You're listening to Comedy Central. Hey, what's up your's edition? Listener, It's Roy Wood, junior correspondent for The Daily Show. You're about to hear an episode of one of our original Daily Show podcasts, Beyond the Scenes. It's the show where we dive deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the Daily Show and we chat with the shows writers and producers and experts. This week, we're talking about interpolitical dating and how politics impact online dating and relationships.
This episode features the co host of the Man Enough podcast, Liz Plank, and chief science advisor for match dot Com, doctor Helen Fisher. We chat about when to bring up politics and dating, how the fall of Roe v. Wade changed people's dating habits, and how someone in an inter political relationship can make it work. It's a fun one and if you like the show, check out the Beyond the Scenes podcast. Wherever you get podcasts, same place you
got this podcast. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes deeper into topics and segments that originally aired on the Daily Show. This is what you gotta think of this podcast? Hey did? This podcast is basically a box of chocolates right. You don't know what you're gonna get, but we got it all, baby. We got the chocolate caramel, we got the butter cream, we got the almonds. We got that we'd win with the sprinkles. We even got
that coconut. When that nobody likes nobody likes coconut, I'm talking to you, almond joy. That's what this podcast is. I'm Roy Woo Jr. And speaking of chocolates, Happy Valentine's Day, And we thought for Valentine's Day it would be a good opportunity to talk about love in the time of politics and whether those who date a cross the aisle could ever walk down the aisle to talk a little bit more about this topic. I'm joined by journalists and co hosts of the Man Enough podcasts and author of
the book For the Love of Men, Liz Plank. Liz, welcome to Beyond the Scenes.
Thank you for having me. What an honor.
Well, thank you so much. I'm sorry if my candy rent and I didn't mean to scare anybody.
I agree. I'm glad someone's talking about it.
Coconut it has no place in chocolate. It just doesn't. Also joining us for this wonderful conversation this anthropologist, Senior Research Fellow at the Kinsey Institute and Chief Science Advisor for Match dot Com, Doctor Helen Fisher. Doctor Helen, welcome to be on the scenes.
Roy, I'm delighted to be with you. Thank you.
Do you like coconut and your chocolate? Let's just start with the real issues here.
I was going to start out. I can do it, but it is not my favorite. I also like the white choc though. Do you like the white chocolate?
Oh?
Absolutely, absolutely, but you can't get too much of it. It's intense.
Yeah, I can do them all. I can do a whole lot right off the bad too bad.
Now, doctor Fisher, I want to start with you. How has politics impacted our dating culture and amongst daters? What do you see you know in your research now?
Well, of course you know I've seen a lot only because I've been doing this study with Match dot Com for like twelve years. So every year we collected on five thousand singles, so I now have dated on sixty thousand singles.
We do not poll the match members.
This is a national representative sample of singles based on the US census. So we've been asking about politics every other year for the whole twelve years.
And as it.
Turns out, you know, in twenty fifteen, seventy eight percent of singles would date somebody across the aisle. Twenty seventeen, it reduced to seventy two percent. By twenty nineteen, only about fifty percent would go out with somebody on the other side of the aisle. And they basically say, now they're moving away from the center, they care more about politics, and they want somebody to share their views with. Seventy six percent say they want to share.
Their views with their partner. In spite of that, roy.
Forty six percent today are My last study was in twenty twenty two. Just a few months ago, forty six percent had actually gone out with somebody with very different political views. Forty eight percent actually believe you can fall in love with somebody who has very different political views. And one third of singles have actually fallen in love with somebody from across the aisle. So Cupid beats politics.
I think what's interesting about that is that sometimes you don't know when you're dating.
Somebody that's across the aisle that's exactly.
Big, and then you get together and then the next thing, you know, you'd had full kids and find out that AZAG and it's like, no, I thought we was sinking together, Like no, I voted ZAG in the last election.
Well you know, I asked, I asked singles about that very thing, Wendy, you want to know And twenty four percent today want to know before the first date, and but ninety eight percent wants to know before it gets serious. Yeah, because it's a real part of a partnership, and if it's problems there, there's going to be problems that'll stick around.
Yeah. I think it's interesting though, because so many things come down to I believe voting to be something where you're either voting for yourself or you're voting for the public, and it's a matter of do your interests supersede the interests of the union in the sense of, like let's just say public school versus private school, and you know, things of those matters and a lot of these things that we thought weren't issues for us don't become issues
until you have a real relationship and you start dealing with money problems and then okay, yeah, let's have a real discussion about healthcare and housing and where to live. And what's the best method of transportation? Liz, you were in the piece that we did on this and you had said that you would never date a Republican. Now is what the Good Doctor's saying? True? And we Yeah, you on a date with one anyway, and yeah, just talk to us a little bit. What was that experience like,
going on a date with the Republican? And since the segment that you were a part of, how have your views on dating evolved?
Yeah? Only for the Daily Show.
Would I've gone on a date with on a blind date with a Republican back then, which I think was like twenty fourteen. Twenty fifteen, we set up two of our panelists, one Democrat and one Republican on a date.
I grew up in California till I was about fifteen and that moved to Arizona.
Cool.
How long have you been in New York?
I've been here two and a half years now.
How about you, I've been in New York for two years now.
It was a catastrophe.
This couldn't be.
They were conversing like regular people. I really like this place. The atmosphere is really nice.
Yeah, I do like the atmosphere.
Atmosphere atmosphere.
Hey, do you know how many particles of CO two were released into the atmosphere in twenty fourteen?
Tell them about it, right, You're missing so many opportunities here.
So this was, you know, pre Trump, and let's be honest.
I think Trump made politics more mainstream, made them more extreme, and so it became harder not to discuss politics, and it became harder not to have an opinion, and so I in many ways, I think it got worse in the few years since I've done that segment, And I would say since the pandemic, I feel like politics matters
a little bit less. And I actually think that it's because we're more polarized because now like democrats also hate democrats, and Republicans also hate republicans, Like we all are a little bit annoyed with the way that government is functioning. We all feel like it should be, you know, a lot more productive, that things should be working better. I think people are seeking to have conversations that change their minds.
Like I feel like a few years ago, I was afraid to have those conversations, and I think now I'm I'm actually interested in talking to someone who has different information than me, who has different information from you know, the bubble that I live in, but that's just me. But apparently it's reflected in the data as well.
But the question also becomes, where did they get that information from? Because you got different information? But where the hell do you be scrolling through the internet. I honestly feel like your search history should be the first thing you sending to somebody before.
Going on the first day.
That's a good one.
Let's flip the script. Has anybody ever just canceled a date on you? Like?
You know what?
I don't like you me talking a little too much of that feminism. I think I saw I saw you at the Women's March in twenty eighteen. Let me unmatch from your ass. Has anything like that ever happened on your side? And how did that?
I feel?
How did that feel?
Yeah, well that's a great question. It did happen to me and this guy. So I met this guy last summer. Someone introduced us and I was like, oh, I feel like I've met you before, and he was like, yeah, we matched on you know, this dating app. But when I saw the title of your book, I unmatched you. And uh, you know, because I write about masculinity, I
read a lot about women's rights and gender. And my response was to say, oh, well, I'm glad you unmatched me because you're you have you don't have thick skin enough to.
Date me, like like basically like you did both of us a favor by unmatching.
But obviously I was annoyed, and and I thought about why, why why I was annoyed? Right, And part of it is is, yeah, realizing like, wow, we're kind of living in different times. And and this happened two years ago again when I think a lot of men were afraid of the me Too movement and some men thought that this had gone too far.
And and again I think.
That just compliment your luscious body.
And exactly exactly, but in a way again for me, it just saves time and it and it kind of weeds them out. But yes, it does happen, and I feel like it. You know, it happens to a.
Lot of women. That's why maybe a lot more people are putting.
There, you know, political affiliation either in their photos. You know, they're kind of like waving up the flag or putting their pronouns in their bio stuff like that to just kind of signal where they stand.
I just want to respond a little bit because you know, she said, now she wants to listen more to the other side. That's exactly what's happening. Fifty eight percent of singles today say they want it's a deal breaker if a possible partner can't be open minded about key issues. And I really do think I think that Liz is correct that we are swinging away from the hardliners that both sides have. You know, I mean, Democrats have problems with Democrats, Republicans have problems with Republicans.
Et cetera.
And singles, which is one third of the population in America just about I do want honest, open, real discussion. But they still feel they can fall in love with somebody from the other side, and in fact I did.
Okay, well, then let's talk about that then for a second. When did you and your partner meet doctor Fisher?
Well, he worked for the New York Times for twenty one years, so he's been interviewing forever. But frankly, I, you know, I would never put the make on a journalist, so it was just, you know, it was just a friendship. And then eight years ago we were both invited out to a place in Montana over the over the summer, and they invited journalists and academics and in the woods, and I was charmed by him, but I wasn't going
to put the moves on him. But anyway, he even told me, he said, I'm not going ever going out with another woman. He was going through a horrible divorce, and I figured he was telling me something.
So I never put the moves on him until one night and we were sitting down in.
Tribecca. Well, we were going to walk the high line and play game of pool. This was a year after we started to go out now and then he'd always give me a hug, but anyway, the bottom line and that would be that. So I don't know what got into me, but I pulled the cocktail napkin out from under my drink when we were having the d and I said, why don't we just write down on our cocktail napkin what we win if we win a pool. I didn't know what he wrote, and I wrote a
real kiss. I was set up with this hugged stuff. And I pulled out his.
So he creemed me at pool, creems me, I mean creez me.
And I pull out his and I open his and it says sex and clarity, and I said, I said, I got the sex, piper. What do you have in mind with clarity? But anyway, the bottom line is one thing led to another. And then I married a manature enough. He's not a total Republican. He is a libertarian. And just like Liz said, I've learned a lot. I will still vote the way I always do, but I learned so much about why some of these people are saying what they're saying. I looked at Fox News for the
first time in my life. I can't look at all of it, but I can certainly look at some of it. And I am better educated by knowing some important things about both sides.
So if on that day when you all went to play pool, and on his napkin, what do you want if we win pooland he wrote down privatized healthcare? Walked out right right? So how do y'all, how do y'all make it work? Because my point is that you all met at a time we're on the backside. If we're going eight years ago, where we're still second term, but it's Obama's victory lap and we're on the backside of George Bush no longer being a war criminal. He's given
Michelle Obama candies. So you know, at this point Republicans aren't as wild as we think there were going to be as the climate in the country changed over these eight years. How can people keep it respectful with their apartner when it comes to political issues, when you're in an interpolitical marriage or in a political relationship in general, Like what are your tools? How do y'all make it work when y'all both watching Fox News and you go and he goes, damn right.
I don't go. I don't do it. You know, I was with Greater Ginsburg.
You know, sometimes it's good to be a little deaf, you know, so that you don't listen to it. But I even ask five thousand people what they do about political civility, and something like forty five percent say, I try to understand the other person's perspective, and some people will just disagree politely another forty percent. And what's interesting to me is about twelve percent of men will lie about their views and six percent of women will lie.
Now this is in the beginning of a partnership.
They'll lie because of course they're looking for life's greatest prize, which is a mating partner. So people are going to just put their best foot forward and pretend whatever.
But the bottom line is it's correct.
I mean, today people are putting it on their profile. They want to know who the other person is. They don't want to go in with these kind of scars or problems. And in my case, I mean, all I can say is that he's wonderful at kissing and hugging, he's hilariously funny, he's educated in many more ways, and there's a the parts to a human being. I mean, politics is only one.
Liz, how have you handled situations where you begin to see a divide in political views with someone that you have dated? And is that something that people should ignore and just go a it's the third date. Who cares if they haven't been vaccinated yet. I we'll circle back to that later. Or is that something that you tend to dig in on and is that the right thing to start keying in on the moment you catch a whiff of that early on in the courtship.
I mean, I think we're in kind of a red flag culture right now, where there's a lot of people out there who are telling us all of the red flags to look out for. And again this sort of culture of I'm going to get away from anything that I don't agree with, that I don't like or that doesn't make me feel good. And I've definitely been guilty of that, and I had to kind of examine the way that I I was shutting people out right based on my own interpretation of what their opinion means to them.
Right, so you can know how someone votes, right, and that's.
A behavior, and if I don't ask more questions, I'm going to assign the intentions that I think goes into that behavior instead of using that as a way to
get to know the person better. And so if they vote a certain way, And again I'm not saying this on like fundamental issues, right, I think the match dot com data shows that like two thirds of single women, abortion is a non negotiable right in a world where like this is about our bodily autonomy, I think that's okay to like, I will not argue about that with someone on a date. I'll argue about some you know on Fox News about that, but I won't do it in like my private intimate time on my time off,
you know. But still, if someone you know, signals a certain opinion about it and an issue, and they have a different perspective. Ask questions, right, find out why, find out more about their value, you find out more about their personal experience. That's what you should be doing on a date, right, is not sort of looking for what's wrong with the person, but just connecting with them and
seeing how you feel when you connect with them. And you might connect with them and learn something to doctor Fisher's point, learn something about yourself, or learn something about this perspective that you still don't agree with, but now you understand where it's coming from. And yeah, you might want to pursue a relationship with this person if you feel good when you're around them.
Or you might not.
So, yeah, there's a lot of people I've been on dates with that I've remain friends with because yeah, we do fundamentally disagree about certain things and there's a value difference there, But it's not about really their political affiliation as much as those values and what's behind that. And at the same time, you know, there are a lot of progressive men out there who have grand ideas about progressive politics who don't necessarily behave that way behind closed doors.
Or in their relationships with women. And I know a lot of relationships that have fallen part because of that. That betrayal can feel worse for some women, and so and and again there's maybe someone who's more conservative on the outside who will be more altruistic or more egalitarian in the way that they approach the relationship. And so I would just want people to be open minded and to be curious, right, instead of using it as a reason to like shut down.
Okay, so what you're saying is that I need to start going to somebody's Trump and Ron DeSantis rallies and trying to hollot some girls. That's what I'm gonna do.
I don't would not recommend that, but if you want to go and try it, I will watch.
After the break, I'm want to talk a little bit more with you ladies about what deems a deal breaker when it comes to dating and politics. I want to talk about these these dating apps that are getting more and more deeper into political ideologies, and how do you raise kids when both of you don't think the same
way about stuff. It's beyond the scenes. We'll sort this out, and I'm gonna tell you by time I dated a gun on the story after the break Oh boy, before we talk a little bit about these dating apps, you said something before the break live that I want to circle back to and how sometimes you have to immerse yourself in someone else's culture or ask questions and then you learn about it and sometimes you'll be shocked what you find out about yourself. Like I don't own a gun.
I want a gun. I just never gotten around to getting a gun because I always end up in a relationship with a woman who don't want a gun in the house. So I just never bought a gun. And then I ended up in a relationship one time with a woman who owned a gun. And here's the funny thing. I didn't feel safe in the house. I wouldn't either, and I can't explain it, but just in my head, it was discussant thing the gun in this house, a
gun and this house. Now, if i'd have met her on gun own owners dot Com, then I could assorted that right out, and it wasn't it wasn't a deal breaker, but it definitely was an adjustment, you know, in terms of dating, if I'm being honest. And she was also a concealed carry person as well, but that's a whole separate set of beans. But when we talk about the dating apps, you know, like there's a conservative dating app called the Right Stuff.
Calling all conservatives.
A new dating app called the Right Stuff just might give you a chance to meet your true match.
It was funded by Peter Tail but founded by former officials in the Trump administration who had a hard time finding like minded people to date on the existing dating apps that often made them feel unwelcome.
But yeah, some of my friends would try to use the apps.
The minute they became it became known that they were working for Trump, the data immediately ended.
That happened several times in my friends.
Really, yeah, girls will just get up and leave her, you know, abruptly try to on the date.
Do you think dating apps that are rooted in political ideologies are helpful in people finding like minded partners or does it drive everybody to retreat into their own little bubbles where you can't ask questions and learn and inform yourself about the other side like Liz did.
And well, first of all, you know, it's amazing how people think that this is new, that these are sort of channels that are going to keep you in a bubble.
But as an anthropologist. I mean for millions of years.
You know, you met that cute boy at the waterhole, He's going to think like you. He's going to do the same kind of thing every day that you do. I mean, mankind has always been, you know, in certain channels.
I mean, how about on a farming community.
I mean, you're still going to run at everybody at the same church and the same grocery store, and people are going to hold the same value. So the bottom line is these don't threaten me at all. I think they help people find people that are sort of like them. And what's nice about today is we've got a huge number of alternatives. They don't have to go to the right stuff. They can go to other places and learn other things. So I don't find it threatening. I know
that a lot of people. It's called positive assortative mating, and that's the anthropological term about the fact that we are inclined, well, we are inclined to fall We tend to fall in love with somebody from the same socioeconomic and an ethnic background, same degree of intelligence and good looks and education. We tend to fall in love with somebody with the same values and social and reproductive goals, economic goals.
Childhood always plays a role.
But the bottom line is we gravitate to people like ourselves, and what these dating sides are simply doing is enabling you to find more.
People like yourself.
What's beautiful, as I said about today, is that we can step out the way Liz is doing and the way I certainly did, and learn other ways. Whereas I think through most of humidity, you really couldn't step out. I mean, you know, you stuck with sort of your kind. And I think right now it's a beautiful time in human evolution where we're seeing more and more people who don't share our views. We can reach in and and learn something from them and then learn more about ourselves.
Just the way they said, Liz, how do you feel about that? Like do you think that these dating apps are helpful? Like if there was a dating website called Yes Abortions Got Relationships? Just spitball in the U R L. I don't know if that's that's.
A you should buy that and we should start that.
I go to it.
Not only would I go to it, but it says a lot more about the person and abortion. It says a lot of other things that are a sort of coalescent to a general framework.
Yeah, and I you know, once a lot of protests, you know, this year or I guess last year, you know, with ro V Wade being overturned, and I was like, hmmm, this might be.
A good spot.
There's a lot of guys here, which I think is encouraging for the movement and also encouraging for Yeah, relationships between men and women, you know, like these are fundamental. Again, it can be fundamental deal breakers. And yeah, I'm not super opposed to any way that helps people connect these days.
I think it's I think dating has become so hard, and that's where I would love I mean, doctor Fisher knows about it because she's looking at the data, and I just think it's very hard to be in relationship. I think the pandemic we've still not recovered fully. And so anything that brings people together, you know, whether it's like a dating app for people who are on the right, a dating app for farmers, a dating app for people who write who love abortion, I'm all for it.
I think it's positive.
I also think that we can't underestimate the power of intimate relationships to revolutionize the world. Right our minds are changed by people that we like. It's very rare that as stranger, you know, yelling at you, or even stranger talking to you, or reading a book by a person that you don't even like.
Right, I mean, first of all, that's not going to happen.
And second of all that that's really going to make you think differently. But if your cousin says something to you, if someone that you really like, you know, presents a
different perspective, or again, an author. I mean, there are many authors that I read that I don't agree with everything, but because I like them, and because I have this weird, you know, a parasocial relationship with them, I care about what they say and I trust what they say, and so I do think that these intimate relationships can really be transformative and as much as you know should be Also, we should have sympathy for singles and you know, if
they want to go to their bubble where they feel comfortable, that's also fine.
Well, I just want to say something about these dating sites that people really don't really get. They are not dating sites. They are introducing sites. That's all they do is introduce you. That's all they do. And once you get out on that first date or a video chat. You smile the way always did, you laugh, the way it always did, You parade the way it always did. You assess the way you always did. The dating site it's
not going to change who you are. It's just where you're going to find people and then begin to assess them. And the problem with these introducing sites is there's nothing really wrong with them. The problem is there's so new that people don't know how to use them, and they binge and the human brain cannot cope with about more than about nine options.
You know.
It's called cognitive overload or the paradox of choice, and people choose nobody. And the other thing is, you know, because you know so little about somebody, you overweight what you know and you'll sendd me think, ah, he likes cats, I like dogs.
It doesn't work.
So the bottom line is one of the things that Roy you were asking about in the beginning, is where we're headed. In this annual study. One of the questions that I ask is have you ever fall in love with somebody who you initially did.
Not find attractive?
And in fact, this year forty nine percent said yes. Singles are giving people a chance. It's more than all of the last twelve years. Singles are getting on these sites the beginning. I hope to learn how to use them, and they're giving people a chance, and I think this is a great step forward.
Ugly people. Ugly people change just more specific. I don't know if that's the anthropological term, but in a ray,
we'll just say variety will be nice. They're giving a variety of faces atunity one or two when we talk about like deal breakers, though, should dating be more about the issues or the party affiliation when we come when it comes time to talking about how you prioritize looking for a lifelong partner, because you know, I've also in my single them as of late, I found myself on dates with women who were not vaccinated by choice, and I had never been somebody thought about until it was
actually sad and I was like, I don't agree with that, but all right, let's see where a second date goes. I guess. So it wasn't like should you date along party lines or along issue lines? Like how would Roe v. Wade change? How did that change dating? For instant?
That changed it a lot, Just as lizid said, I mean, we did a study on this this past year obviously, and two out of three women will not date somebody.
With a posting views on abortion.
And you know, when I was talking with my colleagues at Match and Justin Garcia, who I work with to analyze the data, you know, people thought, well, you know, people are coming much more flexible about politics, but they're not flexible about abortion. And I get you know, once again as an anthropologist, I get it. You know, politics comes and goes. I mean Trump will come and Trump will go, Biden will come and Biden will go. They will come and go. But having a baby does not
come and go. You know, if you're not ready to have a child, or you are ready to you know, whatever it is, you are going to have that child for the rest of your life.
It doesn't come and go.
And I'm not I'm not at all surprised that this is the top of the list right now because this is a Darwinian issue, this is not a social issue.
So then to that point, how are people with opposing views raising the kids? How do you do that? Like in an inner political home? Like I know that the whole child vaccination, you got to be vaccinated to go back to this school divided, and I'm talking from personal conversations I've had in group chats with other married friends where it was a serious issue because they didn't realize they were in a vaxxed anti vac excuse me, an inter vaccination home. By the way, the antiological term.
Anthropologic, Yeah, that's a good one. I like it.
How are they opposing political views like influencing child rearing?
Now, well, this is something I've not been able to tell to anybody, and thanks for asking. In this last study, with this, forty nine percent of Republicans do not want their children to marriage somebody on the other side of the aisle, and thirty three percent of Democrats.
Do not want their children to marry somebody from the other side of the aisle.
So that's something they somehow feel that they can weather the differences between themselves and their partner. But it comes to children having children and sort of passing on their values to next generations with their DNA, they feel very strongly about it. I'm not surprised that the vexers and the anti vaxxers are having struggles.
Liz, what have you seen, you know, just in your own experiences with you know, either dating people with children or your friends who have children who are struggling now, especially when we start talking about preteen children that are a lot more politically aware themselves.
I dated someone with kids and this was you know, it wasn't even a political issue. But kids bring in all kinds of different things, right for a couple, and especially when you're mixing to you know, two people who have kids and now have new partners, that's that that can come with challenges. My perspective is as a single person who doesn't have kids, but certain things.
Are not a political issue. They're a safety issue, right.
Vaccination, although it's become a political issue, which is you know, boggles the mind. And I don't even know if we could have predicted before the the well, I don't think we could have predicted the pandemic. But also I don't think we could have predicted that something like that, that that is a health issue becomes a political issue.
And it's the same thing with the gun and that woman you know who were dating who has a gun.
Is that really about affiliation or is about your safety and your feeling of safety a physical safety in that relationship. And similar with abortion, I mean, if I'm going to risk going to jail to have sex with you, Like, like if you're trying to keep that happening, and like, are for that.
I'm not going to have sex with you.
Yeah, that's like the that's the bar, the bars in hell, but that's the bar, you know.
I'm not going to go below that. And I feel okay about.
That all right, after the break, hopefully we can leave with some hope here that doctor and Adam Liz and we can figure out ways that people can live in a home with an unvaccinated gun on her while raising a multi gendered child in this new universe in which we're living in. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back now. Beyond the scenes. We are around in third and headed for home. We have been talking about interpolitical dating. I didn't even know that was the official term.
Just I called it dating net girl that watched a little too much Fox News, but she cooked good, so I'm ignore it. That's what I call it. Letz. I'll start with you first, what do you think the future of dating looks like? Do you think it gets more technical? Do you think people will get back to just dating off feeling instead of letting sites aggregate? So many different details of us.
I think people are really hungry for human connection right after Again, I talk about the pandemic not because I want to bum people out, but because I want people to be compassionate with themselves that we went through something really traumatic and.
To be like, everything's fine now. It is not.
You know, it can be helpful in the short term, but it can make you kind of blame yourself for certain consequences of that. And so what I've been noticing is is more men kind of honestly hitting on me, which I am so into men coming up to me at coffee shops or in the street, striking a conversation, right like in a respectful way. I no, yeah, not yelling from the other side of the street to impress your male friends, but actually seeking to connect with a
person I think is so wonderful. And I have noticed that people have been more actively doing that because a lot of people. As much as dating apps have helped us in tramt in this way, is they also can be not a fun experience for all of the reasons that doctor Fisher laid out where people might not be using them in the best way.
So I think people are hungry for human connection.
I also think we need to date more compassionately. We need to be more compassionate with ourselves, We need to be more compassionate with the other person, and we have to give ourselves more time. I did this podcast called ras to thirty five with Monica Patman and Dak Shepherd where I froze my eggs with Monica and we documented the whole thing, and part of doing that was talking about the fact that a lot more women are freezing
their eggs. It's something that's not accessible to all women and should be and I'm very lucky to be one of those women. But more women are delaying motherhood, are delaying these big decisions about who they want to have kids with, who they want to marry. And I think that buying time is great. I think that we should all take a little bit more our time to get to know ourselves, to get to know someone else, and to kind of take the pressure off. That's what I
see for us. That's why I'm approaching dating. Uh, And it's been a lot more it's been a lot better for me since I've done that.
Doctor, What do you see the future of dating looking like based on the data?
Yeah? No, I am extremely optimistic. Actually, and what Liz.
Is actually talking about is something I've written quite a bit about called slow love. And what we're doing is in you know, fifty years ago, people married in their very early twenties. Now they're married in their very late twenties or even early thirties. So there's this long period of pre commitment where you getting in all yourself, you're trying people out, You're getting rid of what you don't want, you know, like the girl with the gun in the house and going on to something.
You get rid of her. She got rid of me.
Oh oh, dear, I did you suffer? Are you sort of glad? You're not well?
She had pulled a gun on me. And you're too busy too, she said, I think you're getting into your me period of your life right now. I don't know what that good.
Well the hell well?
Anyway, I am extremely optimistic. And by the way, nobody roy gets out alive. We all get dumped, there's no question about it. But anyway, the bottom line is, you know, divorce is very low right now. It's been actually very low for the last fifty years. It's the nineteen seventies was when it was it was higher. And we're dating on the Internet, and the data show that if you met somebody on the internet rather than off the internet, any one of these sites anywhere, you're less likely to divorce.
And the longer you court before marriage, the more likely you are to remain together. And those two huge worldwide trends of dating on the internet, meeting people on the internet and the slow love meeting you know, spending a long time figuring out who you are, are both very matter of fact. If you court somebody for about three or more years, you're thirty.
Nine percent less likely to divorce. So is slow love.
It's happening all over the world, and I think last, but not least for me. I mean, first of all, I study the brain. I mean we've put over one hundred people into a brain scanner. I mean that we know the brain circuitry of romantic love. It's a basic drive comes out of the most primitive parts.
Of the brain. We will always love.
Courtship will change, but the feeling of desire to be with somebody will never change. I mean, it's primordial, it's adaptable, and it's eternal. And I do think that with more of us Internet dating, where you get a wide variety of people.
You've got to.
Handle it properly. And a courting for a long period of time is going to send us to wars. Actually a few decades of relative family stability.
I'll leave you, ladies with one last question to take us home. What words of encouragement do you have for our viewers who are looking for love but don't want to do it digitally? Is there any whole form? Doctor? How do I meet people the old fashioned New York times at a pool hall right on the napkin? Wait? How do we do it? Is there still hope for that? How do they navigate the science?
They got to get out there any way you get out there? Okay.
Some people do it on the internet in their pajamas. Some people want to get all dodd up and stand in a bar. Whatever works, Just get out there. And by the way, if I had to sum up, what is catnip to the opposite sex?
It's people who are happy.
Just be happy, smile, be energetic, be interested in who other people are.
It's catnip to the opposite sex.
And Liz, what hope would you give like because you've been approached in the real world.
Welcome through I'm a survivor. Yes, No, I've been on dates.
I've been on successful dates with men who have come up to me at a coffee shop.
Go coffee shops? Are these third places?
Right?
The first place is you're home, second place where you work, and these third places the gym. And again I'm not saying go harassed women while they're working out, but there are of approaching strangers and smiling, to doctor Fisher's point, just smiling, looking up.
From your phone, put your phone in your pocket. Okay, there are all.
Kinds of amazing people that you know you're not seeing if you're if you're not looking up. And so I have two pieces of advice. One of them, think about who your future partner is, right, like on a Saturday, where would they be go there? Would they be at the gym?
Go to the gym? Would they be at a museum? Go to a museum.
Would they be at a panel about intergalactic universes?
Like, go to that panel.
And the second thing is every day, give a compliment to anybody of any gender. And this is not as again a way of you know, not even as an attempt to seduce people or to really make a lasting connection. But it just kind of makes you more comfortable talking and approaching someone that you don't know. Just practice the art right which used to be much more normal talking
to strangers. Practice the art in your every day life in small ways, and then yeah, I don't make you more likely to end up striking those conversations with people that you do find attractive, and you are a little bit more nervous to go up to You'll have done it before.
And men like it, by the way, they do like it women who try to pick them up.
Yeah, yes, everyone loves a compliment.
Let me think, Yeah, I do. It doesn't happen often. When it happened, we usually have on a date.
Something like Yeah, something like ninety percent of men are perfectly happy if a woman moves in for the first kiss, if a woman asks for her you know, for your telephone number. But women don't do it. But the young are beginning.
To, Yeah, well, go where your potential mate is and with that lives and Helen, I bid you with do And I'm gonna heait to the home depot because I hope she's on the paint aisle, because I need some help pint in this house. That's all the time.
Don't we all do? Not what we're looking for? Someone's good.
I'm gonna just stand by the paint and be like, hello, baby, would you like to come and help me my? Oh while we eat pizza. Liz Helen, thank you so much. That's all the time we have for today. But I appreciate you both for going beyond the scenes with me.
Thank you, thank you, Thank you all.
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