I don't, I don't. I guess it could be a bit.
I just don't understand what he at this point gets out of it. And I will say, whish he brought the same energy when he was playing, because I think if you have some of his teammates, they probably would have said, like, well, why Shaq like show so out of shape? Like Kobe was probably pretty big on that
at one point too. So I get he can't turn and stuff, but could he have been in better shape when he was playing and maybe he would be able to turn his head now I've also made all those you know, all star appearances, making the Hall of Fame.
I love Shaq. He's a great character.
I just don't understand like what he gets out of this personally other than looking hashtag petty.
Yeah, you know, one hundred and twenty million dollars seems like a lot of money to us. To someone with one hundred and twenty million dollars, do you know what seems like a lot of money? Two hundred and fifty million dollars, so I think he Yeah, it's just weird competitiveness that like it's always revealed, like when you hear the behind the scenes stories about these great players, like that seems to be the thing that can't be missing
from their DNA. They have to be competitive in a way that feels like petty, right, it feels like huh man, that must be uncomfortable to be inside your head. You know.
Do you guys think Shaq would be as revered if he played in the social media era?
I feel like people would hate him.
Well, yeah, I think it's tough because I think his behavior in some of the antics would have he would have adjusted them, you know what I mean, It wouldn't be the exact same. But yeah, if if if a lot of the old school players had to deal with social media, had to deal with the fact that, you know, someone could just you know, have a camera on you twenty four to seven, no matter where you are, we would have a different you know about.
I think Shaq would have been even more famous and beloved. Assuming the game was the same as it was in his Like, if we're just taking the game as it was when he played and adding social media, I think he becomes even more popular and famous because he's somebody who happens to have all those things that make you
a good basketball player. Uh. And then also just like he was just going around doing like the sorts of viral stunts that you see on YouTube, like before people were putting it on, before there were cameras present, Like you know, there's all those stories about him just like buying people's like groceries for them, buying like all these things. And again, like before it was a viral stunt that
you did on YouTube. So I just feel like he was made for Like I feel like he might be the person that, in my opinion, would have like gone up the most in people's estimation due to social media. But it sounds like you think the opposite.
Yeah, I think he would be viewed like a Draymond Green, and just based off the way. I think it's cool that he's done a lot of charitable stuff, but he also talks about it a lot, which I feel like might defeat a purpose a little bit.
So dance got shack smoke.
I'm sorry, but well, the other thing you think people would let in the social media ef the game was played the same way he would have retired early because he would have been bullied because of his free throw shooting. There's just like that wouldn't have you know, kind of skated as much of it through his career. So I just I'm not even like a mega Rudy Gobert fan. I just find this entire his entire stick to me
at points just gets super ridiculous. So, but Rudy Gobert's boxing now, so hopefully we'll get the clever match there you go.
Oh, just don't get webbing Yama boxing. That would be like he don't even have to leave the Yeah, it would be dwthon. It would be he wouldn't even have to leave the corner. It would just be stick just whooping people from from his corner. Well, I'd be afraid he gets snapped in half.
I mean she's there's that.
Yeah, he's bendy. It would be like watching giraffes fight, you know their neck. Yeah, have you seen girafts fight where they're whipping with their neck? That is wild? Yeah, you gotta check. Is Jack like a member of some girafte fight club that I don't know about it?
We don't talk about that.
Uh, just happened to have the clip right here that I will just send to you unmarked file.
Uh winby versus chat in the post.
That's right, all right. Another thing, another little off season story. The NBA's board has expanded the coaches review rules, permitting officials to retroactively call a foul if one takes place on a play that's being reviewed because the ball went out of bounce is essentially what it is. And I think, based on my extensive legal education, this feels like you're reading a legal document, but it seems like it's basically the foul has to have led to the ball going out of bounds, right, yeah.
Yeah, Look, I basically think everybody's gonna love it until you know it's used against your team, But if it's used in favor of it's like, good, the right hole was made.
I feel like people already hate it based off the response that they're like, oh, more replays, that's what the game needs to be slowed down.
I'm a fan of.
Just because I hate the revisionists where people are like, oh, this one play change the entire outcome of the game, when that's not really how it works.
So I like the idea of getting it correct.
I do wish they could figure out a way they have that, like you know, superstation in Secaucus, Like why do the referees need to stop the game for something? Like I feel like we could review even more things in real time and it could just be quicker. And I'm just surprised that we haven't made that transition yet. So if people want to complain about how their team loses,
they should be a fan of these rule expansions. But I do understand the people who are taking issue with, oh, is this going to slow down the pace of play at all?
Well, but I mean, we know how this goes.
Those are the same people or you know, a large percentage over the same people. If it's not gotten right, you know they'll complain about that as well. We complain, That's what we do.
My only complaint with this is that, like they're saying that the call can only be reversed based on like the time elapsed between the uncalled foul and the out of bounds violation under review, So like the foul has to have happened like right before the ball went out of bounds. Essentially, I think they should be reviewing all the way back, just like it should be actual like, yeah, game is fifteen seconds in, there's a call, you put it in review, and that fifteen second review takes forty
five minutes for them. It's like chess. It goes to the pace of chess. I think then people, people, and I would be satisfied. Hey, call me weird. All right, let let's take a quick break and we're going to come back and talk about the magic. We're going to talk about the heat and some big some people that Vegas thinks are gonna take a big leap this year that I can't figure out necessarily why we'll be right back and we're back. Should we just take it in
the order that Vegas thinks the Southeast Division is gonna go. Actually, before we get to the Southeast Division. I know, listeners, I don't want to do it to you because you're all saying I don't care about the rest of the NBA, just give me the Southeast Division wind totals. But Dan, I am curious. You have looked at all the wind total projected wind totals for this year. Are there any that jump out to you, as you know, are particularly
good bet one way or the other? Yeah, I mean, I think there's been a couple.
The one that kind of stands out to me and it feels like a very easy over is Oklahoma City six and a half. Yeah, this is a team that I feel like they win fewer than sixty three, sixty five games, I'll be pretty shocked.
They're so deep there.
Wow, they're gonna care about winning in the regular season again, like Jalen Williams is gonna get better, Chet Homer is gonna get better. They added Alex prusso Isaya Hartnstein gives them an element if you want to face the Timberwolves, to go up against the Nuggets with Jokich, he'll help there. So I understand people's skepticism in the vein of well,
how will they look in the postseason? Sure, but like during the regular season, this team wins fewer than I'll like sixty games, I'll be pretty full like all of their team will have been abducted by aliens or something at that point.
Like this is to me very clearly a sixty plus win team. So they came in first last year and won in the Western Conference and won fifty seven games.
They are being projected to come in first again in the Western Conference and win fifty six point five that this kind of goes, this kind of ties into my overall the I guess a thing that I'm noting in these Vegas over unders is that the teams that had a lot of wins last year, they're just every and those teams that had a lot of losses last year, they're just expecting everybody to like kind of get a
little bit closer to the middle. So like, you know, Boston, who seems like they're going to be just like, I don't know why they would be worse other than porzingis, you know, sixty four last year, they're being expected to drop five games this this year. But like as we'll get to some of the teams at the bottom are being expected to come up like twelve games where their
roster kind of looks fairly similar. So yeah, with okay See, even though it feels like they got better, it just feels like they're like, yeah, but they're still not going to be like so good. Somebody's gonna have to like lose some of these games. Feels like where it's coming from, I don't know, but yeah, I agree with that. It feels like, okay See, could could get to sixty pretty easily. Thirty six and a half for the Spurs feels high too.
I love Wemby and I believe he could do whatever, but they didn't like they added Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes. How many extra wins is that with some improvement for Wemby is that this team still has no shooting and the offense could still be rough for patches. So I think the I think the people who they're going to challenge for like the sixth spot or even get into the plane. It's just like, have we looked like everyone put the.
Jazz and the Blazers are actively trying to win, and so I thought, you know, the Spurs feel like they should be more around like the thirty two thirty three.
So I love Wemby. That was an easy under for me. Yeah, the West is that that was we covered one of the western divisions, the Pacific last week, and that was kind of my refrain in that is like someone's gonna have to lose games. Not in this in the West, you know, not everybody's gonna can like go up and wins, and yeah, San Antonio going up by fourteen wins just feels Yeah, it's like kind of the sexy pick and probably like a lot of public money on that prediction.
But yeah, we'll get to the Eastern Conference equivalent in this very section. But up first, we're just going in descending order of the Southeast Division. We got the Magic being predicted to come in at forty seven and a half wins per draft Kings. They've added KCP, which is seems like exactly what they needed. They needed some shooting,
Corey Joseph. They drafted rookie Tristan da Silva part of ways with Markel Foltz and Joe Ingalls the clown prince of the NBA himself, while resigning and extending all their core players Franz and Paolo all Right, KCP, like this is the move everybody wanted them to make. I personally like it feels like a good move, but it's also I feel like it's being treated like they added a number two guy who can shoot, as opposed to just like you know, somebody who's a good piece who can shoot.
You know, Like it's not like KCP. Is this like gravitational force, who's going to like change the spacing on the court. I mean maybe he is, but yeah, I don't know, what are you guys' thoughts on this win total forty seven and a half after last year winning forty seven, So it's basically exactly the same. It feels it feels too high.
I like the KCP signing, but I liked it a lot more when I thought that wasn't going to be their entire offseason. Basically, yeah, and this is someone they needed, a shot maker who could work off the dribble and stretch the floor, and they don't get that in KCP. They don't get that at all. Even if you think Jet Howard is going to get some minutes and give
them some motion shooting element. When we watched them play in the half court last year, PLO and Franz will just keep running into bodies and defenses are not going to respect this offense still and KCP is good, but a lot of stuff he didn't I it was inside the arc from his off ball movement. He's not gonna have that same wiggle room on the offensive end here. So barring just another demonstrative leap from their top three players, which I guess is possible, but you know you mentioned
Franz shot under thirty percent from three last year. Because outside efficiency has declined year over years since he came in the league. So I think this is a really good team when you factor in that, I don't think their offense is going to be good enough yet with at least you know, a couple of.
These teams need to be healthier.
Miami Cleveland and like maybe Joel E and B doesn't miss more than half the season, and so it's like the wins and then Indiana getting a full year of Pascal Siakam with them after going through a training camp. I think the East top end talent is definitely inferior to the West, but like that middle class, I feel like there's gonna be fewer wins up for great to go. Yeah, so I just forty seven and a half, So that's forty eight if you want to go over. It's not
a huge jump from where they were last year. But I think that they could theoretically maybe be a little bit better of a team but win just as many, if not fewer games.
Where do you think they're in the middle ground?
And the reason why I asked is because I've seen people saying that they could jump into that top three and be one of the you know, one of the you know strongholds in the Eastern Conference.
Do you think they You know, obviously you're not.
You're not as KCP piled as as I am, admittedly, but you just feel like they, you know, there wasn't enough improvement.
My whole thing what's frustrating about them is that they could have done a myriad of different things and I just would have said, yeah, top three is possibly, like it didn't need to be. Oh, they traded for LaMelo Ball, it could have been Anthony Simon's, it could have been Malcolm Brogden. You could have gone up and down the spectrum. You just needed like a little bit of an upgrade in that department, and you kind of.
Got someone who he helps you.
But KCP is more of a luxury than a necessity to this team, where it's Wow, Jalen sugs and him is your defensive back forth. That's incredible. You already had the second best defense in the league. And so I'm coming at it from that perspective. I think we would need to look back and be like, oh, like Bronz Wagner and power being Ker all of a sudden just started hitting a bunch of off the dribble threes this year.
For their offense, Yeah, have measurably improved. I mean Franz Vogue Nah went from shooting thirty five rookie thirty five percent from three rookie thirty six percent second year and then twenty eight last year. So I guess the whole like win total for me kind of hinges on, like was that an aberration or was the first two years
in aberration? And then the other question, of course is like Pallo is going into his third season, right that that's usually around the time people who are really good, as a lot of people think he is continue to just like take leaps, and like between second and third season is when we've seen a lot of our biggest leaps from some of our best players. So like that's I'm kind of a slight over on this one because
I because I think Pallo takes takes a leap. I think Franz is at least on the first second year side of twenty eight percent, Like I think he's probably low thirties. This is based totally on the fact that they got rid of Markel Foults and he was messing up his shooting via osmosis, and now that he's gone,
Franz Will. It's so weird that, like there's so many every time Falts not only did he just like suddenly forget how to shoot, but then like he came on to a seventy six ers team and like Ben Simmons, like was never a good shooter, but like that suddenly became a thing where like he was just completely in his head about not being able to shoot free throws. And then Falts goes down to Orlando and then suddenly, like somebody down there like forgets how to shoot completely.
I do think it is contagious, and that getting rid of him was probably a good move personally. So almost light over there based on completely absurd reasons. Jabari anything to add there.
I am a slight over his way, so based on just as equally as absurd reasons. Again, like I I like the KCP addition a little bit more than you guys, And I'm not saying that you're wrong in any way.
In fact, you're in all likelihood the person.
That's going to be, you know, most right out of this is either you know or is going to be one of you two. But I can see the scene winning forty eight forty nine games, I think regular season they're actually Okay, I still worry, you know, for a lot of those same reasons, Dan, I still worry about them in a postseason situation.
That's a good point too. This could be like the Classic.
They really beat you in the regular season, but they're kind of a paper tiger in the playoffs.
And also they could make a trade. It just kind of inflates their offense. Yeah, just get some shooting, Yeah, some more shooting. Actually, yeah, yeah, I will say KCP also prior to this played on two teams that had the best passers in maybe two of the best passes in the history of the game, with Lebron and the Joker. So you're saying they need to resign Markel Folt still actually need another great slash who can Yeah, exactly, all right. Moving on to the Heat, they are being projected at
forty four and a half wins. I don't think it's gonna be forty four and a half. I think it'll definitely be a whole number of wins. But last year they were at forty six. The biggest changes and this is never how you want to kick off. The Biggest Changes section of the doc added Alec Burks and a Ton of rookie talent via the draft and free agency, re signed or extended Bam, Thomas Bryant, Kevin Love, Haywood high Smith who I love. And then there's the Jimmy
of it all. Reportedly once another MAX deal. He is thirty four, hasn't played in more than sixty four regular season games since I don't think this is right, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. Is that right?
I think that's right. I looked up.
I mean probably you have the two like shortened seasons that were seventy two games. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. Actually didn't play in the postseason last spring. Now reportedly interested in playing for the Nets if unable to extend with the heat.
That one blew my mind.
What really they should wave him if he really wants to play for the Nets, Just like that's like use a better teams, Like I would d him to go sign.
It with the Knicks. Yeah, we would definitely take you on the seventy six ers, Jimmy Butler. But the Nets is such an like why it seems probably like a gambit, Like he's like, well, I'll go to this place that has like an even bigger market. Than Miami. Uh, it feels like a gambit that would not work with pat Riley.
I don't Yeah, you know, Riles is the last guy you want to play that game with. I'm sorry, and I got I'm not even buying into the folklore of it, like, but just based on how he is negotiating now he has worked over the last thirty to forty years, I don't think Riles is gonna even blink at this.
By the way, the Nets are predicted to win nineteen and a half games this year. Last year they won thirty two, so they're being projected to be they have the dead last lowest win total in the entire NBA based on you know, Vegas predictions. So maybe he's like a Cooper Flag fan. Is that what he loves? Like flag?
Long game?
So anyways, forty four and a half wins they won forty six last year. I don't know why they would be much different other than just the middle class getting better, which seems like a good enough reason to me. So I'm probably right in there on this one. This feels about right.
Yeah, I don't like this team particularly, but they as you mentioned, they won forty six while dealing with a whole bunch of injuries ye last year. And even if we assume that Tyler hero On Jimmy Butler miss time like they always do, you have to assume like Terry Roziero will be healthier.
Losing Kayleb Martin hurts. But I like Jack, I really like Haywood high Smith.
If Jim Hawkes gets better, so and they should be really good defensively.
And if Bam.
Continues to shoot threes like he kind of was with Team USA, and the line is different obviously for FIBA, maybe their offensive ceiling is a little bit higher. That's that's my biggest question with them is they've been bottom ten in offense the past two years. They play so freaking slow, So can they speed it up? Can they
get some rim pressure? But I'm inclined to go over, but I will admit this is the team I think, more than any other team in the NBA that I have such a bad feel for, like what their floor and ceiling is.
Yeah, I think we all do, because the reality is you look at it on paper and it's like, okay, I could see this or that, and then they come out and they just grind their way to forty six forty seven wins. Yeah, I'll take deal over there as well.
It's just injury based basically, and who knows how everybody's going to hold up or like how many games everybody going to want to play, and whether they're just gonna try and grind it out in the postseason as an eight seed like they seem to. They're like, that's where we want. It's just thinking that we're bad. Okay. Up next, we have the Hawks, who got rid of Dejonte basically everything else. Intact, their coach is still the bad guy from Karate Kid three. They won thirty six last year.
Vegas has him at thirty three and a half. I don't know, I don't mind me over here. For some reason, I feel like, you know, the Dejonte experiment with Trey didn't work. Bogged On is maybe the person who like brings a little Olympic fairy dust back with him. He was pretty awesome, seemed to be feeling himself a little bit. And I don't know, i've seen Trey. This is probably just like traumatized seventy six ers fan in me, like from years ago where he just destroyed us. But he
just he does have a ceiling that. I don't understand why he doesn't get too more often, and maybe just like letting Trey Cook will lead to a higher win total. It feels like a couple of years ago they were expected to win like fifty games and then that never materialized, and now we're just off them, probably for good reason, but I can't quit them. I'm going slide over for the Atlanta Hawks, what do you guys think?
I mean, they don't have their first round pick for the next three years, so they have an incentive to win, which is why be inclined to go over. I do just worry they're gonna be reliant on at least like two really young players in Dyson Daniels and Zachary Resische, and just the learning curve there. I wonder, like, Okay, how does that look Dyson Daniels great defender if he's on offense. Zachary Resiche is not like elite at any one thing. But are you going to ask him to
check elite wings? What does he look like on offense against NBA length and speed? H So, I just the offensive ceiling here does feel really high. I just I still worry about their defense because they don't have a two way wing like DeAndre Hunters probably the closest state come and that's, you know, if you really stretch the definition of of two way. So it wouldn't shock me if they were like a thirty one to thirty two
win team. But I think what will help help them is they're you know, unless something just happens with Trey and he demands out or something, they're not going to be a team that trades out of winning games by season's end because they have no incentive to do so, right, And.
That's exactly where I was going to just quickly ask you. You know, it feels like, you know, we've heard the trade young rumors better part of the last two or three years, you know, honestly, like right after his rookie year. It feels like, you know, we've been hearing it since then. You know, why do you think his name is always on the trade market? And you know what would that market actually look like for him?
So I think his name's always in the trade market because based off everything we know is that he has to be incredibly difficult to deal with. He also plays a very like grading style on his teammates because he has the ball so much and if you're Luka Doncic, that's fine, but we kind of know now that, like, not everyone wants to play with that.
Not everyone wanted to.
Play with Pete James Harden and those guys, it's tough for them to adjust. I actually think of the three, Luca's probably done the best job adjusting his game, Like he played a lot faster last year. So until Trey's want to play off the ball a little bit more, it becomes harder to build your team around him, especially when you consider I know, Hawks fans really into like, oh, he's been trying for like a season and a half on defense, it really doesn't matter when you watch because
he's just so small. So I think that's a big reason, and I really honestly do believe he would have been traded already if that sentiment wasn't held around the league as well, because like, if you're the Hawks, look at what the Nets got for Michale Bridges, who has never made an All Star team, probably needs to be the
third option on a championship team. There's a real chance, if not a guarantee, that if you traded Trey Young right now, he nets you substantially less than that and how do you win that press conference when you already traded away your first round picks? And so I do believe, just like I believe the Nets would have traded machal Bridges even if they never made that Rockets trade, if there was an offer in line with something like that, I believe the Hawks would have traded Drey Young already.
Yeah, that's fair. I think my favorite part of that is you mentioned him playing off ball.
If I'm not mistaken, I feel like when they got de Jonte, there was like the Hawks team account put out a clip of Trey Young playing off ball like in two possessions over the course of his career and staying like and they said he couldn't play off ball. If I'm not mistaken, that day take place, I'm gonna I'm going to pray that into existence.
If it didn't, I hope it did. But I was in the bag for that pairing, by the way, So I was just for.
I look at Trey and I don't actually see a reason, Like when I look at Harden and he's done some adjusting with the Clippers some but like when I look at Harden, I don't see someone who's like, Okay, if you want to throw the ball on the post or have them screen. Like I look at Trey and see someone who should be able to fly around off the ball, set pin downs for him, shots that way. And I don't know if he doesn't want to do it or
if they just haven't tried it enough. But you know, people were thrown up in arms because like his his like catching shoot frequency that accounted for his possessions went up by like two percent or something year of the year. It's like that's not enough to be considered. Oh, I can play with another ball dominant type playmaker. So I do believe he could play that way. I just I guess at this point we just have to default to
he doesn't want to. I'd like, I don't know what the other year right there would be.
All right, these are the two that I found a little bit confounding. I'm curious to get your read on this. We got the Hornets who last year won twenty one games. They went twenty one and sixty one. This year they're being predicted to win thirty three and a half, gaining twelve wins. Their biggest changes they added Alex sar Keishaan George and uh the bub Carrington via the draft, A cool name traded for Josh Green, signed Taj Gibson. Is that toadj the same touch Gibson who's been the league
the past forty five years? Chiantae Johnson, Musa diabate re signed Miles Bridges and Seth Curry. I don't know. This is one of the biggest risers in the projected win totals this season, and I can't quite figure out why, Like, is it because LaMelo is gonna come back and be like a big win wins above replacement? Guy? Jabari and I were kind of talking about this before we started recording, and Jabari looked into it. I guess three years ago, LaMelo was healthy and played in seventy five games and
they won forty three. So is this a situation where people are still remembering that and think, God, you know, one of these years is gonna be healthy and then that's that's when we're all in big, big trouble. Or is it just like, what, why would they go from twenty one ones to thirty three and a half? That's it?
So I was looking at a fand and they have the Hornets at twenty nine and a half. That's like a pretty big difference between market.
Yeah. Yeah, and there is like some variants. Yeah, that's DraftKings.
On our end, I'd probably still take the over on thirty three and a half for the reasons you just outlined with if Wamelo's do for a healthy season, and I do think he's a very valuable player. I also think they have sneaky depth on this roster, Like Brandon Miller was really good on defense last year and he already kind of had the pull up MIDI going, so I think he's someone who will get better. If Mark
Williams is healthy, that's someone who is pretty good. Miles Bridges is super useful if he's going to be able to stay on the court. And they have some interesting backups where okay, or secondary guys where if they're healthy, you know, with Josh Green, I'm a big fan Cody Martin's like before there was Caleb Martin, Like everyone was up in arms in Cody Martin. That's why he's still in Charlotte and Caleb isn't, so I don't. I'd be curious to see if this could be a team though,
and maybe that accounts for the variants. Are they trying to bake in like, well, are they a team that's going to trade out of winning? Because that's what I can't figure out. Their new regime, the ownership in front office. They've done everything through like a real long term lens, especially when you look at last year's trade then line.
And so if the Hornets were on pace to win like thirty five games in January mid January, early February, what's to stop them from like, oh, like LaMelo has some injuries to made up body parts and oh look we traded yeah Josh Green, or we traded Miles Bridges. So there's definitely combustibility there. But if you told me LaMelo is gonna play in sixty or more games, I think I would take the over here.
Okay, yeah, that's fair.
So you you know, if that were to take place, you basically have them as taking the biggest leap like out across the league.
Yeah, I mean, what did they win last year? They were at twenty one twenty one? Yeah, I think that's fair.
Like there, it would not shock me if they had good health, Like I don't know if they're a five hundred team, but they seem like a thirty seven to forty win team. Maybe to be fair, I tend to be way higher than consensus on LaMelo. Like I think he could be like a second team All NBA player next season if he's healthy. I just think he is so transcendent on the offensive end, and so if he's going to be on the court, I think they're gonna win basketball games.
Is that, like, do the metrics back? Is he like a big metrics guy? I actually don't know. He's like a big I love watching this guy. I love like anytime that there is a LaMelo highlight on my Twitter feed, I am slowing down to check it out. Is he also like a big wins above replacement guy? He is?
Like so when you do like the breakdowns, like offensively, yes, but sometimes like there are points where it feels like he gives back statistically, like just as much on the defensive end, but offensively, like just when you look at the assist totals, the scoring, the usage, he is like a I don't know if I would call him a stats like an advanced metrics darling offensively, but like he's pretty close to it, Like those catchalls tend to love him on the offensive end, all right.
And finally, we've got to the team that everybody's waiting for us to talk about, and that is, of course, the Washington Wizards, who added Sadik Bay, Malcolm Brogden via trade, Jonas Valadchunis sign in trade. They removed the interim label from coach Keith and made him the organization's twenty sixth head coach of all time. They're expected to go up seven wins. So after winning fifteen last year. Yeah, they won fifteen last year, they're being projected to win twenty
two and a half. On Draft Gangs or no on MGM, I don't know. This is another one where I'm like, yeah, I could see I mean this one. This is another one that feels more like it's just like a reversion to the mean, right, Like it's like they were so bad last year, things went so badly for them, Like, for instance, we were not talking about them in this episode.
But just as another illustration, they're expecting Detroit to win ten more games this year than last year because it's just hard to lose as many games as Detroit that last year. So maybe it feels like that there's a lot of that going around maybe, But what what do you guys read on how the Wizards will be.
They will finish under I think the front office will make sure that, like we will see Alex are play point guard or something wild if they're on pace to win more than those games. And I think, look, Malcolm Rockden Good, Kyle Kuzma is good. At least one of those dudes is getting traded. Yonna Salentunis was signed to
be traded. It really seemed like, Uh, I know that in the new Lottery odds era, it's more about being a bottom four team rather than trying to have the worst record, but this doesn't feel like a team that's gonna leave anything to chance, like they are going to be if they are on pace to hit this over. Will Dawkins and is Good and Michael Winger are going to make sure that they do not hit the over.
I'm convinced of that. They're flagging for Cooper in the pooper for Cooper. Yeah, in the pooper for Cooper.
This right here is why I definitely let Dan go first, because I didn't full disclosure.
Then you have to give your same take that you had heading here.
I was coming in here saying I'm gonna put it out there I'm gonna put it out there, Dan talk pay off the ledge.
No no, no, well, hold on, I didn't say that, but he said top four team in the East.
I definitely, I definitely did not say that, but I will say I like, you know, finally I'm looking at a roster. I was like, these are NBA players, These are actual guys that can be developed and be worked with. I like, you know, I like the fact that they made you know, coach Keef, you know, like the permanent head coach or at least, you know, for now, they
remove the interim you know deal. He's you know, he's got a you know, sixteen year career of you know, player development, and if ever there were a team that needs that, this is that team. But I will thank you because you have talked me out of I was definitely saying I could see this team win twenty five games, and I might.
Have even foolishly, foolishly put some money on you. Oh man, So wow, So thank you.
You sound like somebody who like you ever do you guys play fantasy Like you ever talk to somebody who's like a die hard for a specific team like I play fantasy football, And like people will be like yo, the fourth string running back for the Chicago Bears. Man Like people are sleeping on him, but I've been watching him in the preseason. He's like really really good. Like you sound like somebody who's just like read too much about.
The said degenerate this you just he sounds like you did too.
Much research on the Wizards, is what it sounds like.
It's been awesome, Like are you employed by the Wizards trying to increase the trade value? He's guys like that person in Jack's fantasy league who's trying to sell you on this poo poo platter of players for yeah, Patrick Mahomes or something like.
That's what that's out of.
Like they have actual NBA players, It's like they do. Who's like the tank commander And there's a chance that like Bob Carrington or Balakoulabali, who I love the latter, might just be their best player on the roster by season's end.
Like that's that's a pretty wild supposed to be.
Okay, So Jack, I did say Jordan Pool of it all. I did acknowledge that nothing against him. I wish well said.
Pool Party America is being invited to the Pool party again. Uh, you know, last year didn't go so well, but this year, get ready for some splashback. Yeah, we're back baby. All right, let's take a quick break and when we come back, Dan will be in the hottest of hot seats. You will be in the midst of the shootout at the rapid fire Corral. We'll be right back. And we're back and Dan. So this is the fastest segment in not
just basketball podcasting, podcasting in general. We can ask you questions you're coming back with just the first answers that come out of your brain. Just sounds whatever, It can be pre lingual. We just want we want it fast, okay, and if you slow it down at all, we will blame you and hold it against you. Does that sound good? Yeah? All right, Brian, start the clock. I don't like it. I don't I don't feel good it does. It's not becoming Brian. It's okay. If you don't, you know, do
whatever you want. All right. We've been asking our guests what is the official state bird of your state? In this case New York Blue Jay? I have no idea. Yeah, we we don't know. We don't care about that. What is the unofficial state bird of New York. Uh like a probably a crow, black crow. Yeah, okay, yeah, that is incorrect. We would accept trash pigeon, big bird, but the suit smells like urine or just straight up a rat. Any of those would have been okay, yeah, all right, Jabari, unto you.
What is your favorite all time throwback shoe and jersey? And I noticed you got a Team Mac jersey back there, but would that be in there?
No?
My favorite throwback jersey would be those Vancouver Grizzlies, like teal jerseys or just.
Spectacular yeah with the bear. Oh yeah, they got the bear on there.
My favorite throwback shoe, I would be a Team AC shoe if you guys. I don't remember the actual addition of it, but it was from Adidas that had like the spider web with the blue like it was white and had like the blue lines that looked like spider webs. It was in all those gop Milk magazine ads. When I finally topped the pair of those and I was playing youth basketball, I thought I was so freaking cool.
Those those were awesome. Man. I just googled te back throwback spider web and Google does not know what to do with that. So all right, what's the best slice for your money in all New York? Ooh pizza?
Oh no, not cheesecakeney thing about that? Then two Brothers or two Boots. There's like a place in Rockefeller Center or something that's the best pizza I ever had. It's like some home in the wall place. They might be called like two Boots Pizza or something. Really Rockefeller Center. Hot, Damn the Rockefellers still doing it after all these years. All right, that is also incorrect, but I won't get
into it. I'm a fan of John's or Bleaker Street Pizza, but those are both happened to be around where I lived when I was in New York, So uh, probably biased, Jabari, what you got?
All right? You know we're heading into the year.
We're doing all these fantastic breakdowns Southeast Division, of course, what is your biggest sleeper team or sleep What are your sleeper teams heating into the season.
I just want to pick the Pelicans, so you guys could yell at me again like you have the pass. I don't know. I kind of like it. I feel like people forgot that Dejonte is on the Pelicans.
Now they don't have any centers, so it's like easy to forget them against the place center there. I think for the sake of variety, the Houston Rockets have like twenty five guys that belong to an NBA rotation, and I actually think that we're gonna look back on this draft and wonder why Reed Shepherd wasn't taken number one. That guy gives off like Steph Curry vibes and just the way he gets to his mid range, the shooting in general.
I think he'll end up being a really good passer.
I don't know how much they're going to play him because they have so many dudes, but like Jabari Smith really good, I'm in Thompson really good. They have Shane Goon, Dylan Brooks is a psycho, Tarr Easton is defensive chaos creator.
I don't know if they're interested in.
Winning, but they won more. They forty one and forty one or forty and forty two last year. Like that's a team that people don't have penciled into kind of the playing territory or even the top six running. It would not shock me if their offense gets a little bit better. The defense is still elite, and this is a team that we're talking about like late in the year as a as a dark horse.
Well he did it, Jabari. I know you said no chance he makes it through another rapid fire round of questioning. But Danny Beans, Dan Favalley, you have done it. You have made it. Thank you so much for joining us once again on Miles and Jack Out, Matt Boosties and sometimes Jabari, Where can people find you? Follow you all that good stuff?
They can find all my written work at Leach Report, and I am podcasting always about the NBA at large on the Hardwood NOPs podcast.
You can check out all my content there. Thank you guys so much for having me.
I absolutely wonderful.
Jabari, where can people find you?
I'm easy y at Jabari A Davis all right.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore ol Brian uh and be sure to search hashtag Mad Boosties, Mad b double O s t I Ees for show links and updates, and be sure to join the conversation on our discord, which you can also find a link for when you search hashtag Mat Boosties. That is going to do it for another episodisode back next week with more NBA and we're only getting closer to the season folks,
and another Divisional preview and over under preview. We'll talk to you all then, Bye bye bye