Ta-Nehisi Coates - Why Obama Was Different in "We Were Eight Years in Power"

have you, man. This is uh, this is fun. Before before we get into the into the book, there's a story that came out of the book that I like, a side of you that I didn't really know about, a piece of you that I went back and read on, and that was Tana Hussie, the blogger. You know you you blogged a lot. You You you speak in the book about how this is where you forged your writing. You know it was it was your dojo in a way. Do you sometimes miss that Tana Hussy where you could

say whatever you want? You know, there wasn't the scrutiny on you. You You were just spitting your ideas out there all the time, all the time. Yeah, I mean, I, um, you know what happened last year. I got I was doing another interview show and I got asked who I was voting for, and I said, I said I was voting for Bernie Sanders and the New York Times before they called me after that, and it was clear, I

like I couldn't talk in the same way anymore. Like I just didn't have like the ability I had, you know, very much way, you know how, because in my mind is just me talking. It's just the guy from West Baltom were talking. He might know, he might not know. But you know, then I realized that people don't necessarily see it that way. Well, yeah, it's funny you say that, because people see you as knowing everything you put down

on a page, they see as you knowing. But in this book, what you've done is you've gone back and you've said I didn't know, and I should have known, and I wish I would have known, which which is an interesting way to go back and look at your life and look at eight years in power. The book is really looking at Obama's tenure, right, looking at that time. Am I correct in saying that this is a pessimistic outlook on on what the outyears, on what the those

eight years meant. I don't know, you know, it's a it's an odd thing, you know, I'm I'm a journalist, Like that's I mean, like, I know, people don't see that anymore. But you know, my editors never saying, you know, well town House. You know when I tell them, go right, is this gonna be hopeful? You know, it's going to be optimistic or pessimistic. So it's it's hard for me to answer that as a as a practitioner, it is what it was, if that makes any sort of sense.

That's like, from the aspect of actually creating the thing. Yes, I don't think why it's going to be a really depressing story. But while this is gonna make people feel great, you know, it's it's not really in my mind. I'm trying to get answers, you know. Um, And if those answers tend to be depressing, then I think that's because of previous stories that maybe we've told ourselves about the world.

That's that's interesting because I've seen a few white people who have said, Tanahassi, how can you condemn this country? You know, they go like, Tanahass, I mean, I hear what you're saying, and I mean, you're right about the slavery, and you writes about the Jim Crow, and you're right about segregation, and he writes about you know, mass and conceration.

But but really is it isn't that bad? I mean, MoMA, I don't see myself condemning the country right like I think what it is is if you believe, if you believe in the American exceptional this myth is that America is somehow higher than all other countries, that it's touched by God, and it really is, you know, as we talked about that city on the hill, Then yes I'm condemning it, Yes, I mean, but if you believe, is I believe that it's a society, is a country established

by humans with all the beautiful things and all the flaws that come from being a human being, then no, it's just a story. It's just the story. Would just like what if I what if I presented this to you? What if I said it is exceptional? What if I went, America is exceptional in the same way Superman is exceptional. But then there is the clock Kent side of Superman, you know, the flaws, the cracks in the can you can you be Superman? An election loser side? Like if

they were the same. No, it's much more like that, you know, I don't know. I think, um, there's a heavy missionary impulse that is buried in the American psyche, and maybe it's buried in the psyche of all people like where they want to believe their country is somehow distinctly more and moral or more just than all other societies and countries before. Um. I don't see myself necessarily as saying anything that you know, that you know, sort of out there, but I think it does attack that

idea that's just somehow you know, particularly special, different, exceptional. You. You take us through each year of the Obama presidency, and it's interesting how the book starts from a place of hope, excitement. You know. You talk about how you went with your partner, you bought food, you would it was like, oh, Black Times, maybe it was good. Use a different phrase, yeah, I mean, not perphrase. Pah, that's

what I felt Black Times. And yeah, and then um, and then as as the presidency unfold, we we go through this journey with you. That's really powerful because you take us to a place where, in many ways you argue that Obama's presidency and black leadership in any way, shape or form, is in some way contributing to white supremacy, which is very complicated argument. What what what do you mean

when you say that. I wouldn't quite, but I would say it's it's not you know, like I don't think Obama did anything but be a human being and you know, going to the office and just happened to be somebody to checked black on the sentence form. It's the reaction to that. It's always the reaction to the ordinary ness, to the bourgeois and to the middle class neess of you know, normal everyday black people, and how well that

accords with what this country claims the value. That's always a threat because it automatically undermines the suppositions of white supremacy, which says that black people, you know, don't take care that kids. Black people are you know, you know, always you know, killing each other ended up in like there's a kind of moral judgment that can all ways be made on black people. This goes back to, you know, justifications to slavery and black folks who present themselves, you know,

in a in a particular way as undermining that. You know, it's always a threat to the thinking about white superson I think that's why folks were so offended by Obama, Like they couldn't grasp that he was actually black, and so they became this whole other mythology that sprung up around them most you know, specifically in this birth ofism thing. Somehow he's not like, he could not be from here because he's not the black that we believe black to

be exactly. And there's another word that I cannot use up here, but I think that that they actually want that's the archetype of what that is, but that he would be black and be human and all the again exception, all the normal ways of a human being, kiss your wife, love your wife, got a dog, you know, two kids, just normal human every day what's too much, you know what I mean? And I think that contributed to the birth of rhism, you know, all the sort of weird

conspiracy theories that you know, sprung up around them. When you when you talk about the backlash that many people have tried to dissect looking at the election, um you one of your arguments is, in many ways Trump was a backlash to Obama. Now I understand that the argument, but I go was was this a backlash to Obama or was it a backlash to the establishment? To Hillary Clinton too? More of the same, Because I mean, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump had the same amount of votes.

You know, Hillary Clinton is the person who had fewer votes, and so it feels like it was less the people running around Trump in the in the national president in the national election, more people running around him in the in the Republican nomination. Do you feel that that, like, does it have to be a backlash? Do you think it was a backlash? Yeah, it definitely was. It definitely was. I mean, you're right, it was a reaction. I think it was to somebody sort of reaction to Hillary Clinton.

I think it was a reactive the fact of having the possibility of a woman president. Right, I think that was definitely there. Um. But I've heard, you know, people who make this arguing about Mitt Romney and Trump all the time, as though Mitt Romney and Trump are equal. Um. Mitt Romney had been governor, he had run for president before,

He was very, very practiced politician. The fact that Trump, who had no experience at all in politics, who said all sorts of outrageous things, who was caught on tape bragging about sexual harassment, was even in speeding distance of Mit Romney shows you how much the bar was lower. So the fact that you know, they somehow that doesn't prove much to me. If if he were, if him and Obama were being judged by the same standards, he

wouldn't even have been in the race. It's the lower bar that I think attest to the fact, you know, of backlash when you look at the complicated relationship between white supremacy and misogyny, that's like a very complicated space to be in. You know, where you go, white supremacy and the oppression of women have been tied together in ways that I even struggled to comprehend. How does how does that plan? And have you even taken the time to read through that, because I know you don't. You don't.

You know, you're you're not the journalist of everything. Um. They're better people that made that that that can stress that. Um. But I think you know, one of one of the notions that that that you know is always there is the fact that having a black president like that was

a fundamental shift. I mean, you had had a line of why dudes you know before him, and then you were gonna immediately follow that up with a woman, you know, I think you know it was it was almost unfortunate that Hillary Clinton had to run after there had been a black president, talking about you know, just you know, two big, big, you know, moments of just huge, huge change. I think before I let you go, one last question talking to the idea we were eight years in power.

You draw in the book many parallels between a time when black people were ruling, the backlash that came afterwards, and Obama's rule in the backlash that came afterwards. One thing you also do in the book, and I don't know if it's coincidential or not, is you also draw parallels in the response to that backlash you have the civil rights movement that comes afterwards. Do you think that in some ways Donald Trump's presidency will be the sling

shot that propels America even further forward? Is there a possibility that now you will have more people engaged in politics, You will have more women who are running for office, You will have more men who are accountable for sexual harassment. Do you think there's a possibility, Yeah, there's a possibility. It also could be the trapdoorter plummets I sent to the abyss, so one or the other one of you.

I'm not saying, you know, I'm not saying you know, I've one or I hope when I'm on my best man an no. Thank you so much for being here, Always, always a pleasure. Eight Years in Power is available now. It's fascinating. You want to read this book. Ton of House of Calls, Everybody. The Daily Show that Drevor Noah Ears Edition. Watch The Daily Show weeknights at eleven ten Central One, Comedy Central and the Comedy Central Act. Watch Bull episodes and videos at the Daily Show dot com.

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