Eve L. Ewing - Breaking Down Structural Racism with “Ghosts in the Schoolyard”

closed on Chicago South Side. It seems like a problem that many politicians would claim is just a financial issue. You are a teacher, you are somebody who's worked in this institution. What is the problem itself? Well, the problem is that in America we have two different standards for what kinds of education we want to offer young people. And so if you have money, or if you have access to private school, or if you live in an affluent suburb, you get access to a certain type of education.

And if you were poor and your person of color, especially if you're black, you get access to a different type of education. And so when policymakers are making decisions about kids and those types of schools, the kinds of schools that I write about that people call failing schools terrible schools. Um, there's a different set of standards. And when you look at those different set of standards, how

do they affect the kids? Because when I was reading through the book, there were there were instances and stories that really go back further in time then you would ever think the problem begins. You know, you'd think, Okay, let's just talk about the school. But you argue that you conscious look at the school, you have to look

at everything that led up to the school. Why. Well, this is America, where we know that our country is founded on a history of institutional racism and chattel slavery and Jim Crow and redlining and so on and so forth. And it may seem strange to bring those things up when you're talking about a set of school closures that happened in But basically, the argument I'm trying to make in the book is that in order for us to understand the way schools operate now, we have to understand

that history. And it's not that it's not that long ago. Um. And so I wrote a book that's out, but it begins in nineteen sixteen by talking about the Great Migration and how black people came to Chicago. UM. And I think that that's something that's not just about Chicago. That's about the country we live in, and that in most places, if you look at the history of how the city or the town got to be the way it is. Uh, there's racism in the mixed spoiler alert, just because America.

Let me ask you this, a lot of people shut down in America as soon as you bring up racism or race. You as soon as you say that, people are like, oh, no, here we are again with racism. To those who argue that this is less about racism and more just about money, they say, well, if it's it's not it's not about black or white, it's about rich or poor. How do you respond to that, Well, Um, that's simply not true. Um. And that's the first thing

I would say. Um. And that we actually know that segregation breaks down across racial lines, both in housing and in schools. So black people, affluent black people in this country are more likely to live in low income black neighborhoods than they are to live alongside white affluent people. Low income white people are more likely to live alongside white affluent people. And because that's the way housing breaks down, that has huge implications for the kind of schools that

we have. UM. We also know that we don't actually save money through school closures UM, and so the kind of budget argument doesn't really stand up. UM. But I think that it is uncomfortable for many people to talk about race and racism. And part of what I also wanted to do with the book is to help people understand that racism is a structural thing. It's not just about what's in your heart or how you feel are

interpersonal interactions. It's kind of the air we breathe. It's interesting because the specifically a section in the book where you where you break that down and you talk about how so many people feel like the label of racism is attached to them and they get defense and they say, I'm not racist, I love these kids, I want them all to succeed. And you argue in the book, you're like, yes, you may not be racist, but the system itself is a racist system, and that is something that is oppressing

these kids. Would you argue that that is where it all begins. Because Chicago is often held up as you know, America's child with issues as well. Look at you, but look at what's happening in Chicago. That Chicago's crime, Look at Chicago this Would you argue that it's thoughts at the schools or is all the schools a byproduct of what Chicago is? I think it's the latter. I think that white supremacy and the history of racism in this country.

I often say it's kind of like the virus, and these things are like the cold, They're like the sneeze. So these are the symptoms of a much larger issue. And so the book is about schools, but it's also not really about schools. It's really about the way racism and inequality shape the way we make policy decisions and how that affects kids. Right, And if somebody's out there going, well, if you know what, racism is not my issue, why

should I care? Why should I care about a bunch of kids in an inner city who don't have the best school. Well, I don't spend a lot of time trying to convince that person. And uh, you know, I think that there's a percentage of people. I think this goes with a lot of issues we have in our country. There's a percentage of people that are reasonable, thoughtful, kind people who lack information, and those people I invite them

and welcome them to learn from the book. If you're a person that doesn't fundamentally believe that it's important to provide a high quality education to all kids in the United States and beyond, regardless of where they come from, who they are, I recommend another book to you, and we do the best for Mary Holiday. See. If you are an asshole, do not read this book. This book is not for assholes. Let me let me ask you

this though. Where do you think My publicist is like, oh gosh, I think that's a great selling says don't buy my book. It's just like, don't don't. If you're an asshole, do not buy the book. I think it's a great librari. You know the issues that America faces around it's schooling often, you know, I guess people often points to funding. But where do you think people can begin.

Where do you think politicians can begin, and where do you think communities can begin in rehabilitating schools and getting them to the place where there's not the failing schools. I think the first thing is to understand public schools as public goods and that these are all of our schools, regardless of whether you have a child and roll there or not. UM, this is something that all of us support, and this is something that belongs to all of us, and so we have to take owner ship over that.

And the second thing I think is we have a problem with hyper individualism in our country, and so people like to focus on what's best for my kid. And you know, the Obama administration had a policy called race to the Top. Right, We're gonna have schools compete against each other and then the best school is going to come out on top, and we're gonna incentivize them to succeed, right, And you can't incentivize away poverty, you can't incentivize away struggle.

And these are the things that kids are coming to school with, UM and these are the things that These are the things that are that public educators face every day. And so I think that if we start seeing those as collective problems and stop focusing on, you know, the special kids that make it out and it's like that, but ensuring that every kid has access to a high quality education, that's something we have the means to do.

We just don't have a lot of interest or political will to do it, so I'm hoping the people who do have an interests on the political rule read Thank You So Much. Ghosts in the school Yard and Issue one of Iron Hearts are available now. Issue two of Iron Heart will be available in January. If you're an asshole, do not read this book. Keep viewing Everybody, What's the Daily Show weeknights at eleven tenth Central on Comedy Central

and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast