Being a Black Journalist in America: Beyond the Scenes LIVE at SXSW | The Daily Show

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south By Southwest. Audience, how are you all doing? A big ye hawk to you if you don't know, we are the podcast that takes segments and topics that we've discussed on the Daily Show and we dig into those topics a little bit deeper, like this. This is what this podcast about. See, I like barbecues. We want to explain this podcast like barbecue. Okay, this this podcast is like that white piece of bread under the ribs that's soaked in the salt. You know, you you came for

the ribs. You know, that's Trevor or Travling or the ribs. But then after you have the ribs, you're like, you know what, that little piece of bread was pretty good too. That's some good ass bread. So that's what this podcast is. Uh. Today, we're going to be breaking down the topic of what it means to be black in media. Specifically, we're talking about journalists and we're also talking about correspondence and their role in the newsroom. The newsroom, we all know it's

a predominantly white place. And what is it like even pre George Floyd and post George Floyd and even pre Trump and post Trump in that era where people are already anti black, but to add anti media on top of that, some of the struggles that people deal with in that regard and also some of the solutions, and I'm very curious when I get to the panel on how they are able to release some of that stress. So without aside, it is my pleasure for us to

meet our panelists today. Our first guest is the moderator of Washington Week PBS. She is also the Washington correspondent for NBC News. Ladies and gentlemen, your miche Al Cinder. Happy to be here, excited to be here, Oh thank you, swinging microphone around, swinging microphone. Just look, there we go, There we go? Can you hear used? In a second? There this next brother on the panel. The people listening can't see this amazing leather jacket, but that is definitely

an amazing Texas jacket right there. They don't let you wear that on CBS News when you're anchoring. Uh, you know, I'm from CBS News and CBS Mornings, where he's also a correspondent ladies and gentlemen, Vladimir duty A, please give it up, hi, everybody. And our last panelist is someone that is now in the correspondent space, and she's been in there and in some capacities in the past for a lot of various positions, all across Washington, all over the Aisle. But now you will know her on May

seven with her new show on MSNBC and Peacock. It will debut in May. She is Simone D. Sanders' reading's happy to be here now, before we get into the conversation with the panel about what it means to be black in journalism, Like I said, Beyond the Scenes is a show that's derivative of topics that we have already breached on The Daily Show. So let's roll a quick clip of the last time I talked about what it means to be black in media. This clip is from

two thousand sixteen. When you're blacking on TV, people say, awesome stuff. Do you like this the post colonial victim? I don't get it. Sorry, yeah, no, you don't think Gary Busey and that ain't even the worst stuff. Say you're a cocaine dealer and you kind of look like one a little bit. He just said that out loud. Most people would have cussed that dude out. But if

you're a black journalist, you gotta keep your cool. Talk journalists constantly have to bite their tongue they come closer to the line, but God bless them, they never cross it because if they do, then they'll be labeled an angry black man. You can't be emotional about anything. Black journalists keeping it together. It's one of the few things

moving the conversation on rates forward. So I salute the brave men and women of cable news because best believe if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't be able to hold myself back. I'm just tired of the police getting the brunt of everything that's going on inside the Chicago New People. And so with that aside, let's go ahead and get into our conversation now and what it means to be black and journalism and media. Uh some morning.

I want to start with you because you know your Mesh and Vladimir, I know that you all deal with a lot of that stress, but it's often in a construct but you can't exactly custom people out the way you want to. But simone because We've seen you on the various news talk shows, Siman, and you're very You're very curse. Has there been a time, For the record,

I have never cursed. There has there has. Obviously there have been times where I would like to curse, but I have never cursed, because in the back of my head, I'm like, well, I want to come back to work the next day. I do remember very vividly there was a time where someone I used to be a commentator on CNN. I was political commentator. Um and I've worked in all various spaces in places in the news, but

at that time, I was a political commentator. After I worked for Senator Bernie Sanders is his press secretary when he ran for president. That's why I met you meet she was on the campaign trail and was on the Bernie beat. My phone it's filled with baby Simone pictures. I have a lot of pictures of Simone standing next to Bernie Sanders. Here we go, travel it all over the country together with this one, and I'm on this

panel of CNN. It was post Charlie Ittsville and we're talking about you know, in the Trump area, you talked about things like white supremacy, every day, and you know, racism, and you argued about whether it was real, which is kind of insane given what we have all witnessed and seen in our television. C C January six and post Charlottesville were having a conversation about the people who had gotten the permit to have the neo Nazi rally march,

because you gotta get a permit to do that. And the gentleman that I was on with former Attorney General of UM Virginia, King Kuccinelli, he told me that he told me to shut up. He said, Tom, you just shut up for a minute and let me talk. And I was like, And then Chris Cuomo was on in the morning at that time, and I remember Chris saying, oh, now, Ken, we don't talk to people like that. And I was like, he sure doesn't talk to me like that, No, he doesn't.

You can shut up like you're kind to excuse white supremacy on this program and I will not stand by and let it happen. And he's like, well, how do you get them to stop talking? I'm like, I'm right here. That was an excuse. Look at that, not even how they got the permit, And can I finish someone, well, you just shut up for a minute and let me shut up National television. Do you get to both of you stopped for a second, can hold on a second? You need a reset, You need a reset. It was crazy,

It was crazy. It was so crazy. So that was a moment where I am glad that no curse words came out of my mouth, because that is not okay from morning television's television period. But it was insane. What's the name of your book that you just wrote, No, you shut up speaking truth to power and we claiming America and took his line and flip them Livings and eliminade. Now you had have been, you know, covering Washington for quite a while, and you have had some things said

to you. You know, we can just start. Let's just start with Trump and in the thick of just asking very valid questions, very basic, rudimentary level reporter to leader of the free world questions, and you've been calling I want to get this right, and I'm quoting them. You've been called by the President then President racist, nasty, untruthful,

and you're also told to not be threatening. How do you keep your composure in those moments when you're having nasty interactions, not just with Trump, but with anyone within the administration that is trying to shoot you away or dismiss questions that represent the valid concerns of the public. How do you keep your composure, because that composure is an important ingredient in being able to do your every day Um there are a couple ways that I that I deal with that, and I think there are two

big ways. The first is that I want to keep my job. And I think that as a black woman, you get this muscle that you have learned to use over and over again because people say crazy things to you all your life. So but long before Trump called me nasty, someone told me I wasn't pretty enough to be on TV, and editor told me I wasn't smart enough to be in their news room. I didn't look

confident enough to be a reporter. Black people everywhere walking around do all sorts of things to make sure that they survive interactions with the police, that they survive interactions with their with their supervisors, and they survive interactions at the hospital. UM So, I think, honestly, when I think about sort of how I was able to keep my composure, it's that as a black woman. I had used that muscle so many times now. I will also say that my mother is a hot blooded Haitian lady, and she

was like, whose daughter are you? Like, I don't understand how Trump is screaming at you and you're coming back and be like, sir, do we have enough test for COVID or not? Um? But the second part of that question is that when I think about March, people were scared, and I could feel it in my bones that we were a country who needed answers. We needed to know if our grandmother got sick, was she gonna have a ventilator? I wanted to know if their states needed more mass,

were we actually able to provide them that. I was having family members call me up who were getting fired from dry cleaners, makeup artists, who didn't have jobs. Um, my mother who was working in the school systems. She

was retired now. But I was thinking about all of those people and thinking, they're watching TV and like, while it might be funny to see kind of this character of a president screaming at people, in reality people were like, okay, but are we like, apart from all this craziness, are you ready or not? And that was like a question that I kept on asking, and I wanted to keep asking because I think that we as a nation needed answers. So I think it's that double It's the it's the

double consciousness that the boys always talked about. It's one having sort of the real responsibility of a journal us in my mind, but also just being black and really realizing that I know how to survive crazy frankly crazy people screaming at me, and especially crazy powerful men screaming at me. I'm like, it's it's one of those things you just go, oh, yeah, that makes sense. You've been

a disrespectful for so long that that's just some new disrespect. Ladimir, When you got into journalism, were you are aware at the time, you know how much backlash there would be with where we are now in media and the role that your race plays into being able to either cover or not cover a story or dealing with the with the bullshit in the newsroom. Um. Yeah, because for me,

what you described is as a muscle. For me, I've always equated it to uh I absorbed body blows, and I've always likened myself to Muhammad Ali uh facing George Foreman, and Ali is getting those blows, he's getting punched, and everybody's saying he's gonna go down, He's gonna go down. But you know, Ali used to do that thing where he would just go not gonna get me, not gonna get me. He would shake his head right. And that has been my existence, Yemish, yours, your father's yours. That's

been our existence for since we first came here. And I think that the what you're seeing, what you heard from Yrmish and and Simone was high profile for four millions of people watching CNN right with CNN, yeah, um and for Yumish the president of the United States. But what that was indicative of is what happens in newsrooms and in boardrooms all across America every single day from

the day. I remember once I did a story UM in the wake of the terrorist attacks in France, and UM I had done a story, a series of stories on the surrounding neighborhoods in Paris where most of the young people UM were mostly from from Africa, from West Africa. And I came back and I was talking to somebody in the newsroom and he said to me, man, that

was really powerful reporting that you did. I gotta think, man, you know those people, the Muslims that live in some of those neighborhoods, they're like the n words of France.

And I was like, did he just write? And and he said it so casually, just came off his lips like you know, and I was like, well, no, not really, and all right, I gotta go, and you know, and I you know, my head as I walked away, I thought to myself, isn't that isn't that the time when you go to somebody and you go, what do you say to me? Like you step up to them and you say something. But I just remember thinking to myself, like this is so par for the course. I'm not

I'm kind of phased, but I'm not that phased. Or when another person I don't have any hair if you can't tell it right, and I tell my mom it's my choice. But but this one dude in the newsroom was like, hey, glad, what's up? And he like, must my hair? Like as like like patting me on the head. And I was like, I'm a fifty year old man, and you know, and this person just like man handled me in a way that I haven't been like man handled ever, not even by my father. They ever did that,

you know, and I didn't. I just remember just being kind of shocked that he did it, but also having sort of no recourse because that's just kind of the way it is, these little microaggressions that happen over time, and and I knew them because I came from a different industry. I spent twenty years in global finance before I became a reporter, and so I witnessed it there too, so it wasn't new for me. And as you said, as Simone indicated, you know, it's just one of those

things that you know, sort of grin embarrassed. I also think part of it is because my parents, like Emisha's, are immigrants, um, And if I came home from school one day and I said, you know, I could use the N word on me, my mom would say, so, like, just get good grades because he'll be a custodian and you'll be a doctor or you'll be a lawyer, you know, and like they they I think sometimes grants have these blinders on either side that say, yeah, it's it sucks

that you got called the N word, or it sucks that you're being bullied because you're dressing black all the time. But but the reality is, look what we came from to give you this life, and you can grin and bear it if we had to grin and bear what

we went through to get you here, beautiful. When did you all realize that you were black in media and not just in media, because, like, I know that we have this responsibility as black people to focus on issues that affect our people because we go back to those communities and we we got neighbors and home homeboys from high school and people you kick it with and they're going through real stuff? Is there? When did you first

have that realization? And also, like the bigger part of it, are y'all ever concerned about being labeled like only focusing on the black stuff? Why do you want pitching the black stuff? Like, are you ever afraid of that stigma of being the race reporter? I'm not And I say that because I think I want. I really love black people so and I was raised by Haitian immigrants who really taught me to love the history of black people.

Haiti being you know, the first country in the Western hemisphere where enslaved people wrestled their freedom from white masters kicked them out of the country. Even we've been having all sorts of issues after that. But the pride that you get from growing up Haitian, for me, UM has made it so that I'm unequivocally invested in telling stories about immigrants and black people while also making sure that I'm gonna have to tell stories about Ukraine and China

and all the other stuff. UM. I had some well meaning mentors, well meaning people, UM, black people who told me, you know, be very careful about telling too many stories about black people, because you'll be pigeonholed. Because they had their experiences. Sometimes they were the first black reporter at the New York Times or other places where they could

not do anything but tell stories about black people. I'm lucky that while I've had some interactions with editors who say, you know, you're you need to be really careful, I've had a lot of editors who say, no, we understand that you have an expertise and you should do that. UM. I think about Trayvon Martin. So I was in my twenties when Trayvon got killed. UM, and I was in a newsroom at the US at USA Today, and we were having this national conversation about whether or not Trayvon

was a troublemaker? Was he a bad kid? And I sort of was like, well, when I grew up in Miami, I went I grew up literally across the street from one of his high schools. My cousins went to school with him, And I was like, a seventeen year old who smokes weed, who has gold teeth, who likes m m A is every seventeen year old in Miami. There's nothing, nothing at all different about this kid than the person that you're standing that standing in your news room right now.

And I was very, very vocal about that, and I had editors, I would say, some of them white men who had my back, who said, no, she's smart and she's accurate, and she's gonna do this. So I think for me, Um, I've never really shot away from it.

And I think, you know, your last question or one of your questions about sort of when did you realize you were black and media, I'll say, I mean, I always knew I was black, and I always sort of knew that, right like I always feel like I knew going into the industry because I I got into into journalism because of the story of Emmett till So I mean not in that I knew exactly why I wanted to get into media was was tied to civil rights.

But when Ferguson happened and cities were on fire, and I was able to walk around and tell stories in a way that a lot of people couldn't because they didn't people didn't see them to have credibility in the community. Because people were talking about looters and I was getting walked to my car while people were trying to steal Gray Goose. They were like, hey, lady, you need to walk into my guests. Please walk me into my car.

Like like you quote unquote looter helped me out. Like I just was like, oh yeah, I'm being black comedians, this is all right. I can cover the protest. I will go to the right all by myself and be fine,

like simone. Like even with your MSNBC show, as you start to shape what the conversations are that you focus on week to week, does that sit in the back of your mind of where does race player role in the thing is that I'm passionate about or opinion to be damned about what you think about the types of stuff that I want to talk about. You know, when I. I I came to the world of media via politics, and I remember my first like big political job was

working for Senator Sanders. I had worked a number of campaigns before that, UM, but at nobody either had a concept that I had worked anywhere before that. They thought, okay, uh, Bernie Sanders and his black people, he's gonna hire this black lady. Hopefully she knows how to do her job. So when I left the campaign and then started to do all these other things, particularly and UM media, there were lots of people like me says that you know, people told her that she you basically didn't look like

a correspondent, You didn't look like a reporter. I had agents tell me that I wasn't really palatable enough for cable television. And this was after I had served as somebody's national spokesperson for a presidential campaign where I was on TV almost every day. I had people tell me that, um, I didn't sound like what people were used to hearing when they turned on the television. And what that meant is that I didn't sound like a old white man or old white lady, because those are the people on

TV at the time. Switch Yeah, yeah, that I was just like okay, and maybe maybe I was a little too bald, too black, or too big. I don't know. I don't know. I looked like it's for a while. So when I started doing uh, when I started being a commentator, and this plays into the things that I

think about now as I'm building my show. Um. I had somebody tell me once, a black man who has been in the TV space for a very long time, and he called me up when I first got a contract, and he said, you know, I want you to know something.

You are not light skin, skinning with long hair. And I said facts and he said, so because of that, there are just some things that you specifically cannot do and cannot say because whether you like it or not, people will hear it differently and take it differently coming from you, and people feel whenever I tell that story, people feel different ways about it. But the reality is that it is true. And so I don't approach I've never approached like TV and I'm not approached in my show,

like how can I speak for black people? Because I'm I'm black. Every day, you know, I wake up every morning. It's a black woman. One word. Um. People always say, you know, during the a couple of years ago, everybody we would get on TV and folks would say, why do you always have to talk about race? Why are you trying to make it about race? And the reality

is that it is always about race for me. Every time I leave the house, people are making judgments about me, what I think, what I can do, what I know, who I am, what I believe, how much money I have based on the fact that I'm a black woman one word. They don't they don't see that I'm They don't they don't even get the concept that I'm from Nebraska and grew up going to Catholin School my entire life. Somebody or I was like, what, Nebraska, Yes, there are

black people there. Okay, Malcolm X's from Nebraska, y'all. So as I'm putting together the kind of show that I want to do I want to do, I've been telling the folks at MSNBC, I'm excited to do the news and people are like, oh, okay. And so one of the exacts told me they said, you know, I did not think you were gonna come here saying you want to do the news, but we're gonna say you want

to tell people your story? And I was like, Okay, well, I want to do the news because yeah, I do the hand story, and I thought that was I think it's great that I'm surprising people because for so long, so many people that don't look like us sitting here get to have gotten to decide what the news is. The news is, yes, Ukraine, China, what the president said today, where the vice president traveled. The news is also what

is happening in media and politics. The news is also this thing that happened in north Omaha, Nebraska, predominantly African American part of the city. The news was happening in Chicago, and it's not just a shooting, Okay. The news is how Detroit is emerging as a new culture hub and uh, fashion houses are going there and they've got this great opera opening on Malcolm X. Okay, Malcolm X is becoming an opera. Like that is the news, and I get to decide what the news is because it's my show. Yeah.

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same point about assimilation. There's a book about ESPN and the oral history of the history of that network, and they talk about when Stewart Scott first came to that network and how a lot of people at that network didn't like the way Stewart Scott went about doing sports high lights. Broadcast. It's very you know, it's it to me.

Broadcast is the one medium of journalism that leaves the least amount of space for creative improvisation, and like it is the last like it's the last place where they go, all right, you can do something a little differently. Did you ever run into that pressure where you have a pressure by people to not be the style of journalists that you are now not really and and I will say, first of all, um, just to jump off your last question and wrap it up with this one. I went

to Africa. That's how much I realized that I was a black reporter. I raised my hand. Is anybody here Nigeria, American or from Nigeria? Yes? Okay, so i I I CNN sent me to West Africa to be to Nigeria, to Legos, Nigeria, to be there West Africa correspondent. And and first of all, kudos to them for for recognizing that it was important to have a black person telling stories on the continent um, which I think is important,

although there are obviously white Africans as well, um. And and for me, there was something beautiful about telling stories about humanity, the same stories that we tell here. Car crash, you know, a kidnapping, um, an agriculture minister that wants to you know, uh, you know, grow a certain crop in a country and make that a number one export. Like these are the things that in a normal world happen every single day, but in our country they are tinged with this um. You know, with the things that

we're talking about here, and it was so refreshing. Can I just tell you it was how refreshing it was just to be a reporter and never in fact, and this goes to your question. One of the things that I think has always been and I'm very aware of this, UM, and I've talked about this with other reporters, black reporters, reporters of color, is that even for me, I am sometimes some of the things that you Mesh and someone

are talking about don't affect me. Why because I'm a man number one and two because I'm also a light skinned black man, and that has you know, when you're from a multi ethnic background, you're in these two different worlds where you are something like sometimes the probably the reason that that one dude use the N word around me is because he was Somebody probably went to him afterwards or like did you say that? And for oh,

I didn't know that. I didn't realize. I didn't realize that, oh you know, and so and even then when he said that, I remember thinking to myself that that could be one of the reasons that that happened. UM. And so that is my privilege, that it's my lane of privilege that I have that these two young women don't have. And I recognize that as well. So to the question that you asked about, you know, having those sort of coats, which Stewart was a a trailblazer for everybody who's on television,

like point blank. But and and from that, I took that, look, this is who I am, you know. When I joined

CBS News. CBS News is the most traditional of the three UH legacy broadcasts UM networks, I think UM and certainly it is buttoned up, but I'm not that buttoned up when I'm in the field, when I'm reporting on terrorism, when I'm in When I was in Ferguson, that was my first big story for CNN for CBS, I thought it was weird to be in the streets, you know, interviewing people protesting every night and in a suit and tie. I was like, I don't that doesn't make any sense

to me. So I'm gonna address like I would when I'm doing any story that requires, you know, me to sort of be in the crowd, be with people, and to not stand apart from them. I don't want to stand upon. The reason I became a reporter is not to stand apart from people. I don't want to go into a situation, even a dangerous one with security. I want to be my authentic self and CBS News has

allowed me to do that. And so I think that Stewart and people that came before him did sort of open up that door a little bit to allow us to not be Like when I first got to you know, when I first started working in news, people would say to me when I got into the tracking booth, which is where you actually do your pieces and you're supposed to you know, they would say, Hey, did you listen to that reporter you know who's white, who's from you know,

West Texas? Can you sound like that guy? And I was like no, because, like, first of all, why would you want that? Why would you want me to sound like that person? Why wouldn't you want me to sound like me? And eventually, what you do realize, to be fair, is that in the news business, they're always nervous about anybody that's new when you come into this news business, and they do kind of want you to behave a

certain way that they know, quote unquote works. And I remember what black producer saying to me, dude, dude, don't worry about it. He's like, you know, you're gonna they're gonna go in there and they're gonna say, can you please sound like that person? Can you please sound like this person? Can you sound like And then six months into the job, they're gonna be like to the next guy that comes in, can you sound like glad? Because that's what we want And that ultimately is what happened.

But it wouldn't have happened without people like like Stewart. Okay, So to your point bleat about having a black producer and being a black reporter post George Floyd, right, we are, we are, We know what happened. Every corporation that we love black people and we promised to hire all of the blacks that have done everything black people coming for us, and we love you and we want you to know how much we love. Look, we put black lives matter, and I wonder if our building how much of that

you know, that's how they sell. How much of that corporate kumbaye ya that was happening in trickled down to the to your respective news rooms for real and for positive have there? Have you all seen changes in your newsrooms with regards to staffing and the types of stories that you're allowed to cover. I will say for CBS News, I'm very proud of CBS we have. Uh. First of all, are our our vice president News just became the first

black female network news president, Kim Godwin family. Every time I'm around FAMIU people, I feel like I should have gotten a Famiu Kim Godwin, who's now running a network. And of course Rashida Jones at MSNBC, but at CBS News specifically Terry Stewart, who's our executive vice president of News as a black woman. UH Ingrid Cyprian Matthews, who is in charge of all of news gathering for CBS News is Afro Latina. UM. The producer of my show The CBS Warnings, Sean Thomas is a black woman. UM.

And you've got Gayle King on our air. You've got Dareka Duncan, You've got Michelle Miller. Um, You've got me. You've got Jeff pa Gays in Washington, we Ja Jang covers the White House. I feel like we are one of the most incredibly diverse newsrooms in America. UM. And

can it be better? Of course, it can always be better, But there's a cognizant, there's a there's an understanding that people like us, like myself, like like Weigia, like Michelle, like Darika, like Gail, that that we matter and our perspective is integral to the jobs that we do as journalists for CBS News. So I'm very proud of that. I would echo. You know, I'm new to MSNBC. I just I became a member of the family in January, and that was through the leadership of Rashida Jones, MSNBC

network President. And Rashida came up through the ranks. You know, she knows how to produce a show, she knows how to line produce. She she's she's an executive now with the perspective of so many various folks in the newsroom, and an executive that knows that there are lots of people that watch our network and because there are a number of different MSNBC viewers, this is a place where you can go and get many things. She's investing in

and streaming and various voices. I mean, Aimon Moyodeine has a show. Whence the last time you heard somebody named Amon Moyodeine with a show on television? And on streaming Okay, she found and hired excellent great talent like myself, folks liking me sho okay coach amiss and brought the great Yamish over two jobs. Two jobs. She hosts the show and Washington correspondent Joy Reid is in prime time. There's a black woman who has a show in prime time

that people watch. Uh, Tiffany Cross has a show now on weekends like Jonathan ca Part hosts the show The Sunday Show on Sundays. Rashida Jones did that, and so I would just say that I think, um m s and i' let's not forget I mean on NBC News unless to hope that people are watching at night when they're watching their nightly news channels. So I agree with Flat it can always be better, but there have been intentional people have to be intentional about seeing and hearing

people both in front of and behind the camera. And I think that's why I'm so excited to be a part of MSNBC in the NBC Universal family because I feel and see that every day like there is their resources being put into talent to make sure the they are successful. Give me, does it feel like lip service at all, you know where you are on your side.

It seems like like speak to the importance I guess, of not just black people in front of the camera, but black people in the leadership and decision making positions that are able to put all of those names that she ever mentioned in places where they could flourish. I mean, I think it diversity has to be not just getting people on the entry level. It has to be promoting people, has to be paying people, right, um. And I think that we have seen those changes, and I think, honestly,

they started happening after President Obama was elected. After President O Mama was elected, almost every network said, wait, where's the black correspondent to cover the black president at the White House. I was not there, but I can talk to I talk to older black reporters, and a lot of people gotta come up off of Obama. So I think that if you really think about it, Um, that's that really started because people were like, oh, wait, how do we cover this guy when Barack Who's saying Obama?

Where are the black people? And that's just sort of what happened the meeting day. At the meeting to day were just like listen, we gotta get a black back, and you'll talk to the black and we'll get better questions. Yes, I think that's exactly what because I mean, you're making an important point. I used to work at the White House. I used to work for the Vice President. I was a spokesperson, and I can tell you that not only

at the White Hospital. On these campaigns post President Obama, it's like, oh, we need to do a meeting with the black press. We need to win. What are we doing on black press? And I it was it was so important to me that folks are not talking there. You're talking about reporters who are also black. Like when you're calling give me, you're not calling the black press,

you are calling a reporter who was also black. Yeah, And I will say I think the thing that makes me a little nervous is that we are living in a country where we had this inflection point after George Floyd and we had this quote unquote you were talking about sort of the crazy conversations that we were having during Trump. We had those crazy post racial society conversations where I was like, I'm sorry, I walked down this

serio and I'm still black. What post racial society could we ever even like, why is that even a phrase that was ever even invented? Um, So I think that I'm a little worried about whether or not we just have more inflection points. That's what America does. We freely, we flee enslaved people, and then we have reconstruction. In KKK, we George Floyd gets strangled and murdered, and we have a conversation about diversity, and then critical race theory happens

and we're banning books. I'm really kind of still watching sort of what America does. But America historically has always done this thing where we think we're interested in diversity, that when we really learned about what America was in sixty nineteen, we're like, we don't want to we don't don't want to watch that, We don't want to learn

about that and that stuff. You know. I think that. Um. What's also been interesting to me is we all talked about how our newsrooms are incredibly diverse now, but when I got into the new business, it's still And I spoke to my colleague Michelle Miller about this recently. Um, My earliest mentors were white, and that just sort of speaks to how the change has happened, you know, very rapidly in the last you know, five or six or seven years, um My mentor Anderson Cooper. Um. You know,

I don't. When I got into the news business, I didn't know any I'd watch people I knew I had watched that Bradley, I had watched Byron Pitts um and and people that I admired, Sharlene Hunter Galt um. But but I I didn't really know anybody, um like Anderson who was black. You know. And now, of course you know plenty of people that have picked up his mant only kind of reporting that he does um and and

I've run with it. But but but you know, he you know, for me to get my foot in the door, if I'd come across a Kim Godwin, then who knows, right, But but I didn't. I came up. But luckily I came across a guy who was like, hey, I think this kid has what it takes um and and helped me like launch my career. Um And I cannot imagine as somebody who admired I mean, I adored Ed Bradley.

I wanted to be Ed Bradley or Gordon Parks. No of my two guys when either make films like corn Park did or or be like Ed Bradley and and UM, I can't imagine what it was like for Ed to be uh in the newsroom. Um in the nineteen sixties and the nineteen seventies when he was the only one. I spoke to Connie Chung about what it was like to be the only Asian woman. Yeah, she you know, she had some Knnie has some great stories if you

ever want. You know, she's writing a book. But I spoke to her about what it was like, and she actually had insights because she knew Ed back in the day, back in the early nineteen seventies and the late nineteen sixties when when she was just you know, a young reporter. There's a very famous photo. It's of Connie Chung. She's only probably in her twenties and she's covering Watergate. My wife, who's Asian American, has this photo as like her background

her her wallpaper. It's this photo of all these white men in ties and cigars and cigarettes, and they're all on the phone and they're hustling nerve, they're reporting. It's during the Watergate hearings and right in the middle of the room is a young Connie Chung like looking up like like and you google his photo and see if you you want to know our mood sometimes if that is the mood right, because it's like you're surrounded by a lot of these people and you're the only one

sometimes and that's changing. But that's how you sometimes feel. And uh, that's why those those people that came, like your dad, Roy, I cannot imagine what it would have been like to try to be the only one and to try to raise your hand and say to a network president or to an executive producer, this is the story that I think we should cover and have them say it seems like kind of a black thing, like

an urban thing. I don't think so. My father used to tell me that's part of why he always wanted to be out in the field so he wouldn't have to put up with stuff in the new in the newsroom, he was like, you know, just send me to the civil rights rad I'd rather get just let me go. I'd rather take a billy clap to the head. My father was inbedded with black platoons and Vietnam um that we're dealing with. He says, send me to Vietnam on

the front line. I would cover that than be in this room with Well, I mean all we need to put that on a T shirt. I think I think the point that lad made is an important one, and that that it is not just on black people and people of color, that it's gonna take intersectional work like white people in newsrooms have to want to and do want to see the value and see the changing landscape

and be invested and be a part of that. You know, everybody that works on on my team as I'm building my show at MSNBC is not black, you know I have I've had white mentors that gave me opportunities and chances. Amy and tell Us at CNN is the person that how I first got a contract, and I probably wouldn't be on anybody's radar to have worked on more presidential campaigns,

let alone now have a show at MSNBC. If that white woman over there didn't think that, you know, maybe I was talented, But it was even Miley that also in MSNBC way back when who a black woman who invested? So I think we have to I think a lot of times folks get into these um oh, if it ain't all black everything. And yeah, you know, we love a little all black, we love all black, but the reality is the world that we live in is not

all black, and the problem is that all black. If you're gonna fix an issue, I think about what Tony Morrison said. Oh my god, I mean, I love Tony Morrison. I can't believe they're banning her books. I can't even talk about it because, um, I think about Tony Morrison and she she talks about the fact that if there, if if white people in particular, if they can only be tall, if you're kneeling, if someone else is kneeling, then the problem is you, not black people. And I

think that it has to be. It will never be people of color fixing the issues in America. It will always have to be an interracial solution because the problem is interracial. Um. And and that to me is what

makes me nervous. Frankly, I think I'm optimistic. Yes, it's great to see all these these voices and leadership, but I'm still thinking about the fact that we live in America, and America always has a way to reinvent racism, always has a way to figure out how to just change the rules on everybody, and I just I don't know how do y'all deal with the stress of all of this, Like it is a it is a quicker question for you. You mean you can tell the truth, it's just you

and me. Do you read I sometimes read them? I sometimes read them, um because Okay, so there are two things. I am a reporter who is constantly looking for stories, and I've found stories on Twitter before. I've also found people who have given me sort of feedback that I

found to be helpful. Um. I think that Twitter has increasingly, I think, over the pandemic, gotten to be, especially because most of my social media Twitter has gotten to me a more angry kind of just place where I feel like everybody has PTSD because we've been living through this pandemic that just threw our whole lives up and we're all walking around like we're okay because we zoomed our way through the problem. But everyone's kind of on edge

in reality. And I think that that Twitter has become a little bit more or less of a place that I want to to be um in terms of like checking my mentions, I do think if I'm honest, like black Twitter, to me, I look at black two and I think, Okay, I don't want to be eaten alive, so like I want to make sure that I'm trying to do something that is that it that feels credible. But it's also problematic because sometimes black Twitter can be

really really cruel. Sometimes you say something and people come at you and you're like, Okay, well that's not really what I what that was. That wasn't the intention of what I said. And I'm seeing other people sort of be really really mean to other people. Um in the spirit of of sort of the black Twitter crowd think,

and I think that that can be it can be scary. Um. Frankly, I would say that the way that I deal with stresses that I don't get too high off the love that I get from people, um, and I don't get too low off the hate that I get from people. I don't try to let it impact what I think too much because for me, I really am trying to deal with the people who I know love me. So for me, what covid did was really helped me understand who I want around me and understand who I trust

and who was who feels safe. And my husband stuck in d C so he couldn't come today, sadly, um for all sorts of reasons that I won't get into. But my husband, um, you know, he to me finding love was was incredible. Um. And having someone too, frankly, be able to vent, to to be able to be loved on, to be able to to to talk about your day. He's a journalist too, covering Loudon County, which of course now is like a crazy county, but that's a county where critical race the area, and they're doing

all sorts of stuff with transgender rights. And I think that to be able to have someone who really kind of understands storytelling and understands the stresses of journalism has just been sort of incredible to me. And then I think I have a lot of friends, and a lot of friends of different races, but black women in particular, they show up for me in ways that I just to the stay I think, really give me goose bumps.

And I think, you know, we're talking about black media, but I have friends that are Wall Street bankers, who are nurses, who are makeup artists, and we all have the same sort of lived experiences, which is that what we think is an issue in media and black people.

It's really an issue in America, the microaggressions, the people not you're being uncomfortable because you don't look the way that that traditionally people looked, whether you were working at a bank or whether you're in media, that the thing

that you know. I think it can be really easy to feel personalized where you're supervised to tell you something that's wild, and then you talk to your friend who works on Wall Street and you're like, oh, you've been passed over for promotion three times and now you're now you're training people who don't know more than you. Oh okay, Well, this isn't just media. This isn't just sort of one way.

It's it's how the country works. And that to me is it's it's why maybe I'm the pessimistic kind of sound in one up here, but I think that's what makes me nervous. That's what makes me nervous. I think she's realistic. You're realistic, You're pragmatic. Black people are nothing of pragmatic. Okay. It is understanding the reality of what it is, but still having the ability to hope for

what can be. The Vice President talks about to the ability to see what can be and broad and by what has been that is that is the essence of this right here. So then what's your stress relief? Like what do you do after a long day of just dealing with race and all of this craziness and getting talked too crazy and then you gotta go cover crazy?

Because the thing with the Daily show that's frustrating, and I talked to the other correspondence about it, is that to find the joke, you must consume ten to fifteen terrible stories. You have to read all of them. Do you read the national paper, you read two local papers, and you find all of the stuff that's divisive that everybody is arguing about, and somewhere there is one little negget of a joke that you you dust it all and you email it up to Trevoring to produce it.

They go, that's funny, but doing a different direction today, like so flat someone, what do you all do to deal with that stress? Like how do you I mean, I called to the nail shop that people know I love my nails. Honey, I go to the nail shop. I'll take two three hours. My fiance will tell you just won't find me on a random Wednesday, don't let it be Sunday afternoon. And then I agree with you me like I'm getting married this um summer, very excited. Yes, yes, yes,

he is fine. And the I think the pandemic thing that I think the pandemic was the best thing to happen to us, because it was just a crazy time for me professionally, for both of us actually, and we could unwind, like when I felt like the people were not being fair to me and my and and whether at work on the internet, like he, I could talk to him about it and he would call balls and strikes.

He could say, if it's left up, it's fft up, or you know what, you actually meet thicker skinning, we're gonna we could cry in the closet and then let's go. So that is what it's been helpful for me, I think for me. You know, you you said something interesting two things, roy Um. One you talked about the death of nuance, and that's where I feel we have, where we've come in the last four or five years, that there's very little nuance in our interactions with each other.

And that is what I love most about my job, about my life, about the people that I interact with on a regular basis. And the point that you made about searching for that one little funny nugget that is, you know how you're going to build out a joke. That's what I do with people. I know that there are people that you know that I I am not unaware that there are terrible people out there. But one of the reasons I became a journalist, one of the reasons I gave up a career to start at the

very bottom as an intern um. When I was, you know, almost forty years old. I will know was very successful stre man. Okay, you know, I wasn't like a hedge fund guy, but I was doing okay for myself. But you know the reason is I I really, really really get off on talking to people of all stripes of you know, all traditions and backgrounds, and that brings me immense joy. I love interacting with people. I love hearing their stories. I love sharing my stories. I love finding

that commonality. That is what drives my journalism and and and what Twitter does is it removes all of that so that you know, you say one like I told you on that call that I you know I want you guys will laugh at this I um was once you know, you know on TV, as you guys know, sometimes they're like we gotta go, we gotta go. The producers will get in your ear. We're going to commercial.

It's a hard wall. So I was doing a story and I was talking really really quickly, and I said, you know, and then this happened to Tupac Shaker, all right, gotta go all of a sudden, right that dude right here. I was like, what, that's exactly what happened. All of a sudden, Yeah, exactly. Twitter got all like crazy, like

my mentions blew up. This dude, like who the hell like talking Tupac shakor Lad, like even like my own colleagues in the newsroom came up to my office, Lad, and I was like, guys, I know it was a mistake. It was like a twist of the tongue. And people were like, oh, mass if I I somehow you provoking your black card? Glad, you can't be like I was like, I'm sorry, Like can we just like can we not even flub our words without the entire world coming down

on you? Because if you sit down and talk to me, you know that I know who tupac Is and I got him on rotation on my Spotify, but like everybody thought like, oh yeah, of course because he grew up in a white school, like you know, like and it was like, it's so I I get off on that. That's what relieves my stress. This podcast is supported by f X. IS Atlanta returns March FX stream on Hulu Europe.

HiT's Different Atlanta Season three takes Paperboy, Earn Van, and Darius across the pond and they diving deep with new success, new connections, and new weird effects. Is Atlanta premiers March on f X stream on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by HP. When you're working apart from your team,

feeling connected can be a challenge. Presenting HP Presence, a more thoughtful human collaboration technology with enhanced audio and video features, you can experience more genuine collaboration and feel more connected. Be in the room from any room with HP Presence. Learn more at HP dot com forward slash Presence. We're gonna go now to some questions here for myself by audience. Before we wrap up here, here's one. This is from

an anonymous person. Um is there an example of a story you pitched that you were passionate about that got shut down. I'm very passionate about, UM the plight of sexual and domestic violence against women of color in this country and UH and you know, UM, when I was first starting out that we were coming across we were coming up to the anniversary of the Central Park Jager that the night that she was brutally assaulted in Central Park.

UM And I was still in journalism school. I was still in grad school, and I wanted to do this story. And I thought, if I could do a really really good pitch in j school, I can maybe pitch at the CNN and maybe they would do it as a dot com story. Because what I decided to do is, rather than look back at Trisia Miiley, the Solomon Brothers banker who was who is sexually assaulted, I went and found what other women in New York City that very

week also got sexually assaulted brutally like Trisiha Miiley. And I found that there were five women who had UH suffered. One woman was thrown off the roof of a building UM in New York City. She survived miraculously. Um And and I went and looked for those press clippings. There was not one mentioned on television, of course, and in the only in the New York Times was there in the Metro section where there are a couple of brief

like you know, they have those like metro updates. This is what happened in this part, in this part of the city. And so I went back and I interviewed people who remembered those incidents, you know, um, in the community, and we went back and we told that story, and then we we took it from Trician Miley, and then we we said, okay, these five women, and then we started a whole sort of running commentary on the number of missing black women that have you know, gone missing

over the last couple of years. And no one knows that that was the name of the piece. No one knows their name, right, nobody knew the names of these women except the loved ones who are still mourning them. And um, and I did the piece, and I was very proud of it. And I you know, I showed it to some people, you know, uh and and you know, in the newsroom outside of school, and they were like, this is a great journalism school piece. This is a great journalism school piece. You know, and I get it.

I absolutely get it. I mean it's like, first of all, newsrooms will tell you we don't like to do memorial pieces. That's absolutely true, So there is some um validity to what they were saying. But but the fact that we are still at a point where we are often not telling the stories of these victims in the same way that we tell the stories of other victims is something that you know, I think is difficult to to. It's it's a hurdle, it's a challenge. They shut you down.

I know, they shut you down. Tell me by the time they shut you down. You asked the question, and I was like, I'm sure I have a running list of quick of stories that have been shut down. I mean, so many stories have been shut down, especially because I remember when I was first starting out, I wouldn't even put that I spoke Haitian creole on my resume because I didn't think anyone cared. Every job that I've been to, I've always pitched stories about Haiti, and I've luckily been

able to always get a couple of stories in. But it's always been oh there's an earthquake, let's do Haiti now, or oh, my God, the president was assassinated. Now we really care. Oh my god, those black immigrants they're getting whipped on the border, and now we're going to go. And I think that I've always, um just tried to

keep an eye on Haiti in general. But can I just say and thing about that when I first met Anderson Um it was uh I sat in his office November of two thousand and nine, and we were talking about Haiti because he has he is, long before the earthquake, been a champion for Haiti. And I said to him, Yeah, I'd like to pitch some stories on Haiti. He's like, dude, I try all the time, and I even I can't get them on the air. Right. And this was like

two months before the earthquake. So so I bring that up because we sat back, we like both of us like sort of leaned back in our chairs, and we're like, yeah, man, like, nobody ever wants to do a story on Haiti unless something really horrible happens. And then two months later the earthquake happens. Sorry sorry to touch off but that, but even Anderson Cooper Is could be sitting here and being like,

I can't get Haiti stories on the Air. I would say, Haiti stories are definitely um top of mind to me. When I think about that, I also think stories about sort of um emerging, emerging political stories surrounding black people. So I remember this story that I wanted to do in two and I was working with another black reporter, UM and I don't think I'm portraying anything here, which is that we were doing a story about black people not being that excited about Hillry Clinton for a number

of reasons, um. And that story basically never got written, and I was kind of like, hey, we should really write this story, like we have black donors, there's an issue here, and it just like never got written. And I think that lazy and someone else wrote the story, like girl, like don't even get me sorry about But after after Hillary laws, like, oh my god, how did we not know this? Guys like yall that black people

had some issues with Hilary. Hey, by the way, some of them were Haitian in Miami, which is a state she needed to win, and Haitians in Miami. We're looking at her like what did you do with the with the aid organization? Your brother's making millions of dollars, getting diamonds and Haiti, what are you talking about? So they were just they were like, you know what, I'm so

better about that. I'm just gonna stop to that point that that ties perfectly into another question from another anonymous and simone, I want you to start with this one

because you've worked with politicians of differing races. Anonymous person asks, what do you think of the way the media covers politicians is they're a double standard and how they cover black politicians there is a double standard, And how they cover the first woman, the first woman of color, the first black woman of South Asian descent, who is the Vice President of the United States of America. That's for

damn sure, Okay. I spent I spent the last year of my life blocking and tackling verbally on the phone with people every single day. I used to joke with folks that I had the worst job in the White House because because and I said I had the worst job, I actually I had the best job in the White House. But I would joke with the reporters that had the worst job because I can't just I couldn't just pitch a story. I gotta explain to you why what I

am pitching is true. I can't just say, you know what the vice president of the governing partner to the president. People are like, okay, but how tell me how, like what does she actually do every day? Were you asking what Mike Pens did every day? That's my question to you. You know, I will never I will never forget that. Um. So we went to Guatemala. When I worked for the vice president, she did a trip to Guatemala, Mexico. And while she was in Guatemala, she did an interview with

Lester Holt. And everyone has seen this interview with Lester Holton, but I actually know everyone has seen the clip from the interview with Lester Hoult. People probably didn't see the actual interview, but there's a moment in the interview where um Lester is asking the vice president multiple times what

does she have plans to go to the border? And he asked about seven or eight times, and the eight times she says, well, I haven't been to Europe there, so can you have any plans to visit the border? I'm hearing Guatemala today. At some point, you know we are going to the border. We've been to the border. So this whole, this whole, this whole thing about the border. We've been to the border, we've into the boarding. You haven't been to the border, and I haven't been to Europe,

and I don't know. I don't understand the point that you're making. That is the clip that I you know, when I wake up the next morning, it's the clips everywhere. Wasn't a great clip. We come back from the trip and a week later, reporters on my phone and uh, it's one reporter from Alan that I will not name, is like, well, we're doing a story about the fallout from the terrible trip. And I said, oh, you mean the fallout from the moment in the moment in the interview,

because we just have to put it in context. It was a moment in the interview. It wasn't a bad trip like there was a was a diplomatic success. So I'm putting my spin on it because it was a diplomatical success. And this reporter says, he says, you know, so she's gonna get media training now, and I was like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

whoa whoa. I said, I worked for President Joe Biden for two years on the campaign trip, Okay, I answered question after question after question about gaffs and and Joe Biden and his gaffs, and I pushed back on him, and not one one point that any of these reporters asked me was the Joe Biden Canada, Joe Biden gonna

give media training. Why are you asking me? Is this black woman who was a twice lesson district attorney, twice elected attorney general of the largest partment of justice only second to the Department of Justice of the United States of America, a former United States Senator, and the Vice President United As America give media training? Do you think that's an appropriate question to be asking me? He was like, well, I mean I thought it was until we did. It's crazy.

It's crazy to me. It is crazy. And I fundamentally believe that women, women period, but also women of color specifically, are covered differently because people are not used to seeing women of color, especially black women, in leadership positions. It is just something fundamentally like it's like their mind gotta do a shift. It's just like, but what is really happening in there? And it's like it is last day.

It is like, I'm not lying. I mean, you just saw that a couple of less than a week ten days ago, people what was bubbling under the surface the first black woman to be nominated to Supreme Court of the United States. People were asking, have you seen her law school entrance exams? I need to see her middle school trans to be clear. People were also asking, what

was Kamala Harris eligible to be vice president? There was a little burger at the bubble to the service, and we just kind of slapped it down real hard, but it was it was bubbling. It was like, we can have legitimate questions about all sorts of things, but that was a question that was being asked the Vice President of the United States. Was she born in this Yeah,

she's from Oakland? What Okay? So let's end on the last question from the audience that I think we'll leave us on some optimism because I do believe the cheering is the future. Teach them will and let them lead the way, show them all the beauty. It's in the Bible. It's third carent uh. All right, tell me y'all know that ain't in the bibble the Heathens? Is that in the Bible? Somebody just Dominique asked, what I think is a very very solid question for us to end on.

And that's what advice do you have for up and coming black and other BIPOP creators starting out or transitioning into journalism, Because I'm sure there's rules in journalism that you learned twenty whatever years ago, ten fifteen years ago that don't apply now. So how has the job changed and what advice would you give to these people entering

the field that honestly is ever evolving? The rules are ever There isn't much that I learned at FAMI, you and O one that really applies today other than the basics of just getting the information. But what advice would yall have to newvies? I would say, first, I think the basic advice from family and O one is still the advice get the stories right, do good journalism. That I mean, that's the basics. You have to know the basics.

I think mentorship is key, and I think mentorship is not just trying to get ahold of Ed Gordon or Anderson Cooper, get ahold of the local journalist in your area, to talk to the person two years older than you who graduated from your college and now is an intern or a or an entry level reporter. Some of my best mentors are people who know what the industry is looking for right now. So I think we talked about mentorship,

but it doesn't have to be Oprah. It could be anybody UM that there for if you are listening, I would love for you to the meeting. Put that out there and let Jesus take care of But I will say that I would say. The third thing is the best advice that I got from one of my mentors, the great Gwen Eiffel, who was so real, who was the black woman who made history on Washington Week UM by becoming the first black woman to host her own nationally televised UM news program in Washington Week. She told

me to be myself. And I walked up to her one day and I was very nervous, And I should tell you I met her through the hairdresser because we're black women and what what what where else would you mean? Right? UM? But I want up to her one day and I was nervous and I couldn't remember. She knew who I was, and I said, Hi, my name's yeah, mich but you can call me Miche because I knew my name was

always sort of this name that people got wrong. And she said, no, don't let people nickname you, and it it's stuck with me to my core because what she was saying is go where you're going, but don't be able to recognize yourself when you get there. Don't just don't just sell everything about you. And then you look up and it's like, yeah, I'm an anchor and I got my own show. But actually I look more like Lauren London than you meet, even though you know we

don't look alike. But I don't want to say she's a beautiful woman. But what I don't want is to look anything but like what I am. I'm not gonna straighten my hair. I'm not gonna make become racially ambiguous to kind of let people sort of make me into something that I'm not. I want to be exactly who I am, um, And that that's being intentional. And I was listening to a podcast with Lauren London, which is why she's on my mind, because she was just talking

about the fact that life will chin check you. Life will do all sorts of stuff to you, um, but you have to in some ways. And she said this and it was so powerful and I love Lauren London. She talked about being a spirit of celebration and meaning that when you see people getting stuff being a spirit of celebration for them, you will see a snapshot of someone's life and you think, why don't I have my own show, or why don't I have Why am I not a correspondent? It's like what will be yours will

be yours? And be very intentional about what you're going after. But don't lose yourself. Don't lose yourself, and and and and be backwards and trying to figure out all these different things. Like I said, people told me I was too pretty, I was probably too big and too black for some people to put me on. And I was like, okay, I mean to me what I mean. One of my best mentors is my mother, who is like, wait, no, you look like me, so don't change anything because I

like seeing myself on TV. So I think for me, it's it's that. It's really so. I think if you have those things, which is the basics first, and then mentorship and not losing yourself, then you'll be on your way. My my message is a little darker. Actually, even though you said you want supposed to be cheering, my message is for people who want to be journalists specifically, UM, and and specifically I guess this is maybe even maybe

geared to broadcast journalism. UM. Don't do this job because you want to be on television, or you want to have a brand, or you want to elevate your profile. This job no matter what beat you cover, whether it's entertainment or it's Washington, or you cover wars, it is incredibly There are journalists being killed all over the world. Two who do this job. I take it very, very seriously. I know that generally on on the feature pieces that I do, I'm fun and I'm bubbly, and you know,

and I do love love everybody. That's true. But you know, I've seen some stuff, UM in my years as a reporter UM around the world, UH, that I'll never forget. I was in Sierra Leone and UM I was getting ready to interview the president there and his press sector. He said, you know, your reporters, even the typewriter. We don't have typewriters anymore, but he said, you're typewriter is your A K forty seven. And it's stuck with me because that is how the people with power see what

we do. I don't care if you are covering the red carpet at the Academy Awards, or you're sitting and staying and taking direct questions or a line of fire from the President of the United States. This is a

job that carries with it an enormous responsibility. And if you can see yourself fitting in that and and and holding up that mantle and doing all the things that you said, the truth and the accuracy UM, that's important, but also just taking it seriously for what it is, which is a job that you must be prepared to lose your life for in the pursuit of truth and in the pursuit of the story that you're trying to tell,

especially if you're holding people uh in power accountable. That is what we do at all levels, whether you're a producer, your production assistant, you're an anchor, correspondent, Roy, what you guys do on the Daily Show, Simone, what you're about to do at MSNBC, that is what we do and

I I do personally. I I want people to understand that because what's happened now because of the rise of social media and the ubiquity of of information UM and different platforms where people can elevate their brand, you start to see a little bit of that creeping where people are more focused on how they look and how they sound and how they dress and the stuff that they wear.

And that's cool. I'm fine with that, but but to never let it diminish what we do, because it's the only job that specifically was put into the Constitution of the United States of America, and they did that for a purpose. So I'm gonna build off of what Lad said because I think it is really important. As someone who is making the full time transition, I often I think about being sure that I am authentic and I

tell the truth and that you do the work. And so I go to teleprompter prep, you know, past my office the other day and I was like, girl, I'm practicing on the computer. I'm gonna be in the studio next week. Um so that when on May seven, when you turn on MSNBC at four pm, you're gonna say, damn,

that girl knows how to read that teleproblem. She really understood the back of that story, or wow, she really through the commercial so effortlessly, or oh she really thought about this segment Like I'm going to do the work and there are there's always gonna be someone a mentor told me this one. There's always gonna be somebody better than use, somebody smarter than you, somebody fasting you, somebody pretty and you, who went to a better school, who

has more money. But you control if someone is able to outwork you, and there's one thing about me, You're not gonna outwork me. I get up early and I will stay up late. I will do the research myself. I will download the own packet. I will go out and call and pick up the phone and ask the questions because I want to know. And I think that

people that want to be in the media space. I used to hate when I would do college campuses and young people will come up to me and they say, I want to be a commentator like you, And I was like, oh, nobody, I'm I have an expertise. I'm a I'm a I I have a political expertise. That's why they pay me on television. They were paying me to commentate because I know what I'm talking about. I've

worked fifteen campaigns. If I work my first presidential or races all across the country, from governor's races to uh things on reservations to mayoral races to state legislative races, and I've worked three to presidential campaigns and got the current president United States selected. Okay, we're for the first black woman to sit the most powerful black woman, I would argue in the world. So I have an expertise. So people who are like I want to be on TV,

what is your expertise? Honey, you need to get expertise and then someone will pay you for your expertise to talk about it. But some of y'all don't got no expertise. I'm just being Some of y'all don't got an expertise, So then you hopping on. Everybody got a podcast, now, Roy, they like this podcast. You know, everybody their podcasting out their garages with their homeboys and homegirls, and y'all don't got no expertise. You better get an expertise. You better

do the work. Why do I want to hear from you? The thing about my show is I want to only talk to the people that know. It's a lot of people on TV that do not know. Can I just say real quick for it that you know, there's nobody Simone, there's nobody like ymiche right, and and you hear oftentimes people say, well, I want to be a little bit like Oprah with a little bit of lester Hole thrown

in there, and funny like Trevor. And I always say, like, I think that when I was younger, I've probably thought that way too, because you look at people that you admire and you say, well, I want to I'm a little like that. But I'm also a little like that. But as I've gotten older, don't. I don't think that way. You just be who you are. That is what will attract people who maybe ten years ago what I said, I don't know about you, simone, but now let's look

at them as they are. That's right. You don't you want to say you want me if you have expertise because of me, not because I remind you. I don't want somebody to look at me and say, oh, you kind of remind me of lester Hole door, you know. No, I don't want you to look at me and say he could be a younger version of Lester or the right lesser and I practically a stage um. You know,

I don't want that. I want you to say, you know, Vlad is I when I watch Lad and when I hear is warning, when I see his reporting it's uniquely his and that's what I think is important. I would add one thing. I think people need to take care of themselves. Um, you know I said, I don't take it lightly that I think a lot of people really are walking around with PTSC. I think that we are a country that lost more than eight hundred thousand, nearing

nine thousand people. People died of COVID, but people died of heart attacks, people killed themselves. We all watched George Floyd get strung, get strangled to death over and over again if you watch the trial. I'm an emotional person, I think, and for me, I take things into my heart. I really when I'm telling stories or when I'm looking at people, I really I think maybe it's a blessing or curse. I take a little bit of that, that empathy, that that feeling with me, and that's that is a

tough place to be, especially right now. It's a heavy, heavy, heavy time, Which is why I think, like Lauren London was on my heart because you know, you think about what she lost a nipsey, and you think about sort of what we're all we've all lost in connection, in in in in in grief. I mean, I think take care of yourself, get counseling if it's counseling, get spots, get your nails done, do whatever, Like yeah, you do

the work, but don't. But also there's nat ministry. I love this, and there's a thing called Nap Ministry where literally the revolution is take a nap. And I was like, oh, you know what with that, because I think black people have, like we talked about being black and media black people were denied rest, So give yourself some rest um between gigs. I took two months off. I never take that much time off, and I was like, now I'm taking two months off, like I need I need the time, and

I needed the time. And to me, I think I'm not shy about the fact that I think we should all be taking care of ourselves because you can grind, and you can grind and you'll get to where you're going, But you don't want to have a heart attack or kill yourself because you haven't really been able to take care of yourself or take care of the people that

you love. You don't want to look up. And then your mother passed away because you were but you didn't even realize that she was sick because you were running after internships. So I think when I counsel my mentees, I used to say, oh, move whereever, do whatever. Yeah,

you should say all that stuff. But also I told them, if you have a job and you really love your mom and the New York Times is offering you a job and your mom's hometown, don't feel bad taking that job and not taking go not running off to Ukraine and being on the biggest story right now. It's okay. If you want to love your mom and work, it's it's okay. So I would say that that's definitely something that I that I that I definitely took away, and that I that I learned the hard way in these

last two years. Let mean, don't be coming up to Yeah, you see her out at dinner for her husband, you just say hey, you walk over, you ask for yourself, and you keep it moving. Don't ask her about that story she did yesterday or well you know what the president is talking about. Get that lady her rest, let her eat her dinner. Don't come up to me at the nail shop. This's is good a place to end as any Thank you so much to this wonderful, wonderful panel.

Give me shall sender Vladimer Do t A Simone D. Sanders, and thank you to you, the wonderful, wonderful audience of south By Southwest here in Austin, Texas. I'm Roy Wood Jr. And hopefully I've taken you beyond the scenes. All right, Yeah, good times. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is supported by f X.

IS Atlanta returns March FX stream on Hulu. Europe. HiT's Different Atlanta Season three takes paper Boy, Earn Van, and Darius across the pond and they diving deep with new success, new connections, and new weird ffect Is Atlanta premiers March on f X stream on Hulu. I am Eva Longoria and I am so excited to share my new podcast with you. It's called Connections with Me, Eva Longoria. The goal of this show is to learn, get inspired, and

get connected. How should we connect with our partners, our kids, money, politics, food, jobs, news, spirituality, sex? How can we connect better with ourselves? Listen to Connections with Eva Longoria starting March thirty first on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,