Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.
Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, the twelfth of September.
I'm Elliott Lourie.
I'm Lucy Tarsel.
Starting this month, Australia's music charts will focus on albums and songs released in the last two years, transitioning away from older releases that had long been taking up space. It's the biggest change to the ARIA chart since the introduction of streaming figures over a decade ago. When this new system came into effect. Last week, a viral hit from Ossie artist Kelly Holiday jumped to the top spot
on the Australian Singles Chart. On Today's podcast, I chat to Holiday, whose real name is Adam Hyde, about how it feels to go to number one with an independent release and what these chart changes mean for the future of the Australian music industry. But before we get into it, here's a quick message from responses.
Elliott, You've got a really fun chat with Adam Hyde for us today. But before we get into it, I think a question a lot of people will be asking is why should we care about the music charts?
That is a really good question to start with. I think personally, I've always been really chart obsessed as a fan of popular music. It's interesting to see how people are listening and what's being reflected in sort of the cultural zeitgeist on the charts. So I think a good place to start is how the charts are kind of a reflection of the culture at any given point in time. They also give validation to the artist that their work
is being received well. Now, of course, there are plenty of artists that haven't seen their work reflected on the charts, but you know, it's more often than not that when a musician is being introduced, it's always as you know, so and so has five number one albums or ten top thirty hits. It kind of becomes the accolades that
define their career and their legacy going on. Now, on the other side of things, chart success can also provide massive opportunities for small artists and those that are starting out. So music labels use charts as kind of a gauge to determine which acts they're going to invest more money and time into, meaning bigger budgets for future projects and also things like festival bookings, can come out of chart success as well.
Now on those charts, you mentioned that Australia's charts, the ARIA charts have undergone some big changes this month. Can you walk me through what those are?
Yeah?
So, the last time that arias made a massive change to the way the charts are calculated was back in the twenty tens when they introduced streaming figures from platforms like Spotify. This obviously was something that needed to happen, it's where people were consuming music. But an unintended byproduct of that change was that several of the main charts
then became clogged up by older hits. So think of things like albums that were constantly going back to as an Australian audience, and those sort of classic songs that will never go away. They're constantly being streamed and they're constantly turning up on the charts. Now, at the end of last month, there was only two songs inside the top ten of the Australian singles that were actually released this decade. Decade, this decade, so in the twenty twenties.
Yeah so, in response, ARIA has now taken almost all songs that were released more than two years ago and rehome them on a different chart. They're called the onra Play Charts. What that means is we now have space on those main charts for new releases. And the idea behind the move was to kind of better reflect contemporary listening habits. Yeah, Ari CEO Annabel Heard told us that the changes give a much clearer and more nuanced picture of how Australians are listening.
So we've got Adam Hyde on the pod today to talk us through all of those changes from an artist's perspective. For those listening who might not know much about him, what should they know going into your interview with him?
So if you haven't heard the name Adam Hyde, you might also know him as one half of the band Peaking Duck. They've had a lot of chart success over the years, so he's experienced talking about this topic. More recently, he's actually taken on a solo venture under the name Kelly Holiday. If you don't know either of those names, Peaking Duck or Kelly Holiday, you maybe know him as the partner of podcast hosts and media personality Abbi Chatfield.
He is now mister Abby Chatfield. So Abby is an important part of this story because Adam actually wrote the song that has gone to number one as a love letter to her, and it kind of then grew and took on a life of its own, which is why we're talking about it today. Throughout the interview you'll also hear him refer to his girlfriend, that is who is talking about in this context. Just a warning that Adam does tend to swear a bit. You may hear some
curse words throughout the interview. It's nothing too crazy, but if you have kids in the car, this is maybe one that you want to come back to later. So without further Ado, let's get into it. Adam, welcome to the Daily OZZ.
Thank you, thank you for having me. It's a beautiful, beautiful guff you got me in here.
Thank you, thank you. That's very kind of you to say. So. Look, we're talking today because your song Dancing Too has just gone to number one on the Australian Singles charts. What does it mean in twenty twenty five to have that sort of success.
It's a solid quest, my guy.
It's funny because you know, in this day and age, it's quite hard to know, you know, how to kind of make a song connect in any way, you know, there's no real rhyme or reason anymore.
The Old Guard is kind of out.
There's an independent release, you know, there's no label backing, and to see it resonate in this way but then carry its own kind of steam and become its own thing, it's an incredible thing.
I don't really have words because to me, it's kind of be on the song.
Now people are soundtracking it for, you know, their babies being born, their marriages, people passing away, people beating cancer, all these things. It seems like this all encompassing scope of humanity soundtracked by this song, and I'm just I'm sitting back and watching the ride and just going, this is nice to see some wholesome positivity and joy on social media.
Yeah, it's very special. I am personally saw it for the first time on TikTok.
Yeah.
At what point in the recording process do you start thinking about social media? Like is it with you in the studio? Is it something that comes after.
I think it should never come into play in the studio. And it's funny because you know, I've been grateful enough to say that music has been my job. I've been doing it for like almost twenty years now. Professionally, and you know, there's so many moments in the studio when you're making something and there'll be someone who will be.
Like, oh yeah, like that'll be like a TikTok, you.
Know, and it's like, as soon as that's even brought into the space, I feel like you may as well just shoot the song in the head and throw it out of the window, because I'd like, this song's a good example of that.
This is this song was a love letter.
I wrote this as a love letter to my girlfriend, and there was never a moment where I was like, this is going to be a song that's released. It's going to be a gift to my girlfriend that I love. And through that process, I don't think there is any space for thinking about the optics of people on TikTok or you know, the optics of radio people or anything like that that do come into one's mind when creating music.
Due to the commerce side of things, I don't know.
I think it's connected because it was just a love letter, you know, But as far as the montages and compilations of like people having these beautiful life moments, I've got nothing to do with that. That's like, that's organic and it's also just like I wouldn't know how to orchestrate that if I tried, you know what I mean? What I do know how to orchestrate is me dancing like
a dickhead in front of a camera. And I think my favorite corners of the internet, as I think most people should be other fun ones where it gets a bit silly, and it's easy to get silly on TikTok, and I.
Do enjoy that a lot.
Yeah, well you look at doing it, so thank you, it's working, thank you. I want to turn now to the charts. You've had a lot of chart success over the years with picking Duck for someone who isn't in the music industry. Why should anyone care about charts? And does something like a chart topping album lead to more opportunities, bigger budgets, festival bookings, things like that?
Solid question.
Yet again, I think any artists, where they like to admit it or not, once flower at some point, you know, you put a lot into a song or an album, into your work, and then it's nice to be recognized by the the powers that be, so to speak. And I think you know there's a lot of people on those boards, whether that's the Grammy Committee or that you know,
the ARIA Board. These are people that have really like they've dedicated their lives to the music and the artists that are in the sphere in that time and what's happening within the culture, and it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of just getting that, like, you know, we see her, and we recognize that that is of quality and of substance that we want to represent.
It's also just.
A representative figure of the data of saying, hey, well you're up there because that many people listening to your shit right now. So that's cool in the sense of
like whoa, what the fuck? That's crazy, But for me personally, it hits on the deeper level just because, like I said, I mean, I've never had a number one before and this is completely independent, there's no label, and it all happened for the people, you know, it wasn't me, you know, like it just started going crazy, Like I thought my phone was fucking glitching when I saw the videos start going and then that kind of spiraled into people really
connecting with the song and that's a beautiful thing. So to see it go number one, I was like, this is insane. You know, but I mean what it means to chart. I'm not sure because it's my first time, so I still don't really know. Maybe in ten years if I get another one, then I'll have a better grasp on it, you know.
Yeah, Okay, we'll circle back, We'll do another phone circle back. Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, perfect. Well, this month we've actually seen some major changes to the way that the ARIA charts are calculated. So I'm not sure if you're sorry, but yep, starting from this week, the main charts have been limited to just focus on songs from the past two years.
Yeah. The idea there being.
That it is trying to better reflect contemporary music listening habits. That means that legacy acts like Crowdit House, who were number one last week now no longer on the same chart.
They've been moved.
Why do you think they've made those changes.
I can't answer why they've done that because I don't know why. But why I think they should have done it a while ago, and now it's great that they've done it is because we all romanticize legacy and nostalgia so much so to a fault.
Very Australian.
It's very Australian right, And there's nothing wrong with romanticizing the past.
We all do it, we're all human.
But it really becomes to a fault when we're so caught up on the past and when not looking at what's happening on our doorstep right now. And there are so many talented Australian artists that we'll never get that shine because we're so hung up on crowded House. I mean, the first of all, they're Kiwis and they're incredible, and so ACDC.
They're incredible. You know, these are really really.
Magical artists that have contributed great art to the world at large. But at the same time, you know, how can we have another ACDC or crowded house without actually nourishing what's here right now. So by doing that, I
think it's incredible. You know, it's giving new artists a spot and a place, and I think there's a lot more work to be done in that whole space, you know, And I'm by no means the gatekeeper on any of that, but I think it's definitely a large step in the right direction as far as celebrating what's actually here right now, especially in this country. There's so many great artists and for a long time. This country has been caught up on like, you know, the old guard of it all.
And that's cool, that's cool, but it ain't moving things forward. And I think there's a way that we can do both. You know, we definitely can do both. I mean, they do that in America, you know, and they do it in the UK. You know, it shows progress and even though it might be you know, a fair bit o a due, that's okay, it's good.
To see the people recognizing that.
And it's things like that that will really propel new music.
You know.
Those things are the things that really move the needle as far as I concern. So I'm ecstatic for new artists in sense for sure.
So that's an overwhelming endorsement of the changes, which is great because I did actually reach out to Aria and the CEO, Annabelle heard told me that dancing to taking the number one spot this week is one of the strongest signs that their new system is working.
I'll tell you good though, an absolute.
Win, she said. Kellie Holliday hitting number one is exactly the kind of breakthrough these changes were designed to make more visible.
What do you make of that?
That's awesome? First and foremost, that's cool. I didn't know that you spoke to them. Yes, that's cool. I think, yeah, it is interesting because for me, I'm really ecstatic about
it all as far as the charts. Back to your question before and now to answer this one, it's like, you know, this was really independent, This was a really independent release, and a lot of people when they heard the album and this song said we can't touch it, we don't know what to do with it, we don't think this is going to work here or there.
And we were like, okay, you know, that's cool whatever, We're going to put it out anyway.
And then just kind of see those same people come around and be like, oh no, no, no, we get it now. It's just interesting thing that it kind of proves the point that a lot of people won't know what they think is good until it's really there and in front of them, and they really kind of force to look at it a bit. And I don't blame anyone for that. I think that's human nature or human error for lack
of a better term. But I think it's kind of historically cool in a way that like the first time that they brought in that new rule where they've got to get rid of the old stuff and it's got to be new. I got to swing in there with an independent release, no less, because you know, if you look at those charts, a lot of them are with
major labels. So I'm really proud of that because it shows that, like grass roots level, I think the people are really dictating what's hold now more than ever, obviously with social media, but to see that kind of influence from the people bleed into these larger discussions such as charts and what have you, it's like, it's dope, it's dope.
It feels like a bit of a I don't.
Want to use the word revolution, that's a bit heavy, but it feels like a pleasant change, a new eraror so.
I think the idea that they had with the changes was that it would give more visibility to new releases like Dancing Too and other songs that are on the chart. Now, how do you think that turning up on the charts trickles down to the everyday listener like me?
Solid quest?
I think, I mean, I don't know, I guess if something is up on the charts, then streaming services and radio you would hope at least they would then be like, Okay, we should probably give this a spin. You know, we should probably give this a bit of shine or a bit of time in the sun, which would then trickle down to.
The person who.
You know, we all use streaming services in this day and age, but I think it's representative of what's happening within pop culture as well as you know now it's like TikTok and Instagram, those things dictate pop culture fully. You know, there's memes made about you know, what happened to the VMA's, and that's all part of it. And then through that those songs get streams and it kind of trickles back and it's all just part of the discussion around pop culture.
You know.
I can't answer what a chart position would do in that sense. I just think it's more so representative of where that piece of music is sitting in the zeitgeist of culture.
And that's cool.
Like if that's a marker for that, then fuck yeah, you know, so be it, because there should be little markers I think. You know, even though it's cool to be airy fairy about things, I'm a pretty strong supporter of like, yeah, we should have a bit of a bit.
Of a system somewhere. You know.
That kind of just is like, let's talk about sales because you know, speaking of ACDC, they had the second highest selling record of all time with Back in.
Black, which is fucking wild.
I only found that out like a year ago, and I'm born and raised Camber, Australia. It's like, we should be talking about that shit more, you know, which is interesting because we're so in love with legacy, yet we don't. If I was taught that shit in school, I'd be fucking angus young junior ten years ago, you know what I mean. Like, but these are the things that are super important, and like stats like that do make things more believable.
You know, you kind of need a number every now and then to be like, oh shit, that's legit. We're in a weird time with music in general.
It's an exciting time, but a strange time nonetheless, because nobody really knows where to pick it. You can't really you know, everyone's pissing in the wind and in the dark at the same down time, which is fun.
That's what I think is interesting about this whole discussion is that bodies like Aria grappling with habit measure. What is popular right now. It used to be a lot easier. What's on the radio? What are people buying physically in stores? So it is like one that we will continue to watch as it changes. Just to your point about people discovering your music through social media, Yeah, can I ask how do you personally discover new music?
Ah?
Word of mouth seems to be the one way I discovered in many ways, but the one way that I've found I really listened to that piece of music and I go, you know, I'll give it my all is word of mouth through people that I really fuck with, like people that I love, or you know, people that I look up to, or people that I really I know that their taste level is like their reference points are fucking bang on because I know they're not going to give me a dud.
And if it's something I haven't heard of, I'll run to that.
Piece of music and I'll sit there and absorb it all with my eyes closed, and then I'll be like yeah, okay, and then I'll fucking hyper fixate on it for a week. And that's a good way to digest music. I mean, that's my way of digesting music. Everyone's different.
What's going Number One on Adam Heade's phone right now.
Well, it's funny.
Right now, I'm just listening to Lennar Cohen back to back to back. I think Lennard co I'm pretty convinced Lennar Cohen is the closest thing we have to God.
Big call, big call, but a true call in my eyes. I just wanted to.
Wrap up by talking about the future. The ARI CEO also told us that it can be difficult for local artists to break through and what she called a competitive global music landscape. So there's probably teenagers listening to the podcast today that might be considering a career in music. Any advice about overcoming barriers such as a competitive global media landscape.
Well, first of all, anyone that is listening that is creating music, I salute you. The pursuit of creativity is never anyone. A torturous one and a very rewarding one, and it don't get any easier. It's always hard, but
it is fun when you have those breakthroughs. And I think it gets harder and harder in the sense that, yes, it feels like if you're in Australia creating music right now, you're up against you know, the world literally, But what I will say is, never stop because of that, because at the end of the day, good art will always penetrate and will always get sometime in the light.
It always will.
And I know it feels like you're falling on deaf ears and your music's getting thrown in the dark, or your art or your movies or whatever it is that you're creating. But it sounds so corny, But the actual journey of the creation itself is the pleasant part. That's where you get all the joy and all the beauty out of Once you've done that, it's out of your control,
it really is. You know, you can do a million interviews, you can sign to a big record label, or you can do a stunt where you jump off the Sydney Harbor Bridge naked to promote your music. You can do whatever you want, but at the end of the day, it's really up to the people you know that will
really decide what happens from there. If you enjoy what you're doing, keep doing it because you should never be discouraged by algorithms or you know, data or numbers or what people tell you, because you know, some of the greatest pieces of art have been made by people that were constantly pushed down, you know, but they kept going. And I think perseverance is the most potent antidote to those kind of mentalities.
You know, if you just keep going, it'll work itself out.
And it is hard, you know, I'm not saying it's a walk in the park by no means, especially people ain't got cash.
It costs money.
Shit's hard, But what's harder is sitting there wishing that you did that shit. You know, there's always a way, and you find that way, pursue that way, you can get it all day.
Well, that's a beautiful message turned on.
Yeah, it's a poem.
Adam Hide, Kelly Holiday, thank you for joining the Daily.
Thank you very much. It's a pledge treasure.
That was a fabulous interview, Elliott. Thanks so much to Adam Hyde for joining us, and thank you for joining us too on the Daily OS. We'll be back again with this evening's headlines and then once again on Monday coming into your feed with another deep dive. Until then, have a great weekend.
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Dunda Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country.
The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations.
We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.