Banned Book Authors - Amanda Gorman, Jerry Craft, and Ibram X.Kendi

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Yea, Amanda Gorman, Welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited.

I'm the one who should be excited, because, I mean, twenty twenty one kicked off with a bang. It's been a whirlwind for everybody, but I think for you, more than most people, it has been extra whirlwind d which is a word I trademarked you can use one day

My world has been crazy. I mean, it's been turned upside down. I mean when I was writing the poem, I knew it was an historic moment. I knew it was an important moment, which is why I wanted to d just service. But I wasn't really paying attention to the ways in which my own personal life might change, so I went, I did my Nago poem, I walked off and just kind of expected everything to be the same.

The poem The Hill We Climb, wasn't just momentous because of the day it was performed on. I think what made it special was that you incorporated, up until that day the things that so many people were feeling about America. If you don't mind walk me through why you felt it was important to write a poem for that moment and then even still be writing the poem on the actual day that you were delivering.

It right exactly.

Well for me, I mean I was writing it and trying to find a way to encapsulate what had gone on over the past you know, four years, and even looking more expansively than that, and then you know, we had the insurrection at the Capitol. So for me it was time to say, we've had this reminder of the ways in which democracies both fragile and also enduring, and

Pretty high ask of myself.

But you know, that's what idea when I showed up and I rolled up my sleeves, and that was the aim of the poem, to use words to try to go back to the quintessence of what America can be.

I think you achieved that. I think you achieved that a thousand times over, and it showed in how people responded. I mean, consider it from this perspective, and you may not, but this is how I sold it. I went on a day when Joe Biden's inaugurated, Kamala Harris is stepping into the role as VP, Lady Gaga's performing, Jennifer Lopez is performing. You were the thing that people were looking you were. You were the trending thing. I mean it was like you competing with like Bernie Sanders's me was

That is so surreal, especially because my friends they're so funny and you know, they come for blood. So they were texting me like, well, Joe Biden did a good job opening up.

For Amanda Gorman, you know who won that inauguration.

And I'm like, oh, it's not a competition, you know, it's not a fighter who were into the inauguration.

They're like, but you did. And so I think for me, it.

Was so daunting to be on a stage. You know, there's Michelle Obama to my ride, and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and what happened to the figures that have been you know, mythologized for me, and to find myself not only being in that space but owning it and claiming it was I think the highlight of my career.

I believe that you are slated to perform at the Super Bowl.

Correct, Yes, I didn't you.

Understand you understand the juxtaposition of this right now, right poetry at the Super Bowl, you understand the levels you've made it to where they were like, this person is so good that we have to bring her to do poetry at the super Bowl.

Right.

Literally, that went over my head because I knew about the super Bowl and the Inauguration around the same time, and it was like there was not space in my head for both. Like I kept being like, I got to write that inauguration poem, and my team was like, there's this little thing called the super Bowl, which you should also keep in mind.

And so, you know, it's very.

Rare, and I want to say, you know, if not you know an extent possibility that a poet will be at something like the super Bowl, It's just nothing I have really heard about before. And so the moments I strive for in my lifetime, which is to bring poetry into the spaces that we least expected, so that we can fully kind of grapple with the ways in which it can heal and kind of resurrect us.

Let's talk a little bit about poetry. I mean, it feels like poetry like some art has its highs and then it has moments where it disappears. Why do you think we should never forget poetry? What is it about poetry that you feel society needs to hold onto.

Well, what I always say is poetry stands as a great reminder of the past that we stand on in the future that we stand for. I do not think it is any you know, coincidence that when America seeks to kind of consecrate its ideals, it does so through poetry. I don't think it's incidence that we see a poem at the base of the statue of liberty as opposed to like a scientific formula or even a prosaic paragraph.

You know, why is it that.

We call forth poetry in those moments or even point out to students, you know, when you're out of Black Lives Matter march and you see you know, banners that say they buried us, but they didn't know we received. That's poetry at the first racial justice movement. And so poetry because it's inherently rebellious and its nature, I think it really becomes the language and the rhetoric of the people. We get to kind of co opt it and play

You have a journey ahead of you that I think nobody can predict, which is exciting. And you've had a journey that has been unpredictable. You know, you've talked about it, you know, growing up in a family with a single mom who was raising yourself and your twin sister and your brother as well, and how you just forought to achieve. My question to you then, is what are you aspiring to seeing that you've basically done it all, I mean in the past few weeks, right.

That's a great question.

I mean I'm really taking that time to kind of sit back and think and be like, well, wow, that was it. Kind of what's the next? And for me, I don't think it's about kind of beating my last thing or even competing against myself.

I hear that a lot of thing. That's fine for other people.

I'm not necessarily fighting against myself or competing or contestating against anything I've done. But I want to keep on the trajectory that I've started for myself, I never want to kind of dally our diverge from that. And for me, that just means using my poetry to touch and heal and impact as many people as possible and that can be at the inauguration, the super Bowl, it can be in a living room. It's often in classrooms with other students.

But you know, I'm just chugging forward.

Well, I know everyone's going to be reading the books. Thank you so much, Amana Goman, and congratulations from all your success.

Thank you so much.

My guest tonight was a New York Times bestselling author and illustrators. His new book is called School Trip. Please welcome Jerry Kraft Brother Crap Brother Crab, Yes, sir, first off, shots out to the tie. I see what you're doing with the tie. I got got the little catch some of them black peanut kid.

Here.

What did you read growing up? I'm always interested about that with authors, like what got you into the habit of reading? Like, because I was assigned a lot of books in school that I feel like I shouldn't have been reading. It was like bey Wolf, call it a wack Thomson. Just white people.

Running and you didn't see yourself in that, You know.

I didn't know.

I did not see myself in those books.

Now, I went from Doctor Seus's to Marvel comics to nothing. I hated to read. Reading was a punishment for me. And it's the same thing. I didn't see myself. What am I going to read Tom Sawyer huck Finn like? That wasn't me? I mean?

But Tom Soyer had the N word in it.

So representation, right, So we got some representation. It wasn't great representation, but we got representation.

So then if Marvel comics and comic books activated your curiosity for literacy, what is it about graphic novels that we can do to help that with today's children.

The first thing I think we have to explain to some people is the term graphic novel does not mean a novel with graphic content, and that you think that's not real, But there are people that think that. So they're like, I don't want my kid to read the graphic novel. It's a novel with graphic content, and they're like, no, that's not what it is. So we might have to change it into just a big, old com like book that might make it a little better.

I think with some of the education rates in this country, that's probably a good idea. Brother. Now, this book that you have, school trips, a wonderful, wonderful book is about you know, black child out there doing this thing. It's been banned in a bunch of places. First off, congratulations on being banned. Thank you, congratulations.

I know that must feel awful.

I know that it is a terrible feeling to write a book and then somebody go, oh, your book is too good, we can't let nobody read it. What was your thoughts and feelings when you first found out about that.

I was disappointed. I was sad for the kids because so this book, this is my first book, new Kid. It's the first graphic novel, only graphic novel ever to win a Newbery Metal. It was the second book to win the Newbery and the credit Scott King, right, and the only book ever to win those two in the Kirkus Prize.

Right.

So not the only black book, the only book, not the only black book.

So then how do we get to that place? How do we go from a book the same character in both books.

This is the third.

Book with this character. So the first book Award Award Award this book, people go crt right, how is that classification even fair? With the literature that you've been creating?

Fair? You are funny?

Fair?

I mean, like that's that's the point of it.

You know.

It's like from a kid who hated to read and was told that comics would write his brain to grow up. You know, born in Harlem, grew up in Wathston Heights, and to have this book, which should be an after school special. My life should be the after school special a reluctant reader who grows up to I mean, there's a movie in the works with this book.

Okay, but do you do.

You have a producing partner. I know how to read. I like reading, get money. We'll talk about that etis.

But it's like thirteen different languages, so they can read it in Albanian, Romanian, Greek, they just can't read it in Texas.

Cool.

Now, the book is about. This book's school trip is about you know, some kids who decide to travel over to France and they take a school trip. Now, as a product of Birmingham Public Schools, I cannot relate to traveling out of the country at any point, Like there was no international field trips, like in Alabama, you go to three places, you go to civil rights, they take you down to Montgomery to see where they don't pass laws that help civil rights right, and then they let

As a child, it was all local stuff that my dad and I used to go when I graduated from college, which I know you're trying to ban, but for those of you you know it, you know it was good.

It was going to get one free coupon.

It was good for me.

So when I graduated from college, my dad took me to Bahamas and it was seventy years old, his first time on the plane, right, because we didn't think that we could travel right. And then we went every year to a different place for twenty years. When my son's graduated from college, I took them to Paris, because again, you don't think that you can do those things right. And so I make the books that I wish that

How do we get people also to understand because to me, the issue with CRT as well, I think it's been twisted into this idea that these are black authors writing about black stuff, specifically for black people. How do we get people to also understand that these books are for everyone to read. It's not about some sort of colored only section on a bookshelf. These books are about the human experience. So how will we be able to get more people to understand that.

There's a kid I just saw this on TikTok. So it's a ninth grader. Right, a nine year old third grader in Escambia County, Florida, goes up in front of a school board. Right, he should be home playing Xbox right in from a school board. Talking about this book, he says, this book was a good reminder that we are all equal and we should treat people with kindness and respect because you never know what someone is going through.

Thank you for everything that you do for a craft. Will appreciate your brother.

My next two guests, they have collaborated on a new book for young readers called how to Be a Young Anti Racist? Won't you please welcome Doctor Ibraham X Kenny and Nick Stone than So how to be a Young Anti Racist? That means you're already banned in Florida. So it's funny when we talk about race because we live in a country that the Congress intended voted for Juneteenthville, but this where the same nations don't want to talk about slavery. They'll have Martin Luther King and Robert E.

That means they're not racist.

So how can we start a conversation about being anti race when you're not quite sure how to quantify racism? We are, but I don't think a lot.

Of people are.

And I think that's that's the very point, because if you're not doing anything to challenge all of the injustice and all of the inequity in our society, then what happens It persists, Sure, so therefore you're reinforcing it. So therefore you're being racist. And so we're encouraging people to actively try to dismantle us the structure, including young people.

But what is their incentive? Like, what would they be nick? What is there if this is the working for you or not? It doesn't cause you anywhere because you can sleep at night, Why would you want to change the system? It doesn't. It seems to be going just as you intended.

But is it actually working for you?

Well?

Right, it seems like yes. I think for me, it's all about children, right, Like, even though this is a system that might seem like it's working for you, the world is actively changing if your children are not prepared to live in a world and move through a world that have people that are different from them in positions of power. They're gonna be in trouble, yeah.

But then they try to remake the world. You see that. Literally, we're a nation that is run by the Flintstones and the Jetsuits, and the stones are winning.

You have to understand that.

I don't believe a lot of people, For instance, I don't believe white people a lot of white people are actively racist. But I do believe that the notions of white supremacists. They don't agree with their methods, but they agree with their goal, which is the key people in charge. And so if that is the premise, then what incentive, seriously would there be to make these changes that only destabilize what you know works for you.

I think one of the things we've been showing in studying racism is that it's actually harming white people too. It's not harming them at the level it's harming people of color, but there are actually white people who are dying of police violence. They're not dying at the level of black and brown people, but more white people are dying of police violence in this country than other countries.

But I think a lot of white people don't get this.

When you pour you a nigga, you are, you are.

Hure, you are, you.

Are like that.

I don't think people understand. And generally what hurts me hurts you. What is good for me is good for you, And I think that. But there is that thing and where you know people will give their last nime to keep things a certain way as long as it hurts you, Like look at what happened with the Obamacare Act. A lot of those people in those poor states are being hurt by that, but they.

Don't care as long as you are.

Yeah.

But the sense of optimism is in what you said earlier, children, because in children you have not mine's there the whole different thing. But but in our children we can see the potential of things that we hope to never that we hope we can realize probably never will. So that is an angle I think that it's probably subsidient.

Yeah, I think when it comes to children, I have two of my own, and it's important for me that they enter a world that they feel empowered to change, which is why we wrote this book. Right, So doctor Kenny wrote his memoir years ago and I latched onto it slid into his deals. I could do a young reader's version because it's important that young people have the tools. I get so many kids who are asking, well, what do I do? How do I help? What do I change?

It give me an example of what racism actually is.

So racism is a system of ideas. So you have racist ideas and they are basically they're made to keep inequities going. Right, So the whole purpose of a book like How to Be a Young Anti Racist is to give young people terms that we can all agree on. That way we know what we're standing against, what like racism? Having a term at definition for racism helps them see, Okay, this is what we're trying to fight because one.

Of the things that happens is people who have historically been racist refuse to define that term, of course, because it luges them to exonerate themselves consistently and constantly, and even young people therefore don't know what it is, so they can't even assess themselves and guide themselves.

How would they know. We have a lot of people who are raised by people who moved out of places that black people were moving into, right that that was a predicate that we're gonna move out of places that black people are moving into. But those are the people who have the conversation with the people who are now having the conversation with the people. So if they don't think the thing that they did was racist, that's that's a level of obliviousness that you can't you can't quite quantify it is.

And indeed, are you know the heartbeat of being racist is denial. Yeah, This denial is consistent and constant and insidious.

You know, it does give me hope when I see people like your book beat my book in the New York Times bestsellersness.

So I'm just going.

And it's interesting because that came along at the time and you had written it a good while back, but it resurfaced when the George Floyd protest was coming on. They really seemed a moment and this I seen these inflection points when we can generally well, people are really open to listen. But the problem is it's so fast. You can only get attentions so fast, and then we're on to the next thing. And I think that's that's not even a purposeful I think it's just the function

Right, Yeah, And I mean, look, the book is really all about first turning inward. I think part of the issue is that we don't do a good job of humanizing ourselves. We don't give ourselves the space to be angry. We don't give ourselves the space to be sad. We don't give ourselves the space to have unpopular opinions, right, like we do, we're all usual. But even that you know the fact that you're like, I'm angry, and I don't you know, I don't know how I feel about

Together, sharing each other.

Yeah.

The thing that's so frustrating for me is our stories tend to start in the middle. Like we were something before this, and our stories seemed to start in the middle. So and it's just like, even what's going on in Florida, you don't even want us to learn our history, Like there was a time when the slave people couldn't learn and now it's illegal for us to learn about enslaved people.

Yeah, so it just.

On. And you would have heard that had you not beat me on the New York Times best seller list. And I think that we have a lot to learn about how things work and to really half constructive conversations because it's so much more fulfilling to me to shout at somebody, but it doesn't really accomplish anything. And I'm really very proud that you write books like this. And I think the younger you start, I mean, you gotta not be an anti racist baby. You have the babies too.

Look, you learn it somewhere. You either learn to love people or you learn.

To hate them, right, Like, I don't want chocolate milk. I want.

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