Urban Herbs with Andy Perry

I'd love to welcome you to Andy Perry. I just know Andy is Andy from Andy urban herbs. But I'd like him to introduce himself. So with no further ado, Andy, introduce yourself from urban herbs.

are foodies. But I think the reason why me and you've become friends is that actually, so many people now are actually interested in using the foliage of the herbs for floral flower arranging, and using the flowers themselves, because I'm very much hoping that we're going to talk about some of these amazing herbs that you can use in flower arrangements. Because so often we get messages from customers

asking about weddings. And you know, the idea of growing flowers for daughter's wedding or sister's wedding, maybe for your own wedding. It's become so popular now, isn't it? Yeah,

years. And therefore if you're setting up on your journey of a cutting patch, what can you get immediately, what can you get next year, and it always comes back to herbs. It absolutely revolves around herbs. So things like you know, lemon balm, all of the mints, or sage, rosemary Bay, I use them borage. I use them all. And then Vietnamese coriander, too. So we'll talk more about all of those in a minute. But they are definitely high up on my foliage lists.

things. So I studied a little bit of a course in horticulture. For those of you who know a bit about this, I studied for a national award in horticulture. And I did about three months of a one year course. Because actually, it's a bit of a secret Ross that I share on social media regularly but I had to drop out because I ran out of money. And basically, I had a

bit of rethink. And I decided the way to make my way in the world to make my fortune would be wait for it to study for a master's in the history of religion and Uh, yeah, to actually too tight to do the tuition fee for this course, you can't take a loan out for a master's. So it had to be self funded. And I came up with an unusual way of self funding. I did a business development course alongside the Masters free of charge at Birmingham

University. Thank you very much Birmingham. And I decided to build a polytunnel. And I would put up X number of her plants. And I'd sell them at a profit at local farmers markets, and I worked out how many blogs I'd need to pay for my tuition feed. And guess what? I submitted my thesis while I was at a farmers market. But the degree finished and I enjoyed it. But the ultimate truth is that I had a moment where I paused and I thought, actually, I've got a business here that's absolutely

thriving. I don't really need to apply for all these jobs. And I've got a business that I love. And so back in 2010, I said to my then, girlfriend, my now wife, I said, Shall I give it one more year. And I've been giving it one more year ever since. I mean, I've got to stress that urban herbs did expand dramatically, it did thrive. And you know, we graduated from the farmers market on to the thriving street food scene that was happening

around that time. And we sold our product, our plants, alongside street food as a food product. And it really resonated with a younger audience. People who never really thought about growing before we started to go to food festivals, to a few flower shows, flower shows weren't quite as much fun because there wasn't as much food there. And we started to build an online presence. You know, if I'm going to use marketing speak, we started

develop an online brand. But essentially what all it was was we were sharing the joy of growing through social media. So many people connected with us. And in early 2020, Boris Johnson went on television and told everyone to avoid mass gatherings, and to stay at home. And as a business that sold all their products at Mass gatherings, all around the country that put us in a bit of a predicament. And things got very, very serious financially.

This is something I figured that I share quite regularly that when you added up all the invoices that we owed, we were minus 8000 pounds at one point

of a problem. I mean, you know, we we went from having a ruined business to a business that was so busy. We didn't know how many hours were we'd find the hours, especially during lockdown, you know, to fulfil the orders. But we did. And on a serious level, you know, we will never stop being grateful to the people who supported us in that moment. And it's it's lovely, because actually, I know some of them are your members, actually. But yeah, some of the people that support us back then they're

still customers now. And I suppose that's the really special thing because, you know, Ross, you have got a thriving community around you. And you know how important that is? Yeah. But when we receive an order for plant, you know, okay, full disclosure, we we do process a lot of orders. Now, you know, the business has expanded. But if ever I'm in the packing room, and the label printer goes off, and I look down at the label prints, I will

recognise people's names. I will know the people who order every week, every other week, every month, the people who take the time out of their day to tag us when their delivery arrives. And they give us the excitement. Because when you've been around 3000 pots of strawberry mean, you lose the love for it slightly, you sort of it becomes Oh yeah, there's a strawberry mint, that all has got three

strawberry mint. But when somebody meets it for the first time, and they they encounter it and they put on Instagram their reaction to it. Wow, it just makes me love my job all over again.

they'll join our membership. And I'll know all of them now I'll know their names and I'm the same as you I still get excited with the people that carry on supporting us. So yeah, matters

it really matters.

take people somewhere. Mental. Yeah, I think absolutely do. One of my customers who works as a, I think the official title is psychotherapist, something like that. Yeah. Like my daughter. Yeah. And well, maybe your daughter can actually tell me if this is correct or not. But I believe what he said is that most people live most of their lives within the front cortex of the brain where that deals with logic and reason. And

rationality. Yeah. But the sense of smell, it takes us back into the back cortex, the rear cortex of the brain that deals with emotion and nostalgia. And do you know something? I know exactly what he means. I really when I when I smell lime mint, when I smell rosemary, it takes me somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, whatever's going on in my day, it takes me away from it.

really interesting. But I'm sure you're absolutely right, which is why people buy flowers, isn't it? They buy flowers because they they're scented. And because it takes them back to memories they've had. At least British flowers do. Have a sense. So. So tell us what you're up to now. And what are you up to now? You've come a long way. Haven't you grown herbs? What's the plan? What's the vision?

things, anyone can grow. They grow food, and I mean, wow, has there ever been a time when we need to grow food more than we do now? You know, I'm not joking. It's quite serious times for so many people. And I think growing food, getting outside, engaging, with the well being side of things, it is so important. And one of the things that I am very, very passionate about is encouraging people that they can grow. So be it on a personal level on your

windowsill. Yeah, in your back garden, you've got a new build, you can grow things. So that's one of my passions. But one of my other passions is on a bigger level, encouraging people to take it further to get involved in the horticultural industry, because I'm going to let you in a little secret roles. And this is just my opinion. But for too long, the business model within horticulture has been that you become successful. And you pull the ladder up behind you as fast

as you can. And we can't do that we can't do that anymore, because we need more young people coming into this industry. And actually, age is slightly irrelevant to this. Because people that I've been talking to are changing careers and getting into horticulture. Yeah, but we need more young businesses. We need people to bring energy to it. We need people to take over the mantle because I am not joking. There are so many opportunities out

there. You know, ever since that day in 2020, we don't talk about strengths and weaknesses. We talk about strengths and opportunities. And there are so many opportunities out there, especially for British growers at the moment. I know everybody listening to this will have different opinions. And the reality is that Brexit has put some barriers in place. But it has also provided opportunities because the costs of everything

has increased. And we're in a difficult situation, but actually, because of the difficulty of bringing plant material into the UK now. The opportunities for British growers coupled with the huge interest and uptake in gardening, the opportunities are there. I personally believe that what is lacking is the confidence and the knowledge. Yeah. So you asked me what I've

been up to? Well, by the time this podcast is released, people will know that I've actually written a book and it is a fairly big deal.

written. It's a lifestyle book. It's a book about how you can grow herbs. And it provides 12 Really cool, fun projects that you can do to bring herbs into your daily life. So we're talking a pizza pantry, living pizza pantry, we're talking a cocktail herb garden, we're talking about a human recharged planter. And it's step by step. It's how you can do this at home. So I really, really hope that this inspires people to get growing. And I hope I might be wrong about this, you know,

Ross, nobody's read it yet. But I really, really hope that it inspires people to just have a go.

that. It was about the changing lives that growing could make and that how people's lives were completely changed and how some of them did actually move into horticulture, but it was more of a really nice, easy read and some things you could do. And yours is similar in terms of it's a lifestyle, it doesn't show, tell them how to grow which herbs to grow, and when to grow them and how to grow them. It's much more interesting than that. I think I think it's, well, I'm expecting my copy. So

I can't wait. So when when is it released? Tell us where we can get it? Or how is it released.

that we are. You will be surprised to know that the book was proof read about 100 times by different members of family. And I remember one of the early drafts, I wrote something in a section that was demystifying the language of growing up, my wife read it, and she said to me, and the I don't know what to buy any lists. Yeah. And I realised in a section that I had actually written to demystify, growing, I'd used the word like

Biennial. Yeah. And, you know, I guess it's something that I repeat, almost every single time I record any podcast, and it's a quote from Michelle Obama, she said that we all have to communicate to people that they're welcome at the table. Because so often we put those barriers in place without realising that we are, you know, we use Latin names because it

lends us authority. Yeah. But it's the balance between accessibility and authority, I can use all these technical terms and I can make myself look really clever. But that doesn't really help anybody gain confidence in growing things. Your copy is going to be on the way to you know what,

Anyone can do herbs on the window ledge and put them outside. So we have we follow The same values of trying to change things.

qualifications. No. I mean, actually, I suppose I got 1/3 of a national award in horticulture.

explain it. I know that the science around this, I know that the science that says when you touch the soil, it has a beneficial effect on humans know the science about that. But I want to ignore that. Because I prefer to think of it as magic. Because it feels like magic. And one of my customers who was living on her own during the pandemic, she contacted me. And she said, I'm living on my own. And you know, she said the pandemic was a very dark time

for me. And I can't imagine how tough that would be actually. But it sounds it sounds really horrible. And she said, the herbs that you sent me, I put it up on the windowsill of my studio flat in London. And I looked at them as lying in bed at the morning, I was thinking, Why do I have to why should I get out of bed, I've got nowhere to go, nothing to do. And she was looking at these pots of herbs on the windowsill and she said she had this fundamental realisation if I don't get out

of bed. And if I don't water them, they're gonna die. And I do not want that to happen. You know, I've got enough problems here as it is. And that gives you the drive. I think that's probably what spurs me on as well. Now Now I'm living vicariously through other people.

don't have access to land. They don't have the startup fund. And to be honest with you, I have quite strong opinions on this because I started my business now. Okay, fair enough. I wasn't turning over hundreds of 1000s of pounds, but I paid my tuition fees. And I made a profit on that level. And that was literally growing herbs in my mum and dad's back garden, you can get a small polytunnel and you can have a play and you can

build your confidence. And if nothing else, you can turn it into a side hustle, you don't need loads of space. You do probably need some money. But you don't need a lot of money. Because I've got to stress this urban hubs has never had any financial assistance or tell a lie. We had 500 pounds from the the business development course I did at Birmingham University, which I used to print banners and make hoodies with what we call Andrews plants about them.

Money well spent, I think, for me, within horticulture, education, and knowledge is the biggest thing that's holding people back. Now. Back at the start of this year, I got a bee in my bonnet. I read a few things within the horticultural industry that fired me up. And I decided to, in addition to running my own business, I thought I'm gonna change the world. I'm gonna certainly change the horticultural industry. And so many people Ross approached me young people with an idea to start a

business. They've approached me and they've, they've asked me for advice, they've asked me for, you know, how can I start urban herbs, but in Northern Ireland, how can I do that? And the thing is, is I would love genuinely to just help everybody and you know, just give them hours and hours and hours, but I can't. Because ultimately, you know, I've got a bit I genuinely I love talking to people like that, because they inspire me.

So I actually appeared on a podcast alongside two guys who I'm now very good friends with called the fuqra podcast. And we had a bit of fun on the podcast. And we carried on talking afterwards. And about two weeks later, I mentioned to one of them in a WhatsApp message that I'm planning to a revolution, I am planning to help young growing businesses who are growing food, looking to grow their own food, to start a little herb farm, ought to

upgrade the market garden. I said to him, I want to change the world, I want to provide a support base, and membership scheme or something to help these people. And Chris phoned me back about 10 minutes later, and he said, mate, please don't do that. Because that's what we're about to launch. And, you know, he said, Please, can you come on board. And so I accepted the role as a director at Fuqua Academy. And we launched in September. And Ross, the response has been so amazing.

You know, I mean, okay, fair enough, we expected that we were going to get a few people who are looking to start a business, we thought we were going to get a few established, but young businesses who want to learn about marketing, and learn about taking it from a sort of a small business to a medium business. But what's amazed us is the people who have joined, maybe they've got a small allotment. And they just want to learn about growing food. They don't want to take it to a business

level. The truly magical thing about those members is, so many of them have contacted me and said, If my membership, support one young business, and I just happen to turn up to a few workshops, and I enjoy it. Wow, it's worthwhile. And that's how amazing human beings are Ross, to be honest, that even when mortgages are going up this much, people are still thinking about the future. I think that's really, really phenomenal. To be honest,

interest. And most of them are pre startup or startup phase, which is quite interesting. So whether COVID has said, Okay, now there are other things you can do or other careers you can take and other ways you can get involved. But the definite increase in what people want to do in growing generally. COVID has done that I'm sure for all of us. I'm sure it's helped us all in and helped everybody to think they can do something different.

job, do it part time. So you can make a business, get your marketing, right, build it, and it will come, I don't believe that you can jump out of a full time job and start making money in horticulture the next Friday, kinda doesn't work like that. So but I think they're the three barriers I need land is a big barrier. But actually, horticultural land in the UK is very easy to get hold of in terms of renting and quite low

cost. Secondly, I need money, which you don't need a little bit of startup funding in order to buy some seeds. But that's

it. And I think knowledge probably you know, that most people who are starting a bigger business wouldn't know, you know, marketing is so broad now, and you have to be doing podcasts and you have to, you have to be out there and you have to be visible, and you have to be doing lots of social media, and you have to write blogs, you have to get your website and there is a massive

marketing job to do. So I always say to people starting off in any new business, whether it's a new business, in growing or in something else, that take an hour, and my piece of advice would be to take an hour every day, and think what have I sold today and sit back and think, Well, if I'm not selling something, today, I've got a problem, I need to be doing some marketing, or I need to sell something I need to get more visible or whatever it is but an hour every day and set an alarm

and sit down and think what have I sold today. And that will focus the mind on trying to make a profitable business. Yeah,

route to go, I think. Because, yeah, okay, I don't I do not think that financially, it will be the long term solution for your financial happiness. I really don't, definitely not security, because I want one rainy day, and you know, it's game over. But what you will learn doing markets, is you'll interact with loads of people. So number one, in my opinion, you will learn how to sell, you'll become a bit of a

chameleon. And when somebody comes up to your stand, you will just time and time again you'll learn to watch that person and learn from them. And you'll see which which flowers they're attracted to which combinations they go for their instant reaction to your pricing to the condition of your product, you will learn so much. And if you do like one Saturday, a month, two Saturdays a month, you will learn so much inside the first 12 months.

listening to your customers. So talking about our listeners who love cut, cut flowers, whether for profit or for pleasure, can we talk about the herbs that are that you believe are a great for foliage and that they can get ahold of?

true, but why not embrace seasonality? So I recently provided for example, some her pot actually planted up in terracotta pots as centrepieces for weddings. And they were really, really interesting in terms of the clients because they specifically wanted ottoman or looking herbs like woodland herb theme. Yeah, so at this time of year, we're recording this on the fourth of November. If I look outside, now, you've got things like purple sage, lovely, luscious dark foliage.

You've got barbecue rosemary, which produces these quite big long stems that are perfect for cutting actually, with that smoky aroma. You've got all the different varieties of time. You've got all different varieties of sage I mentioned purple sage, but you've got a golden sage, Grace Age. You've got so many options even during the winter. Now once we come into Bring, I mean, you're gonna

have so many options. And that's where the fun starts because you've got all the different funky varieties of mint, which bring the different foliage, but also the aroma and I actually think that lime Mint is the one that people should grow for foliage. The lime Mint is really architectural, in terms of the way it grows, it gets quite a big stem, but there's just something really bold about it and the veins on the leaf look really cool. Also, it smells like lime and you can put it in

a cocktail. I mean, let's not go too deep about this. Blackcurrant sage, really pretty, pretty flowers in the salvia family. The foliage looks lovely, but I think we're going to be rolling this for the flowers, because it's in flower for just so long. I mean, this year, our blackcurrant sage started flowering, I think, maybe early June, and it's still in flower now. We just keep on cutting it. And everybody keeps tagging us on Instagram, saying,

wow, it's still in flower. And it's kind of like thinking about a colour does that every year. How cool is that? Or another another variety that I would just quickly give a bit of a shout out to Mojito mint. Have you come across that one rose? No. So it's got quite, I guess you could say Fluffy, fluffy leaves. But it is the variety that you would use for a mojito. I mean, it just smells like

tomato for starters. But the leaves, you know, when something looks like you know, a dress on Strictly Come Dancing, you know, they're gonna do one of the Latin dances with the sort of the flared sort of skirt. That's what the foliage looks like. It looks it looks like a party, man. You know, it looks like a mint that has absolutely. Yeah, it looks like a mint that has no place in a learned discussion of her plans. It's common to have a party and it's going to be nice

and a drink. And I think that would look quite nice in an arrangement as well.

one word on Instagram. Yeah, because we are now heading into the most beautiful time of year we're going to have Christmas. But then after Christmas, we're dreaming of spring. We're in the depths of winter. January in February, my grandma was a farmer. And she always used to say that people think of winter and they think of December and January. It's always February. That's the grim one. But, you know, we're in the depths of winter. But on our social media, we're going to be dreaming of

spring. And you know, the X i It's like a kid before Christmas. I can feel the excitement building. Oh, yeah. And you know, for me personally, I suppose the countdown to the book being released as well, it will be quite an emotional one. Because it'll be exciting to hear what people think, you know, kind of 30th of March, the book comes out spring arrives. And I just profoundly hope that everyone gets caught up in the

excitement. Because I mean, I'll be excited even if I'm in the tunnel on my own, but

in March. So yeah, it's an exciting time, I think.

was a lot of orders. And, yeah, you know, we are literally on you know, to a point where we're sending probably seven pounds Let's have boxes a day, on Monday and Tuesday in peak season. And we're keeping DPD in business, I think I've got no reason to give them any sponsorship below. So other careers are available. But you know, we are hitting the limits of what we can do. And we just want to reach as many people as possible. We really do, we just want to reach as many people as

possible. And that's why doing podcasts like this, and just sharing the joy of growing, because I know that me and you are very similar the way we look at this. So it's just such a pleasure really to try and get the word out there as much as possible.

growing. We want to actually have a legacy, which isn't, you know, where we made some money, and we sold a company and, you know, none of us want that to be our legacy. Yeah, what we want. And, you know, breaking news, we haven't announced all of these plans yet, but we do have some very, very big plans for the future. What we want is the legacy of looking around, and being able to say, we seeded those businesses, no pun intended.

tombstone? What is it write it now and work towards that. And mine was always to change the face of British cut flowers, you need to make them more people grow, cut flowers, and change the whole face of the industry as a whole. And that's what I'd like to be remembered for. Not like you say, build a company

make lots of money. And it's not about that it's about getting more people to grow more flowers and create more happiness, which is where you are you're looking at getting people to involved and having small businesses and growing them and making them into something different. And that's a different legacy. But they say you should always look at that and look backwards.

within our own industry. And this is an industry where there are precious few young people making a go of this. We can't keep that cannot continue. There is now so much demand, people are into growing their own, and it's just going to get more that demand is just going to increase. And it's something I'm so passionate about. Because this is an industry that should

welcome anyone. It doesn't matter what your background is, it doesn't matter what your level of education is, it doesn't even need to say it doesn't matter what your your nationality is, what your ethnic background is, your gender. But unfortunately, I do need to say it because I think people need encouragement to join this industry. Everybody out there, everyone I speak to is lacking the confidence. They're lacking the knowledge. They're lacking. Just the hand on the shoulder.

I'll tell you a really quick story rose earlier in the spring, and to anybody listening to this. Get ready to nod your heads right now. But is it just me or fungus gnats? The worst villain in the growing space?

the age gap right there. But this guy, I phoned him up and I said, Oh, at least fungus that's you know, I don't know what to do. about it, and the air and then just quickly on the phone. He said, Oh, I can't talk to you right now I'm just busy. But he went, don't panic, nothing major to worry about. He said, Just go about the watering, increase the ventilation, give me a call in three days. And that was all it took. You know, because, yeah, you know, a little bit of

education here. For anybody who is struggling with these horrible creatures. You know, fungus gnats live in the sort of the very top layer of the soil. If the soil gets too damp, and you get that kind of green on the top of pot, that's what fungus gnats basically love. And that's where they lay their eggs. They want these pests actually, that they'll damage young plants and they can spread problems. But they're mainly an aesthetic problem, really. But the point is, is I was able to

contact that guy. And there was no way that I'd get the answer that I would need if you type it into Google, because sometimes you don't even know what question to ask to you. And he was able to just come back to me and say, there you go, you just need to do this. Don't do anything drastic. Here you go. Problem solved. And he was right. He was right. And it's just the hand on the shoulder. It's just that better guidance. And I think that's what people

need. So I genuinely hope in terms of legacy, that the legacy that we leave is a welcoming one to the next generation. You know, and at the food grower Academy, the food grower podcast, that's what I'm currently spending a lot of time doing, which is trying to build the ladder for other people to climb up. Because, you know, listening to me right now, I could be forgiven for you know, the humblebrag saying, you know, yeah, we've been going for 12

years we've got there. But let's be honest, Ross times are quite hard right now. And I'm not sure if people can take 12 years to build a functioning business. And the thing is, with the work that I'm doing over at fuqra, I just hope that people who are building a food growing business, maybe we can cut a few of the kinks out of the journey. Maybe we can, maybe we can shave 789 years off off that journey. Learn from a few of my adventures,

So like you have the same values, and that we can instil that in people to cut some years out of that. And I'm passionate about doing that. Because the more people go into the businesses, more flowers we grow. So I'm back to my mission of, and therefore an important lesson, therefore will save our planet. So that's what's gonna be my legacy. So tell us, Andy, where can people find you? Obviously, we're gonna put in the show notes, all of your

details. But where's the best place for people to come and find you and learn more about you?

how we dispatch the plans. And, you know, perhaps we just start uploading blogs and things like that, perhaps one day Ross

store. So you know, instead of it being kind of like E commerce and very impersonal on Amazon, we wanted to actually create a village shop atmosphere. You know, the people that order our her plans, they're buying from people. They're buying from human beings. You know, when you dispatch, I don't know 1000 orders or whatever a week. Just statistically, sometimes it goes wrong. Sometimes the DPD driver you know, perhaps he leaves it in the wrong place or something

incredible happened. I'm going to share this with you really quickly, Ross last year, somewhere in the north of England. A driver delivered a box of herbs onto a boat at a marina. But he delivered it to the wrong boat. And the boat actually set off down the river and was never seen again. So, when these issues happen, the customers that we deal with, they know that human being here, they know that Andy or Teresa will sort it. It's not some

faceless online chat thing. When there's problems happen, when they do, we'll sort it. If you've ordered herbs for the very first time, you don't know how to grow them, send us a message, we will literally, I'll probably film your video of like how I do it. And that's what we tried to do. We've tried to build a community. And that's what I'm most proud of, to be honest.

down. But you're human, like you say so 500 tuneups, we'll still go back out again. So, but Andy, as always is an absolute pleasure to have you, it's an absolute pleasure to see what you're up to, and that you're obviously moving forward with your podcast, and that you're going to release a book. And there's so much happening. And I will keep following you on your social media channels. And I will be ordering my herbs in the spring in order to because herbs, um, amazing cut flowers.

So just remember that and add them in. And also, of course, you can eat them. So I would love to thank you, Andy, for coming over today. And every time we speak, I learned something new. So thank you very much for joining me

if you're someone who has a passion for cut flowers, our environment and wants to make the world more beautiful, you're in the right place. Whether you're growing flowers for pleasure, or profit. I'm on a mission to empower flower enthusiasts and professionals to help change the world around them. Whether you're just starting out and need a helping hand, or we're looking to scale a substantial flower business, I'm your cut flower woman. Welcome to the cut flower podcast.