The Fox Sisters: Toes Crackalackin'

What should we call this one? This one is Toes Crackalackin'. Them toes be crackalackin'. Them toes be crackalackin'. That's so good. That is so good. Crackalackin' rip-rappin'. Music.

I sound raspy mcnasty right now and i don't know why you were screaming all weekend yeah i've been screaming all weekend like but for good reasons but no yeah so it was the craziest shit so we're We have a blast at the concert. We went to Imagine Dragons. Kids had an out-of-body experience. I also went and saw Kacey Musgraves on Tuesday. Yeah. Who the fuck am I right now? I know. Yeah. Okay. So we leave early because you have to with that venue, like traffic. It's gridlock.

So we leave early, still get stuck in the gridlock that is the traffic. And we're sitting there and Aldridge is like scoffing. Because we haven't moved. I looked at the clock. It was 37 minutes. We had not inched one inch forward like we were just stuck. And what do I do? Because I am who I am. I get out and I start directing traffic. So I am standing up in the front. I'm cringing and I wasn't even there. Oh, my God. My sister said the exact same thing. She was like, already? No.

Already? No. Because she for a second was like, Oh, like, I love that venue. It's outdoor, blah, blah, blah. Like, there's like enough space in between people because it's lawn seating. And she was like, were people like this close? I was like, closer. She's like, No, nevermind. I take it back. I could not have pulled that shit off. But yeah, so I get out of the car to see what the fuck is going I'm walking up and I want to say I'm like, like nine car lengths away from the intersection.

That is bullshit. And so I go to the traffic directors and I'm like, hey, do you guys think we can get some action over here on this end? And they were like, yeah, we're just so understaffed. I'm sorry, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, dude, honestly, I like super appreciate you guys and what you're doing. I know you're doing your best, but we've been sitting there like literally haven't moved for 37 minutes, like not one inch.

And they were like, oh, that's bad. I was like, I'm just trying to get my kids home. They're like in the car, they're tired, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, well, fuck it. I'm standing here already. And I just start, I'm like, I look at that guy. I'm like, you stop, you let's go. And I'm like, I know it was so bad. And so I'm like, I go to the, one of the traffic directors. I'm like, Hey, let me get your vest.

He was like, I can't do that. And I was like, okay, let me get your wand.

He's like, I can't do that and i was like okay well i'm just gonna be over here willy-nilly directing traffic and i'm directing traffic at this point for like 20 minutes it's like everybody's either thanking me or fucking pissed off because i'm making them stop yeah because what was happening where people were cutting across the parking lot too it was just a shit show i'm so glad i wasn't with you yeah you would have you would have you would have literally gone full homer

simpson into just any bush you would have homer simpson into a cactus about like anything and so this lady gets out of her car and it just so happens it was right i was right about to jump in the car because aldridge was already up and it was his turn i was like i just need to get my family the fuck out of here and it was and this lady gets out of the car, I don't know where the fuck she came from, what rock she came,

like what hole she pulled herself out of. I don't know. She just came out of nowhere. And she comes up to me. She's like, hey, are you OK? And I look at her and I can already see it. She's trying to start something. Bitch, don't start nothing. Won't be nothing. I look at her and I go, are you OK? I by the way, my tone had dropped in my voice. I was like, oh, I'm not putting up with you. I'm like, man, what?

So she goes, well, you're out here like directing traffic. I said, I'm trying to get my kids home. It's gridlock. You guys are cutting across this blah, blah, blah. And I was like, it's fucking crazy. We've been here for over an hour. And it like, you know, whatever. And she was like, she's I've honestly forget what she says. But she's Aldridge said something. And I think he was just like, get the fuck out. Like, yeah, first of all, I got mad at him.

You don't say anything i'm like unless you think i can't handle it unless you think a man is coming up and out of somewhere you get to say nothing you get to watch the interaction until it looks like i can't handle it because you jumping in is only going to escalate let me handle this shit so she starts like barking at aldridge and she's like shut the fuck up like it's like yelling in my kids are sleeping in the back seat bitch i went for mama bear i she was like

leaning like like, low so she could yell at Aldridge. I go in between her and the car, and we... I'm... Titty did titty. We had a titty exchange. And I'm yelling in her face because she's yelling at my husband and my sleeping kids. And I'm like, get... Fuck out of here. And I go, goodbye. Goodbye. And I like, like, I'm backing. You just like keep titty bumping. I'm titty bumping. I'm inching her backwards. And then she finally starts walking away.

And she, her last words, you don't even work here. Ma'am, I know that I don't fucking work here. Like that was the biggest burn. Yeah. You don't even work here. I'm like, bitch, what did you think was going to happen? And you already know that I'm crazy enough to be out here directing traffic. Did you think you were going to like Karen me into my car or something? Did you think you were going to get me to like go away? Like she probably was tipsy and was like pissy. She want to be home.

And then she's like, you were her perfect. Like, yeah. And I wish a bitch would. She tried and failed. It was so crazy. And I was like, like I was she was my height. She was really pretty. Ginger hair. I was like, so like, but she was older ish. She's probably had five years on me. Not like, you know, whatever. And I just remember like looking into her eyes. We're like this into I look and I was like, I contact. I was like, I was like, if she because we keep tidying.

I go, if she swings on me, you're going to head butter. No, you savage. Why did you go? I don't know. No, you were straight to headbutt? You said that you were like eye to eye. Fight clown? No! Okay, fight clown, who the fuck are you? Oh my god, that is so funny. You went, you're gonna headbutt her? No! I was just thinking. You were gonna kiss her? No, but I was thinking, I was like, man, I've been doing modified fucking burpees lately. I'm fucking lethal.

I take this bitch out, you know? I was like, I've been working out. I'm like, I could take her. I could take, like, thinking in my head, because I'm like, this is good. If this escalates, I will not throw the first punch. I will not push her. I will not whatever. I will titty butt. Not headbutt her? Not headbutt her. I will not headbutt her. But I was like, if this goes somewhere, I could take this bitch. I've been working out.

And it went nowhere. I went nowhere. She went, you don't even work here. That's such a sick burn. Oh, God. But I'm like, bitch, what, like... It was just, I, I, I was, I had like, it was an out of body experience. It was like, and I honestly was so thankful that my kids were sleeping. I don't know how they slept through this lady yelling into my car, but they did. Oh my God. If they would have, if they would have woken up and like,

God, I don't know what I would have done. You would have headbutted. I would have headbutted her. I would have found the Jenna in me. You think I'm headbutting people? I don't know.

Headbutting people? That's the first thing that came to your mind. because you said you were like making eye contact you were like right there and i was like all you needed to do was just i literally i was like i could see that she wanted to push me this bitch is out here trying to direct traffic yeah i can't gauge whether or not she's crazy enough to head butt or not you know what i'm not crazy enough to head butt but maybe it'll

be something maybe i'll put that in my artillery honestly i it was so crazy because i haven't gotten in a literally since I was 18 I don't fight I'm not a fighter I bark I stand up for myself, because I'm usually like I'm not gonna get like steamrolled but I'm not a fighter I like peace in my like I would that would have been like the worst way to end the night but I could have I was literally I was like I

was like I was like I've been working out lately like I could take her if she wants to squabble. But I wasn't going to do it. I wasn't going to be the first one. I'm fucking, I'm geriatric, okay? I have no business being out there on the streets of Chula Vista. Directing traffic. Directing traffic. Getting in fights. But I needed to get my kids out of there. And guess what? We got them out. And if it wasn't for me doing that shit, we would have sat

there probably. You'd be here. You'd be there now. Christine didn't leave until one o'clock.

That's kind of like remember we got stuck in that parking lot for paramore and palm springs it was that ever it was that honestly i told aldridge i think i'm gonna buy a vest just keep it in my car nobody would know nobody would know just get out go to work, oh my god will you also get a wand yeah i feel like it's it's the whole get up oh my god i was telling erin and lil because we're gonna we're doing we're all we're gonna be for all you 12 listeners we're all gonna we're gonna be witches

for halloween we're gonna have a whole coven, and i was like maybe i'll be a traffic directing witch because you know we're all gonna have like our own themes you should wear the traffic cone costume and then put your cape and your hat on top. Oh my god that's so good yeah i don't know it was like a wild night but it was honestly with the exception of that it was so much fun the night was perfection the boys had so much fun And Aldridge tolerated.

They bought $52 chicken, even though I know I was so annoyed. But, you know, I let the kids I gave the I chose peace. I was sitting there and I was vibing and, you know, whatever, talking to people. And the kids are like, oh, I'm hungry. I'm like, I'm sure we bought $40 worth of musubis. But sure, go ahead. So I gave him my card through some air tags on them. And I said, go get food.

They come back both with food both with these huge blue cups of sugar and they were living their best lives yeah it was yeah it was a lot of fun yeah i 10 out of 10 recommend bringing your kids to an outdoor venue concert and it was it's their number one band so it was like Like, yeah. So that my mama heart is happy.

On the opposite end of that, I took Faye to Dashboard Confessional. Oh! And she hated it. No! She didn't hate it. She just was, like, so emo at this emo concert. She was full. She was full, crisscross on the floor, she and shopping on my phone. Oh, my. Her feet hurt, and it was really late by the time he, like, actually got off. Actually came on, but... Oh, my God. Oh, that's not what I expected. I thought she was going to love that shit.

She actually really liked this girl at the beginning, Taylor Acorn, who she, like, really liked because she said that she gave her Avril vibes. Ooh. And then... Yeah, she was pretty tired and it was mostly adults. And so she was like an old adult too. Yeah. With also their young kids. There was like a handful. There were a bunch of kids? There were young kids, but you could see all the other young kids were also very much like, mm.

Oh, I would hope that like they would like hate it together at least. And like, I don't think that she. I don't know, fuck off. Yeah, I don't know. It was really funny. Damn. But you know what, though? I was like, she's going to go to school and then talk mad shit about how her mom took her to a really lame emo concert. And it's going to get her some street cred. I think it will. Yeah. I think all these kids are like, whoa, you went to an emo concert?

What was it like? Whoa. Was everyone really sad? Yeah. Was everybody wearing eyeliner and having their hair? Apparently, Carissa, Kendra's sister, did wear pink and was possibly the most the brightest dressed person. She went. Oh, fine. It was fun. But anyway, we should like get going. Oh, OK.

OK. It's been months, months, seasons. There was a time where we were like, yeah, let's take the summer off because I went on family vacations. Jenna went to a whole other ass country, Tokyo. And we were like, oh, yeah, let's just take the summer off and be with the kids and blah, blah, blah. And then it also turned into like September and then almost October. It is October. Yeah, almost October, but we're jumping in. But you know what I realized is that I believe our first episode,

we were like, is I think was on the 16th or the 17th. Uh-huh. Or maybe the 15th because of COVID. If we're on a Wednesday. So it was probably on October 15th of last year. So we're like almost like a year anniversary. Wait a minute. I didn't know that. Yeah. We started in October. And so I was kind of thinking like we'll just kind of like treat it like season two rather than being. I like it. Hardcore. Yeah. Can I guarantee that we won't take next summer off

and then disappear for like three or four months? No. Lose out. So we're just going to kind of treat this as season two. Season two? I like that. Since it's been like almost a full year since we started. So happy anniversary. Oh, my God. How cute are we? We are having it. We need to celebrate. What are we going to do? I know. Oh, that'll be our second one. Oh, that's going to be a fucked up one, too. Oh, okay. If we can get through it today. I don't know. I got to focus. Okay, we'll see. Yeah.

Here we go. Let's go. Yeah, we can't bullshit for as long as we did. I know. Even though we just did for 20 minutes. Yeah. And then there was full silence while I was just texting. Yeah. Okay.

So because we are in October, I thought that we would have some more spookier cases. Ooh. So today we're going to be talking about the Fox sisters. And I think it's kind of important to talk about the Fox sisters when we talk about, like, spirituality and, like, spiritual scams.

Because they kind of were like the first like they were the originators of like the america or not even the american just like the modern seance really see oh oh my god i'm jenna oh fuck it always happens i'm jess i know so talking about the fox sisters super important mostly because Because there's also this very interesting gray area with them that I think is a little – because obviously they're not around and because of the things they've said, it's kind of hard to go back on.

It's interesting to kind of like feel out where what if they actually really did have any sort of intuitive abilities. Uh-huh. So John Fox was a fuck up that was trying to get his life together. He and his wife Margaret. Hold on. I need to change my notes. John and Margaret. Yeah. Okay. So John Fox, fuck up, trying to get his life together.

Uh-huh. He and his wife Margaret had a rocky marriage. They married young, had three kids, and then separated for a super long time because John was a drunk rascal. He's a rascal? I know you think that. I love that. But they reconciled after John is able to, like, somewhat pull it together, and they have two more kids. Oh, my God. This leads to a 24-year age gap between their oldest, Leah, and their youngest, Kate. Bro, I'm already tired. She saw the light at the end of the tunnel,

and she's like, you know. No. I'm going to veer. Just pop out somewhere. I'm going to restart. Bro. No, I'm already tired. Like, why? Why would you do that to yourself? That's terrible. Back in those olden days. She's either really kind or really dumb is what I'm thinking. Because if I make three humans with a man and I deem him not acceptable, I'm done. I'm not going back in. You know what I mean?

No. Yeah, 100. So they took a long separation. I actually think that it's pretty baller because back then you didn't really like get divorced, especially like this is like Dickensian times, even though they're not in England. This is in Canada. But this is, you know, it's like Victorian era. Right. Like pre like a little pre-Civil War. So like back then, even separating is kind of like a really big deal. Yeah. Which was like kind of baller and then made him like grovel for like 10

years. Like made him pull his shit together. Pull it together and then was like, OK, now. OK. I mean, if that when you put it like that, I guess that's. I just don't have that in me. When I look at you and I'm already like, fuck you and your entire being. You fucked my family over. I have three kids with you and you can't pull it together. You're not worthy. Goodbye. Well, that's because we live in modern times. That's true. This will come into play.

Okay. Though, I think it'll explain probably why she got back together. Someone. Someone. So Leah, the oldest, had run off and gotten married when she was 13. Holy fuck. Mm-hmm. She moves to Rochester with a man named Bowman Fish. How old is he? I think he was a little bit older. I don't know. I mean, he had to have been a little bit older. Definitely, like, pedo vibes. Yeah. So she does have a daughter, but then Bowman Fish up and, like, leaves them and leaves her a single mother.

Dick. I know. So in order to support herself and her daughter, Leah starts offering piano lessons, which at the time is, like, very industrious.

Industrious so like going back to like being a single mom back then was not easy because it wasn't easy to earn money as a single woman i feel like that's when they typically come to start like selling themselves yeah so instead of selling herself she's selling piano lessons like a bad bitch i know good for her and so worried about leah john and margaret moved themselves and their two youngest daughters from Ontario to Hydesville, New York.

And that's where John gets, John gets a job as a blacksmith. Okay. He has never blacksmithed before, but he's just like, I'm going to give it a go. Tink, tink. So they moved to this new town and they get this cute little cottage that like goes with like.

Black smithery yes is that what it's called do tell i don't know i don't know i've been to the one i've blacksmith shop that's what it's called in old town okay but maybe it's also called the blacksmith when i think of so this is their this is where he's blacksmithing or this is where they're living they're living in hydesville and he's a blacksmith and the blacksmith shop has As like a little cottage. Yeah. Like. Okay. That is on its grounds.

So the two young girl or the two girls, Maggie, she's 15 and Kate and she's 11. Why was that sentence so bad? Why am I redoing that? Okay. So the two youngest girls, Maggie, who's 15 and Kate, who's 11, were super bored all the time and kind of left to their own devices because they're like in a new town.

And like they kind of really only have each other yeah and so on march 31st 1848 so again holy fuck yeah that's a lot this is decency pre-civil war that comes into play later okay margaret fox calls over her neighbor mrs redfield who apparently doesn't have a first name oh okay but you know You know how like back then they were all like Mrs. Mrs. Redfield or the Lady Redfield. Lady of the house Redfield. So she's this kind of no bullshit neighbor.

OK. And so Margaret calls her over and she explains that the past few nights they've been hearing these rapping noises like knocks. And they were oddly enough starting to communicate with whatever was making the knocking sound. And the spirit who Kate called Mr. Splitfoot. Could correctly communicate all of her children's ages, including the ones that didn't survive. What? And it was a spirit. And they were like, are you a ghost?

And I was like, yes. Oh, my gosh. This is such a side note on why Jack is so cute. We have like a little Ouija board. My mom got it at like Marshall's. It's like a cheese plate.

It's like a little platter. yeah and jack was like if we use the ouija board and we say is there a ghost and it says no does that mean that there is a ghost or there is no gods no why is he so fucking smart i love him so much he was like he's dying i love it anyway so they were like is there a spirit and the spirit was like he's like does that mean the ghost is lying to it we have a not only a ghost but a liar ghost yeah yeah

so there's a ghost so the they're like is there a ghost and it's like knock knock knock yeah i'm a ghost and the girls are like seem genuinely scared and margaret fox wasn't someone who was like impractical or kind of like swept away by like any sort of like fantasy uh-huh And so Mrs. Redfield was like, OK, but then was like, all right, spirit, what's my age? And it like counted like 30. So many knocks or whatever. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because I like how also in the story kept being like Mrs.

Redfield. She was like 38. Oh, I'm like, she's like my age. Literally my age. Right now. I am Mrs. Glimba. Oh, Mrs. The Lady Glimba. The Lady Glimba. OK, so they correctly correctly taps out her age. So then she calls her husband and then her husband starts asking questions and then they get the answers right. And so they call more people and more people. And they're like, what the fuck is happening? And then, like, they're so kind because then they're like, spirit, were you murdered?

Are you OK? Can we find some justice for you? Oh, my God. They're like, let me do you a solid. I'm still here. I could try. Oh, my God. I know. So rather than just be kind of like, ah, just a minute. They were like, let us help you. Let me write you're wrong. So the story that they gathered was that years ago on a Tuesday night at midnight, Mr. Splitfoot was murdered in the East bedroom via neck slashing for whatever little money he had.

And afterward, he was buried in the cellar. Oh, that's awful. So, the next night, more people come to hear the rappings. They call them rappings. That's wild. I can't hear. Like, when you say rappings, I'm all picky, picky. Like, in my head. I have a hard time figuring out what the rappings are because, like... In my mind, it just sounds like not. Yeah. But then later on, they explain what it is, and I can't wrap my head around it. No, okay.

It's going to be a surprise. You're going to be like, what the fuck? Okay. So the next night, more people come to hear the wrappings. It's estimated that hundreds came to visit. Holy shit. It got so popular that the little cottage was dubbed the Spook House and made the papers. Oh, my God. It was like a whole thing. The two older siblings, Marie and David, even came to the house to stay and tried to help dig up the cellar so they could find the body and give it a proper burial.

But they couldn't find anything because they had a really heavy rain and the basement was flooded. And so every time they dug, more water. It was just water coming in. Yeah. It was doomed. Yeah. So like most small countryside villages in the 1800s, Hydesville was very religious. And though the girls' claims made them wildly popular, it also did not go down well with the church. And the minister in Hydesville accused the girls of practicing witchcraft.

I was just going to say it's going to get very Salem Witch Trial-y up in her. Actually, I'm surprised it didn't sooner. Yeah. I'm surprised people were like, ooh, let's check this. I mean, there is a good hundred years between the two. Okay. So there's that. Yeah. But I'm surprised people right off the bat were like, ooh, a ghost. Yeah, let's see. Let's go, yeah. Let's see what's up rather than just let's go listen to it rap. Yeah.

So the Foxes send Kate to live with her brother David and Maggie to live with Leah and Rochester, thinking, okay, if we separate them, we can figure out which girl is the source of the wrappings. But the wrappings continued, and then just both girls ended up with Leah and Rochester. See, without even them there. So it's like. Yeah. Well, no, not with the girl. They weren't in the house. They were like, which girl is the source of the wrappings?

But both houses had the wrappings. so they were like okay separating them did nothing oh shit let Leah take them and so Leah takes them she's like 35 at the time. An old spinster of 30s. Yeah. So, Rochester in the mid-19th century was wild and in the best way. Like, I loved learning about Rochester. Ah! Because when you think of, like, any town in that era, you kind of think of, like, sexism and, like, religious fervor and, like, racism and,

like, any stifling of free thought, like, around that era. Uh-huh. Right? Uh-huh. But Rochester was, like, it. Really? It was it. So in 1947. Sorry. 1847. My notes said 19. I clearly just.

Yeah. So in 1847. So this is a year prior to those events. Frederick Douglass. Do you know Frederick Douglass? I know the name. Is the he escaped slavery in Maryland. Yes. Yes. Yes. So he was a big he was like a big like proponent. obviously a proponent of abolition, but he was a big voice in the abolition movement. So he launched his newspaper, The North Star, the year before the girls came to Rochester. I am loving this. Also brewing at the time was the women's suffrage movement.

Susan B. Anthony lived in Rochester. Stop it! Along with Abigail Bush and Amy Post, she was organizing the convention to garner support for the women's right to vote. Oh my God, I love this so much. Which brings me to Amy Post. Okay. OK. Amy Post, her life was super wild. But long story short, I could have done a whole post. It would have had nothing to do with any sort of spiritually fuckedness. Right. But she was super dope. So long story short, she was a Quaker who married her

sister's widow, but like not in a shady way. Like her sister was dying. And so she came to take care of her sister. And then she stayed to kind of help take care of affairs. And they both grieved together and they like fell in love. Yeah. It wasn't like weirdness. No, it wasn't like anything weird or like arranged. It just was natural. Yeah. So Isaac Post, her husband, was a pharmacist and they were like very well to do in Rochester.

Chester, and they lived a very devout Quaker life, which meant coming together with their community and holding hands, which is like a big deal at the time, and trying to channel the word of God. So that is like kind of when you think of a seance now. Yeah, that's kind of what it was. They were seancing before seance. It was kind of how they prayed or how they worshiped. So eventually the Posts end up leaving the church because the fact that some Quakers said that they

were people of God but were like totally cool with slavery just didn't sit well with it. Didn't vibe. Yep. Yep. Yep. They were like hmm I don't like that. So they left the church. And so they were good friends of many who sought refuge in Rochester. They not only allowed John Fox and his family to stay with them when they were passing through town, but they also hosted Frederick Douglass, obviously, and Sojourner Truth.

She is an escaped slave who spoke about abolition and the women's suffrage movement. Wait, what is her name again? Sojourner Truth. That is such a cool name. It's not her given name. All right. That's what she said. That's what she named herself because she created herself a slave name. Boom shakalaka. So Leah Fox was a friend of Amy Post. And when she learned the gifts of her younger sisters were said to have possessed, she invited them to, like, come stay with her.

She was like, you can let your sister stay with me. And then she was dumbstruck by the information that the quote unquote spirit was able to convey to her. She was also shocked when Leah, my water, she was super shocked when Leah, which as far as everyone knew up until this point, didn't have powers. Started communicating with Poe's recently deceased daughter and Amy's sister slash Isaac's first wife.

So she invited some of her more radical Quaker friends to come and meet with the Fox sisters who performed their rappings for the community. And it would turn into like an abolitionist meeting or like a suffragette meeting. And soon they had people wanting one-on-one meetings hoping to speak to their dead loved ones. So they held multiple seances a week.

That is wild that is so crazy okay so again look at them go they're not charging any money no they're just like doing they're happy to to connect you know yeah and just to their love to their loved ones that have passed yeah so they were getting like a couple of tips here and there just for people it's nice good work yeah but because i think when people are are so grateful they don't know what to do how to you know they it's you feel like you need to be you need to compensate them in some

way so i get that that is so fucking crazy so just the one sister is there though no those are all three sisters so all three sisters are there oh they are all there and they all three now have these powers that's so fucking crazy yeah so the girls Carls were even invited to the Seneca Falls Convention and held a seance there for Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Nope. I know. Leader of women's suffrage movement. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Where she was like, women should vote. Oh,

my God. This is like a rad, rad, rad space. No wonder. Okay. Yeah. Very, very cool. So despite their popularity, again, sisters had their skeptics. So they decided to put on a show. So November 18, what is this? 1849. Okay. I was making sure I didn't put 19. Amy Post rented out Corinthian Hall, which was the largest venue in Rochester. They performed for three nights, charging, and this is rumored, I couldn't find the exact amount, but almost everything said 25 cents a head.

And Leah and Maggie performed a public seance. Kate was off at school. That is so fucking crazy. Okay. Afterward, a team of investigators looking to discredit the sisters would go into a back room, strip them down, and ask them to perform things so that they could make sure that they weren't, like, fucking with them. Okay. Not literally strip them down. They're not like naked. Yeah. What? Mm-hmm. The fuck? Yeah. And so they couldn't find anything.

And they were so pissed they ended up storming the hall and have to cancel the last night because the girls have to be like escorted out by police. Oh, my God. Because they were like so pissed they couldn't find something. Yeah. So after that, they held private seances for a dollar a person in Leah's home. And they got so popular that they started to take the show on the road and toured the U.S.

Around this time, the sisters caught the attention of Horace Greeley, the editor of the New York Tribune. And he was also like a senator and like blah, blah, blah. Anyway, at this time, he's just the editor of the New York Tribune. He invited Kate to live with him and his wife while she attended private school nearby. But as soon as she moved in, Greeley was off in Manhattan working and she was left with Mrs. Greeley, who was so distraught after losing her son that she forced Kate night

after night to have a seance so she could talk to him. To connect with him. That is the saddest shit. I know. And she wrote letters begging to be brought home. But Leah and her mom were like, we don't want to cross Horace Greeley.

He's super powerful. powerful yeah so like you have you gotta yeah you or figure out a way to finesse your ass out of that joint because you know so she's left there for months oh that sucks and begins drinking because she's got very little parental supervision yeah so she's 13 when she starts hitting the bottle hard shit i know is she and she's still in school she's still in school okay i know she's 13 it's Thirteen. I don't know. Her sister did get married at 13. Private school.

So Leo remarries and moves to New York City where she hosts her younger sisters when they weren't touring. And spiritualism is blowing up. And it wasn't just the Fox sisters who were holding these public demonstrations. Mary Todd Lincoln was arranging seances in the White House. Oh, wow. Pre-assassination, too. This isn't like even after. Thomas Edison was trying to invent a spirit phone to talk to the dead.

Oh, my God. the curies like marie curie and her husband they were even attending seances in paris like it was like a it was a whole thing coming yeah yeah and in 1952.

Maggie meets elisha kent kane are you 19 again you mean did i yeah yeah not the 1950s 1850 so 1852 maggie meets elisha kent kane and this also was super fucking wild and i went on a whole tangent and it could have been its own story but he was a navy medic an arctic explorer explorer explorer looking for the lost expedition of the hms terror oh shit okay having just And there's a TV show even about the terror. I love this shit. Also that it's called The Terror.

The ship goes missing in the Arctic. That is wild. I love that type of shit. So having just returned from looking for the terror and coming up empty handed, he kind of just tries his luck with a medium to be like, maybe she can give me some information. And he leaves thinking this chick is a fraud. Right. But then keeps returning. And eventually it's like he's coming back because he has a crush on Maggie.

Oh, okay. And so they fall in love and his family is like, fuck no. Because they're super Catholic. And she's spooky. Yeah. They're like, we don't want this spooky bitch. Keep her at bay. We don't fuck around like that. Yeah. And so Maggie does everything she can to get in their good graces. She gives up mediumship. No. She goes to school. Okay. They write letters back and forth for like seven years.

Because they're in love. They're like in love. Yeah. And so he goes up on another expedition because he thought he could find, he's like, okay, I'm going to make my own money so that I'm not dependent on my parents and then we can get married. And then we can do it. Yeah. I don't have to listen to them. So he goes on another expedition to look for the terror. Uh-huh. And he's like, I'm going to write a book about it. That's how I'm going

to, like a second book about it. And that's how I'm going to be able to support us. And he returns from the second voyage, unsuccessful yet again, and goes to work writing a second book. Does his book tour, but his health is like not good. No! And so he's invited to England to meet the wife of the captain of the HMS Terror.

And he goes but before he goes him and Maggie secretly get married yes and there are letters that do confirm that like back and forth he was like yes we are married yeah so yeah it's not like she just made it up to be like I have some claim yeah. But on his trip to England, he gets sicker and so his crew is like, let's go to Havana. Maybe the warm weather will help and it doesn't. So on February 16th, 18, not 19, 57, he dies.

That is the saddest shit. So they never even got to enjoy each other and be married. I feel like romance back in the day was so hard. Yeah. I know. No. So upon his death, his family denies that him and Maggie were ever married and she's left with nothing.

And she ends up suffering a nervous breakdown and converting to Catholicism to honor him. To still, oh God. And swears off spiritualism. I think she has to eventually go back to doing some seances because she needs to support herself. She needs to make some money. But during this time, Kate was getting wily with her seances. Oh, I bet she was because she was hitting that bottle. Uh-huh. So spirits now were speaking through Morse code. So she was able to be like, uh-huh.

Also, she was claiming that she was channeling the spirit of Benjamin Franklin. Oh, okay. Which is interesting. Leah moves on to her third husband, a man named Daniel Underhill, who was a spiritualist as well. So they seem to be like a really good match. Oh. And he was rich, so she was, like, doing really well for herself. She's, like, higher up in society, and she's just, like, really feeling herself. And so in 1865, both John and Margaret Fox die of typhoid fever.

So the parents. So, like, full organ trail. Yeah. Typhoid fever. Typhoid dysentery. I don't know. Just all the—yep. This sends Kate into somewhat of a downward spiral. She begins drinking excessively, and to keep her on the straight and narrow, friends arrange for her to stay with a doctor named George Taylor, who provided treatment in return for seances with his dead children. What's so sad is that there's so many people who have dead children that that's

all they want. That's all they want, yeah. There's this connection to them. Yeah. I feel like it's such a cruel thing to outlive your children. Yeah. I can't wrap my head around that. Yeah. So Kate also gave sittings for some of his patients, one of whom was a woman named Harriet Beecher Stowe, claimed that she saw glowing lights at this meeting. And she said, quote, they were like the dear light of a glow worm. They touched me on my arm and I felt they had a strong resistant force.

One of them struck the table with a loud report like the firing of a pistol. She also described, unquote, she also described how her husband was moved back from the table four feet to the wall. Oh, wow. Chair and all, and then placed again at the table. Oh, wow. So I don't know how that happened. No. Harriet Beecher Stowe does not seem like someone who's about to lie about things like that. So it's just interesting.

In 1871, Kate traveled to England where she met H.D. Jenkins, who she fell in love with, married, had two sons, and she continued to work as a medium, but also subjected herself to paranormal experiments. What? I know. Just to, like, prove that, like, she was legit. Oh, I see. Okay, okay, okay. So Maggie even comes to live in England with her because she's, like, now widowed and doesn't really have, like, many prospects, I guess, in New York.

But in 1881, H.D. Jenkin dies, so they move back to America to stay with Leah for a short time before continuing on to stay with their brother David. What's also fucked up is that in 1885, Leah publishes a book called The Missing Link in Modern Spiritualism, A History of the Fox Family.

A history of the fox family the book is very leah centric uh-huh but it's about their like rise to fame and she very much exploits the girls while distancing herself from some of the scandals that kind of came with them that's convenient this pissed kate and maggie right the fuck oh yes absolutely later that year kate was arrested after being found drunk at home Wow. I would be arrested most times. I'm like, not most nights, but like once a week. So it's very odd.

So she's charged with the neglect of her children who are, 14 and 12 at the time. They're already getting married and hitting the bottle. I know. So they're sent off to an orphanage, which I was like, that's awful. That's aggressive. But also, isn't like 12 and 14 like working age back then? Yes. Like, wasn't like that like factory? If they can get married at 13, they go sell some papes on the street in New York. Right? Where's your hat? Yeah. Where's your hat? Get your hat. Yeah.

Anyway. Anyway, so news of this reaches Maggie, who was in England at the time, and she sends a cable claiming to be Kate's late husband's brother and is like, release the kids to Kate. I give permission. And they were like, OK. I love it so much. So Kate gets the kids back and they flee to England with Maggie. Both sisters suspected that the arrest was arranged. That is some boss bitch shit. I know. I like how they were like, OK, sure. Yeah.

Like that's all it took? All it took was just like a letter.

Pretending to be somebody i know okay yeah shouldn't you have verified i know nope they nope they're like all right oh it shall be true yeah so the sisters suspect that the arrest which was arranged by leah to gain control over kate and her kids and to keep like kate in line and she was now part of like new york society and this is like the gilded age and it's all about About, like, rumors and keeping people in line and kind of burying stories.

So they suspect this is, like, part of Leah's play to, like, kind of push them into obscurity. And during this time, spiritualism was, like, not what it once was. Everyone is like, I don't know. We've just lived through a pretty hard war. Like, shit is, like, there's all this money flowing in. So people are, like, a little bit more distracted by the reconstruction and building things. And there's a lot more scammers than that have been publicly known.

People trying to get their hands on that money. And then there's people like Houdini who's like, that's not true. I'll prove it. And these girls... They're known for being, like, loud and drunk, and it's not really helping their respectability. So they're having a hard time making money anyway. Right. So they try to save face by getting loud about how fake mediums are making it hard for the real ones. They're like, you know, these people, they're so fake, it's just making it hard

for us. For the real deal. And so they go on like this, and it seems to not be working. And then Maggie soon just grows tired of the bullshit. And an attempt to get back at Leah gives an interview to the New York Herald. Uh-oh. And she says, and this is a quote, When spiritualism first began, Katie and I were little children. And this old woman, my other sister, And she's so shady. I love it. Made us her tools. Mother was a silly woman. She was a fanatic. I call her that because she was honest.

She believed in those things. We were but little innocent children. What did we know? We grew to know too much. Our sister used us in her exhibitions, and we made money for her. Now she turns upon us because she's the wife of a rich man, and she opposes us both wherever she can.

Oh, I am after her. You can kill sometimes without using weapons, you know. Oh, my God. She also goes on to say that communication with the dead is impossible. She knows because she's tried many times unsuccessfully to contact Elisha Kent Kane, and she would soon reveal how she tricked everyone. She's earth-scorching. She is earth-scorchy, which I get it. I get it. I get it, girl. On October 21st, 1888, she read a statement at the New York Academy of Music

in front of a large crowd with her sister Kate in attendance. Yes. This is, like, a really long statement. I don't know if I should read it. But basically... Cliff's notes. Cliff notes. She says, basically, they figured out, they were super bored, and figured out they could, like, crack their toes and, like, find out ways to, like, crack their joints that made it look like they weren't moving at all. And so they started just, like, messing with, like, their mom.

And then she was like, is there a spirit there? And then they'd be all like, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack. Yeah. Oh, my God. It gets out of hand. Yeah. Because then there's all these people. They're like, wait a minute. This animal is getting too big. Yeah, it got too big. And they were scared of getting in trouble. So then they just kept doing it. They're like, you got to keep going.

And they just kept practicing. She was like, because we were young, we were able to crack our bones like that because they weren't fully formed yet. Uh-huh. And we were able to do it as adults because we had so much practice. And so she says that they go to live with her sister and her sister sees it as an opportunity to earn money and raise her station in life. Yeah. So then they all start working together. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. So the whole time they were just like, oh, my God.

Cracking their toes. I was in full belief, like literally full. And this poor Kate or Katie Kate. Yeah. She's over here drink hitting the bottle telling this lady about her son who had passed away for months like just crack crack crack crack crack like oh my god that's so fucking crazy. Isn't it? It is wild. Yeah. I didn't see this coming. This is fucking crazy. They had me. Yeah for sure. So she claims that Leah was pocketing 150 a night and leaving them with nothing.

That's so much money. That's so much money. Back then. That's a lot of money now. Give me 150 bucks a month. Yeah. I'm solid. I can crack my toes. Hold on. I can figure it out. Yeah. I can practice. So not only did she call out Leah as a fake, but she called out all of spiritualism as being fake. And she was like, I'm going to burn it all down. Yes. None of this is real. So they start touring to disprove spiritualism, which ended up being pretty lucrative. Yeah. Okay, here they go.

And then a year later, Maggie recants her confession. And despite her attempt to take down, like, her sister, she remained largely unscathed. Really? She died a year later in 1890 of inflammation of the heart at 78. That's a long time to live, 78. Yeah, back then, too. Back then, that was a long time. Yeah. How did they know that their heart got big? I don't know. I'm assuming an autopsy. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. So two years later, Kate died.

Remember, there's like a 20-year age gap between... Damn! Or 24-year age gap between... The two. Between the two. So she died in 1892 at 55 of alcoholism. And then a year after that, Maggie dies of heart trouble at 59. Oh, shit. But I'm curious because I do believe largely that it was... A little it was a scam however some of the things i'm like i feel like maybe kate was intuitive.

There had to be something there i think that they are really good at reading people and doing a lot of like open what do they called it like a cold read a car reads where they like right get information right about you know something and then they also in a leading way right and then they also know how to crack their toes yeah yeah that was the skill that was that combination man i tell you what that is so fucking crazy no they had to have had like something or or just

know they knew how to direct the conversation but they had me i didn't see that coming well they said that they would look they had like signals where the where leo would be like if they were doing a seance leo would kind of be at the back of the room being like okay knock now No, like knock yes or knock no. Jesus Christ. Because she knew things about her neighbors that the girls didn't know. Right. And they would be like, why would these young girls know this about me?

How? How would they? So they must be true. And I guess Leah just was like, oh, let me get in on this shit. Yeah. That is so crazy. But also, get it, girl. You're a single mom. You know what? A single mom who works too hard, who loves the kids and never stops. Oh, my God. Reba, are you country? I am. Since when do you country? I only Reba. Oh, the show. Ah. I love the show, not the... I know, because I knew the song, but I was like, wait a minute, you singing country?

Hold on. What's happening right now is the theme song for her show. It was a good show. It was a good show. Yeah, I really enjoyed her. Barber Jean. Yeah, I really enjoyed her. I love Barber Jean. But yeah, what should we call this one? This one is... Toes Crackalackin'? Them toes be crack-a-lackin'. Those toes be crack-a-lackin'. That's so good. That is so good. Crack-a-lackin' rip-rappin'. I know. But yeah, this one was like really fun.

That was fun. Actually, I have to, there's a podcast called The Foxes of Hydesville, and it's a dramatic retelling from Leah's point of view. And oh my gosh, what is her name? Carey Mulligan. Okay. It's got Carey Mulligan. She plays Leah Fox. Okay. And it's a really fun kind of like retelling of the story and all of the fervor. It's like kind of like an audio drama. Yeah. It's really fun. So I highly recommend it. I'll put it in the show notes. If I remember again,

because no one ever really. Yeah. Let us know if you look for show notes. Not a damn person has ever been like me. Hey, show notes. Hey, do me a favor. Even when I'm like, oh, yeah, I really want to like look into that or I really want to blah, blah, blah. And I think that to myself, I also do not go look into the show notes. No. Whoa. But, you know, it is what it is. I feel like now that I've said it, someone in the show notes is going to be like, or someone in the comments is

going to be like, where are my show notes? I really wish I did show notes. Yeah. Where are my show notes? I don't have time. Ain't nobody got time for that. I'm busy dragging my kids to emo concerts they don't want to go to. Oh, my God. I love it so much. I honestly, it surprises me, though. I feel like I could see her totally getting down. But she was like, give me your phone. I'm just going to sit here. I'm just going to be on Hot Topic. Yeah.

Looking at creepers. Mom, I'm going to Apple Pay this shit.

I'm going to go ahead and check out. Oh, my God. Well, thank you for listening. We are so happy to be back. Yes, we are happy to be back. Thank you guys for being so generous with your kindness, because we also didn't tell you guys we were leaving. So there's that. Yeah. Surprise. We're gone. Yeah. Surprise. We're back. Surprise. We're gone. Surprise. We're back. Sorry for the whiplash, but we're happy. I this is my shit. I'm happy to be back here. All right. Thank you for listening.

And thank you. Bye. Bye. Music.