Already and this is this is the Daily This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.
Good morning, and welcome to The Daily OS. My name is Sam Kozlowski. And on today's episode of our TDA summer series, we thought we'd bring you what was probably one of our proudest moments as an organization, and that was bringing an exclusive interview with ex AFL player Mitch Brown to light. In that interview, Mitch told us and told Australia that he was the first openly gay or bisexual male AFL player in the game's one hundred and
twenty nine year history. It was an incredible moment and if we look back on that moment now, we can just see how much progress already has been made in this conversation and the continued work that Mitch has done since his interview with The Daily OS. For me personally, it was one of the most nerving interviews I've done in my years at TDA, because the stakes were high and it was honor to be trusted with Mitch's story.
Here's that chat with Mitch and I and I think it's something that will all look back on as a key moment in twenty twenty five, let's talk about that identity, and let's talk about some of the stereotypes that exist
around bisexuality. I want to kind of foreshadow what I think the comments section might look like on our chat, and I want to ask whether you're worried about being dismissed because you have a female partner and you present, as you've said, as what many would stereotype as a straight man.
It does does worry me. It worries me to a point. But at the end of the day, I'm strong enough. I know who I am, I know the people that I love, and that's all that matters to me. But I think, think through my experience what I've learned, and as I grew up, your sexuality or being queer for a man only meant you're either gay or you're not. There's no in between. Youither can't be, you can't love both, can't be sexually attracted to both. Bisexuality is not a thing.
It's made up to cover gay men or straight presenting gay men, right, And this is what I've learned. One of the powerful lessons I've learned from our young people is, you know, I feel that young people here in Australia think of sexuality so different. It's so black and white. For older generations and for young people, sexuality means different things. Queerness means different things. Being a bisexual man can look different, and it does look different.
Bisexual people face discrimination not just from the straight community, but also from other members of the LGBT community. There's this sense of being too gay for straight spaces and too straight for gay spaces. Have you experienced that sort of double rejection?
You know what I've experienced, especially my history and my background. Grew up in the country. I've got a you know, an identical twin brother who played football as well, stoic and strong. I definitely like I feel sometimes like I question my own place in the queer community. And you know, look at you, You're a white male privilege, looking the way you do, trying to step into our trauma that's ours.
And I acknowledge that too, like the first one to understand that and to admit my journey has been relatively easy.
The fact that I can see here and say I'm comfortable and strong in talking about my sexuality such a privilege, because I know there's so many people out there, so many men out there that especially bisexual men or straight presenting men with a strong masculine friendship group, or you know, they may be married to a woman or have a girlfriend that's a woman having these feelings questioning or being attracted to another man and feeling shamed and embarrassed about it.
And part of the reason why I wanted to share some of my experiences is so those people, whether they want to start talking about it with their partner or with their friends or someone in their community, that they feel seen and that it's okay. It's okay to have these feelings. You're not any less of a man, whatever that means, you know. I remember the comments from Gil McLaughlin, CEO of the AFL.
I wanted to ask you about them.
So he said that he can understand why nobody has come out in the men's game, because why would anybody want that burden? How does that make you feel in the seat that you're in now?
I remember those comments, and the conversation in the locker room just exacerbated that fear even more if you're a gay man or a bisexual man sitting in that locker room, because the players would be like, oh, can you imagine this? This, or I even heard the one night. You know, I'd even do it. I would even pretend so I could get some money out of it or anything like that. It's like, it's absurd, But I remember those comments, and
it's really easy for me as a pass player. You know, I don't have to run out there at the MCG in front of eighty thousand fans next week. I don't have to fly over to a hostile Adelaide Oval and play and fear the comments being thrown at me. But I can imagine for a player that you know, this is their livelihood, this is a job, that a workplace
that provides income for their family and their future. Maybe it's worth not saying anything and then having a football career, successful football career, because if you don't say anything, I can still and I'm still playing good football, and then I can finish, retire and then sail off to the sunset and go find my community.
So what would you say to them?
Then?
What would you say to gay or bisexual men currently playing in the AFL?
What I would say, and this is, you know, there are currently games and bisexual men playing in the AFL at the moment and in the past. You know, I only feel okay to I guess in quotations take this title. This is not about me. It's not about Mitch Brown being the first at all. For me. It's about sharing my experience so others can feel seen, others can have a role model. I'm not famous. Previously, many people wouldn't
know that I'm played for ten years. But to have someone and then maybe there will be that second person, and then the third, maybe there'll be a current player, and as that community grows, the empathy grows. If this has an impact on one person, it's worth it. It matters what are you hoping.
The AFL says in response to hearing.
This interview, My advice to the AFL would be to celebrate positive male role models. We celebrate the ones who are successful in the eyes of whether it's wealth or the amount of disposals you get on the weekend. You know. My advice to the AFL would be, let's celebrate the players. You know, they may not be the most successful, but they are the most important players in our community, the ones who are walking down the street and portraying positive male role model all the time.
Do you think when there's players making homophobic slurs on the field, like the one that we're talking about at the moment, AzaC Grankn as we head into a final series, do you think that match bands is the tool that you would be using to try and prevent these from happening in the future.
I thought about this a lot, and you know, personally, it doesn't affect me or I don't feel strongly either way, whether you know a player cops a five week band or a one week or nothing. What matters to me most is a sense of change, a movement created where you can be anyone and feel like you can be anyone and be safe in any environment here in Australia.
And I understand like I've got two young boys that I love very much, and as a parent you often think about what's the future of for them and what do you want for them? And you know they're a sporting nation. The boys are going to play sport. All that I care about is there no matter of environment they are, whether it's in the group chat, whether it's in their basketball or footy team, whether it's at school, they feel safe and comfortable to be whoever they want to be.
What do you hope they think when one day they're a bit young now, probably to sit through the length of this. But what do you hope that they think about you when they watch this one day?
I mean, this is one of my this is one of my fears is you know, will they get bullied when they get a bit older? You know, what kind of comments or articles will they click on when they have access to the internet. But overriding those thoughts, those negative thoughts, I mean, they were proud. Last night I shared with the boy's mum, my ex wife, Shay, what I was going to do. I mean that was really important for me, and I was to be honest, worried
about her reaction. Would she will be worried about the reaction of the community and how that would affect our two boys who are very young. And it surprised me. She reacted really well. She sent me a text message actually this morning and I'd like to share it says good luck this morning. I'm so proud of you and right behind you all the way. This will make the world a slightly better place for our boys and young
men in Australia, hopefully old men too. This is living the values of the kind of man I want our boys to grow up to be. Men that care and are proud of who they are. You know what matters most is starting a chain reaction, starting a movement. I mean, I'm in this position, strong and comfortable to, as Gil McLaughlin says, take the burden and if that, if someone needed to do it, I'm in the space to do it. And I've done it, and hopefully this now provides the safety,
the comfort and the space for the second person. And I mean, who's counting anyway?
You're shown unbelievable wisdom, maturity, compassion in this chat. Leave us with some guidance. What's the best way for footy fans and for your loved ones, even the ones or especially the ones that are learning this for the first time. What's the best way for them to show up from here interested for you, but also for the sport and for the AFL and for young men in general.
What can we do?
I've mentioned the power of uplifting role models, and I've mentioned the power of empathy. I think that if you can find it somewhere in your heart, whether you're sitting there watching football on the weekend or you're sitting next to your brother, to have a sense of empathy that hey, they might be that very person that might be suppressing feelings. They might be that person that is feeling so trapped
and unhappy because they can't be who they are. And if they can have even a little bit of sense of hey, you know what, it's okay, that sense of empathy, even just a fraction, I think it will make it a huge difference.
Mitch, thank you for showing up today and for being the man that you are.
Thanks for providing the space Sah.
Thanks for joining us today, and importantly, thank you to Mitch for telling his story. If you need support or someone to talk to at any time, you can contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen or queue life on one eight hundred one eight four five two seven.
We'll speak to you on Monday.
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations.
We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present,