Hold Up with Dulcé Sloan & Josh Johnson: Conscious Rap vs. Club Bangers

into a podcast. This is your chance to hear these two people go back and forth the way. We get to hear it all the time in the hallway. The podcast is called hold Up. Have a listen, everybody, welcome to hold Up. I have now realized that a podcast hosted by two black people called hold up. It's a problem. It's a problem, but we already named it. This is this is five we can't do. First. Okay, first of all, it might be better because it's like, this is hold up.

Like I hear what you're saying. I hear I feel I feel like hold up works though I think it gives people's attention. He man hold up. Yeah, it's like or it can only be called like okay, listen like and there's no way to like type that out copy for that, so we need to go and hold up, Hold up, alright, hold up, all right, Well, if you heard that last part, you already know what the name

of the show is. Welcome to hold up. It's me Josh Johnson, writer for The Daily Show, with my partner in conversations that go on way too long, duel say sloan, and we're gonna be taking it to to the true edge, the brim of issues that don't matter at all to anybody but us, and we're gonna have it out. So you need to know ahead of time. This is what we do. This is how we talk to each other anyway, all right. I don't want I don't want anybody listening

in thinking wow, while they're getting heated. It's not heated. It's just the truth. It's what's happen. Sometimes when you're right, you have to let people know. And sometimes those people or some of your good friends, Okay, because like Josh, how many times and we've been like I think people would call it arguing, but for us, it's just a

regular conversation, discussion, situation. People from far away definitely think it's arguing because I have a lot of like we'll get will give me a second to like, I have a lot of those stunted sentences, and those always sound

like they going and argument. Really I'm just trying to think, right, So it's just like, okay, so hold up, wait a minute, so like you have that thought process, because it's like, there's so many times I've been talking in the office and somebody was like, y'all should do this as a podcast. I'm like, i'mtt are you doing this for free? I'm already getting paid to be at work to talk to this man. I ain't been to do it on this

white man's internet, not getting no points for it. So we out here being Josh talking about things only really well like we care about them, but I think like people as a whole care about them, I would hope. So here's the thing. Today, We're gonna be talking about conscious hip hop versus club hits. Which one is better? And see, I think see we're already in a place that's wow because you can't say which one is better? Right, It's which one? Do you know? You can't listen? It's

which one you prefer? Okay, it's like, which one do you prefer? Because I'm gonna say, because you have one that you think is like better, and I have one that I think is preferable to listen to. Okay, alright, when we say better, what are the qualifications for that kind? Okay, that's a good point because my thing is I'm gonna go with conscious hip hop because one I think I

enjoy the journey more too, that you wear in that hat. Okay, Wow, for personal attacks that have nothing to do with the argument. I love this hat. It says a chief on the side. It says a chief on the front. You turned it to the side. It says a chief on the side that I chose to be the side it's round. Any side could be the side. You can have it in the back, absolutely I could, and then people from the back would be like, who is that a chief? For walking past me? Back to the topic you had thought.

All I've said is that conscious hip hop it takes you. It takes you to a place that helps you digest society as it's happening in the moment or the past, as as the people living in it saw it. And club hits it's just heathenism. You know, it's just it's just sort of rubbing together. Listen as a Christian woman, all right, I don't know what you believe, and I don't know what God you serve, but we've never really talked about what faith you have. Uh so this is

the thing. It's I listen to NPR, Okay, listen to NPR. I get on seeing it. I am very aware of all of the things that are happening right. Absolutely, this is happening here, This is a problem here. Oh, we got to go march again, right? So is that way? Is that how you react? You we gotta go march again. I mean we've been marching my mother's we've been marching forever. Yeah, we've been marching for I feel like that's honestly just

a prerequisite to black fitness. You know. It's just guys, we gotta get out there and it is way over there, so we're gonna be building these calves, could be fighting the power. The best thing that ever happened to marching was a sneaker. Yeah, because that's when sneakers came about. They were like, was gonna stop these blocks? Listen, because before they was out there marching in a straight church shoe.

You try to march church shoes, you really have to think about how much you care about the thing that you march it for, because about after eight steps you're like, hey, listen, could we stay? We can still sing, we can sing and be still? Can everything be a sitting? Can everything be just sit right now? Listen? The city came from the marches like like, hey, hey, listen, we can't make all of us, can't make it all the way over there,

So let's just take over a lunch counter. Because they don't less either there anyway, So let's we'll kill two with one. Let's make it happen. I'll let you hit me with the milkshake before I walk in these church shoes for seven miles. Yeah, because you know what a milkshake washes off. Bunians don't know. No, I can get a new pressing curl, okay, I can wash the stress. But my feet, on the other hand, my achilles is

going through it. So I'm going man, I mean, I understand why it's such an issue, So sucking up my c l um. When I'm listening to music, I don't want to think about all this ship that's wrong in the world. Okay, I want to stop. I'm here to listen. I don't want to hear about all the hardships in your neighborhood and all another nonsense. Okay, I want to hear about that ship. I don't want to hear about

your local struggle. No, I don't want to hear about how hard it is in your corner and America, bro, no, are you robbing? Everybody's robbing? Okay, first of all, and ninth right, like, oh, let's go to the Bronx, Like I don't want this play by play news story of what the funk what's funked up in your area? Like I'm not. I don't want I don't need that. I don't want that because I already know. I already know

ship's bad over here, Ship's bad over here. There's already the misconception that people think like, oh, well, like the North's not as racist, which is a lie, and it's like, oh it's not as in your face. I'm just like, okay, so yes, this man not might not have a Confederate flag T shirt on, but he's still not gonna let you with this fucking apartment. Who gives a ship? So like, oh, it's not in your face. Racism, all racism in your face. If you won't let me live here, it's in my face.

Some goofy bitches in the lobby asking me to prove when I live here. I'm like, bitch, you gotta keey file. If you touched me, I'm gonna slap you back to Like we already have the ships. So when I'm listening to my musica, I don't want to hear that ship. You know what I want to hear about what I'm listening to my musica? What is that guns holds money? That's what I want to hear about. I want to hear what you out here doing is you're getting the

whole Did you're taking these drugs? How many bottles did you pop today? Like, that's what I want to hear. I want to hear a repetitive beat that will let me shake something that conscious wrap you can't. I was like, I always think about this. I was like, so do they have like conscientious wrap clubs? Like you're just sitting there thinking with a bunch of other niggas. You're just sitting thinking. Yeah, you're just bobbing back and forth. It's hard out here. No, bro, I want to shake something

I'm trying to forget. I'm trying to see how many men want me to rub my butt on their pelvis. I don't appreciate that. But he could be a nice man. People are throwing books and people putting their clothes on right, like it was like a sticking here, a jacket or all you aware at check. Everybody got to be the clothes on this club. So I don't I want like for me. It's like I don't want to say like escapeism. But it's like I already know about all of the

ship that's bad. I don't need you. I don't need you to put the news to a beat. I don't need that. So I will say this, okay, So you you have perfectly made your point and tied me up for mine. Because the guns, the hose, the money, the butt rubbing, it's it's all. It's since it's all the same, I can't. I can't after a while you lose me, you know. But it's like I want you to rub a butt like this. I want to rub all your

butt like that. It's just it's it's not only a bit repetitive, but it's like I can guess the ending of the song. Okay, But in the social conscious rap I can also get standing because y'all still out here being broke. The government still, the cops are still killing us, like fun the Police is a song that can come out every single year. Sure, like we're not like it's the same thing. We're not learning new ship. Nothing new is happening, nothing is truly you're still what the what

with the new topic gentrification? What are you talking about now, Doe Coin? Are you trying to fix the hood? Are they? That's what? That's not what's happening in these songs. No one's giving you like, hey, we're gonna strategize, like, no one's the comments not telling you how to win a local election, Like that's not happening like that that is? That is good? Then that means that the only thing missing bridging this gap between us would be a conscious

rap that wasn't about something that happened. It was it's about a plan. So if you if you heard a song that was about a plan that was like this is how we're gonna take over half of Mississippi, you would be down for it. You couldn't do something to it, but you could you could be like, Okay, this is a nice flow and a good plan. I like this plan. I mean, isn't the goal always to Bob though, you gotta get if it's not a Bob I people gonna listen to it, So you guys still not get somebody

about Here's the thing about Bob's though. People are now, especially with club hits, people are now forgetting to even check for the lyrics. You don't know what you're bopping your head too. You could be bopping. You could be bopping your head to just pure unadulterated gag violence. Argue. This song could be about beating you, and you're like this thing slaps and then all of the sudden people jump you and you have no idea why my thing is.

I truly understand that the j Coles of the world, you can't you can't really dance to it, you can't really like like like swing your hips. But if he can't ride a flow, if he if he if he can't put something out there that not only I understand that you don't want to think as much because this is kind of like how I like, I think that we're this mirrors our personalities though, because I'm very much like documentaries and you very much like Korean dramas. You know,

I love a documentary. The problem is all the documentary is now about true crime, and I don't want to see true crime. Also, it's always true crime documentaries. A boy white people getting murdered, like niggas getting murdered. People would call it get murdered, Like y'all ain't trying to do no cold case of you know a black man who was incarcerated and he was an innocent person, like the Innocence Project. If the Innocence Project became a production house,

they win every oscar can I can? I'm digressing for a second, but this is that you just revived to me of this as someone who is seeing real crime. Yeah, this is messed up. But like I wonder, was like when you see a crime and then you see a document of about that crib. But you're like, man, they should have interviewed me. They got it all wrong. Listen, Listen to something like what happened there? I'm in the shot. I'm in the shot and they didn't get me. Listen.

I had a neighbor on gangland one time and my mother was like, this is nonsense. This is absolute lies, lies, none of this was happening. Like she was so aggravated because she was just like, they wasn't doing half of this ship. So when it came out, we were like like me and my homeboard, like I was talking to my homeboy and like in his sister, it were like liing yang like the whole time he was watching it.

And then there was some dude on there who was supposed to be in the gang, and then nobody knew who he was, sort of like they just hired some actor, like they didn't have enough of the story because this gang wasn't doing what they said it was doing. Also, you were a gang in the suburbs, like calm down, like they must have just like I don't know if

Gangland that week was just out of gangs. And I was like, well we heard about this over in Gwynette County and I'm just like, hey man, this is wild, but um but my mother was like, this is nonsense. My mother went, they should have interviewed me, id have told him. I was like, the last thing you need to be on Gangland. The thing that I love about gang glad type stuff, though, is a perfect opportunity to hype up your gags. So you can be a lot of people don't know we killed JFK. That was They

thought we weren't really out here like that. But we've been out here okay, and we we got that man, all right. Could you imagine if like it was like moo this it was like, yeah, Holmes, we got Jaffa, we got okay, all right, and the FBI was so scared that they covered it up. What if the crypt what if the crypts just killed I imagine that they could have done it, but by accident, they just saw dropped top and they were just like, yeah, that's that boy.

You're like, oh, that was the president. Damn, yeah that was That's are bad because he was gonna side that voter Rice bill too. He was definitely gonna sign a civil rights sack. Fuck, we should have ask more questions. So here's the thing about club hits, all right. The other thing is that this is this I'm gonna make this point and you don't even want it. I'm excited to hear your counter though, because I understand I'm stepping

into to precarious waters. So basically, a lot of the club hit game is so rigged that I honestly have a hard time respecting it. There are some like Atlanta is a great example. Atlanta club hits are authentic. They're like they're like people run up on a DJ or they have a friend that that can get their stuff played, and then some people play it. Then they play it in that club, people follow that person on Instagram, DJ gives them a shout out, they build up a real

following and everything. But the rest of the game at large, the broad like brushstrokes of music, it's still the same like label Paola type thing that we pretend we aren't still doing from the seventies or whatever. Like like, it's still very much like, Okay, I have the back end of this person to get me a feature by this person and get pumped up by this person. So now all of a sudden my club hit is is it's like on fire. But I'm like, if this was if this had to exist in a vacuum, it would have

never got here. Whereas I feel like a lot of conscious songs don't really have that problem. It's like most of the most of the conscious rappers that I enjoy are only semi famous. They're not like because the ship is boring, the nigg is still working office depot because nobody fucking cares. That's the thing. Like nobody is like sitting up running them to a club is like, hey, let me hear this. I don't even know those social

conscious rappers because that's how much I don't care. But don't give me a socially like a real socially conscious rapper, like a conscious can give him in my name, Okay, I've heard a no name. Yeah, but no name is not. No name is not Cardi B. No name is not. Like like she is at a place where I don't think this should happen, but I think very well she is gonna plateau where she's at because now the people that know about her lover talk about her and everything.

But for whatever reason, it doesn't spread even more. Everything everything hits, everything hits critical masks. At a certain point, you're just famous, like there's not new people Like Brad Pitt is famous, he's established, right like Angela Bassett established like angel Bassett legit famous. But Loretta Divine is not

as famous as Agel Bassett. But Loretta Divine Like it's crazy because like I feel like sometimes like certain people are like black famous, like a lot of time when I'm on the shade room, They'll be talking about people like who the funk is this? Who the fund is that? Like, there's so many people that talk about in the shade. I'm like, I don't know who any of these motherfucker's are,

but I should know so. But I think the other thing that I think about, like when it comes like socially like conscious rap or like stuff like that, is like like when I think about, like first like the number of when I look at, like the number of white people that try to talk to me about like rap, like music, if it's if it's a white girl, she's asking me if I know who Lizzo is, when I'm just like, well, first of all, I'm not Lizzo, so leave me alone. Uh second, beat it, lady, Like I

get it, go away, stop talking. You're not going to connect with me on this, Okay talking to a little away and you goofy, lady. But when I look at like, what do I think the number of white people that are like, well, I'm really in an old school hip hop? But I'm like really, because we're done with it. That's

why we call it old school hip hop. Like it's not because like if you think about like hip hop back like because the style changes so much, because at first it was all conscious, right, sure, and then there was a break, like a whole you know, like a Protestant Catholic situation where which is like we're all doing the same thing, and then there was a break where it was just like I just want to have fun. I just want to I just want to go out,

I want to dance, and that is it. Because I am very aware of like who consumes what, So it's interesting that people are like, well because they try to act like that. You know, black people don't contribute to the American economy whatsoever, which is wild because we are some of the biggest consumers. But when it comes to like when I talk to my next like it's conscious rap music, the people who are talking to me about conscious rap music a lot of times are white people.

So it's like they're getting new information because, like, as black people, because we're not the dominant culture because were minorities in this country quote unquote, we have to know all of the white things, but white people aren't required to know the black things. So they're listening and he's like, oh my god, I didn't know that this was such a problem. I'm like, what do y'all do all day? What do you do? Like? How do you not know

that there are issues and other community? Like It's that's the thing that's always been wild to me, where it's just like I just I just wasn't. I mean, are y'all really short? Like when you're sure? Are you sure? Like when I like if I interacting with him, like I've had a dude like be aggressive to me and like rude to me on set and then I someone say to me, well, is that your perception of it? And I just went, I don't know. I don't need that, yeah at all. I don't need you to second guess

what I'm doing. What I need you to do is listen to what I'm saying and fucking fix it. That's what I need you to do. So in those situations where it's just like people just second guessing, like what you're saying and what your experience is, I think a lot of times when it comes to stuff like this, it's just people going, well, I didn't know they were

going through so much. So they're like catching up on news that happened twenty years ago because because it's like now like as I was saying before, it's we're gonna

dance for everyone to shake forever. Like I feel like that's why sometimes like on a bunch of black people laughing bothers white people so much because no matter they've done all of these things for all, Like we've literally been in America for like four hundred and two years, and it's gotten better than it was before because before we were stolen and brought here answers were someone brought

here its property. So it's better than it was before, but we're still dealing with things that we've been dealing with since Jim Crows, Like Jim Crow ended on paper. But now it's like we desegregated schools, and now they've resegregated schools, but they've done it so slowly. You just look up and you're like, damn you a white kidds at the school. What they got us again? So when I look at stuff like that, it's like we are

what are we doing? Because there's still gonna be the break happened for a reason, like the like the split happened for a reason, Because it just gets to the point where you're just like every time I turn on a record, I can't hear about this ship because it's like, is there conscious R and B or is that just neo soul music? I mean if yeah, he might be alone in that right or they just spoken word? Also spoken word, it's just poetry. What do we talk It's

just poetry. It's low key rapping, Like what are we talking about right now? But I do feel like spoken word is for conscious rappers who have trouble staying on beat. You know, they like I just gotta go with you know, my guy giving gifts, let me be the bet. There's like that that basis throwing me off. Let me just do thing, because it's I mean, I've never seen a spoken word poem that I thought was like, oh, this should like I felt before that some of them should

be songs. But then I was like, no, there's no beat to like like his top end and his back end or like completely. So I guess if he had a beat switch, he could make it work with both. But that's saying that seems too hard now. But they're all doing But the thing is they're all doing the same. It's like like have ever been in like a sausa club. Yeah, So it's basically the same song all night. It kind of is. But some people like so I don't know, if you watch any spoken word, I used to one

of them slutely not, and two things happened. There was a big schism in spoken word where some of them stayed with like that like bongo beat type and my brother like that that thing, and then other ones really did start like almost rapping, but they would just go so fast until they were out of breath, and you would actually hear them go like it was like you could hear them gas because they were just like streamlining

the whole poem. And my brother, I'm trying to tell you that it's like, you're not twister, just tell me the words. Yeah, and both of them I couldn't go to a beat. They stopped doing the okay, so this is they stopped doing the fast thing because it made no sense. No, no, no, I wish. But in Chicago, I went to an open mic night a couple of times, like as I was getting it to stand. It was a mixed open mic. It was like stand up a

little bit of everything. There was this guy that would do spoken word and the first two times he the first two times he brought bogos, but even he could tell he could keep up with what his hands were doing. So then the next two times I saw me didn't have any He just left him at home. I mean, you have to realize because it's like that kind of

like beat Nick thing from the Fit. Like it's funny because like the only people like certain people still swing dance and then like this beat Nick like the rockabilly kind of vibe that some people still funk with, and then like the fifties was such an amazing time. Um, it's kind of rough for everybody. Basically, Uh, it's like black people went, yeah that beat Nick ship will keep it and then just turning the spoken word because okay,

so where does Kendrick Lamar fall on this? He I think he falls in conscious because of the The Damn Album and the Pulitzer, Like he was already like Section eight and to Pile Butterfly all that stuff like that. Those weren't really he did kind of bridge a little bit because he had songs like Um, he had songs like I He had he had songs like like d n A. He had things that people like Bob two in a in a way that was not like club dunswing, but it was like they were really rocking with it

and everything. So he's sort of like an outlier of a lot of these other people because but like if you played be Humble in a club, it would bob like people would dance to that. So he kind of found a way to like bridget I am not what what blasphemy? What do you Go ahead and say what you're gonna say, because I'm already upset. Go ahead, and I do enjoy his music, But what I will say is that I'm not a huge kinds look lamar fan, because I think he sounds like a muppet. So you

could have stopped at not a huge fact. See, this is this is what you do. This is this is your whole vibe. You like to put your foot on the line and make sure your toe is over it like tin toes down. Baby? Why why would why would you even need to include that? I can respect you're not being a huge fan. I'm just saying I figured but when you say you're not a big like when you say a lot like people are like people want quantifiers,

Well why well what is it? And my reason is his voice sounds like it's being done by Jim Hinson. That's my It's like a Frank Oz kind of like just Sesame Street Muppets take Manhattan more like a muppet and Sesame Street way more muppet. What you So, here's the thing. First of all, you all those people not think. Second,

the qualifier doesn't make it better. The quality, Like the qualifier is only gonna take what you're doing right now, which is taking a Kindrick bar fan and coming to you actually had Cobba ground and then you decided to jackhammer it. You had like I was like, hey, you're not a huge I could live with that. You were like, let me throw in a couple of things. I like what he's saying. I just don't like I can I

can say this. I'm very into people's voices, right, so that is important for me, Like I listened to like the quality, the timber of someone's the musicality of someone's voice. Right. So to me, if you sound like you should be standing next to Gonzo, I'm not. I'm not really gonna be so I will. I will ask you this question about club hits in general. I understand what you're saying about the consciousness sometimes being a bit too much, but

here's the thing. I there's two points that I basically want to try to make simultaneously, So address whichever one of them first that you that you feel needs addressing one. I would make conscious socially conscious rap only a part of the pie of what I feel like conscious rap is.

Sometimes I think conscious rap is just all outright lyricism, like like outright saying anything, because because I understand the socially conscious stuff is is exhausting to a to a degree, especially when you live in and you know, being at the daily show, we have to read about it and like work in it. So I understand needing a break and not being like I want to reminder of what

I left when I go home. But I think that when you take the time to put in incredible alliteration and like all of these aspects of poetry into your lyrics, I I personally, only me personally also put that in a conscious vibe because I'm so you think there aren't club rappers that are writing good lyrics. I think that there are some, But I think that overall the same way that you told me that like a at a

certain point we we get it. I think that that's how I feel about a club hits because I'm like, here are all the things that I at least because because of who I am, Because I'm like, you know, you know me, but if if you're listening, you might not. I'm like a nerd. I'm like, I'm like a pretty uh would you what would you call it? I'm like, you got that book learning person, you know, yeah, you

got the book learning you real chill um. I mean, I don't have this much with the club themes, so that that's why I'm that's what knocks me out of it, because I'm just like, well, I don't drink um. You know. I'm more of a relationship person. I don't I can't do the the the musition together with strangers, you know, I have to. I have to know a person. So a lot of that, a lot of that stuff is out for me. I mean, I'm not in the Harlot out here just rubbing up against any man anytime dicking.

Jamal would say that was that was it at all. I'm sorry, that's what knocks me out. I'm not talking, I hear you. I mean it's like you know, sometimes you know, some man starts rubbing on you and You're like okay, start get off me. You feel broke? Beat it? Um? Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait waite. Sorry to digress again, but how does somebody dance broke? How does

somebody dance behind you broke? It's a feeling, It's it's a vibe, it's a it's just a it's just a knowing. Like I've only probably been in a relationship like one really good man and he was a convicted felon, so, which is neither here nor there. So just like the American justice system hates us. Uh. But like, for instance, I can spot a trash ass dude from fifty paces. I could feel him right, just like I always know

when I see a theater kid. You always know, like within five seconds of talking to somebody, Like when people are like I'm a comic and I was like, no, you're an open micer, like stop, um, it's kind of like the same kind of thing. But there have been times where you just be out and some dude to just come up behind you and you're just like, dude, no, because like some days you go out you're like I just want to dance with my friends. I'm not here to give some man a partial erection. Get off me

right now, this is my question. So I had a dude we were out one night because like I quit wearing heels to the club because I was just like it, right, I don't want to be in this girl. I don't want to be in the group of girls around a pile of shoes, like I'm okay, keep dropping cups in here, the floora's slippery, my busting my ass, this is all

a fire has it. I'm not doing it. But this dude came up behind me one time at a club in Atlanta and I was dancing and then he came up behind me and I stopped moving and he was like hey, and I was like no, and he started hitting me on my side and I'm like, sir, i am not sea biscuit. Stop hitting me on my side. I'm not I'm not doing it. No, thank you. And when he came up behind me, I was just like,

I feel unsavory individual. Uh, Like sometimes you're just known as a criminal behind Like sometimes you just know that like this is not a good part. There's plans of them and tricked just recently, just fooled. But also sometimes you just want to go out. You wanna be with your friends, and I don't want some man behind me

like off me, get off beat a nerd. So like I understand, but there is those times I'm like listening to like you know, club hits and stuff like that where I'm just like, all right, yeah, we're drinking again. We're drinking again, we're taking all the drugs again. We're getting these hos not as other ships. So it's just you can get too full of one or the other. Right, It's like when you go to like a Latin club and they're just like, Okay, we're gonna play get for

a little bit. We're gonna pay up, but I chopped for a little bit. We're playing sausa for a little bit. Because like if you're just hearing like a salt like salsa all night long, or by Chocolate about anger or any of that, because of the dance that you do to those songs is basically the same melody just said a little bit different, and then it's just someone else singing about being in love. So after a certain point you're just like, I can't hear this song again. But

if you put on swavea mentate it's going down. Please know that about me. But like I feel the way about Swave and mentate, like I feel about nuk a few buck, Like that's where I am with both of It's just like if it comes on, I go all the words it's going down. We used to singing in the hallway in my high school. Um so just somebody just being the halve and somebody else save a man thing and everybody going to classic Bessiman and then we keep going to class. So also in the Joe to

see who. Yeah, we had fun. So but it does get to a point where you're just like I can't hear about this club shot anymore. I can't hear about the social shit anymore. You just have to. That's why I can confusing people like don't listen like different genres of music, Like so this is all you listen to. I have met people like that. It's wild. I'll throw on it like it's listenly I have Like the other day I listened to Ariana Grande but chat to song and then a gospel song and this was one two

three yeah. Yeah. So it's like people people who would agree with me about conscious rap that only listened to it and they're too much for me. I'm like, hey, unless you unless you're gonna go do something. We can't just sit here like I've been. I've been in those sessions where you just chill with a fread and they're like, oh yeah, put on put on that other album, put on that other album. And I'm like, this clearly doesn't motivate you to do anything because because they're sad, Josh,

because they're sad. At least when you're listening to a little John you just want to get up and run around or just yell yeah, like you want to do something. Yeah, but is the style tractor my friends getting arrested that like, like I'm telling you, that's I think that's the other reason why I don't vide with club stuff as much, because I just have a lot of bad memory. Okay,

this is that this may have to be cut. This is five though, But I went to a club one time where it was a local you talked about you don't want to hear local conscious wrap. That's like what's going on over there? What I tell you that a lot of because you're from Atlanta, So I think I think I can safely say you've been spoiled with good like underground hip hop beats good. I know, a lot of it's trash. A lot of the time, you'll see some dude and you're at a club or something or

a bar. You're at a club and then they'll just have some local act come up and just tell you what's happening on, like Bouldercrest and you're just like, yeah, that's one great dude, or like whatever they're doing on the South Side, and I'm like, hey, man, like you gotta also, I think you're dry snitching first and foremost, yeah, foremost, that's that's I think that's my other issue is that a lot of these these club hits are not they're

not put together in the most creative way. So then you just end up presenting Exhibit A in court like

like you don't you don't have anything else? Does that you don't have any sort of flowery language to hide the fact that this is exactly what you did, Like yeah, it's like okay, and I shot him and it was like the you know, there's like a whole camp sketch about it where but it was Tuesday and yeah, and you're like, guys, you're making me nervous because I'm here to watch the show like they might, I'm an accessory to what's happening right now. But it's like, but I

think they're there's a place for both of them. I just think for me, it's I mean, I do understand that it's a way to let people know who aren't on the up and up when it comes to like getting their news or before there was like social media and you really only knew you didn't have a whole worldwide kind of like perception of what was really happening in other places. So I think socially conscious rap could tell you what was happening somewhere else because the West

Coast came out with some club boppers. The South known for it. But like I don't know, because like you know, when I like, you know, one of our friends just constantly likes to ship on like Southern hip hop because he thinks that Northern hip hop is better. And I'm just like, what do you niggas do when you go to the club? Truly, truly, if you're in here playing Wu Tang all that, what are you really Because the

thing is they're talking about that much different ship. It's it's just the beat is different, like your sho was like how they sound and what the beat sounds like. But it's like, no one's really I've never been because even like those fucking like spoken with shows are kind of depressing. The neo soul shows is just like, Okay, everyone in here is you're currently I don't know how you burn in sense in your own dreads, but whatever.

So it's like I get it, alright. White man's religion is trash, got it, got it, got it, got it. These crystals will help you. Coo coo coo coo cool, that's what you believe in. Fine, funk with it. But you get in those shows, I'm just like, Okay, everyone's in earth tones and they're still talking about fucking. Like that's the thing at the end of the day. Everybody's talking about fucking, and whatever way you're doing it, you're

talking about fucking. So like I think, like one of the best examples like a socially conscious rap song that I could funk with. It's like, you know, the Tupac song Brenda is having a baby, great example of a socially conscious that you can bop. Right, It's like damn team pregnancy as a problem in our community. Also a I also was like in college when like a Little John was popping off, when a whole krunk music ship

was popping off, I was in college. Yeah, well that's That's a huge thing with music, though, is that I've been told and this is not it's not science or anything, but I haven't been seeing it proved wrong yet that whatever you listened to in high school and the early part of college is going to be music to you forever.

You're never gonna get broken from that thing. Like if you liked a specific thing when you were in high school, even if you veer away from it, you're always gonna have a soft spot for like that that little piece of the genre, right like I always like, you know, it's like I was also in like middle school and like when Nirvana was popping off, or like um, the amount of hood at the amount of I don't think that the Red Hot Chili Peppers know how many black

people fun with them. I don't think they know. I don't think they would know. They would I think they I think they might notice that there are plenty of them at the concert, But I don't think they They don't know enough to then be like we would like to do the Source Awards. I don't know if it's that deep. I'll say that it's like all the subourbon

black people I knew really funk with them. I think about like there's so many times where I was like trying to like listen to socially conscious Wrap and been like okay, and I feel like I should be taking notes. Like every time I listened to one of those songs, I'm just like, oh, we have such we have such Like it's just like it's holding a mirror up to America. It's holding up your mirrors up here, like experience as a black person in America. And I'm just like I

don't want this. I don't want this. Um. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but like I think, like when it comes to like the lyrics, because like we can all we can both agree that like little Wayne is Lwayne is amazing, Like the use of a metaphor the use of as simile, like the imagery is ship like it's you can do. I so appreciate the concession that you're making at the common ground that you're trying to build, but I Little Wayne is my one where

I'm like, I don't don't really care. Okay, here's the thing. I respect his you know, people talk about lyricism, people talk about his um adaptability and how he's kept his music consistently relevant over the years. I completely respect that. But overall, if you want to talk about voices, you want to talk about Kendrick's voice, Little Wayne. I don't six babies that got possessed by one big baby all talking at the same time. I've never heard I've never

heard Little Wayne sound like a grown man. You did his first album when he was fourteen. What's confusing to me about Little Wayne is that he had a deeper voice at fourteen then he does right now. But it's just the way he performs. It's just his performance voice, I guess, because I think when you hear him talking like an interview, he does sound like an adult. But then he sounds dangerous. And I'm like, no, if I don't know, if we could be friends, okay, we book

know you'd never be friends. A little I could try. I mean, listen, honestly, everybody has somebody to talk to, you know, maybe I can. It's so funny because I have ever had been friends with somebody and when of your other friends was like I wouldn't expect you to be friends with them, and you just go, I don't know what that means, but it sounds like disrespect. Yeah, yeah, like, oh your friends, I wouldn't have expected that. I'm like, I don't know if we're gonna I didn't see that coming,

Like I don't know if we're gonna stay friends. We can have in this conversation, but like, okay, it's like I understand, Like my concession would be, it's reporting the news, right, it is telling what's happening in your hood because sometimes like you feel like what's happening to you where you live, sometimes feel like this is the only You're the only

one going through that. So like when it's like when you have like more visibility of like when you just incruise visibility of different groups of people, so like you know, minority groups, people with different like you know, plus size people, people in the disabled community, people in the l G B, t q I A community, you know, the B I, P O C community, like all of these groups like we're not We're starting to see more, right, You're like okay,

It's like it's almost like a representation thing. Which is like, oh, so you know how your hood is sucked up. Guess what, my hood is also fucked up? What's happening over here? I can understand. I can give you that concession work and kind of just show people like you're not the only ones going through this. Sure, but at the same time,

you can't play it at a party though. My concession to you is that I definitely, definitely have enjoyed many club hits over the years, and while I don't always I don't always vibe with everything that comes out, there's usually one about each topic that I'm like, Okay, I ride with this, this is this is like, so, so you know we talked about uh, money, sex, alcohol, all

the stuff I have. At least every year, I feel like I have at least one money song, one alcohol song, one sex song out of the out of the club hits that I that's just to me undeniably good, And for that reason, I can understand why going down that rabbit hole more, I might. I'm I might be more into club hits eventually. Okay, now listen, now, when I find me a husban, right, maybe it'll be easy to find one. When I start saying the word correctly. I don't know. Um, of course you would be right. Its

in my wedding right now. On the program for the wedding, it will have a designated time to swag surf. It is going to happen. Okay, how do you feel about that song? I can start preparing now and then and then I think I'll be good to go. So you don't know how to swag serve. I don't know how to swags serve. Well, m m, that's not required. The way that I swag serve though most of the dance is I think I know how to do. I've been

told to stop. Yeah, okay. Now go to a club and I try to dance toward these club hits, I'm you, I usually end up having to apologize to somebody because I don't know how it is that that no one else is knocking drinkside of people's hands. It's just me, But I'm I'm trying to stay corey, I'm trying to stay on beat. As someone who has known you for a few years now, you do strike me as someone who has a body that would not match up well to music. This is exactly like the Kendrick that because

I already said what I did. I didn't need you to add to the thing. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast, Hold up or is it called hold up? Hold Up? There is no way that we can get off a podcast talking about club hits without talking about the song that has caused us the most amount of contention. And what are you talking about? You know exactly this I'm talking about. Don't you look at me. I tend to wipe things that I think are absolute trash from memory. I I tend to I tend to

try to scrub that out of my consciousness. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. That's right, the amazing crime Mob hit Nuck if You Buck. Don't act like I wasn't gonna bring it up. Here's the thing, here's the here's the Nuck if You Buck is probably one of the songs that I'm most despise because it's not It's not only is it not good flies, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So we were having a thing at work one day. We were talking

about if there was a new Negro spiritual. I cannot believe we went this long without bringing us up. If there was a new Negro spiritual, what would it be? I of course said nuck if you buck. Josh came out of fucking not even left field the parking lot of a baseball game and said Georgia, but not the Ray Charles version of Georgia, the ludicrous version with Jamie Fox singing the Ray Charles verse. I didn't know. I

thought it had to be a hip hop song. If I had known, it was just completely I picked a hip hop was just an any song in the realm of blackness. I picked nuck if you buck. That has brought many people together but also divided so many and you pis rested as many people as it has set free one. The issue was you brought up a song that only I knew and you knew anyone else in the conversation because it was right. I'm talking right, I did that, and I made it just you and me

thing because it was just you with me. I didn't know you were gonna blast it out to the rest of the office. It wasn't blast It wasn't blasted out like that. It wasn't blasted out like that because there were other black people standing the room. We're having this conversation, and they all leached you, like, what song is that? Even Alonso Boden, Uncle Alonso, who was in the office one day, said knock a few buck, of course, and

he knew the song. Even someone who's not even who's black, who wouldn't even grow up in America, who is British, was like, of course, not if you buck? And I said why and They're like, because how it makes you feel? Now I understand that you don't like this song because what did you tell me? It sounds like to you. I don't remember. I can tell you because it hurt me. You said, but it hurt because it was accurate. Okay,

it didn't hurt me, hurt me. But I was like, damn, he's right, you said that nuck if you buck sounds like a G. E. D getting thrown down the hallway of a juvenile detention center. I do recall that. Now. Yeah, Now, anyone I've ever said that too has been like, he's completely accurate. But the song still slaps. That song still slaps. Oh okay. And the thing is this became a running thing in the office. So me being the individual that I am, got Josh a trophy that said for knocking

and bucking and being ready to fight Josh Johnson. Now I was gonna say first place, but I was telling Roy about it, and Roy said, not put runner up, which makes it so much funnier, It makes it so much mainer. And you also it was it was it was I felt hazed because I was I was new. I didn't like I hadn't been at the show that long and I and you mailed it to me. You did. You couldn't just bring it to me like a regular Christian.

You mailed it to me. So then I got sent down to security to get my mail and I was excited because I had never got mail at the show before. I was like, who knows that I'm here? And I opened it up and it was that travesty the way you looked when you walked in my office holding it down by your side. You know, if you've made it this far and listening to the podcast, you're absolutely Jim, you really appreciate you. I just want to thank you

all for me, for us listening. I didn't want to bring up not a few buck at the beginning conversation because I didn't want Josh to be mad at me the entire time. Um, but we had to bring up the Pinnacle. I mean we talked about Little John. We have talked about the Pinnacle Club hit the Banger All Bangers, Okay, Banger of All Banks, really making me regret my concession. Um. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Josh Johnson and I'm doing Say Sloan and you've been listening to A

hold Up because we held up their lives. We'll be back with more hold Up in the future. Bye this Thank Listen to hold Up wherever you get your podcast and watch the video version at Daily show dot com. Backslash hold Up m