W. Kamau Bell - "We Need to Talk About Cosby"

talk about racism. You always bringing the room down. You're talking about racism, and I see you felt that as a challenge. You were like, you know what, Trevor, I'm gonna show you at this time, we're gonna talk about Bill Cosby. You thought I brought the room down. Before the room is down, and they're down. A lot of them are down on me right now. Why would you choose to do this? I remember you calling me and you said, hey, do you I'm doing this documentary about

Bill Cosby? Would you like to be in it? And I was like, no, yeah, there was no reason I would want to be part of this document but no. But in all honestly, it's because I know this is strange to say. Bill Cosby just was not a cultural influence talked about that, and it was so weird to me because I'm glad I've watched this documentary because now I truly understand how big cause me actually was. So tell me, why why do you think we need to

talk about Cosby? I appreciate you talking about that phone call because I got a lot of nose for a lot of people, and I've been very clear about other than obviously hanimal bursts, I'm not I haven't said who said no, So thank you for outing yourself here. Yeah, so a lot of people said no, of course. Well I only said no because I didn't I could answer

the conversation. I mean a lot of people. I mean, yes, I understand that, but I'm saying like a lot of I mean, if you stack the the yes is next to the nose, yeah, and it's and you know, and a lot of people had a lot of I mean I had some really great conversations like the one I had with you, with people for a long time that ended in't no yeah yeah yeah. So when you're getting all the nose, did you think should I not be

making this thing? Yeah? That was one of the many times I thought, and right now as I sit here, should I have been making this thing? It's like, I can't explain it other than I was. I'm always drawn to difficult conversations that you know, I think, uh, And because Bill Cosby was such a huge cultural racial figure in my life and so charted a path that I was like, that's the path I should be on. Do good work, be a comedian, but also do good in

the world. Like a lot of black folks, specifically of my generation older, we were just gutted to find out about all these allegations and then wrestling with do I believe them? And I believe them, And so it's like and I that conversation is going in my head all the time, every time he makes an appearance or sends out sends out a tweet, and like, I'm always thinking about it and talking to other people about it, and

I couldn't. I found myself in a position where I was talking to the producers of this doc about it and they were like, they had never thought about it this way, and so this is where we ended up. But yeah, it was I can only say I was compelled to do it by something that was not rational. I think you doing it has honestly opened up one of the hardest conversations that we need to be having in society, not just specifically about Bill Cosby, but about

society as a whole. Right, it feels like, especially when you watch this docuseries, that they were almost you know, three generations of people that are going to exist. There are the people who came up with Cosby. You know, you are sort of in the hearts of that. Like as a child that was Cosby was one of the shape.

It was part of shaping you. Really you know, I mean people were talking about this, you know, just before we came out for this interview, like my producers and they were talking about how like in white families, they were like, Cosby's this is the biggest thing. It wasn't a black or white was Cosby. He was America's dad, America's black, America's right, and he he had done so much.

And you know, we talked about how, you know, you learned this in the documentaries, like how Cosby changed stunt men in America, Like Cosby was the one who said, hey, you can't have white guys in black face doing a stunt just get black stuntmen. He changed Hollywood felure. Yeah. There were no stunt black stunt performers under contract until Bill Cosby. So you have this generation of people who goes, man, Bill Cosby changed my world in all the best ways.

Then you have the now generation who goes like, well, I just know Bill Cosby as the rapist guy, right, And then you have the generation that goes like, how do we how do we live with the myths? Yeah? And the man yeah? And that you want to that question the documentary for yourself. I think the way we is to deal with all of it. I think the only way you can deal with it. Like Roland Martin makes a great point of like it you can't talk about black black you can't talk about American twenty century

without talking about Bill Cosby. And I think he says black America, but you can't talk about America in the twenty century without talking about Bill Cosby. But you can't also ignore all the things that have come out in the twenty one century. And so for me, this whole doc is about creating a space to talk about all of it. It's we need to talk about Cosby, not Here's my thoughts on Cosby, And as you can see from that clip, there's a there's nuance, there's anger, and

there's sorrow. There's a lot of a lot of it is based in conflict or royaling frustration, and you have to talk about all of it because otherwise we lose essential parts of American history. For a lot of people, I'm hearing like they've been waiting for this conversation happen in some format. And the other problem in America we have the like it's not time now, It's not time now, anytime there's any your conversation. It just felt like when I started he was in prison, I felt like it's time.

And then he got out. He got out on the last day of filming. Yeah, I had two questions, one, how did you feel about that? And too, did you ever reach out to him to be a part of the documentary? So he got out on the last day of filming. It was one of the most surreal days of my life up until tomorrow when he releases a

statement about the dock, and the surreality will continue. Um, you know, I thought maybe the project goes away, and also, yeah, maybe the project goes away, you know, because it's just so hard to make. I didn't reach out to him because I was always clear that one, it's a conversation about him, it's not it's not a true crime documentary. It's not about finding out what this person thinks. It's a conversation about the legacy and the work and also

the allegations. And I believe as I said, And it just felt like I had, really we had worked hard as a team to get to get the get to earn the survivor's trust, sit down and have these conversations in a more wide open way, and that would have felt like a real betrayal of their trust to put Bill Cosby into this. One thing I appreciated in this documentary is how you having those conversations, You know, it feels like you had to tackle tackle it in a

nuance way. You can just go like, so what happened? It seemed like there was more to the conversation. What do you think we missed in some of the ways we were trying to have conversations in and around Cosby

and in many of his survivors who came out. It was really important for me and the filmmakers and the other producers to go, let's show who these people were, Let's bring them in the dock when they're just commenting on the time and the era, and if they have good memories of Bill, cause them bring them in to

talk about that. Because then the thing happens like maybe some woman is telling you about how Playboy worked and he who who Hefner was another man who's in this era, and you go, she's an expert because she was in Playboy magazine and she was a playmate. And then you go, oh, wait, she's a survivor, so you get to meet her as a human being who's an expert in her life in her field, and you don't, and you're not bringing all that. The survivor is about to tell me a story too.

Is it possible to separate the artists from the arts? Do you think it is possible? I mean, I would say this, We separate the art from the artists all the time. There are so many ways it could be. Musicians could be actors where they don't have to be criminals. But you go, like, right now you're talking about Eric Clapton. You know what I mean that there are a lot of people who don't agree with any of his vaccine stances. But but but maybe felt touched by the song Tears

in Heaven, you know what I mean. Like, so we do that all the time. We just don't think about it until it becomes somebody who's so seminal as Bill Cosby, where if I separate, if I go I can't watch the stuff anymore, and you go, I can, then it becomes a fight of you mad at me for because you think I don't understand and because you don't think I'm taking him seriously, And so for me, I'm like in the stock we can take the art seriously, but

we have to talk about the other stuff. Well, I'll tell you this, man, this documentary, I can't imagine how hard and scary it was to make. It's no I I appreciate that, but but but honestly, I appreciate it just on a personal level because I think it gives people an opportunity to consume an extremely complicated story and a complicated legacy in one of the most nuanced ways possible.

So thank you for that, thank you for putting yourself on the line, and just becase I want you to know if your career ends, I will I will like claim that I never knew year I appreciate what you did. I will and I will respect that. I will respect that this tape will be deleted. I understand. I'm in for realm in congratulations and thank you very much, Thank you very much. Ever, we need to talk about Cosby for me is January only on a showtime, The Daily

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