Hunter Biden’s Laptop - Jordan Klepper Fingers the Conspiracy

that you weren't totally qualified for? I know I have. It turns out not everyone's cut out to be a thoracic surgeon. But maybe things would have turned out differently for me if I had a famous dad, like if my dad was the President of the United States. This is the focal point of the Republican conspiracy theory around Hunter Biden, that he used his connection to his dad,

Joe Biden, to make money and overseas deals. And yes, obviously this is coming from the people who supported Donald Trump and his family as they milked every government connection they could for four years. Like an Oceans eleven movie. If it took place during the Nickelodeon Shopping Spring now if that reference is too far removed for you, then apologies in advance. Because the Hunter Biden story has so many references to things that seem fake. Cappie Milano said, oh, hawk,

the secret Willard Hotel breakfast. We probably should have made a Hunter Wicki ahead of time, just to help you through it this. Jordan Clapper fingers the conspiracy we gotta packed episode. Today. We're gonna walk through the conspiracy theory known as Hunter Biden's Laptop with a Fox News expert. Then Democratic Congressman Jerry Connolly will discuss the House of strategy responding to an investigation, and then Tiffany Cross will

talk the media's responsibility. Before we even start, you should know that it's not even proven there is a laptop. There is a hard drive copied from what a Trump supporter who owns a computer repair shop in Delaware says was a laptop that he handed over to the FBI. But nobody's seeing a picture of it, and what the hell, Let's just take his word for it. The Hunter Biden laptop saga is a fantastical right wing reverie concocted during

the campaign by Rudy Giuliani. Donald Trump and of course Fox News, which means it's inevitable that I heard the words Hunter Biden laptop constantly at Trump rallies, even if the people there didn't exactly know what it is. You can see on you know, Fox and One American News about the uh, the laptop, the Hunter Biden's laptop, and then all the crups have taken money from the different countries, you know from Russian shot. Then Joe Biden would do

whatever these countries needed. What oh he what? Either what he did or did not do? What did? What did he do? You have to be determined exactly what he did. I saw pedophilia and China something like that. Do you believe it? I don't know. We see about like the Hunter Biden scandal. What exactly happened with that? I think they found a laptop that had you know, emailed and

um there was an FBI. They found a laptop with like emails and pictures of you know, Biden talking with like Ukraine and China about business deals and stuff like that. Which Biden, Hunter Biden did it? Something that happened? I mean, the conspiracy theorists would say that it's Joe Biden and Hunter Biden communicating with you know, outside countries, own business deals and stuff like that. Are you calling him a conspiracy theorist? That's just what he said, right. Okay, let's

help these private investigators out a little bit. Joining me today is Andrew Lawrence, the deputy director of Rapid Response at Media Matters for America. Basically that means he watches Fox News all day. Andrew, thanks for being here to talk about the laptop from Hell. Yeah, of course, thank you for having me. I'm excited to finger this conspiracy with you. Oh it sounds sexy when you say Hunter Biden is sexy. It's he is. He is a sexy man. He's all over if if you're into pin up dudes

and Fox News, he's your guy. I want to jump into it because House Republicans are about to become the majority, and they've announced that they're going to investigate Hunter Biden. So let's start with just a stab Ashane who Hunter Biden is because some of the things Hunter Biden has done are probably not very becoming of a son of a public official, like using the Biden family name to make foreign business deals done. A good place to start. Yeah, I mean I think I think it's fair to say that, um,

Hunter Biden is you know, he's essentially a fail son. Um. I I think, um, he's He's had a lot of tough things happened to him in his life. You know, I think that it's it's fairly well known Joe Biden's history of tragedy with I believe it was his wife dying in a in a car accident. I know Hunter was involved in that, and and um, and you know that's something that's gonna affect you. And then his brother Bobiden as well, passing from from cancer not all that

long ago. Um. And that's sort of when, according to what I've seen, his his tails been really began. Um. But you know, I think like you're right, Like it is fair to say that that there is there's some questionable thing is there that Republicans and right wing media are trying to to glom onto this as some sort of giant scandal that's going to bring down Joe Biden and the Democratic Party. Is is a little bit ridiculous. And I mean, there's so much to get into the

weeds here. Uh, you know, you you got into it a little bit with that that nobody's really even seen this laptop yet. Um and here we are with months and months, what's it been like two years now since this first came up. I mean, I think it is fascinating. Part of the reasons we wanted to cover it one, I'm running into people on the road and it's always a go to Hunter Biden and more ofver than not. The stuff that I run into with people on the road. What is the dodge? What is the quickest thing you

can grab a hold onto. It's easy to say Hunter Biden laptop. It's harder to say what Hunter Biden's laptop contained. But I think it it's fascinating because I also think on the left, the left is trying as hard as they can not to address what is potentially on this laptop and some of the allegations, which are some some

dire allegations. Now I need a download on what I need to know about this, where the reality is, where we should be suspicions and what is the bullshit people are slinging at the board to try to distract you from something else. So so you're helping me out here with Hunter Biden. I do think it is it's important to point out it is true he's he's gone through a lot of tragedy in his life. We've seen images he's he's dealt with drug addiction. UM publicly, he's written

about that in a book. A lot of these things are things that he verifies and talks openly about. UM. He himself is an attorney and he's been a foreign lobbyist. Is that correct? Yes, And that's where some of this this drama starts too. And he's currently under investigation in Delaware as well. For I believe it's tax fraud. Um, I'm not on that, but it's something like that. And I think that's that's an important thing too. When they talk about Hunter Biden being under investigation, it's one of

belittle tax fraud. God bless investigate that tax fraud. Not for me though, I and all of my tax fraud comes from imbecility. I really don't know the difference between W and I and W four. So so don't come at me. That's just that's my naivete. Uh. But Hunter Biden is under investigation, but not exactly for the stuff that Republicans are arguing. So we got nepotis and we got corruption, we got hardware repair, we got Ukrainian gas companies.

What does that say about the nature of this conspiracy theory? Well, I think you know, we can take this. The Hunter Biden laptop is like the latest thing, right, and so you had in this every election. It seems the the Republican Party and conservative media are looking for something to grab hold of. And you said it yourself earlier that that people are fired up about this, but they don't

really know why. Right, they know Hunter Biden's laptop is something that they should be they should be upset about, and that that there's something the farious there. But you can take a look back at, you know, the um her emails, same thing. You know, nobody really knew what was what was wrong with that, but they knew that there was something wrong with it. Um uh. It proved her untrustworthiness, the same thing with you can go back to.

And also it also proves how little people know about technology. The fact that you could say emails and laptop. It's as if America is just a bunch of seventy four year old grandparents who lost remote and they're like, I don't know, it's just your controls. The magnets. It's the magnets. Who could ever figure these things out. But you just described the Republican base right there, right for the most part.

I mean that's and and so they hear Hunter Biden, they hear laptop and it just sounds it just sounds nefarious.

And then I and then you throw into this was uncovered by uh laptop repairman who contacted the FBI and and talked to the FBI, and you know it, all the Deep States involved in this now, and it's all of these little buzzwords that they've they've spent years, you know, making these into buzzwords, making these into things that Republican voters h just have a reaction to, a visceral reaction

just hearing these words, you know. At this point, and I know we're going to get into the investigations and stuff like that, but if you remember back with Benghazi, I believe it was Kevin McCarry the he was bragging about how there would not have been her emails without the Benghazi investigations. Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right, but we put together a Benghazi Special Committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping? Why

because she's untrustable? But no one would have known any of that had happened, had we may agree, and that's really the point of this. They want to investigate this laptop just so they can find something to go after Joe Biden and by extension, the Democratic Party with fun exciting Let's figure out what they're gonna what they're gonna find. So,

so let's break this down. Twenty nineteen. There's three water damage laptops, uh that allegedly Hunter Biden brings to a Delaware computer repair shop, and the shop owner, who's a Trump supporter, sees the receipt it's from Hunter Biden. Allegedly, he starts going through some of these files, notices some pictures.

He's also legally blind to the shop a press a bright and he can't he can't confirm that it was actually Hunter that dropped it off, you know, but there is a receipt with what books to be hunters Hunter's signature, so you know, give him the benefit of the doubt. So okay, Yes, there's a scene and and supposedly Hunter doesn't pay for the repair, and therefore this is where things get legal. Now there's a moral question here too, But the laptop, multiple laptops are left there for past

ninety days. So they become the the owner of the repair shop. It's now his laptop. It's it's it's his property by law. So he starts going through this stuff and he starts fighting pictures, he starts fighting emails. Like what happens next? After he he sort of connects the dots of who's whose laptop this supposedly is and what he might have on it. Okay, so this guy's name is John mac Isaac, and like you said, he's he's

a conservative Trump supporter. This is all like you said, you know, it's important to sort of set the time frame as well. This is a month I think maybe three weeks before the election something like that. So he's, uh, he's deep into this world of of right wing politics, conservative media. He's very worried about the deep state, but decide he talks to his dad about it, who I believe was formerly in the army. I believe I might be wrong about that, but his dad recommends any contacts

of local FBI field office. UM. So so he does that. The FBI comes by and apparently they seize the laptop. Um and that's it. That's the last time that the laptop was ever actually seen UM. Mr Isaac made copies of the laptop and put it onto a hard drive. UM. And then at that point, you know it's just him handing it off trying to contact Juliani. I know Steve Bannon ended up with with a copy of it. UM and and then you end up with Bannon contacting the

New York Post. And that's sort of how this became a thing. What does he think he has to begin with? He's got a laptop, it's Hunter Biden. But what what what does he thinks on the laptop that's worthy of getting it to Steve Bannon. Now, according to him, he pretty much ignored the salationous pictures, the salacious details, things

like that. He they say, they say that this thing's got a ton of that, right that all years and years of of of pictures of Hunter with UH and sexually compromising positions UH doing, using drugs, using drugs, things of that nature like that that's on there. So he claims he's not interested in that. He's not interested in that.

He says, what he's interested in more is UH the emails, particularly about UH foreign policy type stuff, hunters stealings with with agents of s China UM, and there was Barismo was the one thing that he was really focused on, according to Isaac. According to the Repairman, and Barismo was

was an energy company where Hunter received. I mean it's basically a no show job, a million dollars a year, you know, a no show job, which again, which is you know, look that sucks, um And and I mean not for not for him, you know, for him it's great, but that's like, I mean, welcome to America, right, like I mean yeah, like like the sons of politicians get million dollar a year no show jobs, and so it's not really that big of a scandal, but that's what

they're trying to turn it into, you know. Um And I'm not too much into like what about what about? But I mean we're talking about a few months after Ivanka gets those those trademarks in China for whatever it was, twenty million dollars, you know, things like that. So at that point it's it becomes Barisma. And honestly, before this interview, before I started researching this stuff again, I totally forgot

about Barisma. But this was like a huge thing. That was the big talking point that they're trying to get stick before to stick, Before that I think it is. It's a good point. It shows just how broken this system is, and I think it is true. I think folks on the left need to to look at this. And there's some shady stuff that happened, but it didn't look like there was a connection between Joe Biden having influence and the money that was paid to his son. Correct,

that's sort of where it stood. Yes, yeah, and it doesn't show that. But so now what they're doing is they need a thing, right, Conservatives just need a thing that they can repeat and what they can say. And you know, I don't know if you remember. I think there was only one presidential debate, but in that debate, Donald Trump kept yelling asking Biden who was the big guy? Who was the big guy? And that's because there was there was an email where Hunter said, I'm going to

set up a meeting with with the big guy. And conservatives are just like, all right, that proves that's Joe Biden. Joe Biden is meeting with his business partners, Joe Biden is taking money. You know, they say, that's what all of this proves, and like it doesn't, you know, I mean, all it proves is that Hunter Biden like was connected and got a bunch of money, and like there's there's there's a scandal there, but it's not like we're impeaching

Joe Biden over this stuff, you know. And yet yeah, we're probably going to be impeaching Joe Biden over all of this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, So at that point is that the smoking gun when people are talking about is there are they put you to this? This email that says maybe, am I correct that there's maybe a couple of emails that reference one the big guy, a meeting with the big guy that perhaps Hunter could have was that with Because there's there's Barisma, which is Ukraine ukraining

gas company. Yes, right, but then we also had there's a Chinese there's Chinese money in there. There's Chinese there was there was a Chinese company as well. Yeah, that was in there as well, the Chinese company. And they're paying money to to Hunter and also Joe's brother is that correct? And yeah, I mean the whole family is kind of mixed up. I mean, this is shitty. This is what are we doing where we're are a good

we're a good, clean politician. So so Joe's brothers maybe getting money from China Hunter's maybe getting money from China. I think the timeline is important here too, because there may be getting money after Joe's out of power when he when he was in an office, right, So so technically, even if Joe's getting money at that point, not illegal, but not ideal. No, not illegal and certainly not ideal. I mean, I think that's that's definitely fair. But you know,

I mean we're talking about this. It's like, all right, if you want to make make that type of stuff illegal, like make it illegal, but it's just it's it's not right now. Um, And so that's like that's the world we live in, you know, and it sucks, like it sucks, but that's that's where we're at right now. Talk to me. How the how Fox and sort of the Meca the

Medio echo chambers started to elevate this story. Yeah, so you know there was when this four story first broke the This has been shopped around a lot um by I'm pretty sure it was Juliani I guess at that point shopping this around. Wall Street Journal turned it down, so they turned up. They went with the New York Post, who ended up running this story. And so why are they turning it down this because you can't even I mean, at that point, you can't verify that that it's even

actually the laptop. Right, And again, like we we gotta remember, like what we're coming off from with with just the flood of misinformation and nonsense. And you know, I've worked on on some pretty big political campaigns, and in the last few weeks of the election, the press isn't going to just take something like out of the blue that hasn't been vetted or verified, or at least most of

the press isn't. You know, well, the press at this point was spooked because of what happened with Hillary and Trump just weeks before, correct exactly, yeah, yeah, and and this type of thing, there's just no way to vet it. I mean, you need time to verify that this is true, that there's actually a scandal here. And you know, we're three weeks, three weeks, and so I'm pretty sure that's why Wall Street Journal didn't didn't run. So the major

media outlets are not running with this. They're scared to run with it. Um uh. But now here we are a couple of years later, looking back at this even this week, CBS News has verified parts of information that's uh, the the hard drive. They still don't have a laptop. Correct. It seems as if there is some verification of what was potentially there, and there's already criticism of At the time, Facebook uh was limiting the amounts of of of stories

that were showing up around Hunter Biden. Nobody could share it, I think. I don't know if anybody could share it. Couldn't share, right, I think, And that was Zuckerberg at the at that point had been told by the FBI, uh, careful because Russian misinformation is all over the campaign, or there's a potential for it, so be on the lookout for it. Like in hindsight, was there more there there

than the media gave credit to? All right, maybe there was more there there, but what like just looking back at the firestorm that would have come out, there was no controversy known at that time other than like just Hunter Biden has a laptop, right, and the way that the conservative media and right wing media works in Unison, it would have drowned out everything else, you know. But it's about that that Steve Bannon flood the zone with

ship uh strategy. You know, you just keep throwing stuff out there, and I mean, you gotta of conservative media credit for the way that they all reply in unison and they can make a thing out of nothing. I mean, yeah, the flood, the zone of the ship Bannon strategy. This feels like this was that had so much ship you could put into that zone. Yeah, and and that's you know, that's something that he actually admitted. He said, um, Hunter Biden's laptop. You put your own obsessions into it, you know.

So for for Bannon, it was China, you know, he went he went after the China thing. For other people, it was the drugs and and the women, you know, and for others. And you just put whatever it is that you that is your obsession. You you channel that into like oh that Hunter Hunter Biden's laptop proves that that's real. I love it. It's it's a Maga Roorschek test. Yeah, yeah, exactly, star into it. See see your pecadillo staring right back at you. I think that's fascinating. When Bannon has talked

about it, Uh, correct me if I'm wrong. He had some moral issues with the idea of of putting out some of these pictures of Hunter. I mean, this is some man's privacy. It's it's his personal pictures for all the pictures of him with illicit drug use. There's pictures

of like his brother's grave site. There's all these personal emotional moments that this person put on their laptop and then now somebody else has They have their search histories, they have all these types of things and and I believe band encountered that with uh, but we're at war,

so you do it. And I think that's what's so fascinating and where we're so fucked right now, because there are legitimate things to to be curious about with this information, and we should be critical of people who have close connections to powerful people. But when it's approached by operatives who treat this not as an investigation towards justice but as war, than what you have is people acting with warlike tendencies who will stop at nothing to only win

that benefits their side, and that doesn't benefit justice. It benefits the person who is fighting and that general at that point that somebody like Steve Bannon who's trying to rip people off for building a new wall on the Mexico border at the same time, right, well, and you have to understand, like they're they're not just demanding that

the press cover Hunter Biden's laptop. Their demanding that they cover it right now the way that I want you to, you know, And like these outlets, they do have a responsibility to to vet this stuff and make sure that it's true before putting it out there, especially you know, and I don't want to repeat myself, but especially when this is something that would be used in an attempt to sway the election fast forward a couple of months from now, Uh, investigations into the laptop? Is that a

good idea for Republicans? I mean yeah, I mean why wouldn't you. That's just like targeting this one guy who is just taking advantage of the system that like we have created. Right, And but that guy, but that guy is the president's son. Is there are connections there? We should know there's no we should know there's no corruption, right, we absolutely should. Um. At the same time, this is

a system that we've got. And like, if you don't want nepotism babies or or or the children of wealthy and powerful politicians to get wealthy and powerful jobs, then like we need to change the way that we do things overall. Um. And it's it's not just him and it's not just you know, it's not just the Trump

kids either. I mean, look at the way look at the you know, the way that people the Democrats buy stocks, you know, and and then pass legislation like this is it's everywhere, and and so that's why, like I feel, just going after this one guy is, um, it's so disingenuous, you know. Um, And but yes we should know if there's corruption, Yeah, we should know. And if he did anything,

you need, what we should be in jail. Of course, if if America is going to look into the ror check test that is Hunter Biden's laptop, what do you think America begins to see him begins to pull out, It's gonna be it is. I mean, what we're gonna see. There might be something there, but what I think is that we're just going to see bullshit from Republicans. Um, they're gonna look for meetings that Hunter tried to set

up with his dad, you know. And then and then do those companies well do they do they have do they have connections to Zelenski or do they have connections to Fauci or you know, I mean you had the guy who found the laptop, Isaac. He thinks that it shows it might show proof that Hunter Biden is responsible for the COVID pandemic, that he was involved in the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and that that that he was he was responsible for creating COVID and on leashing it.

Like this is fun. Now we're talking, Yeah, can we tie him to COVID. It's gonna become a fun parlor game pretty soon. We're gonna be playing this at Christmas where it's like, can you connect Hunter Biden to COVID? Okay, can you connect it to the nets having a subpar season this year? I'm sure there will be caravan there, there will be immigration connections, you know that the it's

tend to reads of separation. All they need is to find something that maybe connects to George Soros, you know, and then all of a sudden, like, oh, Hunter Biden is involved in the Great Replacement theory. You know. It's it's things like that. So, like, I don't really know where it's gonna go, but I can tell you it's going to be a lot of bullshit, you know. I like what it's done to the Trump family, specifically the kids.

I mean, it's amazing to watch. Don Junior criticized Hunter Biden uh for saying, like how he wishes his name was Hunter Biden so he could make money off his father's name, which is it's a beautiful thing for somebody like Don Junior too to yearn for, as if that wasn't already the game plan from day one. Make a ton of money and do absolutely nothing except saying, hey, you can meet my dad. That's a disgusting trade right to just use your father's name to make money off

of that. Absolutely nepotism needs to be looked into. Big talk. Yes, what do you think about Avonka? Oh, she's so gracious. Yeah, yeah, totally amazing. I mean it's just the hypocrisy is amazing.

But like that's never bothered them before, you know, and we're seeing reports of of the foreign government spending a hundred and fifty dollars at Trump hotel, you know, and things like that, and it's like that that's why, that's why I have an issue with just like going after this one person, this you know, Hunter, you know, just targeting him because he's the president's son essentially, and like, um, I mean that's that it shouldn't happen. But like, we

need to be consistent here as well. I guess how should the media responsibly cover this as as we move forward? Essentially, what this is and what they need is you said, you know, when you go to a Trump rally, people are upset about Hunter Biden's laptop and they're not sure why. That's all they need. They need people to be upset about this, you know. And that's that's really all it's about. And and the investigations you asked what they're gonna uncover.

I mean, Lord only knows where this is gonna go, But where it's really gonna go is just keeping that drum beat, going to keep that buzz those budd words, buzzwords hunter Biden's laptop. Uh, to get that reaction from from the base. You know that you're seeing it at rallies right now. Well, if Fox News has been pushing this story for a couple of years now and recently did a a mock trial of Hunter Biden, what what

the hell was that all about? At what point did you decide, sir, to contact the Federal Pear of Investigation about this matter? When the laptop became my property and late July I proceeded to Uh, kind of research what was on it to make sure that what I had seen was what I perceived a criminal activity. God, I forgot about that. Oh my god, it was so funny. It was so funny. Um. Yeah, And they had like a whole jury and everything, and Judge Joe Brown was

the judge. We'll tell me before we let you go, walk me through a little bit as somebody who watches this for folks who aren't watching Hannity, cover this and amplify this story. How has handed A taken to this in the last few years. It is I mean, it's just the NonStop drum beat, you know. And I think what you have to understand about Sean Hannity is his show is just like a stream of right wing consciousness.

It is just these US words. It's Nelly or it's the FBI love birds, it's I mean, he still talks about Hillary Clinton's emails, you know, And so he is he really is, more so than anybody else on that network. I think he is the king of these these bullshit conservative buzzwords, you know. And one of the buzzwords he's what are the ones he's creating for the Hunter Biden story. Well, it was Bizma. You know a couple of a couple

of years ago was Bizma. Um. Now he just calls him zero experience Hunter, Barisma Oil and Gas company, and zero Experience Hunter is fifty year old son Bisma. Zero experience Hunter got millions. And that's not all. The report even found evidence linking zero Experience Hunter to allege human trafficking. Quit pro quote Joe zero Experience Hunter, Barisma. Now if you're not, if you're not in that bubble, in that

conservative bubble, what that refers to. He got the Brezma deal, you know, a million dollar a year, no show all the other boards that he said on, you know, but zero zero experience Hunter. That's Sean Hannity's thing. You know, he just keeps saying it over and over again. Um. And then he uses this as as an example of the FBI be and out of control, the d o J targeting conservatives and not going after Democrats. How there's no such thing as equal justice under the law in America.

I mean, I could I could do an entire Sean Hannity monologue right now, like just based off of Hunter's laptop, because it's the same it's the same thing every single night But what Hannity understands is that it's that repetition. It's that repetition that leads to the people outside the Trump rallies being upset about Hunter Biden's laptop. You know, you say this stuff over and over and over and

over again, it just becomes accepted as truth. Um, same thing that that you know, crime and inflation are going to be the top issues in the election. You know, it's just they keep saying that stuff and it becomes the reality. And and uh yeah, zero experience. Hunter would would definitely be Handedy's favorite buzzword though on this. And

you know I deal with this as well. It's it's that balance between like this is hilarious, this is so funny versus like this is dangerous and like actually scared or that so many people believe it, um And and it's you know, it's about the conservative movement taken advantage

of those people, I think more than anything else. How much is that an element in the Hunter Biden story, because what does get glossed over is this is a man's private cache of his his communications, his search histories, and his his relationship with his family and his his his loved ones. Um. It is something to just dumb out everything that was on your phone run your laptop for the world to see. It feels like we don't even grapple with the idea of whether or not we should.

We just jump right to whether or not we could right, Yeah, exactly. And it's um, you know, as far as I know that, like you said, this laptop if if it is his laptop, it seems to be acquired legally, you know, but it's it's horrifying. And we saw this. We've seen them do this quite a bit. Actually, if you remember Peter Strock and uh was at least a page. I think they're like they're they're sexty and like became public and was was thrown up on Fox News every single night. You know,

they will do this if they have an opportunity. I think there was also, and I don't know if you were aware of this, but Biden's daughter's diary was stolen and that never came out because there's serious legal implications into that right now. But Tucker Carlson has seen it and he sits there and he regurgitates parts of it

and stuff like that. I mean, this is I think she was pretty young, maybe late teens, early teens when when she was writing this, and you know, if you watch Tucker, he'll throw in every single once in a while, he'll throw in that Hunter us Joe used to shower with his daughter because apparently there's a passage in there about about that when she was younger, which you know, um, but it's yeah, it's that type of stuff. It's that's

what they don't care. They don't have morals, and that's why it's so silly for you know, when when Steve Bannon said, like, yeah, it kind of it kind of feels gross, but like we're at war, Like no, that's just your justification for doing it. Like, I don't think it feels gross to Bannon. You know, he's a gross, disgusting guy made of you know, spores and loose skin.

I don't know how you know, the Bannons and the Tuckers and the Hannities, you know, they really speak towards family values and bringing back the morality to America in civility. And how are you going to smash the pedophiles if you don't go through the diary of a teenager? Thank God that they're all very normal people. Thank you well. Andrew thank you for talking to us. Yeah, of course, this is so much fun, man, I really appreciate it.

After the break, I'll be joined by Congressman Jerry Connolly. We'll be talking about his role on the House Oversight Committee and how he plans to approach the investigation on Hunter Biden's laptop. Welcome back to Jordan Clapper Fingers the conspiracy. We're talking about Hunter Biden's laptop because Republicans won the House and apparently that's the issue that they think Americans care about the most. To be clear, Joe Biden is

the big guy. This evidence raises troubling questions about of the President Biden is a national security years and about whether he is compromised about foreign government. That was James Comer, the incoming chairman of the House Oversight Committee, announcing the upcoming investigation into Hunter Biden and the laptop. For those of you who think government committee hearings are dry and sterile,

I have one word for you, Benghazi. You can bet all your crypto that House Republicans will use the Hunter Biden hearings to make it seem like an explosive scandal worthy of impeachment. So we're gonna talk to a Democrat who sits on that committee right now to see what that's going to be like. How fun, Congressman Jerry Connelly

and Virginia thanks for joining the podcast. My pleasure, Jordan. So, Congressman, it's a guarantee that these hearings are going to get coverage in the mainstream media, which means there's gonna be a lot of baseless allegations coming from Republicans that will be aired on news channels, and there's only so much fact checking that journalists can do. Do you see your role on this committee as part fact checker? Oh? Yeah, We've been through this before, and I think I think

it's really important joy to put it in context. Right, So, when the Republicans were in the majority last time, and we had a Democrat in the White House, President Obama for six years, they breathlessly presented and the media unfortunately was complicit in giving them exactly what they wanted headlines, Uh, endless breathless stories, Hillary Clinton's emails. You mentioned Benghazi, uh Lois Lerner and the I R S Fast and furious Obamacare.

Uh you know, uh funding solar Uh solar energy and the great scandal of the waste of all of that. Not one of those so called investigations led to anything anything, not an indictment, not a trial. I mean, it was all uh, you know, sound and fury, all done for one purpose, to undermine two political figures, President Obama and Hillary Clinton. And unfortunately, the mainstream media, as you point out,

doesn't spend much time doing fact checking itself. Um. And you know they'll ask people like me, well you know, well, Congressman, you know they they assert, they allege, and I'm thinking, well, even framing a question that way gives it credence when there may be none. The supposition behind that question is completely false, based on either fabrication, distortion, insinuation, or no facts whatsoever. Uh. And that doesn't seem to matter, and so it kind of puts us in a disadvantage when

we even get asked those questions. Uh. It's not unfair to ask them, but it sure would be nice if the media took a little responsibility now and then, uh, instead of absolving itself and allowing the uh inst snuation that there's something to this. So, I mean, you know what's coming. What is your strategy? Are you going to attempt to discredit the very nature of this investigation itself.

Do you call attention to the Fox News fever dream that this whole thing is or or do you admit that there are some elements of Hunter Biden's activity that is in of itself worth investigating. I'm certainly not an advance going to conceive anything they're asserting is worth investigating, and I AM going to spend a lot of time talking about what should be investigated that they don't want

to talk about. For example, in the same press conference where you cided, you know, James Coohmer said, well, why don't we just stop, you know, stick with Hunter Biden. That's what I want. That's really what I want to focus on. If we can keep it about Hunter Biden. This is kind of a big deal. We think if we can keep it about Hunter Biden, that would be great.

He admitted he didn't want to focus on the fact that illegally President Trump has kept classified documents in Mara Lago against the law and lied about it and is being investigated as we speak, for criminal behavior with respect to that. Well, uh, I thought you wanted genuine oversight.

That's a genuine oversight issue. Now, of course, the world is replete with similar genuine oversight issues when it comes to Trump and his acolytes and his administration, not one of which, not one of which Republicans want to look at. They never supported a single subpoena when they were in the majority and Trump was in the White House for anything having to do with oversight of the Trump administration,

not one what. We may need to elect an entire House of representatives to to deal with the issues and investigate all of those Trump era issues. But I guess I'm curious, Like it's always easy for us to for both sides to to point out what the other side should be looking into, and I think this is it's pretty clear in a situation like this. However, there are details within this Hunter Biden story that do rub people

the wrong way. People on both sides of the aisle are skeptical of somebody who is this close to the president United States being close to foreign governments at a time where the details are sketchy, Although we know it's going to be weaponized and you know the show that is going to be put on, what do you say to those people who are like, I'm still I'm still nervous about this situation and do think we should investigate that.

Do you say, yes, we should, but this is not the place where they will get a fair investigation, or do you just discredit that idea on its surface? Well, anyone who thinks that this would be a fair investigation, you know, balanced there, Let the truth come out. Uh, it's spoke of something, because that is not the motives top rounding. It is very clear the Republicans have already

I've been saying this for several years. Right, don't forget it was Donald Trump who committed a criminal act, we felt, and he was impeached for it with respect to Hunter because he was extorting a foreign leader with our military assistance, which now we know was badly needed in the Ukraine, Uh, in order to get political dirt on Hunter by So, so the whole so called investigation it's tainted going back

to that what Trump called perfect phone call um. And so I'm not going to provide any legitimacy to that line of inquiry unless something is presented to me that would qualify for yeah, all right, that's traveling. We have to look at it. So I'm not going to concede that at all in advance. And i am going to point out that, you know, what little fact checking has been done in the press about this, and I cite Glenn Kessler the Washington Post just sort of their official

fact checker. You know, they're looking at one email out of something like a hundred thousand that is subject to interpretation. They're looking at some great scandal about keys uh to an office in Spain that kind divided in fact never picked up, but that somehow that's a big conspiracy. I would say, there's really thin gruel here so far. And the idea that we're gonna put the entire weight of the Oversight Committee of the United States Congress behind such

anemic evidence and then gruel uh worries me greatly. But as part of the pattern of my friends on the other side of the aisle, going back to Dan Burton and Clinton, I mean, maybe this shows that it is a dying fire and these are the embers if we've gone from but her emails too, but his email singular, maybe that showing progress in some way. Uh, you bring

up something interesting. You've been on this committee for years. Uh. Some of these Republicans, Jim Jordan's, Andy Bigs, Andrew Clyde, they love a good conspiracy they've denied election was real spread January six, conspiracy theories. How can you use your platform on the committee to help a viewer who maybe doesn't know their context. How do you let them understand

the full context of where they're coming from? The good news about our processes when we have a markup of legislation or when we have a hearing, Uh, we Democrats get equal time. Uh. And and and you know that's why the leadership of our committee is going to really matter. Can we cohere uh and forge our voice as one to push back, get the facts out, tell the truth, and puncture their false narratives in an effective way. Uh. That is critical when you're in the minority and you're

defending a democratic white House. Um. And if you don't do that, you know they controlled the narrative. So fighting for control of the narrative and making sure that you repeat, rent, and repeat when it comes to facts. Do not assume that, having said it once, it's in everybody's head. That's not

how human beings work. And in our media market today, given the multiplicity of sources of news, accurate and falls uh and everything in between, you've got to really spend time making sure that the truth penetrates consciousness, UH and and public opinion? What does that look like? What are some of the taxics there? I think I think about the January six hearings, which many people would say are have been effectively communicated. Perhaps a lesson there is just

don't invite the other side of the table. It's really easier to get your point across. UH. Perhaps is the use of video. Perhaps it's just the repetition of baseline facts like are there are there elements that you could draw from uh, from from from those hearings that you'd like to bring to the forefront here. I think we talk about and gasy, We talked about those things. You know, you know the machine that is going to be behind this narrative. So how do you get out ahead of it?

How do you change what democrats did six years ago to be more effective in the upcoming year. I don't think there's any one tactic, but there are a lot of tools in the kit bag, and one of them is humor. I remember once they were you know, you got the Democrats are gonna rely on humor? Oh, oh my god, what do we do it? Congressman of your sweet spot? I'm sorry, I'm irish, And how do you use humor? I'll give you an example. We we had a career civil servant from I R S. And the

Republicans hauled her before our committee. They were in the majority, and her job was to enforce the provision and the Affordable Care Act that you would be fine if you didn't have health insurance by the way. Provision that was a Republican idea that was hrined in Romney Care in Massachusetts that we took up. But every they just excoriated her. And you know, I was getting agitated waiting my turn, and I thought, you know, there's another better which I'm

gonna say that. And then I thought, you know, that's not the effective way of making the point. And they're looking for a headline tomorrow that's gonna say Republicans accused I R S Official love, you know, subverting American freedom or something. And so I I when it came down to I turned, I said to her, so you're under oath? She went yes. I said, I want to remind you you're under oath. She went okay. I said, have you been consorting with the devil? Not? To my knowledge, sir,

our reports that you can fly accurate, uh, greatly exaggerated. Sir, have you been involved in any way and trying to pervert our youth in Salem or anywhere else? I certainly hope not, sir. You sure yes, sir M. The looks on their faces like what is Oh my god god, because people were now laughing. Well, the next day the headline instead of the one the Republicans wanted was I R. S Official denies consorting with devil. People were howling with laughter.

It completely punctured their narrative. So sometimes humor can be a tool too. But a lot of this is too serious. I mean, honestly, what's so interesting? Because I I hear you on that, and I do think it's it's almost in an example like that, we've been talking a little bit about the Steve Bannon um flood, the uh flood flood, the narrative with bullshit, get it out there, like how

much of it of it is? That? Are? We? Are we using humor in that sense to be like we know what people are going to click on, we know what people are going to talk about, and if we can be outlandish in our approach, Uh, from a satirical point of view, that can Trump somebody else being outlandish from perhaps a more politically advantageous point of view. Absolutely. There was another time they had an FBI official who had privately expressed support for Demo for I'm sorry, I

had privately expressed criticism of Donald Trump. This is early in Trump's tenure, and they were just again excoriating him. So when it came down to my turn, I started reading criticisms of Trump without identifying who said it, and I said, so, that was you, right, And before the witness could answer, I went, oh, no, I'm sorry, that was Mark A. Ruby, a Republican senator, And then I just went to you know, and and of course by the time I was finished, people again we're you know,

snidely chuckling. But it completely exposed the hypocrisy of the Republicans for attacking this guy for criticizing Trump. Went at the same time, they were doing it too, Congressman, I got, I gotta say, using hypocrisy as a stand in for humor, that's my lane. So back off. You're gonna use Rubio's words against him and the whole GOP and what else

do we have out there? It's dangerous business. But you know what, it goes to the old line a friend of mine, humorous Jim Borne wants used to say, if you're gonna be a phony, at least be sincere about it. It feels like a lot of the Republican strategy is to work the refs, bully the mainstream media into covering it as a legitimate, massive scandal. Do you think that's working. I think it works all too well, all too often. And that's why we have to be much better at

our game. Uh And and that's why we have to be discipline and coordinated. I mean, you can't this can't be one off. This can't be one road member who maybe is effective, but everybody else is doing that thing. And that's why you know, in the minority especially, our committee is going to have to be organized, strategic, and as I said, discipline both the messaging and in the attack of their narrative. You know what's the best way to do that to get the truth to the American

people and through the media. Have you thought about starting an improv group if you're going to utilize both humor and teamwork with a coherent message, perhaps some sort of yes and exercise some trust falls. I know a lot of out of work people in Chicago right now who could come, get on a plane and teach you guys some basics of improv to save democracy. I have enjoyed improv in Chicago myself for many years. Uh, and it can be It can be very useful, but uh uh.

It's not a substitute though, for discipline, narrative discipline, lines of questioning and taking the fight to the other side when they are propounding fabricated narratives, when they are distorting facts, peddling conspiracy theories that are without foundation, and sometimes just flat out making it up. They don't. They don't have a compunction about that. We do, which is sometimes to our disadvantage. Although I'd rather be where we are than they are, but that means we've got to be doubly

more effective in puncturing what they're doing. What Congressman, you sound like my parents. Improv, although valid, is no substitute for real hard work and fact checking. I get it. I should be a doctor or an architect. I think we can both agree. If the fate of our democracy lies on improv, we might be in a bad place. Um. I'm curious, do you think House Republicans are planning on using this investigation as a basis to impeach President Biden.

I mean, there's a crowd of them that's already decided that's what they want to do. I think I think they would have trouble right now selling that to enough people in their own caucus to have the votes. Frankly, there is a there is a dwindling group of more and sense Republicans and moderate Republicans who are very uneasy about the hard ideological tilt of the Freedom Caucus and their accolates and would like to find a way to

reassert themselves. And what they believe, uh is what's going to be necessary if the Republicans are really ever gonna be successful again in American political life, uh, in terms

of a real serious, working majority. I think that there are some built in breaks on that, And what I predict is that the Republicans and our Committee will do what they always do, which is overreach, right, And when they do that, they lose public support and they lose credibility, and in this particular case, they're likely to alienate some of those more moderate members of their caucus, albeit in

dwindling numbers. They need to get to a t do you think that you really think they will alienate It feels like there's there's rarely any pushback or political repercussions for for appearing hawkish and overstepping. Yes, but you asked about impeachment. Impeachment is a different matter. Uh, And you do think that is a line for most Americans? Do you think they will see that just as a craven

partisan overreach. Yeah, I don't think anybody in America. Well, let me with I. I simply don't think that's the majority opinion at all, not even close. That there's something unseemingly about Joe Biden that desperately needs to be investigated. And we just had a midterm election. They tried out that thing. It didn't work. You know, Americans did not vote to have, you know, hard line accountability for Joe Biden because he's getting away with stuff. And that's why

we need a Republican majority. They barely got a majority, they and they didn't get one in the U. S. Senate. They lost governor seats net, they lost legis seats net, and they barely won the House. So I hardly think that's a mandate to go at it um and and that says something about I'm not saying that Americans don't want accountability. They're not persuaded that Joe Biden has done

anything that merits that kind of Uh. You know which huh Uh Congressman, are you optimistic going into this next year that the American public will be able to sift through and see through the bs. We live in a world with so much in front of us, right, you know, we don't live anymore where in a world where you know, I get my news in the evening broadcast for thirty

minutes on one of three choices. Those days are long gone, right, So this this fog of news and data being presented to me an opinion, and I'm somehow expected to separate the truth from the non truth or the half truth, and the facts from the fiction. So that's why it's so important we do our jobs and do them well, that we help the American uh, listener, viewer, voter separate what's true from what is not true. Uh. And Uh, that's as I said, why I think our committee is

going to be on the front line of this this struggle. Uh. And it's a struggle as much for the truth as it is for political advantage. Or or partisan gang. Well, Congressman Jerry Connelly, thank you so much for joining the podcast and pleasure let me know if you need any punch ups on jokes. I work for cheap and I'd like to help this democracy. I'll come back to you on IMPROV. Thank you. After the break, we're going to

be joined by author and journalist Tiffany Cross. We're gonna dive even more into media coverage behind Hunter Biden's laptop. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Jordan clipper Fingers. The conspiracy we're talking about Hunter Biden's laptop basically the right wing fever dream that a MacBook pro that was left at a computer repair shop in Delaware proves that the Biden family was doing corruption in Ukraine. And that was before it was cool to know about stuff in Ukraine.

And also China is involved. Obviously, if you watch Fox News or news Max or max News or Real American Truth or any other right wing media that sounds like it was created by a Steve Bannon word generator, you're probably extremely familiar with the weird details of the Hunter Biden saga. But if you get your news from real places, you might only know some of it, and that creates

a minor dilemma. House Republicans are about to start investigating Hunter Biden, and that means it's probably going to get a lot of coverage on mainstream outlets. So if the role of the news media is to cover what's happening but also to stop the spread of misinformation, what our journalists supposed to do here to help us answer that question, we're gonna talk to Tiffany Cross, an author, journalist, cable news veteran, and until recently she was the host of

The Cross Connection on MSNBC. Tiffany, thanks so much for talking to us here today. Thanks for having me Jordan, It's great to be connected today. Yes. So, this, this Hunter Biden laptop story poses uh an interesting problem for the news media. On one hand, it's an obsession fan by right wing trolls who most of the time can

be ignored. But on the other hand, Republicans are taking over the House of Representatives and they're gonna launch congressional investigations into it, hoping for media coverage that makes the investigation look like a legitimate process. So I guess the big question is, can you have a legitimate investigation into something run by the people who think January six was Antifa, right, I would say no, and I wish that more people in the news media would be so direct and honest

about that. UM. You know, when we talk about corruption in this whole incident with a Hunter Biden campaign UM or the Hunter Biden laptop rather in Ukraine, I think it's really important to remember what the Ukraine story is, and that is that Donald Trump was trying to hold up hundreds of millions of dollars in support for Ukraine because he wanted President Zelinsky to investigate his political rivals. That is the story. The counterpoint to that story was

Republicans trying to institute this laptop storyline. And so when you have UM people who employ UM the logic of bad actors like UM Lauren Berbert or Marjorie Taylor Green, UM, who will have committee assignments, you know, the Republicans have taken have taken over the House. Now we don't know what leadership looks like. We don't know who the Speaker of the House will be. Kevin McCarthy is quite embroiled

in his own battles. UM. I think it is very dangerous to pretend that these are intellectual people that these are people acting in good faith, or that these are people who give a damn about democracy because they don't to your point, they said January six was in Tifa. We have seen um quite blatantly. Uh, these folks lie. They have said um that you know, they were like tourists walking through the capital, even though we saw Republican

members of Congress themselves helping to barricade a door. And so it seems to be yet again a lesson that the news media has not learned, and they make such great overtures um to this right wing extremist Republican party, and they have not yet accepted what we as all Americans, have witnessed, and that is there are no right wing extremist and a separate group of Republicans. These two factions

have merged. And so if you're going to turn over political investigations to right wing extremists, then you're going to essentially um waive the white flag um on democracy and say goodbye. This is feels like the series finale of the Great American Experiment, and as you can see, it ain't going so well. Tune in everybody, I guess it

brings an interesting questions. Though you're right, they may they may not believe in the tenets of democracy, But is there a point of view in and of itself news which should be covered Because people will look at this Hunter Biden laptop story and it is in many way you used as a distraction, But there is news to be made in there. There is perhaps an investigation that could happen around this, whether or not it's a legitimate one. Who knows. If you bring up people like Lauren Bobert.

A lot of times, the news doesn't have to report on all of the wilder things that perhaps somebody like a Bobert will say. But then you'll have people like Kevin McCarthy, who very well could be the leader of the House, who will repeat those talking points. So what do you say to a journalist who says, if Kevin McCarthy is the Speaker of the House and he says something that means that it is news that must be reported, I think it's fine to report that through the proper context.

I think what we have seen is the news media goes out of its way to present um something that is factual or something that is at least based in some level of intellect. And then they will take something asinine and present both of these things as though they

are equal in thought. So if I say, hey, Jordan's it's raining outside, and it's in fact raining outside, and you say, well, there are purple unicorns falling from the sky outside, the answer to that is not, well, some say it's raining outside, and some say there are purple unicorns, uh, you know, falling from the sky. We'll let you decide. We're fair and balance. That's bullsit and we ought to

be honest about that. And I think, you know, I think why you have so much of that is because again one of my big passions, um, through my my career has been newsroom diversity. And so when you have people in these newsrooms who make these overtures to Trump fanatics, you know, to these cult members who are believers, um, of of the Maga doctrine that you so brilliantly highlighted um in your comedic reporting for the Daily Show, You've

done better reporting the most journalists out there, UM. And just let these people talk and say what they believe. We have guns and we are now the streets. Can I ask wire carrying a pitchfork? Well, pittsfork is a just iconic representation of how of what people over time have done. In this it feels rulling a weapon's farm equipment and it's legal in this, in this in the city, are you farming today? It's it's it's a representation. We're

not asking for violence right now. I gotta tell you from the movies I've seen, the hordes of people with pitchforks are usually the bad guy. And when you have people who say, well, you know, all these people aren't so bad because my my grandmother is a trunk supporter and she's my nanna and she's so sweet, or my dad supports Trump. I try to talk him out at it, but he still believes that. But they're not bad people. Me on the other side, I'm saying, I'm sorry to

tell you, but they actually are pieces of ship. You know, these are horrible people who are supporting a horrible man who says horrible, racist, xenophobic, misogynistic things. And if you can't call your family out on that, then that is a problem because now you're penetrating the atmosphere where it's supposed to be truthful in for me, saan um and and not you know, a sympathy fest for people who would see folks who look like me m oppressed, and

that has created such a chasm in media Jordan. It is it is two people have now tuned out media. I mean, you look at cable news and it's really a melting ice cube at this point. And when people do not trust um that there is no reputable outlet where they can get this kind of information, they find their news and information from other sources, and those sources are not always reputable. And we saw what happened with

that in sixteen. A lot of people felt like their lived experience was reflected in an Internet mean what we later learned that was the you know, Internet Russia agency, who also did not care about American democracy. And when they looked at this country and said how can we mess with American democracy? It took them all of two months to say, oh, white supremacy, that's it. That's how that's their greatest weakness and we will tap into that.

And this is really an extension of that philosophy. I can't wait for the Tiffany Cross how to do Thanksgiving with relatives book, call the pieces of ship out and move on my Thanksgiving. We don't have that problem, But a lot of people's tables they do. And I think that is that you know, with with with allies and people who you know want to get in this fight.

It's like, yes, start in your own home, challenge your own family, because it is not my job to convince the you know, willfully ignorant people um to not believe in a man who's lying to them um. And it is not my job to extend empathy or sympathy to people who feel that way. I don't know how to meet a bigot in the middle. So if that is how people feel, it's start there, start there, at your own table. And that brings up an interesting question because I do think that's a question I get on the

road a bunch. Are you ever able to change somebody's mind or what have you? And that's not the intention of the pieces that we go out to do. I think more often than not, it's to confront people with logical fallacies that we see back home and see what the reality is uh in the field. But I do think it's interesting it's somebody a member of the media,

there is this as of here. There's a chasm also a bad information that people are getting, and I do think you want to have empathy for those people who have been getting given such misinformation? How do you balance the deliverance of of real news with UH The idea of of of showing a certain amount of empathy and an outrage towards perhaps voices and people who who who are willing to meet in the middle. Well, I would

challenge the first part of empathy, UM. I think if you do have empathy, UM Jordans for some of the folks who have spoken with, that's not such a bad thing. UM. You know, perhaps I can understand that as long as you're not asking me to have empathy. UM. I do not have empathy for people who have bought into UM a lie or a myth or a system that means my oppression. I don't have any empathy for such people

at all. I actually think the country would be better off, UM without those people having an influence on what this democracy looks like or how this government works. But that

is not the way American democracy was designed. I think when it comes to reporting these things, UM, and in the media landscape, UM, you run the risk of having a large number of the population I would call the rising majority, UM tune you out when you're when your perspective, when the starting point is we have empathy for these people who feel this way, because you do not hear people saying, well, look, the Nazis were fed a bunch of bad information. We have to have empathy for them.

Get the funk out of here, like we would never say that, we would never believe that, you know. And so why am I being asked to have empathy for the people who would see me stay in a dilapidated community, sending my children to dilapidated schools, living in run down neighborhoods and say, well, well that's just how it goes because they can't win, because if they win, that means I'm losing. I have no empathy. TV, I gotta see.

If you don't think people are showing empathy towards Nazis, you're just not on Twitter anymore, right, and elon my Twitter, it is the land of empathy Nazis, I would say, it's it's a surprisingly popular opinion that's really somehow coming back in Vogue, I guess I have a question who makes those decisions about what gets covered and what doesn't get covered at a network level, is its anchors? Is it producers, news executives. Is there a conversation that happens

in the newsroom. Well, it's a variety of things, and I think it all depends on the news room. You know, broadcast has a different set of rules in print. UM. When I was in cable news, I made the decisions about UM what I covered on my show, but I did not do so without a fight. UM. You know, there are assignment desk, assignment editors, UM, and there are people who oversee UM and people who oversaw my show.

And it was always a fight because UM, you know, it's like the echo chambers, right, Like the three news networks are covering mostly the same things. I mean, now you know Fox would be an outlier and you know, still cover Hilary's emails. But for the most part, people were covering the same stories throughout the day. I was very intentional about disrupting that and UM talking about stories UM that impacted communities of color policy, UM, you know,

people who live below the poverty line. I wanted to have conversations UM that we're being had in the corner office as well as the barbershop, as well as the beauty salon UM, as well as on the block, you know, for the the old men who sit outside in front of the you know, convenience store all day. I wanted everyone to feel like they had a home. Um, and

I wanted to reflect the lived experience of everyone. But we talked a lot on this show about the tragedy of America's mysteronal mortality rates, especially the disparity that claims black and Indigenous women at three times the rate as white women. Imagine being without clean water for six straight days. Well, that's the reality right now for the one hundred and fifty thousand residents of Mississippi's largest city. Man all right,

after centuries of genocide and oppression. Imagine seeing your ancestors stolen belongings sit in a museum and you're told you can't have them, you can't touch them or even photograph them. Um. You take something even as simple as the economy, right. Um. You know a lot of people, you know in these morning news shows and they say, oh that the economies do well. Um, you know, the market is up, and

it's like the market is not the economy. And if you go and talk to people in my pre gentrified neighborhood, they would not say the economy is doing well. You take labor reports and they're like, oh, we added x amount of new jobs, and here's the unemployment numbers. Well, that's the overall unemployment numbers. But when you disaggregate that data and look at unemployment for black people, for Latino people, we feel disrespected when you say, oh, the jobs reports

numbers are great. And so the more UM that people uh kind of centralize um white perspective and white voices, it leaves so many people out. And so when you talk about news room diversity and who makes these decisions, don't come tell me that you just hired you know, uh, you know of people of color and women and they're all entry level employees or mid level management. Put those people in the c suite. Put those people in decision making positions so they can disrupt the echo chambers in

a meaningful way. Because what is its twenty five year old to do When a fifty five year old is in charge of the entire newsroom and they're making a decision that runs contrary to the lived experience or beliefs system UM or you know, experiences of the rising majority.

They don't always have or feel the sense of agency to challenge that, and so when they don't have that, they either exit the business or they become a part of this machine that keeps doing the same thing over and over and it never gets disrupted or changed forever.

Those battles that you're having in the newsroom with your show on MSNBC, The Cross Connection, how much did you have to split your time being the host of that show, helping create the narrative of that show, the stroys you wanted to to cover, and also what sounds like a teacher of this experience, did you did you find yourself having put on those two hats and were you surprised

by that culture at MSNBC. Yes, I put on those hats out every day, and so what I found on my show is I would have to do something to please network executives UM, and then I would have to do the rest of my program to please the viewers. And those things often went like this. You know, if I was going to please the executive is fine, I will do two segments on Trump, because that's what everybody wanted,

you know, the networking factors wanted to talk about Trump. UM. However, if you know UM, you know one of the members of the group MiGs was murdered, Well, that was something that a lot of people were talking about, especially on the hills of so many other hip hop artists being murdered. So that was going to be something to please viewers. Um. If there was a story about Indigenous communities, um, you know, having to travel over two hours to vote, that was

something that was going to please viewers. If we were going to do something on the Asian American Pacific Islander community being the fastest growing demographic UM in the country, but yet no political parties are reaching out to them, that was something that was going to please viewers. And so you know, the way my bank account was set up, I had to at least do some things to um please network executives. But it was always my mission, um

you know. And I would encourage you know, anybody who wants to pursue any career when you are mission driven, and I was mission driven, and my mission was for the equality and liberation of Condigenous and people of color the rising majority of the country. That was my mission. And so nothing was going to sway me from that mission.

And I knew if I ever fell out of favor with network executives, that would have to be okay, because my mission was to elevate the lived experiences and to to hold the line for the people who were very much architects of this country and very much deserve to have their voices and perspectives heard. Um, particularly after centuries

of being so violently silenced. No, I mean your your show was canceled days before the mid terms, four days before the mid terms an important voice in this conversation and made a lot of news. And there are a lot of questions how much how much did you find that your personal mission was out of touch with whatever MSNBC's mission was. Um, well, I felt that pretty early on UM. Every week I had to defend and fight for segments that we did. Uh. You know that I

feel it? Did that feel contrary to what other hosts at MSNBC we're having to do with their own shows. Yeah, you know, I would say my colleague Joy Read and I probably had the most um pushback on our shows. Um, but there were also things that other hosts would do that would make it easier for us, which again is problematic. Um, my colleague are Melbourg. Um, you know it's a big hip hop fan. If you watch five minutes at his show.

You know that he quotes rap lyrics all the time. UM. And it was fine when the white man did it. You know, when the white man didn't, it made it easier for everybody else to do it. But let the black woman start out doing that, and it would have been a major problem, a major problem. But he was celebrated for doing that. Tip it it was it was never fine when a Melbourne did that. It was never fine.

That was never accepted amongst the audience members. Well, he used to get rap artists on his show, and you know they they seem to you know, play into it. But either way, UM, you know, you look at Morning Joe, my former colleagues Joe and Mika. I mean we got the term Moscow Mitch for um, Joe Scarborough. UM. But if you know, you know, if if Joy or I you know, were to to say something similar, it was like, hey,

we don't really want name calling. UM. But even if you take it out of MSNBC and just look at the media landscape in general, um, and some of the more colloquial conversations that happened when it comes to voters, there were so often in the media landscape that you would hear terms like um, soccer moms, uh, Nascar dads. Well, those were all euphemisms for white voters. And it's not that black people could not you know, have that same um moniker as well. But we understood what that to me?

What that what those terms meant. It did not feel inclusive of, um, the black experience, which is the biggest voting block when it comes to Democratic to the Democratic Party, and so UM, even when they did voters of the heart land. Um, you know, you go to these diners, um in the middle of nowhere where apparently no black people have ever been or ever eaten, And that was voters of the heartland. But why not go to a basketball game in southwest Atlanta after it let out and

talk to the parents there? Are they not voters of the heartland in a purple state, I'd add, um, why can't we have like basketball dead dad's or you know, the untie voting black or something that reflects my lived experience. Even when you have UM candidates on and you'd have you know, these Democratic candidates, and the anchor would always press them, how are you going to appeal to these red state voters? How are you going to you know, get these Trump voters who's at home? It's how are

they going to come over to you? I have yet to see somebody ask a Republican mega voter, how are you going to appeal you want to penetrate democratic cart. How are you going to appeal the base vote? Are black voters your party seems to outstand for a lot of things that runs contrary to what black voters want. How are you going to appeal to them? How are you going to appeal to the changing demographics? People of color are increasingly becoming the base vote. What are your

policies that speak to that demographic? Those things never happened. I was never able to get Republicans to come out on my show because they did not want to answer those types of questions. But Access Journalism would grant at you an interview with Tad CRUs Or, Marjorie Taylor Green, or Um the guy Um, the Synate guy, the Senate candidate Ron Johnson, the Trump accolyte who was running for Senate UM in Wisconsin. He would happily go on those shows if he knew it was going to be an

easy interview. And that does not serve anybody but the anchor itself. It certainly does not serve viewers or voters.

And you bring up an entertry point. It is in twixteen, after the media landscape was quote unquote surprised by the red wave, the Trump is um there there was all you saw was anchors in these small little diners, And now we have this midterm election where everybody is shocked by the blue whether whether you call it the blue pushback right there, We're not seeing anybody go to these

other democratic areas and try to figure them out. I guess I think you're you're you're hitting on something that uh that there are a lot of progressives out there who look at a place, who look at the media landscape. Everybody's picking their own media outlets to try to tell them perhaps the story that they think one elucidates the world that they see, or the story that makes them feel better about themselves more often than not. Uh, there are those places in the mass media market that people

look at. We don't have to go all that on MSNBC, but I do know that as a place for a lot of people who look at that as having a left leading perspective, who will take in a lot of these considerations and I think hearing some of your stories here is depressing to hear that even even these ideas of being inclusive in the stories that we tell is meeting such resistance at at these levels. Like where do

you see these stories being able to be told? Clearly we know where they need to be able to be told. Where are you seeing examples of them being told? Well, I think social media has really democratized who has a voice in this space, which has come was great benefits to democracy, but also to some of our demise. Right, Like we talked at little bit about Twitter, UM, which you know, you have superstars on Twitter who we really

don't know who they are, We just know their avatar. UM. You know, you have people who just create these YouTube shows, UM, who can just declare themselves journalists who might not have the journalistic acumen to really interview UM. The podcast Drink Champs, you know, and they had Kanye UM on that podcast, Well that wasn't a journalist, you know, that was somebody having a drink with Kanye. So there wasn't the space

to challenge some of the things that he said. UM. And so you know, I think the good thing about it is their space and it has made everybody wake up and say, well, wait a second, Um. You know a lot of people are getting their news from other places, like the Daily Show. Quite honestly, UM, and I have been a long long time fan of the Daily Show, but I do think, well, that should not be your only news outlet. You know, you do have to supplement that even my show. And people would say I don't

watch any news except for your show. It would make me a little nervous because it's like, well, I'm a perspective host, and you know I'm giving you my perspective. It would be helpful if you had some of the baseline stuff. And you and I both know print drives broadcast. Print journalism drives broadcast. During them, everybody starts out reading the paper, read six seven, eight papers. But even there there's a lack of newsroom diversity. So I don't know

that I can say where news should um be consumed? UM. I would say the best answer I could give to that is stay tuned to where I land. A final question in here, do you think the media is glad Trump's running again? I do? I do? I think Um Trump gave the cable news network such a boom, UM that they salivated. Um. And that's why I think they were always constantly trying to get me to do trum tump, tump tump. You have to talk about Trump. Um. But

I think they're going to be disappointed. I have seen, uh, some in the news media a day late and a dollar short be a little more mindful about how they cover him. Um. But I also think that the American body politic has lost their appetite for the reality TV show that was cable news for a brief moment in time. People love to see you know, this throwdown, this battle,

this kind of gutter back and forth between opposing viewpoints. Um. And you know, it was like the anchor would do all but say, let's get ready to rumble, and then you bring in this you know segment. Um. You know, I think post pandemic and being overly sensationalized by this level of yellow journalism from print to broadcast UM, has left people a bit apathetic towards consuming news at all. Yeah. Well, Tiffany, I'm excited to see where you land. That is definitely

gonna be the place to check out. Thank you for coming on, and thank you everybody else for checking out this episode of Jordan Clapper figures the conspiracy whether you're listening on your phone or watching on your laptop, especially if it's a laptop at a repair shop in Delaware. We'll see you next time. Thanks. Listen to Jordan Clapper figures the conspiracy from The Daily Show on Apple podcast,

the Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, What's the Daily Show weeknights at eleven tenth Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast