Jack Get in your paranormal studies, have you encountered any Matilda's any people with Matilda powers? Oh?
That is a great question. I mean there's been a Matilda adjacent people. But honestly, if I heard about Matilda, if somebody came to me claiming to be Matilda, I think I'd be skeptical of them right off the bat.
Yeah, right, right right? Read so good that you can move things with your mind? Come on, exactly, chocolate cake thrown at your teacher or whatever? That didn't you do that? Yeah? I mean there's a I know that somebody made it was forced to eat a cake. She's like starts out with the standard gateway crime of spilling water on this on her teacher, but then it moves on to chocolate cake and then writing spooky message on the board with her brain. That's a good one.
I mean that cake scene was supposed to be torturous, but I feel like I can handle it.
I know, one of the best looking cakes in cinema history.
Did they make it look so good? It's delicious? I don't know.
I feel like just food and movies always looks good, like the when in Jurassic Park when they get back into.
The visitors Jello, all of it, the ice ice cream, because it's melty ice cream too. Just oh, it's just the way they're fucking their way.
Yeah yeah, And I think what those kids are gone for like fucking ten hours at that point, right, But anyway, that's mine.
I'm about to eat, doctor Grant. I was so hungry out there, Bro, you were gone for three hours. Tell you one bit of food that didn't look like it tastes good. In Jurassic Park, Samuel L. Jackson, that guy's smoking so much. I bet I bet the dinosaurs spit him right out. I think you're gonna say that pile of shit. Nobody was checking for that. Hello the Internet, and welcome to season four to twelve, Episode two of
Didi's Eight Guys. This is a production of iHeart Radio's the podcast where you take a deep dive into america Shared consciousness, and this week that shared consciousness got cobwebs in it. The spookiest thing that anything can have. Talking about virgins, talking about virgins, Yo, we light a candle if you're a virgin in Salem. Talking about yesterday's episode in hocus Pocus, how everybody keeps roasting that fourteen year old boy for being a virgin, including his six year
old sister. I have not seen that movie in a while. Apparently, Oh yeah, I hadn't either. I saw when I was a kid, and I was just like getting slammed as a fourteen year old as a fold for being a virgin by children like and then by a ghost of a Puritan.
Yeah.
I think it's weird that this guy hasn't fucked yet.
Famously, the Puritans would not think that, hence the name.
That's right, although there is a I talked about this episode, but there is a school of thought that thinks that the Puritans had so many rules about not having sex because they were fucking so much that eyewitnesses like the obvious he's doing fucking public anymore. Yes, that's funny.
That Puritan's name Factory Binks. I was like, what a fucking dumb name, dude.
Oh come on, man, they ate with that. Factory Binks is like fucking that's like George Lucas level bullshit name.
I forgot to I forgot to bring this up with the actor who plays the kid Max. I think the main kid he's now just like in a like he's just like a weed grow did. Yeah, we'd get hell yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's better than the fate of a lot of nineties actors where they're yeah yeah, shot up with gas station or something. That's like, I feel like half of the people I saw in movies that I liked as a kid.
And want to oh starters like half the Power Rangers. You know, you don't know. We could open that wikuld be up and see it written in the past tense, you know what I mean. No, yeah, by the way, it says he was an actor, and I'm like, uh oh, but he's fully on weed dude company off the ground exactly.
No disrespect. He's probably making so much more money in the week.
I don't know. Basically, I'm looking. I was, I was, I was trolling his I g did not seem that popping. Yeah, okay, well, at least I'm hoping he's happy. The update was that he still keeps in touch with some of the people who were in Hocus Pocus with him. That's like one of the And here's what we know of him now because they kill it at the cons. They go do signings. Yeah, yeah, they want they want to meet him.
Here's something about hocus Pocus, I could share by all means, I remember being very attracted to Sarah Jessica Parker's character in it when I was a kid.
What's wrong with you? Why? What? What was going on?
But I've never had that experience with any other Sarah Jessica Parker role. Yeah, And I don't even know if I realized it was her, you know what I'm saying.
It was the thicker eyebrows. You know what I mean, maybe you didn't have as thick an eyebrow.
Yeah, that was gonna be my guess to the thicker eyebrows.
It's like specifically the witch version of her and no other role.
I mean, I followed her her body of work for many years. It's one of her better performances. Like she she gives a great performance. She fully embodies that kind of dizzy, silly, off balance character. Yes, yeah, yeah, we have. Do people give their flowers a Kathya Gemie enough? Not nearly? So she's doing like a weird mouth thing in that one where she like only has control of one side of her mouth. Never explained, just a bit of business for herself to be doing.
Gmmis insane. Pol I don't know if you guys have IMDb in front of you, or if you just have encyclopedic.
No again, she was his sister. Aye, that's killed it, sister. Never forget Kathy a Gmians. But yeah, there's something about Sarah Jesaca Parker's makeup, even though like it's pretty. It's not like she's wearing prosthetics or anything. But I watched it with my family yesterday and my wife, who's like very IMDb brained and like has like facial recognition technology and her brain was surprised that it was Sara Jessica Parker. Yeah, it never happens. Can't catch her sleeping on. It's the
darker eye makeup and eyebrows, I'm telling you. Anyways, it is Tuesday, October twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. Yeah, three days from the spookiest day of the year. Oh hell yeah I do. But of course what are we celebrating.
Oh, it's also a National first Responder's Day, National Internal Medicine Day, Wow, very very healthy, real safety. And also National Chocolate Day that feels more in line with the week of Halloween. It's National Chocolate Day. That feels there's so many there's like forty National Chocolate Day. I was gonna say, I feel like there's a lot too many. Yeah, to tie those things together. A block from where I'm recording is a place that I think is very strange.
It's a dispensary. It has dispensary, but it's a chocolate dispensary.
They do not really.
Oh yeah, dispensary. I know what you're talking about. It it's and it's a place. I think we brought it up on the show to where before you have been on Jack. But like the people in there, like I've heard the owner really hates that people think there's weed in there, even though it's a real type.
Of guy to be to start business Los Angeles and your business has dispensary on it, It's like, why.
Would you are the edibles? I mean, yes, they're all edible.
It's like the guy starts a root beer store and the scientist a big neon sign says beer cold to be thinking there's Pacifico's here, what the yeah?
But indeed it's just part of the Like chocolate is a drug kind of loved in the late nineties where it's like I'm a chocoholic. I can't stop I.
Think it's meant to just be like very just like the most buy the book definition of a dispensary, you know what I mean, it's how they look at their place.
Anyway. They got it from me. The weed stores got it from me. Anyways. My name is Jack O'Brien aka Jackhammer Killer oh Dan of course courtesy of Snarfila on the Treehouse of Horror's nickname this is I discovered a reference to a two thousand and four film called The Jackhammer Massacre. I think I have to assume that's who The Jackhammer Killer is about, a guy who you guessed it uses a jackhammer to kill people. It does sound like he's the protagonist, Like it's a you follow his dissent.
He's like a businessman and his friend dies and that like sends him over the edge. So it's like a Michael Douglas falling down American psycho situation. He is, and this is a spoiler alert for anybody who's planning on checking it out, he is ultimately undone by the fact that the jackhammer needs to be plugged in.
If it comes unplugged, God, is that even true? I mean, I feel like they have need my power than that.
Yeah, I would have assumed that it is just something you like edit out, but they were like, no, this is gonna be the crux.
Of Oh okay, wait no, he's probably using like a more handheld jackhammer, like, uh okay, interesting he doesn't have like a cordless Makida option. It's a yeah, I would miss my probably made before the cordless era. I guess two thousand and four. You'd think or like a gas powered one, you know what I mean, where you could do like a scary like rip the cord and it's like instead, it was like, hold on, let me plug this in really like a like a hot glue bull.
Hey you got a fifty foot extension. That's what happens. The cord comes unflugged. That does if I were a slasher. That does sound like the sort of ship that would get me caught up over the house and then find an outlet. That's really funny. Oh, it's one of the ones that attached to the light switch, so I have to like turn the lights on to get the quigged in. It's a too prong's you don't have gfcason here.
Yeah, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host, mister Miles Gras. It's Miles Gray Gay trust dementia, Trust got dementia, Trust got dementia.
Trus got dementia, or Truans got dementia, or Trum's got dementia, but dementia trus dementia.
Okay, shout out to me.
This morning, we were talking about intergalactic we were talking about Jack coming on. We're talking about intergalactic ship, and then we were also talking about that we would have also accepted another dementia, another dementia because we got two presidents in a row.
Baby, everyone's got dementia.
Baby, if you gotta be on the hill, you gotta have rocket dementia. Congress by dementia. Yeah, Congress too. It's so many of them. We have the geriatric Congress night right now. It's crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, I think people who have who can barely know if they're going to be alive for the next three months, be dictating what the future looks like ten years from now.
Get them out of here. Get them all out of here. I'm just going, I'm sorry, I'm agist. Get him out for something at a certain hundred percent. Yah, get them out of there agism is just like I don't. I'm worried for them. I got it. And every time there's a video of Mitch McConnell, like, I'm like, is he going to make it through this video, let alone the day? Like it's harrowing. Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in our third seat once again by the director, journalist,
and hosts behind one of the great podcasts. It is about as I think he put it the first time. He was on the fact that the world is queerer than many of us suppose, indeed, queer than many of us can suppose. It's called other world. He's called Jack Wagner.
To be clear, I did not say that, but thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure as always to be here. I did not call my show queer. If I did, it would be in a positive way.
Yes, yeah, yes, that fake quote, I thought, Man, did you actually think time? Did you actually think I said that I had that quote and maybe it was something that I thought was I think it was being used to describe the paranormal. Wait, that's me. I said.
It's original, it's giving pre nineteen hundred. Yes, for sure, for sure, for sure, but I'll take it. I'll take it's a good quote.
It's a good quote. Quote sums up some of my favorite parts of you.
Although you should start doing that to every guest is kind of like ye and see what they do with it if it's a good quote, Like I mean, sometimes you might want to take credit.
Why not? You know? Yeah, Jack, thank you so much for coming back. You think you any travels and travails since you were last we wanted to have you on on the spookiest of weeks. Thank you. Your podcast is so good. We're gonna end up just being like, man, you remember that episode that was crazy and sometimes I might not remember it, which is the craziest part. True, is that real, dude? So we're gonna We're gonna basically do that in the body of the episode. Hell yeah.
But first we do like to get to know our guests a little bit better by asking you, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are?
Okay, this is I have an answer to this. It's a it's a layered response though, and this actually it sort of caused a lot of reflection for me. I searched through my Google search history. Normally this should be horrifying, right, like, this is not something you want even your significant other to access. I was scrolling through mine, dead serious, completely dry. It would dox me. So I'm not gonna let you look,
but I would let you look. It's that boring. I had to scroll three weeks back to find something interesting, dude, I'm telling.
You how mundane it was. I was like, literally for bigger right foot, not even that dry.
I was just like purely looking up like addresses, and I'm like, oh, right, dinner in Echo Park just that, and then like kind of googling just facts to confirm, like spellings of things, no spice whatsoever, just no flavor, no fun, no wild cards. I was looking at this and had to go three weeks back in the history to find something, you know, off color, funny, weird. But I'm like, dude, I think I need to get to I need to go back to my roots and get a little weirder because this is.
The last three weeks. I yeah, hold a mirror up to you that you didn't.
Know nothing even embarrassing. Damn, I think even embarrassing. I'm like, oh, I mean.
Ones do flies?
Fuck, that's a great search. See, I don't even have any of that, dude, And I mean, I don't know. I mean, and part of it just sort of reveals my own ignorance. But that's the fun of it, right, just being transparent about how little I know about how flies copulate?
Do they? Is it? I feel like it must be an egg situation in the larva, right, that's what you think.
Until I caught him banging outside on a chair.
I was, and I was like, how are they hit it? Oh?
Yeah, like straight from the like from the back. Yeah, yeah, some interesting on another fly the female uses like an egg two to like it's it's very interesting.
Anyway, So you got nothing very dry? No? No, okay, so I scrolled where did you get? No?
I did find one? Oh god, yeah, I I'm Stephen looking at it right now. This is uh so embarrassing. I'm like looking up sponsors, like you know, you guys do ads, like I'm sure you have to go through the approvals of like brands that could be advertising on the show.
I'm just googling that.
But anyway, the little ultra evil. Yes, But the one I found that I do think is funny is can water go bad?
Mm?
Yeah? This is not a question for me, but I did want to know. This was like something I was arguing with my wife about. She thinks water could go bad. I'm like, they get the bottles, you know what I mean, Like, that's that's what we read. How long a cup sitting out in the house? How long sitting there until you can't drink it?
I mean you probably just evaporate at that point. I'm more thinking like a bottle of water, like, oh, that ship said drink by like ninety eight.
Yeah, that's another good question.
I mean, if it's plastic, I would be a little concerned that tasting.
Like plastic is usually like my if it If it tastes like plastic, you usually that happens if it's like been in a car like for fifteen cycles of like the.
Moon, well fifteen moon cycles. Yeah, yeah, let me ask you. That's like water. There's like a cup of water on the side of your bed, yes, from the night before?
Yeah?
Would you drink it the next night if it was there and available and you needed it. I don't get in the plants tastes like room.
Tastes like room.
Okay, it tastes like there, it absorbs like be fucking in that. I don't care about that. It just tastes like room. Tastes like the room, like an overnight cup.
I don't know.
Maybe I would get a little tiny bubbles on the foot. Yeah, it just gets It's just a little stale.
I guess that's how I think. Yeah, this is just something I wanted to know.
You know, Wait, so is there an answer no that it cannot like what scenario?
Because I forgot? Can't water go bad?
I mean no, I think it's the answer is no, but like I think it's oh wait, yes, water can come back. Technically, the water itself does not expire. The main issue are contaminants from the container or outside sources, degradation of the canar itself over time, especially if exposed to heat or sunlight. So you know, we were not far off, far off.
Yeah.
Yeah. The thing that I'm always imagining happening is I took a sip my mouth, germs have like somehow invaded and started to colonize the wall, and it's going to just be like bad bread in there. It's just like that inside your body, right, yeah, exactly, So I should be fine, but none, none of the les us. I'm like I'll take a this is for the plants. Now, this is for the kids. I put it in my kids. A little cooler with your mouth, exactly? Do we pass
our legacy along? What is something you think is underrated? Jack? Waking up early is underrated? Waking up early?
I like, I'm a big fan of waking up super early. How up before sunrise if possible? So Mark, some like Mark Wahlberg, shit not on that. I mean, that's crazy. In fact, I'll say I will say that being buff is overrated.
Mm hmmm. Waking up early under that's crazy because most people that are fucking jacked, dude, are waking up early. Man, you and a bunch of jacked people who are awake and moving at the time that you're waking up.
I mean, yeah, I think you know the gym crowd they have to do and there are there are the late night gym people. That's right, some serious jack dudes will be in there at like weird hours, like a let and thirty working out.
You know. Yeah, so you gotta get three hours of workout in every day, you know, you got to pick your spots.
Yeah, yeah, But I would say, I'll yeah, I'll keep with this line and say that being buff is overrated. I mean, look, I think, uh, if you are buff, more power to you. I think so much of it is genetics, you know. In fact, like Matthew McConaughey I think was like quoted saying that he just like kind of randomly bangs out push ups throughout the day and like doesn't really have a routine.
I think it was. But it's like, yeah, there are guys who just kind of look like that just genuinely looks great without a shirt on since he was like ten years old.
Yeah, and then like for your resisting nature, it's like really really hard to change it. But yeah, I mean I think it's overrated. Like like to to really be that shredded, it's like a full time job. Yeah, that's a lot of time, a lot of dedication. I'm like it's crazy, and we have a Yeah, training is overrated.
I'll just say that.
America's obsessed training, now, you know. I mean like that's yeah, I mean ethos, social media, like it's like gym talk kind of ship. Yeah, I mean there's like the whole hybrid thing between like the CrossFit like military adjacent I think there's like a there's like a certain type of person that like, uh works out in a stolen valor type of way.
I don't know in their mind. Maybe I don't know where I'm going.
With this, but uh, you know, I think there's guys, well I think there's a huge chunk of America that they're like training for something that's gonna they think might happen, and it's just never gonna happen.
You know.
It's the same thing with like the gun guys training the weapons, like they're doing like the tactical training. You know, they're buying all the gear. They're like kind of waiting for the ship to hit the fan. But yeah, now they just have to join ice ship that rarely hits the fan. Yeah, well now they have that, they have that outlet.
But it seem like it's the buff guys or the guys who are training with guns that are doing I think fitness.
Yeah, I think you could let a lot of you could waste a lot of time training.
Yeah, you know, yeah, everybody is in the movies. Everyone's buff. Now it's just like you know, the like objectively does Iron Man? Does it make sense that Tony Stark is like a jacked dude, like he's supposed to be.
It doesn't matter a scientist because at his most potent form is some jacked iron body and.
The like he's over. He's compensating for the physical realities by creating this like metal body that can encase him. It would make more sense if he was a skinny you know, you're right scientially, But instead they were like, dude, you're gonna need to spend a year get starting to look like Superman, drinking goat and mill.
If he was in the suit all the time, he would have almost no muscle mass point Yeah, yeah, because like he wouldn't be using his muscles.
Yeah, it would be amazing. Victory the superproduser Victor said he would have Elon Musk's body type. Amazing damn I god fit giant Torso Jarvis a just mid section please there's I mean.
It's funny though, too, because I think we were talking about this last week about how all the leading men are just so fucking rich with everyone fucking body fat, and I'm like on gear though, yeah, I was like, but remember, like Kevin Costner was like the fucking height of it, Like in Americans, like, oh god, this guy that looks like he doesn't work out ever, and just that's the ideal.
Yeah, like he's like naturally fit enough. Okay, here's a good Google search Kevin Costner shirtless. See that would have been I'm looking at right now. He looked there's the one with the chest hair right, Oh, I mean hill him in Bull Durham.
That's like.
That's kind of like where you want to be. That's a good place to be as a guy. I mean, you could get a little more muscle, but you know my ideal body type Kevin Costner and Bull Durham. Yeah, it's like not a ton of muscle, but he's looking good.
You know. Yeah, buff doesn't work all the time. Though it's not bad.
There's a way that there's like a six pack if you're not meant to have one spiritually, it's like not good.
Yeah.
You ever seeing somebody that like works really hard to get one. Then you see it and you're like, did not expect you to have that? And I don't know if I feel.
Comfortable with it? What the fuck? What do you do?
You know what I'm saying, You're at the end of the beach and it's like a really pasty dude. It almost looks he has a photoshopped set of abs on.
It's creepy. Yeah, that's Jack. I'm just looking the photoshopped as well. You tape the photo on your stomach. But I'm just remembering the Kevin Costner swimming in a in Robin Hood. He's like taking a bath in a waterfall. And that is the reverse of the Iron Man, where it's like, wait, this doesn't make sense that he would be this Jack. It's he's like supposed to be the fucking hottestitude ever. He's like getting out of a shower, out of you know, the equivalent, the Robinhood equivalent of
the shower, which is a waterfall. And like Maid Marian is like visibly being like, oh god, I'm looking at this. D Yeah, dude, how are you gonna say that? He looks like, you know, this is normal, looks like regular. Yeah. Yeah, he's like extra regular, extra me Robin Hood bringing back extra regular. Yeah. Oh wow, was this ass out in the movie? His asses out, remember, and he has tand lines. I know. Yeah, I guess.
The sun is strong out there in Sherwood for us. All right, we're gonna, we're gonna, you got there. I imagine this is normal saddle show. But yeah, yeah, this is about so yeah Kevin Costs and.
Our shirtless Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about Oija. We'll be right back, and we're back. We're back. And uh. You did a couple episodes on WIGE Awards, yes a year ago or so and then a more recent one where you cover the phenomenon of Zozo and Zaza.
Who I mean, it's funny, it's it is funny. The aren't The episodes aren't funny, they're scary, but they are spooky.
I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen to those things. It's kind of like, he reminds me, have you ever been in a meeting where like someone zoom bombs it, like usually a teenager fuck you, like just as the worst thing they could think of in that That's really funny though.
That's like such a twenty twenty kind of It was a real zoom bombing.
It was a it was a real pandemic thing. Yeah, and that kind of feels like, what's happening. It's like these two malevolent spirits that keep and so here. The thing that is creepy about it is that you're taught you the format of your shows. You talk to people who they then tell their story of this thing that resists sort of explanation happening to them, and so it's like almost an oral tradition. You get to hear the
story from them. It adds a real like layer of like I don't know that's this is like it's hard to deny when people are like, yeah, so like I was in high school, like this is the weird shit that I was doing, and then like this thing started happening.
And in this case that like people were fucking around with Wiji boards and like they started having these like really dark messages come through and it was Zozo in the episodes from last year was like what they kept it kept going zo zo zo and like they they didn't realize it at the time, but like you do the research and this is a there's a trend across people who fuck around with Wigi boards of like this specific thing happened.
Oh and Zaza is like a common Ouiji board.
It's like a very common thing, very common. There's like a movie called I Am Zozo that I think is like not very well reviewed. I think it's like a thirteen percent rotten tomato situation, but a classic. But yeah, this is like a massive thing, and you know, I had heard of it, Like I I think I had heard of like the concept just from being on the internet or something. But it's totally something that I would completely laugh at and not want to do on the show.
Yeah, I think you were consciously making up names. Those would not be the names you came in.
Sounds like a big name that like a thirteen year old girl she's like to write a horror movie for the first time, like a like.
A five year old that lies a lot.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, but it is weird, And yeah, I started getting a lot of emails about it, and then you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing had like really intense stories that involve this, and apparently it's really common for something to kind of like take over on the board and identify itself by this name.
And yeah, I guess that was.
Like where it turned for me, is when I was starting to talk to people who like weren't aware that this is a phenomena that's known, and even things that kind of like happened before the anybody was talking about this at all on the internet.
Yeah, so my read like heading in was more like I think weedi words are super interesting because I do think like they're you know, like like skeptics will be like, oh, it's just like people you know, moving the thing on purpose, and I tend to think it's like more they're moving it and don't realize they're doing it, and so this like part of them is being expressed that they don't have access to or like control over, you know, like it's like a sort of YOUNGI in like some part
of and in this case, it would be like a shared unconscious because they all have the same name and like this that is associated with the same like dark energy. Yeah, which I think like that doesn't explain everything, but I do think it's easy. Like this comes up a lot on our show in reference to like the story of Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were making it up, and it's like, I don't think they were
intentionally making it up. Like I think they experienced those realities of like a bad thing like getting hit with a sound beam or being like under attack by some like invisible force that it turns out as like kind of physically impossible to have happened.
But like they I know, I'm sorry to force a detour, but they ever find a solution for that?
Was there any closure? It's not like officially, but you know, you as documents have been released the CIA themselves and and like the different departments, the Pentagon, like prior to the Trump takeover, all seemed to be like, we don't think there was any like physical basis for these attacks, and these are our organizations that would seemingly love a physical basis for an attack that they could, you know, start getting funding around.
Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it. Like I first encountered it as something that was just complete nonsense. It was like evil CIA people having like maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things to right at work. Yeah, but you know, but then I've also heard some stuff that was really compelling on the other side, Like there's I listened to it like a series where it interviewed
some people who had experienced it in a town. Isn't really intense, but anyway, you could continue with your point.
I didn't. I think that that's true. I think that they experienced harrowing things. I think I think the power of the unconscious mind is like the great underrated force of people's existence. And I think like ritual and you know, all these things that we don't really make room for officially, as like mattering in our world. In a lot of cases,
like are ways of accessing that. And I think I just think that people are like, if it's their own conscious mind, then it's like skeptic skeptic view not interesting. And I think that's actually like really interesting, Like that's kind of what's going on. But there are definitely parts of the story that would make it like impossible for that.
Like there's one part where it predicts that they're they're at like a high school movie screening on a football field, and it is like it predicts that the projector is about to go down and it does. Yeah, right, Yeah. There's a ton of stuff like that.
And I mean also the fact that in that story this occurred before this whole Zozo thing was like a trend like a decade before.
Yeah.
And then the other thing is like the basis for pooh pooing wig aboards as they say, it's like the ideo motor effect. It's like this idea that like microscopic muscle movements in a group can like guide the thing the plan chet. But and that's you know, like the idio motor effect is like a real thing. I'm pretty sure it's been like proven to exist. But if you look at the board like ZO, like Z is all the way at the end, oh is not equally the at the end on the opposite side, it's like one roller.
So I just think, like if you guys, if like like I know, people explain it away by saying like, oh, it's just sort of like in the downtime between you know, the radio motor effect spelling out a word, people just kind of like go to the side to side pattern and hit that.
I'm like, I just don't think it would hit z O or ZA for that matter. Right, it's two specifics things from each other. Yeah, it's too common. It's too common out I would expect to see other patterns of that sort. And that's sort of what I I kind of come to those conclusions a lot on the show where I'm very open to looking at it both ways, but sort of like, well, I would expect to see more, like I'm same with like the hat Man stuff right
down the hat Man stuff. The hat Man is this very common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep prolysis, but people see it not during sleep parroalysis. It's just the shadow shadow man that looks like he's wearing like a wide brimmed and sometimes he has red eyes. There's like another thing that I would have laughed at and thought was corny until I realized like how common this is.
And it's like a localized thing because I mean I've I seen it was all over the place, right, so, and that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting.
It's not just like, well, these group of kids over here SA when they're fucking around with ambient or something. It's like, no, this is it.
Oh yeah, there's that too, Yeah, the benda dryl thing. But but yeah that. And then in sleep paralysis, there's like a few common things people see. The other one is like the old Hag, which is like this woman sitting on you. And then this is sort of the same thing, but like the Mayor the night This is like the origin for the term nightmare. Is this thing sitting on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's like is it a horse? The mayor is a horse?
I think at one point it was like a horse. Yeah, kind of like demon thing. I think that's what it might have been.
Damn.
But yeah, it's a really old term. But they're like pretty much every culture has a similar thing to this, and they're all similar looking, like seeing this old woman on you or in the case of the hat man, how widespread that is. So circling back to the unconscious talk, if it was just like the human unconscious whatever that means, by the way, right, generating this, you'd expect to see
a lot more variation, especially throughout time and culture. Like I would be very, very surprised, you know, I just said that the whole the origin of the term nightmare comes from this phenomenon. You would expect going back that far that like fears would change enough.
Why would we have like why wouldn't it be uh tesla? You know, that's what we get around. We don't get around in uh on horses anymore. We get around on so like, wow, why would it still be a horse? Why would it be a guy with a big hat that like is not a style people wear anymore.
I would expect to see more like micro trends with it, if that makes sense.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, and between cultures and stuff. So yeah, that's those are the kind of things that interest me, you know. And and those two things I did laugh off at first, but then kind of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh, this is pretty interesting actually and frightening. So I don't really know what it is. It's funny that, I mean, I think it's sort of a stupid name. I wanted to think of another name for that episode besides Zaza,
Like it killed me to call it Zaza. But that's like, I don't know, I think that's interesting though, when it's a scary thing that like I'm you know, I'm I'm normally somebody that would think it's completely stupid, but the story is compelling enough that like pulls me to the other side, right, And it's kind of a goofy sounding name, but this is that I guess that makes it scarier
in a way. You're like, no, not Zaza physical well, it is like something that like you would kind of laugh at it first, you know, totally.
I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience of listening to your show, Like I remember last time You're on was kind of like I think you were just getting in to like the Them series of episodes and like I'm I'm I'm very skeptical, Like I'm I'm one of those people who like even though like Japan I'm Japanese, there's like very rich ghost like you know, spooky culture there that I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm
not seeing any of this stuff. But like in listening to your show, because I mean, like I remember when you're on Last Time, you're sort of like, I don't necessarily believe in everything or at all. It's more just like it's it's really interesting to hear these people describe these events that have happened and them experience them. Yeah, and Them one is by far one of the most fucking out there things I've ever heard in my life.
If you like, give like a you know, like a three line description of it so people kind of understand what I'm about to, like get into here.
And real quick. Before you were, before we started recording, you were had to answer a text message. I have to assume it was from one of the interdimension them.
Yeah, how do you know, I will say interesting timing. The girl from that series is visiting right now. She's in town, so I met her in person. Yeah, so by meetup man, you could look up. Yeah, maybe you'll see her walking around in the neighborhood.
Yeah, but I mean yeah, like sort of give a light breakdown, because I think it's really interesting to listen whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical, I think it's the experience of listening to it for me was very interesting.
I'm glad you liked it.
Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who is kind of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college, sees this strange looking like man in her room, almost like a ghost but not quite. She's obviously freaked out, has a lot of really strange physical sensations as well around this time, and tries to power on with her life, but is ultimately just kind of having anxiety about it
and tweaking as you would expect. So she calls her her mom in hopes that her mom will calm her down, tells her like, I saw this thing, like I'm feeling all this stuff, blah blah blah. But instead of her mom calming her down, she was like I was afraid this was going to happen, and was like, they're talking to you now.
She's like what, there we go. Yep.
But so she's like what And so her mom, you know, tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these beings for like a long time and is essentially like, come home to visit and we'll talk. And at that point she finds out that the mom and a girl from the mom's gym have been communicating with what they think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time
I forget how long. Yeah, And to make to make it stranger, this girl from the gym is the same age as soul Vi, and her and the mom have like become very close to the point where there she becomes like a third sister to them essentially.
Yeah, and like kind of gangers or like they have like a lot of between them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's like and it gets weirder from there, right, ye. But it's to me, it's all I always like that like start to the story is what locked me in early on, and especially meeting soul I I'm like, I one hundred percent believe this girl.
I mean, it's not even a question of belief. You know.
You meet her and talk to her just like she's a very straightforward person, right this clearly happened to her and she doesn't know what it is.
But that's the thing that like really fucked me up about it now, because again I was like, I'm sure there's got to be a way to explain all this, But then I was trying to look deeper as to what was pulling me in despite being so like logical, when I like when I listen to things like this, and there was something I think, because we live in this like super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now, like our current like world, this modern world, we're completely
disconnected from like you know, the land, from each other, like our history and things like that, that to hear somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in a way like sort of calls to something like that, there's something there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost on some level as human beings that even if I believe Soulvie are not hearing this person speak about these things that can't be explained, that they don't understand, is
like pulling at something I think much deeper, like in the human experience that we just completely lack now, like especially because that's what colonialism does to most people, like completely, it's those things are seen as like pagan or savage or whatever.
And the ritual and spirituality out of things, and it's just like, this is a materialist universe. Here are the laws that explain it. We know everything, no more mystery, right to work.
Exactly, And I think there's a yearning on some level that it surely just can't be all of this just tangible shit. It on some level, even if you're religious or not that like, there is something that we feel
on a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And I think that's why I really enjoy listening to the show is because even then, even if I'm like, I don't know if this actually happened, but the sensation of hearing a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether they're like very talented liars or just people who are really being very sincere, there's just something that is undeniable
that I realize. I'm like, oh, man, like there's something about it that is like I don't know, like healing, or there's a yearning that I didn't understand, like I had deep within me, which is like trying to find sort of like these sort of threads to something like that isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else has been.
In mind, I like, I really really like that reaction, And that's actually kind of like what I hope the reaction. I hope people have to the show, or was hoping
they would have. And I think it's why I like this stuff, you know, where I wasn't super into it, but I do think like when you hear some thing like that, I find it comforting in a way, like it kind of can make you feel small and like remind you that, oh, yeah, we really don't know anything still, right, and especially when like the world is crazy or your
life is crazy or anything. Just things feel out of control so often in life, you know, I think there's there's an odd comfort to h hearing the most extreme version of that and being reminded like, oh yeah, like not only is the world completely out of control, like it's always been out of control, like we don't know anything, we're just like kind of powerless, you know, And that's fine. It's comforting knowing that there are these great, great mysteries
that maybe we'll understand one day. But it's okay to not know because I mean, so I think I've served my life being a skeptic, like a real skeptic on supernatural things, and yet I wear specific hats or don't wear specific hats based on what like how a basketball team that I like has.
Performed, which is just I think to your point about powerlessness. It's like that is the thing I am completely unable to control, and so I like invent this stupid way that I can control it and like believe it with my body and not my mind. But like fully, like I'm like, fuck, I did something wrong on the right.
Well, yeah, that's what's interesting too, because I remember like a lot of people to like shows like yours or other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomenas, Like they're people who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no, this is fucking nonsense, and like I get that sort of desire. But I think that's why I like I. That's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode.
It's not me necessarily trying to figure out like where are the where are the holes in this story because like, sure, I can be very analytical about those kinds of things, but I think again, it's the idea of just that there is something we just can't explain and it's and sure, maybe it's manifesting these people saying like I'm experiencing X, Y or Z, but like even knowing someone is experiencing that, there's something like intoxicating about it too, And I think
maybe that could just be because I've been I'm such a deep skeptic about stuff like this where I find myself not having to be like does this confirm my
beliefs or does it completely blow them up? I'm like finding this middle thing, which is like, no, man, like there's something just much deeper, even if it's about like it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut ourselves off to something that like I'm trying to figure out how to reconnect to and not in like a magical way, but just something that's a little bit more outside of what is you know, sort of academically described.
Yeah, no, absolutely, And I will say this, like, well, first of all, as the host of the show and somebody who wants people to just be able to like listen and relax and like not being able to not try to disprove everything. It is obviously frustrating, like that type of person who's like wants to quickly disprove things.
But I will also say that, like a lot of this stuff even if you don't like believe it all the way, like a lot of times, like I don't have a way to disprove it, and I try, right, A lot of people are comfortable disproving something by just like saying some bullshit and being okay with it not being complete.
Right. A lot of the ways.
People disprove these things is just like throwing out some fucking stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a podcast one time and just being like, oh, it's like this effect, you know, yeah, like I heard about that one time. It's like all right, And then if you really, if you really apply it and like pick it through, it doesn't make sense, Like it wouldn't hold up in court, right, Like you couldn't if you actually had to disprove it, like up to the standards of like a jury, you know,
that would not work. Often times, there's all sorts of weird little things people toss around, like mold the person had like black mold in their house. Maybe maybe it was black mold in their house.
That's just like, right, there's the fact that even someone is experiencing the world like that.
I think it's just very Yeah, I.
Would still be interested, but yeah, I mean there's things like that that get tossed around as if we even fully understand those and Jack not to I'm not picking on you at all. I do this too, but like, uh, I hear a lot about people saying like, oh, it's just their unconscious playing tricks on them. It's like, well, dude, that's not even we don't even know what the unconscious mind is yet or the limitations of it. So it's like that doesn't really I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever.
That gets tossed around a lot. It's like, well, we don't know the function, the complete functions of the unconscious mind, how it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal. There's people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah, I think that it could come from somewhere else. That opens things up, that opens the floodgates. Yeah, So it's like young believe that there was like a shared just that we like had access to that exactly.
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of my interest in it is that it's so unknown and.
Which is just as magical the concept of shared unconscious and then how then going about to sort of bring all that to it.
Yeah, it's one of those things where like, uh, it's sort of like the one oh one level is being the Reddit atheist who just is like, oh, it's all fake. But when you kind of like dig deeper, you kind of like come out through the other side. At one point you could kind of like keep digging through to the other side over and over again with this stuff,
which is interesting. But yeah, like unconscious stuff, I mean even bringing it back to the Wuiji board, it's like if it is everybody's unconscious, like they're the movement on the plan chet kind of like reaching this flow state like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the key to unlocking it, right.
Yeah.
The people who create like basically popularize the weedge aboard and like they don't actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore. But like that era, that era of time is like what birth this like the talking board. But yeah, those people that believe at one hundred percent would say that that is the key, like the group working together and that shared exactly.
I think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah, it's it's cool.
I mean the longer you think about it, the more.
You scratch your head with this stuff. Yeah. Two of the characters like predict using Luigi like predict the day, the exact day that like when or the you know, Zozo predicts the exact day that their boyfriends are both going to break up with them, And I thought that was funny, so wild.
I forgot this either way, it's so interesting. I forget if it made it into the episode or not. But when she told me that, I was like, do you think there's a chance that you guys just broke up with you because you were addicted to playing with.
The right We're so obsessed with it, But like that is what I think. It's like a drug where you're like connecting with this thing in a way it is not available to you in any other way. So like what whether it's something outside or inside, I think it's you know, powerful and interesting. I'm way more powerful than anybody is anyone who's doing it, like being like it's
just their unconscious mind making playing tricks. On them that yeah, it's not dismissive like that actually makes it more interesting to me, I think.
Yeah, But with the Them series, people want clean answers. There's a certain type of person that would want like a clear answer to that, and they go looking for it. I wanted to disprove that one I'm not disproven. I thought I was going to that confident I would find something. I would like turn over enough stones that I would find clue, right like, but I have not really even formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost,
which is so spooky to me. And uh, yeah, I don't know, that's what I mean, say, with the people in it, they don't really know what it is.
Whether I think that's why I like even just like I would have when I was listening to them, like
I can't wait to hear what the answer is. But then again, as again, like the sensation of listening to it isn't necessarily that I'm thinking of it, like logically, it's more I'm I think it's because because I'm skeptical that part of that, like there's a certain cynicism that comes along with that, not that it's like bad or anything, but this helped thaw that a bit and was just maybe it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I could just go, well, we don't know everything, and that's
interesting and I like it and I'll keep it there. It's not I'm not going up calling my mom and be like, yo, mom, we got to get right with these interdimensional beings. I don't know if you hear the clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth, And I think that.
Sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the experience of listening to the show is like the we used to only learn and pass information on via the oral tradition, and like that is learning like hearing things as people experience them through their experience, and like that's what I think is so powerful about the show is that like it's reconnecting you with like that way of experiencing these things that you know, we we were just like, yeah,
but written tradition better, and it's like, no, you're cutting out a whole, very compelling way of learning about human experience.
Yeah, And I think like to kind of close out the whole skepticism thing, you know, people who believe that there is explanations for everything. It's just we simply don't. I would be I would love to know if we did have an explanation, Like, let's just say for ghosts. Like people, there are people who legitimately believe that, like ghosts have been disproved and like like whether it's infrasound
or you know, mold poisoning or something. There are people who think that's like case closed, this is what it is. It's just simply not the case. And what I always say in terms of that is like, if there really was some way to make a person see a ghost, I would love to know. I would love to patent that. Should you imagine the haunted house you could do? Can
you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract? If I figured out, like there's a sound frequency I could play to like vibrate somebody's brain in a way that they see a ghost. All right, I'm patenting that you won't you won't have the podcast again, bro, I'll be James.
Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studio. Absolutely, yeah, let's take a quick break, we'll come back. We'll be right back. Sure, and we're back, We're and real quick, it is the week of Halloween. I am just curious that's somebody who you know, you've connected with all these Oh, by the way, we were talking about stupid names. I did just want to say pazuzu, which is like an ancient It sounds like a gen Z slang for possessed.
It sounds like a gen Z person being like I got pazzuz Yeah.
But yeah, that's like people think that is always like maybe that means yeah.
Yeah, or like close to the movie BJ's Brewer, like, hey, have you guys had our PiZZ before for dessert?
It's called a pazzuki in the day. But I do feel like Halloween is a time when us culture, like this version of the zeitgeist, gets to devote energy toward living with that like different very you know, allowing those energies to kind of come out a little bit. And yeah, I feel like there's the skeptical thing that's like there's just a chance to get drunk or dress up or whatever.
But like, first of all, just connecting with the unconscious through mask play is like a very interesting form of therapy, and you know a thing that I think there are interesting ways to take that what the skeptical people are talking about and be like that that's actually really interesting that just by wearing a mask, you like change how you experienced reality in such a way that you like
almost become a different person. But I'm just curious as somebody who has experienced all these stories and like done all this reporting, Like what are your thoughts on Halloween? Like, on do you think there are any icons of Halloween they are like particularly like powerful sort of pop cultural wore cruxes, you know what I mean, Like.
Uhh, I mean no, Personally, I mean like I am just kind of like I think it's just because my work, so I'm so desensitized, you know. I think it's like the way doctors like don't get freaked out by blood at a certain point or bodies or you know, when you like don't want to get naked in front of your doctor for a physical and your friends like, oh, it's just skinned to them, Like they don't they even like see you as naked. They don't give a fuck.
Like I think like I've developed that kind of like callousness towards this material, like it doesn't scare me anymore.
Yeah, I'm not trying to sound like a badass or whatever. But like, so, what do you do like Halloween?
You just be just being like, hey, none of this matters. I know I should probably this is like not a fun answer. I should have just lied and uh told you that I'm the biggest Halloween fan or whatever. But no, it's become you know, it's interesting. I love Halloween. I always have loved Halloween, but now I'm during this month, I'm so focused on like making the episodes the best they can that like, I don't have a costume, Like I don't really have any major plans. This is my
busy month now. Yeah, I will go on as you for Halloween.
You're an icon of oh cult ship.
Boring costume though or in costume, But I will say, uh, in terms of iconography, I mean the Wija board scares me. Yeah, I think that's like a weird thing. I I and a lot you know people put it. You know, there's like horror fans who like put them on their wall or whatever like that kind of freak. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't even keep one in my house. I'm just gonna be honest with you. That type of stuff. I just like wouldn't do it. I don't know.
Wait, what's a list of things you wouldn't you wouldn't keep in your house based on everything you've encountered. Now, so ouiji board, don't bring that, not don't leave that here? Are good though, right, that's just a Hasbro toy.
That's fine. Most of the answers are nonsense.
I don't know, like I think, I think everybody's different. I'll just say that everybody's different, and like if something freaks you out or freaks me out or unsettles me, like I wouldn't keep it in my house, if that makes sense. Like some I host the show, so I I'm given stuff, I get stuff. There's like there's things that just kind of like unsettle me. Like I I
think I was like designing merch or something. So I went to one of those like brew Harria stores or whatever that you see in La where it's like they sell all the witchcraft stuff and they sell like weird Jesus statues and like dragons, and you could.
Buy like a love spell.
I remember buying like all the weird like love spells or like the colone that you spray and can make you rich. There are a couple of those that kind of like freaked me out, just like the vibes, So I think.
I got rid of that a little too powerful. I feel like.
That's sort of my guidelines, is like if it's something that's you know, I look at it as more like personal but objectively. I don't know if there's like any objective things that I think.
No, I mean that they're bad. Yeah.
I think that's what's so interesting about like the paranormal is that it it speaks to everyone differently, Like whereas like any ghosts right here, I'm like, yeah, whatever, and then someone's like inter dimensional being how I'm like, uh huh.
Yeah, Yeah.
I think intentions matter a lot. I know my answer kind of sounds like a cop out or some shit. I'm just like making up off the fly. But I think intentions do matter, just based on like what I hear on the show. I think like your own like vibes for backup lack of a better word, have like a big play on things, you know, So if it's if it's impacting you, it might impact your home, you know, and vice versa. Yeah, and like people, there's there's too
long of a story. But somebody I know had a cursed family ring, like multi generational curse, and like things were happening related to the ring. It was an engagement ring that made them think it was still cursed. And she came to me asking like, hey, do anybody that could uncurse the ring? And I was like, no, I do not, I do not know.
I'm sorry. Who are headed to Mount Doom right now? Yeah?
Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, give them, give them some some bread and cheese and they could take it, take it along with them, two for one.
But this was a friend.
Her name's Rosie by the way, she's been on the show. But yeah, I mean when somebody she was serious and I wanted to give a serious answer, and I didn't have an answer for her. But what I actually believed in when I told her was I was like, you know, obviously your research around and find somebody to do this, but you should go with like whatever you think would uncurse it, right, Like, if you think that's a Catholic priest,
you should go to a Catholic priest. If you think it's going to be some spooky which lady in the valley, go there, right if you want a vale Yeah, like a monk whatever, if you think you should sage it, do that, Like I think whatever you believe the most you know, right right right, That's.
The most powerful is like your own intent.
Yeah, if you're if you're going into it thinking like this is not going to work. I think it's not gonna work.
See Jack, that's why you wear the Sixers hat man. That's right, and it works every time. That's why they're so good. Jack Wagner, is such a pleasure having you. Thank you for coming on at this spookiest time of year when you're working on making the show, making amazing episodes of the shows. Where can people find you and follow you?
Other World is the name of the show. We are available anywhere you get your podcast. I suppose recently started uploading episodes to YouTube finally, So actually, if you are listening right now, would actually be very helpful if you went and subscribed to the YouTube, which I think is called Other World Pod on YouTube. But just find it. We've had a cool visualizer made for it, so dope. But yeah, that's where you can find me.
Their work of media that you've been able to come up with, that you've been enjoying. Oh fuck, I don't know if I have a good answer for this. Is there a horror movie that you enjoy particularly?
I haven't seen a good one this year. I've I'm so lacking in movies. The last TV show I watched was The Pit.
Do you guys watch that? Yeah? Yeah, great TV? Yeah, wullet Proof. I uh we started watching it, but uh my wife is a physician, and it was just like, no, just work for her. Yeah, she's just like this is like this, I might have to go back and watch er. Yeah, I've never seen it. Yeah, that's that's what I've heard that people like who completed were just like I need more of this and went back.
Yeah, I can't. That can be my recommendation. I can't recommend an any winning show everybody.
That's fine. What else?
What do people normally recommend that it's we've had The Pit recommended before.
Yeah, people just say like what they're literally watching right now, even if it's not interesting, just kind of giving people a glimpse into like whatever media they're consuming right now.
But again, totally up to you.
I'm consuming, dude, the show consumes me sadly. So I'm gonna plug my own show all the world, and I'll plug your show. Yeah, people out there and the Dodgers and the Dodgers, how about them? Miles Where can people find you as their working media you've been enjoying?
Yeah, find me everywhere at miles of Gray. Catch me talking about I need a fan on four to twenty day Fiance cashm rooting for the Dodgers, just within earshot.
Of Dodger Stadium, screaming like a fucking demon.
And let's see a post I like actually from blue Sky at Internet, hippot at skuy at social posted They're going to change the clocks this weekend and the president is powerless to stop it because he's weak and a loser.
That's what they're saying, sir, that is a Blue Sky post. I've ever heard one. Let's see I like to tweet from Eli Crumbendahl, who tweeted, Unfortunately, my nervous system can't tell the difference between needing to answer some emails and being wanted for murder. That is how I experienced my life. You can find me on Twitter at jack underscorel Brian jack ob One on blue Sky. You can find us on Twitter and blue Sky at Daily zeikeistre ad The
Daily Zeikeist on Instagram. You can go to the description of this episode wherever you're listening to it, and they're at the bottom, you will find the footnote foot there's where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy, because is there a song that you think that people might enjoy? Yes, yes, yes, just more.
Look, I'm playing Ghost of Yote and my favorite thing right now to dud just instrumental hip hop. I play on my spot built in Spotify, So I changed the soundtrack so it's kind of like Samurai Champlou.
But I've been listening to the mad.
Lib Blue Note record album that he did Shades of Blue mad Lib Invades Blue Note h and I just want to go out on a track just a mad Lib is like one of the best sample based producers out there.
This one's called Distant Land by mad Lib. All right, we will link off to that in the footnote. For Daily is the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit Yeah Heart Radio ap Apple podcast. Wherever you listen to your favorite shows, that's going to do it for us. This morning, we're back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to you all then, Bye bye.
The Daily Zeit Guys is executive produced by Catherine Long, co produced by Bay Wang.
Co produced by Victor Wright, co written by J. M mcnapp, Edited and engineered by Justin Conner m