¶ Welding Industry Podcast Networking Event
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All right , ladies and gentlemen , welcome to our annual cross pod . Joining us this year for the first time is Frank Vargas with Uniweld . We're bringing him into the fold . I'll let everybody else introduce themselves .
I'm Kevin with JMW Fabrication and the Welding Business Owners Podcast . Great to be back here , guys .
Thank you Awesome . I'm Max Ron from the CWB Association Podcast and this is always a good time . Sorry for the voice . This is my ninth speaking session this week .
That sounds like an excuse , Max .
But anyway .
I'm Frank Vargas with New World Products . I also have a Torch Tales Podcast as well , and just grateful to be here with you guys and obviously Jason Be podcast as well , and , uh , just grateful to be here with you guys .
And obviously jason becker with ark junkies podcast . Once again , it's good to be back . Every year it's a family reunion , we always say that , but uh , it's been a great week catching up with you guys yeah , um I know we've been to a lot of the similar events . You guys actually get to see the show at all this year max uh , 45 minutes okay that's plenty .
That's plenty . You can take this entire show in 45 minutes .
Uh , I got 45 minutes to do a little bit of walking . I didn't see anything on the south side , a little bit of welding . Checked in on the boys at the booth , stopped in and saw the friends and did a little bit of touring . But hopefully after here I'll get to do a little bit .
Yeah , I worked at the bathroom a few times so I kind of saw whatever was between the bathroom and the booth . Yeah , so , yeah , it was awesome .
Kevin , you always try to shy away from commitments during these things , so you can actually go see the show floor yeah yeah , it worked out again this year it did .
It was really great . I got to see the welding side and for this being my I believe it's my fifth Fabtech . You know most of the stuff is kind of the same , changes a little bit and the stuff that you've looked at other years . It's kind of cool to see how things evolve and get better and cheaper throughout the years .
So I went over to the South Building yesterday . There's not much over there for us , so we kind of just hung out here today and here we are ready to fly out in about an hour and a half .
You got the hard . Stop right the hard stop .
So where do you call home ?
Pennsylvania . Oh cool , An hour north of .
Philadelphia Short flight . Yeah , all right , cool , no . So I think I agree with you Definitely . This is probably my 10th Fabtechs before take First time in Orlando . As we all know , right Because of a lot of right .
Jason's , of course , is super happy because he's going home every single night , are you actually ? No , I'm staying at the resident center next door . I forgot .
He has that AWS money , so yeah .
He does not , I assure you , he does not .
He had to fight for that one . But it's so good , but it's definitely . Yeah , I call Fort Lauderdale home as well , so for me it was just like ooh , first time I'll take it . So are you driving home every night ?
You go home .
It's a three-and that's not what he asked . Yeah , you're right . No , Yep .
The only reason I decided to stay here was because all the after hours events and then , how early Fabtech starts . So I got to bed at 4 o'clock last night and then got up at 8 o'clock this morning to be over at the AWS booth at 930 . I got an hour drive home so it just made sense to stay over here . Just because of all the you .
You never know what time you're going home . But you know , and then you got obligations in the morning . This year I tried to stay back with a lot of the obligations .
I remember chicago oh , man , I was .
I think I did seven podcasts that week down there in the dungeon , yeah , and then two , two or three up on the show floor . Plus we did a couple of panel discussions , a couple stoppings yeah all . So I didn't get to see any of the show . Just what was between point A and B ? It's like , hey , you know .
Yeah , I'll see you later . See you tomorrow .
This year I tried to taper back on some of that . And it was still . I still didn't give myself enough time .
Well , to be honest , talking to you like six months ago , you were like I'm going to take a super chill I'm . We'll have lots of time to hang out and stuff . You didn't seem any less busy .
I know I need to dial it back even further next time , oh really yeah , we'll see he says that every single time I say that every time , yeah .
Yep , and what about you , frank , like here , did you do any Torch Tale stuff ? Did you do any ?
podcast stuff . So actually I did too , you know for me than you guys , because I have a booth that I actually have to work and man the whole show . So it's usually either very early in the morning or late , and we know what happens after the show .
The best content . Yeah right , All my work happens from like 6 pm to like 3 am .
The rated R version , so that's the one that just stays in my phone and it doesn't go anywhere else . But no , it's been great , but tomorrow I'm doing another one and then I think I'm staying in Orlando for another week or so . So I have some things lined up .
Have you seen Frankie's setup ?
No , no , no , I haven't been on his podcast yet .
Oh , I wasn't trying to bring up any bad blood . No , he has this Pelican case that's like this big and everything's just in there . It's an entire freaking studio . He came over to Underground Metalworks to set something up . I was like hey , man set up over here . He opens the box . I thought he was going to put a little recorder on the table .
No , he's got everything . He's got a full light production studio inside of this box . I don't know how he does it .
It's like you know old money . It's like you know old money . Really , it's an entire studio .
It's like the cartoons where you hit the button and everything starts to unfold and the next thing you know it's like a McMansion he's got all that in this little box .
That's awesome . You know what it is . I travel like three weeks out of the month . So for me , if I had to travel with everything else you have , Max there's no way I would do what I do . There's not a chance . So for me it's way too much . I'm already on the road too much . I'm like I need to go lighter and lighter .
So a few thousand dollar laters , you know just like , oh , that works .
That's going to be the one pay for the weight one way or the other .
Yeah , production or increases I know , I know , but you know , so far , so far , I think I've found the . The magic trick Does .
Uniwell support your podcast , or is it two separate ?
things . So they know what I do and they don't have a say , Well , or is there a ?
say they got a little bit more pull than you know , yeah , so let me just kind of rephrase that again .
So no , they know what I do and they're really cool about the whole thing . So as long as they know that I'm also doing what I need to do for them , they're happy and they don't mind . They also know that organically just gives them recognition . People recognize me more . Therefore , I can have those conversations open the door here and there .
So no , they're cool and I'm grateful for that . What about you , kevin ?
You know , you got your business your podcast . You don't have a booth here , though You're here walking the show . You're not doing podcasts here , though .
No , my podcast actually started out from the beat-ups at Fabtech , because I felt like I didn't have enough time to talk to everybody here and I wanted to just hop on Zoom calls and hit record and I did , and we put it out there and it's grown since then and I don't have any products to sell .
I was selling a little bit of advertising to Lincoln , but then they stepped up and gave us everything we wanted for the Fabricator Olympics . I kind of feel bad asking them for hey do you want to come ? sponsor the podcast some more . So no , you guys are talking about all this equipment .
I'm still probably like like sub 400 bucks in mine , he's doing it right , yeah , right . I have like I have a hundred hour microphone . I've got my headset . I put these on . These things are nice .
I'm still working like the $30 .
Amazon ones . I got like four years ago and plug it into my computer and that's it . I need internet and I just go Trust me .
You're the smart one . I broke a pair of these the other day I went to put them on and I was like , why is this loose ? I took it off and it just fell off . I almost had a heart attack .
This is awful .
It's not a part that I can fix .
Just weld it , man .
If I had somebody with a 3D printer , I could probably save them .
I'll send it to you .
They're still in the trash at the house .
I'll pull them out , I'll show you the business .
Right there .
Tell me the broken one , I'll model up and print it out for you . Oh sweet .
He just wants to play with his toy .
I'm just sending you an invoice of about $105 .
Yeah , I know right . Well , it would actually be , worth it , money well spent .
I'm going to send you a few things too . I'm going to go through my trash as well .
We don't want what's in your trash .
He never asks . He never asks , yep .
Yep , but I I think we're supposed to talk about , because the boss over there said the topic of the discussion was going to be all about running , owning and starting a business Right , which is something all of us have done at one point or another , or are currently doing , so let's kick it off with that .
Like Kevin , I mean , you run a couple different businesses . First of all , what prompted you to start your business , the JMW Fabricate ? What ?
prompted me was I was doing side work for a long time and I was working at , actually , a scrapyard doing the mechanical work and the welding there and we started to get slow and my boss said you know what ? I know you're doing your side thing . It's kind of what you want to do . How can I help you ? Go out on your own and it was built .
No , this was another guy and um from there .
I said you know what , rent me a bay in one of your shops till I get my shop built . Because I had just went to the bank and got alone to build my pole barn . And at that time I'm like do not lay me off , don't fire me . I don't have the cash , I'm approved , it's coming . I don't have the cash yet , so built my , it's coming .
I don't have the cash yet , so built my shop and kind of went from there
¶ Entrepreneurship Realities and Challenges
. But I would totally do it all over again because really for me it's entrepreneurship is in me and you know , if somebody- .
It's like a virus . It is it is .
And you know I'm an entrepreneur in the welding space but I could really be in a lot of other mechanical spaces if I wanted to . But this is just where my love is .
And if somebody was looking to start a business , you know , when you go into this venture you have to think about you might be good at what you do at welding and fabrication , but there is so much more to it and really , if the first step to starting a business is asking yourself , do you really want to do it ? Do you know what you're getting into ?
Because everybody sees the money , everybody sees the stuff , everybody sees the time freedom that you have , which you really don't have .
When does all that come ?
Yeah , I was going to say what do you mean ? Everyone sees the money Like where , when , how ?
I mean everybody shows that and that's what they want and if you do it right you can get that . But it is not easy and you have to really ask yourself if you are a good fabricator and good welder . There is a place for you in businesses , like a lot of times I joke with all my guys .
I'm like I would rather just go hop on a mower and cut grass someday . You know like that sounds really appealing on those hard days and then in a week I'd be bored and I'd be back to it . But you know there's . You really have to ask yourself is this for me ? Do I love the business side ?
You don't have to love it , you just have to not hate it , you just have to like .
I really enjoy ignore you can't , you can't ignore , you cannot ignore if you ignore it .
You're going to fail . You're you're gonna fail . So you have to ask yourself this is something I want to do and should I be doing this and do I have the experience ? There's a lot of people who go out there , and some guys straight out of school . They see the money . They've been working at a place for two years and they're like I can do this .
There's a lot of liability in what we do . You need to have experience . Like a lot of people . They're like oh , I'm coming out of wedding school , I want to start my own business . I'm like don't Go work for somebody , go learn on their dollar , go learn on their time . You get to leave and leave it all behind at 5 , 6 o'clock at night .
You know , get your 10,000 hours before you really go out there .
Yeah , that's definitely a good point . In my line of work , not only do I see so many businesses that start within a year or two , they're gone because they don't do the homework .
They just see that flashy lifestyle and the flexibility of like , hey , I can close and go whenever I want to , and then they realize that they didn't do the homework on what's my competition ?
what's my purpose what do I want to ?
do , but then they'll just great . I just go nine to five , I don't have to work weekends anymore . And then they realize that they are responsible for every single little thing you know they don't think about insurance . they don't think about all these other things that just keep piling up and in my life .
So I handle all of the us and canada as well , and sometimes I go visit one customer one time . A year later they're no longer there and then you talk to the owners and what happened ?
Now we're in the food or something else , because somebody else came in and put in the work , and definitely they just pay attention to all the little details that most people don't , when all you see is like , oh , max has a great business , I can copy that . But they don't know the 10,000 hours that you just talked about .
I remember I opened my own business many years ago , like 20 years ago , and I was doing dry nuts and fruits and all these kind of things and all selling to the cruise ships , and I had a bunch of accounts and the one thing that I felt that it was because I didn't trust anyone . So it was like you know , I can do it all myself .
I set up my whole kitchen , everything my house , stainless steel , you name it . I had everything going on , but I was working like 75 hours a week because I was never sleeping , I was always packing something or doing something and I didn't want anyone else involved . Like I got this , this is my baby , this dude don't even look at me , I'm done .
That only lasted about eight months . I got so burned out . I was like this I don't want to touch this , I don't want to do this ever again .
So I started working for other big companies , of course , and I still have my own business in dominican republic , something that I opened about four or five years ago , and talk about being difficult having a business when you are next door to the country yeah , now imagine when you have to satellite and run that business kind of trusting everyone .
So that's the one thing I learned from my first time , you know , the first mistakes I've made of not just trusting . Now I'm like I got to trust you because I have no choice .
Yeah , you definitely can't do it all by yourself , and that's the one thing that I was facing quite a while ago , still kind of going through . It is the burnout Because Kevin was saying , oh yeah , they see you all the time off and you can come and go as you want .
No , when you own a business like I , only have to work half the day yeah Right , it's which half , Like you know which ?
12 hours out of the day , do I want to work ? That's where I'm working part time , you know .
So a lot of times it's like six , seven days a week , a day off , since I can't remember when . I know it was sometime in september , like way early september , yep . But you , you really don't think about that . You're like you know I got a business , these are my operating hours , yeah , those are the hours your doors are open .
But you know you're doing purchasing , you're getting boats , you know , whatever the case may be , to run your business it's like I'm the accountant , the marketing guy , the instructor , like I did that funny little video on um , on instagram that I put up the full house intro and like I love that , but I mean that's what I feel like .
You're like , I'm the custodian , the , the cwi , the electrician , the maintenance tech , the marketing director , like all the sweeper the floor sweeper like all this , but that's , that's what nobody sees with the business . You know , they see , oh , you know like I had so many people reach out when I opened up my school .
They're like , hey , I'm thinking about you know setting up my own school . You know here and you know doing the same thing up in this area , and it's like good luck , man .
They're like , well , you know , what can I do to to to get that set up and yourself and make sure that you're ready to do this , because if you're not , you put all that time , money and energy and effort into it and you don't have the the drive to keep it going .
It's gonna fail and the problem , you know the problem with that is too , that once it fails if it does fails , then you feel even worse because now you're afraid of making that next step on anything . So now you're like , oh man , I don't want to go because you , like you said , you know , you just go and yeah , I can do this , jason did it .
But they don't know all the other things that go behind . Well , failure is a part of it .
It is right , like there's a part of it , like it's uh , when you're in business , one thing you can't do is hand off responsibility to somebody else , because it's always your fault . No matter what happens , it's your fault . Yep , right . So when you work for someone , you can be like oh , where's my clamps ? Right . Oh , my boss sucks , where's my clamps ?
when you work for yourself , yeah yeah , yeah , now I gotta take an hour of my day to go buy clamps . Now I'm behind on that for something I didn't think about in advance . And you just start piling on those responsibilities two in the sit up . So you're like oh , did I remember to do that ?
Yep .
You know , and then that constant feed of information that'll come in and out of you all day long . It's extremely tiring .
It is 100% . But even with that being said , I think we're in the best era ever meaning so it's still the easiest era for you to just open your own business also everything from everything from your phone . I mean you can pretty much do anything here .
Back in the day when you looked at everything , you had to go to the bank , you had to do all these things . Like you actually have to go there physically and do something right now it's like what are you doing ? Just opening a company , setting up my tax thing , doing my whole ?
thing , I just order all my website . Yeah , yeah , correct . So within depositing checks going to go to the bank right there , virtually I know .
So it is easy on that side of the things , but still not easy on running , even if you set that whole thing up .
So well , skill , skill doesn't make the business well correct . Right , skill is just a tiny piece of it , because there's the brand , there's the marketing . I'm old enough that my first business had to buy radio . Yeah , I mean and a radio ad was like 20 grand to get 30 seconds twice a week . That's wow , yeah . And like what do you do with it ?
We went it's welding , yeah . Like yeah , come on down , I'll do stuff what I don't know .
Whatever you need , I guess like but like how do you ?
how do you do that ? As a small one , I always told people when I was younger , like you want to start a welding business , like million dollars . Now I think it's that's not true anymore . No , that's not true anymore .
Before you needed a million dollars , the footprint , the machinery , and you needed to be ready to vote for six months because you're not making anything .
Yep , now I think you can have a welder in your garage , you can actually start doing blueprints , you can get solid works , you can do everything on your own and you can run a business at your house for a tent right .
We were on our way here and I got a phone call about a clarification on an estimate in the Uber from the airport here and I went on my phone phone and I just wrote up something and sent it over to them and I looked back at the guys I was like what did they do ? Like , how could like , how did they ?
they had like if they needed a clarification on the big like like they , they would , they would mail you blueprints and you'd look at them and then you'd mail them back . Yes , there's no clarification . Oh , you want it in writing . I want to drive across town and drop this off facsimile , yeah yeah , but yeah like , how did they run it ?
Like it's so easy , slowly .
They ran it slowly , yeah , yeah , and it was the pace .
We didn't have the automation we didn't have the tooling , it was slow , but everything was yeah right now everything's fast , but you gotta be fast yeah , and I think you know just going back to how easy some things are now , I think I usually because I get that question asked a lot from you know a lot of the young person when I'm at a school or something .
They're trying to open their own thing and I go
¶ Business Growth Strategies and Competition
. Well , the first thing that I would ever recommend lock your , your name up , register that name , get your social media platforms and get that there , even if it just stays there dormant for a year . You already know that that's the name you like by your website . Correct . Now you have that .
Slowly , that is going to be the brick and mortar of whatever you do next , but you don't need what ?
a couple hundred dollars just to do that maybe yeah , 75 bucks , yeah , so that what a couple hundred dollars just to do that , maybe 75 bucks , yeah .
So so that's the one thing , let's start with that , and just that's how you see spend 75 hundred dollars , and then you can just slowly all right , I have a name , maybe I can let me add something more , let me you know , and so on , so on . That's the first thing that I usually tell anyone ?
yeah , I was thinking ark dunkers for my next one it's yeah good quality stuff there .
It's probably available actually , yeah yeah it's definitely available , yeah , yeah yeah , dot net or dot com , but I mean , you guys are talking about the benefits of a cell phone , because everything's instantaneous now and I mean that's that's great for operating the business here . I can check my emails on the fly review .
Prints on the fly schedule classes or on the brain oh , it is , it is , and it's super distractive too . you know , like I , I turned all my notifications off because I got that OCD thing to where I see a red thing and I got to click on it . Yeah , you know a little red dot with a couple of numbers there . I got to check this .
I got to check this and , like I started slowly weeding out some of the stuff that I the unnecessary tasks . But you know , having instant access to this information , it also builds a lot of stress , because now I need information right now , so when ? I send an email to a client .
I need a response right now , and if I'm not getting it , it's like Dude , what are you doing ?
Come on , man , check your email .
Send it back Like I got to do . That's the best thing I did , like three months ago . We went on vacation . I took my email push notifications off and , yes , there is an anxiety when you see an email and you swipe past it and you're at home and you're like I want to read it .
I don't have that skill yet I want to read it , but then , on the flip side , turning them off , there's an anxiety there knowing that , like I should check my email , I should check my am I missing something ? And like I've dropped the ball on things , like things that I should have responded that like am I missing something ?
And like I've dropped the ball on things , like things that I should have responded that day , which I usually would , and that's how I built my entire business is great customer service , correct , like JMW is good customer service with a side of welding and fabrication . So me dropping the ball , which is really just getting back to them tomorrow .
You know my customers are just getting back to them tomorrow . You know I , my customers are slowly getting used to that , but it has made me so much more present at home . It has reduced so much stress in my life . I can really think clear now because , like I'm kind of I'm all over the place . I'm the big ideas guy .
I've got seven big ideas I want to work on and no time for any of it . Like I need to pay bills and keep payroll going , so it's really hard for me to stay focused , so being able to just not have notifications and like an email thread for every you know , over the next two hours that could have been a phone call .
I can actually get something done in that time .
You know it's just crazy , because once you create that quick persona , you know like hey , I'm the quick responder . You know like hey , you send me something I'm like there , and then a few years in you go like I don't want to be that person anymore . But now everyone else is expecting that out of you , right ? It's like what the is Frank doing ?
Like it's been two hours .
You know he hours , you know he hasn't answered anything . Yeah lazy , yeah so now .
Then you feel that pressure and you're like damn , like I guess I I should answer yeah , yeah , I think one of the best things I've done I've read that , uh , 40 hour work week from tim paris or whatever yeah is I put an auto reply for the first time , like I never do auto reply because as soon as I get an email , boom , I'm responding .
Right , I'm johnny on the spot . I'm tired of being johnny like I got other shit to do . I put that auto reply on especially for the testing center , because I go back and forth and answer these ridiculous mundane questions all the time . I need a certified welder In what . So , like now , when somebody emails me , it's great .
It says you know , hey , due to the high volume of work , you know I check my emails at this time and I'll have a response here . If you send an email after this time , you know I'll reply back to you in 24 hours . And then , oh yeah , by the way , if you're looking for wealth certification , here's all the information I need .
And that has weeded out 90% of my emails , because now customers and clients are like oh , let's send him all this information . Now I've got everything . I don't have to have this preliminary back and forth . And dot , dot , dot , dot , dot dot . You know like what code are you testing to you code ? Are you testing to what standard ? How do you need this done ?
When do you need it ? Type of material position process , all that stuff , and that just helps so much with all the mundane emails , with the testing center at least , and you put that in your autoresponder . It's in my autoresponder .
Thank you for your email . Please send us all this .
Oh , that's so good it is .
It would probably take me about an hour to set my auto-response , because I haven't done that in 20 years I had the .
YouTube I had the .
YouTube . I was like how do I set auto-response ?
It's actually really Really . Well , sure , I guess you do it a lot .
Huh , I do , I was going to say you want to work for your future self . You want to work for your future self . You said it yourself . When I started , I wanted to reput everything . That's because you got the time right . As you start getting more busy and you start getting bigger . Analyze your yeah .
You don't have the time right .
Once you start getting to having 200 people on your shop floor , or 1,000 people where you're like . I manage 70,000 members , 18 franchises , two divisions at a company . I am not replying within an hour , right . But you set up those expectations .
The auto replies and this is what I tell my staff all the there's no one dying on an operating table because I didn't get their handrail quote to them today , right . And then , when you have been on site long enough , you also know that that customer was freaking out on you to get it right now .
It's just going to go sit in some yard for three weeks before it goes anywhere . So let's be realistic about what we do , let's be realistic about who we are and then make those expectations clear with the customer . Yep On it , we're busy . We'll get back to you as soon as possible , right ?
Yep , yeah , that totally makes sense . And just to change subjects a little bit on that so how do you , when you started your business , and for every one of you , and whether we work for someone else or something how do you go about the competition ? Do you pay a lot of attention to what the competitors are doing ?
Competition do you pay a lot of attention to what the competitors are doing ? How do you price yourself ? No , um , and you're just like , hey , you do you , boo-boo , I do me and it is what it is .
There's more than enough work out there . I you know . But people are like , oh , do you know this company and this guy ? I'm like yeah , I've heard of them , like what do they do ? I don't really know . Like I , I stay in my lane , I put my head down and we do good work . We price , price it well . We give really good customer service .
That'll speak for itself . So I don't really pay any attention , pricing wise or what they do .
I really don't pay much attention to the competition , especially when it comes to , like , the testing center , because the school is is very unique . There's only like three people in the in the U S that are doing it , so I get . I mean the school practically sells itself . You know it's the only short-term training program that's open year-round .
I know a couple other pop open , like you know , for one or two weeks out of the summer , but my school's open year-round . But when it comes to the testing center I know I don't know what my competition is doing .
I know where their price point kind of is , because I hear from other people they're like well , I can go over to this company and get it done cheap .
Have at it man .
Go ahead . I know I'm not the cheapest in town , but I've got awesome customer service and I've got a great turnaround and I'm highly accurate with what I do . But if you want to get it cheaper somewhere else and not get that service , have at it . You want to save a hundred bucks ? Go right down the road .
I do not care because there's 10 people behind you that want to pay for my service .
Establishing your brand is everything . Who are you , what is your business ? Customer service with a side of welding and fabrication . Love it , love it , right ? You have these pieces where what's my brand ? People will come for that . They don't care . You don't go to McDonald's and ask for a whopper . That's not a thing . No one cares , right .
Go to mcdonald's because you want a big mac . So why do people go to gmw ? They want gmw products and services , awesome good art junkies or underground metal works , because that's what you want . When I had my shop , custom brackets custom bracket it's kind of a niche thing , but everyone can make brackets .
Anybody can go make a bracket thing , but I got known for it , so then you run with it , right . It's just the thing that you get to do . So once you establish that brand , the money's not really the deciding factor .
Yeah , right that it's very rarely that someone comes back on a quote and says can you knock this down 15 bucks , like that's not the game we're in , right ?
and I , and and if you set your business up and not chase those people , they don't usually come around . Because if you set your business up to not chase those people , they don't usually come around . Because when I first started out , I wanted to only work with good customers .
Business is so much easier when you have people who enjoy buying from you and working with you and vice versa . They pay on time , the conversations are better , it's a lot less stress and I have those . But now we are focusing more on people who buy on value and quality rather than price .
And if you really chase after that work and have that in your mindset and be able to politely fire the bad customers , business is so much easier .
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start filling your cart with welder confidence that's actually what's going to be my next question . How do you fire a custom like hey , we're not a fed , it doesn't matter what I do or what you do , we just can work together . So how have you ever had those two ?
you have a red light above your door . You turn it on when they come in .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , right , the chair , the flipping chair , yeah yeah , I've , actually I've straight .
I'll straight up tell them we've
¶ Lessons Learned in Business Negotiations
. We had a company by us , um , they do paving and things and he , you know they're , they were just they're trying to pull one of them and I didn't see it the first time . I went out there and I gave him the bill and I told him I was up front with the pricing , this and that , and I said , okay , well then pay me what you think it was worth .
You would never do that now , I would never do that now , no , no , no , no . So I gave him a ballpark quote of what it was and then he added things on . And then I was he's like , well , you told me this . I'm like , yeah , but you didn't . But he's like it's no big deal . I'm like you know what ? I'm not very confrontational like that .
All right , I'm going to be the . I told you the price . You were the one who added more onto this . Fine , I'll take the hit on this . And then he called me up . I think his son called me . His son hired me . And then the father called me a few months later oh , we're over here doing this . I'm like , oh , your son's this , yeah , yeah , yeah .
I said you know what ? We had a really bad experience with you guys . There was a lot of integrity issues on your end with you guys . Um , there was a lot of integrity issues on your end and I don't think we're interested in working .
and he totally got it like really , yeah , like he's , like he knows this kid , yeah , he's like understood understood and there's some people who , even with when you , when you email us all us and you need something , melissa is the first person that you get , and if you are , you can sense it she's the gatekeeper .
And she's a really good gatekeeper and there have been times where it seems like a good job and they're like can I talk to who's in charge ? She's like it's me . Well , I need to talk to the guy there , right , and I'm like she's like well no you can't talk to Kevin .
And one time they actually found my number and contacted me instead and she told me that I put two and two together and I told him I'm like look , this isn't going to work out just from right now . I'm like you cannot disrespect anybody in my company , let alone my wife . No , go somewhere else . Sorry , I've had to take people to court man In business .
I've had to take people to court man in business I've had to take people to court , and that's .
That's just what a waste of time yeah what a waste of time to string something out for a few thousand bucks . But basically I worked for a guy . This is what I was doing my hollywood stint , where I was building cars for hollywood and I was working for this film company and they asked for like 40 some cars .
So you're in deep on all these cars and they got the movie . Movie got canceled , gotcha right , so they don't need .
We don't need it .
Yeah , we don't need it we don't need these 40 cars , we don't need all this stuff . And we had a contract that all been signed . So I'm like went the guy who contracted me and I was like well , you still owe me the money . I did my job . Like done . You have 38 novas and two Suburbans Like what am I supposed to do with that ?
And they're like no , I didn't get paid , so you don't get paid . And I was like I can't , what ? Like I don't understand how that thought process works . And I had to chase them down to court . Years later I got paid . But man , like you don't ever want to get put in those terrible situations . Yeah .
You know , that's a good point actually , because when you have a business like , when do you think about a contract , when do you think about hey , let me cover myself to make sure that I got all the checkboxes on my belt , just in case something like that happened . So when you first start , you say yes to everything , exactly .
It's like oh , I'm just excited he's willing . Oh my God , he looked at me . Wow , yeah , thank you . All right . And then you got to go through something like that . And then just , oh crap , well , and you think like that's just the end product .
Then you go home pissed off and you think about the hours you lost with staff yeah , the jobs you didn't take . That could have been floor plan and then you just like you start spiraling , being like should I even own a business again ? That was a big mistake . How could I do that ? How do you trust somebody ?
And it's like those those mistakes are they're big learning lesson .
You can look at my progression of through business through the terms .
I could add it to the end of my right , I know right , it was a half a sheet . That was like five pages . You know what ?
I'm gonna add that in there and it just , it just keeps growing . Every time something goes wrong , you know lesson learned . Lesson learned is going on the quote we did the same thing .
We actually made a big plaque that said custom is full pay period yeah if it's all , if it's all , if it's a blueprint run of the mill , we can work terms . But if you're asking me to do custom work where I'm like not something I normally do , this is something I'm pulling guys aside to work on .
This is up front , like you're paying for it up front , like it is what it is Progress payments .
Progress payments are a huge thing and I didn't know that when I first started , because I would just . I didn't know that asking for a deposit was a normal thing .
I felt like weird about it , because like I just didn't have the money .
I'm like I need like a thousand bucks to buy your material , like to get started . Yeah , To get started and I'm like . I'm like all nervous and asking for it . It's a normal thing . Now you know you can do 30 .
You take PayPal . Yeah , I'll film . Yeah , right , yeah , I'll take the coin . They're waiting for that question but but that's that .
That's a good point . So , for example , the manufacturing company that I work for , you know , every once in a while we do a lot of things custom made for certain people and of course we have the catalog items , those are the abc items , so on , and every so often you have someone hey , can you make me this one thing with that other thing ?
I'm like great sure , of course we can make anything . I need 75 percent down . Yeah , I'm like what , wait , what ?
no yeah you know .
So those are the things that you learn sometimes , even when you work for somebody else that , oh , that's how that system works , so , and then you apply that to the stuff when you are going on your own and you just want to like oh , I'm gonna just copy and paste a lot of things , right ? Yeah ?
I was fortunate because when I started my mobile welding business I had a really good mentor that was getting out of the mobile welding business game and retiring . So he actually gave me a couple of his clients and he told me up front you get 50% down for the cost of the material , depending on the job .
That way , if I go to buy the material and all of a sudden the customer is like , yeah , you know what , we're not going to do that anymore . Now I'm holding all this material I've got to build something with it anymore . Now I'm holding all this material . I got to build something with it .
The manufacturer's not or the company's not going to take it back , so get 50% down , or at least the cost of the material . So the one project I was going to do was a grill . I built that Santa Maria cooking grill on worldcom and this guy reached out to me . He's like man , I want one of those .
I need two of them and I was like , okay , cool , Cool , yeah , I can do that . And he's like I need them out of stainless steel . Oh what ? All right .
I was like okay , I was like the price just tripled .
All right , okay , okay , okay , he's like send me a quote . I was like , okay , here's the price on both . Oh yeah , it's not going to work for me .
Maybe my brother like 25 percent less because you guys know once you start once you build something , it's easier to build multiple than it is the first one , right , um , and so , you know , I was like here's the price . He's like , okay , that's doable . And I was like , all right , I need 50 down , or . You know that .
You know which was essentially the cost of material . Yeah , he's like that's not doable well , it took him like two to three days to respond and he's like yeah I'm not gonna be able to swing this one man like , okay , cool , yeah , I'm not good I'm gonna go yeah , good , yeah , you go home .
Depot gonna get a weber but if like firing clients , going back to that , like I fire clients through price point oh , so you know , so I know that they're gonna be a pain in the gotcha . So I add , I add that additional fee , like we've all seen it on the wall .
You know it's . Yeah , if I , if I do the wall you know it's like 50 bucks an hour .
You know , if you watch it's $75 . If you help , it's $100 .
Like .
I do the same thing because it's like you're paying the client . Here's your pricing . I give them custom pricing to price myself out of the work .
So I've tried that before . So the other day someone came to me and said hey , by the way , I need this one thing and it's a very good friend of actually all of us , and uh , so I kind of priced no no yep , so you know , they said hey , I need this one thing and I said , okay , cool , and I really wasn't into it .
I'm like that's just gonna add so much more work to me . I'm like , hey , the only way I can do that is I need a hundred of them , and and it's this price , without a blink . Okay , dang it .
Shoot , but now it's actually worth it . I know right . It'll be worth it if they say yes .
I know . So now I'm like , oh okay , I should be doing that
¶ Business Growth and Payroll Expansion
more often .
Yeah , we've got a line item . It's called the PETA line item . The pain in the ass pack , yeah , and really that's not out of being a jerk and not wanting to do it , it's people need their handheld . And you can tell when they're on the phone that they are high strung and it costs time , Like it takes my time .
Therefore , I need to bill for that time and you can call it , you know , management fees or hand-holding or whatever . I just put pain in the ass with that . Because I know it's going to be a pain in the ass .
I'm going to get a lot of emails and phone calls and I'm going to have to do a lot of back and forth , and it's not wrong to charge for that . Time is time .
Yeah .
Time is time , 100% . And what about when you are growing and you're still scared of bringing people in and you know you're looking at the oh , I've grown 25% , 20% . Maybe I can actually invest on somebody else and so I can just do less or just focus on business and not work , right ?
So when do you think that it's the right timing to add somebody else to the payroll ? When you're first starting a company ?
For me , it was the right time that I had catalog items and so I had things that were recurring bills . You know , like I said , bracket , I knew that I was going to sell 150 of those every month . I'd been doing it for six months . I have contracts two years out . That deserves a step . That's not me . I can do that now .
I can bring someone in and they can just start covering small chunks of responsibility on me .
So you haven't made the money yet but you just know it's coming .
I think that if you're waiting to make the money before you expand , you're not going to get there .
Okay .
I think it goes by the hours . When I was doing 60 , 70 , 80 hours a week , I realized I'm like I could keep 40 hour full-time person busy and I dipped my toe in and you know I hired a part-time guy and then he would come in .
You know I'd work around his schedule because he worked somewhere else and then he was busy enough that I'm like , hey , man , do you want to come full-time ? And then it grew from there and that was more like material processing , wire wheeling , priming , painting , things like that .
And from there , after he was full time , I worked in a deal with another part-time guy and then he would come in , you know , three , five , six hours a day after he was done his other job , three , five , six hours a day after he was done his other job . And then I hired another full-time .
So really it's when you can keep somebody , when you're doing 60 , 70 , 80 hours a week , that's another 40 hours for somebody else .
And then that also frees up your schedule to keep moving the business forward , the ball rolling in the right direction , instead of you running out and getting hardware , you sitting there wire wheeling everything so that you can put primer on it . The ball rolling in the right direction .
Instead of you running out and getting hardware , you sitting there , wire wheeling everything so that you can put primer on somebody else to do it .
You know , I'm in that spot right now and I'm actually waiting to be able to afford it to hire somebody on are you ?
yeah , I find that to be . It holds you back it .
It does , but I have to be able to justify being able to bring somebody on perfect because I . Because I've already got , you know , loans out , you know , through the bank to when we purchased the school .
So , like .
my overhead throughout the month is $8,000 to break even , you know so to bring somebody else on and be responsible for that . If I can't generate the additional business and income now , I'm screwing somebody else over when I started my first business , I did something really stupid that worked out .
I took no loans . I literally started with a $300 , it was 140 foot square piece of a shop that I just had to work table and a welder and I just started organically growing . So I was never behind the ball right .
So when I could hire it was because I was just busy enough and then I could hire , and then when I grew it's because I already had the work . So I was never caught in a point where I owed someone my money before I made it which was a luxury .
Yeah , you weren't in a very lucky place .
But that takes time , right , and most people don't want to put that time into growth . They want to get bigger quicker , and it's doable , sure , but you need the capital and it's hard to now you got this number sitting over your head . You got to hit all the time .
You need that capital , that was a big thing where the jobs would come in and they were bigger and , yeah , it's awesome was a big thing where I , the jobs would come in and they were bigger and , yeah , this is awesome . And instead of taking like a week to push out the door and send invoices , a month , well , I'd need .
I've one , two , three , four , five people on payroll . I'm not getting , I'm not sending an invoice for 30 . I need to cover their payroll , not for only that 30 days , but the 30 days after that until I get that check in . And I put myself in a few bad spots because I just didn't take enough money down .
I didn't foresee that and that really put me in a you know , just because you think it's , you know what this is , a great job it's . You know , when it's just you and one guy , it's like , oh , $30,000 . Great yeah .
But you know what ? I don't have to work for five months , yeah .
Yeah , and then it's like , oh well , $5,000 in material and then you have to process it and you have to pay the powder coater and the paint and the material and keep all the bills paid . Yeah , so you have to be careful . If you don't have the available , the available capital to float that you just need to grow real , incremental .
Yeah , yeah , when it's coming in , when everything's coming out of your you know your bank , it's your own wallet , yeah , you really just second guess every single decision . You know it's not as easy as I work for someone now , hey , we need this , sure , go ahead . You know , hey , I just I just walk in , clock in , clock out and go home .
But so the first business I lost it was a combination of me not trusting anyone and also because I was forking everything , of course , just like most of us here , when we first start and eight months in , I think , the pressure of just doing it all by myself , not trusting anyone . And then you add , yeah , money situation as well .
You're like oof , dude , I'm just my divorce , my family , everything's just gonna gonna go out the door . Because now you are just looking for a trigger , like anything that anybody says what , what , let's go right now . You're always just mad about everything it just answers it just . Everyone pays the price around you yep , then I'm talking about capital .
If you're getting ready to start your business . Aside from the expenses of operating the business , what do you think you should have as far as capital when you're first setting up and some of the other things that go along with setting up the business ?
So you think , capital to start what kind of business ? Or also just to cover you for a certain amount of time ?
What's that magic number ? I was three months . I was always three months , okay .
Would never try to get under three months
¶ Business Cash Flow and Customer Reviews
. If I was getting close to that three-month line , it'd be like , okay , I personally got to get out there and find some jobs or bring some stuff in or start figuring it out , because it would be sometimes 90 days before I get paid on big jobs , that would you know .
You're looking at 400 , you know , or 40 dollars a month wages , yeah right , so if you don't got that in the bank account , for me it was always number one take care of my staff . I'm not gonna miss paying them , even if I don't pay myself .
Oh , yeah , right happens a lot .
It happens a lot when you start .
I actually started working a night job during some of my tight times because I'm running my shop and I was like you know what , I'm gonna go work for a welding shop at night , pulling trigger to bring in a steady income , just to make sure I don't ever fall behind that line , right ?
what do you ? What's yours frank when you're running yours like , what was that that magic number for in months , not dollar amount ?
yeah , correct , so you know . So right now I still have a business in the market , a distributorship , and definitely three to six months is usually . But I also think it has to do with what kind of business , because if the overhead is very high and you know let's say , oh , I need $20,000 .
All right , well , that's $100,000 if you want to cover five , six months , right ? So not everyone has that just laying there . So the type of business is also going to determine how far you can go . Has that just laying there ? So the type of business is also going to determine how far you can go . But minimum , at least three months .
Right now I'm forking , I'm on the losing end , you know , because right now everything's coming out of wallet and all that first , all that cash that I had is kind of gone . So I gotta make some decisions on what I have there . But yeah , it's , it's magic numbers . Like I wish I had a year , you know . Yeah , what about you ?
kip . So when I first started it I was kind of semi-forced into starting because he's like how could ? How can I help you go on your own I never had a number get out of here ,
I , I I are you sure you don't want to start a ?
business you need to go to another table .
Yep yep , yeah , I . I never had a magic number , it was um , I just kept on grinding , grinding , grinding as long as , as long as there was money there , like leader league grinding , well , both . Sometimes , Grinding for days , Welding for days yeah , so I don't have a good answer for that . I would say three months is kind of it's comfortable .
It's comfortable Like you can have some wins and losses and still be able to pay yourself your mortgage , not put your family in a bad spot , and you know knowing your numbers is really important , like short-term disability as a business owner .
If I'm out I'm screwed Like I'm the guy that's running all this stuff . You know , especially if you have an employee or several employees , you need a good buffer . I think six months is if you can get up to that . I mean , that's something that you know . If things go off well you got to work towards it .
But I think six months is like a really good cushion to have . You know , just just in case , like I I said , short-term disability , you fall ill , you know something happens .
Um , a lot of the business owners I talked to they say that like six months is right around that sweet spot I mean it's you're gonna play trying to get it , but once you get it there , try to keep that there . You know so you , you always have that that good buffer , and you can still operate your business .
You got money coming in . You're talking about bringing in one more staff yeah your six months drops three months months .
Yeah , right , there Right there .
One staff .
Then I got to build back up to that , six months , that's right , because as soon as you start bringing in more people , they start halving at it . Right , they start taking out of that pie .
But one of the other things when you bring someone in , it's not just about the money . Now you have to make sure that they bought that you know . Hey , they're going to represent the company in the right way , because those six months , or whatever work you've done before , one single person within a month can really ruin everything .
Oh yeah , you can't be a geek off the street . You've got to be pretty handy with the steel . That's good .
But yeah , your reputation , man . You know , at the end of the day you've worked so hard to just make something out of your name , your brand , whatever it is , and someone just comes in and just bad customer service , whatever it is , and now everything you've done is like , ah , out the door , start from zero again . So that's the other part why we all fear .
It's not just about the money all the time .
Yeah , one of the things we do with our guys is , you know , to help represent , having them know that the customers are watching them . We have an outstanding thing in our shop where , if their name gets mentioned in a Google ad review , they get $50 . So that way they help represent our company well , because it also benefits them too .
We do want to do a profit bonusing down the road , but in it's , you know , in the short term , that's . That's . That's how we're doing it now are you betting these ?
reviews or is uh dylan having all his high school buddies right ? A review is a review a five-star review is a five-star review so , but that's a good point that you bring that up , because do you guys actually ask your customers , hey , or make it easier for them the QR code ? Hey , please give me a five-star review and things like that .
I do surveys Because it goes a long way .
I kind of overdo it , because the software that we have for the school because that's where I'm worried about my reviews , but the testing , center is all word of mouth . But with the school , you know , I always ask them on friday , you know , if you like the class , you enjoy yourself , please get on . So you know , get on google , leave us a review .
And I've actually had . You know , we asked day one how did you find out about the school ? You know , why did you decide to come here ? And a lot of them say it's , it's because your reviews are phenomenal .
But the thing is so like , when they , when they schedule a week-long class , it schedules five different sessions so , oh , sunday night , I've reviewed , so . So hold on sunday sunday night they get hey , you know , you're scheduled for this . You know session it starts monday morning , be there at eight . Here's everything you need to know .
And then , when they leave the class that day at 5 pm , they get hey , you know , how did you enjoy the class , please ? You know , leave us a review . And then they get another email hey , you're scheduled for you know a class tuesday here's , you know , be there at eight o'clock . So they get these every single . So tell them .
You know , like first day of class . Sorry for all the emails , just disregard them . Just show up at every day , you know , at eight , and don't leave a review till Friday once you've been through the full class . But it's because that software we use . It breaks it up into five individual sessions instead of a week long , but we over-ask them .
But by Friday they always remember to leave a review .
Oh , for sure , for sure . Do you get any bad ones though ?
I have not .
So how is that ?
helpful . How is that helpful ? Because you want . You need bad ones .
I think I know what you're trying to say .
Right , you need to know what you're doing wrong ? Well , I do . If everything's good , that's what we do .
We actually coached our guys on how to ask for reviews , and all jobs are not five-star jobs . Things just happen . I won't even ask somebody unless I know they're going to give us a five-star review .
No , really , that's not fair , and well , we only want five stars . I don't want 4.7 4.9
¶ Business Growth Strategies and Marketing Tactics
.
I want five star , like we've got 40 , 50 like five star reviews and what we say is listen , if and I coach my guys because that they have they have a stake in this game also because they get 50 bucks if their name is benji , if both two names are mentioned , that's $100 , right , that's a $100 review .
But we say if you feel that we earn five stars , please give us five stars . I'm going to send you the link right now . Just click on it and it automatically pops up . If you feel for any reason we don't deserve five stars , please let us know and we will earn that fifth star .
That way we're subliminally telling them we don't want you to leave a four star , I only want five stars . And that's how and that's how we've done it . I'd rather have , I'd rather have less reviews and all five stars and we've got compliments .
They're like all the other welders out there in our area because , like you know I think it's it really helps with ranking google locally . He's a welder near me , you know . Jmw fabrication has like 45 star reviews . The closest one is like 4.5 and they have like 14 reviews you know .
So it really helps us rank , you know , and and that's a great point too and hey , if it works for you , who are we to say that it's not working ?
Yeah .
You're getting it .
Yeah .
But in today's world , with how much , well , how easy it is to just use social media for free . Do you guys actually also pay for ads , or recommend ?
I pay for ads you do , yeah , a lot of money Really .
How much ?
No , we're about . We spend about $1,600 a month in actual Google ads and then another $1,500 on somebody to manage it .
Oh , really yeah , oh , all right , yeah I mean it's .
We run through social media because that's like where our target audience is hanging out . So every couple of weeks , you know , especially when we release a new class schedule or you know like the classes aren't filling up fast enough , you know I'll reach out to Audrey and say hey , you know , put a , put a $250, .
You know , put it at , put an ad together , put 250 bucks over the course of two weeks and boom like within . I'd say Gotcha , same for you .
Google Ads .
All right , we're .
Google , meta , and then for the business side .
We're on LinkedIn . I need to learn the Google part . I need to get on that one .
Yeah , yeah , it's getting a lot of pull .
I get a lot of retirees that come into the program and I know they're not finding me through Instagram . It's all word of mouth .
Yep and they're to say I know enough to be dangerous , but I'm not good . So like I'm kind of a pain when it comes to , like you know , I had somebody run my Google ads before and they tanked them and I was doing better just by myself . And recently I and recently , two months ago I hired a firm Really well recommended .
According to them , they've never lost a client . Nobody's ever left .
Only five Only five .
Now we get it Now , we get it yes .
Method is madness .
So I'm trusting them to do it and we've got it set up and we've got to implement it , and there's a lot of ways to really hone in on who you're looking for Because , like they did an analysis on what our Google ads were , who they were serving- to the personas .
Yeah .
And most of our ads were going to the bottom 50% of the money earned , like $50,000 and less . That's not our clientele , so they somehow raised the bar on the backend . So now we're getting less traffic , but it's more qualified traffic and they have more money to spend . Gotcha .
Yeah , I totally get it . So tell me because I said earlier how what I I think and usually what I tell someone that wants to serve is hey , just get your names first and all that , but give me your top five things in order that you guys think that you have an idea .
Do these one , two , three , four , five things first I can't do it in priority , but the first thing I would say is is sit down and write yourself an honest business plan . Write it down .
Write it down when we go ahead , there's actually online business plan templates yeah , download one , read it , try to fill it in and see if you're up your butt . You know , like , really see if , like you know what you're talking about Gotcha Kevin .
Hey , like , first of all , first off , if you want to do it like , do you really want it ? Okay , find your niche . Find your niche that you like . We did everything across the board and we did it . Well , I did it . But hiring for that is really hard and it's hard to find those guys . So , find your niche , stick with it .
Treat it like like I said before , like we are in the customer service business with a side of welding . Everybody wants to work with somebody who is easy to work with , is honest , has good value for what they charge . And evaluate that in yourself and go after that demographic and price yourself well .
Build your structure of your business , as in insurance and your accountants , and have a goal of where you're going to go before you start . Have a goal of where you're going to go before you start . Like , let other people do what they are that and you stick with what you're good at . Don't try to do it all . I made that mistake .
Don't do it and you're gonna do it poorly . Yeah , don't even try .
Yeah yeah , for sure , for sure .
Oh , you're in that same line , jason yeah , like , like I said , like set up a solid business plan . There's Max was saying , there's templates online . When we went to go purchase underground metalworks , this was the cool thing . We had to go to a bank and I was , like you know , felt like that little , what's the guy's name , please .
So I had a business plan from when I set up my mobile welding business , Metal Trends . We have this thing called the South Lake Business Development Center , or whatever SBDC , and so that guy sat down with me when I built that and I never did anything with that business plan , but I had an awesome template to start with .
So I just started pulling everything into that business plan . When we set up Underground Metalworks and that was the one thing that set us apart to be able to get that loan they were very apprehensive about giving us a loan just because they're like we don't know if this concept's going to work .
Nobody else is doing this , you don't have a proven track record of running a business and none of that . But when I walked in I handed each one of them in it , Like I took it down to Staples and got like legit nice .
Gotcha .
And the guy goes , goes , what's ?
this I said it's a business plan , wow .
And I've worked at this bank for 15 years . Nobody's brought me a business plan . That's a great start . So he opened it up and he's like holy . He's like this is like really nice , this is legit , yep . And he went through all the finances and the numbers , like everything that's in there , and he goes . I think we can work with it , wow .
Wow , that was the biggest thing . I just got goosebumps . That's awesome Me too , but it's cool . Yeah , I'm in .
Canada right , so we've got some different things .
Up there we have this thing called the Business Development Bank of Canada , so it's the same type of thing . When I went to the bank thinking about business , they're like you need to get a business plan . I went down there and I , okay , I gotta get a business plan . Like we have templates cool .
You're like there's a two-week course that we offer on how to start a business really it's free , paid for the government you want to take it . I was like , of course you guys get a lot of free . We do . We pay a lot of taxes yeah so it's not free anymore yet , right . But so like I got kind of mentored I got .
They basically helped me write my business Two years , three years , five years projections , what my skill sets were , what we're planning on doing , how much money I need realistically . I was totally underselling myself . I thought I'd be like , oh , a hundred grand I can get rolling After doing the business plan .
They're like no , no , no , no , you need like 300 grand .
Get real .
You know what I , after he's doing the business plan , they're like no , no , no , you need like 300 grand , get real , you know . And I was like oh , damn , okay , like , let's do this , I'll be back and what about .
So now you have your business . Right now you have the business going on . When do you think that it's a good time to say , hey , this is not working ? I should pull the plug , like how long do you go ?
well , how many businesses have you tanked ? Well , I got two under my belt . Yeah , my third one took off . My first two were terrible .
Yeah , I've closed some up yeah .
But when do you make ?
that decision , like you know , what ?
It's six months , it's a year . How do you make that decision and why ?
I shut mine down because of a new opportunity . Okay , so that makes sense , I was getting to the point of my business where it was growing and it was like get off the pot . And I was kind of getting scared and it was like my next step is to hire an employee or take this opportunity .
And the opportunity provided me security and insurance and benefits and a steady paycheck , because the other part was the unknown . You know , I bring somebody else on now I'm responsible for him , his family and all this other stuff . Am I going to be able to keep pulling in work ?
So I was like I'm going to get into full-time teaching and I'm going to shut this business down , got
¶ Navigating Business Partnerships and Challenges
it .
I haven't shut down a business , but I've considered it a few times .
Daily .
If it's worth it . Do I truly enjoy this ? Do I want to do this ? Is it worth the trade-off for the time and freedom at what ? At that point it was really not time , freedom or money and um , but I still enjoyed it and I knew . I know it's in my blood . So I really had to think that .
There's been a few times and I've considered it , and if I go get a job somewhere else , I'm going to be miserable about three months . So I have a reputation , I have a skill , I have the tools . Let's just take a minute , let's reset and let's figure out how to do this the right way .
Yeah , in my case , the first time it took me too long , but because of you know , now you're judging like , hey , people are gonna failure , you know whatever . And your mind starts going off and you just actually just keep pulling money out of your check and you know I'm like , oh my god , now I'm ready , it's gonna turn around .
It's gonna turn around , it's gonna come back .
Nope , now I'm broke you're not in the right mindset . Yeah , it's the ego .
it's just like just let go , let go , just let go , when you know that even everything you've got is just not working .
Walt Disney went bankrupt nine times building that theme park 20 minutes from here .
Yeah .
Nine freaking times .
It depends . You've got to be passionate about it . That's why I said when you set up your business , you've got to have a heart-to-heart . Am I going to be able to see this through ? That heart am I ? Am I going to be able to see this through ? That's the biggest thing , especially , like you , we've all been through it . You know .
Do you know when you get to that point , I mean , there's a , there's not a day that goes by . That you know .
I think you know there's a lawnmower out there with my name on it , right , it'd be so much easier going to work for somebody else .
And it's like at the end of the day , I sit back and think to myself it's like you know what I fought and struggled and strived to do this . I'm going to keep pushing it through because it's going to get better .
This is what I asked for because , like Kevin said at the beginning of the episode , everybody sees the money , all the flashing stuff and this and that everything and the free time . I had all that for a while and then I opened up a business . But now it's like man , why did I give everything up ? And it's it's .
And I just shut this down and go back and work for somebody else , build everything back up . It's like , no , I'm gonna ride this till the wheels fall off I'm gonna push through ? yeah , because this is what I worked for got it . This is the hard part , you know , like I've , it's gonna get easier , you know I'm walking up the hill right now .
yep , I know it makes sense and it makes sense . I know you have a partner . What about bringing one ? When you are opening a business and you are taking those man , do I bring one in ? I just go on myself by myself , Is that easy ?
No Terrible .
Everybody .
I talk to when I was setting my business up , everybody told me , do not bring in a partner .
I got , I got ripped off , ripped off straight up a partner , that business . It was one of my failures . Trusted the wrong person , lost half my income lost , divorced , everything like everything collapsed . My whole life was over . I'd start from scratch .
So are you guys saying don't bring a partner ? Is that is that what you guys are saying ? Number one it can't be family .
Definitely not family , do not do family .
Number one , number two they got to have a steady income from wherever they're coming from . It's not just you , it's not just them coming in and say I'll pitch in 30 grand in my time and we'll do this An angel investor . No , no , no , no , no , no , no . You're already a millionaire and you got some cash to help me out . We got a dream .
We can work this out , Maybe no . That's where your situation is right . But you got to be real careful because if it's your skill that's making the business run , that's your skin in the game . Correct Cash is not skin in the game .
Yeah , right , right , yeah , the game correct . Cash is not skin in the game .
Yeah , right , yeah I . I was always told the only ship that's made to sink is the partnership . And I've seen it . I like that . No , no I . I love that .
I've been around a lot of business owners my entire life . In all the different I've seen one out of 150 , 200 people who I know for in .
I've seen one actually work and I even talked to the one partner and he feels slighted with a lot of his things he feels like he does more , but they have good defined roles and he gets the stuff done and his partner does all the finance . So it can work If you have good roles and responsibilities . I don't think I could ever do it .
Um , I'm just too hard . I I really call it the welder . I mean , go figure , I'm a little , I'm a little bit hard-headed a little stubborn , a little I'm a little you don't say uh , I'm a little stubborn . I'm I'm the big idea guy and it's hard for me to really implement things .
I'm really good at delegating , even when I need to go and actually implement it , gotcha . So I don't think a partnership would be good for me unless it's really really well-defined , because it's human nature . You always like , you know , when you're there at night and they're at home you're going to , the thought's going to come into your head .
You can either heed that thought or you can squash it . But if you do feel like you're slighted , it's going to grow . And if you have a good open line of communication and you can talk about it without being accusatory to the other person and saying , hey , this isn't working out and you're both compensated correctly , I could see it working .
I just don person and saying , hey , this isn't working out and you're both compensated correctly . I could see it working . I just don't know . How did you do that ?
Because , yeah , I know you're from day one , Jason , so that's your case from day one , right ? Yeah , I mean it's working . Rob kind of put in the bill to put everything back together and I get to entirely run everything and the best part is he's not pulling a paycheck . Oh hey .
Well , I won one of those , yeah right that kind of worked out for me , but I think that's a very unique situation not a lot of people are going to find themselves in . I definitely would not go into business with somebody else if it were a different set of circumstances , because you're always going to look out for number one . That's human nature .
And if they're looking out for number one , not the business that's going to affect me and my family 100% .
Yeah , I agree , I agree .
Well , gents , this has been a blast . I know Kevin's got to get out of here . We went a little bit over time , but we got to get him on his flight . Before we get out of here , let's do go around the table and tell everybody where they can find you . We'll start with Frankie .
So yeah , frank Vargas , torch Tales pretty much the name says it all on every one of the platforms , and you can find me at an airport or a plane or a rental car , or a lime scooter , there you go .
That's me , that's me .
Now you can find me and my team at JMW Fabrication . You can find the podcast Welding Business Owners Podcast . We're on Spotify , instagram , things like that . And you can find the Fabricator Olympics at fabricatorolympicscom .
Awesome . I'm at the Canadian Welding Bureau , cwb Group . We're like the AWS Canada , google us . The association's free membership and our podcast runs through there . Five-star reviews only .
Only , only five .
Not with 70,000 members man .
You can find me on uh ark junkies podcast on instagram or underground metalworks on instagram and tiktok . Um yeah , facebook as well . Underground metal , underground hyphen , metalworkscom if you want to check out the class schedules and arkjunkiescom . And you can stream the podcast on spotify , apple or apple podcast and any other popular streaming service well
¶ Welding Podcast - Education & Connection
, thank you guys .
Thank you for having me .
thank you guys , Thank you for having me .
Yeah , thank you guys . It's been great . It's always a pleasure .
We hope you enjoy the show .
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Produced by the cwb group and presented by max , this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community . Please subscribe and thank you for listening .