You're listening to Comedy CENTRALOW.
What's up Ere's edition listener, it's Roy Wood jun your correspondent for The Daily Show. You're about to hear an episode of one of our original Daily Show podcasts, Beyond the Scenes, hosted by me. It's the show where we dive deep into segments and topics from the show with the show's writers, producers and experts. In this episode, I'm joined by Daily Show correspondent Michael Costa and La Thieves Call of Duty player Sam Octane LaRue to dive deeper
into the world of esports. We talk about how professional competitive gaming compares to traditional sports, gamers' ability to make up to six figure salaries, and the growth and celebrity investment in the games. Take a listen, and if you like the show, check out the Beyond the Scenes podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the Daily Show podcast that goes a little deper into segments and topics that are originally aired on the show.
Look this, I got to think about this podcast. If The Daily Show is a salad, then we're the toppings that make you want to eat that salad. The crew toons, the grilled chicken, the seas of salad dressing or frenchi Bosama, vindagarretta, whatever the hell you prefer. We all know that Honeymuster is the champ. We got it for you. We're diving into the world of esports today. Based on a segment
from Daily Show correspondent Michael Costa. This segment took a deeper dive into the growing professional gaming industry roll my clip.
Competitive video gaming, known as esports is booming.
There's even a training center with five training rooms and six locker rooms.
The Olympics are considering adding esports.
I went to California to a so called training center in someone's garage to talk with these athletes about why video games isn't a sport. What the hell is this? This was the Alienware training facility for esports Team Lick, complete with scrimmage stations, a war room, pr department, a team coach, and even an in house chef. The team star, whose name is Taco, was acquired from Brazil's top team.
This is our real sport.
You call yourself an athlete?
Yes, of course, to compete, we go to tournaments, we travel a lot, we got some money.
What does an East sport athlete, mister taco, do every day just practice? Yeah, I have a former professional tennis player. That's what I would call a real sport. There was an opponent and you would relish the opportunity to defeat them with your racket. What do you actually have to show for what you're doing?
And come on, I have a really strong finger finger, yes, this finger. I were killed at least one million people.
That finger's killed one million people at least.
He'll break this down a little bit more for us. I am joined by my fellow Daily Show correspondent and Michigander, Michiander.
Michigander was right. Trust your instincts you.
Had, Okay, yeah, Michigander, And I'm going to learn from you what you learned about making this segment.
Costa.
How you doing, I'm good man, thanks for having me. And it feels odd to even be called in on this piece because I was such a skeptic going in and uh now.
I'm like, how professional? So you got any sports?
I mean I never you know, I grew up with sports. Not what's this e? Why is there? Why is there a vowel in front of it? Now? So, but I was really impressed and turned the corner, so to speak. But obviously your other guests can really talk about the sports.
Yeah, and that other guest is a Call of Duty player for the La Thes.
Sam Octane LaRue Sam. How you doing?
What's going on?
Guys?
I'm glad that we um glad we converge you, Michael.
I like that.
That's that's got. I know you were a skeptic before him, and see that's just it's good one at a time.
I like that.
Yeah, I was a reluctant convert.
Want you in the first place? Okay, Yeah, I.
Was reluctant and you won me over. So that's that's a testament to how fun this can be.
I like that.
Are you a video game guy at all? Or or not? None at all? Nothing?
Ever? Since the controller had more than the A and B button.
Lord, are you serious about even a Sega genesis?
I mean, Roy, I remember walking into you and Ronnie's office and you guys would be playing whatever, and I was just like, this looks cool, but I am so intimidated.
Oh yeah, where they didn't need us?
Oh yeah, okay, I set.
Up, like to see where we're starting here?
Well, and I don't want to jump ahead. But when I said about the piece, and I guess this is how I got converted. I like watching anybody try to compete and perform under pressure, and once you realize that esports that's all, that's what it is. That's fun. That's fun for me.
That's how I am about most things. If I know someone's going to be disappointed in crying at the end type of confrontation, it's usually my cup.
At two. I can't even watch.
Chopped Kids, Sam, let's start with that e in front of the sports. You know, describe that world to us and tell us how long you've been a professional game?
Oh man, we're summarizing esports. Okay.
Competitive video gaming is something that is well used to be extremely taboo. I'm happy, you know, Michael is perfect example here that it's a little bit more mainstream than it used to be for sure, But like I said, it was, it was taboo years ago and.
The older generation of just most people in general.
Whenever you say that you play video games for a living, or you know, whenever I get into an uber and they're asked where I'm going, what I'm doing, and I tell them, the usual reaction is, oh, my my kid plays video games.
Or oh, how do you do that?
And it's a very misunderstood topic, I could say. So I'm happy to see the progrection that it's made over the last couple of years, because video games has a well, at least used to have a pretty rough stigma around it, you know, people being lazy.
It wasn't a productive thing to do with your.
Time, and then you blind it ruined your television exactly.
You couldn't you couldn't make a living off of it. It was just a huge time sink. And I'm happy that the outlook on esports and video games in general, like I said, has changed over the last couple of years. But it's just competing at the highest level, and whatever chosen video game you would like mine happens to be called duty. But there's countless out there.
The way I've tried to explain it to people is that it's really not that different than going to a video game arcade back in the day, and you and five or six different guys would all try to get the high score on whatever the hell, pac Man, Galaga, whatever. You're just doing that online. The only scope of knowledge that I had of esports growing up was Madden, you know, you know, I went to college at a place where people would play Madden for money in the dorm, in
the you know, in the TV whatever. And then eventually at some point ESPN had like a Madden League. They used to come on at like four in the afternoons on ESPN five or some shit, and I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense because I've seen people do that here. But then once it got into like the bigger world of like all of these role playing games in the first person shooters, I'm like, well, how where's the money coming from with that? Like, how does the money flow
from that? Because this is being broadcast on Twitch and the internet, and I'm assuming it's no different than a broadcast network where you turn you advertised all of the eyeballs.
Right exactly.
It's very it's very similar to traditional esports, and at least my neck of the woods, I play in a franchise league, so similar to an NFL or an MLB. It's a city based franchise league. I obviously play for the Los Angeles team. So there are ways to compare it to traditional esports to help people kind of figure out how to navigate the waters, But it's definitely a little tricky because, like you said, people don't know where
the money is coming from. And you hear these absurd figures like and there's a game called Doda and they're like basically their super Bowl.
It was a forty million dollar tournament.
So people are very reluctant and very confused when they hear the numbers being thrown around. Like I said, it's because it was so taboo years ago. The transition of like trying to understand the landscape is a little bit challenging for people at times. For sure, it's a little forty million dollars is a little different than mad in your dorm for sure.
I don't know they was fighting in them dorms.
Competition is probably about the same.
Yeah, how do you how do you get into this? Because this is one of them careers that now like do you feel like Costa like at this point, like, ah, why did the teacher tell me about this shit when I was in the third grade? Out it stuck with that Sega genesis? How do you get into this world? Like how do you even make a team? Like are you so good at call of duty as an individual that you get a call Is it like the Matrix? Do someone knocked at your door and say follow the
white Rabbit? Like, how do you get pulled deeper and deeper into this and then see it as a viable career path.
So I think I'm very confident. I could say that like ninety five percent of people start out as a casual video game player because they're doing it, whether it be for fun or it's just a game that they enjoy. In general, I think there are very very few cases where people actually just start playing and want to play competitively immediately. In my case, I just loved playing Call of Duty and loved playing video games my entire life.
I've been playing since I could hold a controller essentially, and I kind of tripped and fell into a career. To be honest with you, I was playing recreationally, like I said, and I had met some friends online that introduced me to the world of competitive Call of Duty. I didn't even know it existed when I was playing. I was kind of just in my own little bubble
wasting time essentially in high school. And my friend at the time, like I said, that I met online, he wanted to travel to this event and it was so strange to me, And you know, I was like sixteen, and I didn't even know if I was good. But you know, when I'm sixteen years old, traveling across the country to play at video game event just sounds like
a great idea. So naturally I did it. I begged my parents, and I don't know why they let me do it, but they did so shout out to them, and I kind of just tripped and fell in love with it. It was it was completely accidental, and I think that's honestly the best case scenario because it's, you know, my my livelihood today.
Roy and the piece, I interviewed Rick Fox, former Lakers.
Champion Fox the hell is he doing there?
Well? Exactly, So this is I'm.
Sure, I mean no disrespect to Rick Fox. Some of them to beat my ass.
Well. And I remember when we were pre producing the piece, I think one of my questions was, can we get excuse me, Sam, I'm just gonna speak frankly, I say, can we get a real athlete that maybe has got into esports, because I don't want to sit with an athlete. I want to sit with someone that like whatever whatever the tournament. But man, there was something really powerful about a guy wearing his Lakers World Championship ring.
It's easier, it's easier to connect with it.
It's easier for me to connect with for certainly, what are you doing with these nerds?
Man?
You're a real athlete and so are they. What the shit are you talking about? I mean you we played real sports. You know, you can see our balls in our pants when we played.
In our error.
I think there was no shame around pursuing a career in professional sports because you could get a scholarship to college, which, by the way, you can get as an esport player. Now there's a number of colleges that are building esports arenas on their campuses.
This is all great, but let's get down to brass tacks here. How much do these athletes make?
Probably the best top layer in the world in one of our games, he makes probably eight hundred.
Dozen what And he talked about how I think he has a son, or maybe he was talking about one of his players, I don't know, but their parents were like, stop playing video games, you know, go outside, go outside and play. And then one of his athletes had just signed like a three million dollar contract. And it is very funny because my mom. I mean we played Super Mario, we played you know, my mom, get outside, you know, I'll give you an hour of video game time if you go outside.
All yes, you know.
And it's really like, yeah, my mom, you really blew my financial opportunities, and I blow my mom to this day.
Your mom's the reason you're not a professional sports player.
Right.
Okay, so constant staying in that lane. What were some of the other like similarities and differences between like traditional sports and esports. Are they getting time outs? Are they getting water breaks between every round? Like do you have a corner man?
Get them rocking?
Yeah. We went to Team Liquid's training facility in Santa Monica, and when I walked in, okay, quickly about me. I played minor league, professional tennis, dedicated much of my life to tennis. Never got to the highest level in tennis that I wanted to. But I walked into Team Liquid's training facility and I said, this is a tennis academy. I mean, there was a chef who cooked this lunch.
There was a training facility. There was a breakdown room where you would where you'd break down video, watch footage, watch footage. They had mental coaches, maybe the wrong word. On staff, they had lots and lots of people whose job it was to facilitate and make sure the athletes were ready to compete. And as soon as I walked in the door, I just had this feeling of like, oh shit, I got to go put my tennis shoes on and go practice. It just felt like that. So there was a lot of similarities.
So Sam, in that world, I would assume that dive and sleep help your mental acuity, which makes you quicker and more analytical. What is the typical training day? Like, I'm not going to say you don't need to be physically fit. I feel like you do.
It helps. I've been on both sides of the spectrum of physically fit and not physically fit.
Well, competing it definitely helps.
How does that text your body?
So it's it's much more mental it. Don't get me wrong, you were I'm not going to sit here and pretend that we go through the physical strain that.
And I'm not gonna be I'm not going to agree with naturally.
I would love to do a.
Side by side cholesterol or blood pressure test of an athlete versus we.
Could run a forty right now and we'll see how it goes.
Nope, but still sitting in a chair, because I've noticed them game costa.
You ever said one of them game and chairs.
They are outrageous.
They are kind of ugly, but so comfortable.
They're not comfortable. They're not I actually prefer the officehare.
So anyway, Uh so, I guess that's all it's it's essentially all mental. Obviously, being in better physical shape is just better for your life in general, and that impacts all aspects of your life, not just video games. But to Michael's point, how he mentioned the infrastructure behind team like facilities and all that, that's that's pretty much the
standard throughout the majority of Tier one esports. That's when you talk about League of Legends or or Dote or counter Strike, Call Duty, all these things, that is the the standard. We have a chef as well, we have
mental performance coaches, we have all these things. And I think that that's another thing that people really can gravitate towards and understanding, because when you know, you watch these videos of like behind the scenes of I don't know, the charters, uh, facilities, You'll you'll see like their locker room, you'll see where they watch their their game film or vote for for us, you'll see where the chef prepares their meals.
It's it's a it's a one to one comparison.
So I think that that's another thing that can help bring people, uh towards esports in an easier light and too to your point, Roy, Uh, it's it's all mental. It's it's ninety five to five, I would say, in terms of of mental and that's arguably worse because you can become your own worst enemy pretty quickly because uh, it's it's very performance based. And obviously you know traditional sports are as well, but you can get hurt and you can go out for the season, and that's.
Not really I mean, it's not your fault.
That's just an unfortunate circumstance, whereas in esports it's entirely on your performance and there's really bar like a even circumstance. There's no excuse. It's you either played well or you played poorly, and there's no.
Not like the defense sucked but I did my job.
It's not like it's not like I threw for four hundred yards and three touchdowns, but my defense let up you know, forty points. It's like I went out and I either helped my team win or I helped my team lose.
So there are very strong Uh yeah, very primal health for sure.
Are you guys drug tested? Is not a joke? I mean, if it's that mentally straining. Yeah, there's all types of legal, illegal, focused drugs, and I know there's stories in the NFL of there being bags of greenies that guys popping there, you know, before halftime. That keeps them focus, keeps them energized amphetamines. So we are for real?
Is that?
Yeah? Tell me please talk to what we are?
Drug testing? Okay, that was something that came with the uh the CDL. When we started franchising a couple of years ago. Before that, it was kind of the wild wild West and you could do what you want and it was like a tough It was just there wasn't enough money for it. Because drug testing don't I didn't
even know this. It's extremely expensive to do. So once the CDL hit and there was a large influx of money and millions and millions of dollars, the league's drug policy and just the franchising in general really cracked down. And now there's it ties for everything under the sun and.
When you say cdo we're talking about the call of doing the league. Okay, now what are you old drug testing for? What are the prohibitor of the substances?
Everything else?
No weed, I mean the big one's cocaine, heroin. I'm sure crack is frowns, none of none of it.
You could have a legal prescription for adderall.
Yeah, so there's things called tee east. I think it's therapeutic use exemption is the acronym. And there are people in the league. I have friends of mine that can vouch for this as well. When you have ADHD, it is very hard to actually just function as a person without uh, you know, adderall or whatever you're on, because you need to come back to zero. It's it's not or come back to one hundred, whatever it may be. It's not like you're taking it to be better. It's
taking it to be like a neutral. So there are cases like that, which I like I said, I have very close friends that are like that as well. So there are you have to go to a doctor, you have to go through the process to be like, look, are you trying to do this because you need it or are you trying to do this to get a competitive edge. So you see, the held does a phenomenal job on making sure that that line is correct and there's no one pushing the boundary.
Now to that point.
After the break, I want to talk exactly about that a little deeper, because I want to talk about the mental health implications of what you've already kind of alluded to. Putting pressure on yourself and knowing it's your fault that you sucked to David, and how do you unpack that and if you need to address that pharmaceutically, what does the league do to help And just I just want to talk about the mental health implications of what your
job because it seems stressful. In any job that's stressful, there is definitely appeal that could help you with it, and I want to talk about that a little bit more after the break.
This will be on the scenes. We'll be right back Sam.
You know we left talking about your practice schedule and everything that goes into preparing. First off, like in hours, how long are you doing this? Like if football, Yeah, if football is like nine to six with two a days and a break in the afternoon from aside.
You know you want a full schedule breakdown.
Well not a full schedule breakdown, but just from sun up to sundown? How long are you holding a video game controller?
Between ten to thirteen hours?
Fourteen hours?
Shit?
You crazy? A day?
Yeah?
How many days a week do you get thoty Saturday off late, six six days at thirteen?
Is that?
And that's that's a me thing. That's a that's not the standard.
There are there's plus in mindus obviously, but if you want to win, you gotta put the hours in it because if you're not gonna do it, then someone else will.
So I've been around the block. I've been playing for you know.
Eight years at this point, nine years, so I understand what it takes to win, and I've won a lot. So it's it's a lot of a lot of trial and area throughout my career to find the spot where I know that I'm putting in the work required to win. And right now it's about that time.
Are you playing Call of Duty? Or are you working on a specific exercise to improve a specific part of your game?
So you guys asked me if if it's controller held the entire time, and it's not, it's probably it's it's probably like eight hours of playing and then the rest is either vo review on the day, talking with coaches or my team to figure out, you know, plans or strategies for the next scrims, or talking in general about practice and improvement, whether that be game planning for matches that are upcoming, or if we're traveling, talking about our
schedule and bracket and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I mean, for the actual the schedule throughout the day, we practice from eleven am to give or take six pm. Those are two scrim blocks per day with a break in the middle scrimmage scrimmages. Yes, okay, I guess other teams she had two of those a day with a break in the middle obviously for you know, lunch, and we'll talk about the game plan, if we're we're doing things properly, if we're addressing issues that we want to
talk about for that day. And then afterwards, when you get home, I'll usually stream on Twitch, and then that's kind of the extra time. I mean, I'll stream for four to five hours per night, and I'm also playing cod during that time as well, so it's the the overtime essentially that kind of pushes those hours.
Really, do you ever have fun do you ever just go today.
No, it's really fun.
It's you know, it's a cliche, but if you like your job, you know you're not gonna work a day.
And because you was in work voice just now that was a work octavity.
Well, you know, you got to train and then you study the other team strategies and you figure.
Yeah, it's I mean, it's video games, man.
It at the end of the day, it is my job and it is how I make a living, but it is video games at the same time, so I have a ton of fun doing it. It's competing, and obviously competition is great. If you're losing all the time, competition is probably not that great U. But yeah, I mean it's it's video games, man. It cannot be fun.
This This is where I appreciate traditional sports and that you cannot play that many hours. You know, you even in tennis, even at our even at our even at our most high training of two a days in college where it was two and a half in the morning, two in the afternoon. I mean the last the second half of that second workout is basically just feel horrible. Well, it's just it's it's counterproductive. You're just you know, you're out of Yeah, you're out of You're out of energy.
So chalk went up for the traditional sport that I didn't have to play tennis twelve hours and then go home and twitch my serf.
So you know what I mean.
Man, That's where the boundary of the physical and the mental comes up for sure, because it's mental burnout, whereas in the physical or traditional sports obviously physical burnout.
Okay, so then let's talk about the mental burnout of that. Have you ever been impacted by that? Like, have you ever felt that level of just I'm spent?
Yes, definitely have. Uh So, when I was young, I went pro at eighteen years old. I was playing obviously long before then. I was just excited to be playing
the game. I mental health wasn't something that I was really focused on because I never had impacted me essentially, and up until I would say, like two years ago, it was the first time where I had really noticed the decline and I didn't really take the proper start beforehand, and I didn't have like the warning signs of myself to have the self awareness to stop that from happening.
So I was on a different team a couple of years ago, going through a pretty rough stint in terms of like placings and just team performance overall, and it got pretty dark. I was contemplating like retirement. I didn't know where my career was going to take me. I didn't know if I was even capable of playing anymore. So that's the self doubt had definitely crept in. And like I said, since I didn't really have any prior experience with dealing with mental health issues.
It kind of all hit me like a truck and it was.
It was definitely something that I had to navigate being an adult and trying to figure out how to just get out of that headspace. That's where, Michael, when you mentioned the team liquid thing, like the mental performance coaches come in. We had one that was phenomenal with one hundred thieves or LA Thieves or.
So.
The team understands that and they've made space for that within their facilities for you all to have that, the same as the chef, the same as the messues.
So we have and that's new, like that my college, you know, that's new. And one thing, and Sam, please talk more about this. It's always hard as an athlete to know am I mentally ill or do I just keep losing and losing sucks, you know what I mean, Like it hurts to lose that you take it personally. You work so hard and you're losing. It's like a slump is different than like I'm depressed. But there are some crossover, So how did you do?
Definitely, I mean it's nuts, it's I.
Think the only way to really differentiate between two is how much work that you're putting in. I mean, if you are doing the bare minimum, you're slotting by and you're losing, then you can really still for right to be like, look, I'm not doing what I could be doing right now.
Someone should have my job. That isn't me.
Whereas on the opposite of the spectrum, if you're putting it in ten to twelve hours a day, if you're watching votor, if you're doing everything you possibly can to get better and you're still losing, you need to have the mental acuity be like, look, I'm doing everything I can. I'm putting one hundred and ten percent into what I'm doing right now. So that's a thing that you can take away. Maybe your team isn't great, Maybe then you can look outside and not pass blame. But you can
understand it. You are doing whatever you possibly can in that situation. And that was something I had to learn because when I was doing poorly, I really didn't understand that. So I wasn't doing everything that I could have been doing at the time. And once I started and I started to feel a lot better because it's like, look, even if the results aren't there, I know that I'm
putting my best foot forward. So there's definitely crossover, like you mentioned, it's just having to navigate that crossover is very very hard to do.
Can you go on injured reserve? For my mind ain't right? Like, how does it when you're talking about this as a team based sport and you could be replaced by somebody. I don't know how your JV squad or your minor league or how you get called up from the G League goes in that world. But if somebody replaces you and they do better than you, you ain't getting your job back.
So that is very true.
What is the pressure of choosing to endure mental health struggles instead of just literally taking a breaking and plugging from everything.
So, up until a couple of years ago, was very taboo to do that. That's I mean, mental health in general wasn't really looked upon until a couple of years ago as a serious topic and call of duty held that that same sentiment with there have been cases where people have said, look, I burnt, I can't do this right now. I'm not in the headspace to compete. I am just a burden to my team.
Essentially.
That has happened over the last couple of seasons in multiple different cases. And to answer your question, there are substitutes on rosters that will step in for that player, whether it be like, hey, I just need a week, I need X amount of time doesn't matter. And again to your point, if they start performing very well, it
feels pretty rough. But nine times out of ten, the player will either be traded the next season if that is something that ends up happening, or the players come back out right and be like, look, I feel a lot better. I'm in a much better mental state than I was prior.
But yeah, mental life, it's like quarterbacks and football.
Basically, if you lose your job to the backup, you still have worse.
Exactly in the league, you're you're you're gonna have name value. You're going to be like, look this guy was playing extremely well prior to his break, and maybe his break made him feel ten times better. So you still have name value when when that case happens, that also has happened to your point where the substitute will step in and perform. Well, that's kind of how new new players entered the league in general.
But this is pro sports.
I mean, the stakes are high and there's real money. It's so it's not like a participation trophy for everyone.
So it's.
You know, I mean, it sucks, it sucks, but if someone steps in and does better than you, you got to really think if you're going to pop off. Yeah, yeah, I see one of Sam's mental health strategies just ran into the room. That's right, because everybody who competes or performs at a high level needs something that loves it unconditionally.
That's right.
Cameo a dog caming okay to the dog, came in.
Trying to get those likes. Look, I can bomb all day, I can bomb all day at a comedy club, but as soon as I come home, this little idiot looks me and tells me I'm funny. That's all I need.
I'll hear the door open. Here, the door open, but yes, to your point, it definitely helps you.
Have you ever fired a real gun?
Uh No, I have not, which is strange because I am from somewhere that loves hunting in the dirty South.
So yeah, no, I have not.
Sam across all leagues now, you play at an optimum level in your craft at some of the lower level leagues. Have you seen an increase in the level of support that esports leagues are providing to the players with regards to mental health, Like, I understand the care that you got, so like.
The G League in the NBA for example, Yeah.
Yeah, Double A Baseball and things like that.
Uh yeah, I think it's just with a rising tide lifts all ships kind of situation. Once the league franchise and we've got that huge influx of money, like I mentioned beforehand, it kind of helped everyone. I know that there was a large structure put in place for we call it challengers. That's like the that's our thing. So when you're talking about the Challenger League, there is a lot more structure than there used to be. I mentioned
the Wild Wild West a little ago. It was very much like that, but now there's there's a lot of different organizations There are professional teams that have Academy rosters or Challengers rosters that are directly linked to the CDL teams. There are separate entities in their own that just bro.
That's British Premier League Soccer. Shit, where we draft you at fourteen and you are part of our organization.
Exactly That is exactly correct.
Wow, I understand when I watch the NFL how they make money? How are these where? How are they making money?
Like?
Why would they invest? It's not broadcast yet, it's a little bit of broadcast, but like, how are where is the money coming in in? For esports, it the sale of the game.
So there's a couple of different avenues.
The main one obviously is advertising and selling sponsorships is as you do in general. For the individual such as myself, there are you know, brand deals. I have an agent similar to how an NFL would do it. You know, I can't go on a commercial with Save Farm and Patrick Mahomes, but I can do some one off, you know, something for like Herman Miller or just you know, brands in general that would want to work with you. They're
streaming on Twitch. There's a lot of revenue there. You can do YouTube, So it's just content as an individual. On the individual level is probably the number one, as well as your salary, which I'll get into. On the league level, it's a lot of brands, it's a lot of selling partnerships, and on the organizational level, that's where you have the tie to UH. Basically in Sanlely rich people that like to do esports or have an interest in it. So I used to play for the Seattle Search,
their partner with the Canucks. We I currently play for the La Thieves, which is a branch of one hundred Thieves. They are one of like a deep triple A esports organization. They had a Series A investment when they first started their company, invested by Drake. You said, like Rick Fox and Echo Fox. There are multiple different cases over esports where people just have an interest and happen to have a lot of money, and so I mean it's it's never a bad thing.
You know.
I'm I'm salaried and it provides my living and there's a huge structure, you know, I have industry case. It's it's a lot of different things.
But with that celebrity involvement that has not made it mainstream or uncool.
In any way.
I think it's I think it's the exact opposite. I think that.
Funnily enough to Drake's involved, not reach there you go, So to talk about the celebrity thing just for a second. I think the pandemic really moved video games into the spotlight. I think beforehand it was pretty taboo and it was nerdy to just put it blatantly if you played video games. And I think the pandemic, with everyone being inside, kind of tied everyone together, like, look, I can't go out, I don't have anything to do. Let's all hop on a war zone and hang out. So I think it
brought celebrities into the limelight. You look at like Kyler Murray, he just has memes around him that he plays call duty on his Microsoft Edge when he's when he's on the field. You know, Drake, like I said, is a series of Investor of one hundred Thieves. There's there's a bunch of things post Malone is even like exactly. He loves Apex and was on Complexity. So I've met a
lot of these guys. I've met celebrities strictly because I played video games, and these are things that I never would have been able to do otherwise, and it's kind of cool because it's an icebreaker. You can go up and you can talk shit to them and you can do it humanizes them because when you see these people and you see Drake, he's like, dude, why would I ever put myself in the same room as this guy.
I wouldn't even know what to say. But it gives you the opportunity to be able to speak freely and not be as nervous. And obviously that's just an extremely privileged standpoint because I could talk to these people.
But because that's always my thing, I just want to make sure that I think it's cooler if they're legitimate fans and have some level of emotional investment in what's happening versus this just being I've some money on this and I am here to check on my like like almost earnest in the way that like Ryan Reynolds and Rob mclaney bought that soccer team over in England. But they're legit there and running like they are invested in care versus just somebody. Yeah, this is about liquor line,
What the fuck do you know about liquor? Yeah, tequila by my tequila did you go down there and check on your tequila plants?
Bitch?
Did you?
You probably did?
After the break, Costa, I want to talk to you about your experience going to one of these tournaments, what it was like.
We need to talk about the salary.
Sam.
I don't want to pocket watch you, but I.
Want to.
Give us the median. We don't need your number, but give us the median. And I want to talk a little bit about women representation within your sport as well. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes. We're round and third and headed for home. Talking esports. Now, Costa, you went to one of these sport events. Now I'll give you my scope of knowledge. We have The Whiz with Fred Savage, yep, where he went to play Super Mario three.
That's right, totally shit.
Before it came out, the whole movie was basically a commercial for mark Mars three. Yeah, it got my ass. And then I also have The Last Starfighter, where a dude was so good at a video game that an alien from space came down and said, can you help free our press people with your video game skills? That's my spectrum of knowledge of being good at video games and being invited to do it at a pinnacle.
I don't know the second reference.
That's a cult hit.
Bro, those are some references. Let me tell you those are some tier one deep cuts.
I'm forty four years old. I'm old.
So when you when you step into the Barclays Costa, like just the array of p there, Like, what's the demo for this? Is it fourteen to forty? Is it just young?
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, you know, my previous knowledge of this was that documentary The King of Kong. If you ever saw that about the competitive donkey Kong, and I remember putting that maybe in the DVD player, saying, what is this trash? Why did my brother make me watch this? And immediately am suckered into Because it's about competition. It's about watching people compete at their highest level. So I love that. So Barkley Center, I definitely felt fish
out of water. I definitely felt like I was the tallest person there twenty there was twenty thousand people there. I immediately was envious and jealous of the fandom, of the passion, of the enthusiasm, of the energy. You know, tennis, you clap like this, I maybe had two people at my matches. I was watching Team Liquid compete in Counterstrike, and all the fans, audience members, you know, whatever you call,
they're wearing these bracelets. And when one team would place the bomb on the the other team, you know, and I'm I'm gonna butcher the sport. But when one bomb gets placed, a clock starts ticking down, and every time a second goes off, everyone in the stadium's bracelet pulses twenty thousand pulsing bracelets. So then as the bomb gets closer and closer to going off, these bracelets start glowing to add to the terrifying notion that this bomb's going
to explode soon. I'm like, stand, it's so cool. Roy, I'm standing there, like there's twenty thousand bracelets going brighter red, brighter red, and the other team's trying to like defend or find the bomb or whatever the shit. It was like, oh shit, e Sports, you guys tied in the fans in the game. That was a badass move. And that
was when I was sold. Now I didn't I don't play, and I didn't buy the jersey, but I immediately I immediately got it and gave it some props because it was it was a fun environment.
Sam, are people bedding on this shit? Because this is wait, I'm sorry?
What thanks?
On drafts?
On DraftKings. I can just go on a gambling app and just go yeah it give me forty dollars on Sam to score, to get fifteen.
Kills, throw us at parlazy to everyone.
Wow, that's a level of knowledge that I do not possess about this.
So if it's twenty thousand people, you're streaming.
The exact same thing. I'm sitting here preaching. It's the same thing.
So if it's being live stream there's revenue coming from that, and eventually that has to trickle back to the players at at a high level. Pocket watching roy packet, watching time at a high level. Could I make six figures doing this.
For a living?
Yeah? Absolutely So. When you're a member of the CDL, whether that be substitute or on the starting roster, your minimum salary is fifty thousand dollars. You cannot make underd fifty thousand dollars if you are a contracted CDL professional.
How long is the season?
The season is nine months a school year. See's actually school ever got your time off?
So you make aside hustles on twitch and do other streams. Should get your celebrity stuff.
Okay, see the high end, you're making high six figures, high sixes, mid mid to mid.
To high sixes.
On the extreme cases, like the highest played player in the league makes high six figures.
I'm in the middle, not going to say where.
So just some people who aren't good with their figures. Six figures is one hundred thousand dollars. So you're saying mid to high you can make half a million.
You can make half a million to about five hundred thousand. It is like the majority of the league, I probably eighty percent.
That's awesome.
So when you when you look at the research, you know, with all of these different teams, at least the research on outside, there seems to be a lack of representation of women in ET sports. Have you seen that number slowly growing over the span of your career? Talk about where representation is for women when you started, versus where you see it going today, Because I would imagine there isn't a need for a women's lead, Like we're not going to get.
Into muscle mass and size. It's shit. Thumb move can you move your thumb too.
So it's funny you asked, because I think the was it. It was either yesterday the day before. There was the first woman to qualify for the Challengers Elite, which is basically like their tournament that is in the Challenger League.
That was the first time in forever. Uh and that was like two days ago.
I think.
So definitely there's there's more women representation every year. It's building, and I think think that that's just across esports as well. I don't even think that's specific to call Duty. You know, Valerie has women's leagues. They have full blown I don't know what they call it in Valerie, but they have
like Academy rosters. They have a full blown league strictly for women's So I think that as the year goes on, or as the years go on, excuse me, I can't help but agree that as time goes on, there's just more and more women representation, which is incredible to see. Specific to call Duty, I think we're lagging behind just a tad because it's not really something that I think
women really gravitate towards. I think Valeriane is probably leading the space right now in terms of just esports as a whole because I was watching that the other day and no joke, and it was legitimately impressive.
Because I am horrific at Valerie.
I can't play on keyboard mouse at all to save my life in any aspect. Thank god I have a controller to make my living on. But yeah, I think women are are definitely trailblazing in the space right now.
For sure, is there in terms of the fight for because I don't want to. I want to be very careful about not rolling the esports community into the gaming community as a whole.
Right I feel like they're two different things separate.
We have professional gaming, which where there might be some degree of gender discrimination, and you're saying that there are leagues and that there are efforts being that there are efforts to make things more equitable for women. But on the gaming side, we're just talking to regular Joe blow gamer in the basement. Women are subjected to all types of harassment and trolling and bullying and docsing. How much can the esports community do to try to speak out
against that. It's kind of like the racism and soccer. Soccer's not racist, but there's a lot of the fans that you're talking crazy in them stands. So has the esports community been able to do anything, I guess, to speak out about that or try to stop and curtail that.
I think that transcends the esports feed and I think that becomes just like a humanity thing and trying to be a good person in general. But to your point, absolutely, I think just trying to be as positive as you can about the space. And I think that gaming definitely has that stigma attached. Michael, since he you're such a filthy casual, I'm sure that you could you probably agree that. You know, there are people that when you talk about video games, they are just people that are assholes, and
I think that's an all walks of life. Unfortunately, I think that you're absolutely right Roy, you know, the sexism and stuff like that. It definitely is not great for the space, not even just esports, but video games and life in general. That's something that we need to be
a lot more progressive on. You know. I do my best to spare as much positivity and might stream as I can, and I'm very welcoming to anyone, but you're You're definitely not wrong there, and I think that when you have women transcending in esports and becoming you know, like I said, with the Valorant Thing or her name is Kelsey in Call of Duty, when you have these women making headway into space, I think that sets an example because you know, these women could kick your ass
in the video game that you're talking about. So I think that it's something that you know, hopefully down the line, in a couple of years or hopefully sooner, progression is made. But I mean, that's just a humanity thing in general, just want to be a good person. I don't think that's necessarily an esports thing.
There's something beautiful as we get more women playing competitive esports, in particular Call of Duty. There's something beautiful about men and women trying to kill each other in the video games. Very wrong, I mean, like that is right now it's mostly men trying to kill each other, but it's adds such a beautiful complexity when it's both genders both working together and also working against each other.
And that was your takeaway from this whole segment.
It's a filthy casual I like.
It, no, But I mean you talked about it a little bit at the top, Coster, But you know, as a casual coming into this and having covered it, how did it change your view of just, you know, even just the idea that video games make people crazy right like in theory, right like they go all video games make people violent.
But then you have love that take that's such a yeah, I know, it's such a hash take.
I know you have an arena full of people watching violence and people doing violent ty of they why aren't.
Well, you know, I I just was reminded and humbled that what I think is one way is what I think. But it's so important to step out of your comfort zone because I one hundred percent would be the dad that would say, get off the video games, go outside, I get doings, go outside. But then you walk into the Barclay Center and twenty one thousand tickets were sold, and I just say, this is another healthy outlet. I know that what you know, they're they're doing a violent
game or whatever. But it was it was really fun to see the team. There was a team aspect, there was a coach, they were learning lessons, there was people that were disappointed, there's people that had achieved that day. It was preparing them for all facets of life. That's cool.
So just to introduct really quickly.
That was your first and only experience with the sports counter strike tournament. Yeah, you probably picked the best thing that you could have possibly done to have your to do your for your first time.
Yeah, well that's probably why we picked it too.
Counter Strike fandom is kind of one on its own. I think it's a league above the rest, not to make the joke with League of Legends is also very good. Counter Strike has such passion behind it and it transcends the game as well. It goes to nationality, the European counter Strike, you know, a team like what it was Brazilian counter Strike. There are we could compare it to soccer.
I mean, there's legitimate fandom when it comes to nationalities with encounter a strike, and that's why it's so incredible. Like when North America does well, people are losing their minds. You know, years and years ago Cloud nine was doing incredible. They want a major with Shroud. So counter Strike is I think the extreme example of fandom in esports and League of Legends is also incredible as well well.
Sam, I can't thank you enough for coming on costs to thank you as well for contributing to this wonderful, wonderful conversation.
Hope we converted Costa while we were here, Roy, I hope we did.
Yeah, Yeah, let's baby steps. Let's put him on a Super Nintendo. Let's go to six buttons. He's not ready for left L two R two.
He's not he's not quite the keyboard and mouse yet.
That's all the time we have for today, but hopefully by now we've taken you beyond the scenes, see you next week. Listen to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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