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My guest tonight.
He is the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, ran for president of twenty twenty foe.
Welcome to the program, Pete Boodha.
Judge, So I'm.
T side.
So al.
Crazy.
Let me let me tell the story.
That uh is all the.
Time we have great Uh, I gotta tell you.
So, I was coming out. I come out earlier just to talk to the audience. I have some words. Uh. There was a lovely woman in the audience. She said uh.
She stood up and she said, is the future Madam president here tonight? And I said, uh, I'm not sure what you're saying. She said, Kamala Harris. And I said, oh, you thought Kamala Harris is here tonight and she's not. And there was a sadness that crept over her face. But you just healed it.
You Yeah, I swear to God, though you are for liberals watching you go on Fox News and discuss things in a rational manner, it is for liberals.
It's like when when Gossling hosts SNL. It's just that it's just like, oh, he's so good at this. Is that an uncomfortable thing to do? Is it something you enjoy.
A little bit?
I mean, I never thought that Fox News would be like a specialty of mine. Yes, it's not something I watched a ton of before I found myself going on it.
Off.
You ain't missing much, sir, You ain't missing you know.
What I found is it is important to reach people where they are. And even if I'm skeptical sometimes that the network is covering things in good faith, I know lots of people who are tuning in right and so in the same way that you know, Back when I was running for president, I kind of specialized in counties that had voted for Obama and then for Trump. That
that's how I want Iowa. Really it was partly through that kind of outreach and finding people who are not hardcore partisans but do usually get their information in a very certain, and I would argue, very narrow way. I have a chance to as long as they'll have me on, I have a chance to pop that you know, puncture that that bubble.
And as you find anecdotal feedback that it's heard other than you know, a clip going viral or something like that.
Will you be at home in Michigan.
Will you be somewhere and someone that you know is more red partisan will say to you, Hey, I caught you on.
Yeah, I mean literally happened to me today.
And to be clear, it's not like somebody says, you know, I was a rock rib Republican and I saw your four minute Fox News segment and I've seen the light and now I'm a Democrat. But you know, I do hear from people I know who are more conservative or probably don't usually vote the way I do. But they'll say, you know, I saw the way you laid things out.
I think I think, you know, I understand where you're coming from, or I think the way you laid out could make sense and right, you know, I'm under no illusion that you can just you know, on the strength of a witty argument or.
A man are you preaching to him? Yep, you're right, but deadn't dude Jang, But.
I get it. I get I get the conversation.
Anciety, What is the point of having a conversation if you're not speaking to people who don't already agree with you?
Son of a bitch. That's so smart and it's exactly the way it's to be. Are you?
By the way?
Uh?
Unbelievably tumultuous? I mean, week like eight days?
Has it felt that way inside the administration? How did you find out about it? Is it in that situation? Does the President call everybody together and go, hey, everybody, uh got some news?
Like? How does that? How does it work?
No?
I mean that would be a very long list of everybody to you know, to talk to. So I found out the way everybody did. I was I was actually on a plane, fittingly enough, taxiing in and Jason was sitting next to me and checking Twitter and and and saw the post and uh so we found out that the same way everybody else did. And yeah, ever since, I think a lot of us, you know, our heads are spinning. So much has changed. But part of what's
changed is this incredible energy that we have. Now you know, home over the weekend, stop by the field office for the now Harris campaign.
Next where we live in did they.
Literally just take the poster down and slap another one up?
There?
Is that like it's the same office with the same people pretty much.
And that's okay because it's it's it's because it's it's the same values and it's the same effort, right, It's just yeah, no, I mean they're literally like I will say, they got those yard times already really quick.
Yeah, exact, But but more's got to be a kink goes almost everywhere. You know.
She obviously, you know, she represents a lot of continuity with the values of of the Biden Harris campaign and and the Biden Harris administration, but also a different messenger, a different style, of different approach, and people are clearly really fired up and excited about it.
I know, I do you think is it This is such a strange question, and I don't know if you've spoken to him or not, but like, do you think President Biden sees that and is like, oh fine, like or is he like does that? I would imagine it would hurt your feelings. If that were me, it would it would hurt my feelings.
I don't know.
I think I think part of what he achieved with what's a really extraordinary thing. I think even now we might be under selling how world historically rare it is to be literally the most powerful person and just world. It's lay power aside, right, just because it's the right thing to do. But in doing so, I also think he's consolidated his own standing as one of America's great presidents.
And I also think he's very conscious that that that means spreading through the tape and continuing to deliver for the next six.
What are the narrative about, Like they bullied him? He was bullied? Is that even that?
Can you do that to a president? Can you be like, get out and then the president will be like stop yetting it me?
No?
I mean, that's the thing.
It was his call, and he made that call, and people made say those delegates were his right. Yeah, I mean, and people may second guess, you know that the manner of it or the timing of it, But at the end of the day, it was his choice. He made that choice, and that must have been an extraordinarily difficult choice but also the right choice.
Now are you being so now it's she is on a vice presidential search? Are you being vetted right now? Would you know if you're being vetted right now? When they vet you, did you feel it?
Is it a physical sensation you're being vetted?
You know? Yeah?
You know you know when you're being vetted. Yeah, I may vet you. I'm gonna vet you right now.
Please don't please don't, pretty, pretty, pretty Gould.
What does it require?
Is there, like, is there literally a physical exam that goes along with being vetted?
Not that I'm aware of, but I mean, look, all I should say about is that you know, she is going to make this decision.
She's got a process.
Oh my god, she I mean, everything you say, even that is being vetted. Probably it's so uncomfortable because don't aren't you Do you think the vetting process is different.
To be in the administration, you probably have to go through a process.
Yah.
In fact, I was thinking about it because I was vetted to be part of the cabinet and then pretty soon after that taskit and I were going through the process of adoption, and you know, it's kind of the same thing, but with a social worker instead of a white shoe law firm. Really, I mean there's a lot of you know that the law firm is like Okay, now, you know, tell me about your finances, and you know, a year or two later is a social worker.
He's like, tell me about your finances.
And you go through a step by step, and one of the things you think about is the journey that an adoptive that adoptive parents go through, right, does involve that kind of you.
It's that the bar of adoption is that high.
It's similar to like getting a high level security clearance position in government.
Yeah, I mean not the exact same obviously, but but you know, like they overlap, right.
Were there questions was there certain parts of the vetting process for government where you were like, you're gonna let me get away with that, Like was there anything like.
Well, you know what I.
Mean if there was not, But if there was, would I describe it on television?
Of course?
This is this is cable, it's see.
That's my my problem is, uh, the vetting process, because being vetted to be a road comic is.
The bar is don't die.
But like for public service, if I've got pictures in a shoe box, that would disqualify me. If you're working for the post office, like it's it's bad, but you you know, you were in the military, like.
Pretty clean yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I don't want to say anything. It sounded to me right there like you're hiding something. So when will they tell you?
Do they come to.
You afterwards and say, hey, we're about to announce it and you made it to the quarterfinals and you were great? But do they like, will they announce that or do you find out like on Twitter like everybody else.
I don't know. What I know is that there's a flying for me.
They're going to talk values again, aren't you.
Yeah?
Probably, I probably think no, it's no look she did. What I'll say is, no matter what.
The Flying Formation is going to be, I'm really excited to be part of this. I'm excited to be part of this campaign because I really believe in it and I feel that energy. I felt it on the ground.
Over that You've been back out on the on the road since this happened.
Yeah, yeah, I kicked off a canvass in the Traverse City Field office and it felt amazing. Just it was an energy I hadn't felt since I was campaigning in Michigan in twenty twenty two for the midterms, which went really well. So you know, the butt as you memorably pointed out, you know, three or four months is forever, so a lot of things are going to happen. There's gonna be a lot of ups and downs. It's gonna
be a roller coaster. But I think we're ready for that, largely because we're I think now we're kinda we have a renewed awareness not just of what we're against, but what we're for, right, And I think that's really important.
Well, the message before was literally it doesn't matter what you see that's worse, which is not you know, it's not so compelling, you know what I mean?
And people wait, Curzy, and I.
Don't say that.
I don't see that to be disrespectful.
It's just like it seemed like, you know what people were experiencing.
Yeah, And I think, look, there is a temptation to have our message be entirely about Donald Trump because we're so disturbed by what his return would mean, and maybe a little more also about Jade Vance.
Because of how odd boyd he's turned out to me.
I gotta tell you, boy, did that dude drop a turd on launch? Like I've never seen anything like that, where they were like one day they were like the heir to the Maga Fortune and the Maga the Prince JD.
Shanon Martin. He comes out and he's like, I hate cat ladies.
You know, it's rough and.
And you know it's just like systematically insulted so many people. It's not just the kind of things he said, but the policy ideas behind them. Like he has this idea that you should get extra votes if you have kids.
Extra votes.
Yeah, he suggested that that you should have extra votes if you're a parent.
Really, I think there's there's lots of you don't even.
Get that in your own house. I'm a parent, you don't get anything. True.
I'm trying to find that. I mean, ours are not yet three.
But and it's rooted in this strange idea that it's not just he doesn't just say that being a parent gives you, you know, an important roles of citizen, which I agree with, that it gives you unique perspective on the future.
It's that not.
Being a parent makes you less Like he's absolutely how I feel.
He said.
He said, people who don't have children, this is a quote, have no physical commitment.
To the future of this country.
Wow.
And I just think about how like.
No physical commitment to the future, like when I was deployed to Afghanistan. I didn't have kids back then, but I will tell you, especially when there was a rocket attack going on, my commitment to this country felt pretty physical.
Tells them.
This is why, this is why people love seeing you going through shows, because that framing is perfect because it does it points to that idea that who are you to tell what's in someone else's heart about what they feel about the future, or what they feel about this country. And the sacrifices that you made, as you said, without having had children, were tremendous.
So it's shocking.
And I also have to address this sort of strange I think false populace on the right, economic populism. The Roberts Court has been the least work or friendly court and god knows how long their policies. You know, they complain about globalization hurting workers, and I do think that's a correct formulation. I think we didn't do enough in that moment. But I don't think they realize what right
to work states. You know, what they think Mexico is to the United States, Texas is to New York like it's a race to the bottom, and there's all kinds of studies that show right to work states depress wages, they depress worker safety, they do.
All kinds of terrible. So what is this economic populism based on, Well.
It's not based on policy. It's just body language. It's this idea that if you just act like you are populists, that that counts as if. Look, I'm under no illusions that elections are just a policy exercise. A lot of
it is vibes, a lot of it is style. But if your party has been systematically against you onions, against a higher minimum wage, against things like paid family leave, against overtime, then just because you found Hulk Hogan and kid Rock and put him on stage, doesn't make you a friend of the working man, right because substance after anatomy, Well, I would.
Only say it does make you a friend of the workingman. In the eighties, so I think I think that was helpful.
Do you in terms of that? I wonder you know, ever since Reagan, and I think democratic administrations have gone along with it too much as well, the shift from a labor economy to an investment economy and the penalties that labor faces versus you know, there's no question that equities and the investment market have done unbelievably well since you know, the eighties, right, and that labor has you know,
wallowed much further behind. It's a shareholder economy. Why is it so difficult to get workers, forget about even unions a place at the table at the companies. If these companies have done so well for their shareholders, why why can't the workers share in that prosperity in the same way as why can't they be shareholders?
I think that's right, although I will say one thing that unions are increasingly doing is getting employees a chance to participate in that profit sharing for exactly that reason, right, and getting that seat at the table. But that's exactly why it matters, not just kind of what your style or your affect is, but what you're actually proposing to do.
And I would say, you know, part of what we can be really proud of from the Biden Harris ears and I think in future a future Harris administration too, is a real focus on returning a little more to a worker led economy or worker oriented economy that includes building like yes, you know, the financialization, A lot of those trends have been very powerful in the role of the information economy, which is merged in some ways with manufacturing, because you know, even a car is increasingly you know,
park car, park computer. But it's still really important that we make the cars here. And that's part of what we've been working to make happen. There was a manufacturing recession during Trump. Even before COVID there was a manufacturing boom. Now you have to go back decades to find anything like this much investment in terms of the amount of places around the country right now where factories are being built.
There was just a guy, it was I think it was the mayor. It was a city in Arizona, it might have been Mesa wrote a op ed almost saying exactly that he's a Republican and he's in a border town and he was saying, I'm supporting Harris because of the investment active infrastructure, because of the JAFS Act, because of what they tried to do, and maybe that is the key, is to get that out in those sorts of places where people might not normally hear.
Yeah, because I remember being a mayor in the industrial Midwest and actually, the one time that Trump fooled me, I'll admit it. Something he said he would do that. I believed him was when he said he was going to pass this big infrastructure law. I thought he would do it because it's good politically and why not. And of course he failed to do it. Joe Biden did, by the way, with a lot of involvement from Kamala Harris.
And now it's something that I wish back when I was mayor that we had that kind of wind at our back in the city.
But it's terribly hard, you know. It's funny.
I went to his college. I thought for sure, I saw the ad and I went to it, and it turned out. I'm not a doctor, but I'll say this.
I think the really important thing to watch with him isn't the promises that he broke. Like, yeah, he broke the promise about infrastructure, he broke the promise about six percent growth. He even broke the promise he made to that January sixth mob when he said he was going to be right there with him when they marched on the catre. But actually the promises he kept are the really interesting ones, because I think they tell you what the next Trump administration, if he got one, would be like.
And he really kept two.
One was the promise he made to the Christian right to eliminate the right to choose. And the other was the promise he made to corporate America to cut taxes for corporations in the wealthy. Those are the promises he followed through on. That's what he's about. Hulk Hogan or not.
I think every that's great.
He believes that from now on, every political conversation in this country has to end with Hulk Hogan or not.
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