Today's episode is brought to you by e Safety, Australia's online safety regulator. Love shouldn't feel like control. If your partner pressures you to let them track you or demands constant updates, that's not care. In fact, it could be tech based coercive control. Trust your instincts. To learn about the warning signs of tech based coercive control, visit e safety dot gov dot AU forward slash Love isn't as always.
This podcast has been produced independently with no editorial influence from e safety.
Already and this this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Sunday, the twenty fifth of May. I'm belief, It's Simon's I'm Sam Kazlowski. Over the past few years, there has been a growing conversation about coercive control in romantic relationships. Now, if you don't know what that is, we will get more into it today. But basically, it's a pattern of behavior that manipulates, intimidates
or dominates another person. Just last year, New South Wales became the first state in Australia to criminalize coercive control. Shortly followed by Queensland. Now new research from E Safety has looked into how this is playing out on or even being fast tracked by technology. Essentially, they wanted to know what attitudes and behaviors have become normalized amongst younger generations who have grown up in the digital age that
actually could be a red flag for coercive control. For example, how many people think it's normal and healthy to track their partner's location. Now, just a quick heads up before we get into it, Sam, As you would have heard at the start of this podcast, this episode is sponsored by e Safety, who produced the report that we will be talking about today, saying that though this episode has gone through our normal editorial processes that are independent of a safety So.
Why don't we start super simple, Billy, let's start with really getting our heads around what is coercive control.
So coercive control I briefly touched on it before, but it's when a person displays a pattern of controlling and manipulative behaviors in the context of a relationship. And I think one of the important words there is pattern.
So we're not talking about like a single incident, No, it's about a whole series of behavior.
Exactly, and think of it as like someone forcing or pressuring you to do certain things over a period of time, and typically that behavior is designed to isolate someone or to limit their autonomy, or even to question their own sanity. I feel like over the past couple of years there's been this big conversation about gas lighting, right, yeah, and
that really ties in with coercive control. When you are literally questioning kind of what's real and what's not and you kind of feel like you're going crazy.
And I guess sometimes whether you're the problem. Yes, definitely, and within coercive control, though there's so many different aspects of.
It exactly, it's a really broad term, but there are some typical examples, So things like controlling finances, if just one person in the relationship is controlling all the finances and perhaps even blocks the other person from looking at the finances. There's things like monitoring behavior, making threats, or even something like insulting someone over time, or even something
like controlling what they are wearing. It's things like that that build up over time and taken all together, can constitute coercive control.
And the really diabolical thing I think about coercive control is that it's an invisible form of domestic violence in Australia.
Yeah, and I think sometimes people have to stop and think, what is someone caring for you and what is someone controlling you? And those are two very different things, and you have to you know, I think it can be tricky to navigate. There isn't a playbook that you get when you get into a relationship that's like this is someone controlling you or this is someone caring for you.
But the research does show that it's becoming an increasingly more common part of abuse in romantic relationships.
Yes, and it's actually one of the most common forms of how people experience abuse from a romantic partner. I think, you know, ten twenty years ago, the conversation about intimate partner violence was very limited to physical harm. But we know that that is only one part of domestic violence and how someone can experience abuse in an intimate relationship is a lot more broad than that.
It's a really interesting point, that one, because I mean, you and I have worked in this newsroom for a long time and we've covered many stories where coercive control plays a very important role. And one of the things that's really stuck with me through those examples is that coercive control can often have a close link to physical violence.
I think the way to think about it is that not all coercive control leads to physical harm, although again even without that, even without the physical harm, it is still absolutely a form of domestic violence on its own, on its own, yeah, definitely, But most physical violence does start with coercive control.
Okay, that's important.
Yes, And there's a mountain of evidence that shows that.
And so the reason we're having this chat about it today is because of this new research, and the new research focuses on tech based coercive control. We're talked through, you know, an understanding of coercive control broadly. Let's zone in now on tech and the role that tech can play. How does that materialize?
Yeah, so this is the idea of using technology again to control, manipulate, and isolate someone. Now, one of the key focuses of this from this report for me safety was focused on location tracking. Na, Sam, I'm sure you're probably familiar. I've find my friends.
It's a big part of everybody's iPhone if they're on that phone user. I know there's another equivalent for Android as well, and you know it's essentially this whole new power that all phone carriers have to track people who are in their network, and there's obviously an opt in element to that process, but it's really built into a lot of the social apps as well. I mean, Snapchat is an interesting one to talk about.
I was going to say, I think what's so interesting about this discussion is how normalized it has become. I remember when Snapchat first came out with I think it's called snap Friends or SnapMap SnapMap. When that first came out, I was at university and I just remember being shocked that this was a thing, and it felt like potentially a dangerous thing that so many people could suddenly track
your location. And since then, I think it's no longer a shocking thing, like we have all become so normalized to the idea that people in your circle could have your location.
And I do think it's important to mention that, I mean, from the perspective of the tech companies that are enabling these services, there are a lot of genuine uses for tracking technology. I mean there's stories about people being rescued if they're in the middle of a hike somewhere in regional Australia and that actually assists them. It's when the technology is misused by the users that's really concerning.
Definitely, And I think it's something that you know a lot of parents, for example, would use for their kids. But again, I think it comes back to if you grow up in an age where you know the people close to you do have you on location, and then you enter a relationship and that person says that they would like to have you on location, it becomes a really tricky thing. And I think it's important for you
to understand what your own personal boundaries are. Yeah, because again it's hard to even figure out what your personal boundaries are when it is so normal.
As and how old you are, I mean, how old you are listening to this podcast and trying to understand this conversation and whether I guess you could say whether you're a map and location native and that's all you've ever known, or this is a new piece of technology that you're getting a head around. But I want to be super clear on something before we go any further. Is having a partner on a tracker classified as coercive control.
No, it's definitely not that black and white. I think the point is, though it crosses a line when someone has an expectation, that's the key word. If there is an expectation for your partner to have you on tracker, that's when it kind of is a red flag for coercive control, right, And I think E Safety's key message here is that a respectful partner shouldn't or wouldn't expect
to see your location twenty four to seven. Definitely. Maybe if you know you're going out for a night and you send your location for an hour, but I think, well.
That's you volunteering your location.
Yes, I think it's are you willingly and freely giving someone your location or do you feel pressure to do that?
And do you think there's also an element as well about how the partner is using your location?
Yes? Do you mean, like if they're constantly checking it or if it's only when you know you might be in need that they are then looking at it? Or is it a twenty four seven.
Pattern of behavior? Are there text messages associated with the location and all that kind of stuff?
Yeah, definitely. And I think the other thing that is interesting is once you give your location indefinitely, it's quite hard to take that back. Yeah, interest that leads to quite a difficult conversation. I actually have a story about this. So I have used Find my Friends, and you know, someone from like ten years ago, a friend we shared our location indefinitely, I think, like on a night out or something. Yeah, And I'm not super close with that
person anymore, definitely civil, no falling out. But now ten years later, I still have that person's location and whenever I see it, I'm like, I really should stop that. But if you stop it, I'm pretty sure sense of notification.
Yeah.
Interesting.
And so because I haven't spoken to her in like two or three years, I'm like, I don't really want her to get a notification saying we've stopped sharing our location. And I think that's another interesting thing to talk about, is that once you share it, it can be hard or it can be awkward to take that back.
And if that's how you're feeling about a friend that you have, you know, a very civil, really very civil, but distant relationship from, and you're feeling that awkwardness or perhaps some fear around cutting the cord of that location relationship, you can imagine that somebody in an intimate romantic relationship, even if it's a short one, that pressure really mounts Up.
I have had that moment with a partner.
How did you navigate it?
I think as soon as you break up, you just have to immediately stop sharing the location. And I mean for me, at least, it was a very normal conversation to be like, obviously we wouldn't have each other on tracker. But I think since that has happened, it has made me think like, oh, that's a really hard thing to end, and once you give it over, it requires a conversation that, no doubt is uncomfortable.
I think one observation that is just sticking with me is just how prevalent is with really young members of society. And I'm talking kind of sixteen to twenty year olds who perhaps have phones for the very first time. I mean, my brother is twenty one, so he's just out of that age group. All of his friends, like, you know, his snap map and his find my friend's maps are crowded. They're crowded with hundreds and hundreds of people.
That is crazy.
It's crazy, and it's you know, we're saying it's crazy. I'm thirty, your twenty six seven.
Wait, do you actually think that your younger brother has hundreds and hundreds of people on find my Friends in stat.
Map absolutely and makes decisions about where to go out on a night out based on where people are. And it's a whole nother language, and it's a whole nother way of understanding. And I want to be really careful here, not to just be grumpy old people and past judgment. This is an important part of their digital ecosystem. I can't believe I'm sounding old, dirty, but it's a really important conversation to be having. The rush is to jump to judgment. That's not what no, we want to do here.
We want to have conversations about this and make sure that if somebody needs help that they can lean on people who might be older than them to have conversations, and the people who are older than them actually receive it openly.
And I think this conversation is kind of about does society need an almost course correction, like have we gone too far one way? You know, if you're saying your younger brother has hundreds of people, do we need a course correction of being like, hold on a second, this has become way too normalize. We need to take a step back and be like is this right?
And whether that's even possible.
Yeah.
Interesting, But I'm conscious that you and I have talked a lot here about anecdotes and personal experiences. What does the report actually say about this?
So Ease Safety surveyed more than two thousand Australian adults and then they found, just like we've been talking about, that younger people are more likely to have the expectation that they should be able to track their partner. So amongst participants aged eighteen to twenty four, nearly one in five participants agreed that expecting to track a partner whenever they want is reasonable.
Interesting.
So that's one in five young people believing they should be able to track their partner, But that was less common for participants of all ages, which just speaks to you know, younger people have grown up in this digital age.
And is it mostly this tracking element of technology that dominates the discussion.
There's definitely other ways. E Safety also looked into how many people expect to have your partner's passwords and codes. So it found that nearly one in four Australian surveys said it is reasonable to have that expectation.
And with the rise and rise and rise of streaming services, phone passwords at passwords online shopping, that's becoming a greater part of relationship conversations. That's a really interesting point. But if we zoom out, why are we here, why do you think this has all been so normalized?
Well, I think apart from what we've spoken about about young people growing up in the digital age, I think there's also a point that some people believe that by sharing passwords or by having someone on tracker, that they are able to build trust with that person.
Right, you're an open book exactly.
But I think the thing to think about is is that actually building trust or is not having those things, not having someone's location twenty four to seven, not having their password, actually building trust because you don't need access to those things to know that your partner is not doing anything wrong. Because that's kind of the reason why so many people do believe that they should have it, because they think there is potentially a possibility that your
partner is doing something wrong. But by having access to those things, you're able to make sure that they're not. But is that actually control and not trust?
It can all be so hard to navigate, Billy, and we're talking about something that's very personal, and this is not a regular news story, and so it's not a regular episode because there is such a personal aspect to this, that's right.
I think it is so personal, and that's why we kind of need to ask ourselves certain questions, So things like am I creating my own personal boundaries without anyone influencing what that is? And you know, just like so many aspects of intimate relationship, that's up to you what your boundaries are. I think another question though, is do
I see and respect the boundaries of my partner? You know, like if my partner tells me what their boundaries are, do I then accept that, have a conversation about it, but then not pressure them to try to change those boundaries.
Okay, that's a lot to kind of take in, and I'm sure that people listening are thinking about how this conversation fits in with a relationship that they might be in or that might know about with somebody that they know and love, and it's a really important conversation to have.
And as I said earlier, I think that you've done a wonderful job in trying to just help us understand that this is not simple, this is not black and white, but the worst thing that we can be doing is not having this conversation definitely, so thank you for that. Thank you, and we'll be back again tomorrow with another episode of The Daily Os. Until then, have a wonderful Sunday.
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Os acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Nearly one in five young adults think it's okay to track their partner whenever they want. But that's not love, that's a red flag. New research, which from e Safety shows that many controlling behaviors in relationships, like constant tracking, demanding passwords, or expecting instant replies to NonStop texts a scene is normal or even caring, but these can be signs of tech based coercive control, a pattern of manipulation that can escalate into serious harm. Respectful relationships are built
on trust and consent, not control. Talk about your digital boundaries and if something doesn't feel right, trust your instincts or speak to someone who knows you and what's important to you. To learn about the warning signs of tech based coercive control, visit e safety dot dot au slash love isn't. If you've experienced abuse or violence from a partner, call one eight hundred respect for free confidential advice.