Charlamagne tha God On The Problem With DEI

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After the murder George Floyd, white people across America looked around and said.

Wait a second, are we racist?

So America took a good hard look at itself and when big corporations saw themselves in the mirror, they said, oh shit, we're white as And to address this problem, businesses turned to a solution called diversity.

Equity and inclusion are DEI yo, what up? Everybody?

Welcome to The Daily Show Ears edition. This you boy Ashton Walmack, stand up comic writer for The Daily Show. I'm here with the one and only you have seen him before. They is no stranger to the show. Please help me.

Welcome Charlie bayth the God. This is awesome.

I'm like, no, I'm super excited for you one being here, and I'm definitely excited about this piece you're doing. My first question is, honestly, I got some questions on the paper, but I do have a personal question. I pitched the piece D piece during Black History Months, but they were like, they hit me up. They're like, charlottetne wants to do.

To No, I didn't necessarily have a peace in mind, but DEI is something that's always, you know, top of mind for me because I often wonder who comes up with these things, and so you know, when everybody is up in arms over something, I want to pay attention to it to see what has them up in arms. And it all comes back to, you know, blackness, right, like anything that, like I said in the piece, anything that,

They've never wanted black progress.

I feel like, but it's that like they don't want black progress because I feel like it's like it's like a saying I always heard, it's the equity saying, like you gaining anything makes it feel like you're taking something from.

There, and that's ridiculous, Like there's more than enough to go around, I mean, and by the way, I don't even know if what's going around is the actual pie they're eating from. They have a large enough pie that they don't even have to give us a slice of that give us. We can have our own ovens and our own ingredients and bake our own pies, you know what I mean, Like, we don't need a slice of your We don't need that, I trust me.

I think that point comes up. That point comes up a lot in my life because I used to be like, man, I want to go to these clubs. I want to go to these white clubs. And I finally get I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna go to the black club. I'm gonna go to our response. No offense to them. It's just like, oh, you know, there's enough of your own that's right, your own pie.

And what usually happens in those situations, our pie tastes better. So then they come around and they try to get a piece of our pie, you know, And that's that's not that's the problem. Okay, we got this over here for us, y'all, got that over there for y'all. Now, at some point we can come together and collectively, you know, do something. But let the cooking.

Jack Harlowe stay your lane, bro until then. Okay, So we're here talking about d I uh so, how was the writing process? How's the whole process been for you coming in.

I love it, man.

There's not too many things I love more creatively than coming in here and sitting down with the writing team of The Daily Show man, I mean, the best in the business.

I think that they were already on their A game.

I think John, you know, the legend John Stewart coming back got everybody even sharper than they was he did.

He came back, I was like, oh, I gotta work, That's what I'm saying.

Like, I thought y'all were super sharp last year when I hosted the show a couple of times, but just even coming back now, it's even more sharper. And I mean even sitting in the We were on a zoom one time, you know, talking about the DEI stuff, and John just popped in on the zoom and John was like, Yo, Charlie, I want to give you this, And so he gave me something that actually unlocked a whole bunch of other thoughts, which probably the writers hated, because no, no, not at all.

I sent like thirty forty different.

I swear to you, not at all when he said that. At the point, you know, the point he was making was about like how slavery you know this is all.

Kinds of ZI was created by the oppressors, Yes, exactly, And so that made me start thinking about, yeah, this is something that corporate America created, and now corporate America is upset about. And when you look at like what happens a lot of times in these cases, right, most of anything that causes black progress is going to cause

It used to be third I stuff. It used to be with my dad with smoke weed. He'd be like, you gotta boy, you gotta get woke. Now I don't nobody now we don't even want it. They're hoping we do that with DEI. That's why they take the words right, diversity.

Of course black people want that, equity, of course black people want that inclusion.

Of course black people want that.

But they're hoping that we go, man, we don't even want diversity, equity inclusion.

On which is why I love how we tackle this piece. We literally expose them, expose them for all they're just racist, the racist rhetoric they've been using on DEI, and then we actually take a real nuanced look at what DII.

Is and like address like is this good for us?

And I genuinely like love how we went about tackling Absolutely.

The truth about DEI is that although it's well intentioned, it's mostly garbage. Okay, it's kind of like the Black Little Mermaid. Just because racist hate it doesn't mean it's good. And you know I'm right because every one of you is sat through one of those diversity training sessions and thought this is bullshit, and it's not just you. Over nine hundred studies have shown that DEI programs don't make

One thing I noticed, I see how deeply you are inspired by John and like Late Night and watching your show, and when you come in and host you can feel your study. I can tell whenever you like with hosted, you can feel that like you were truly in this. That's that's one of the pleasures I feel like working were working with you is because you are actually like You're like one, You're like like, I love this shit,

The Daily Show is the cultural institution. I've read the Daily Show book twice. I've listened to the audio back probably twice, so you know, I'm familiar with you know, Jen, and like all of these people that you you heard from in this book, and then you get to meet them and then you realize.

Why they've had the success that they've had.

That's the other thing I'm so intrigued by nowadays, like longevity, right because we live in such a flash in the pan era. So I like to see people who not only evolved from whatever position they started in, but were able to maintain, you know, that level of success operating on a high level for so long, Like even if we you know, when you talk about even like athletes, right, like Lebron James is going to be studied in the future. Tom Brady is going to be studied in the future.

For Joe Biden is going to be studied. No, he will not be.

He will not be longevity, folks, that's that is one that we will be saying, should have hung it up long ago.

But no, I absolutely to your point. Jen twenty five showrunner, been here twenty five years.

It's incredible, isn't it to me?

Like one of my heroes, somebody I'm like every time I just look across the table her work and I'm like, bro, you you really be.

Putting into work. She's been holding this place down.

Like because it's a system, and I'm big on systems. I think systems lack in a lot of areas. Like there's a lot of areas in my life that could use a real system. I'm not gonna put anything on blast, but there's a lot of, you know, areas in my life that I know would be way better if we had an actual system.

And that's what I love about the Daily Show. I rave about it all the time.

Even when I'm not here, I just I'll be at my other places complaining and like, see, we don't have a system.

I can tell.

I'm only brought it up because I love the Daily Show as well, Ben a fan since I was a kid. When I'm in here, I soak it all in. I appreciate it, I give it all I can. And I saw I just see that in you Hope being the host doing the same thing. So I just wanted to say, I see that shitt brother, that's fire. That's why it makes it a lot easier and this piece even funner to work on somebody who's like in it. But speaking of I do have a question about the D piece. To bring it back to the DEI. We had a

Because we don't want that either, Like the one of the things that we complain about a lot is mediocrity. Like, you know, you'll have white people in these, you know, positions of power and they don't bring anything great to the table either. They're just there because they're the mediocre white man. So you know, you don't want DEI to come around and they just have the mediocre woman there or the mediocre black person there.

You want people who are actually great at what they do.

The problem with a lot of these things is that when you hear, like a Charlie Kirk or whoever, just because I'm black don't mean I'm mediocre. So you can't say things like if I saw a black pilot, I would be afraid, or if I saw a black pilot, I would second guess whether or not I wanted to be on the plane.

That's your bias, that's your racist bias.

You look at black people as inferior, right, So just because I'm black doesn't mean I'm inferior. Just because you're white doesn't mean you're subperio. So I was just like, we don't want any mediocrity, period.

Do you think this rhetoric, like you said, Charlie Kirk, he's going around saying black people are mediac and invoking that kind of feeling towards when any time you see a black person in power. Usually typically when Republicans and conservatives have found their talking point, they hammer that. They hammer it down until as you can see a mass wave of people who are kind of psychologically weak to

Do you think that might stick? Is that something like is that something we should be afraid about? Like this, it's already I think it's already stuck. It's stuck. It's been sticking for four hundred plus years.

But that's part of almost like the actual Republican talking point.

Yes, because they believe that they believe that, we know, the Republican Party, you know, is the Party of the Confederacy, has been forever. So they already believe that there's nothing they're saying now rhetoric wise, that they already haven't felt forever. It's been passed down from generation the generation degeneration. That is the narrative they have a black people, that is the perception they have a black people. That's why profiling

All of that already exists.

So if you already feel that way, there's nothing I can do to change that. President Barack Obama was considered a mediocre negro to conservatives. You could tell by the way they spoke to him. You could tell by the language.

I would say, he was affront to like, you know, I'm not about to sit here and gasp Obama.

You know, he got all his things.

But I would say, in the white eyes, they have this image of the great white man, and I thought to them, while he was so scary, was because he was in the.

Front to that, now you see a great black man, I.

Think, I think, to the conservatives, he's still a nigga, you know what I so, So as long as you're looking at a person and saying they still nigga, you looking at them as mediocre. You looking at them as inferial. You know, you've dehumanized them in some way, shape or form.

No, that's that's a great point.

I was only asking the mediocre point because I was like, I wonder if he had a specific mediocre black person in mind, specifically because I was like, we can make fun of him on the shop.

Well, actually, you know what I was talking about.

Wh When I was thinking about that, I wasn't thinking about black person as an individual. And and I hate the even do this, but this is the line of business that I'm in. I'm in the entertainment business. So I was really just thinking about a lot of the content that was created over the last few years, you know, because of I guess DEI. You know, people wanting more diverse characters and more diverse people in certain roles. Like

Yeah, yeah, no, I've seen a lot of garbage. Let me ask you a question. The Baltimore de I Bridge. We all know about it. If you saw it, you obviously saw it. They called the Baltimore mayor the dee I Mayor. This is obviously the new boogeyman, I mean, the new cultural boogeyman, like that's been vocalized the DEI. Do you think what do you think is the next boogeyman gonna be? We need to watch out for.

Well that right there.

If anybody uses a little bit of common sense, they'll realize how stupid that talking point is, because you know, what they're trying to essentially say is these people are in these positions, you know, just because they're black, are just because they're a woman, are just because they're gay, not because they earn them. Yo, people vote folks in right, nobody put the mayor of Baltimore in that position like

Crazy, barefoot in the office, you know. And the reason they did that because it was propaganda to show folks that this is why you can't allow black people to vote, this is why you can't have black people be elected officials. It was just to.

Scare America, scare America to keep black people away from politics in any way, shape, any position. To me, this is just an evolved version of that, because there's no If you're running around saying that an elected official is a dei elected official, you're just an idiot because you just don't understand how the voting process works. And I bet you if you took some of those numbers. I mean, Baltimore is a very black city. But if you took Baltimore and you looked at who voted for him, yeah,

That's people getting behind his ideals and feeling that that's the next This is where I want to take my country. This is who I want to This is where progress is going to be. This is like gonna like one hundred percent agree that's right. And so like another point, and not even just in politics, the DII is a DEI attacks on like medical institutions, feeling like a black doctors can't them undermining black doctors as if you don't go through med school. The answers are still the answers,

You're not skipping steps if you're a doctor, truly, you're not skipping steps if you're a pilot. Yeah, there's certain things in this world that you're not skipping steps on that literally. So whenever you label anybody DEI something and they're at those you know, where they're an elected official or doctor or pilot or an attorney, no, they did not skip step steps to get the where they are exactly.

We have to take a real quick break. We'll be right back. Welcome back. I'm here with Charlamagne and the God. What do you think is the things we can do?

I think the biggest issue that we have is we don't have no real leadership. We don't have any real movements because you know, when we're talking about DEI being something that Corporate America invented, yes it is. It's something that they invented the cover the ass to keep from being sued, to make it seem like they were doing something.

When we were in the meeting, you know, somebody said it.

Somebody was like, there's a difference between marketing and creating actual laws. There were actual laws that have been put on the books to help black people. Affirmative action, when done right, is something that actually can benefit of black people. So you just need real leadership and real movements to push for real legislation. Doctor Martin Luther King, ju you was pushing for real legislation during the Civil rights era.

We don't have any black leaders. We have no close is Charleston white Jesus.

Yeah, that's a problem. We don't have no black leaders.

They murder them they assassinated them, and now we're left on our own devices, and we're deft with media figures and we're left with corporations to like, we still got the black problem. Let's uh, we gotta let's let's figure that out with policies and uh in effective policy.

And some of the black leaders want to be the media figures because a lot of the black leaders think that, you know, in order to continue to galvanize people and grow their audience, they got to have a podcast or they got to have a YouTube show. And I mean they might be right to a certain extent, but I would rather them, you know, let's go back to the days of like I did my job and amplified what you were doing, like.

Which is which is what I want to do all the time.

I try to amplify those people who I know are on the front lines, like a Tamika Mallory, you know what I mean, you know, like what they're doing with untel freedom is fantastic, Like, so I like to amplify people who are doing that work.

What was the young lady you.

Had on your podcast to interview uh mayor Eric Adams? Yes, like she went she was That was a perfect example.

O A Jimmy or Lauren. She had a.

Fantastic that was incredible. That was an incredible just interview and watching it was great to watch, you know, power get pushback on with somebody who knew the facts, who knew the data, because it always feels like times you're people are allowing people say stuff and then they just walk away. So to hear her call them accountable in real time, that was.

And see the beautiful thing about that to exactly what we're talking about. She's a lawyer, she's an activist talking to an elected official. Like to me, that's a consequential conversation. Like I've been watching her for a while, like she's been on Breakfast Club before, but I watch her, you know, on social media and I watch her YouTube and she she challenges you know, Eric Adams, and she's critical of

And to your point, making it look like black bears are ineffective, and that's yeah, that's right.

So I just I just felt like that was a great conversation. So yes, to your point, to your question, we don't have enough real leadership, We don't have any real movements. And I think that all of us need to understand. We all got a position to play. So when those people that are leading and those people who are trying to create these real movements, when you see them, it's our job as media figures to amplify them. Because Malcolm X said, a p who controls the media controls

That absolutely, absolutely, I would say doctor Umar.

I like Umar too, even if you disagree with doctor Umar is doing, which I don't know how you could disagree with what he's doing, because he should We should be building our own institutions. But if you don't feel like he's doing it, right, offer him some assistance.

But that's the thing we want to talk about black leadership, and like it feels more entertainment than leadership. And I feel like if I give him money, is it gonna go anywhere? Or is this just going to fund the movement, his movement or a movement.

That's a great question, right, But I'll tell you this, you cannot help who has the star power relying if we say Martin Luther King Jr.

Didn't have star power, of course, the way.

He's spoke, it's the way he looked charisma, Malcolm X had star power, Like he just did the way he the way he's he orientated, the way he looks everything. So it's like when somebody has has that star power, you can't be upset about that. Like, you know, we should build coalitions around these people and let's all see if we can get behind this person to help them with their message, especially if we know the ultimate goal is deliberation.

Of our people. I truly feel like that.

When it comes to somebody like doctor Lumar, I feel like he really wants to liberate our people. You know, I really truly feel like that, and like people can disagree all they want. I see that brother putting in the work all the time. Doctor Ubar definitely should create DEI policies.

I would love to see a doctor Lamar based d absolutely.

And that's the other thing too though.

I Mean it's like, because all of this is based around the DEI you know, conversation, Yo, he is a leader in his space, just like you know I said earlier, Tamika Mallory is the leader in her space. There's a lot of different leaders in their space. If their ultimate

You know what I'm saying, All of that is better.

All of that's gonna be better than whatever dunkin Donuts and all these other corporate entities are coming up with.

Percent, hundred percent that is. That is facts. I'm still tripping over the Ice Spice.

I didn't know it was really brought up in a writer's room and and somebody googled it and it was like, oh, Ice Spice does have a Dunk Dunk commercial and it's because of ben Afflecks.

What's it called.

It's a diversity commercial, which is I think is that. I don't like that because you don't hire her. You don't hire Ice Spice as no diversity higher. You wish Ice Spice was doing your ship.

Yes, you were. She is choosing you to do your little dunkin Donut commerc that's.

She's perfect for a dunkin Donuts or Starbucks. Like her name is Ice Spice, she's perfect for dunkin Donuts.

That's not an equity high.

Ice latte, spiced ice pumpkin spice latte. Oh my god, there's so many Duncan donuts. Send me my bread. That's a diversity high. That's smart marketing. Yeah, how dare you? I'm gonna say my piece about the d I piece. I think it was one of the funnest things I've getting gotten right on in a long time.

It was dense. It was.

We got some really good jokes in there. I know y'all loved it. Is anything you want to say before you want to go, man, I.

Just enjoy it.

What I really love enjoying enjoying about doing the Daily Show is I do really like, you know, talking about politics. I really do talk like talking about you know, social issues, and you know, I have the Breakfast Club and I have the Brian Idia's podcast when Andrews shows, but it's just something about the Daily Show when you come in here with a real po V and you you come in here with some real thoughts. It's like America, here's it.

Because I watch all you.

I watched Breakast Club, I watched Brillion, It's I watch you on Daily Show. You have three different true modes. And when you're here, when you in your Daily Show bag, it's like it's like elevator. I mean, you do everything elevated, but truly I know what you're talking like you're.

It feels grown.

Yeah, it feels adult, like the are the these are the things that when I do Daily Show, when I'm at my daughter as cheerleading competition in Atlantic City or Wildwood somewhere, it's some fifty year old, sixty year old white person coming up to me talking to me. I

I think with the old debates, I think I love trust me, I love it.

You know, we talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but people want to exclude old people. I think that we need to look at the world we're in as everybody being a potential consumer. I think we need to throw demos out the window. Stop worrying about you know, oh, this is for this person, and this is for this age group and just for that age group. No, everybody is a potential consumer because I think this is the first time.

Ever where you have really no bridge when.

It comes to age, like everything is just all in one big melting pot.

That point is a great point to make, especially on a diversity and an inclusive podcast, equity inclusive podcast, because the original DEI programs You're, You're, who's the man you brought onto the phone call on the zoomug Melville Doug Melville that point he made about how the original DEI was just expanding your market to diverse audiences so you can make more money. That's all it was simply about. So yes, one hundred percent, ain't nothing wrong with ain't nothne wrong with nobody.

We want everybody to be here. That's an incredible point.

When people see Breakfast Club, you're gonna see Kodak Black and Nikki Haley and Bishop tdjit you know what I'm saying. We had Becky Lynch, wwe wrest Law and Judy bloom like you're not. I don't limit myself to anything because I'm a very curious person and I do have a lot of different interests, and I have a lot of different things that I'm into. My mom told me a long time ago read things that don't pertain to me. So therefore I put my nose in a little bit

Everybody.

I think that is an excellent, excellent, excellent point that we can wrap this podcast, sir.

Can I plug one thing absolutely? Of course. My new book comes out May twenty first.

It is called Get Honest or Die line Why small talk sucks, because I absolutely hate small talk. When I say small talk, I'm not even just talking about like when somebody sits down next to you and y'all forced to make conversation. I hate that too, But I'm talking about the fact that we discuss a lot of micro issues and we make a lot of micro issues macro, which is another reason I love doing the Daily Show because it feels every time I come to the Daily Show.

Like this is a show that is very.

Consequential, and the things you say on this show actually have consequences and they resonate with America. So I really appreciate doing it. But my new book, Get on Us or Die Line, Why Small Talk Sucks, will be available May twenty first, and you can preorder it now wherever you buy books.

Go get that, Go check that out.

Go check out this other book, Black Privilege, Charlotmagne To God, everybody. My name is Ashton Walmack and this has been The Daily Show ear's edition.

Thank y'll for listening. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime Fair amount plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast