Oh yeah, and this show is sponsored by kool Aid, so I might be saying, oh yeah, throughout East drink the kool Aid.
Yeah exactly, shout out of presenting sponsors, the Heritage Foundation. So so yeah, we got a bone to pick with you, girl.
Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three point fifty eight, episode two of Darn Daily's Like Guys production of iHeart Radio. And it's a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. We are still America's only undecided podcasts. The New York Times hit me up.
They said, you're undecided. Yes, you're undecided.
Oh my god, can we interview you forty seven times? I'm like, buy you some nachos to watch for debate. I mean, we do have another debate coming up, right, Maybe we should The New York Times. We're dead serious, we're undecided.
Both sides look.
For a.
Yeah, we truly don't know what to make of it.
Come through and throw us a viewing party.
Well, we're super down. Oh Miles, it is Tuesday.
Yeah, October first, twenty twenty four.
It's October. Yeah, wow, I'm there. I said November. Take your time. What are you doing it's October. I said that months ago, but as the.
Election is mainly entertainment, so I'm just getting excited.
It's almost sweeps time. Yeah. It's also look National Taco Day, National Fruit at Workday, National Pumpkin Spice Day. I know the companies couldn't hold back, but today is actually National Pumpkin Spice Day, not August fifteenth, and.
It's national we wait until October.
Yeah, exactly to imbibe the sweet spices of pumpkin. It's National Green City Day, National Black Dog Day, National Hair Day, National Homemade Cookies. It's a lot of days October first, it's chalk full of them. So there you go.
And we're not supposed to be eating fruit any other days of the week.
At work, yeah, national, I know, don't be greedy. National Fruit at Work Day. It just encourage, encourages some fruitiness to get through your day, is what the aim of this day is, so sure, encourage the fruitiness around you. Anyways.
My name is Jack O'Brien aka A little bit of Venning read in my life. A little bit of Italian get inside, a little bit of blue cheese.
All I need a little bit.
Of Russian all for me, A little bit of Caesar, oh my mind, A little bit of a thousand Island son, a little ginger carrot, can't be wrong.
A little mix of these then i'm your man.
Yeah, oh a little.
Then what do we call that long Island dressing? Because we said, if long Island icty is all the alcohols, that long Island dressing is.
On the dressing, all the salad dressings. That one courtesy of Snarfila on the Discord, in reference to the conversation we were having about having a long Island salad dressing with Blake Wexler. Of course, the Great Blake Webstler's episode on Friday where Miles said that a long Island dressing would be all the all the different dressings mixed together.
Very good episode that I.
Totally would have forgotten that conversation if you hadn't brought it up. So shout out to Snarfila on the Discold.
Yeah.
Anyways, I'm thrilled to be joined.
As always by my co host mister Miles Gregs Miles Gray.
Kay.
He puts me down down like an idiot clown, and it just always feels shitty. I know that vance kind of sounds like Pence, but why call me Mike when it's clearly jd Okay, shout out Halsey and Salad over there.
I wasn't sure if Trump had mistakenly called referred to jd Vance as Mike, but that feels very much in the realm of possibility. It's very hard to keep track of all of the lapses in memory and cognition, but I will just say, House and Salad, thank you so much for that one, the only foul Out Boy Fallout Boy song. I feel like I can faithfully do the course of so appreciate.
Jam you do it so well.
Thank you.
Any chance that we get to hear Miles do fall Out Boy, Housey on Salad, we salute you, Miles. We are thrilled to be joined in our third seat, yes by someone who it feels very embarrassing to be doing our aks in front of. They are the president and CEO of Democracy Forward, who recently testified on Capitol Hill about the extremist ideas pushed by Project twenty twenty five to the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, which must have felt like a nice warm up for this momentous
podcast Apparent. Please welcome sky Permos Guy. Welcome welcome, Welcome to the main events.
Guy, great to be here.
Oh thanks so much for joining us.
How do we compare so far to the to the House Oversight and Accountability?
Well, you know that you.
Know that hearing the Republicans called it, and I don't think they realized it, but every witness they invited either authored or sponsored Project twenty twenty five, and so so it was a it was a very interesting, it was very interesting hearing, and it's going to be interesting to be here with you guys. But neither of you, I think, authored or sponsored Project twenty twenty five. So we're already ahead.
Nothing that I'm putting my name on.
Yeah. Right, was this hearing sort of put together to try and like assuage people's fears, like they're kind of no.
They together a hearing that they called the quote unquote legacy of incompetence and of the Biden administration. That was the so called purpose of this hearing. And the four witnesses that they got, all of whom ended up having
a deep connection to Project twenty twenty five. And of course I was there to talk about the real threats that we have to our democ received Project twenty twenty five is included in that and the fact that many of the things that Biden Harris administration have done for people in communities have been stalled or blocked in the courts or in other places by these same groups behind Project twenty twenty five. But it was a very interesting day.
So I'm just I'm just glad to be here with people that are not authors of Project twenty twenty five.
Yes, yes, we're hard to find it.
Apparently was hard for the committee to find it, right.
Just the one person.
All right, well, skyt, we are gonna start digging into Project twenty twenty five. P. Two five, let's call it so we don't have to keep saying the syllable sounds cooler. Just let's just all figure it out for ourselves what we want to call it.
But before we do that, we do.
Like to get to know our guest a little bit better. Great asking you, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are?
My search history, Well, I'm taking this from an airport, and I was actually just searching the quickest place I could get a very quick diet coke here in the airport, So that both tells you that I appreciate diet coke. I know this is a kool Aid sponsored podcast, so I like to I like col too. But it shows you that, and it shows you that, you know, I don't. I don't. I don't do pepsi.
Yeah, you don't talk with diapepsy. You sit down to a table at a restaurant, they say you you order a die coke and they say it's die pepsi okay.
And I say iced tea please.
Oh wow, You're like, I don't like it that much, right.
Right, I think I'm They're probably lovely people and a great company or something.
But I'm a Dike.
Oh yeah, pepsi definitely.
You know, I'm trying. So we don't we don't need to make we don't need to you.
Know, right exactly. We're pretty loose about that.
But uh yeah, I I I'm a staunch Dike coke guy. I have as I've become less habitual in my diet coke consumption.
Which is good. That's that's good.
It's a it's a big positive for me and my lifestyle. I will say I've now will have a diapepsia every once in a while and be fine with it because I'm just not getting that every day, all.
The chemicals every day.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I thought I would become more sensitive and be like only the finest for me, but I think it's more.
Like, yeah, I just pour it down my throat. I don't care.
Yeah, well that's I'm glad that that. That's admirable that you're drinking less diet coke. And I've actually been trying to limit my consumption too, which is why the searches retells you.
I'm failing in that right right right, like fastest version now immediately with haste. I'm curious as somebody who you know, you're testifying on Capitol Hill. You're looking at all the imaginations of you know this this think tank, the Meritage Foundation, and how they're trying to just put the country backwards. I know that you must have also had your eye on this trend that's on the internet about marinating diet cokes, and I was curious about what your thoughts that I don't you know.
What, I'm don't even called to testify on that, so.
Yeah, oh got it. But have you heard about this. There's like a thing we were covering where people insisted that of a coke. Yeah, lookah yeah, but the concept being that if a diet coke is in the refrigerator for like, let's say, five days, that's the optimal I guess temperature for them taste the best? Or do you always like diet coke molecules aligned?
I am a I am a fountain diet coke person. Oh, I like a diet coke out of the fountain, Which is why when I'm in an airport, there's an opportunity because there, Yes.
You're a connoisseur.
Now I could have just been this diet coke influencer here.
Like it's only mountain you don't you won't have it any other way?
No, I mean I will drink it from a can, but I really prefer I think the fountain is good.
Yeah.
There's something about the plastic twenty ounce bottles that for some reason, like by the uh, make sure the coke is marinated five days in the refrigerator logic that like plastic bottles make it taste warm to me, you make it taste bad to me for some reason. I don't know if it's because it takes me too long to drink it, like it takes me a whole thirty seconds to drink it instead of like fifteen, so it.
Warms up a little bit.
But there's something that even though I'm sure the same chemical concoction is being poured into the plastic bottle that's being poured into the can specifically, the mini can, really hits hard for me. I do. I do love a fountain as well, but fountain obviously always variable.
There you go, There you go. That was a good question. I love it. I'm going to ask the scene that what about your search history telling that's great?
Yeah, sometimes it could be a little tricky, I'm sure an employee, because that's invasive.
What your search history is.
Yeah, yeah, if.
You don't know, that's a mistake with coworkers, fine. Uh. And then instead of just interacting with them in any way, you just have a notebook and go uh huh and make little like notations.
Check what are you writing down there? Nothing? Nothing, No, it's just real. That is real interesting. What is something that you and you are?
As you mentioned in an airport, So if people are hearing in the background some voices, those are airport announcements.
Airports.
Get get into the atmosphere. This is an atmospheric show. There we go what is sky something you think is underrated?
You know, I think.
Seeing a movie in a movie theater is underrated. I've been seeing I've been trying to now that now that you can see movies so easily at home or streaming, my family and I have been going to the theater. We went this weekend. I saw Wild Robot. I have an eight year old, so I saw Wild Robot. I saw Transformers last weekend. That was good too, But I think Transformers last weekend, I think the whole like going into the theater, getting the popcorn. I think it's I think it's underrated right now.
Yeah, well it's it's so easy to watch things on streaming, and I always find myself fighting the urge, Like I know I could watch it at home, but also I love me. I like a fountain Cherry Coke out the Founder.
And they have those those machines now you can pick it freestyles.
Yeah, I'm always tempted to try a different one, but I'm like, no, I don't want to be disappointed. I don't want to be just I'm just going to stick to Cherry. But no, Yeah, I love going to the theater now and I'm.
Cherry coke out a freestyle. That's your move, Cherry coke out of a freestyle machine, you know, so where it has like the red syrup shooting in and it's yeah, I do that with a coke zero.
That's true. And I'm such a purist. I show up and go to the freestyle and still just get the plane dicto.
And that in and of itself is its own pleasure. You have all the choices in the world at your fingertips and you're still showing you know, the one person who is still just going the classic DC.
Yeah.
I also have an eight year old and he is obsessed with robots right now, and so we saw Transformers one last weekend and I was saying on yesterday's episode, I made the mistake of letting him talk me into letting him watch the like Shia Labuff Transformers original, and he watched that and it's now his favorite movie of all time, and I think it has like profoundly changed his personality going forward.
He liked it so much. So just I would.
Recommend don't don't do that, which I probably weren't going to.
The Wild Robot just back on the Wild Wild Robot is good, So that would be a good man.
I know, I'm excited that was Jack. Think you about saying that take the robot, take the robot pendulum in then other direction and be like, what about a kind robot? It's just getting along with nature?
Yeah, what if robots weren't contracted with the Pentagon too? Fight Forever Wars? Yeah, the Chevy.
Product placement is so well.
Anyways, what is something Sky that you think is overrated?
I think rest is overrated.
Rest.
Yeah, I like resting, but I think that there's a lot of stuff to do in the world and things to see and work to do, which we're going to talk about, and so I think rest is a bit overrated.
How do you look at it, like in the sense that you because you think of everything that's happening, like I don't have time to rest, or that while it is good, maybe too much of the rest is a is a bad thing. How do you or how are you looking at rest?
I think more like it's good and we should all rest and but yeah we need that, but that I think that what really gets me energized is being able to go out and see the world or do your things. So that leads to a lot of compromises on vacation where we'll do some resting but also some exploring and those kinds of things. And then I think, in this moment, which we're going to chat about in like kind of where the country is, we've all got to rest and
take care of ourselves. But there's also work to do on this podcast or in Congress or wherever you know, or at the movie theater. But there's a lot of work to do.
I agree.
As long as I get my ten to thirteen hours of sleep a night, I feel like I'm.
Ready ready to put it out, put in a solid two hours back to all right, Sky, great work on the overrated, underrated.
Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and get into Project twenty twenty five. We'll be right back, and we're back.
We're back. Oh yeah, blue cool, all.
Right, So let's get into it. Democrats are saying Project twenty twenty five is basically the entire blueprint for the
next presidential administration if Trump wins. So I have a loose theory that I'm working on here because you see all of the wild shit that Trump is willing to say about everything, just like straight up immigrants are going to come into your kitchen and cut your throat and like, you know, all all the lies, all the violence, and and yet he runs away from Project twenty twenty five.
I'm curious to hear your take. Is there stuff in there that he's really afraid of being associated with or has he just not read it and he's scared of like that there's something in there that's how many pages is it? I feel like I feel like that at least has part of has to do with partially why he's just like backing away from it. But yeah, I'm curious. How much of the influence do you think the Heritage Foundation has when it comes to a next Trump presidency.
Well, the Heritage Foundation itself says that about two thirds of the policies that it proposes the prior administration implemented and administrations before that implemented. That's on its website. So I think we got to take them at their word that they're quite effective at shaping policy. And that's concerning for the vast majority of people in the country, Which is why I think the former president is seeking to distance himself, is that there's just no mandate at all
for these policies. Polling is out, there's new pulling out from last week. I mean, we didn't really need the polling, thetalysis, but it's just like like four percent. I think it's like just you know, very very low of people that would approve of the overall policy agenda, which is why I think you see him trying to distance himself from those because there's just no mandate for.
It, right right. And I'm like, I think people who listen to the show, we always hear we understand what Project twenty twenty five is and just sort of like how this could all, you know, pretty much curtail all of our rights in most cases, But like I'm just for in a broader context, can you just sort of talk about like what the Heritage Foundation is, Like, I
understand they're a think tank. They've had they've been making sort of playbooks for conservative administrations, I think since the eighties, But I think you have again, like how Jack was saying in the beginning, there's the emphasis like this could be everything that the Trump administration does. Then you have people, I'm sure because of the optics are so terrible, they're like, I mean I don't really know him or that or
what this is about. But just to give an idea, like again, I know because in their fundraising they say, like the Trump administration took sixty four percent of our policy exactly exactly. Yeah, So how why is it the Heritage Foundation specifically that's really the one pushing all this forward?
So I think this is a great and interesting question. I mean, the Heritage Foundation is a known sort of institution on the right that's very well funded. But what's interesting about this project twenty twenty five, this mandate for leadership that they've put out is over one hundred other organizations are banning together with the Heritage Foundation in this effort.
And some of those if you go look at the list, I think it's on their website, it's and we have some references at Democracy Forward you can go look at some of those institutions are ones that were active and overturning Roe versus Wade. They're institutions that oppose public education, their institutions that have opposed voting access. And so it's not just Heritage, but that overall ecosystem that is commonly funded,
very highly coordinated, as you can tell. And I think that's one thing we want to make sure people understand.
Right yeah, because it feels like it's sort of like a wish list, whether you're like one of these billionaires is like, I hate regulation. Can you do something about that too? Then the anti abortion movement, who also has like there's a like I get now, why is it sort of like this avengers of backwards groups because like everyone they're like, oh, and our little thing also gets represented in those two.
You know, there was a question in the prior administration about whether true conservatives, you know, people the country's interesting because all, you know, folks see things all differently. Some people are pepsi drinker, some are coke drinker, some are liberal,
some are conservatives. And there was a real question in the last administration about what traditional conservatives would do, would they would Trump be one bridge too far with this anti democratic at the point that we can't you know, there's now opposition over the right to vote again, there's opposition over basic rights. Are we moving forward? Are we
moving backwards? And really the prior administration and now this Project twenty twenty five answers that that there's a whole lot of these groups that have found common cause with each other that have been pushed further and further to the right in a way that doesn't represent the vast majority of people. So why you see people like Vice President Cheney rebuffing so much of this anti democratic activity.
Now, there was like an architect of Project twenty twenty five who is captured. I think he works at the Heritage Foundation or worked at the Heritage Foundation and was like captured on hidden camera basically being like, yeah, of course he's going to pretend he's not on board, but guys, he's like with us all the way, we've got this.
Didn't that happen like this summer that was that.
Was released, And we've seen a number of videos that have been released former Trump administration officials, of course, many of whom authored parts of the document. And so yeah, I mean I think that there's no way, you know, you can try to run, but there's no way for this movement to hide from the associations with Project twenty twenty five. You guys know this about my background. But Democracy Forward, we had to take the prior administration to court and we sued on a lot of the same
policies that appear again in this document. So there's just really no way to distance it.
I think, Yeah, and it feels like just because all of the attention right now, they've feels like this summer has been a lot of like like a lot of pr spin, you know, from because Paul Dan's right was the person who was like the director of Project twenty twenty five and when he was I don't know, fired, he says, wrongly terminated, like the Heritage Foundation says like he was his behavior was oh, very unconservative, like do
not look at Donald Trump. But for us it was a ridge too far, well like with that kind of a thing, because I think that was another move where people like, oh my gosh, they that was like a headline like the director of Project twenty twenty five has been fired, as if to sort of make people be like, oh, maybe things are losing momentum, but what what's what's it been like for the Heritage Foundation just generally how they're maneuvering because it seems like, oh, everybody knows about this
and if you read it, it's so bad. What do we do to try and make this seem like normal or acceptable.
Well, we've seen that, I mean we saw a number of these witnesses just I guess it was last week, two weeks ago when I was on Capitol Hill that had their talking points about, oh, this is nothing, nothing to see here, truly nothing to see here. There made nine hundred pages, but nothing to see. And the American people I think are smarter than that, and that's why
you see them. So, you know, rebuking this agenda. But I think the other thing that we're trying to make sure people understand, and you guys have talked about it on the show in different ways, but Project twenty twenty five is already here. It's not something that could happen. It's we're already seeing in states like Florida and Texas and Arkansas and Mississippi and places where we have to go to court because there are attempts to ban books
or to control ideas, to ban reproductive health care. So we're seeing a lot of these policies and ideas already afoot in states with very far right leadership, already afoot by these organizations that are going into court and trying to sue on fringe legal theories to restrict the right to vote, or to restrict the right to reproductive healthcare,
any number of things. And so we want to make sure that people understand that that there's a lot that we can be doing in our own communities now to oppose these really harmful and anti democracy, anti freedom ideas.
Right, and so some of these things that seem like fringe and like, you know, there're stories that are happening in other states if we don't live in Florida, and then you hear from people who are like, I'm in Florida, it's as bad as it seems. The idea is that it would just be national, like it like all of those things would now be attempted on a national scale.
So there are, yeah, there's pages throughout Projects twenty twenty five that says that they want to adopt, you know, at the federal level, certain ideas around education or policies that we've seen in states like Florida and Texas where there has just been a lot of restrictions on the freedom to read, the freedom to ideas, the ability for
schools to serve people in courts. We see, you know, there's this you all I think have talked about this with the Commstock Act, which is this Victorian era law that there has been a movement to resurrect, even though it's been broadly abrogated. That there's been a movement to resurrect to try to enforce criminal penalties on the transportation of obscene materials in the United States, which which it defines to include materials that might be utilized in the
provision of pregnancy termination and abortion. And that's actually something that these the same far right groups that are behind Project twenty twenty five are already trying to push in the court. It's something we heard a little bit of a discussion of this last Supreme Court term from Justices Alito and Thomas and the Alliance for Defending Freedom, which
is one of the groups behind the plan. And so I think that's that's the other piece of this is we need to be able to look at this extremism and not blink and understand it's here and use the tools that we have to oppose it.
Right, So I even like with you know, I know, the huge sort of tenets within Project twenty twenty five as it relates to abortion are essentially ban mifipristone enforced the Comstock Act, and then also like collect data from states about abortions performed, including like the state of residence for the mother and things like that to really just
clamp down in every way. I've also heard people say like that for them, it's like, if we can just get the Comstock Acting force, that's kind of good enough, because I guess the logic extends to the fact that they would essentially say, like any even supplies being sent to an abortion clinic would be deemed unlawful, and therefore you have like this de facto shut down of clinics.
Is there is there like debate within the anti abortion movement of like maybe we just can we just really press hard on the Comstock Act versus others.
They want anything that will chill reproductive health care, whether it's lawful or not, whether it's fringe or not, and Comstock is certainly one of them. I would be remiss if I didn't say that these are the same people that for years insisted they wanted to return things to the state, and now they're pursuing national strategies to try to prevent, you know, reproductive health care, even in even in states that that are protecting in it have permitted it.
And so I think that that, you know, I think we need to also be able to look at that hypocrisy and understand what we're up against.
Right all right, let's uh, let's take a quick break, and I want to come back and talk about whether and how this could even fuck with their ability to deal with the weather. Yeah, we'll be right back to it.
And we are back. Oh yeah.
And so Project twenty twenty five makes it possible for the administration to or a administration to dismantle NOAH and the National Weather Service. And so, I mean, just up top, the National Weather Service is the thing that gives us, like most of our weather information.
Absolutely, yeah, I mean it is. And I mean, you know, you said what's overrated. I mean I didn't say the weather app because I'm you know, sitting here in an airport.
You guys were all trying to their storms everywhere, trying to figure out So even when we utilize weather information from whatever our favorite services are, lots of that is built off of the publicly available Weather Service that enables all of us to access information not just about what the temperatures are going to be or how much it rained, but about the progression of storms or other things that
we need to know. And of course would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that we're talking amidst so many people in our country that are losing things, and there's been lots of flooding throughout as a result of these storms.
But yet Project twenty twenty five would dismantle that National Weather Service because it views our Weather Service and the data that is collected around weather patterns as a threat to their sort of ideological view that climate change is not real and and data and evidence are a problem if you if you want to, if you want to sort of pedal and misinformation, And so they want to dismantle the Weather Service.
Yeah, right, I'm seeing that this.
I think there was. So first of all, the head of the federal or not federal, the Heritage Foundation recently had an op ed in the USA Today, and then the USA Today also like recently fact checked this fact. And they're like, it just gives them the ability to dismantle the NAA and the National Weather Service. It doesn't have like it's not doing for it.
It's like it says it should be broken up. How else to take.
Yeah, specifically says that the NOAA is one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry. Correct, So yeah, and why do you think they're calling for it? If and giving themselves the ability to do it if they're you know, not going to do it. We weird things happening at the USA today. Apparently with regards to Project twenty twenty five.
It feels like sort of like one one part is like obviously the curtailing of rights is a huge part, and then the other was like, erase the receipts that allow for people to call for progress, because if you have no data about the environment, then that's one less tool people have to like rhetorically vest us in saying we need to take care of the planet.
And that's one thing we saw. So in the prior administration there was an effort to stop collecting data or to undermine data. So this isn't you know, this isn't just what's in Project twenty twenty five. This is what happened. Lawyers at Democracy Forward we had to go to court to stop the Trump administration when they wanted to stop collecting wage data around demographics. They just didn't want to
collect it. You don't have a wage problem, a wage gap problem, or any inequity in pay if you don't collect the data. And we were able to win that suit. But that's the type of trend we see, including with the National Weather Service and what they're saying. I will say, and I think you all have seen this, but on our website at Democracyforward dot org, we have a people's
guide to Democracy Forward. We have a people's Guide to Project twenty twenty five, and it actually has all of these things and has the page numbers in Project twenty twenty five. So when you mentioned the fact checking, we've tried to do that for the American people so that you don't have to go through all nine hundred pages, but you can see these things. And the Weather Service is one of the areas that we flagged, you know, right there with the page numbers that you're reading off of.
So right, so if you need to get into a spirited Paul debate, you can be like no, and here look right here where it says that. Because there are plenty of people who are so dismissive too, because depending on where you hear news, people are gonna be like, it's just a friend, it's full of fringe stuff that nobody's listening to. But again, anyone, like we were saying at the top of the segment, is like no, about nearly two thirds of the policy you know, ideas are
coming from the Heritage Foundation. So to act like it isn't, I think is a huge.
I think that's right.
Yeah, yeah, I really worry about, like because the ability to dismantle all of the important things that the federal government does for us just feels like it's very low
hanging fruit in the United States. Like I just feel like those stories don't get told that, like, oh, the this is your tax dollars at work, Like unless someone's saying sarcastically, they are your tax dollars at work, folks, Like people don't actually ever report on what the National Weather Serve, Like the important work that is being done by these things is just treated as like a given or it's like there's a there's a great anecdote and uh,
I think it's a Michael Lewis book where somebody is like, why would we continue funding the National Weather Service when we have weather dot Com, like we we have a privatized version, And he's like, yeah, so they get all their data from the.
National Weather Service exactly, that's uh.
But nobody like the way I feel like that this like Wall Street mindset has invaded everybody in the United States and they just don't want it to be true that like all this federal government investment has given us so many of the good things that we have today, and so it just it feels like this is going to be even though it would be. You know, we saw what happened, like what Trump has done with weather
information that isn't convenient for him. We saw him like change a hurricane map with a sharpie, like in front of people, like on.
A national stage.
Like imagine what he'd do behind closed doors to actual weather reporting at a time when global climate change makes the case for scientists that we should be very afraid. And like, you know, he obviously is on the side where like you know, with fossil fuel companies and the GOP that are claiming it's not you know, he's gonna he's going to use that power.
I feel like, in really damaging ways and probably be like and every hurricane will be called Obama or Clinton after this. There's only two names, and they're all bad
and they're always the reason for your demise. But yeah, that's I think I'm also curious too, like there's aside from again the total just taking back of rights for nearly every single person in the United States, what are some of like the other policy goals that are being underreported on because I think rightly, the like the huge stuff that affects the largest number of people gets a lot.
But I feel like there's a lot of other things that are really really could like a small policy shift that can actually resonate in a huge way that we're not really talking about absolutely.
I mean, one of them is overtime pay and the eligibility standard for overtime. There's a call in the document to change to revise that standard, which would disqualify millions of Americans for overtime pay. So if they revise a standard so that if you make a certain amount of money and you qualify, now they may say, well that's too much money, so you don't qualify for overtime pay.
And at a time where it's very hard for people to make ends meet, this is a really troubling and I think the estimates are about four point three million people could lose eligibility to overtime. And you know that's extreme, Like who doesn't believe that you should be paid for the extra hours that you're working these jobs? But that's that's one of the ones that I would point out.
The civil service has gotten a lot of there's been there's been some press I think around schedule aff or the attempts to purge the civil service, but I think there's been less conversation about what that really means. It's not just actually about people that work for the federal government losing their job or being at risk of losing their jobs. Certainly that would happen, but think about all the things federal government employees do that we really take
for granted. I mean, think about an agency like the FDA that's keeping our drug and food supply. Sing do you want someone that's not an expert, like you know, opining on sort of the particulate matter in a you know, in a certain substance and whether that's safe or not. I mean, that's really scary for all of us, and especially for those of us that are raising kids and active in our communities. And so I think those are some of the things that I think people are starting
to see it. It's unsettling people don't like Project twenty twenty five, but there's real ways this could like impact one's day to day life in these real profound ways.
Because I just look at even like recently, there's like that bores head facility had a listeria out and a lot of that they're tying back to the things that were rolled back under Trump to be like, well, it's made a little too much oversight in this food processing facility and now you have like listeria outbreaks because it maybe wasn't deemed important enough or that we can trust a company be like, yeah, man, just you're fine as long as you guys are holding up to standards, will
believe you, and then cut to an outbreak of listeria that's actually had terrible, terrible consequences for people.
Yeah. I mean another thing is like, so are prescription drugs right? And the prescription drugs for many people are not as affordable as they should be or as accessible as they should be. And so Congress actually, under the Biden the Harris administration, when it passed the Inflation Reduction Act, there's a provision in there that allows Medicare to negotiate
drug prices, which would overall lead to greater affordability. We right now at Democracy Forward, represent hundreds of thousands of doctors through medical associations like the American Medical Association and others who are weighing in in court saying like this is really important for public health. Twenty twenty five calls
for the repeal of that. And so where we've seen some progress and seen some things that can make things more affordable, make it easier for people to make ends meet to take care of their family, product twenty twenty five would would call that back head Start. And lots of people in this country have either been a beneficiary of head Start or families that are relying on Headstart for early childhood development for young people. They want to
eliminate Headstart. I mean, this is basic stuff and a lot of these programs are programs that have been supported for many years by both Democrats and Republicans. They're not particularly controversial programs, but yet it calls for the elimination of them.
Yeah.
Also, the dismantling of the FBI, I believe is in there and not for the good reasons, but rather because they're mean to Donald Trump. This was just eliminating for me because I was like, oh shit, are we going to have to spend the next four years rooting for the FBI again? Like that should I feel like that should be Kamala Harris's slogan, just like do you want to spend another four years on the same side as
guys like James Komi in the FBI. No, you don't like vote for me, you don't want to cheer for the FBI again, guys, Come on.
I think the other thing, like you talk about in the work you do, Skuy, is like the idea or rather the fact that a lot of these terrible policies it's here already. We don't need Project twenty twenty five to know that these threats are actually clear and present and in effect. And like again, even if Trump is defeated, I think my worrying, like other people's is obviously the ethos of this document lives on until you know, everything is found to be illegal by a Supreme Court or
something like that. But like in Indiana, you're referencing like states already having policies in place. Like in Indiana, I think the Attorney General launched a site where basically parents can docs and snitch on teachers that share quote objectionable curricula, policies or programs, and they relate a lot of that do like being justices of our country read like systemic racism and other things like that that plague our society.
But what, like I guess, the long term to fight all of this these mini Project twenty twenty fives, is it that like again, the first step is probably to defeat Project twenty twenty twenty five at a federal level. But then now at the state level, what does that fight look like for like legally and also just for people to be aware and like, what is that sort of look like to you?
Lots of work to do. So yes, first of all, it could get worse, So let's not endorse Project twenty twenty five at the federal level, which I think is people are understanding. But at the state level, one thing is now we know this is a deeply unpopular agenda, and so it's important that we take a close look at what's being proposed in the states, and if it appears in this Project twenty twenty five playbook, we need to be saying that so that people understand what's at
stake in these policies. But the state of sessions will start in the new year, and there will be a lot of work to educate policymakers about what people's needs are, and we and others will work on that with communities in the states. And then when states pass unlawful and
harmful laws, it's time to go to court. And you know, at Democracy Forward, we had to sue Texas because they're blacklisting companies for their sustainable investments, I mean actually putting businesses on a blacklist, and a state that's purporting my home state, but a state that's purporting to be pro business, I mean in Arkansas, We've had to sue to block criminal penalties on librarians that Sarah Huckaby Sanders signed into law.
And so there's a lot of these extreme ideas already taking foot, already becoming law, and there are things that people can do. And so that's a great you know plug for following our work at democracyfoard dot org. And we can connect your listeners with a lot of other organizations too that are going to be doing that work. But we can't take our foot off the gas, even if we're able to defeat this at the federal level, because the threats are here and they're real, right.
Yeah, And I think it's easy to forget too where you're like that thing's too wild to pass, and like and it doesn't happen. You don't realize, Oh, it's because there were a lot of lawsuits that prevented that. So I think sometimes it's easy to take for granted. It's like the actual work that's done to be like no, no, no, See they say something wild and out of pocket, and then you have to go in and sue to prevent that. Otherwise the door just opens. And then which and what.
That means is that people have to decide that they're going to use their position that they're in to push back. So in Texas, we're representing an association of businesses that's having to use their position. We represent the generic manufacturer of mythi pristone that has sued in West Virginia to block an abortion van that makes it impossible to access them and utilize their medication in the state. And these are, you know, everyday decisions. And then we represent people like
parents and teachers that make a decision. But these are everyday folks or small businesses that are deciding to use their position in this time. So, you know, rest can be overrated a little bit, even though it's good and we've all got to get to work.
Yeah, just three years into the Trump administration and he's able to put these plans into effect like that it really does feel like it would be a complete like post apocalyptic like what does that look like?
Would you imagine?
Well, I think that we see a vision of that in Project twenty twenty five, but in other things as well, And you can look around the globe too to see that the types of democratic backsliding in twenty twenty one. After January sixth, then I think January sixth is a good place to look to see what things could look like. But in January sixth, the United States has added to
a list of global backsliding democracies. And I mean we are now on a list of democracies in the world that are not moving forward but have been put moving backwards because of election and violence and rises and political violence, and so so I think that we can look at some of the things that have happened in this country and see that and what that could look like on a greater and broader scale. They've been clear that they
want to engage in a retribution agenda. Last week there was a news story that suggested that they would want to jail people who criticize the Supreme Court, which is a court whose majority has reversed the rights for over half the population in this country, you know, on their watch. And so I think that there's really no telling where
this goes. But the main thing that we know is that one of the top tools that sort of more authoritarian governments and leaders and far right leaders have is to try to try to convince people that there's nothing that they can do, that there's no reason to fight back, there's no reason to sort of push back, that they have it all in the bag, and this is where we're going and there's nothing that you can do and
that you're powerless. And what the American story tells us, and what our work every day tells us is that people do have the power in this country. And so that's what, you know, that's what we will be focused on in all scenarios is making sure that people can use all the tools our democracy provides to push back and to defend their freedoms.
So what what are some of those tools that you would say like that just to people who aren't you know, legal experts, or what is ship posting?
Yeah?
I mean obviously ship posting is the main one, but are there any others?
Or podcasting? So look, I think using you know, we say this all the time that I mean certainly registering and voting, but using your voice is important, and it's not just important on social media or on podcast or
at big meetings. It is important that we're having these conversations in our communities, that we're talking to people about what it feels like to be someone who has either experienced or rights violation or has a you know, has a kid that's affected by one of these policies, or you know how to love one or family member that is or are themselves right, and that we're having these conversations.
So using the voice and making sure that people are connected and not able to distance themselves and their experiences from these broader ideas I think is really important. Obviously, people can use the third branch of government, which they don't utilize as much as they should, which is our court system. And that's what we do at Democracy Forward is we want to make sure people we represent all
of our clients free of charge. We want to make sure that people have access to the courts and can challenge harmful and unlawful activities in their local communities and their state communities are at the federal level, and then we see that people you know, use their voice in federal government and state government as well. But there's a lot that we can all do in this time to stand up for our values and to stand up for our country.
Great, when you're talking about democracies backsliding, what are some examples that people could like look to to read about in other countries? Like, what are some other countries that are experiencing the same sort of democratic backsliding, either now or throughout history.
Yeah, so there's a there's a great report. So if you google the twenty twenty one Democratic BACKSID, it was an International Institute of Democracy in Electoral Assistance idea International Institute of Democracy and Electoral Assistance is what places the US on the list, and you can read about other countries that are also on that list. And then the Carnegie Institute has done some really good research and publication
about the types of trends in the United States. What is happening is that there's this active, what we call a countermajoritarian movement, right, so, a movement that doesn't represent the vast majority of people in this country, that nevertheless is wielding large amounts of political power, whether that is through misinformation, whether it's through gerrymandering and structural issues that
are keeping people from being represented. Project twenty twenty five, by the way, this is what I told Congress is an example of that. You have a policy that is completely unpopular and harmful to vast majority of the people, but yet it is taking this national and it's because of this ecosystem of far right actors. So you can read more about that, and I'm happy to come back
on and chat about it. But that is I think that we have to view Project twenty twenty five in this broader context, which is the type of this type of testimony I gave a few weeks ago, and also just remembering January sixth, I mean, we had a disruption in the peaceful transition of presidential power for the first time in our countries of modern history, and so those are really concerning.
Well, thank you so much Scott for coming on the show. Thank you for having We really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule. Where can people find you, follow you, find out more about your work.
Yeah, go to Democracyford dot org. Definitely get the people's guide to Project twenty twenty five, but learn more about our work. You can follow us on all of our social media channels. We even have TikTok and have some interesting videos people love that have been going viral, especially around Product twenty twenty five. So Democracy Forward, Democracyford dot org and I'm sky Perriman. You can find me on Twitter and It's and all this channels as well.
Right, and is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?
Last question?
A work of media? Not this, I mean in addition to this, Oh, thank you.
Thank you, I mean it could be this, Yeah, it's could be this good and wild.
Robot, Wild Robot was good. You know, I really I enjoy I have been enjoying sort of follow up thing. I think that I do think that a lot of videos that are being made and posted on like sort of Instagram reels that are taking perspectives from various you know, local media. I read a lot of local papers. I read a lot of local papers. Had a mentor one time that told me, whenever you go to a tad travel a lot for work, you know, pick up the
local paper and read it. I love reading the editorial pages of local papers and seeing what's up in communities, including the small town that I'm from, which I still take that paper. So I love doing that, but recently we've been seeing lots of great influencers and creators be able to put a lot of that perspective, you know, put a lot of that protect about on reels and video and that's that's really fun and I think it's
it's a good way to engage cross generationally. We want to watch a lot of those at our house with young people and it's great, awesome, great.
All right, well, thank you again for joining us. And Miles, where can people find you as their working media you've been enjoying?
Yes, find me Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray.
If you like basketball podcast, Jack and I always have a basketball podcast called Miles and Jacko Mad Boosties. If you like Tindy Day Fiance, I also talk about that on four twenty Day Fiance. Work of Media.
I like, so, as somebody who famously has not seen all the Marvel films, we wanted to watch that new Catherine Han like Agatha all the Time show. But then I was like, I think I need to see WandaVision before I understand this. And then they're like they're like, to understand WandaVision, you need to know all these other things. So I decide. I just look, I'm jumping into WandaVision, and so far I really like it, even though I'm probably missing a lot of the references, but so far
enjoying it. So I'm just gonna say that. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm with I'm rocking with Wanda right now if you read.
The King Jam's Bible and the Iliad, because I feel like you're gonna need to understand both of those to get one division, and then those will.
Explain a couple of the other.
Lady, yeah, right, right right, and finally get up to WandaVision.
No, not yet, not yet.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian piece of media. I've been enjoyed. So I read the book three Body Problem, and then the second in the trilogy, The Dark Forest. I have not finished the third one, but I just watched the HBO or sorry no Netflix adaptation by benioffen Wis and it's fine.
But I did enjoy it because it.
Has a scene involving nano fibers that I had like in the book blew my mind. I was like, this is one of the coolest cinematic scenes that I could imagine, can't wait to see what they do with that, and they did it right. I feel like it was pretty wild scene. Anyways, you can find us on Twitter at daily Zeikeeist. We're at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fanpage and a website dailyzeikeist dot com
where we post our episodes and our footnotes. So we'll link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, what's the song you think people might enjoy?
This is a track from the New Jersey based artist fifty four Ultra and it's called Heaven Knows and it's again another one of these like modern bands that's doing something that I was like, is this like a last like late sixties motown B side I've never heard? But no, it's a song from like this the last two years and the guy's whole aesthetic is really dope and if you like that kind of music, you're gonna love this one. So this is Heaven Knows by the artist fifty four Ultra.
Oh right, we will link off to that in the footnote for Daily Zeigeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcaster, wherever Fine podcast will give it away for free. That is going to do it for us this morning. We are back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we will talk to you all that.
Bye bye