NXIVM: Burn It Down, Sarah, Burn It Down

What should we call this one? Burn it down, Sarah. Burn it down. Burn it down, Sarah. Burn it down, Sarah. Fuck yeah. Burn it down, Sarah. Burn it down, Sarah. Music. Let's do it. Let's get into it. Okay. Okay, so as promised, we are covering Nixxiom today. Nixxiom. Nixxiom. It's an organization founded by Keith Ranieri, who is a self-proclaimed genius. Oh, convenient. And Nancy Salzman, who is a fake therapist.

They started it in 1998, and it was an MLM that sold success and personal development, which they referred to as their proprietary technology. And please know, and I'm not even going to physically do it, but every time I say technology, just imagine it's like air quotes and like the hugest eye roll you've ever seen in your life. Got you. Got you. So, yeah. So they have proprietary technology rather than selling physical products.

So a lot of their technology was looking inward to explore unwanted behaviors and limiting beliefs and taking the power away from those beliefs and behaviors in order to be the best version of yourself possible to be as successful as possible and it was to better the world by By bettering yourself kind of thinking. Yeah. So, okay. I mean... I could see how somebody, like, just who knows nothing about it would be like, oh, that doesn't sound bad. Yeah. And so, this would be fine.

There definitely are, like, some weird things that I think would have been, like, huge red flags, but...

That just continued on to get like huge they wore these like dorky sashes you know like if you're graduating and you have like your sash for if you're like in a club or like you're valedictorian you know like oh the things yeah yeah yeah like hang down uh-huh so they were those to indicate rank they kissed each other on the lips like whoa hold the fuck up i have realized i don't even kiss my own kids on the lips anymore oh like when shepherd will come in for

the hub like the kids with his cute little lips all peckered out and i go and i move his forehead i take his head and literally and i kiss his forehead yeah grown adults kissing like hug kiss on the lips no which is like i mean i don't want to like shame anyone if that's like thing that it's cultural but like i don't know i don't know i guess like i don't know i'm new to hugging so like.

So that's like big for you so it's like really big i'm certainly not kissing anybody on the no could you imagine that i won't even kiss aldrich on the lips unless he's brushed his teeth in the morning like he'll come in for the kiss and i'm like like even when i get ready for me their teeth are brushed because they're just out in public just kissing on the lip you just i just met you no you don't know you don't know anything about anybody's hygiene i know disgust yeah obviously

a pre-covid world so that they were very into volleyball and i don't know if you've like seen the memes of him where he wears like he's got like this like long hair and he wears like he's got like glasses and he's like a huge nerd and he wears like the sweatband wait he sounds so cool a sweatband he wears a sweatband and he's like really serious about volleyball oh my god wait i i like i need to know the length of his shorts i need to know if he's wearing a crop top i feel that

he's not wearing a crop top he's wearing like Like, sometimes he's wearing, like, a polo, but, like, an oversized polo. Like, nothing is fitting well. Everything is very, like, ill-fitted. I looked up Nixxiom, and that's not it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's spelled with... It's spelled N... Sorry. NXI. That's a V. And an... Oh, that's a V. Yeah, that's how they spell it. They're very into, like, weird acronyms and stuff. I actually don't know what NXIVM or NXIVM is an acronym for.

I think he just made it up and was like, that sounds cool. Now I have an image of him. Is it him and his volleyball gear? No, unfortunately, it's not. It's him and he looks like he's on. He's giving that guy, because his hair is longer, but part down the middle. He's giving me the guy from... What is that called? What is that movie called? Like, Office Space? Where, like, he's like, yeah, I'm going to need you to work the weekend. Yeah. So, yeah. He gives me that guy.

Yeah. I'm sending you this. Like, even this face he's making. Yeah. He's like, no, he's like, kind of not like that guy. I don't know. He's just a. Oh, God. This.

I love it so this is what i envisioned yeah this minus the shirt i thought the shirt was going to be like crappie for whatever reason but his hair his headband his short shorts yeah he's just the but look at this lady sitting next to him and her facial expression she's she's giving ick she's like i i honestly think that that is one of his victims.

That's why she's giving ick i i can't tell because and everything i've seen her face has been blurred but the white sweater white sweater right next yeah familiar anyway okay so i just needed to know what he looked like so dorky sashes yes kissing on the lips wolf volleyball -like enthusiast to the extreme. And then Keith Raniere was secretly orchestrating a sex slave ring, marketing it as a women's empower, like empowering.

What? Like a, sorry, women's empowerment group. Why can't I say anything? It's fine. What? I don't understand how, hey, I really think that you should join this women empowerment group that I have set up. Well, you'll find out how it is so fucked up. Oh, okay. And honestly, I mean, yes, it's fucked up. It's not the most fucked up thing he's done. It's what everyone focuses on, but there's more things. But there's so much. Okay. There's so much more.

So Keith Raniere was born in Brooklyn, August 26th, 1964. Okay. I'm redoing that. Keith Raniere. What? Keith Raniere was born in Brooklyn on August 26th, 1964. And I really don't care too much about his childhood. Okay. Because a lot of what we know about him comes from him, and I don't really trust what he says. Okay. Well, then it's probably not valid at all. It's probably what he wants us to think versus the fact. It's like a narrative that he's crafted.

Yeah. So he claims that his mom, Vera, was an alcoholic, and he had to stay up all night to take care of her. And this informed how he was, like, all about how women were these, like, women were strong and, like, need to be nurtured. And it showed his compassion and that he had this, like, blah, blah, blah. His dad, James, who was an ad exec, was like, yeah, she drank, but it, like, wasn't that big of a deal. Like, I don't think that she had a problem.

You don't think that your son was, like, supermanning and, like, being the one to, like, take care of her?

No. because she couldn't take care of herself he gives me like don draper vibes like mad men vibes and he's like an ad exec in new york so i'm like maybe he actually just really doesn't know what's going on with his family maybe he's just so not present that who knows yeah so just take it with salt yeah so we don't so we do know his parents divorced when he was eight but before that they noticed to they noticed he was like pretty smart so they had him tested and discovered that he was

a gifted student oh good for him and his dad says it's like he woke up one day and he was like i'm fucking jesus like he was like i'm so special oh and his dad says this that's just yeah no his dad was like he woke up and one day i was just like just i'm better than everybody else i'm smarter jesus like and that gives such like narcissistic personality disorder so oh side note now the hiccups as a teen or growing up not as a teen at like 12 he said

that he had read isaac asimov's foundation series and as an adult he based the teachings of nix nexium on those books books, just like Shoko Asahara based a lot of the teachings of Aum Shram Rikyo on the same book. There's a lot of parallels in this one. Yeah, I think, honestly, like, what...

People just like will read something and run. If you are into specifically Isaac Asimov's, I say specifically because I really do like Isaac Asimov, but his Foundation series and you're like, this is how, because I think if I can recall when I did the research for Om Shumrikyo, it's about this like guy who's so smart and knows the end of the world is coming and he's like trying to get everyone ready with like brain power, basically.

So that is like what it's based on so if there's someone who's just like spouting off foundation, series shit i feel like that is a huge red flag red flag alert alert and it's like a low-key red flag like like some people also are really into um like atlas shrugged like ayn rand that's another one i feel like a lot of like q anani cult people anyway so as a teen his mom vera also reportedly called her ex-husband in a panic because she would overhear Keith on the phone

with multiple girls being like, you're so special. You're the only one. I love you so much. And she was like, oh, my God, your son is a huge fucking liar. I don't know what to do. And he is fucking with multiple people's heads, like multiple women's heads. Yeah. She was like, he's a compulsive liar. What do I even do? How do we even navigate this? I honestly don't know what I would do. I know. If I heard J-Mo talking. I know. I'm like shocked that his parents are just like, oh boy, this kid.

That's when you know it's bad. That's when you know it's like... I mean... I feel like some things are like learned, some things you're a product of your environment. Sometimes you're just. I mean, it is the 60s. Growing up in the 60s is not usually like the most loving and doting of parenting. But no, if I overheard J-Mo telling multiple girls. Oh, do you know I'd jump on the phone? You can't do that anymore. I don't know.

You wouldn't even know. I wouldn't even know. Unless you read their texts, which I read Faye's texts.

Really? I haven't. a jmo doesn't have a phone i don't think i don't think i'm gonna get him a phone for like a long time yeah yeah what do you need a phone for yeah ipad well yeah she does on the ipad your iMessage oh no he doesn't have i mean i don't know he never he probably just doesn't know yeah he's just not yeah he just doesn't typically talk to people the other day unless that was fun oh and he was texting you uh-huh that's funny i said it smelled like farts yeah he

was i was like He just so badly wants to text somebody, so that's why. Here he is. It was me. Yeah. So in the mid-'80s, Keith's – oh, wait, no. Keith goes off to college, does a half-assed job, and for being such a gifted student – Super. For being a genius. His GPA was like 2.26, which I'm sure was disappointing to his parents. If GPAs are not whatever. No. I don't know that my parents would have straight up hunted me if I got below a 3.0. A 3.0 is like, you're grounded. Really? A 2.0?

2.29? You're dead to me. You're kicked out of this house. Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to handle that with the kids. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, it is college. He was a grown-ass adult. But I don't know. Even in college, I did get grounded while I was in college. Did you? You lie. I did. Your ass was in a whole other eight hours away. No, I was home for the summer and I got grounded. How do you get grounded while you're home for just a smidge?

That is so funny. I don't remember, but I remember Kendra and my friend Lindsay staged a protest. And they made shirts that said, free Jenna. Free Jenna!

Oh, my God. That makes me so happy. that is so funny so dumb okay so in the mid 80s keith starts working at amway just like good new goodness oh god which is an mlm that sells health products and blah blah blah blah so but he starts being like i'm so smart and the structure of this could be improved upon and i'm the one that think that could figure it out god so because probably he wasn't he had probably had He had people in his upline that he didn't want to pay.

So he's into improving the structure of Amway, but he's also getting very into the human potential movement. And, again, that's improving global conditions by improving upon yourself. Okay. And around this time, he's taking a community theater class in New York, and he meets 15-year-old Gina Melita. He's 24. And she's 15. And they start dating because she's young, and she thinks it's cool to date an older guy, but, like, that's, like, super creepy.

What is, like, okay. It's just so, it's not like you're 45 dating a 30-year-old. You know what I mean? like these kids are just they're still kids and they don't have the experience to be like this guy's a creep so he like takes her on dates to the arcade and like to get perky.

You're literally parenting you're okay and eventually she sleeps with him and she regrets it she was like I didn't like this and he was like okay cool cool I understand we can break up but maybe we just like keep having sex cause maybe it'll get better for you, oh my god and she was like fuck don't run yeah she was like you're a creep like i can't believe you would like i'm telling you i don't like this and you just want me to keep doing it and you're saying okay

we can take all the emotional things out and continue doing the one thing you don't like yeah so right off so there's a more fucked up piece to this that you'll learn about in part too but because it spans such a long period of time it's hard to kind of like keep it right chronological right so keith is feeling himself and he's got like some people that are like starting to surround him that are like you know what you could improve amway

and like they're gassing him up yeah they're like they're fluffing his ego and he's like you know what i should take take an IQ test.

So it is a at-home, un-timed test. It is not like the SATs. There's no like person that's like making sure you're not cheating. You could go home, maybe flip through some books, use a calculator or whatever. So he claims his score after all this, after he gets his test, is 178. Fuck you. That's so ridiculous. That's so high. Of course, it's self-proclaimed Yeah. So both Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking had scores of 160. So he's really feeling himself. He's like, I'm the smartest man ever.

And he's like, I can do better. So he takes another one and claims his score now is 260. And it lands him in the Australian Guinness Book of World Records as the smartest man in the world. Wait, they didn't even fact check it? They didn't even say, hey... So I could actually then be the smartest woman in the world. I think that's why it's the Australian Guinness book and not like the American. Yeah. I think. Maybe I can be the smartest woman in the Australian Guinness World Book of Records.

For this like one square. Yeah. This one square foot. I'm the smartest woman. Yeah, because I'm the only. It's just me. But it's actually, I found this quote by Stephen Hawking who once said, people who boast about their IQ are losers.

I love it so much. but i do think that keith really does believe that his iq is that high well he's probably one of those people like you say it you think it enough you say it to yourself enough you believe it yeah again narcissism yeah so keith used this clout to start a company called consumer byline or cbi consumer byline inc okay it was like amway but for like household supplies like Like, Costco, but you have to, like, order on a phone talking to somebody. Okay.

But the money-making, like, the real money-maker wasn't necessarily from hawking the products. It was the membership fees. So, like, kind of like Costco, you had a membership fee, and you paid, again, on the phone to somebody, I guess, like, through a catalog or something. I don't know. But it did really, really well. Okay. So, Tony Natale was brought into CBI by her husband, whose tanning bed business was struggling.

But he thought there was a lot of opportunity for growth in cbi so he's like oh tony let's get into it and she's like i don't really know so she goes to a presentation and she thinks that keith is kind of a blowhard and she finally goes up to him and she's like okay so like if you are the smartest guy in the world like why are you selling bulk toilet paper yeah why aren't you curing cancer or like doing something better. Applying your, yeah.

And he was like, I am changing the world. I'm making it a better place. Do you want to come? And she was like, okay. So within months, she's like their top salesperson. And eventually Keith gets his hooks into her. She takes her son, leaves her husband and moves to Clifton Park, New York where CBI was headquartered. Oh shit. it. Things slowly start going south, but she was drawn to CBI because there was a lot of women that worked there and it felt warm.

She was successful. Feeling successful feels great. Yeah. I get that. And she was like, this is like such a warm place. Like there's all these women. A lot of the women are bringing their like kids into work. Keith was. Feels very community, I bet. Yeah. Keith was even tutoring one woman's daughter in algebra. But she was like, oh, my God, that's so sweet. I wouldn't. Low key. He was not just. I was going to say I would never let him near my child. No, he was never.

He was definitely being yucky being really yucky with her and i think she was like 12 oh my god that is so sad yeah so despite this keith was manipulative and hostile and she confided in him his like her darkest secrets and he usually used them against her to like get some sort of result and at some point an expose comes out about cbi being a pyramid scheme and keith like loses his mind to the point where tony is like what the actual fuck i gotta get out of here yeah so she meets nancy salzman

and nancy tells her that she's the number two expert on neurolinguistic programming in the world not a therapist neuro it's like a languaging thing for like human potential i actually don't really know what it is i know it's controversial and i know it's not therapy okay those are the two things i don't know yeah but nancy starts having therapy sessions with tony as if she were despite not being a licensed therapist not being a therapist

or qualified in anyway call yourself a life coach then or you know i think that's what people do now yeah when there's also not qualified to yeah i mean there's some life coaches out there qualified relax but.

Yeah. So Tony tells her about Keith and she's like, what is wrong with him? And Nancy's like, sweetie, he is a sociopath like that. Like that. He's a sociopath. Okay. I like it. And so, but then the next few sessions, she starts to change her tune and she's like, I don't think you know where his heart is. I think he's just so smart. It's hard for him to like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

She's giving this man a benefit of the doubt. Uh-huh. So apparently Nancy had went to Keith and told him about what Tony was saying about him and books him his own sessions so that because he's like an invasion or like not invasion of privacy but yeah it is a betrayal absolutely betrayal so in turn nancy starts gaslighting tony into believing that keith is like this saint that can do no wrong and that she's just overreacting oh that is so sad it's like the person that you feel like

you can trust you You literally are going to them for guidance and quote therapy and they're essentially manipulating you. Yeah. So when Tony finally breaks up with him, he writes her a letter that includes photograph of Milton's Paradise Lost and like noted parts where it's her breaking up with him was like Lucifer rebelling against God. And he was like, these are the same.

This is the they're not they're definitely they're definitely not and he harassed her for years with lawsuits and he would have his followers break into her house and steal her mail weird like get over yourself he can't he's too smart too he's too narcissistic so mancy who is sleeping with keith i was just gonna say oh my god could you imagine talking to one of your quote-unquote patients and this patient is like this guy kind of sucks and i

don't know how i feel about him blah blah she's intrigued enough to like reach out to him and then start dating him yeah i'm get the fuck out of here what her mental state was there not good she hold on i gotta pick up so.

Now, Nancy and Keith sleeping together. They're in cahoots and they start cooking up a new business. So using the MLM model of CBI, they created Executive Success Programs or ESP is what they called it. They actually tried to call it Raniere Success Programs. But because when CBI went down, there was all of that talk about it being a pyramid scheme, no one would touch it. So they changed it to executive success programs.

So they start holding these self-improvement seminars and promoting their technology and recruiting their friends and families to join. You know who I think this is what pisses me off? You know who uses technology is Guru Jagat. Really? Remember, she would be like, I'm just telling you how to use this technology. Remember, she would – or maybe it was in a video. Maybe I posted it. I honestly, I'm such an etch-a-sketch. I feel like I don't retain much.

Guru Jagat used to use that, too. Totally gross. Anyway, so for every recruitment or sales goal you made, you move up in the company, right? And so this is how you get those sashes. Spirals like a pyramid. Right? So he used the martial arts belt system, but instead it was like the sashes. You would need four stripes to move up to the next color. And to move up to the next color, it was like millions of dollars in sales.

That's so crazy. That is so crazy. Keith always wore a white sash because he was the color erythro. I used to say he's the color of God. Which presented as white. Mm-hmm. So ranking was super important in the group. Not only did it signify a way to mark your own progress, but it determined whose hand goes on top when you shake hands. The lower ranks had to bow to the higher ranks. There's like an etiquette that comes along. There was like an etiquette that came along with it.

And then it gave the new recruits like something to strive for. Like they were like, I guess I'll move up. Yeah. So Nancy and Keith also start creating this reverence around themselves. So Nancy was to be referred to as the proctor and Keith was to be referred to as Vanguard, which happened to be the name of a video game he played. I don't know. But the core teaching of Keith and Nancy was that there were two types of people.

There was parasites, people who leech off others. Just straight up reducing humans to parasites. And then there's producers. producers, the people that are like successful self-starters. And it was simple. It was just like, don't be a parasite. Be a producer. Unless you're Keith, who was mooching off all these other people. He is a solid parasite in plain sight. Yeah.

And it costs a lot of money to figure out how to do that. So ESP, though, blows up because it doesn't really seem like. It's like self-improvement, but it's like the early, it's like the late 90s, early 2000s. So people aren't really into that like hippy-dippy, like spirituality. Right. This is like spirituality disguised as self-improvement, like Tony Robbins or like making more money by being better with yourself. Right. And more in tune with yourself.

So it's gaining traction. Nancy recruits her daughters, Melissa and Lauren, into the company. Lauren starts having sex with Keith. Oh, my God! Yeah. And he promises her they're having sex for a few years. And he's like, if you just keep doing what I say, I'll give you a baby. And they continue 17 years. She's strung along for a baby. Wait, what? Nancy's daughter, Lauren, strung along for a baby for 17 years? Yeah. Does Lauren at some point tell Nancy, hey, I'm humping your dude?

I think that Nancy figures it out later. Oh, my God. I'm not waiting. Okay. Yeah. But Lauren does say, and this is, like, in the documentary that I watched, is that Nancy said that when Lauren and Keith first started, like, to get together, Keith wanted to do it all over Nancy's house.

So he'd be like, let's go to your mom's house. and like would they let's have sex on the kitchen counter let's have sex in her closet her kitchen like whatever oh my god that says so much about him that that alone like yeah oh my god so gross so yeah like not a room in your house that we haven't boned down in betrayed you in yeah gross So Nancy also recruits her friend, 40-year-old Barbara Boucher, who was really going through it at the time with a nasty divorce,

but was very successful and very rich. So Keith convinces her to invest her life savings in the program and then also starts sleeping with her. Okay. What is it about this guy's magic dick that everybody is like, let me – Well, I think that – I keep wondering this. I think that it's because he's recruited these people based on I'm the smartest man in the world. Yeah. And he gives a lot of attention to, like, I think he just knows how to manipulate women. He gives you all your attention.

He love bombs you, tells you you're great. And then a lot of these women were like, he's the smartest man in the world. And he saw something in me. So vulnerable. Because he's not good looking. It sure ain't the looks. No. It's how he's making them feel. Yeah. And you see that. I wish that he couldn't do that. And they think he's so evolved. Yeah. On another level. Yeah. So I think that it's very much like his position and his power is what... The power... Sucks them in. Yeah. So...

Yeah, it seems to be there was this core of women that surrounded him. Most of them were sleeping with him. And the women are what turned this, like, machine into, like, such a beast that it becomes. Because they're doing all the work. All the work. He's just organizing. Yeah, he's just kind of, like, organizing and, like, fluffing them up and then pushing them to work harder.

And so, I don't know, this whole thing starts, like, revolving around him and his interests. So they start holding these week-long summer camps. They start playing volleyball like every night from like 10 or 11 p.m. Until like the early hours of the morning. Can I tell you? And it was a whole ass thing though because he was telling them that he doesn't need sleep because the more involved you are, you don't need sleep, which is like red flag 101.

And so they're playing volleyball, but they're either all there watching and like socializing and then he's like lecturing in between.

Between but he was getting like the rock star treatment you know with his like dumb ass headband and his knee pad yeah but like you see him he's like this small little guy like i don't know i don't know if you've ever seen like college volleyball or like professional volleyball these that's not the kind of volleyball no no but he's acting you guys look him the first picture you'll see yeah no not the first maybe the second you would think that he is like a serious athlete Yeah.

He's just so into it. Yeah. All the gear. Yeah. All the things. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know why it bothers me, the volleyball thing so much. It's so funny because I'm like, in the other world, I'm like, yeah, get your fitness on. Do what you love. Like, if it makes you feel good. But him, I'm like, no. Yeah. I think also, like, I was very, like, I think it gives me PTSD from, like, high school having to go watch basketball games and being like,

this is the fucking worst. Yeah. See, I didn't ever do that. It was the worst. Anyway. Anyway, so by 2002, ESP was expanding its base and had a pretty small and loyal following in Mexico amongst really powerful, like, Mexican politicians. Oh, wow. One girl, Daniela, who we don't know anything else other than her name. Yeah. I tried, actually, I wrote this without her name because I was like, she was a minor. Oh, I see. But her name as Daniella was used in the trial.

So I was like, well, because we come back to her a lot. So it's hard to be like, remember that one girl? So Daniella. That girl who we will not name. Yeah. Daniella was 16 at the time and was, just had gotten into this like really prestigious international like boarding school. So as a gift, her parents gave her a series of classes to NXIVM or to ESP at the time. And she was super smart. She wanted to go to Harvard. She wanted to go to medical school and do preventative medicine.

And she was like really geeky and kind of naive. And she refers to like her family, like her family life as being like so quaint that people would make fun of her and they would call them the Flanders, like from The Simpsons.

Because they were so like just like hearty-dirty neighbor like they were just like like a whole little family yeah but her parents were like really into self-improvement so they got her what a crazy gift to give like it's not a gift that i'm thinking of getting my kids for their present oh fuck no so at this course she goes and she's taught that there was a mathematical equation to predict the end of the world if people don't start using esp technology and it was like 10 or 15 years away.

And so she's a teenager and she's like, oh, fuck, I'm going to take a sabbatical from high school and try to help because if I'm learning this, then it can only better the world. Yeah. I'm going to do this for the greater good. Yeah. And so she gets an enthusiastic approval from her parents and goes to live in Albany, New York and work with ESP. So she's thinking, I'm going to go do all this really great work. Yeah. It also didn't help that Keith was like, don't go to school. I'll teach you.

Oh, God. And her parents are thinking... Isolate yourself so only I can control you. Yeah, the smartest man in the world is going to tutor my daughter. They're like... Of course. Incredible. Of course. What an opportunity. So they put her like with an accountant for like a year. She just is like an accountant, just like doing stuff here and there. And that year she could have been in school. Cool. Yeah. And she's like, you know what? Like, this isn't what I came here for.

I wasn't here to like do data entry. So like, I want to go home. And then he starts giving her more attention.

And but he's like, you know what? I have to wait. we have to wait until you're 18 to start a sexual relationship because she starts like really liking it and like being in love with him and he's like we have to wait till you're 18 wait till you're 18 so finally she like they like finally have sex and she's like hooked on him and she's like oh my gosh we're like this is it this is like i'm this is the beginning to the rest of our lives.

Together and so but then she starts having a crush on this other boy who's like more age appropriate and she and him kiss and she tells keith because she's like he's my best friend i didn't know like what the like what was the normal relationship and what wasn't but so i told him about it i'm just being honest uh-huh and he loses his shit oh he claims that when he has sex with someone they have a magical connection and when they betray it it causes him physical pain oh my god he takes away

her phone and her passport all of her credit cards all technology all books and locks her in a room oh my god for two years you have to be fucking lying two years what were her parents her parents they were there's like audio recordings of him like basically like this is what's best for her she needs to learn that like you know this is otherwise she's gonna end up in jail like this is what's best for her you know that i would literally climb through his entire

body i swear to god if somebody were to take one of my children all things away from them and lock them in a room for fucking two years yeah he would be dead yeah he would be like i I question. Like, question everything, you guys. Like, it is never okay. I feel like the parents should have been like, you know, easier is that? I mean, I'm not there. Yeah. And as a parent, I'm like, you are not doing that to my child, my incredible child.

Fuck that. Yeah. Even if my child was mediocre. I don't know. I'm just kidding. You cannot do this to my mediocre child. To my mediocre child. My mediocre at best offspring. You cannot. So Lauren Salzman would often go to check on her and she would beg her to let her out and she would just leave her there. One time she cut her hair because she had this like really long hair because that's how Keith liked it.

And then Lauren was like, you're going to have to stay in here until your hair grows back to where it was. No. And so finally she just was like, fuck this. Because apparently the door was never locked, but she had nowhere to go. No money, like, like no way to get a hold of anybody.

Her parents were in with Keith. it was she's like where would i have gone so finally she's just like fuck this so then she leaves and goes to a volleyball game to confront keith and yes she does hides from her he like is pushing people and like running away from her trying to hide what a fucking coward yeah she's escorted to the border with 70 and just left no id no passport no nothing oh my god the border like canada the u.s mexico border oh i thought they were in

new york they are he went down to all the way down you fucking lie i mean i guess it's farther but quite a drive quite a drive yeah.

Apparently 70 bucks he had also been having a sexual relationship with both of her sisters one was only 15 at the time how did her sisters get involved the parents just shipped them all off they thought that this was like basically like the place where they were going to learn the most that is the saddest fucking thing so they think that they're doing what's best for their kids that they're being manipulated by this piece of shit and the 15 year olds,

keith would try to she would try to help him find virgins on tinder. That was, like, one of her, like, things. He was like, help me find virgins. He's like, make me stronger. Find me virgins. Yeah. That is so fucking disgusting. It's so gross. That is so gross. That is so, like, I can't imagine a world where that makes sense. No. It's disgusting. So while all of this shit is going on, Sarah and Claire Bronfman were recruited to ESP.

And they were the heiresses of Seagram's Liquor, and their dad was worth $2.6 billion. So they had insane trust funds. Oh, my God. What did he do with them? So Sarah was like a free-spirited traveling party girl. Claire was more reserved and like cold, and she was like, I like horses more than I like people. I hate people. So Claire falls for Keith almost immediately and sets him up with her father. So now ESP has a billionaire in their path. A direct line. Yeah.

So money is flooding in. But with high earnings come high taxes. So Ranieri and co. Tried to figure out how to avoid paying taxes. Paying taxes on it. Which ends up biting them in the ass later. So he sets up Nexium as an umbrella corporation to house ESP and any other like side businesses they have for their technology. Technology. And by doing so, he makes sure on paper that he's not a direct owner of any business, but he can live off the income of the company. Okay. Damn. Same year.

Forbes was interviewing members and the Bronfman sisters, and everyone expected this, like, great publicity, but it ends up being a massacre. Oh, God! Sarah gets super pissed because the article overshadows her with her sister Sarah. So then she goes to her dad and is like, oh, my God, I'm so mad at them, and Keith borrowed $2 million from me, and I'm just— And her dad is like, I'm sorry, what? Keith did what? And then he's like, fuck no, this is a cult. And she cuts him off.

She's like, oh, fuck, what did I do? So Keith is like super pissed at Claire and he starts to give her the cold shoulder. So she's so desperate to get back in his good graces that she and her sister both turn over their estate management to Barbara Boucher. Are you fucking kidding me? Who does a terrible job managing their assets and loses them about $24 million in donations. Remodeling Nancy Salston's house. You puke. Building a new office in Albany

and for some reason building a horse stable for NXIVM. Because she loves horses. No, it wasn't for her, though. Oh, my God. It was for NXIVM. What? Yeah. Claire also starts underwriting all of Keith's legal intimidation tactics. So basically, she's paying for lawyers so he can intimidate journalists, defectors, on anyone he deems a threat, which is like not cheap.

Right, right, right. Because you go in knowing you're going to lose. It's like hush money, essentially. Yeah. Like he's trying to get ahead of it. Yeah. And so a few years later in 2005, he tells his sisters he had devised a mathematical equation to make a fortune in the commodities trade and ends up losing them $65 million. Are you fucking kidding me? And then they were like, why'd you lose all that money? And he was like, oh, your dad, your dad sabotaged the markets because he was mad at me.

So this is on your dad. dad sorry not sorry yeah just walking away 65 million dollars 65 million dollars that is insane yeah how does one person have that much access to like that much money without having anything to do with earning it you know what i mean like yeah i don't know but shit was opportunity how much How much money he had access to. So, soon after that, filmmaker Mark Vicente joins the group in 2005, and he's just off his documentary film, What the Bleep Do We Know?, which...

I saw it in the theaters. No! I did. I saw it in an actual fucking theater. You did see that in the theaters. I know. It was so good. It was good. No, I can't. I actually don't remember anything of what it's about, but I do remember it. Like, going to see it. Seeing it in a theater. And I remember the exact, like, I think it was, like, at the Red Vic Theater in San Francisco. So it was, like, a very, like, kind of grimy place. Anyway. It was really big and...

In film school circles. I was going to say, it's like in the indie world, I suppose. Yeah, I guess it's like it was basically just like the shit that ESP is talking about. But it's like Marlee Matlin doing it, which she's just cute and charming. Anyway, so Mark comes and brings this new ego boost. Keith wants him to record everything and to work with them to make films about his message and to help him create propaganda in a way.

And Mark is all about it. And he wants improvements because he wants to contribute to the cause. And he becomes the highest ranking male member besides Keith and brings in hundreds of people, including Sarah Edmondson. Sarah was an actress who was just not feeling the direction in her life. And she was very competitive by nature. And so even though she thought NXIVM was a little silly, god damn, she was going to get the highest. She was going to be the best at it.

She was like, it was like the sashes. She was like, I need. She's like, these are dorky. But god damn, I want to be the dorkiest. Yeah, I'm going to be dorky. So she brings in the most students out of anyone, and her whole life is NXIVM. She meets her husband, Nippy, in the organization. They have a baby. They're like this little NXIVM family.

A little after Mark and Sarah join, Keith starts Jeunesse, a women's empowerment group aimed to use their technology to help women find their place in the world. First red flag, started by a man. Second red flag, they taught that women by nature were weak, flaky, and needy. What? And this was something that we needed to accept. In order to change it. Yeah. What? Yeah. Okay. Sarah brought in Smallville actress Kristen Krug.

Do you remember her? Oh my God. Yeah. I can't see her, but I know the name. She's really, really cute. Yeah. She did classes in intensives and seemed to really gel with the program. And she brought her co-star, Allison Mack. Who? Go on. Was in Camp Nowhere when she was younger with non-cult leader Andrew Keegan. It's all coming full circle. It's all full circle. Non-cult leader. So good. She had just won a Teen Choice Award and was like hot shit in the moment.

I don't remember this. I was too old. I was too old to be watching Teen Choice anything. Yeah. But I guess this is an era of CW that I was not privy to because I was just like a little too old. Basically, when it became CW is when I bailed out. Yeah. Allison Mack goes to Jeunesse, like a Jeunesse event, and Keith sends Nancy and the Bronfmans to love bomb her. And they offer to fly her on the Bronfmans' private plane to Albany to see what is going on there.

Uh-huh. And she's probably like, sorry, Private Jess? Like, jet? Yes. Yeah, sure. Albany? I don't know. JKJ. Private jet. Private jet. Private jet. That's right. Yeah.

So she gets hooked hard. and it doesn't hurt that there are other actresses going through the same shit there's do you know grace park is no she's on she was on hawaii 50 but she used to be on battlestar galactica along with this other actress nikki klein kristin kruk and then i think there's a bunch of like kind of lower like d-level actors okay and i think the actors are kind of like ripe for the picking because they're

like they're emotional they can immerse themselves in feelings they have the The ability to kind of create this world around them, like a fictional world around them. And make it feel real. To make it feel real. Right. And so I think that they're like kind of the perfect victim for this. Damn. And they're also amazing salespeople because they're young and beautiful. They're good teachers and coaches because they can easily recite information with like conviction. Uh-huh.

So they were kind of the perfect people. Even though they are not like huge, huge, huge actors and actresses. Even a little bit. They're still popular enough to be like, oh my God, this is blah, blah, blah. So rumor has it that Allison Mack tried to recruit. Beverly Mitchell from 7th Heaven. Remember the middle sister? Yes. Uh-huh. Which makes sense. What makes less sense, Kelly Clarkson. She tried to recruit Kelly Clarkson. Oh, okay. Like, okay.

I feel like that's not who you want. She would blow you up so quick, smell the bullshit, and be like, Abso-fucking-lutely-not. She also tried to recruit Emma Watson. What? I was like, what fucking world do you think that you can even be in the same room as Emma? Right. Excuse. Sorry. No. Anyway. way. Cute. My notes say, OMG, how sad she thought she could get.

Bless her little heart. So in 2008, nine women left the organization after voicing concerns about key sexual exploitation of female students and for being super irresponsible with money. It hadn't gone unnoticed that a girl was locked in a room for two years, but for some reason that wasn't... Wasn't like the... That wasn't the tip of the iceberg. They just were like, you know what? I think it's the money thing. Jesus Christ. Maybe the sex thing, but mostly the money thing.

But forget this girl who's just been locked up against her will, and that's fucking wild. Yeah. So don't know why all of a sudden it was too much, but they decide to up and leave. Keith, of course, flies into a baby rage. But the Brofmans are like, well, okay, we'll make it better.

We got you a meeting with the Dalai Lama. and he's like oh my god i'm so i'm there i'm there i'm like made it with the dalai lama which this isn't the dalai lama it must not be that hard because now this is like how many people have we talked about already who have met with the met with the dalai lama and it's actually really interesting so their talk is about compassionate ethics and difficult times but it's really funny because

like the dalai lama i think is skeptical he gives this look that like Like, I've only ever seen my grandpa give. Uh-oh. Where it's like a, hmm. Like. And he has, he does mention, you know, I've been burned before by people with this accusation. Like, I think that he knows. He's like, I can smell your bullshit. It's a little, little foochie. Yeah. So, apparently, Sarah Bronfman fucked the Dalai Lama's gatekeeper to get the meaning. And he was a monk who had taken. Oh, my God.

He was a monk who had taken a vow of solvency. see so he was replacement it all came to light oh my god yeah what the fuckage that's crazy yeah so 2010 brought bonnie ps i think is how her how you say her last name she was also an actress and she was best known for playing a young brew lars in the star wars prequels so she ends up getting married to mark vicente and despite some personal issues she had with like members like alice and mac she was open and willing to try to

like make this her life okay so fast forward to 2016. Sarah Edmondson is invited by Lauren Salzman to an exclusive invite-only women's group. And she's like, how dedicated are you to personal growth? And Sarah Edmondson is like, well, like, obviously I'm 100%. Incredibly dedicated. She's like, prove it. And so she says, I have this private group. I can't tell you anything about it until you provide collateral. And she's like, what do you mean collateral? Like, can't even tell you about

it. She's like, social media passwords, nude photos, shameful secrets you don't want to get out, anything that is going to make sure that you're held to your word, that you won't spill the secret.

And so Sarah thinks it's weird, but Lauren's like, oh, my God, it's, like, not a big deal. We could just, like, make a video of you talking shit about people, like, your parents or your husband or whatever, and, like, that'll be it. And she's like, I mean, okay. And she's like, the secrecy of it was, like, kind of fun and kind of funny. And every time she'd feel weird about it, Lauren would be like, it's not like I'm going to be like, you have to call me master or whatever.

So she thinks it's joking and she thinks she's joking. But also Lauren was the godmother of her son and she was her best friend. She initiated her wedding. She's like, I trust her. What? So the group, Lauren explains, is called Dominus Obsequius Sororium or DOS. Yes. It really means dominant over submissive. And that Latin is just gibberish. Like it's not even like it doesn't even correlate to what whatever.

So it was a top secret group where women would work on discipline and she had to agree to call Lauren, her master, and ask permission. She in fact did. Everything via text. And at first she thought it was funny and like silly and she was like, but then it started to get more uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable so lauren starts demanding more collateral to keep the secret up like even to her husband she's like i couldn't she couldn't even tell her husband nippy so then lauren then invites sarah out to albany for an initiation and sarah's like okay well i have to go she's my master and like this is for some reason so they're blindfolded and taken to a secret location which sarah said she peeked and she was like this is allison mac's house but allison mac was not author and they're

led into a room where they're told to strip down to their underwear and they're like we're all going to get matching tattoos of like little design and the design looked like a mountain and like an ocean and it was supposed to represent the four elements here wait I'm gonna pull it up so I can show you oh my god I just don't get the whole blind loyalty piece of Like, I need I need all the details up front before I go in.

But if it's like my best friend, my, you know, like, I'm like, of course I trust you. Okay, so like, here's like a mountain with a mountaintop. Did they burn it into them? Yeah. Spoiler alert. My God. You're from the online range. Okay. So she's like, we're going to do this. And she's like, they gaslight her into being like, this is ridiculous. So then a woman comes out with a cauterizing pen. And she's like, we're going to brand it. And they have to say,

will you please brand me? And she's like freaking out. And she was like, why? And she's like, what am I going to tell my husband? And she's like, this isn't about your husband. This is about you and your own work. And your own work. Are you committed to self, you know, da, da, da, da, da. Yeah. And so she finally is like, I'll do it because at a certain point she's like, OK, well, I do it and they release my collateral. And then, yeah, she's essentially she's blackmailing.

And so, yeah, so it's essentially and it's not like I think that a lot of a lot of this like argument is about consent. Right there because she says, yes, we please. Yeah. They have to say, yes, we please brand me master or whatever. It's not informed consent because they didn't go in. And they didn't go in knowing that this was a part of that if you're being black, if you're being strong armed into it. No, absolutely not.

Consent if you're like you have to give the collateral before you know what this is all about. No, it's literally not. They're forcing somebody into doing something without giving them any of the details. Yeah. It's not consent. No, it's not. So days after getting it, Sarah's freaking out because she's like, how am I going to hide this brand? because it was, like, right on her hip, like, right near her vagina. And she's like, how am I going to hide this from my husband? And then she notices.

Are there little initials or something? It looks like an A and an M. And so she's like, did I just get Allison Mack's tattoo, like, initials branded on me? What the fuck? So then she points it out to her friend because she's like, hey, I'm going to send you something and tell me what you see. And she says, I see a K and an R. So it was a combo of both Allison Mack and Keith Raniere's initials that they made into a little design that they branded on them. Oh my God. Mm-hmm. At this point.

Disgust. Bonnie P.S. is over NXIVM. Shit isn't adding up. Allison Mack, who she doesn't really love, but she's starting to notice this change in Allison that she's, like, losing a lot of weight.

And she looks, like, sickly and kind of gray. and she's like dude are you okay and she's like yeah yeah it's fine keith it's just like monitoring my caloric intake and so that's why i'm a little bit yeah so she's like so bonnie was like wait this doesn't make sense why would he be doing that and so she like googles it and the first thing that pops up is high control group and she's like looking at all of the symptom like all the markers of a high control group and she's like oh she's

working hard for no pay She's getting very little sleep. Food is being monitored. And, like, everything is, like, talked about. Right. So she's, like, she leaves. And Mark Vicente, her husband, is completely blindsided because she's, like, I can't even tell him about it because he's so far in. He's not going to understand.

So he is, like, what the fuck? But then he also tries to gaslight her that she's just, like, not seeing the good in it. So and, like, come back, come back. And she's, like, no, no, no, no. No. So then he starts asking questions because everyone is like, what's up with Bonnie? And so he's starting to ask questions because she doesn't even tell him at first. And then he finds out about DOS and he goes to Keith and he's like, hey, I'm hearing these things.

And he's like, he's like, no, no, no. You know, I think a lot of people just want to like paint me in a bad light. But like, don't listen to that. He's like, what I really would hope is that you come out for maybe three weeks and spend a lot of time with me. And like, as things come up and I have a response, I can give you a response to him. And then Mark was like, the fuck? Yeah. You want his answers?

Spend time with me over the next three weeks. And maybe if they come up, I'll give them to you. Yeah. He's like, that's not that sounds like you're just going to talk me like get me back in. Right. So Mark leaves. Good. Like, fuck that. Good. And Sarah Edmondson is told Mark has left and that she needs to bring him back in because she's like one of his best friends. He's the one that brought her in. So she calls him and she's like, yeah, why are you leaving?

And he's like did someone call you tell you to tell you to convince me otherwise she was like yeah because they're not lying he's and so don't insult me yeah and he's like oh the phone call is like so chilling because mark records everything he records his house he's got like b-roll of so many things so the conversation he's like he's like sarah do you know about this group and she was like.

Silence and then she's like i don't want to get in trouble so can you not record this and he's like i fucking record everything now yeah and then he's like okay okay i'll call you back and so apparently have this this conversation where she tells him about everything and he's like that's fucked up and it reaffirms in her she's like it is i thought it was fucked up but they were telling me that i was fucked up for not for thinking that and so my god like she's like okay hey, I'm leaving too.

And she takes with her all, every single document she can so that she can burn the whole thing fucking down. Fuck yeah, she did.

Oh my God. And that is the end of part one. I was going to say, this feels like a very good play. It was like the ultimate cliffhanger. Cliffhanger. Cliffhanger alert. Should have trigger warning, cliffhanger. Oh my God. I'm loving this. You should watch the documentary. I need to know that it gets burned down to the ground, but I don't know. Oh, it does. It does. I wish I had something enlightening to say. I really have to pee,

though. Yeah. Before we start number two, what should we call this one? Burn it down, Sarah. Burn it down. Burn it down, Sarah. Burn it down, Sarah. Fuck yeah. Burn it down, Sarah. Burn it down, Sarah. Okay. I gotta pee. Okay. Bye. Music.