Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie - "Dear Ijeawele" and Raising a Child to Be a Feminist

the word feminist as a negative thing? Um? Because I think that feminism has long been associated with the most extreme versions of it. So people think of feminists is sort of a crazy woman who hates men and doesn't shave and right to all of these sort of really crazy negative stereotypes and an attached to feminism, and so people don't want to associate with it. That people who have said to me, why do you call yourself feminist? Why don't you just say you're a humanist or an equalist?

But that is what feminism is, right, right? Feminism is about justice for everyone. But you have to name a problem, and the problem is it's women who have been excluded, So we need to call it what it is. Wow, that's fascially because that's that's um in many ways. In many ways, that's that's the same thing people say about black lives matter. They go to one to say all lives Matter's like, well, we know the rest of the

lives matter. The problem needs to be exactly. The book that you have written here is really different from your other offerings. It's a feminist manifesto in fifteen suggestions. And I like that you keep making it easier and easier and easier for people to be feminists. This this is a really interesting How did this book come about? So a few years ago I wrote, my friend had a baby, and so she said to me, I won't have to be feminist. I want have life to be better than mine.

What should I do? I was like, I don't know, And then so then I thought I should write her letter. It was an email that I wrote to her, and and then I decided to turn it into a book and I made a few changes, but really it was for my friend. And only after I had a baby my daughter is still and I have did I realize how easy it is to sort of tell people what to do about child raising when you don't have a child. It's much easier to deal with a hypothetical child than

a real child. But I'm still trying to follow all of the suggestions. It's it's just that it's it's more difficult than you would think. What would you say is the most difficult part of teaching a child, of raising a child to be a feminist. You know, it's not that it's it's easy to do, but it's that you have to fight against It sort of feels like the

universe has a conspiracy against you. So you you tell your child, you know, you don't have to play with dolls, but then you go to the store and the girl's sections are just dolls, and you know there's still very much that that blue and pink biner in the wall, and you're trying to teach your child that you know, you can be who where you want to be. So it can feel as though there's a lot that you need to push back from the world. But but it's doable.

I'm I'm very optimistic about how we can change the world. What I've always admired about your your words on feminism is that you you don't seem to live in a world where it's abstract or it's just extreme, Like it never seems to me like you talk about feminism like it's like this is how it is, and it's it's

that is the way it is. Like in the in the book, for instance, there are some suggestions where you talk about how you can encourage your daughter, if she's a daughter, to be anything she wants to be, to like blue, to play with boys, toys, et cetera. But that shouldn't mean that she should shun her femininity. That's

not what feminism is. So when people find themselves caught up in a conundrum with feminism, like what is the one thing they could say to themselves that just makes it easier to understand, Um, think of yourself as an individual, right right, there's no I mean, I think feminism and femininity are not mutually exclusive. And I think that the early feminist in the West sean femininity because femininity had for so long been used as a way to put

them down. So women were property, You're supposed to look pretty and stay at home. So I think when we meant it to push back against that, they were like, we don't want pretty. But I think now we've come to a stage where we can accept that people can be many things. Right, you can be feminine and feminist. It depends on whether you want to be. The problem is if somebody is pushing you to be what you

don't want to be, then that's not feminism. So so I usually say to women who are thinking about it, just think of your your individual self. Right, what do you like and is that thing causing you harm? Right? Is it? Is it somehow? Is it reducing your spirit? Is it making you resentful? Because I think that when there's really quality, resentment will not exist. Right in relationships where people are unhappy because there's a gender problem, there's resentment.

If there isn't the problem, you just you don't have resentment. You kind of know, it's intuitive, I think, Right, what would you say that it's still possible for a woman? I mean, I know my mom always says this to me, but some people struggle with the concert. Would you say it's possible for a woman to say, I am I'm a feminist, I believe in equality, but I still want a man to open the door for me. I like

that gesture? Or is that problematic and of itself? You know the thing about by the way, your mother is wonderful just from reading your book. You're so fortunate to have been reached by her. I'm serious. I think I think everything good in you is because your mother is. You know, what's funny is now we now know. I appreciate that. But and the way you said it is it's a beautiful compliment that sounds like an insult. You know. It's just like everything good in you is from your mind.

The rest of that ship is you. That's you and your dad. But yeah, but thank you, but but but you respond to that. I think I think, just just like holding the door shouldn't be gender, and I think it's a lovely thing to hold the door, but we should hold the door for everyone, right right, I hold the dolphin men and women. So I think the idea of sort of holding the door for a woman because

she's a woman, I have trouble with it. I'm quite happy for people to hold the doll from me, but I hope they're not doing it because of this sort of idea of chivalry. Because ship is really about the idea that women are somehow weak, right right right, and

and need protecting. But we know that really that many women who are stronger than many men, right, So really, what I think is that the people we should protect are people who need protecting, whether men or women, which is also why I sort of have trouble with the idea of women and children when women are classified in the same You know, when when there's a tragedy and we say women and children should leave first, I think, actually, is the people who are weak un well, you know

that's interesting, we should leave first. Yeah. Wow, This is like a more eloquent argument of what some of the guys on the Titanic said. They're like, I think my man would want me to leave women and children say, we have, but but I really do understand what you're saying here. There's there's a fascinating passage in the book, and this was It's called the seventh Suggestion, And in this it's um the line that the paragraph starts them,

never speak of marriage as an achievement. And then when we skip forward, it says, when Hillary Clinton was running for president of the United States, the first descriptor on her Twitter account was wife. The first descriptor on the Twitter account of Bill Clinton her husband is founder, not husband.

Because of this, I have an unreasonable affection for the very few men who use husband as their first descriptor do you think in that moment it made you feel like in society we've created a world where the best thing you can be as a woman sometimes is a wife to a man, but a man can have every other achievement. Was that the problem with that idea for yourself? Yes, yes, But it's also the larger question of what we expect

of women in public life. Why I think that there are many people for whom Hillary Clinton is not relatable unless she primarily defines herself in domestic terms wife mother, but wife in particular, because I think it makes people feel comfortable. I think people are very um. People don't know what to do with the idea of a woman who has or who's seeking power, and so the way to somehow temper that is to say, well, wife and

a wife. So therefore I'm not that scary, right, And it's not I mean, obviously, I think marriage is a wonderful thing and it can be, you know, just such a joy and all of that. But it's that we raise girls to aspire to marriage in a way we don't raise boys too, and I think there's a problem with that. So you have little girls who from very early on thinking about the wedding dress, right, I don't know how many boys think about the wedding xeros. Yeah,

that's true. So what it means is that there's there's an immediate imbalance I think in just the idea of what is aspirational. And so I think what we should do is in raising boys and girls, teach them that love is wonderful, marriage is wonderful, but none of that is something that wants you aspire to. Right when you say to a girl, oh, you've got you got your PhD.

But when are you getting married? Right, which is a common phrase we hear all the time when when raising a child and shaying I'm going to raise a feminist. For many people, the immediate connotation that will come to their mind is that means you're raising a daughter. But from reading your work, a lot of the work has to be done by men. Men need to participate. Why is that so important? Because men have to be on board. I think you can change women all you want if

you don't change men, nothing changes. Because we share the world. It's men and women. And I also think sadly that we live in a world where men are more likely to listen to men. Oh, it's true. Wow, you don't think so, So then how do you convince the first man? Um? I think some men have already been convinced. I think people like Barack Obama, for example, is a very good role model because he's feminist and he's cool, right, so, so he's actually good and we need more men like

that to speak up. I think men need to speak up. Men need to be on board. Men need to not think of feminism as something to sort of, um, something that's attacking them, because I think some men think that they need to understand that feminily to me something that's good for everyone, because really, when all of us are released from gender rules, we're all better off, right And in the end, it's about justice, don't We want to live in a just world. So there's some men who

have been convinced. More men need to be travel You should get cracking. Ha ha ha oh oh man, I'm gonna call my mom. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna call on Thank you so much for being on the show. I really love to taking to you every single time. It's an amazing book. Dear is available now. Chimamanda d Everybody The Daily Show with Covernoa Ears Edition. Watch The Daily Show weeknights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central watchful episodes ian videos

at the Daily Show dot com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast