Discrimination in the Adult Entertainment Industry - Beyond the Scenes

Jasmine and King Noir. We're discussing how the porn industry perpetuates racist stereotypes and capitalizes on racist film titles, how consumers can hold companies accountable, and what constitutes a sexual fantasy. Have a listen, Hey, Welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on The Daily Show. That this is what you gotta think about this podcasts like this podcast is like

a secret family recipe. We got all the ingredients to make that homemade dish that that only your mama knows how to make, and she refuses to write it down and pass it on to anybody because she don't want y'all to be happy after she dies. And you could really do the recipe justice, but you know, but your mama be hating good. It is what it is, So yeah, that's what this podcast is. I'm Roy Wood Jr. And today we're talking about a segment we filmed back in

that asked a very important question. It's the porn industry racist. Roll the clip? Well, no, not that porn clip, roller daily show clip about point, don't roll the point trying to keep our license. There's definitely ractless on the point. This is the only business in the world where a female can say yea and they to a person just because don't color us kind of. Black men are particularly portrayed in ports being th criminals. What do you black men do? In my health? Black women are portrayed as

extremely ghetto. The titles are racist itself. The porn industry will take anything painful to black people and just add a pair of titties, Black lives matter, twelve inches of slave help. They even remade roots cut girls we killed around here. Anybody that would say that there is racism and porn really needs to be slapped. Today I'm joined by segment director Stacy Angels, who helped produce this piece. Stacy, how you doing, old friend? I'm great. Roy. I always

love talking about porn with you well, thank you. I'm happy that you're the only person I talked about porn with at work as well. Hello, Hr, I know you're listening. Uh. Also joining us for this conversation are adult entertainers, life partners and business partners. They're co creators of the adult film production company Royal Fetish Films. She is a licensed clinical therapist. Please welcome Jet setting Jasmine to the program. Jet said, how you doing, madam, Jet Madam? Those okay,

We'll take it. And also, uh, your partner in business and your partner in real life, King Noir king, how you doing? Good to be here now? I'm excited to hear about some stories of racism, because you know, that's what I love talking about as a black person. But first, Stacy, I know how this piece kind of came to be. I don't remember who else was in on the inception of it, but I do remember Trayvon Free coming into my office and he just goes, hey, man, you want

to meet Mr Stone, And I'm sure why not. I'll keep in mind. Up until that point, the pieces I've done were Police Reform Um, the twentieth anniversary of the Million Man March, embedding on the election I was so happy just to do something that was just completely off the wall. And I if I recall, you were relatively new to the show, So what did you think when they brought this piece to you? No, I was super new, and so it was my going to be my third piece.

So I think there were five pieces floating around. And obviously I got drawn to porn because everybody loves porn, Even people who say they don't watch porn love porn.

But then I saw the story and I was like, oh, this is a little bit darker because Trayvon sent me an article that was like white women were demanding more pay to sleep with black men, And as disgusting as that was, it was shocking to me because I don't know, maybe I'm not eve, but when I think of the porn industry, I always think of like sexual free, open mindedness. I never thought that it would be something that had

so many boundaries or whatever. And then when I was researching more on it, I saw that not only is it racist, they're like capitalizing on it with the titles and the premises, and it seemed like a narrative that they were kind of getting away with. And also I never worked with Roy and so it was my first piece of Roy. So I was very excited about that. Yeah,

but what did you find most surprising? Because I'll be honest, like when I was doing a little bit of the research going into you know, for the for the listeners UM.

As a correspondent, it's very important that you get the backstory on the topic that you're researching, because it makes you a better, a more adept interviewer when you're speaking with UM, your your seeing partners, if you will, for this particular that we will call Sea, but the people you're interviewing, you want to know what the hell you're talking about, right, And so I just remember seeing all

of these random racist porn titles. We had a researcher, Devin Devin Learry who was with the show at the time, and she had to watch hours of porn and find the stereotypes so that we could find the jokes in them. And so her desk was so popular, like twelve twelve years of Slave like like like just parodies of just popular films. They were just like, yeah, let's flip that into a porn So was there anything that shot you

about this shoot? I was going to mention Devin Larry because she's she did all the research and she was a second producer at the time. She was amazing. And I said, you know, we need to find a bunch of porn that has that really banks on all those stereotypes of black people being criminals, breaking in, thugs, you know whatever. And I and I was thinking she might have to dig deep, like baby, and it was like instant, She's like, oh my god, I found one. And the

titles were not even the titles aren't even settled. They're just like, oh no, a black man broke into my house. Oh no, there's a black man inside my wife, like they were just it was an embarrassment of riches and it just it was just like so much. She almost gave me too much stuff. And then that was like

insanely surprising to me. And then the second thing that was really surprising was hearing things white women were more willing to do over having sex with the black men, like triple anial penetrate and prostitution and uh, everything was shocking because, like I was saying earlier, I really thought it was just open minded industry, which maybe I am not even that white women will demand more money just to take that black bone. White girls will ask for double, triple,

quadruple the amount to do an inter racial scene. This seems to be the only industry where a white person could just straight up go, I ain't working with no black people today. You couldn't do that. If you work in a fast food spot, you couldn't just go, who's cooking? Stanley? Oh baby, you got to pay me time and a

half if I'm gonna be working with these negros. Jasmine, give me the first time you were on set and you're not like when you're in the middle of racism, like when racism is in progress and you just be sitting there talking to yourself. Can you know what I'm talking about too? Just like in my experience and racism, this fear okay, Jasmine, just hold the chicken and biscuit in your hand and be okay. And actually he's like, wait a minute, did he just asked me the whole

a chicken wing? And walk us through, you know, both of you walk us through that first time that you discover the level of discrimination that exists in the industry or were you put up on game about that from the job? So I think we're both going to be

able to give you a range of examples. And so for me, I was put up on like the reason why royal fetish films exists is because as a consumer of porn, I was like, I can't First of all, I can't watch it and listen to you know, I can't listen to the fake blacks, and I can't listen to the stereotypical tropes. I can't listen to the chicken and biscuit jokes like it. It became a form of entertainment for me. That was like, if I'm enjoying this is something wrong with me and I'm not enjoying it,

So why am I watching it? Now? Where am I going to go to get inspiration to masturbate? Right? So when King and I started working together, it was like, we need to create something that we could feel proud to watch. Um. And we were hearing this from We're already doing sex education and hosting parties and um, we were already hearing this like I don't watch porn specifically from black women because we don't see ourselves reflected. It's degrading. It's hard to feel sexy when you are seeing the

lowest representation of yourself and your people. So I already knew like whatever we created was going to be something that I wanted to watch. Now that being said, as we started to become more popular, at least for me, people we are starting to ask me to shoot for their company. And so I come from uh in this industry, from a privileged space where I can say like, no,

thank you. That sounds like I'm going to be sitting there and exactly how you describe, like I'm in the middle of some racism, and so I was able to say kind of know right off the back, and they're like, oh, well, the scene is going to call for you to do some tworking. Um, nothing's wrong with working, but you've never seen me twork and why would you be casting me

for that? Like, I'm probably not the best person. Like if you want to see great point of toes and some modern dance like sign me up, but for tworking, you know, you're just kind of making an assumption that because I'm black and I do porn, that that's what you're gonna get, right. So, um, but I will say that what I have seen and I've worked enough corporate jobs and for government agencies to know that sort of like baseline of racism. That's there. Um, I look at

where where the bottom line where the dollars roll. And I found that my white counterparts were getting money for hair, for makeup, and for costuming when they shoot. And for me it was like, UM, make sure you bring your own makeup kit and you know we'll we'll do something with your hair. You know you have that style that's so edgy, and um, bring a couple of Okay, bring a couple of bring a couple of outfits, and world

choose from what you have. And then later to find out that this is a line item when my white counterparts shoot. You know, so there are there's that there's also I have found, like even leading into this interview, I was like, let me just go, let me google myself, Let me google myself and the N word, And because I know I don't say it, so somebody had to put it out there. And a lot of my scenes

have been licensed using words that I did not agree to. Now, since those are a lot of those scenes are older ones, since um we got even further up on game, we now make it a part of our contract that they cannot sell our scenes using any type of derogatory language because a lot of times you might be thinking that you're shooting for a company that has your best interests in mind and that sees you as whoever you are.

And then you know, three times around, you're in Germany as the black nigger girl works on big black dick husband or not. They definitely wouldn't say husband criminal, you know, yeah, or ghetto women give blow jobs to pay their power bill, Like it's always like why they need the money in the discript so I've heard. I've never been in anythingsight to edge. I think also with with a lot of the times when it comes to just that open mindedness

of the industry that Stacy had just mentioned. It might be open minded for the white performers, like there's a certain level of freedom that they have even within their titles, but within the black titles there's this whole desperation that is also put with it as well. And for me, I have experienced all the way from the subtle racism to the I've been called niggarron set before you know, Um, I was at the scene. No, it wasn't even in the scene. I was, No, it was it was another performer.

She wanted to have sex with me. Off camera after our scene, and I was like, nah, I got things to do. I was actually about to call Jasmine and check in on the family. And she catches the attitude and messages. We had the same agent, and she messaged the agent, King is being an uppity nigger to my agent. He won't have sex with me off camera. And you know what uppity means. When they call you uppity, that just mean you're not doing what white folks want you

to do. Yeah, they're trying to break you exactly. The company tried to tell me that I should still film with her. I basically had to tell them nothing that I shot with her should ever be released. I had them signed like I wrote some ship on a paper right there, and was like, y'all signing this, y'all never

releasing this, or it's gonna be a problem. So then they tried to tell other people in the industry not to work with me because I because I'm a problem, because I don't want to be called a nigger by my co star. But if she's a white woman, she holds more power than you in the industry because white women are kind of the golden Geese fiscally speaking, for these production companies, right, So I want to challenge that roy. The perception, right is that white women are the Geese state, um.

And I think that that's where it's the election of society in the industry. But when you look at what the top selling genre is, it's in a racial you cannot have you know, a white woman alone is not making the top dollar when you look at the top searches, it's inter racial henti um milf right, So there are certain subsets of the people that are participating in the industry that actually are the clickbait they are, you know.

So this idea that you know, white women have specific power in the industry, it's more of a reflection of our largest society and how we see them as um, you know, without without fault, uh to be protected, to be uplifted, to be held in this prize position. But if we look at the bottom line, they need to sleep with someone other than themselves to bring in the

highest number of clicks, advertisements and money. What is the dynamic on set though, Like if you write and cease and desists on the back of a napkin on set, what is the HRS situation? And that like okay, like let me break it down, because all I know is like is like acting on the set. And there was some time years ago I played an extra. I played a slave in the background of a Civil War reenactment. This is like ninety seven. It's my first ever television credit.

And we're all dressed like slaves and it's you know, they're showing Union soldiers while buying. The director comes over and goes, you know, could you guys mind like you're clapping like he wanted us basically to be doing like some humming and singing around the fire, like singing slave hymnals. And we all kind of looked at each other and it was like, yo, no, I just kind of want to I'm already dressed like a slave. My man, Just

let me just sit here and just chill. How much do you get to challenge when they try to add a little, They try to like, you agree to one thing, and then you get on set and they try and flip the script, King, like has ever been a scenario, But they try to come in and sprinkle a little read your mind, King, I love what you're doing, but let me put racism a time. Let's do it again. I mean, those are the times when you have to make a business decision where it's like, am I comfortable

with this and my walking off set? Am I going to deal with whatever backlash is gonna follow? I have walked up set. I have definitely walked up set. I have had That's what I said. I've dealt with so many. It's sometimes it would be that type of racism where it's like I have a lot of black friends. I grew up with black friends. Like just just recently, I had this thing where he was this is the director.

This isn't like another the director. The first time I ever went into somebody's house and it smelled like Chipland's. I'm like, what what does that have to do with anything that we're doing right now? You know what I'm saying,

you know what I'm saying. So but but it's like stuff like that, and and it did wind up having to It led to a conversation that I was like, I might never work for this company again, but I need to have this conversation in a way that's not gonna completely make them be like, you know, angry black man, but they gotta stop. And it had kind of led to this thing where I can't go he was talking about Atlanta, like some neighborhood. He was like, you know,

white people can't go there. And I was like, where where in America can't white people go? Y'all own stuff? You gotta go. You gotta go to the hood to collect your rent, or there's a burger king there, or there's whatever. You know what I'm saying, There's no place in America that you can't go. But I know if I'm in my Aubrey and I'm running through a neighborhood, I know I can't be there. I can't go to benson Hurst, I can't go to Sundowntowns. That's that's our reality.

That's not your reality, but it's shaped that way. So I had to have this conversation on set with the director and and I know, like and at this point it's just like I'm not in the I'm not in the mood to after this. I am. I know, like, I'm like, look, it's not Also, this is not going to happen to shoot exactly. It's not gonna happen today. And and trying to explain that, like you sometimes will have to, it's not gonna happen for me, and you don't always have. Sometimes you're gonna have to put it

like I can't work with you. But sometimes you just gotta you gotta take that l And that's a tough part about our industry because there isn't an HR department that I could say, hey, you know who who are you going to go to with most of these companies, these these are their own companies or these directors are also the heads and owners of their company. Is there a union? Part of me if this is an ignorant question, but is there like an actors union for adult entertainers

to there? There are some organizations if there's the Free Speech Coalition UM that works too to uphold some forms of advocacy for performers and UM there's also a guild, but it's very very loose. I mean, part of the issue is that the poor an industry is stigmatized from the rest of the workforce. I mean, we literally have a hashtag that sex work is work right. The only time that we're really recognized UM as being a part

of fiscal part of the society is taxes. That's the only time you know, is that what goes into our bank and what comes out for taxes. But UM trying to uphold like a discrimination suit, sexual harassment and those type of things to think about where what what court are we bringing that to. That also validates that what we're doing is work, that what we're doing is consensual, that what we're doing is moral. Um, just sort of thinking about the pandemic that we are that we're still in.

I know everyone else is out of it, but the U. There were the PPP loans that came out for people who you know, had businesses we're trying to keep their employees working. We have a a full production company that we wanted to sustain over the pandemic and keep people working. But the morality clause, there's literally a morality cause in these loans that although we are tax paying, legally producing um, producing content, uh, paying our taxes, etcetera, etcetera, we don't

fall into the requirements. And so you know, because the structures that are supposed to be able to support us with taking whether these are claims up for discrimination, hell hate crimes if you will write being called a nigger on set um, sexual harassment, any type of harassment, or the financial discrimination that I talked about where my co stars are getting paid more for the same work, if

not less than what I'm doing. It's really difficult. It's even difficult to find a sex worker friendly attorney that will take up your clause. So we are really off. It's like a marginalized industry with marginalized people within that industry. It's like we're in the margins of the margin stacy we I know. Within the piece, we talked a little bit about, you know, how the point industry perpetuates racist

stereo types, you know, in the present. The thing that I hated was that we really weren't able to get deeper into the history of porn, you know, in terms of the roots of the racism and all of the other different It talked to me a little bit about some of the pieces and parts that we wish we would have had space for the record. I pitched Porn Part two, but then Trump got elected, and you know,

we had we had different priorities within the building. I mean, I remember initially reading a pitch about it, being like, we wanted to make this like the civil rights movement of the porn industry, making you like the Martin Luther king of it, and trying to um you were trying to like, yeah, I think it was like trying to inspire white women to sleep with black men to you know, and that stigma everybody though, because that was the Oh you just brought it up. There was also a hashtag.

I think there's like a hashtag black Dogs Matter, Like there was like remember like a bunch of absurd ideas that like popped up. If you're like me, you love good pornography, there's a problem. Black people are constantly being portrayed as criminals and sexual predators. Porn companies aren't doing anything to change it. So I am for a limited time only see black people getting portrayed positively and my new porn series Affirmative Actions starring Meet Goodwood Junior Horny.

I'm busy. I've run a Fortune five company. I do not have time to come home and just bang you repeatedly. We only had time to focus on black discrimination. But then there's also the issue of Asians, you know, being presented as made yeah and just oh, I'm so quiet, and Islamophobia being a big part of it. And then oh, you're not light skinned black, your Latino pretend to be a Mexican. So that happens to me all the time. They'd been like, can you play Puerto Rican? What does that?

I'll be like, Yo, Puerto Ricans a black tool. They just were colonized by a different language. What what do you want me to do? And then they get scared sex differently? Do you talk of the accent or la chica I am here? They don't, They like, that's a terrible Puerto Rican. Please don't cancer man, stop playing Puerto Rican. And we can't even so for for example, UM, I'm Filipino and Panamania. Oh my god, me too. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt on Filipino power. Um so, but you

would be casted. You wouldn't be casting as Filipino, um, and neither of mine, you know. And I'm fine, Like I know, I'm a black Filipino and a black Panamanian. But when people ask me, like, you know, what should we put here? And then when it comes out, it's still like black black lady? You know? Can I I'm so sorry this has been like lingering over my mind. Um king. When you were talking about that offensive woman whatever her name is, I don't remember. We don't have

to name her. How the hell do you perform with someone after they throw all these offensive racest for marks at you. How do you perform with them on camera? After that? I don't, I I don't personally um for me, like I said, with with that particular situation, they had

to remove her from the follow up shoots. But the and it's funny you mentioned Puerto Rican because when we was shooting the rest of the scene, like another part of this of this film with two other performers, one who was there for when she said, well, when the whole thing happened, and the other who they brought in to replace her, and then the director Yills cut and then uh, one of the women said, why did you

get mad? I thought you were Puerto Rican and yo and that and that was the end of my working period, like like literally in the middle of I was like, I'm done, I'm done. I can't do this no more. And the craziest ship is they shooting Iowa. So I had to get out of Iowa after this, after this racist situation, and there's nobody that there's nobody to connect with Iowa. After you go through some racist ship. You can't just talk to the brother next to you because

he ain't there. Let me find out they got some porn studios in Iowa. Man, I've been going to It's like in those kind of situations where I said, like, it's like you're gonna have to make a not only a business decision, but there's a certain decision that you have to make for your own humanity. And it's like, nah, y'all, y'all gonna have to pay me to kill fee for this shoot because this isn't this isn't appropriate, this is a bad situation. I'm y'all don't deserve my dick no more.

I gotta go bring out. That's what I tell women too. After the break, I want to get a little bit more into the work that you all are doing at Royal Fetish Films and how are you all are helping

to solve this problem. And we need to talk a little bit about your boy Marty Klein Stacy, who was in the segment, Well you do want found didn't want to interview talking about it's not racism if you don't want to watch black people on camera have and and said whatever, Marty, we're getting too that after the break, this is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes. We're talking about racism and porn a little segment that I did back in shot some of the

interviews out there. I didn't know this King and Jasmine, I didn't know that they like that. The point industry, y'all ran out a nice big, six bedroom house. Each bedroom is a different universe of a set, and there's just multiple adult films being shot concurrently, all in in the house. And I was like, wow, this is a That was like the most shocking thing because I don't know why. Just growing up watching porn, I just always thought that was somebody's real house. Like the concept of

a film set not register. I thought they were just shooting somebody's crib. Actually, me too, that's good, that's good. Into the movie magic right there. Yeah, I was like, that looked like a roach on the wall that I know what, I know what that is it thenbs don't always be clean. Now you want to know something that's really well, I've seen a porn one time. I've been in so many hotel rooms over my twenty five years

of comedy. I can tell the hotel by the quilt pattern and I, oh, no, that's a Hampton, and I'd

be staying at Hampton. But let's talk about royal fetish films and the work that you all are hoping to accomplish with that company, because you know, the first thing I want to do, let's set the table and just talk about the history of discrimination and racism and porn and white women saying they make less money if they have sex with a black person, and what it is exactly you all are trying to undo with with your

film company. So I think a lot of times people like to compartmentalize whatever industry it is, whether it's porn or music or Hollywood film, whatever it is, and think that the racism that exists within it is somehow specific to just that industry. But it always goes back to the same ship. You know, America is born, rooted, and

grew up on racism. You know, America's number one industry was our ancestors here, you know, like just running through the numbers of of our worth, our ancestors worth being worth more than the country and the and the currency of the country, going back to the eighteen hundreds, right.

But the important part to think about with the stereotypes that we see in porn is that those stereotypes were born and how they sold us, how they purchased US, and the fact that, for example, like in Virginia and Maryland, their number one export, if you will, and crop was our ancestors was black folk, and they have breeding plantations.

So like a lot of times people talk about tobacco, rice and cotton, but America also had breeding plantations that they sold our ancestors on, and they had specific ways

that they did it. So like, for example, black men were a lot of times specifically purchased by the size of our penis because whatever these racist slave owners back in the day, they were like, oh, he'll probably make more babies because his penis is bigger, or whatever the funk they thought on some horse stallion type ship exactly exactly. And you know, so that is one stereotype that we see to this day because if you look at just percentages across the planet man dick's range, there's big and

small of all races. But the perception of black men's penises being larger is because for however long these white men just sat there with black men on the stage looking at us butt naked and trying to select our dick size the ship has been imprinted on their brain because that's what they look for in US it's also what they fear in us because they have raped so many black women, black men, and black children over this time. You know, when you look at just the history of

film and the history of entertainment. First ever, you know, popular groundbreaking film they say is Birth of a Nation, you know, and Birth of a Nation was all about the clue plus Klan stopping black men from raping white women. Man Dingo was all about a slave owner who goes on a trip and was afraid that the mistress of the house was going to sleep with his slave, Man Dingo, because he had been raping all these black women on

the plantation. And this is American popular culture. First popular culture in music was minstrel music, black white people in black face imitating us. So all of this stuff culminates important because these fantasies have been stuck in their head for hundreds of years. So now they get to put out twelve inches of slave as a thing for just like as you mentioned, for for twelve years of slave, or this this fear of any kind of movement that we have in a positive direction, where you saw like

that film that was called Black Wives Matter. These feelings and perceptions, Yeah, they're they're they're rooted in all of these fears and racist ideas that they've had of us for years and years. And if you look at a lot of the stereotypes of black people, they are also based on what they did to us on the plantation and kind of how they manifest themselves in the world today. So I think something that's really important when you said, like,

what are we doing to fix this? Hopefully the work that we do, I hope that changes the industry, but so much more important to us is helping us realize our range of sex and sexuality. And I say our black and brown people who also are terribly impacted by these stereotypes, not just from like oh, I can't find anything to watch imporn, but I don't have any reflection

of what I'm supposed to be like sexually. You know, we talk about folks that are on some of these sets and can't walk off that they don't have, you know, the means to be able to make that type of financial decision, how that leaves their psyche. We deserve to be a part of this industry just like anyone else. If this is how we would like to monetize our body. Some people want to type for a living. Some people want to you know, play sports, act what have you.

We choose to have sex and to do sexual acts for a living. We deserve to be in this industry without harm. We want our population to be able to type in uh, you know black couples in romance b d SMU, kinky, black and kinky and see something where they are not the fetish, that there's an actual act of kink and fetish of sex that doesn't have to be degrading, that doesn't fall into these racist tropes. That allows us to see other types of bodies interacting with

each other, people from different walks of life. You know, just so many different expressions that unfortunately we don't see. Um. The other work that we're doing at Royal Fetish Films are we are sticking it to these larger, larger companies. We're going on their pages and we are consulting with them and letting them, letting helping them understand that if you can't see it for yourself, seat for your bottom line, your your search engines, all your algorithms show that people

want to see us in film. And when I look at your site and you know, point me to your premium content or your front page. All I see are white women that are of a certain uh, certain size and appear to be of a certain age, a younger age, and that is that's a mismatch. You're not even marketing to your consumers. You're not marketing to what people are are looking for. We're challenging them to um see the

black dollar in the adult industry. It's important for us to help our people be represented, to see themselves because the way that you what you see important. UM. We know that it's a primary source for sex education because there is no sex education in this country. So you know, if people are gonna learn there, I want to make sure that my interactions, my sexual interactions aren't based on somebody's terrible education that they got from you know, the

front page of one of these tube sites. Um, if people are going to learn that this is this is how I have sex. Like, it's important in our films where we are showing people are having conversation about what kind of sex actually want to participate, that you have autonomy of your body that you you know, can be bound and suspended and checked on, and showing that on camera and part of the scene and consent and intimacy and closeness and conversation through the actual process of intercourse.

I mean, our ship ranges from sabio sexual all the way to like hardcore BDSM and everything in between, because black sexuality is all of that. And there were so many times people would say stuff to us like that's some white people ship, and we would challenge that and like, no, it's not. You really think people only started this way within the last three or four years. No, our people have been spanking each other on the ask for thousands of years, you know what I'm saying, Open your mind,

you know. So that's what really got us into like how can we decolonize these ideas and and open up our people's minds and do it in a beautiful way, because sometimes when you look at mainstream porn, I'll be looking like they don't even give some coconut oil to not be askey on set because they don't know how to make our bodies look good anyway, you know what I'm saying, From the lighting to coconut oil, the wigs, the makeup, you know, all of it, and having things

that reflect our culture, like music that you actually wanted to playing in the background instead of whatever it sounds like, you know from back in the day. We try to make everything that reflects our culture and who we are. Stacy, I guess the challenge we have is trying to figure out a way to make everything they just said funny. Yeah, how do you dig and navigate the seriousness of this topic?

Is still find room from hum for humor other than getting me to talk to Dr Marty Klein in the segment who said if I and I'm I'm gonna paraphrase, but he basically said, if you're into some ghetto ass porn, it doesn't mean you're racist. It's the fetish. That's just what you're into. It's not that big of a deal. I think that anybody who reads racism into pornography they're just prejudiced about certain kinds of sexual fantasies. These are

real titles. Oh my God, a black man banged my daughter in the ass black bull for higher King Kong's Ding Dong. It's a fantasy. It's easy to find humor in some in something with such an outrageous counterpoint of view, But like, what were some of the other ways that you're able to find humor and working with you helps. You're very good at making depressing subject matters funny, which

is the gift. And but he I think when people are stupid and say, you know, terrible things, it's I think it's taking their logic and flipping it on them. So I think you did a good job of that. When he was like, it's just a fantasy, like Star Wars or whatever, and you're like, okay, so let me get this straight. If I saw a white woman and I said, hey, you crack a bit, you've got some big as breaths, well the squeeze, that would be racist, yes, But if I hadn't a action while I said it

to him, that's fantasy. It's a fantasy. It's like Star Wars. Porn is like Star Wars. It's not really when he says those words that were out there like he sounds so I think one way to find the humor is just like these people that are so narrow minded, taking their logic and taking it to the absurd extreme and you know, flipping it to that point Jasmine and King then to to Dr Marty Klein, it's just fantasy. When

do these fantasies cross a line? Like how like is it about being tactful and showing only white like if I only want my white woman with white men. But also do we like like like you're not like going YouTube after you watch three videos, you gotta watch fifteen second pop up? Do we show the fifteen seconds of inter racial before you go back to theay? Oh? Like

I think. I think one of the things is like if you just think about it, if you went to the Daily Show and was like, I don't want to work with any Chinese people today, you would not have a job tomorrow. No, you know what I'm saying. But but in porn people say I'm not working with any black people, and that might not even just mean someone on camera. That could be there's no black director or black key grip or whatever. You know what I'm saying.

So that's one thing. And then also as like, you know, have you ever heard the term queen of spades? No? No, later, So queen of spades is some racist that ship, but it's white women who will only sleep with black men, and a lot of them they get this tattoo of a queue with with a spade, And anytime you see the letter Q by itself, it's usually a problem. So alphabet but but so, but the tattoo, because it's it's kind of like this his this whole like a branding.

It's it's like a but it's it's it's it's more like a white Lives Matter shirt in a way, because you know if someone called if someone walk up to me and called me a spade in the street, we fight. You know what I'm saying, like spade has been it's it's a racist term. So basically it's like I'm a queen of spades. So it kind of goes back to that history that I'm talking about from the plantation because a lot of times people only talk about overseers and

slave masters raping slaves. Mistresses did the same thing, you know, So it's rooted in that same thing, like these black men serve my pleasure, that's it. None of the black men that they were with are they talking about his intellect, his creativity, his love for fine arts. It's literally, he is here to pleasure me, and that's all the purpose that he serves. And then going back to the klient thing, it's like when you if you have a fantasy that is rooted in something that in the world is making

people's lives it's problematic. I like to use people's fantasies um as a way of helping them understand like things outside of their fantasies. Right, So when I'm working with therapists on how to use poorn and practice, it's like, what does the point that you watch what? Um? What does it say about about you? How do you feel when you watch it? Right? Does it? Um? You know, if you're only watching this particular style, why is that? What is it telling you? Are informing you about those people?

If it's like a specific type of people that you watch, you know, is it an attraction? What are you attracted to? Are you fetishizing in the person? Are you letting out an aggression towards that person during that time? Is it because you're curious? Um? And and then helping them explore what would that fantasy look like outside of the fantasy?

Is there someone at work that you never speak to, um, but you just go home and like you know, Google, I don't know the janitor or something along those lines, um, What would that interaction be like? Can you interact with someone in a way that is not hyper sexualized or fetishized or is your only connection? Like King said, through these stereotypes. So you know, there is when when people are sharing, if they're willing to share about their racist

sexual fantasies. And I know we can be so quick to just want to shut them off and call them racist, and that would be true and that is okay. But if you do have like the capacity to go a little bit further is to you know, help them become curious about why that is and how that is really

shaping their ideas about these people in reality. When you said that janitor thing, and maybe you think of this this one site, it's like a mental institution and the men play doctors and the women are patients, right, And so I got booked for this site, and so like I go on their Twitter the day before and they're like shopping for the scene and they're getting stuff from like home depot. They're getting like you know, like the big yellow mop tubs and stuff like that and mops

and ship and so I hit my agent. I'm like, can you ask them what what role they have me playing in this? And then so you were like You're gonna be the janitor. It was like never I was going to be the first black man on their site, and they were like, Nah, you're gonna play the janitor. Why can't you be a doctor that also has sex with the patients unethically? Well, after the break, we're gonna bring it home and ask a single question, who else can help y'all make the change and who is responsible

for helping y'all clean up this racism and polling. This has been a good discussion to us far. Let me do a little research in the second tad while we go to this break. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes. This has been a wonderful conversation. I knew it would be serious stacy, but I just didn't know it be so heavy and rich with just knowledge and just folks straightening this stuff out because you know, Jasmine as a therapist, like you have

to approach this from a like like you can't. You don't have the ability to just yell at white people in white time ago. It's racist and y'all need to stop. You have to like get into the idiosyncratic aspects of the well, the finances. It'll make more money. Did you know that your consumers would also enjoy like talk a little bit about that aspect of it, of trying to turn the corner with people who don't understand just how damaging and emotionally corrosive this is for everybody who's taken

a part of right. So a couple of things. One is, UM, I really want to give props to The Daily Show for doing that segment that was probably risk a UM.

Even though y'all touch upon a lot of a lot of controversial topics, you know, when it comes to port that usually is an area that everybody can go like, you know, we all watch it, but we all pretend that we don't and that it's dirty and it's grow And I use the clip UM in our presentations when we're talking about the colonizing sex, as well as educating therapists and medical providers on how they can communicate with um,

you know, with their clients in using adult entertainment. So UM, you know, it's like using something that we know everybody watches The Daily Show and being like to see people are talking about it in mainstream and you know even they're able to make the connection. So of course you can at your higher level make this connection for your for your folks, and also challenge your own attitudes and behaviors on sex specifically by what you watch UM and

how that perpetuates in your work that you do. But our work, you know, we draw it out even beyond porn into sex work, right because people who produce UM, who perform in porn and produce porn our sex workers. And it's really important for us to normalize sex work. So when we are talking to and we provide education to therapists, medical providers, even realtors, like how you y'all are missing out on a population of folks that are looking for safe places to live um and affordable you know,

their money, take their money. But in order to take their money, they have to trust you, right, and you have to legitimize the work that we're doing invalidatus and a lot not discriminate. So oftentimes I'm always coming at it from the perspective of like, we are a huge population. There's someone in your family that engages in sex work, UM,

and if they don't, they probably will. Looking at the projections of the economy right now, right, so go ahead and do something that's a lot of people are only fans the pandemic fans shot up. It shows in we need to go back to the bank on that only fans. I've seen them numbers. I said, Man, let me go give me some big nick peels. You don't even have to do that. Every everybody is there, so money for everybody.

There are coins. Trevor no I heard Trevor no. I was leaving the Daily Shots and man, let me see be the only thing instead of no really, So you know, it's it has been so important for us to normalize sex work, normalize porn right that you watch it and you should feel good about watching it. It's a form of entertainment, just like everything else. When you know, we should be able to watch it with the sound on, You should be able to watch it without being offended.

You should be able to find a reflection of yourself and so um really helping the consumer, like take some charge of what they're consuming. You don't have to just eat it because it's in front of you. There is a menu that's out there, and we help them learn how to shop for it. So you know, Royal fetish xxx dot com go check it Royal fetish x x x dot com. Who is responsible for making effective change?

You know, we've talked about the production companies, we talked about the a website will take a video that ain't even what the slug title says, it is just because they know to get someone to click on it and stay within the site, so they'll augment the title of something that our production company made. Or is it the consumer? What responsibilities do the consumer? Like? Who is who? Who could help? Who was the next person to join you? Like when Batman Winning got Commissioner Gordon to help him

clean up Gotham? Who is the next person? Is that the consumer? Is that the production company? Is that the website and the distributors like I'll start I'll start with you King. I think it's everybody to be honest, but I think it's very important the work that we do to inform the consumer of how to purchase non racist

and ethically made porn. So, you know, if somebody doesn't know that they can go to Royal Fetish or doesn't know the other sites that they can go to where they can find content that is not only you know, pro everybody and non racist, but also where they can go where they know that the performers are are involved in acts that they enjoy, um that they're not they're on some you know, desperation. Then they'll make the right decision.

It's like that scene with Elijah Muhammed selling Malcolm X. If you choose between the dirty water and the clean water, people are gonna choose the clean water and people and I might not want to think of porn as clean and dirty water, but there it's some porn with clean water out there that you can find that has all the things that you're looking for, that that involve all your fantasies and show you different routes of pleasure, but

you can do it in an ethical way. Yeah, it's all parties involved, everybody that is benefiting from from porn. So the production companies need to stop being lazy, like fix the template. The scenes need to be more reflective of the people that are in them and the people that are watching them. Um, the performers, I definitely feel like we have a responsibility to have some advocacy, some

self advocacy and draw the picket line somewhere. You know, not everybody could jump off set, but you could try to negotiate. You can be upfront with what you're comfortable with before having that that little bit of racism sprinkled on you right like you mentioned, um, so go in, go into those situations already describing you know what your

boundaries are. Um, I think the consumers also need to follow the performers directly and um you know, I say the easiest way for the consumers to to engage with work that they could feel good about is if the performer is promoting it. Usually we're not going to promote something that didn't make us feel good on set, or that we're not proud of, or that we didn't have

um uh consent in in the labeling of it. Right, So you know, if you're gonna watch something like, get to know the performers, and this helps us also humanize the industry itself. It's like, oh, I like what King had to say. Okay, go find his work and look at what he's promoting and purchase that or watch those scenes, because more than likely we are going to again promote the things that we feel good about. And then finally,

I do think it is the advertisers. They're making money off of our backs, but they're not willing to hear our demands. So it's really important that advertisers stop pouring money into sites that are acknowledged won't acknowledge that this stuff is problematic. And that it needs to be removed. So yeah, and if you see stuff like the same way you can. I think for consumers, I don't want to put so much responsibility when people are anxious to have orgasm that they have to like stop and write

a letter before they can engage in the work. Right. Um. But one of the things that you can do, the way that we touch all forms of social media and content is like don't like it, like report it right, or just put it thumbs down and keep it moving if you have to. Um. So it's a small way, but it lets people know that are putting a shipped out that it's like, oh, this didn't do so well, something about it. Maybe I should take the racial slur out of it. You know, we need Stacy, we need

we need like a ethical, ethical porn logo. You know they got that recycled logo like the organic like, yeah, you didn't murder nobody to make this product in the well. Thank you all so much. That's all the time we have for today. Thank you to our guest Stacy King Jasmine. Thank you all for going beyond the scenes with me. Now I appreciate open up these tabs that I had minimized real quick play the theme music. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast, the I

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