Already and this this is the Daily Off.
This is the Daily OS.
Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It is Sunday, the twenty fourth of November.
I'm Billy, I'm Sam.
Happy Sunday, Billy, Happy Sunday. We're not usually in your ears on a Sunday, so it's a bit of a treat to be here today. We are bringing you a bonus episode. We are intercepting your podcast feeds midweekend to answer all the questions you have about vaping. So you might have seen on our Instagram stories last week that we asked you what do you not know about vaping that you would like us to explain. It was no surprise to us that we got hundreds and hundreds of
messages from you. There was so much that you wanted us to explain to you, and so today we are going to answer as much as we can.
I'm really excited for this chat. I feel like it's one of those really practical, relevant conversations. Just a note before we get into it. This episode is sponsored by the Australian Department of Health and Age Care, but they've had no editorial influence over the content. We're sharing in today's episode. So, Billy, I think before we get into the specific questions, let's go right back to basics. Can you explain to me what a vape actually is.
Yeah, we're going right right back to the very basics. But I do think this is important because a vape is something that we see all the time, but we probably have never actually looked into what exactly it is. So a vape is a battery operated device that can look like a cigarette, a cigar or also you know, other common items like highlighters or even a USB. And often the illegal vapes people get on the black market
are quite colorful. That can kind of be one of the defining features of many illegal vapes, and that's because they're designed to appeal to the youth market, which is part of the whole problem that these products are so explicitly designed for the youth. And the mist of vapor that is emitted from vapes is made by heating up liquid chemicals, which is what you breathe in when you are vaping.
And that's where nicotine enters the conversation.
Yes, and so one of the key substances in most fates is nicotine, which is also in cigarettes and is an extremely addictive substance. Sam, do you know why nicotine is so addictive?
It taps into the cravings part of your brain.
Right, Yeah, But do you know the science behind it?
Absolutely not.
You've never looked into it. That's so surprising. I know.
I'm a top line guy, So when I.
Was researching for this podcast, I found it really interesting the science behind why nicotine is so addictive. And so it's because it causes the brain to release dopamine, which are probably heard of as a fappy Yeah, it's the
feel good chemical. But the effect of nicotine wears off super super quickly, which is then what causes this vicious cycle where the brain tricks you into thinking you need to vape to feel satisfied or to get that dopamine hit again, and that is how it becomes so addictive.
Wow, it's easy to understand then, how quickly that cycle can evolve.
Yeah, because you get that hit and then it wears off really quickly, and then you do it again to feel the exact same thing.
And then if you have an addictive personality that can also kind of highlight or accentuate how quickly that happens.
And another thing to note about a lot of vapes is that a lot of research has shown that most vps that say they don't contain nicotine actually do. And that is another part of why so many vapes are dangerous, because you don't know what is actually inside of them, even if you think that you do. Another thing that I found super interesting when researching for this is that vapes can actually have more nicotine in them than cigarettes. So sometimes they have up to five times more nicotine
than a cigarette. I had no idea about that.
And think about that as an image, Think about five cigarettes in your mouth. It's quite a start kind of physical representation of how much nicotine is in a vape.
Yeah, and we'll get more into this, but just at a very high level at the top. There is a lot of research that tells us how harmful vaping is. It can cause breathing issues, lung damage, and we also know that nicotine dependents can also have an impact on mental health.
So, Billy, I feel like we've had this vaping conversation now for not a long time, maybe a couple of years. Where are we at with vapes in Australia? How popular are they and how long have you been tracking this story.
For vapes are so pervasive today, but I think it's easy to forget how you know, only a short time ago, they weren't everywhere. I remember when I first came to The Daily, I was about three and a half years ago. I think it was in my first month that I pitched you Sam a story about vapes and you had never heard of them.
Yeah, I remember that, Billy, and I remember thinking at the time that I had kind of seen these things around, I hadn't even had conversations about what they were. We put up the story. You did a fantastic job on that piece, and it was one of our most viewed pieces of that year.
And every time we do a story on va now, it just there's so much engagement. There are so many young people really wanting to understand more about what it is they are inhaling. Your question, though, was about popularity. So let's go through some quick stats. So in twenty sixteen, eight years ago, it is estimated that about one hundred thousand people were using e cigarettes daily. In twenty twenty three, that jumped to about seven hundred thousand people who are using them daily.
So you have a seven times in Greece in seven years.
Yes, and again that is using them daily. That's not people who are just using them socially on the weekend. That is seven hundred thousand people who use them every single day. We also know that this rise can mostly be attributed to the uptake of vaping by young people. So nearly one in ten people aged eighteen to twenty four are vaping daily in Australia currently currently, and those numbers are all according to the National Drug Strategy Household Survey which came out in twenty twenty three.
I'm keen to get some questions from the audience and put them to you. The first question that caught my eye was a question about the long term effects of vaping. As we've just discussed this is an early ish phenomenon. What do we know about the longer term effects of daily vaping.
So let's go through some of the known effects first and then we can discuss long term. So we know that vaping can lead to things like lung inflammation, coughing and also breathing issues, and people can also experience persistent coughing, chest pain and also palpitations and respiratory problems. It can also result in permanent lung damage and also nicotine poisoning.
And that's the term I've heard more and more recently. Can you explain to me a bit more about nicotine poisoning what that is?
Yeah, So this happens if you have too much nicotine in your body from inhalation or the liquid nicotine in a vape is actually swallowed. And you'll know if you have nicotine poisoning because of symptoms like nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headaches, or even feeling really confuse. And it can also make you really weak and tired, and we know it is becoming more common because of vaping.
And so those are all symptoms and experiences that nicotine poisoning, for example, that you could have on a day where you're actually vaping.
Yeah, those are a short term right, So what.
Do we know about the longer term effects?
I want to start with brains, the effect that vaping can have on our brains. So studies suggest that being exposed to nicotine can be harmful for young brains in particular, which we know is still developing until you're late twenties. So Sam, your brain hasn't stopped developing yet.
Thank god, because this is all I'm left with. Then we've got a problem.
So there are several ways research says that vaping can impact the brain, things like your mood, impulse control, and also learning. And there's also a lot of research that tells us that nicotine dependence can have a negative impact on mental health. I feel like anecdotally, you know, you can see in people around you who might vape, that you can really see when vaping has that kind of mental health impact. But just to confirm, like, there is research there that confirms.
That even if it's the agitation or trying to figure out how to kind of leave a situation in order to go and have a vape, it's all of those things that can contribute to that state of anxiety.
Yeah, and interesting you bring up the word anxiety, because the World Health Organization does say that vaping has been directly linked to anxiety disorders, right, although one thing to note is that research is limited in assessing of vaping behaviors or mental health symptoms come first, So kind of like a question about the chicken.
Or the egg there, and do we have any information about whether people are moving from cigarettes to vaping or from vaping the cigarettes or you know in terms of that causation point, is one coming before the other.
Yes, so we know that young people who use e cigarettes are more likely to start smoking cigarettes than non vapors, and I think that's something that is important to bring up in the conversation about the long term health effects of vaping, because we know that if you are then moving on to cigarettes, there is again a lot of research about the long term effects of cigarettes that you know, I don't think that we need to get into.
Because that's pretty well established.
Yeah, exactly.
And I've actually heard a couple of people just anecdotically actually take up cigarettes to get off vapes, and it's that kind of situation that can be really concerning.
And so dangerous.
But then let's keep going with this long term effects discussion. We've talked about the brain. Are there still some things though, that we don't know about the long term effects of vaping?
Yes, there is still stuff that we don't know. Essentially, like we said before, vaping hasn't been around long enough, or at least as popular as it is now for long enough for there to be enough research about those longer term effects. So we don't know yet how vaping excessively or vaping even just occasionally in your twenties will impact you in your sixties, because the people in their sixties today weren't vaping when they we're in their twenties.
To all of these yeah, all of this research is going to come out. It's just going to take forty years for us all to grow up.
Yeah, and that's why there is this concern about whether we are just repeating the mistakes that were made with the generation that grew up with smoking. One thing that I also just want to mention that I haven't yet is that we do know that the risk of harm by being exposed to these chemicals is increased by frequent vaping over a period of time. So we know that the more that you vape, the more harmful.
It will be. And Billy, when you were explaining that before my ears pricked up with the C word cancer that you mentioned in there, we actually also had a question from the audience about if there's a link between vaping and lung cancer, what can you tell me about that particular relationship.
So more research again is needed in this area. But in March, new research was published in Cancer Research that revealed people who vape for a year or more and who have also never smoked before have similar changes in their cells to smokes who go on to develop lung cancer. And it was that research that actually resulted in one six hundred respiratory health professionals publishing a media release earlier this year which talked about the possibility that e cigarette
use could also lead to lung cancer. So there are a lot of professionals and experts in this area who are really concerned about the link between vaping and lung cancer. And they also expressed, like I said before, concern that we are making the same mistakes we made with cigarettes.
And as what often happens with these trends that emerge relatively fast in society and have adverse health effects, be that physical or mental, the law takes a little while to respond and to kind of keep up with developments. I want to talk about the law, and I want to talk about what the government is doing about the rise in vapes. What's the latest in terms of the regulations, and where do you think it's going to go next.
Yeah, this is a great question that we got a lot from the audience because it has been changing incrementally over the past few years. So it's understandable why there is a lot of confusion about what exactly the law is. So I'll tell you the latest. In July, Australia became the first country in the world to ban the sale of all vapes outside of pharmacies, and that law meant that the only legal way to access a vape was
from a pharmacy if you had a prescription. So there's been this real push from the government to stop people from accessing vapes altogether unless you're wanting to access a vape because you're trying to quit smoking or to manage nicotine dependence.
And then there was this new law in October, right.
Yes, So in October a new law again came into effect that allows adults to buy vapes from a pharmacy without a prescription where state and territory laws allow. Did you know that was the thing.
Sud No, that's really interesting. So you can still go to a pharmacy without the prescription and get a vape that.
Way, yes, and that is specifically for people who are trying to access a vape to quit smoking or to manage their nicotine dependence. But to answer your question, yes, if you fall into one of those two buckets. You can go to a pharmacy to access a vape without a prescription.
And so presumably that would lead to a conversation with a pharmacist. That has to happen before you can actually buy the vape.
Yes, so you have to have a conversation with a pharmacist, you're right. And also it's only available for people who are aged eighteen and over, so it's only available for adults. For people who are under eighteen, they do need a prescription.
And I imagine the vapes that you can get from the pharmacy are not the bright, colorful, flavored, no kind of ones that you used to get from convenience stores.
Yeah, so the vapes you can get at a pharmacy are obviously not the same as the ones that are being sold illegally. They don't come in bright packaging or in those fruity flavors. They do have nicotine in them, but only below a certain concentration level. You can buy vapes from a far pharmacy with a higher concentration level of nicotine, but you do need a prescription for that.
So, just to be clear and kind of wrap all of that into a very tidy, little bow. It means you can buy vapes with nicotine if you don't have a prescription to help you quit smoking of vaping by going to a pharmacy if you're over eighteen.
Got it a plus student, right, So.
There's a couple of terms and cognitions there. Yes, and there's quite a lot of pieces to that puzzle. Do we know if people have actually been using that option?
We actually do. We only just found out. So in a recent Senate estimates it was revealed that three thy five hundred people had accessed a vape from a pharmacy in the month of October. So that's not including vapes that were obtained from a pharmacist with a prescription. That is three thy five hundred people who accessed a vape without a prescription from a pharmacy.
So that's a good number, that three and a half thousand, but it's obviously not as much as the total number of people in Australia who vape. I think we can all agree on that, yees.
So we know that there is an estam mated one million people around the country who vape.
So you know, we can be adults here and have a conversation about the fact that there are still vapes available illegally from convenience stores. How are they still so available?
I mean, it's like many other illegal substances that people are still managing to access them because there are businesses that are selling them illegally. And also the reforms have only come into effect very recently, so there still needs to be some time for it to really take effect. But important to say that any business like vape shops or you mentioned convenience stores, sam, if they are selling vapes, they are doing that illegally and that is something that
the government is trying to crack down on. We know that at the start of the year a different piece of legislation came into effect which banned the importation of disposable vapes. That was really big when it came into effect.
And that was trying to kind of limit the supply of those vapes that are being sold illegally.
Exactly, and since then, nearly six million vapes have been seized by authorities in Australia. And that legislation that was introduced at the start of the year, it also increased the penalties for businesses that are caught illegally selling vapes, which is why if you are buying vapes from a convenience store, which again is illegal, you have probably seen the price of them go up.
It's really interesting how there's kind of different strategies to try and counter this now black market of disposable vapes from a supply point of view, from a selling point of view. So, Billy, I'm somebody who has had asthma for a very long time. I'm famous in the office for carrying around my PAFFA. I don't vape because it would have a negative impact on me pretty clearly straight away.
But I do know that I'm around people who vape, and I'm wondering about the effects of secondhand vape vapor.
Yeah, so interesting. I don't know about people with asthma specifically, but I do know that the World Health Organization says that particularly in indoor settings, it can result in potential risks to non vapors who are around vapors. But I can say on the back of the who there is research to say that it could impact you, particularly in indoor settings.
Okay, so we've talked through the short term effects of vaping, the long term effects of vaping, how the law is working, and the fact that you can still get some vapes for the purpose of trying to quit smoking from pharmacies. I want to bring all of this together and leave everybody with a conversation about what to do if you want to quit vaping. Talk me through some of the recommendations about how you should go about doing that.
Yeah, And people have different reasons for why they would want to quit vaping. Some people are concerned about the health effects. Some will quit vaping to feel better for their body and mind to feel better. Some of those might relate to listeners, or some of them they might have a completely other reason for why they would want to quit. If you are listening to this and you want to quit but don't know how, there are a few different places that you can go to to get support.
So you can go to the my quit Buddy app which helps you to track your progress and stay motivated. There are so many apps out there that really help you track a whole range.
Of habit falling.
Yeah, yeahteresting, And I found it interesting when I was researching for this that you could also find one to help you quit vaping. You can also call Quitline on one three seven eight four eight, where you can confidentially speak to a counselor, and another option is also to speak to a GP or health professional about the best way to quit for you.
I've seen from quite a few people who've kind of documented their quitting journeys online that it's not a process that's without challenge. You know, there are challenges to this.
Yeah, it's never linear. I think quitting anything is always a bit of a challenge. We know that a lot of people who have tried to quit vaping have experienced challenges like cravings, mood swings. Some people experience reastlessness, but that is all normal to experience when trying to quit, and it's just about how to manage them using the support services.
That I just mentioned, and we're going to put those support services in today's show notes. Billy, thank you for that conversation, and thanks to all the readers as well and followers of TDA who reached out with questions, the hundreds of questions. I think it's really important for us in the news to be having these conversations about these issues that feel very live. They feel like they're kind of evolving in real time, whether it's from a health
or a law perspective. So thanks for taking us through what is a very complicated area.
Thank you so much.
That's all we've got time for on this special Sunday edition of The Daily Ours. We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow morning with a deep dive. Until then, I'll have those links in the show notes and have a great Sunday. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Chalcotin woman from Gadighl Country.
The Daily Os acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gatighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.